A force sensing option coming? Wow, that is impressive! I have the FSSB3 from Real Simulator which is a positively brilliant bit of kit. WinWing has their work cut out for them if they want to come close to that one! Thanks for the video, sir!
I've always wanted a FSSB3, but money keeps me from pulling the trigger. I can't wait for WW to finish up and release their competitor, force sensing is a pretty rare feature!
@@RedKiteRender I look forward to your review of the force sensing version. I really like the extra functionality of the WW F-16EX grip. If your review is favorable, I will likely grab the Orion 2. I just received my new WW throttle with the F-16 grip, and I am really enjoying it! WW is really becoming a force in the flight/space sim controller world.
Yeah they've just been cranking out designs, and largely speaking keep the quality high enough and prices competitive. Whilst Thrustmaster seem to only be interested in game pads and wheels. VPC whilst god tier quality are so slow to release new designs and the other slightly smaller companies equally slow, or heavily limited by supply.
Very nice, thank you Red !! I hope you enjoyed your stay at Haifa ;-) I can't wait for your review on the dampening kit for helicopters ; if it is convicing I'll buy it to replace my Moongose.
Hope i did allright with the voice acting! first time doing anything like that :) I really need to get on with Raven One DF! Flown 1,2,3 thus far, but behind on the editing, excellent campaign.
@@RedKiteRender Absolutely you did good ! You sound worried but focused and your voice quite matches the tone you have in your YT content so ... well, definitely sounds like you actually are on that plane. Very nice job.
Thanks for the kind words, I wasn't looking to sound like a different person, (not sure if i could pull that off!) Kevin Miller wanted me in after I'd done my play through of the original R1 as a little thank you. (it was how he experienced the campaign, since he doesn't fly dcs!)
@@RedKiteRender Wise choice. I was hoping you'd do it before I start myself but I gave it a go. I suggest you don't try it until at least the july 20th patch which I hope will squash the bugs that are blocking the campaign. In the meantime, I look forward to see your review about the dampers on the stick to fly rotaries and if you don't own an helicopter module I'd be pleased to offer you one.
Thanks for the First impressions. You mentioned about setting up the dampeners for the review, would def be interested to see how these work. If you have a Super Libra base, it would be good to get a side by side comparison in the review, in addition the Virpil comparison. Trying to work out if with the Orion 2 dampener kit, the Orion would have a similar setup to the Libra - i.e. spring, cams & dampener all operating at the same time, so that return to center of the springs is well ... "dampened". The Libra's dampeners appear mostly metal construction, with Orion add on dampeners being plastic. Supra libra centre perhaps less smooth than Orion, as libra transitions from one cam to another just off centre, where Orion has overlapping cams throughout range - how is the centre / off centre feel between the two? etc. Orion 2 looks like a significant improvement vs gen 1. If its possible would you be able to ask WinWing of they plan to release a Supra Libra 2 / gen 2 at somepoint in the next 3-6mths, or beyond.
Just to clarify I'm not sponsored by WinWing (in fact I've declined an offer for it) I just get the hardware for free, i felt accepting money as well as the hardware is too much of a conflict of interest. :)
@@RedKiteRender I see! Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure they have also taken your reviews into consideration when they made the orion 2, with the centered cam option and all! Good to see that you're keeping yourself aware of COI and such. Thanks for your work!
Gotta keep in mind when comparing bases, that you have the heavy Warthog stick on the WarBRD base. The WarBRD base feels a lot different when you only have a WarBRD stick on it for example.
Thanks. This is only the second "un-boxing" I've ever watched (someone else, not you). The first one left me scratching my head; watching someone open a box??? But you went further to highlight the changes. So I'm calling it an "Unboxing Plus". :) As for the time taken to edit videos, yes, a real PITA. From you, a trusted source, I don't need a lot of polish personally, but I understand.
I never really understood those who 'just' unbox in videos. It's okay to see how well the packing is, and what's in the box, but that can be done in less than a min and doesn't tell you anything about the actual product.
The reduced throw is probably to allow the use of an extension, which is now a recomneded attachment. Although people did use them with the Orion 1, WW advised against it (as VPC do with the WarBRD's large throw)
The joystick staying where it is, unless there's some actual force that will return it to that position when you move it, seems like it will be basically useless for a chopper since it won't mimic chopper trimming properly and you'll never be able to manually index the joystick back to where it was to retrim the chopper, at which point you may as well just use a regular stick
Great review. Although I love my Orion 1, I keep coming back to my WarBRD. I think I'll wait for the Winwing FFB base before I move on from the Virpil, but I have nothing but good things to say about the Winwing throttle units. Great vid and I hope you are feeling better!
Realistically, you don't want a smooth and easy stick. I have found the lighter the stick the harder it is to fly. Real military sticks are hydraulic and are very stiff. Kind of like a car without power steering, it only gets smoother when you are moving. A damper would be idea for all sticks without FFB.
@@RedKiteRender I guess a non extended stick would be better. I have actually forgotten how a non extended stick feels. I've been using a 20cm extension for years now. I was looking at buying the Brunner CLS-E Force Feedback base.
