The greatest part of this game is no matter what character you choose to play as out of the 3, the other 2 will screw you over in both story and gameplay. It's an incredible mechanic
@@bringinthedope5929 Ice-Pick Lodge said they are working on the Bachelor story-line, but haven't set a date for it. Hopefully next year, but right now we just don't know.
Thank you for letting me be a part of this, and helping with this. I hope this is the start of future analytical looks at Slavic, Russian, and Stepps culture and psychology. Something far too often misunderstood and neglected.
Please be the harbinger for more analytical looks at Slavic, Russian, and Steppe culture. This game literally opened my eyes to a world of mythology, superstitions and customs I was completely unaware of and thoroughly fascinated by.
@Savage the Wild I recommend you check Laurus by Eugene Vodolazkin. great book, a true journey through the Russian christian ethos with some pagan twists On the subject of free will vs determinism Dostoyesvski is a must read. I recommend "The Idiot" especially
I’m so glad you are finally talking about pathologic. In the discussion of the most profound moments in video games, Pathologic 1 and 2 provide not one but several candidates. I’m still playing P2, but from P1 the moments that come to mind are. 1. The “there is a top in utopia” monologue might be one of the most honest and impressive critiques of communism I’ve ever read and it’s from a video game 2. The first time you enter the polyhedron as the bachelor 3. Day 10 as the bachelor. Your conversation with Victor and Georgiy, but also not. (I don’t want to spoil it) 4. “Do you know the lines?”. A truly awesome double meaning 5. Day 11 as the Haruspex. 6. Day 10 and Day 11 as Clara 7. The powers that be reveal as each character 8. The people who executed the whole thing conversation as each character.
This game hits different in 2020-21. It's even more of a masterpiece. Some people say they can't enjoy it anymore. But for some reason, I've found it incredibly comforting throughout the pandemic.
Yeah. I especially love that they caught it's all a fucking narrative in the end and whole world is the stage. Also the progress versus tradition aspect, with the utopians and the kin conflict, is the defining tension of our time. The original russian name Plague:Utopia maked it even more clear, for it conveys the same message, that elites have been on and on during the pandemic - it is a great opportunity, it can be catalyst for change for the (solely in their eyes) better.
Actually has a lot. Russia was a Christian country- because Christians didn’t say alcohol was bad to a degree. But take the quote “a doctor can cure all but for himself and when he is sick he sends for another doctor.” - studies on pessimism. Other concepts like plato’s theater and the one Arthur of ‘studies on pessimism’ also says. I’m not too familiar with Plato tho, so not 100% certain if that’s his. The worse thing I’ve seen is when people try and say ‘oh hey see this guy owns a business so it’s a ist or ism’ despite the fact the business and houses on a regular can be removed and destroyed by the Khan house hold as shown, much less we have price controls and schedules given as shown by the kid telling you about the price increases on schedule. This follows through with other historic notes and is just a pretty bad thing overall. Then we get the Noble native myth actually leaning into the perception of the people. Go down to the house and spend lots of time around them and keep note. Openly talk about wiping out the town, aggression, and inside the building we find that they kill each other on the regular to ‘not split’ them up. The town really is too big on its own merit as it only produces meat to ship- this meat is imported by the steppe, they may make carvings and other stuff and they have a very good reason for some of the things they do but it’s only by a single railway and they don’t seem to leave at all outside of a few of them, this very much limits their ability to trade and so on given their size. We can see some of the issues with the abandoned factory- then the town official sponsored buildings all over the place I ruins leading to the crystal tower in the sky (Notes from the underground) I would suggest reading the wealth of nations to see a criticism of mercantilism as was common at this time and what the time period was likely on. The steppe likely were much poorer and when trading for things likely no longer produced by the town, via the abandoned factory. They already became dependent on the town as a trade source that supported growth in the places they lived. See this in real life; people who value traditionalism and stability are proud of tariffs and so on- but when historic places like japan when no wars happened in 250 years- but their tech became a disaster and no economic growth- then resentment when a nation arrived and conquered them. The ones that value that denied the reasons there was no development in those areas, but praise other things. Those that value equality and often cite families, and Christ don’t get the idea that those cannot be blown up to a government level. A single person can only know 400ish people in their life personally, and now add in ‘I know a guy’ you get 800 more to a total of 1,200 if you go I know a guy from two angles. How far can a ‘I know a guy who knows a guy’ go before you can’t even care? If we split that up to 2 sides of the town we roughy get to 4,800 people in the circle (2 way each) and that’s about as far as I can see it going. Now how many ‘I know a guy who knows a guy’ can you get into a multi million population nation? So if someone wants a state/society that loves them and cares they would have to be 5,000ish in size- but then we get some of those people wanting it 8 billion in size and it’s just not possible. At that point the government/state only sees groups and power. Then we get individualists or freedom lovers that don’t want taxes, subsidizes or so on and are fine with consequences, and the risk of loosing years of work. This is the trichotomy of values, or the political trichotomy. People think if you mix them together you can get a perfect balance but they’re mutually exclusive and the world is not perfectly balanced as neither is the universe. Those that value equality cannot be large without loosing the love of those in charge. Those that value stability cannot advance or change drastically- academic agent’s video ‘a positive vision for the right’ or just look at the Amish. Those that value freedom roughly can’t fall back on a faceless state if they loose it all These are trade offs or as fma puts it: equivalent exchange. The town lives a life dependent on the outside but never thought to maintain or expand it’s reach. The steppe likely lived their lives similar to how the town did in its early days- then when the town started trading likely factory made equipment and so on they stopped going to other further trades and ether became too accustomed to the town, or too hostile for others to accept them. There was a island with seagulls, and when fishermen pulled in shrimp nets onto their boats the gulls would pick the food out of the nets and this went on for generations. Eventually the shrimping boats stopped arriving and the gulls forgot how to feed from the fish in the sea. The gulls grew dependent on the fishing boats. The steppe grew dependent on the town. The town grew dependent on a single railway. The steppe don’t understand that their quills prick people and neither do the other people, but they seek each other for warmth and harm each other with their quills, instead of staying a distance away just enough for warmth they get up close.
