Tri-ang Hornby X04 High Torque 5 Pole Motor Conversion. A Look At the Airfix 1001 Motor In A 3F Loco
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Today I look at the high torque 5 pole motor from Airfix No 1001. It is a straight swap for the X04 type motor. This is a great conversion for your Hornby Triang Locomotive to improve slow running and low end torque. Great for freight locomotives and shunting yard work. Thank for looking today.
God that was the quickest conversion ever I never even see it maybe I blinked.
Thanks for watching, one screw and one wire to undo and change and the new motor is in. Faster than working on modern items. Take care, all the best to you
I was unaware of these replacement motors. Interesting and I've always found the smoke unit on my 3f's that have them, are not as good runners as those without. It might be my luck of the draw, I've always found at slow speeds smoke unit loco's stutter and stop. That's a heavy train at slow speed, Interesting film clip, Thank You, Paul
Hello Paul, firstly I always disconnect the smoke unit if I'm not using it. the loco draws a little less current then. Stuttering at slow speed is often an indication of a bad connection or dirty contact somewhere, It's amazing how a strip down and clean of everything can change a loco. All the best to you
Hi, thanks for showing this. I will be on the look out for these to replace a couple of faulty X04s with O/C windings. Cheers, Jim L
You can't go wrong with these they are great. Hope you get a couple soon. All the best to you
ah yes lovely motors, became a standard with dad, either complete 1001 or a X04 with a 1001 armature.
You are right. I'm experimenting with these and Zero 1 at the moment, some great results. All the best to you
I wish I'd known about these years ago. Like Oscar, I shall be looking out for them
David.
Hello David, I hope you come across one, they are a good motor to try out. Best regards to you
@@MrSnooze This video inspires me to do a video on train control, I just don't know when I might get around to doing it. David.
They have the brand name Airfix on them, but they were actually made by MRRC (Model Road Racing Cars), owned by the late, great Alban Adams. A three-pole racing version was available that was very successful in slot racing in the '60's in clubs all around the world.
Hello, thanks for watching and writing this comment. That's some interesting information you mention about Mr Alban Adams. I have just watched a fascinating Pathe film about him and a Mr Christopher Crockett making small diesel powered racing cars all by hand, absolutely fantastic. Take care, all the best to you
Good evening great demonstration. I’ve read about those motors, they sound like a great idea. I’ve always wanted to try one but haven’t come across one yet.
Oscar
Hello Oscar, thanks for looking in again. These motors are definitely very smooth and progressive to use. I hope you get to try one out. It would also have been good if someone made a 5 pole armature for things like the Brush Type 2 etc. I have never found any evidence to suggest that occurred though sadly. Best regards to you.
Great tip, thanks!
I hope you get to try one of the these, they are excellent motors. Thanks for watching, all the best to you
This is very interesting. I didn't know that there was a straight drop in alternative to the X04 with 5 poles, I'll have to keep an eye out for some of those.
Hello Rob, They are definitely a great upgrade especially for shunting. Like a lot of things on the auction sites though, a couple of years ago very cheap, now prices are on the up. All the best to you
Yes, there is also the Romford Bulldog 5-pole alternative to the X.03/04 too. Which is a better motor again.
Hi there!
Oscar sent me here as we were discussing it in the comments on his recent Jinty review. I fitted one of these to my pet Triang Jinty back in about 1980. Excellent upgrade and still going strong 40 years down the line.
You have the best combination with a good old H&M Clipper. I have always used Duettes (and later added couple of Walkabouts) since I got my first trainset. Nothing else comes close. Not even the Gaugemaster which was supposed to replace my Duette but gave up after about 10 years.
Great video. I'll be looking out for 1001's on Ebay. Subscribed!
Hello Robin, thanks for looking in. I'm pleased to hear your Jinty is still running well with the upgrade. I really rate the Clipper and Duette controllers. I was wondering about a Gaugemaster as I'd like to try the inertia and brake feature. I've got hold of a broken Hornby 4000 R.8081 with brake etc so if I can fix it I might make a video comparing it to the older controllers. Good luck getting more Airfix motors, they are fantastic. My Jinty is nearly run in now and so quiet and powerful. Best regards to you
@@MrSnooze
Thanks for the reply. Maybe H&M Walkabouts can be found second hand. I have two. They have 3 levels of inertia and a brake control and are quite effective and fun to use. I seem to remember H&M produced a large double track controller with these features. They all disappeared unfortunately after Hornby bought out H&M. After that they just used the HM (and no longer H&M) as a brand on their HM2000. I have one of these but was very disappointed with it's features and performance when compared with my Duettes. Alas it was HM only in name. So it has been sitting in its box unused for the last 20 years.