Really excited for this. Sucks that I already got the Orion 2 throttle base with the F16EX stick but its cool. I will probably end up still get this as well for the Forcing Sensing since I fly the DCS F16 mainly so this would be awesome to have. Very impressed so far with their products.
I just received my Orion 2 base with f16 stick. Does yours twist (like using a rudder)? It seems like it shouldn't do that so just asking if yours does.
I got the libra stick because I wanted the best stick and have no plans to ever modify, I guess people like to change up things. the center to center is perfect, that virpil looks like a wet noodle at its center
I always found the centre on the Libra a bit heavy, and hard to work around, although i love the clutches. My Vripil has smooth cams and soft springs, combined with a slightly heavy TM WH stick. So, yep, will wobble freely when the base is moved around, removed from the mount. Stiffer springs/cams would stop that. But, i like my 'wet noddle!' gives precise tiny corrections without fighting the mechanics, and still returns correctly to the centre. That's the great thing about offering customisable cams/springs you set it up how you like.
Have gotten some deeper impressions? I still thinking about getting the throttle and stick combo.. But not sure if it's worth it coming from the warthog
where would one put grease on this? I thought grease on cams just ruined the bearings over time? Very solid video, i have the full HOTAS set on the way (F18 throttle, F16EX stick like whats in this vid) im so excited, jumping to the big leagues from ye olde X52!
You would put a very light grease/machine oil on the cams. However I've not cleared with WW if this is a good idea yet. The Cams on the Virpil WarBRD for example come lightly oiled. Enjoy your upgrade! That's a monumental leap up from the X-52.
@@RedKiteRender thank you for the prompt reply! I am so excited to have something good. Ive gotten pretty good at working around the incredibly aggressive center on the X52, and have its button layout pretty much mastered, so i have several years of muscle memory to unlearn now but i am so ready. Primarily play elite, but with hardware this nice i guess i should buy the F/A 18c module for DCS and accept my fate as a fighter pilot haha
@@RedKiteRender got another question i cant seem to find an answer to anywhere. Can the vibration motor in the stick be used for other titles that have vibration as if it were a controller w/ vibration? like for Elite Dangerous as an example
@@RedKiteRender thats kind of a bummer. Maybe via software update down the line they could have the vibration function like any other xinput motor. Logically it should be doable, its just giving them a reason to i guess lol. Thanks for your insight! Also, the motor for the vibration: its in the F16EX stick by default, but does not do anything without the 'shake kit' correct?
Did you get the telescoping extension? Would like to see a functional dry clutch review (no springs) with the extension for helicopter use. I wasn’t aware the force sense function was going to be sold as a separate module, or will that be shipped to you at a later date when done as part of the original package? Good first unboxing 👍
I have the telescoping extension and twist already, they'll be included as part of the full review! The Force sensing module is not done yet, and will be sent out to me when it's complete and will probably get it's own review.
I got mine a few weeks ago.. I can't help it but i absolutely hate the last part of the travel of the stick.. It feels like you have to push it trough & the stick wants to come back to before the "bump" at the end.. To be honest i like the Warthog base better.. 😅
If you got the cam/spring/damper set with it I'd highly recommend you try the nc-01 cams, that'll remove the increased resistance you feel on the edge, making it linear.
do you have grease on the cams? i know its not the same base but VKB said thats a no no for their product, they said the ring should be allowed to spin not slide
I was wondering if the Orion 2 cams would fit in the Lybra joystick. I replaced the stock Lybra joystick split cams with my own 3D printed design, and the Orion 2 cams look almost identical to the ones that I designed for the Lybra 2
@@RedKiteRender ON the Libra, I removed the stop in between the two cams I made, and it doesn't make a difference since my 3D printed cams are one solid piece, unlike the factory cams that are spit in the middle.
Hey Kite, do you or anyone know why I can't get the stick attachment ring to line up at 6 o'clock where the flat spot on the thread is? I have both an Orion 1 and 2 base and the hornet and 16ex grips and in any combination that little hex screw lines up between 7 and 8 o'clock on the threads themselves.
I've struggle with this too, is a bit of an issue with WW's grips. I put a washer inside, so the thread caps out sooner. I have managed a few times to get it just right, as intended but with how often i change things around i just did the bodge fix.
Hi not sure if you've already answered this but can this base take a warthog grip 🤔 great video as always, looking forward to the damping video as I mostly fly choppers
As always a great review. Been following for some time, really appreciate the content. My go to channel to learn the viper now. I currently have the TM1600 throttle and TM Warthog stick. I find the stick very stiff and cannot AAR the viper but can the hornet more or less. With the TM1600 stick I found it more smooth and could AAR the hornet no issue. Is the Orion 2 stick THAT much of an upgrade to feel/control from the Warthog stick? I know the throttle is huge upgrade... but I'm wondering about the feel of the stick compared to warthog. Great channel, finally sub'd.