I don't like how you represented the Kin as "unconscious cogs" of the machine. I feel that while one is a part of the whole and that the self does not exist, that does not make them unconscious.
I highly agree with this. I never felt that this game is dismissing collectivism and connection with nature like that. Selflessness is not mindlessness.
It is not him who said about that. Start to speak with the kin and in one day they would ask they lady, how to through away they I? I think it is in 5 day or 6, they are mindless, they want to be like that. That is also why, they do not see death like we do and the girl can allow you to make sacrifice of her, because she would be a grass. If you are no one, you have no consciousness, you cannot die, because you have no conciousneas, you are just like every other being. I think for us it is dificult to understand, because we think about ourself as individual, but think about it like a virus or bacteria, there is no I, so we cannot say, that bacteria have died, only if all bacteria are dead, they are dead, but if some live, they are live a life like a whole. :) I think you can see that in Asians, Muslims, they are living as whole, there is no I there. Everything is wrote for them, they know what to do, there are no choices there, no pain of human with choice. :)
there are some analysis and reviews of pathologic, but not nearly enough. I haven't even played it but I'm interested in the lore and story. Thanks to hbomber and sulmatul.
I love how 2 years after subbing to you for appearing on my homepage talking about one of my favorite games ever (MGS2) you're now appearing on my homepage again with another of my favorite games ever.
Love, love, love this video. Glad to see the game getting further coverage. And in particular, coverage that goes into one of the things I like most about it. Well done.
Some of my favorite pieces of media are ones I don’t visit all-too-often, because they are a very uncomfortable journey to endure for the reward of the outcome, and I have to be in the right mood and the right frame of mind to be able to fully appreciate them. But even if a work of art ends up alienating audience members who don’t have the patience to endure the difficult part of it, if it’s finding it’s audience because it’s brave enough to stay true to itself and unyielding in the way it’s made and presented, then that alone is commendable! The main thing to bear in mind is to ask if it’s difficult for all the right reasons.
That's so true. I loved Pathologic 2 and it's probably one of my favourite games but I don't see myself replaying it ever again, I'm kind of surprised I even beat it once. As Max pointed out, it's not just a difficult game, it's emotionally draining.
I suggest the book: notes from the underground. Trust me the first chapter/introduction gives a perfect description that you may very well enjoy- especially with the time and setting this game takes place in.
Max, you may well be at your prime in making these videos! You're on a hot streak. And thanks for your earlier Tool video on their song 46 and 2, and Smashing Pumpkin's Bullet on Buttefly Wings video because you've introduced me to their songs and unique aesthetic and made me a fan of the more alternative and indie rock stuff. So thanks again!
Hi! Thank you for talking about this game, I am currently binge watching your channel and loving it. If you happen to ever read this comment and if no one in the 300 comments (which I’m not reading, my bad) recommended it to you, I highly recommend a novel “The Gray House” ( literally “The House, in which…”) by Armenian writer Mariam Petrosyan, it was written in russian and, to my knowledge, was translated to English. It’s a very curious young adult magical realism piece which shares striking similarities with Pathologic in the narrative, it’s a big, but quickly consumable piece.
Pathologic 1 really soured me on the series. My first couple of playthroughs where a disaster of confusion and then i looked up the walkthrough, it was as thick as a novel.
Honestly, purely based on the improvements to user experience I would say give pathologic 2 a try, while not inherently easier it is much easier to follow due to massive improvements in presentation and UX.
I would absolutely love to see the other videos and am so happy that you finally made one for Pathologic 2. I've beaten the game 4 times, and saved everyone twice; it IS reliably possible if you live out that archetype. The suffering is, ultimately, worth the reward. In my opinion, this is what Hideo Kojima attempted to make the "strand" genre for: bringing together a group of people by their connections, healing them, and caring for the greater whole of a community against impossible and even genocidal odds. It's depth is rivaled by only Silent Hill 2, and I can't wait to see more analysis. Where did the souls go for the Rat King? Is the sky a symbol of the urdurgh that we all live within or is Bos Turokh simply a metaphor for the self and how everyone is an extension of you? I can't wait man.
yeah doesn't work mate people can be very stupid, how about read what they've written from both instead so you can actually understand what's going on?
I'm always curious what inspires the creators of certain pieces of art. Like in the case of Pathologic 2, I wonder if some of the writers were theater kids who later got into philosophy and just wrote what the knew when coming up with the ideas in this game. It's such an interesting mishmash of ideas that there has to be some kind of thread to follow where it all just comes together perfectly.
