THE GREAT LONG REST DEBATE OF 2024 - One Piece D&D Marines Clip
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- One Piece Dnd: Marines is the second One Piece related Dungeons and Dragons campaign livestreamed by Rustage. First airing in June 2023. Set 10 years after the events of the original campaign, the world has sunk deeper into chaos arising from the Great Pirate era. Fishman-Human relations are at an all time low, Ragnar is beginning his relentless campaign of violence throughout the world, and Garp's grandson can no longer swim after eating a really stupid devil fruit. Meanwhile, four seaman recruits aim to climb the ranks to become naval officers. They are:
"Damian", a human artificer played by Noble/Lostpause. Not the moral compass of the group
"Kai", a human ranger played by Tekking101
"Yokan", a long-arm monk played by 2Spooky
"Bradley", a fishman rogue played by Briggs. Has black hair
Can Ragnar be stopped? Will these goons for the oppressive global regime headed by slave-owners be able to rise to admiral? Where is everyone from the original campaign? Catch the bi-weekly streams to find out!
As always, Kaeruu will be doing art for the series. (taken from the wiki)
Rustage2: @rustagetwo
LostPause/Damian: @LostPause
Tekking101/Kai: @Tekking101
2Spooky/Yokan: @2Spookster
Briggs/Bradley: @BriggsADA
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This clip was a submission by @slimeknight6726 If you'd like to submit something, just drop it in the comments below and I'll get to it ASAP! :)
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From Episode 23 • ONE PIECE D&D: MARINES... at 1:25:00
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#rustage #briggs #2spooky #onepiecedndmarines #rustage2 #onepiecednd #dnd #onepiece #tekking101 #lostpause
To be fair even one piece had little rest spots in the middle of major arcs with lots of danger like in impel down or punk hazard.
To this day, i really don't know what Rustage was expecting from trying to convince them to not long rest. Like, there's no way they would have made it out alive if they didn't long rest
Exaclty , i guees Rustage wanted tpk then or he don't think what to do right now
I theorize he was going to have them defeated but not killed and sold off as slaves or something, and they would have to fight their way out…maybe
It was simply to not set a precedent. They were in a dungeon, under normal circumstances they couldn't have long rested. Also Tavrock was pretty easy to defeat and I guess that if they went straight in, Tavrock wouldn't have had the time to regroup his crewmates and organize the tournament so it would've been probably just him and the scorpion dude to fight against, so I guess that he believed they could have defeated Tavrock just as they were. Tavrock wouldn't even had have the time to get to Mako and Anchor Arms
@@kapitansus7591i don't really think so, most likely it was just a classic dnd issue of the players couldn't long rest because it wouldn't make sense in the story and ruin the tension but they olso couldn't continue through the dungeon because they would die. What happened in the end was probably the best scenario.
@@kazutrash i could see that happening as a backup plan but the monster slam fights makes me think otherwise. I don't know if Rustage would design a bunch of fights just for the players to lose.
My take away here is if Rustage want to avoid this kind of debate in the future he need to re-design these kind of encounter where they don't burn through all of their slots and hp in the first few fights. I notice that this happened at least 2 times in Pirate campaign (with Rain's cult and Blueblood respectedly).
Of course he's right in not wanting the party to just long rest for 8 hours in the middle of a dungeon, for that can just kill the tension and stakes, and can leads to more negative scenarios in the stories, but they can't possibly ran through the dungeon without getting wrecked.
The players also brute forced every single situation and chose combat first, this is the natural conclusion. Look at how they even handled the library lol half of them were trying to fight their way out of that puzzle
@@EvyKing oh yeah that is definitely a factor too. The parry really need better planning than just fighting everything they see moving. In this regard I actually think the Otherworldly Brewery got them beat by having actual planning before every big encounter.
They really learn the lesson fast tho, consider they dodge the fishmen trio entirely immediately after the long rest.