Big upgrade, the warthog gimbal is universally a terrible base design, it's prone to sticking, being stiff and doesn't move that smoothly. The Orion 2 base is so much better, metal parts, lubed rollers, it's smooth and you can choose how still the stick is, or how the resistance changes as you move away from the centre (eg increases or linear)
@@RedKiteRender I found even with my first stick, the TM1600, it was fluid and I could AAR after practice. Moved to Warthog and couldn't do anything. WAY too hard to control fine movements. I have crazy curves set on it and still cannot manage it. I purchased and am awaiting on the WingWin F16 and Orion 2 throttle now...
Nyogel 767A is a popular one, adds a damping effect. However any non conductive grease (usually silicone based) should be just fine. You only want it where the rollers contact the cams, be sparing. I must stress the non-conductive part, grease/lube can spread onto the boards and you could short circuit it, killing the electronics.
@@JanHirsch-sn1xi I've no recommendations, I have used generic silicone grease in the past for both a joystick and my 3d printer. Nyogel is popular because it's a thicker, damping grease, but any will do the job. Thinner ones will not give the damping effect but will smooth the action, reduce/eliminate "stiction" (static friction).
@RedKiteRender Thank you very much for the information. Sorry, I just have one more question: what does the dampening effect do? I've never heard of that before.
@@JanHirsch-sn1xi It in effect eases your motions, so it'll slow to a stop putting up some extra resistance. For example if you suddenly move your stick to a new position and stop, without damping; it'll wobble with the inertia fighting your stopped hand. With damping (Mechanical damping or damping grease) the stick should stop dead where your hand did, or at least wobble less. Too much and the stick will start to stick however, some people like the 'hydraulic feel' often saying it's more premium. Others prefer the softer feel without damping, or just using mechanical dampers. As mentioned in the video, the optional mechanical dampers on the Orion 2 get a little sticky on high settings.
Fanstastic that you got this. Iwas just yesterday looking around for a new base to finally retire my warthog base, and found the neewly released orion2. I'm still leaning towards the warbrd base now. i want that silky smooth center. Quick question on the warbrd if you dont mind. i noticed you have it on the virpil mount. Do you have any clearance issues? i plan on keeping my 75mm extension and the warthog grip. Glad your doing better again.
I've not had any issues, even with a short extension, with the Warthog stick. Can't comment for any of Virpil's stick designs, but I'd expect they're fully compatible.
RedKite, I just got my F16EX with Orion2, and does yours twist left to the right if you twist the stick. Think X56 using a rudder without pedals. Mine seems really loose and easy to twist. Maybe that is by design, so if I didn't have petals? Or is there something wrong with mine?
You need to tighten the grip, note the flat sides, there's a hole in the collar for a grub screw, line the hole up with the flat side, tighten in the grub screw. DO NOT tighten the grub into the thread, that'll jam the stick. See the manual if you're confused.
@@RedKiteRender That was it. I backed if off too much thinking I was going to hit the threads and I need to tighten the collar more. Problem solved. Thanks a ton. The "directions" are a bit misleading.
@@RedKiteRender ah thank you. i have the warthog now...coming from x56 this is fantastic... i tried the old warbrd few days ago and WOW what a precision! but i have interest too in orion 2 because can give the possibility to fly helicopters well
@@RedKiteRender Ciao Here is Nils ^^ from nerd account.. after your videos i m thinking to buy the orion2 with f15 ex II and f16stick +shaker.. i think is very good kit
If you get sent the winwing F18 DDIs and UFC are you gonna try and get a monstertech mount created for it or not, I have no clue if you use monstertech or not, but with all the new stuff their putting out, I am seriously considering getting a MTS rig at this point, and just Not having to worry about pushing my pedals away from me
@@RedKiteRender from what I have heard they will happily work with pretty much anyone, and it will always be nice to see people who get early access to new products approach them, so the main stream people don't have to wait as long as they would of
@@RedKiteRender Thanks, I am going to use the addon extension, but they now show the Orion2 base as compatible with the extension. I also noticed under the description of the cams/springs that you can double up on them. Maybe that's needed for the extension?
What's a 'good' result for the jiggle test? / What are you looking for in doing that? Because the setup will dramatically change the 'jiggle' (like soft centres slowing it)
So are you interested in how accurately it stops back at the axis centre, or are you interested in how much wobble it has before settling at the centre? I'll be sure to include a 'wobble test' for you in the review video later on. I've not had any issues with axis centre feel or return from my standpoint so far on stock setup.