I started to understand pathologic more after i tried to formulate what a game is. If you think about when you play any game you play a role, and theater is just a specific form of game. Maybe it stems from the same thought process. Also, first pathologic had a true ending (spoilers, duh): You find out that the whole town and plague, etc, is just a kid's game. You transferred to children who play with town that made from sand in the sandbox. And you can talk to these kids, who were the gods of this imaginary world. They ask you, the player, was you upset that all of this "wasn't real", if you say you was, they point out that you already knew it's wasn't real, since you know you are playing the game, how it's less real now than it was. I think these games are a commentary on the theme of "play" in all it's meanings
@@alexkozliayev9902 Pathologic 2 has this children, too, watching you from the intro to the last day, in the dreams, on the streets. Haruspex just was never supposed to be in the Polyhedron in the first place, so they had fixed it in remake and left this meeting to the other characters. Who in turn, I assume, would never visit Abattior and won't hear the voice of the Steppe.
Well we don't have theater kids in Russia but you are right in a sense because some of the devs did have theatrical background. Also Mark Imortell references Artonin Artaud and theatre of cruelty seems to be a big influence. There are also direct quotes from Rilke and Brodsky so basically everything the guys were reading at the time was thrown in :D
Little bit of necroposting, but still. Aside from the theatre, there is a part in Dostoyevsky's "Crime and Punishment" epilogue chapter (written essentially several dozens of years before game supposedly takes place, and century before Dubovsky was born), which described protagonist's fever dream and foreshadowed huge chunk of Pathologic's plot - free steppe folk, the plague, the eastern steppe, and deadly divide among humans. Considering that Dostoevsky is mandatory read in russian schools and Dubovsky's unfinished degree in philology, I'm absolutely sure it is connected.
A fantastic take on a true gem of interactive story-telling! I finished P2 last week, but only after using the new feature that allows you to adjust the difficulty to 'larvea' and I actually think I cheated myself out of a deeper experience because the game became really easy by the end. Still, this is an amazing piece of art that still has so, so much to ponder about. Would love to see you make more videos on Pathologic 2. Perhaps on the idea of the town itself being a living being, or (as you mentioned) the plague seeming to have a consciousness and will of its own.
Pathologic is one of those games that it’s more fun to talk about than to play!, also the channel Hbomberguy made an incredible video about the original game and the 3 stories that intertwined with the town. This game have so many layers of analysis. Great video!!
Spread the word. Originally there were two more main characters planned, which each are basically standalone full playthrough experiences but all interwoven with the grand narrative, however from a very different experience and with different mechanics. However due to disappointing sales after the first "episode" (so to speak) the development these other two storylines became uncertain. This dev team deserves every bit of support they can get imo.
@@PhilipTheBird It's such a shame how often that happens with some fantastic projects. I feel it's a failure in the marketing aspect when a game that clearly can gather a good audience only does so after it gets shelved and a "cult following" starts and word of mouth sells it to the already existing crowd of possible fans. I had never heard of a game like that despite looking for games like that all over all the time, maybe I'm a bad searcher too yeah, but if it was better marketed I'm sure the studio and dev team would be in a much better spot financially.
The percentage of players that finished the game now (October 2021) shows on Steam 6.6%, up 0.5 from the 6.1% you showed while making this video (Sept 2021). So given the small timeframe, a small statistical supposition makes me think you may have had a hand in helping increase the number of "chosen ones" that went all the way :). This was a great and thoughtful analysis, thank you I also did a deep dive analysis on the vital link between the game's difficulty, gameplay and themes, trying to popularize it in my native tongue playerbase on a review site. If you or whoever so wishes to read it, I can share the link as a comment. I think that playing Pathologic is like stepping into an alchemical chamber; not only for reflecting but in-acting and thus stirring changes in the player (interestingly dissociated from "you" through the simple act of referring to it - a technique also called "brechtian distance"). The game takes an unique stand on how gameplay can affect players (and viceversa), keeping immersion in check while constantly assaulting the 4th wall. There are many important themes related to Russian literary themes, philosophical movements and native steppe folklore in the game, interwoven in a somewhat antimodernist framework (think "We" by Evgheny Zamyatin). So yea, there's a lot of good stuff, references and things to learn from this game. Cheers and looking foward to future videos
You should REALLY cover the profound Story End/Endings of No Man's Sky. Even though there are multiple endings in the game and it takes a while to complete, The story of No Man's Sky delves deep into some really big meanings that ask questions like "what if the life you live is Fake?" Or "Do you have free will?" And my favorite "if you could erasing your intire past and Start again would you?" It's a game I could see you getting into seeing how you like games that after playing them they change your point of view on life or at the very least change the way you think. I've loved your content for years now Eh and have been REALLY wanting see you break down No Man's Sky's real deeper meaning at the End (Keep up the great content Eh 😁✌)
Pathologic 2 is not hard. It's stressful. The game mechanics themselves aren't particularly complex or require any manual dexterity. What makes the game stressful is how it forces you to invest in the world and the characters, then makes it nigh impossible to save them all unless you read an optimal pathing guide.
Hey man... I have to be! To keep up with the algorithm and to satisfy my supporters. As long as I am in the good graces of the latter, I'll be happy to do this as long as I can. :D
So glad you got around to this game Max! Love your interpretation! I've been a fan of Ice Pick Lodge since they released 'The Void' . I stepped into Ice Picks worlds with no intoduction and found the whole experience intriguing, difficult, ethereal and sombre in that order. Although dated and slightly sparse (content wise) compared to the studios newer works, The Void dealt with similar issues around free will, and ones perception of light/dark good/evil. Both great games from a great studio. That said you are not wrong regarding the difficulty! I haven't finished Pathologic 2 and only managed to finish The Void after many playthroughs and finally using a game guide.
