i enjoyed hearing your reflections on Cugel. he is such a terrible person, but I think writing about total assholes has been a great tradition since the earliest days of literature, and Vance is just following that tradition. I recently watched the film version fo night and the City, based on Gerald Kersh's novel of the same name, and reflected on how Harry Fabian in the book is such an utter scumbag with no redeeming features, and yet he's still fun to read about because you want to see what he'll think up next, what wild fantasies he'll spout, or what hot water he'll get into. Cugel is much more charming than harry Fabian, like you said, and maybe it is easy to forget that he's not really redeemable. I would argue though taht most of Vance's characters do talk in that elevated style -- it's one of his trademarks at least in series like this one (not so much in his contemporary mysteries/thrillers of course). What I think happens when we read about Cugel is interesting because we like it both when he is able to figure his way out of a tricky situation, but we also like it when he falls and gets screwed over or hurt, because we know he deserves it. he's a fun character to read about for that reason -- basically anything goes, short of changing the nature of the character himself. Not everyone is into that -- some people demand likeable protagonists, as though these were real people that we would want to be friends with. i never felt that way about books, personally, though. I don't mind spending time with an utter POS so long as the writer can engage me. It's not like I'd enjoy being around them in real life -- but that's what literature is for, in part: For us to be able to vicariously enjoy the kind of crap we wouldn't want to deal with in person.
Cugel is no different than anyone else in the Dying Earth. Vance could have chosen any number of characters, and you would have got the same kind of deplorable acts. It's just the nature of the world at the end of times. That's always been my take on the series.
I'm the guy that suggested A Voyage to Arcturus. So cool that you read it! Hopefully you do a video about it as well. I haven't read any Jack Vance yet. I plan to. I have The Dying Earth omnibus. And a few other of his books. I bet Vance read A Voyage to Arcturus, I know Gene Wolfe did and it influenced The Solar Cycle. Tolkien was a big fan of Voyage as well. Maskull does do some nasty stuff and is misogynistic in the novel but he is also sympathetic to characters with no gender and kind at times. I don't think there's any character quite like Maskull. Basically he becomes a new person whenever he goes to a new setting in the book. Cugal sounds like he's basically a rapscallion that we're tricked into liking and then begin to hate with time. Sounds more like a real person than Maskull. Great video! Love your content dude!
I think Vance enjoyed writing about terrible people, but he surely knew that they were terrible, and believed, or at least hoped, that his readers would know it too.
I agree. A character like Cugal is much more likely to run afoul of different groups instead of just passing by the way a better person would. And since Cugal is terrible we can laugh at his misfortune. If he was good it would be sad or a kind of Job like trial.
The one Vance book I've read (so not an expert) was very allegorical, so perhaps that was his thing. Maybe he'd view some awful thing in the world and build an entire world (I love his world building) around it and make an anti-hero main character to inhabit it!
He does have a number of unsavory protagonists scattered around. Cugal is the most fun I know of (a lot of fun) and that made me forget the really bad stuff. Allegory feels right to me. -Early spoiler- The eyes of the overworld themselves are literally rose colored glasses that make everything seem better. The little village that has them is in complete squalor and people there work most of their lives to get a pair. And that’s just one of many such places Cugal goes.
i enjoyed hearing your reflections on Cugel. he is such a terrible person, but I think writing about total assholes has been a great tradition since the earliest days of literature, and Vance is just following that tradition. I recently watched the film version fo night and the City, based on Gerald Kersh's novel of the same name, and reflected on how Harry Fabian in the book is such an utter scumbag with no redeeming features, and yet he's still fun to read about because you want to see what he'll think up next, what wild fantasies he'll spout, or what hot water he'll get into. Cugel is much more charming than harry Fabian, like you said, and maybe it is easy to forget that he's not really redeemable. I would argue though taht most of Vance's characters do talk in that elevated style -- it's one of his trademarks at least in series like this one (not so much in his contemporary mysteries/thrillers of course). What I think happens when we read about Cugel is interesting because we like it both when he is able to figure his way out of a tricky situation, but we also like it when he falls and gets screwed over or hurt, because we know he deserves it. he's a fun character to read about for that reason -- basically anything goes, short of changing the nature of the character himself. Not everyone is into that -- some people demand likeable protagonists, as though these were real people that we would want to be friends with. i never felt that way about books, personally, though. I don't mind spending time with an utter POS so long as the writer can engage me. It's not like I'd enjoy being around them in real life -- but that's what literature is for, in part: For us to be able to vicariously enjoy the kind of crap we wouldn't want to deal with in person.
Cugel is no different than anyone else in the Dying Earth. Vance could have chosen any number of characters, and you would have got the same kind of deplorable acts. It's just the nature of the world at the end of times. That's always been my take on the series.
great video as always! I've still got my eye open for Dying Earth! I want to find it in the wild!
Thanks! I wish you luck in your search, and deep pockets. You will need them both!! 🙏🏻😆
I'm the guy that suggested A Voyage to Arcturus. So cool that you read it! Hopefully you do a video about it as well.
I haven't read any Jack Vance yet. I plan to. I have The Dying Earth omnibus. And a few other of his books.
I bet Vance read A Voyage to Arcturus, I know Gene Wolfe did and it influenced The Solar Cycle. Tolkien was a big fan of Voyage as well.
Maskull does do some nasty stuff and is misogynistic in the novel but he is also sympathetic to characters with no gender and kind at times. I don't think there's any character quite like Maskull. Basically he becomes a new person whenever he goes to a new setting in the book.
Cugal sounds like he's basically a rapscallion that we're tricked into liking and then begin to hate with time. Sounds more like a real person than Maskull.
Great video! Love your content dude!
Cugel is complete satire about how people really are when stripped of pretense.
I remember reading Wodehouse was an influence/inspiration for Vance. I only read a little Wodehouse but I can see the similarities.
I think Vance enjoyed writing about terrible people, but he surely knew that they were terrible, and believed, or at least hoped, that his readers would know it too.
I think it's satire, which was much more common at the time.
I agree. A character like Cugal is much more likely to run afoul of different groups instead of just passing by the way a better person would.
And since Cugal is terrible we can laugh at his misfortune. If he was good it would be sad or a kind of Job like trial.
The one Vance book I've read (so not an expert) was very allegorical, so perhaps that was his thing. Maybe he'd view some awful thing in the world and build an entire world (I love his world building) around it and make an anti-hero main character to inhabit it!
He does have a number of unsavory protagonists scattered around. Cugal is the most fun I know of (a lot of fun) and that made me forget the really bad stuff.
Allegory feels right to me.
-Early spoiler-
The eyes of the overworld themselves are literally rose colored glasses that make everything seem better. The little village that has them is in complete squalor and people there work most of their lives to get a pair. And that’s just one of many such places Cugal goes.