@@RedKiteRender I think he is after the "kickback" from the wobble, which is detrimental to accuracy as much as the center vs soft center issue. VPC bases (and Orion 1) are clutchless, and that is a huge problem for most of us. Nyogel 767a on clutches with a no center or soft center cam is IMO better than anything by a LONG shot. I also don't think the "smooth" description you are using is accurate, the full range can be smooth and still have a center bump/crossover, which are both a better terms. My sidestick currently is a VKB GF with the old 10 cams (no center progressive) and clutches and a VKB GF center stick with extension and soft progressives with clutches. I also have an MT50 VPC base, and it's also no center cams, but the wobble makes it WAAAAAAAAY less accurate VS either of the VKB bases I use. So much so I just can't or won't use the VPC in any capacity. I also used a WarBRD for a short time, I found it inferior to all of the bases because of the lack of clutches (otherwise it would be fine). Now this (wobble and push back) might not be an issue if your doing most of your manuevering at center or not doing much "gunfighting", but as a primarily WW2 to jets (I don't fly the ones with fly-by-wire often), having that wobble is such an issue. It's worse than the center breakout issues of the Warthog gimble during a fight . During refuel etc I would 100% agree that the no center wobble is perfectly good and much better than a terrible center. Softs, though, don't really effect accuracy the same way hard centers do, though. Warthog has a hard center. Cam designs also have "crossover", which the Warthog does not, it just has center breakout from the "ball" style gimbal. The old CH Fighterstick had hard center / crossover. None of the gimbals with cams have "bad" breakout or crossover with the soft cams, though.
@@RedKiteRender Also this (clutches) is why so many of us are excited about the Orion 2, finally another option to the VKB Gunfighter series, which gives several more options. I personally don't like the feel of the TM Warthog or F18, and find the WW switches etc to feel superior to the TM ones on the grip.
@@RedKiteRender the warbrd base is modular. I can use any virpil stick on mine. I had constellation deltas then moved to the alpha sticks. Seamless. The force sensing is non existing as yet. And from the way you described it I would never want that. The dampening doesn't sound horrible. Maybe. But this is still a straight up copy. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
Every single major base has swappable handles. I think you're being unfair with this 'it's a straight copy' even WW's F-16 stick has a vibration motor, again a unique feature. Force sensing not being ready yet doesn't devalue the fact they're doing it. It's iterative improvements and new experiments in design, not copycat.
I think the shake kit is referring to the little vibration motor inside the F-16ex handle? The translations WW do can be a little difficult to parse sometimes.
@@RedKiteRender Really thanks for the reply. And the last one if possible. Do you know if the dampers to act as helicopters come with the product not paying anymore? I saw in the page that it seems as 40$ or so, but don't know if they are just for replacement. Thanks!
@@RedKiteRender yeah, trying to read WinWing documentation is kind of like trying to watch “Das Boot” after it’s been translated from German to English via Spanish and Mandarin😀
Its BS in my opinion they didn't offer a upgrade for Libra which is what got them started smart play WINWING!!! An this is why I have canceled my order for the F-16 I going to order VKB warbird instead has more options in my opinion for other games.
The WarBRD-D has the advantage, but they're not terribly far off. The Joystick handles available for each vary, and are not cross compatible, so take at look at both side's offerings (TM sticks also work on Vripil) I would say the Virpil wins, unless you want a specific WW handle (like the vibrating F16EX)
The lack of travel might be beneficial when using an extension, kind of like the difference between the Warbrd and Mongoose bases from Virpil
A force sensing option coming? Wow, that is impressive! I have the FSSB3 from Real Simulator which is a positively brilliant bit of kit. WinWing has their work cut out for them if they want to come close to that one! Thanks for the video, sir!
I've always wanted a FSSB3, but money keeps me from pulling the trigger. I can't wait for WW to finish up and release their competitor, force sensing is a pretty rare feature!
@@RedKiteRender I look forward to your review of the force sensing version. I really like the extra functionality of the WW F-16EX grip. If your review is favorable, I will likely grab the Orion 2. I just received my new WW throttle with the F-16 grip, and I am really enjoying it! WW is really becoming a force in the flight/space sim controller world.
Yeah they've just been cranking out designs, and largely speaking keep the quality high enough and prices competitive. Whilst Thrustmaster seem to only be interested in game pads and wheels. VPC whilst god tier quality are so slow to release new designs and the other slightly smaller companies equally slow, or heavily limited by supply.
There is a small deadzone set in the stick which you have to manually remove in the software, after that it is amazingly smooth
Very nice, thank you Red !! I hope you enjoyed your stay at Haifa ;-)
I can't wait for your review on the dampening kit for helicopters ; if it is convicing I'll buy it to replace my Moongose.
Hope i did allright with the voice acting! first time doing anything like that :)
I really need to get on with Raven One DF! Flown 1,2,3 thus far, but behind on the editing, excellent campaign.
@@RedKiteRender
Well, don't bother for now. AI and Hornet are so bugged at the moment that it is not worth the frustration.
@@RedKiteRender
Absolutely you did good !
You sound worried but focused and your voice quite matches the tone you have in your YT content so ... well, definitely sounds like you actually are on that plane.
Very nice job.
Thanks for the kind words, I wasn't looking to sound like a different person, (not sure if i could pull that off!) Kevin Miller wanted me in after I'd done my play through of the original R1 as a little thank you. (it was how he experienced the campaign, since he doesn't fly dcs!)
@@RedKiteRender
Wise choice.
I was hoping you'd do it before I start myself but I gave it a go.
I suggest you don't try it until at least the july 20th patch which I hope will squash the bugs that are blocking the campaign.
In the meantime, I look forward to see your review about the dampers on the stick to fly rotaries and if you don't own an helicopter module I'd be pleased to offer you one.