There is one thing that will save the town, you and practically break the mechanics. Swevery. The herb that grows in the steppes? I'm serious. It makes Medrel+ tinctures. With those you can delve into infected houses easily, with those you can prophylax everyone, with those you can reveal disease symptoms efficiently, with those you can become fucking rich from the valuables you find to the point money becomes worthless dross. Just go out each night past day 2 to the old villiage and pick each glowing herb you find and raid the villiage herb patches, and even better? They regenerate. Also, a hidden mechanic is that each organ kind has it's own hidden effect on different potions. If you make 2 medrel painkillers from healthy livers, you can chug two of those and rest in two hours the exhaustion worth of six.
Every time I discover new content about Pathologic it's pure gold, and this is no exception. This is a fantastic video, really interesting discussion about the relationship between difficulty and narrative as well as some great points about the kin, I think this is the most concise explanation of their beliefs I've ever seen. That's an instant subscribe from me, I'd love to see you talk more about Pathologic and I look forward to checking out your other videos. Also, you pronounced executor as 'EXecutor', whereas I and every other video I've watched so far pronounced it 'exECutor'. That difference suddenly changes the meaning of the name for me and is making me completely re-evaluate their role in the game.
Yay! I remember voting for Max to cover Pathologic 2 (or did I write it in the comments?)! Same developers made The Void - another performance of a game with a unique world and mechanics
You mean The Void ..as in harvesting color in dying landscape and gifting it to sisters o.O ? Wow..if we mean the same game, i never realized this...although i haven't finished it The Void is one of my favorite games of all times...it is unique...and dreamy...
This has to be the most flawed, mistaken, arbitrary analysis of Pathologic 2 I've ever seen. It feels the analyst tried to force his own whimsical take and forced it into the game, and not really backing it up. It also shows his lack of knowledge of the lore, which I can understand because it's very complex and needs a lot of careful attention and time to know, but his tone is of authority. I'll give you props spreading the word of this masterpiece. But damn you talk a lot for someone who hasn't gotten the jist of it.
Pathologic 2 is the best i've ever played. It's the perfect example of complete immersiveness. Imagine doubling down and making a budget game like this. Where not only you die and get penalized. But also is hard. BUT ALSO CAN MISS THE BEST EVENTS IN THE GAME. These game is a masterpiece. Period.
I feel like I am proud I've never ever felt this game as difficult. The only hard part for me was to get what the hell was actually going on in the plot. That and reading all those walltexts in english (not my mothertongue)
Amazing video! I’d love to see more analysis of this game since its one of my favorite & pretty niche so there’s not much coverage on it yet there’s so much to say.
I believe there's another layer to the theater and Burakh being "freer than others" although still pulled by the strings of a god in that the player is controlling Burakh. Burakh is freer, yet is still constrained to what the player does. In some way you are trying to act, you play the role of Burakh in the play. In this sense, Mark embodies the devs. He gave you the role of the protagonist, and gave roles to the other characters. You, as the player, may or may not be fit to play the role. From this point of view, overcoming death has several meanings. When you die, you are still alive, since you are just playing a game after all. In another sense, you are trying to overcome the difficulty of the game and the challenge designed by the devs. At the same time, you are also trying to beat death, meaning you are trying to save as many people as possible. I feel like "threes" in this game are important. There's Bones, Blood and Nerves. The player is the Nerve, the Blood is Burakh and the Bones is the game.
Yes, that's what I thought! I also kind of understood Bad Grief's breakdown to be about him realizing that he is a charachter in a game. That's what the Inquisitor seems to be going on about, too, that Burakh is free or at the very least more free than everyone else. Because, well, he's a PC and not an NPC.
easily one of the best stories in any game ever. its deep but it also changes its meaning depending on how you look at it, and who you hear it from. its a story that knows its truth and merely shows you a small bit and wants you to fall in love with the rest of it. also the game isnt that hard, you just have to learn its systems. ive played it on max difficulty settings and beat it with no deaths and no npcs dying of plague a “perfect” run. i have over 500 hours in the game. i could beat it with my eyes closed because it actaully isnt hard, it is just oppressive. if you learn how to play it the way it doesnt want you to, you can cheese the difficulty until it becomes rather easy
Why do I love games that torture me? Franz Kafka famously said that a book should be an axe for the frozen sea inside of us. Pathologic 2 is not a book but it's a hell of an icebreaker.
Been waiting for this one. Just got off work, time to crack a brew and stay yellow. Edit:. Just finished both the video and the brew and I gotta say another excellent video. I loved that you had a take on this game that I had not heard before. Thanks for taking a swing at it and sharing your thoughts.
Hey Max. I was wondering if you could do a specific video on Siblings and how said bonds change when you get older. I haven’t seen too many videos on the concept and I think it would be interesting to explore a bit.