@@PhuNguyen-ph6lx Yea rustage himself mentioned he'd offered different alternatives to the players as they go but they decide to brute force it all lol
For my two cents, Imma just copy what I said on the original video:
My view on the Long Rest situation is basically this: Rustage sees the entire area as a dungeon, but he actually designed it as if it were a kingdom.
There’s long passageways with some hidden traps, sure, but rather than treasure rooms and enemy encounters, every door is its own self-contained city that, at best, very loosely communicates with the overarching police force on occaison. The Final Boss didn't even know we had entered the "dungeon" until he (very luckily) called to check in on Cerberus right after the party killed it and before they left. Had he happened to call a few minutes earlier or later, it could have genuinely been hours before he knew something was up. Then, when he did know about it, he didn’t send an alert to look out for them, no descriptors, no warnings, not even a "if you get any unusual customers, let me know" to the most popular rest stop in the labyrinth.
This implies one of two things: either he doesn’t care about the party, or he and his crew have great trouble regularly navigating the labryinth or even sending basic messages through. Plus, his crew mostly rules over their own specific little areas, and are free to go wherever they want and do as they please. Greyll apparently spends all of her time outside the "dungeon" entirely. There's an entire town here, with its own patrol, alert system, businesses, economy, and job system, seperate entirely from the Myth Pirates that they live under the banner of. And that is entirely separate from the restaurant, and that is entirety seperate from the library, and it's implied there are many other places like these scattered throughout the labyrinth.
No traditional enemies, no regular foes, no stalkers, regular stops for food, drink, and fun, recruitable party members, nothing about this area whatsoever says "dungeon." It's a kingdom, with a unique and interesting twist. And even if it’s an enemy kingdom, I can’t imagine a scenario where it would be impossible for a party to long rest whilst exploring one. Especially as the point of long resting in dungeons being bad isn’t because the evil Lich is hunting them down or whatever, it's that there are traps and monsters everywhere. In dungeons where that isn’t a constant worry, safe spaces are usually implemented even in modules. There are places to long rest in the Amber Temple. If you’re in a safe situation, there’s no reason it should automatically be illegal.
And we know for a fact that either the Myth Pirates do not care that the party is killing them, or they are very, very bad at navigating this place. It's fair.
And more than fair once the contingencies come in. Let's walk through this, once. After all of their prep, in order for the party to be discovered, the following MUST happen:
1. Someone must be aware the Greyll is in the town, and not where she is 90% of the time, outside.
2. Someone must register her leaving, and understand that this is not her going back to her favorite spot or to get something to eat, but rather because she knew where the intruders were and was going to fight them.
3. This same someone must wait an appropriate amount of time to be concerned about Greyll, which would likely be at least an hour, especially with the level of confidence in Greyll even Heather had.
4. This person must then use the (already established as terrible) communications network to check around the labyrinth and make sure she wasn’t hanging around somewhere else.
5. Finally, at long last, a team of search parties can be organized.
6. One of these parties must explore the town.
7. That same party must decide to explore the derelict, abandoned hospital, despite there being no reasonable explanation for why the intruders would specifically be there.
8. This same party would then encounter the sounds of the wailing ghosts, additional lighting, and other ambience that was set up by the intruders to make this area extremely unappealing. This party must decide to explore it anyway.
9. After entering the least-reasonable and least-comfortable place in the city, the party must spend an extended amount of time there, exploring every area and inspecting every room.
10. When the party reaches the location near the room the intruders are in, they would hear the recorded ghost crying in the area. This indicates that there cannot possibly be anyone near this specific area of the hospital, or else the ghost would have been "set off" and either be dead or screaming. The party must decide to ignore this and investigate this specific area anyway.
11. The party must find the false wall, choose to feel it up for some inexplicable reason, and discover that there is an invisible door here.
12. Upon opening the door, the intruder's traps, tricks, and alerts subtly give them enough time to leave the room through a hidden window so the party can investigate the room, conclude that nobody is here, and leave. To be found, something here has to somehow go wrong.