Thanks for the First impressions. You mentioned about setting up the dampeners for the review, would def be interested to see how these work. If you have a Super Libra base, it would be good to get a side by side comparison in the review, in addition the Virpil comparison. Trying to work out if with the Orion 2 dampener kit, the Orion would have a similar setup to the Libra - i.e. spring, cams & dampener all operating at the same time, so that return to center of the springs is well ... "dampened". The Libra's dampeners appear mostly metal construction, with Orion add on dampeners being plastic. Supra libra centre perhaps less smooth than Orion, as libra transitions from one cam to another just off centre, where Orion has overlapping cams throughout range - how is the centre / off centre feel between the two? etc.
Orion 2 looks like a significant improvement vs gen 1. If its possible would you be able to ask WinWing of they plan to release a Supra Libra 2 / gen 2 at somepoint in the next 3-6mths, or beyond.
I would love to see you get on ED payroll. I really enjoy watching your vids.
Love your impartial reviews and how you stay objective despite all the sponsors. Love your work, keep it up man!
Just to clarify I'm not sponsored by WinWing (in fact I've declined an offer for it) I just get the hardware for free, i felt accepting money as well as the hardware is too much of a conflict of interest. :)
@@RedKiteRender I see! Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure they have also taken your reviews into consideration when they made the orion 2, with the centered cam option and all! Good to see that you're keeping yourself aware of COI and such. Thanks for your work!
Hey virpil just came out with a 50CM3 base that has dampeners for helicopter flight.
Gotta keep in mind when comparing bases, that you have the heavy Warthog stick on the WarBRD base. The WarBRD base feels a lot different when you only have a WarBRD stick on it for example.
Thanks. This is only the second "un-boxing" I've ever watched (someone else, not you). The first one left me scratching my head; watching someone open a box???
But you went further to highlight the changes. So I'm calling it an "Unboxing Plus". :)
As for the time taken to edit videos, yes, a real PITA. From you, a trusted source, I don't need a lot of polish personally, but I understand.
I never really understood those who 'just' unbox in videos. It's okay to see how well the packing is, and what's in the box, but that can be done in less than a min and doesn't tell you anything about the actual product.
The reduced throw is probably to allow the use of an extension, which is now a recomneded attachment. Although people did use them with the Orion 1, WW advised against it (as VPC do with the WarBRD's large throw)
Yes, i did question WW on that since recording and they do say extensions are fine with it long as it's desk mounted securely.
Red kite, just wonder mate if you may have done a video of the FA-18 grip assembly? Cheers
If only I could afford the force sensing and the stick itself
The joystick staying where it is, unless there's some actual force that will return it to that position when you move it, seems like it will be basically useless for a chopper since it won't mimic chopper trimming properly and you'll never be able to manually index the joystick back to where it was to retrim the chopper, at which point you may as well just use a regular stick
How does this compare to the Super Libra? I'm confused at the difference.
Great review. Although I love my Orion 1, I keep coming back to my WarBRD. I think I'll wait for the Winwing FFB base before I move on from the Virpil, but I have nothing but good things to say about the Winwing throttle units. Great vid and I hope you are feeling better!
Wow it has some really nice additions! I wish I could afford it.
Thank You, I learned a lot. Think I'll order one!
Realistically, you don't want a smooth and easy stick. I have found the lighter the stick the harder it is to fly. Real military sticks are hydraulic and are very stiff. Kind of like a car without power steering, it only gets smoother when you are moving. A damper would be idea for all sticks without FFB.
Give it an extension and i'm more inclined to agree, but without, i find smooth, detent-less much more accurate.
@@RedKiteRender I guess a non extended stick would be better. I have actually forgotten how a non extended stick feels. I've been using a 20cm extension for years now. I was looking at buying the Brunner CLS-E Force Feedback base.
Really excited for this. Sucks that I already got the Orion 2 throttle base with the F16EX stick but its cool. I will probably end up still get this as well for the Forcing Sensing since I fly the DCS F16 mainly so this would be awesome to have. Very impressed so far with their products.
I just received my Orion 2 base with f16 stick. Does yours twist (like using a rudder)? It seems like it shouldn't do that so just asking if yours does.
I got the libra stick because I wanted the best stick and have no plans to ever modify, I guess people like to change up things. the center to center is perfect, that virpil looks like a wet noodle at its center
I always found the centre on the Libra a bit heavy, and hard to work around, although i love the clutches. My Vripil has smooth cams and soft springs, combined with a slightly heavy TM WH stick.
So, yep, will wobble freely when the base is moved around, removed from the mount. Stiffer springs/cams would stop that. But, i like my 'wet noddle!' gives precise tiny corrections without fighting the mechanics, and still returns correctly to the centre.
That's the great thing about offering customisable cams/springs you set it up how you like.
Have gotten some deeper impressions? I still thinking about getting the throttle and stick combo.. But not sure if it's worth it coming from the warthog
where would one put grease on this? I thought grease on cams just ruined the bearings over time? Very solid video, i have the full HOTAS set on the way (F18 throttle, F16EX stick like whats in this vid) im so excited, jumping to the big leagues from ye olde X52!