Ok guess i'm cutting the video at 2:40 then. I want to love Pathologic 2, but i just haven't been able to get in to it yet. Guess i'll give it another shot, then watch this. I have a feeling that once you get past the threshold of the game, it'll become a more enjoyable experience but i feel like you just get completely blitzed with information and mechanics when you start the game, and it's very easy to get swamped/lost. That said, i'm almost certain that there is something special in there. It just takes some perceverance to get to it.
quick tips: 1. avoid combat. go into shops to drop aggro 2. barter > shops 3. stock up on food early before prices go to hell/sell excess twyre when they're worth triple at BH 4. do hospital quests 5. check caches it's seriously not that difficult of a game, but adjusting to the mechanics when coming from other games takes a bit. you can easily do a deathless run on intended difficulty with those tips glhf :) hope you can power through
@@T0RSE Thanks for the tips. Will keep that in mind next time i take a stab at this. It's not that the game is difficult as such (not that difficult games particularly scare me though), i think it's more that after a certain point i just ended up feeling lost in this town, with a brunch of mechanics i didn't really understand and unsure of what to do next. That's the kind of scenario where i easily put a game down "for now", with the intention of returning in a day or two, but then never really get to it. Probably because it feels like such a daunting task to just get to grips with it.
Everything in Pathologic is confirmed to be just the invention of two children playing pretend in their garden. That's canonically what everything in Pathologic is.
Pathologic is such a cool and unique game. Like a lot of good art it is teetering on the edge of pretentiousness without ever falling over, like how the most interesting tastes come from food that is right on the edge of being disgusting.
I love this analysis, and you bring up a lot of interesting points i havent considered before! But I have to politely disagree about the added difficulty slider. You are absolutely right that the game is at it's best when you're starving, suffering, and desperate, but where that point is is different for all people. Seasoned gamers(tm) might need to play at 150 or 200% difficulty to experience the game in the same way you did, while other people cannot play the game at intended difficulty and can complete it with the exact same emotional & narrative experience as you did at an easier level.
Agreed! I played the first game and it was living hell so I'm glad they added the sliders in the second one even if I used them only a couple of times to get me through hard points.
I would love your take on Darkwood, a great polish """survival""" (This term is used so much it barely means anything at this point) Horror Game that has a special place for numerous reasons in my heart. I would love to listen to your takes and angles on it with your buttery voice. But for the love of god, please finish everything planned already first. (Especially my guilty pleasure Pathologic 2). Uhm.. Cheers?
Why do parts of these clips (15:02, 12:28, and 3:24) sound like stuff from Fredrick Neichze's Philosophy books? Also this part at 3:48 reminds me of the Neichzean Übermench.
It's strange to think I managed to play this game through, twice. Even managing to have an excess of coin, food and TWO guns (somehow) by the end of the second playthrough. I'm a sucker for things like Chernobyl, Plague dogs, Watership down, When the wind blows, all that good stuff. I feel that Pathologic 2 captures the general feeling those films / series tried to portray, only in a way that felt real, as if it was your own true experience.
As someone who would definitely struggle with playing a game like this, I truly cannot play it. I know my limits and prefer not to overstep to the point of anger fueled insanity or tears. I've only ever attempted Dark Souls once in my life during college, and didn't even get past the Asylum Demon. Now it was the tv's crappy gamma that screwed me over as I couldn't see the door I was supposed to flee through. But watching the gameplay over the years & that experience have kept me away to this day. I only ever grabbed the game because the 'git gud' & 'why are you talking about if you haven't played it' crowds guiltripped me into believing I wasn't worthy of the game's lore if I wouldn't play it. So against my better judgement I bought the first Dark Souls out of that guilt and a need to feel worthy of the game's lore. I have never encountered the 'git gud' folks but heard too many stories, I have however met people who asked me why I was discussing a certain game series if I haven't played it. The game series in question being Legacy of Kain, which honestly shocked me really. I don't play the series because I'm dead certain it would break me. I struggle with puzzles in games at times & the platformer genre(I know this as I have played the original Spyro and really struggle with it & despite loving Hidden/Scattered Object games, their puzzles really do anger me sometimes. At least those you can skip.) Anyways...in the encounter with the Legacy of Kain fans I panicked and tried to explain myself only to be given unsolicited advice on how to get or play them and ultimately I felt cornered. Didn't help that their replies were something I woke up to, causing me to type out the most confusing shit out of panic. Finally I just deleted my original comment( a simple joke mocking Blood Omen 2 since many others mocked it too and I just felt like adding in to it a little for fun), as I just couldn't take it anymore. From what I recall, I haven't commented on the channel since then out of fear I'll run into those people again. If I have, it wasn't on any LOK vids. Not naming the channel to prevent trouble for anyone. I tell these stories to show why I believe a storyteller mode in games would be wonderful. We could play the games and not have to care what the pros think, and the pros can keep their difficulty as they see fit. I don't believe difficulty should be removed, I simply wish there was a compromise you know? Maybe then I'd no longer have to worry about people cornering me or making me feel unworthy of a good story behind a game I can't play. Now the storyteller mode idea wouldn't work for all games obviously, but hey imo a compromise would be better than nothing. Better than being cornered by people who swear by playing games before you're allowed to discuss them, or the 'git gud' crowd yelling at me(looking at the toxic league players) or poke fun. I can handle poking fun at myself or from my friends, but strangers who will never know me is a different story. Forgive my jumbled rambling, just wanted to point that out is all. Will update upon completing the vid, despite feeling a tad unworthy of it now.