Edit:
I just found the H&M3000 I was thinking of: www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/hammant-morgan-hm-3000-controller-see-1774114520
@@robinforrest7680 you are very lucky to own those walkabouts. I've never been lucky enough to track one down or a 3000 for that matter. I agree the Hornby 2000 is disappointing too. I have the old H & M little handheld unit that I use in conjunction with the Clipper and it is a great controller for the older Tri-ang and Tri-ang Hornby locomotives I run. It will be interesting if this R.8081 is any good if I can fix it. Best regards to you
Keep us updated if you manage to get that controller working!
HM3000's are pretty rare I guess, and I wonder if in the long run they'd be as reliable as our Duettes and Clippers since they are obviously a lot more complex in terms of circuitry with more stuff to potentially go wrong. If you can find some Walkabouts and hook them up to your existing H&M controllers it's probably the best option. Of course they'll also work alone with any dedicated 16VAC supply.
Certainly a good control method for those of us who'll never be able to go DCC even if we'd like to. I doubt it's possible to fit decoders to many of our beloved Dublo, Wrenn and Triang fleets and even if we could it'd probably cost us a fortune... I may be wrong, I'm a bit out of touch with the modern UK modelling scene since I emigrated across the channel some 30 years ago. I rely mainly on UA-camrs like yourself to keep me up to date!
PS apparently Walkabouts turn up from time to time. This one was sold a couple of weeks ago. Prices seem to be between £20-25 which is actually pretty reasonable...
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/383670061755
@@robinforrest7680 I'm working on the controller at the moment, no success yet unfortunately. I'll definitely keep an eye out for a H & M Walkabout on the auction sites. I know that DCC is attractive with all the features available but there is something about the old analogue DC that keeps me hooked. Best regards to you.
Hi back in the 1980s I purchased one of these plus about 6 armatures which I installed in all my suitable Hornby locos and what difference it made, when I sold most of my locos i swapped armatures from 3 of them to give me spare for locomotives I retained. Stay safe.Cheers from Christchurch New Zealand.
Hello Allan, It's good to hear you enjoyed using these excellent motors too. I'm glad you still have a supply of spares as it's getting harder to find good ones now. Thanks for watching and I hope all is well in New Zealand.
I don't suppose you have come across a Fowler 0-4-0 model in your travels have you, trying to seek one out. Great videos.
Hello mrbroons, thanks for looking. The only Tri-ang Fowler might be the 2P but that is a 4-4-0. might that be the one? There are a few around, I think the one I have is Tri-ang R.450 but it is a little worse for wear. I hope you find the one you are looking for soon. Best regards to you
@Mr Snooze Many thanks, I'll look that up.👍
Hi Mr Snooze I have been watching and enjoying your videos since they appeared on my phone recently.I totally agree about the 1001 motors as I have been using these since the 80's in my kitbuilt and Hornby Dublo convertions.As a further bonus it's also possible to fit a 1001 armature into an XO4 frame this will result in an approx. 3rd reduction in torque but a very smooth performance free of any ( cogging).due to increased air gap.Please Mr Snooze could you tell me where you obtained those combined Volt/Ammeters used in your recent Gauge master DS article.Many thanks and please keep those interesting features coming.
Thanks for watching Robert. good to hear you have been using the five pole motors. I have indeed made hybrid motors using X04 casings. Those meters are available on eBay, just search for digital volt amp meters, they should come up. Best regards to you
I'm pleased I came across this. Do you know if anyone does a similar upgrade for the motor of the Triang Blu Pullman?
Hello, I converted a Tri-ang Class 31 Bogie to five pole a few videos back. I might get around to doing a Dock Shunter or Pullman Bogie at some point. Thanks for watching, all the best to you
Hi There ,, Mr Snooze ,, I bought a few spares off a guy in Northern Queensland and the parts were for an athearn budd rail car and it had a 5 pole motor in it.
I looked at it when I got it and thought my goodness that looks almost identical to a xo4 motor but they were coupled up with really long tailshaft types shafts that drive both the bogies at each end of carriage. I havent got around to fitting this motor to the budd rail car yet but now knowing what you said in the video that the 5 pole motor i have may just get
re-assisgned to an R.356s 4-6-2 winston churchil loco (are these called a spam can ?) thats on its way from the uk to here in oz that i have just recently bought from the uk.
It has a running engine in it but i can put the engine into some of the other projects i have got going on here at the moment.