You would put a very light grease/machine oil on the cams. However I've not cleared with WW if this is a good idea yet.
The Cams on the Virpil WarBRD for example come lightly oiled.
Enjoy your upgrade! That's a monumental leap up from the X-52.
@@RedKiteRender thank you for the prompt reply! I am so excited to have something good. Ive gotten pretty good at working around the incredibly aggressive center on the X52, and have its button layout pretty much mastered, so i have several years of muscle memory to unlearn now but i am so ready. Primarily play elite, but with hardware this nice i guess i should buy the F/A 18c module for DCS and accept my fate as a fighter pilot haha
@@RedKiteRender got another question i cant seem to find an answer to anywhere. Can the vibration motor in the stick be used for other titles that have vibration as if it were a controller w/ vibration? like for Elite Dangerous as an example
@@mastafoo886 It's only DCS far as i'm aware, as it runs through the SimAppPro software that WW make.
@@RedKiteRender thats kind of a bummer. Maybe via software update down the line they could have the vibration function like any other xinput motor. Logically it should be doable, its just giving them a reason to i guess lol. Thanks for your insight! Also, the motor for the vibration: its in the F16EX stick by default, but does not do anything without the 'shake kit' correct?
Did you get the telescoping extension? Would like to see a functional dry clutch review (no springs) with the extension for helicopter use. I wasn’t aware the force sense function was going to be sold as a separate module, or will that be shipped to you at a later date when done as part of the original package? Good first unboxing 👍
I have the telescoping extension and twist already, they'll be included as part of the full review! The Force sensing module is not done yet, and will be sent out to me when it's complete and will probably get it's own review.
I got mine a few weeks ago.. I can't help it but i absolutely hate the last part of the travel of the stick.. It feels like you have to push it trough & the stick wants to come back to before the "bump" at the end.. To be honest i like the Warthog base better.. 😅
If you got the cam/spring/damper set with it I'd highly recommend you try the nc-01 cams, that'll remove the increased resistance you feel on the edge, making it linear.
@@RedKiteRender Thanks for the advice man! I'll order the cam kit & give it a try!
do you have grease on the cams? i know its not the same base but VKB said thats a no no for their product, they said the ring should be allowed to spin not slide
There is no grease on the cams as stock, and i've not applied any. That's something i'm waiting on WW to answer about before i consider doing it.
Hi, based on your experience, which base do you think is best suited for the Airbus A320? Greetings
Do you know what the differences are between the Orion2 and the Super Libra, and which is better these days?
I was wondering if the Orion 2 cams would fit in the Lybra joystick. I replaced the stock Lybra joystick split cams with my own 3D printed design, and the Orion 2 cams look almost identical to the ones that I designed for the Lybra 2
Libra's cams are much thicker, but... i might try that
@@RedKiteRender ON the Libra, I removed the stop in between the two cams I made, and it doesn't make a difference since my 3D printed cams are one solid piece, unlike the factory cams that are spit in the middle.
now do you have to return these after you review them? or you lucky enough to keep these jems?
I get to keep the hardware afterwards.
Hey Kite, do you or anyone know why I can't get the stick attachment ring to line up at 6 o'clock where the flat spot on the thread is?
I have both an Orion 1 and 2 base and the hornet and 16ex grips and in any combination that little hex screw lines up between 7 and 8 o'clock on the threads themselves.
I've struggle with this too, is a bit of an issue with WW's grips. I put a washer inside, so the thread caps out sooner. I have managed a few times to get it just right, as intended but with how often i change things around i just did the bodge fix.
Hi not sure if you've already answered this but can this base take a warthog grip 🤔 great video as always, looking forward to the damping video as I mostly fly choppers
It's not compatible with the thrustmaster grips, unless you physically modify your handle with a kit, which I'd not really recommend.
As always a great review. Been following for some time, really appreciate the content. My go to channel to learn the viper now. I currently have the TM1600 throttle and TM Warthog stick. I find the stick very stiff and cannot AAR the viper but can the hornet more or less. With the TM1600 stick I found it more smooth and could AAR the hornet no issue. Is the Orion 2 stick THAT much of an upgrade to feel/control from the Warthog stick? I know the throttle is huge upgrade... but I'm wondering about the feel of the stick compared to warthog. Great channel, finally sub'd.
Big upgrade, the warthog gimbal is universally a terrible base design, it's prone to sticking, being stiff and doesn't move that smoothly. The Orion 2 base is so much better, metal parts, lubed rollers, it's smooth and you can choose how still the stick is, or how the resistance changes as you move away from the centre (eg increases or linear)
@@RedKiteRender I found even with my first stick, the TM1600, it was fluid and I could AAR after practice. Moved to Warthog and couldn't do anything. WAY too hard to control fine movements. I have crazy curves set on it and still cannot manage it. I purchased and am awaiting on the WingWin F16 and Orion 2 throttle now...
Which grease can I use to improve the Winwing Orion 2? Do I apply the grease between the cams as shown in the video for the first model?