OP, I understand your pain. When I was a child, I was restricted - never allowed to play video games because it was a "waste of time" to the parents. In my adulthood, I became too disabled to play video games. Sure, I can stomach heavy themes, but trying to get a sense of direction is oppressively difficult, my reflexes are ridiculously slow, I can't handle various game aspects like shaky screen, small text, fast animation, effects and bright colors, etc.. The last game I tried playing was Deltarune Chapter 2, and I was so sad that I couldn't even finish it (the "arcade minigame" was where my disability completely betrayed me). So, seeing "git gud" crowds can be annoying. Pathologic, and other games with difficulty sliders, sidestep this issue, though Pathologic and Celeste are games that notably does *not* mock people for using easier difficulties. That's a first step, even if I'll never play those two games specifically.
correction: Pathologic 2 has a difficulty slider, not 1 also, I can understand you, being poked fun by friends is fun but not by strangers. Sometimes people like that forget that not everyone grew up playing video games, huh? Sending you solidarity, OP.
Hey Max. I would love to see your thoughts on Outer Wilds in the future. I think the world needs your analysis on this kind of games and movies. There are some good analysis on Pathologic 2, but none of them couldn't give me this insight on it as your video. So thank you, stay yellow.
I haven't finished the game yet, but I think one idea presented is the coexistence of opposites within everything. Aspity tells you at one point that your father's will was to make the kin and townsfolk mingle, to 'make the body whole'. Individualism and the pursuit of high minded ideals, collectivism and the connection with the earth you walk on, these are both things that have to exist in a healthy society and even in a single person. A body that contains many things.
The difficulty mostly comes from Pathologic 2 being designed as an anti-game (for lack of a better word). You have to unlearn several strategies that are used in pretty much every other game. Throwing yourself at a problem over and over will not work here. Every death makes the rest of the game incrementally harder. You have to accept the loss and move on from a much earlier point or start a new game. Once you learn this and a few other key tips, you will soon be looking for ways to increase the difficulty. love the vid, thanks for shining light on such an underrated game :)
This game is more.. narrative existential horror. There aren't any jumpscares or typical horror tropes. just unsettling environments/sounds/characters/ideas at most. just in case you were thinking of playing/finishing :) edit: nvm I just remembered, sometimes a birb materializes behind you when you aren't expecting him. asshole birb. but he's not a threat or attacking you or anything
The greatest part of this game is no matter what character you choose to play as out of the 3, the other 2 will screw you over in both story and gameplay. It's an incredible mechanic
is there a release date for future character stories?
@@bringinthedope5929 I'm not sure
@@bringinthedope5929 Not yet, no.
@@bringinthedope5929 Ice-Pick Lodge said they are working on the Bachelor story-line, but haven't set a date for it. Hopefully next year, but right now we just don't know.
They're working on the Bachelor route. It's been announced.
Thank you for letting me be a part of this, and helping with this. I hope this is the start of future analytical looks at Slavic, Russian, and Stepps culture and psychology. Something far too often misunderstood and neglected.
Please be the harbinger for more analytical looks at Slavic, Russian, and Steppe culture. This game literally opened my eyes to a world of mythology, superstitions and customs I was completely unaware of and thoroughly fascinated by.
This is great stuff. Dostoyevsky was mentioned on the channel I believe? Deeper dive into the russian classic literature would be appreciated
Any suggested sources to learn more?
@Savage the Wild I recommend you check Laurus by Eugene Vodolazkin. great book, a true journey through the Russian christian ethos with some pagan twists
On the subject of free will vs determinism Dostoyesvski is a must read. I recommend "The Idiot" especially
@@nyarlantothep9555 thank you!
I’m so glad you are finally talking about pathologic. In the discussion of the most profound moments in video games, Pathologic 1 and 2 provide not one but several candidates. I’m still playing P2, but from P1 the moments that come to mind are.
1. The “there is a top in utopia” monologue might be one of the most honest and impressive critiques of communism I’ve ever read and it’s from a video game
2. The first time you enter the polyhedron as the bachelor
3. Day 10 as the bachelor. Your conversation with Victor and Georgiy, but also not. (I don’t want to spoil it)
4. “Do you know the lines?”. A truly awesome double meaning
5. Day 11 as the Haruspex.
6. Day 10 and Day 11 as Clara
7. The powers that be reveal as each character
8. The people who executed the whole thing conversation as each character.
This game hits different in 2020-21. It's even more of a masterpiece. Some people say they can't enjoy it anymore. But for some reason, I've found it incredibly comforting throughout the pandemic.
Aged like fine wine
Same!!
Yeah. I especially love that they caught it's all a fucking narrative in the end and whole world is the stage. Also the progress versus tradition aspect, with the utopians and the kin conflict, is the defining tension of our time. The original russian name Plague:Utopia maked it even more clear, for it conveys the same message, that elites have been on and on during the pandemic - it is a great opportunity, it can be catalyst for change for the (solely in their eyes) better.
i think is the idea of people going to great lenghts to save others...
Oh yeah, the pandemic time is so briliant to go through the game. :)
I hadn't even considered the Christian undertones all too much, liked seeing where you took that!
Actually has a lot.
Russia was a Christian country- because Christians didn’t say alcohol was bad to a degree.
But take the quote “a doctor can cure all but for himself and when he is sick he sends for another doctor.”
- studies on pessimism.
Other concepts like plato’s theater and the one Arthur of ‘studies on pessimism’ also says.