So thanks for the great info , its great m8.
Thankyou.
Cheers from John in Australia.
Thanks for watching John, it sounds like you have an impressive motor there. I also think your projects sound interesting. Thanks for taking the time to comment. Best regards to you
Airfix Large prairie tanks have those 5 pole motors I think.
Please correct me if I'm wrong
Well I've recently repaired an Airfix Prairie Tank and it actually has a slightly larger five pole motor with a plastic front end that the brushes go in. This one, the 1001, is a direct swap for an X04. All the best to you
Interesting. Have tried a couple of motors; one OK, other slow. Problem probably not motor. My problem is t-i-m-e to fix it. No spare part brushes available and Triang don't fit. Any ideas? Perhaps look into retrofitting the armature into an X-04???? Try your motors with Triang single start worms (not the more recent plastic thing). Always check loco for heating after extended running - the kid who gets the thing after you won't!
Peter
Hello Peter, I shall have to look at the brushes, I wonder how different they are. Best regards to you
@@MrSnooze
It is a while since I looked at these, but from memory the 'Airfix' motor has brush heads with formed lugs that fit into slots on the brush arms, relying on spring pressure to hold them in. Cannot remember if the spring carries the drive current for the motor; if so shouldn't be too hard to bypass?? If you are not running DCC (DKK) and are using these motors for the finer running of 5 slot armatures, I have found Don Hansen's 'Transistor Controller with a Future' (Kalmbach 'Model Railroader' June 75?) to be so good with its pulse circuit (square wave like DCC) as to make X-04 motor replacement not worthwhile - still an improvement, but not improvement enough. Worth a thought. This throttle when mixed with a five slot motor and single start worm in a Triang locomotive (not engine) is great for snouting purists (It runs better than theirs). It is not so very hard you know; we modellers are great at finding unnecessarily complex and expensive solutions. Not an expert, but I learn from these forums; glad to be of help.
Best Wishes.
@@MrSnooze Interesting stuff. Peter, the major problem is p-r-o-b-a-b-l-y tinning the carbon so it can be soldered to the holder. And NO: conductive paint/glue doesn't work. Try obtaining a new set of x04 brushes from Peters Spares. Unsolder the pads and solder to the Airfix. I cannot remember if Airfix have a soldered carbon, or physically captive. Either way, it should still be possible to tin and solder to the Airfix holder. If there is an aperture in the holder to hold the carbon, simple plate over with a piece of K&S brass so you have a proper base. If, like me, you are 'lousy', take a pair of tin snips to a tin can top and get a bit of tinplate that way.
Can't guarantee this works, but it almost certainly does, and as the loco is useless without replacement carbons, you have little to lose. Do all modifications so they can be reversed if they don't work.
If you are still with me, three quick notes:1/ Fitting a single start worm (brass and from the old turntable) makes these models into something to annoy the modern lot. Does anyone have a source for these? A 1/4" Whitworth brass bolt with a machined thread is worth trying, but EXHAUSTIVE testing against overheating is needed. 2/ Approach one of the clubs for advice on updating the component list for Don Hansen's 'Throttle With a Future', June 1975 Model Railroader, Kalmbach. I keep mentioning this but everyone thinks I am mad (I'll admit to it if everyone else does). You will never need to convert to five slot armatures again.
Hope this helps, and thanks to the ever sleepy 'Mr Snooze'.
Peter
Since writing my 'reply' yesterday, have been reminded the Triang carbons have a round mounting lug that goes into the brush holder. That's OK. Just buy a new set of brushes, cut away the carbon holding part of the brush complete with its soldered carbon, then solder it to the Airfix holder. It might be necessary to bend the arm for 'width' tolerance. It might not be successful, but is worth trying.
Peter
@@petert9749 It is interesting about these brushes. In one of Pat Hammonds excellent 'Story Of Rovex' books there is a paragraph about a brush supplier having problems bonding the coating to the carbon to allow for soldering. Lots of brushes failed and a remedy had to be sought. I have tried a few third party replacements and there seems to be a few differences in arm length and folds for location and springs etc. I have found careful adjustment of the brush arm works in most cases. Best regards to you
Hi all.
Have looked everywhere but this item appears to be non-existent; probably as rare as hen's teeth so don't have any expectations.
Paul.
As an add-on, I've just spied an Airfix MRRC 1003 5-pole going for £30 + Free Postage on the well known auction site. Hope this helps. 👍
Paul.
These do crop up but at the moment they seem to fetch quite high prices. Sometimes a train fair can yield results. Take care, all the best to you
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