Nyogel 767A is a popular one, adds a damping effect. However any non conductive grease (usually silicone based) should be just fine. You only want it where the rollers contact the cams, be sparing.
I must stress the non-conductive part, grease/lube can spread onto the boards and you could short circuit it, killing the electronics.
@RedKiteRender Thanks for the information. But it's very expensive and not easy to get. Is there perhaps an alternative?
@@JanHirsch-sn1xi I've no recommendations, I have used generic silicone grease in the past for both a joystick and my 3d printer. Nyogel is popular because it's a thicker, damping grease, but any will do the job. Thinner ones will not give the damping effect but will smooth the action, reduce/eliminate "stiction" (static friction).
@RedKiteRender Thank you very much for the information. Sorry, I just have one more question: what does the dampening effect do? I've never heard of that before.
@@JanHirsch-sn1xi It in effect eases your motions, so it'll slow to a stop putting up some extra resistance. For example if you suddenly move your stick to a new position and stop, without damping; it'll wobble with the inertia fighting your stopped hand. With damping (Mechanical damping or damping grease) the stick should stop dead where your hand did, or at least wobble less.
Too much and the stick will start to stick however, some people like the 'hydraulic feel' often saying it's more premium. Others prefer the softer feel without damping, or just using mechanical dampers. As mentioned in the video, the optional mechanical dampers on the Orion 2 get a little sticky on high settings.
Fanstastic that you got this. Iwas just yesterday looking around for a new base to finally retire my warthog base, and found the neewly released orion2. I'm still leaning towards the warbrd base now. i want that silky smooth center. Quick question on the warbrd if you dont mind. i noticed you have it on the virpil mount. Do you have any clearance issues? i plan on keeping my 75mm extension and the warthog grip. Glad your doing better again.
I've not had any issues, even with a short extension, with the Warthog stick. Can't comment for any of Virpil's stick designs, but I'd expect they're fully compatible.
@@RedKiteRender Thank you very much.I might just pull the trigger, so to speak .
RedKite, I just got my F16EX with Orion2, and does yours twist left to the right if you twist the stick. Think X56 using a rudder without pedals. Mine seems really loose and easy to twist. Maybe that is by design, so if I didn't have petals? Or is there something wrong with mine?
You need to tighten the grip, note the flat sides, there's a hole in the collar for a grub screw, line the hole up with the flat side, tighten in the grub screw. DO NOT tighten the grub into the thread, that'll jam the stick. See the manual if you're confused.
@@RedKiteRender That was it. I backed if off too much thinking I was going to hit the threads and I need to tighten the collar more. Problem solved. Thanks a ton. The "directions" are a bit misleading.
Would you say the Super Libra base is still superior to the Orion 2 base? I believe the latter has a better center detent mechanism.
I'm leaning in the direction of the Orion 2 over the libra at the moment.
Ciao Red, maybe replacing the cams or the springs is possible to achieve the feelings as warbrd?
You can achieve a similar feeling, but it'll never be quite as smooth as the Virpil design. Still a great base though, esp vs say, thrustmaster's one.
@@RedKiteRender ah thank you. i have the warthog now...coming from x56 this is fantastic... i tried the old warbrd few days ago and WOW what a precision! but i have interest too in orion 2 because can give the possibility to fly helicopters well
@@nilsrossi4217 If i'm not mistaken the WarBRD 2 (released about 5? months ago) has a damper setup available similar to the Orion 2
@@RedKiteRender i think yes
@@RedKiteRender Ciao Here is Nils ^^ from nerd account.. after your videos i m thinking to buy the orion2 with f15 ex II and f16stick +shaker.. i think is very good kit
Are the thrust master F-16 & F/A-18 sticks compatible with the new Orion base?
Nope, well, you can, but you've got to buy a modification kit and manually modify the stick.
Do you know of any mounts that can support the stock base? Or will I have to swap it out, or DIY?
Any mount that supports a TM Warthog stick will support the Orion 2
2:35 have you tested the vkb gunfighter?
Unfortunately no, not personally.
Is this item available to purchase?
whats the range of motion on the warbrd
+-22 degrees
Did your Orion 2 comes with the additional springs and dampers or were those a separate purchase? Mine arrived and didn’t have any
They're a separate purchase.
@@RedKiteRender ok great thank you!
If you get sent the winwing F18 DDIs and UFC are you gonna try and get a monstertech mount created for it or not, I have no clue if you use monstertech or not, but with all the new stuff their putting out, I am seriously considering getting a MTS rig at this point, and just
Not having to worry about pushing my pedals away from me
I wasn't aware MT have made a mount for it?
@@RedKiteRender my question is are you gonna work with Mt to get it made?
@@MCD10000 I've not got any ties to MT
@@RedKiteRender from what I have heard they will happily work with pretty much anyone, and it will always be nice to see people who get early access to new products approach them, so the main stream people don't have to wait as long as they would of
Red, how long it took to receive the package?
Just over a week.
Does anyone know if this stick uses Hall effect sensors or potentiometers?
Hall sensors
Thanks
HOW IN THE WORLD U HAVE THE NEW MODEL??? impressive do u have the new UFC panel too??? Dont lie….