I’m not too familiar with Plato tho, so not 100% certain if that’s his.
The worse thing I’ve seen is when people try and say ‘oh hey see this guy owns a business so it’s a ist or ism’ despite the fact the business and houses on a regular can be removed and destroyed by the Khan house hold as shown, much less we have price controls and schedules given as shown by the kid telling you about the price increases on schedule.
This follows through with other historic notes and is just a pretty bad thing overall.
Then we get the Noble native myth actually leaning into the perception of the people.
Go down to the house and spend lots of time around them and keep note.
Openly talk about wiping out the town, aggression, and inside the building we find that they kill each other on the regular to ‘not split’ them up.
The town really is too big on its own merit as it only produces meat to ship- this meat is imported by the steppe, they may make carvings and other stuff and they have a very good reason for some of the things they do but it’s only by a single railway and they don’t seem to leave at all outside of a few of them, this very much limits their ability to trade and so on given their size.
We can see some of the issues with the abandoned factory- then the town official sponsored buildings all over the place I ruins leading to the crystal tower in the sky (Notes from the underground)
I would suggest reading the wealth of nations to see a criticism of mercantilism as was common at this time and what the time period was likely on.
The steppe likely were much poorer and when trading for things likely no longer produced by the town, via the abandoned factory. They already became dependent on the town as a trade source that supported growth in the places they lived.
See this in real life; people who value traditionalism and stability are proud of tariffs and so on- but when historic places like japan when no wars happened in 250 years- but their tech became a disaster and no economic growth- then resentment when a nation arrived and conquered them. The ones that value that denied the reasons there was no development in those areas, but praise other things.
Those that value equality and often cite families, and Christ don’t get the idea that those cannot be blown up to a government level. A single person can only know 400ish people in their life personally, and now add in ‘I know a guy’ you get 800 more to a total of 1,200 if you go I know a guy from two angles.
How far can a ‘I know a guy who knows a guy’ go before you can’t even care?
If we split that up to 2 sides of the town we roughy get to 4,800 people in the circle (2 way each) and that’s about as far as I can see it going.
Now how many ‘I know a guy who knows a guy’ can you get into a multi million population nation?
So if someone wants a state/society that loves them and cares they would have to be 5,000ish in size- but then we get some of those people wanting it 8 billion in size and it’s just not possible. At that point the government/state only sees groups and power.
Then we get individualists or freedom lovers that don’t want taxes, subsidizes or so on and are fine with consequences, and the risk of loosing years of work.
This is the trichotomy of values, or the political trichotomy.
People think if you mix them together you can get a perfect balance but they’re mutually exclusive and the world is not perfectly balanced as neither is the universe.
Those that value equality cannot be large without loosing the love of those in charge.
Those that value stability cannot advance or change drastically- academic agent’s video ‘a positive vision for the right’ or just look at the Amish.
Those that value freedom roughly can’t fall back on a faceless state if they loose it all
These are trade offs or as fma puts it: equivalent exchange.
The town lives a life dependent on the outside but never thought to maintain or expand it’s reach.
The steppe likely lived their lives similar to how the town did in its early days- then when the town started trading likely factory made equipment and so on they stopped going to other further trades and ether became too accustomed to the town, or too hostile for others to accept them.
There was a island with seagulls, and when fishermen pulled in shrimp nets onto their boats the gulls would pick the food out of the nets and this went on for generations.
Eventually the shrimping boats stopped arriving and the gulls forgot how to feed from the fish in the sea.
The gulls grew dependent on the fishing boats.
The steppe grew dependent on the town.
The town grew dependent on a single railway.
The steppe don’t understand that their quills prick people and neither do the other people, but they seek each other for warmth and harm each other with their quills, instead of staying a distance away just enough for warmth they get up close.
Fascinating, this was one of the first things I notice upon the real ending, but I also had to grow up around Catholics
More videos on Pathologic are always nice to see! Good job!
I don't like how you represented the Kin as "unconscious cogs" of the machine. I feel that while one is a part of the whole and that the self does not exist, that does not make them unconscious.
I highly agree with this. I never felt that this game is dismissing collectivism and connection with nature like that. Selflessness is not mindlessness.
It is not him who said about that. Start to speak with the kin and in one day they would ask they lady, how to through away they I? I think it is in 5 day or 6, they are mindless, they want to be like that. That is also why, they do not see death like we do and the girl can allow you to make sacrifice of her, because she would be a grass. If you are no one, you have no consciousness, you cannot die, because you have no conciousneas, you are just like every other being. I think for us it is dificult to understand, because we think about ourself as individual, but think about it like a virus or bacteria, there is no I, so we cannot say, that bacteria have died, only if all bacteria are dead, they are dead, but if some live, they are live a life like a whole. :) I think you can see that in Asians, Muslims, they are living as whole, there is no I there. Everything is wrote for them, they know what to do, there are no choices there, no pain of human with choice. :)
You don't know how much this means to me that you analyzed this game. Sincerely thank you.
there are some analysis and reviews of pathologic, but not nearly enough. I haven't even played it but I'm interested in the lore and story. Thanks to hbomber and sulmatul.
My favorite game of all time. Way too underrated. Got both endings too, the difficulty makes it fun for me personally
oh cool, you are awesome)
Thank you for talking about this game
Thank YOU for watching.
Hell yeah! This game seemed like it was made for you to analyse, glad to see you getting to it!