13. Even if ALL of that is managed, all in a row, it MUST be accomplished within eight hours, whilst the search party has no clue whatsoever that they are on a time limit.
I understand not wanting to ruin the game by allowing long rests in dungeons, but, man, at this point, not allowing one here almost feels like railroading.
I respect the decision, but I wanted to share my thoughts, especially with so many other commenters claiming that Rustage was being overly generous.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
Incredibly risky maneuver with nothing short of a miraculous outcome. regrettably I'd postulate that leaving Anchor Arms isolated might've been what made this go so well. Tavrock hyper-fixated on trying to torture information out of AA, neglecting to beef up his patrols in the wake of Greyl's disappearance, leaving the Basilisk all alone when he stumbled upon them(props to Raj for cutting off the Basilisk's communications).
Anchor Arms paid the price for this decision the most, but I'd say it was a crucial one in turning this suicide mission into a spectacular success.
Out of Character real quick, this was such a stressful moment to witness live lol
I hope Rustage learned from this debate and will take steps not to have it happen ever again in the future. Whether it be like hit die/spell slot restoring items or hide-y holes under the radar or just Good Samaritans willing to offer sanctuary or something.
I kinda disagree, if there was just a convenient place were they could hide, it would ruin the tension and the stakes. The whole point is that they are in enemy territory and having them chill for 8 hours with no consequences would ruin the stakes. I think what happened was perfect because not only did it increase the tension, the players and characters took a risk and though it succeeded in the end, what happened to anchor arms would be the cost of the long rest.
its a bit odd that the players dont get any critique for playing shoot first think later the whole labrinth though right? Isn't forcing a fight every situation and choosing not to infiltrate or avoid fights a perfectly fine thinig to result in consequences like burnt resources. They literally already knew what they were going into and made all those decisions
they need this rest
I feel bad for Rustage here because I feel like his side of the discussion is very much in the case of "does it make sense for you guys to be able to accomplish this?" vs the players having more of the approach of "but we need it or we will die" which doesn't really make sense becuase there isn't an aspect of fairness that decides whether you heal or not, they entered into a suicide mission and the characters have to make this situation viable on their own "they'll die if they dont long rest" isn't a reason that should come up, thats a matter of player decisions and the DM explaininng what makes sense in the scenario. If I was rustage i'd juist have it be that they can fully leave the labrinth the way they came and long rest but the tavrock pirates also get that time to heal and prepare, suffering serious consequences.
I felt a lil bad here cause players were approaching this from almost a video game balance perception of "well the encounters were hard so we need this for hard encounters" rather than in character realising they have to sacrifice their mission *for now* and leave.
Also i think Rustage is great to come up with the d100 roll, but i think it should have taken a d100 for each person long resting though to add to the difficulty, putting a full reset on battle damage up to one roll makes it seem more like their luck is 50/50 than odds 90% against them. Rustage did good given the circumstances I just wish the players were able to think about long rests and resources before it came to resting for it, thats a major part of the game. And I wish the chat / players didnt give him a bit of a hard time about how they would die if they didnt long rest because Rustage was trying to make it clear that its not just his own wants as a dm thats preventing them, its the situation theyre in. Good DMing but unfortunately chat wasnt great here and made this a hard situation
Also do love the communication between Tekking and Rustage here, I can show that despite the situation having the possibility to be heated the trust between player and gm keeps them grounded and respectful!
I totally understand Tekking saying things like "theyre trying to find us shouldnt that be a roll to see if they do?" but i think its a very player oriented way of thinking of things, with enough time an investigation check to find something in a limited amount of space will auto succeed and with enough people it shall too given it is discoverable, them hiding this way qualifies for that.
Its like saying "get them to roll perception" while as a gm you think "well thats 100 soldiers searching for you thats 100 perception rolls they have and only 1 needs tos ucceed for them to find you.
I was thinking along the lines of them continuously having to roll that d100 until they actually got that 1-10% chance, so that risk is still there