I will most likely receive the UFC + panel when it's ready. I review hardware for them, so get advanced access just before release.
what is the throw degrees in the warbird base?
-+22 degrees
@@RedKiteRender awesome!
How long did it take to deliver
just over a week
I want to know, Libra or Orion 2 base - what are the differences, pro's and con's? I wish the had parts schematics, at least I could compare that.
I would get the Orion 2 over the Libra, unless you plan on using a long extension.
@@RedKiteRender Thanks, I am going to use the addon extension, but they now show the Orion2 base as compatible with the extension. I also noticed under the description of the cams/springs that you can double up on them. Maybe that's needed for the extension?
Do the jiggle test. Pull to one side and let it go please.
What's a 'good' result for the jiggle test? / What are you looking for in doing that? Because the setup will dramatically change the 'jiggle' (like soft centres slowing it)
@@RedKiteRender need to see how it centers.
So are you interested in how accurately it stops back at the axis centre, or are you interested in how much wobble it has before settling at the centre?
I'll be sure to include a 'wobble test' for you in the review video later on. I've not had any issues with axis centre feel or return from my standpoint so far on stock setup.
@@RedKiteRender I think he is after the "kickback" from the wobble, which is detrimental to accuracy as much as the center vs soft center issue. VPC bases (and Orion 1) are clutchless, and that is a huge problem for most of us. Nyogel 767a on clutches with a no center or soft center cam is IMO better than anything by a LONG shot. I also don't think the "smooth" description you are using is accurate, the full range can be smooth and still have a center bump/crossover, which are both a better terms.
My sidestick currently is a VKB GF with the old 10 cams (no center progressive) and clutches and a VKB GF center stick with extension and soft progressives with clutches. I also have an MT50 VPC base, and it's also no center cams, but the wobble makes it WAAAAAAAAY less accurate VS either of the VKB bases I use. So much so I just can't or won't use the VPC in any capacity. I also used a WarBRD for a short time, I found it inferior to all of the bases because of the lack of clutches (otherwise it would be fine).
Now this (wobble and push back) might not be an issue if your doing most of your manuevering at center or not doing much "gunfighting", but as a primarily WW2 to jets (I don't fly the ones with fly-by-wire often), having that wobble is such an issue. It's worse than the center breakout issues of the Warthog gimble during a fight . During refuel etc I would 100% agree that the no center wobble is perfectly good and much better than a terrible center. Softs, though, don't really effect accuracy the same way hard centers do, though. Warthog has a hard center. Cam designs also have "crossover", which the Warthog does not, it just has center breakout from the "ball" style gimbal. The old CH Fighterstick had hard center / crossover. None of the gimbals with cams have "bad" breakout or crossover with the soft cams, though.
@@RedKiteRender Also this (clutches) is why so many of us are excited about the Orion 2, finally another option to the VKB Gunfighter series, which gives several more options. I personally don't like the feel of the TM Warthog or F18, and find the WW switches etc to feel superior to the TM ones on the grip.
jfc... can they copy virpil any harder?
You mean like Virpil's 'force sensing, damper kit or modular designs'? It's not a direct copy. They're innovating.
@@RedKiteRender the warbrd base is modular. I can use any virpil stick on mine. I had constellation deltas then moved to the alpha sticks. Seamless. The force sensing is non existing as yet. And from the way you described it I would never want that. The dampening doesn't sound horrible. Maybe. But this is still a straight up copy. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
Every single major base has swappable handles. I think you're being unfair with this 'it's a straight copy' even WW's F-16 stick has a vibration motor, again a unique feature. Force sensing not being ready yet doesn't devalue the fact they're doing it.
It's iterative improvements and new experiments in design, not copycat.
the page says it comes with a shake kit. What is that?
I think the shake kit is referring to the little vibration motor inside the F-16ex handle? The translations WW do can be a little difficult to parse sometimes.
@@RedKiteRender Really thanks for the reply. And the last one if possible. Do you know if the dampers to act as helicopters come with the product not paying anymore? I saw in the page that it seems as 40$ or so, but don't know if they are just for replacement. Thanks!
The cam/spring/damper kit is a separate purchase
@@RedKiteRender I see.. Thanks!
@@RedKiteRender yeah, trying to read WinWing documentation is kind of like trying to watch “Das Boot” after it’s been translated from German to English via Spanish and Mandarin😀
Travel is 17° as stated in the manual... SHORT!
Its BS in my opinion they didn't offer a upgrade for Libra which is what got them started smart play WINWING!!!
An this is why I have canceled my order for the F-16 I going to order VKB warbird instead has more options in my opinion for other games.
they gave you that free? tf
Its called marketing
Hello, are you still using the joystick? Would you say VPC WarBRD is better overall? I'm torn between the VPC WarBRD-D and Orion 2.
The WarBRD-D has the advantage, but they're not terribly far off. The Joystick handles available for each vary, and are not cross compatible, so take at look at both side's offerings (TM sticks also work on Vripil) I would say the Virpil wins, unless you want a specific WW handle (like the vibrating F16EX)