I love how 2 years after subbing to you for appearing on my homepage talking about one of my favorite games ever (MGS2) you're now appearing on my homepage again with another of my favorite games ever.
Love, love, love this video. Glad to see the game getting further coverage. And in particular, coverage that goes into one of the things I like most about it. Well done.
Some of my favorite pieces of media are ones I don’t visit all-too-often, because they are a very uncomfortable journey to endure for the reward of the outcome, and I have to be in the right mood and the right frame of mind to be able to fully appreciate them. But even if a work of art ends up alienating audience members who don’t have the patience to endure the difficult part of it, if it’s finding it’s audience because it’s brave enough to stay true to itself and unyielding in the way it’s made and presented, then that alone is commendable! The main thing to bear in mind is to ask if it’s difficult for all the right reasons.
(2)
That's so true. I loved Pathologic 2 and it's probably one of my favourite games but I don't see myself replaying it ever again, I'm kind of surprised I even beat it once. As Max pointed out, it's not just a difficult game, it's emotionally draining.
I suggest the book: notes from the underground.
Trust me the first chapter/introduction gives a perfect description that you may very well enjoy- especially with the time and setting this game takes place in.
Max, you may well be at your prime in making these videos! You're on a hot streak. And thanks for your earlier Tool video on their song 46 and 2, and Smashing Pumpkin's Bullet on Buttefly Wings video because you've introduced me to their songs and unique aesthetic and made me a fan of the more alternative and indie rock stuff. So thanks again!
Hi! Thank you for talking about this game, I am currently binge watching your channel and loving it.
If you happen to ever read this comment and if no one in the 300 comments (which I’m not reading, my bad) recommended it to you, I highly recommend a novel “The Gray House” ( literally “The House, in which…”) by Armenian writer Mariam Petrosyan, it was written in russian and, to my knowledge, was translated to English. It’s a very curious young adult magical realism piece which shares striking similarities with Pathologic in the narrative, it’s a big, but quickly consumable piece.
Pathologic 1 really soured me on the series. My first couple of playthroughs where a disaster of confusion and then i looked up the walkthrough, it was as thick as a novel.
Honestly, purely based on the improvements to user experience I would say give pathologic 2 a try, while not inherently easier it is much easier to follow due to massive improvements in presentation and UX.
I would absolutely love to see the other videos and am so happy that you finally made one for Pathologic 2. I've beaten the game 4 times, and saved everyone twice; it IS reliably possible if you live out that archetype. The suffering is, ultimately, worth the reward. In my opinion, this is what Hideo Kojima attempted to make the "strand" genre for: bringing together a group of people by their connections, healing them, and caring for the greater whole of a community against impossible and even genocidal odds. It's depth is rivaled by only Silent Hill 2, and I can't wait to see more analysis. Where did the souls go for the Rat King? Is the sky a symbol of the urdurgh that we all live within or is Bos Turokh simply a metaphor for the self and how everyone is an extension of you? I can't wait man.
I had no idea what to expect going into this, but I'm glad i checked it out. This looks absolutely fascinating, thank you so much for sharing!
Спасибо за разбор и анализ, очень интересно)))
Кстати, разработчики игры артисты театра.
one of my favorite games of all time. have played through 2 times. probably time to revisit it! loved this take on the game, thanks for your thoughts.
NEVER look at the "critic" scores when deciding to get the game or not! ONLY look at user scores!
Always.
That's a perfect rule of thumb. Underrated comment!
yeah doesn't work mate people can be very stupid, how about read what they've written from both instead so you can actually understand what's going on?
@@dantegoat8568 I'd rather eat dirt than read kotaku, for example
Well this has to be one of the worst pieces of advice I've ever read.
I'm always curious what inspires the creators of certain pieces of art. Like in the case of Pathologic 2, I wonder if some of the writers were theater kids who later got into philosophy and just wrote what the knew when coming up with the ideas in this game. It's such an interesting mishmash of ideas that there has to be some kind of thread to follow where it all just comes together perfectly.
I started to understand pathologic more after i tried to formulate what a game is. If you think about when you play any game you play a role, and theater is just a specific form of game. Maybe it stems from the same thought process. Also, first pathologic had a true ending (spoilers, duh):
You find out that the whole town and plague, etc, is just a kid's game. You transferred to children who play with town that made from sand in the sandbox. And you can talk to these kids, who were the gods of this imaginary world. They ask you, the player, was you upset that all of this "wasn't real", if you say you was, they point out that you already knew it's wasn't real, since you know you are playing the game, how it's less real now than it was. I think these games are a commentary on the theme of "play" in all it's meanings
@@alexkozliayev9902 Pathologic 2 has this children, too, watching you from the intro to the last day, in the dreams, on the streets. Haruspex just was never supposed to be in the Polyhedron in the first place, so they had fixed it in remake and left this meeting to the other characters. Who in turn, I assume, would never visit Abattior and won't hear the voice of the Steppe.
Im pretty sure that's almost exactly the case with the devs
Well we don't have theater kids in Russia but you are right in a sense because some of the devs did have theatrical background. Also Mark Imortell references Artonin Artaud and theatre of cruelty seems to be a big influence. There are also direct quotes from Rilke and Brodsky so basically everything the guys were reading at the time was thrown in :D
Little bit of necroposting, but still.
Aside from the theatre, there is a part in Dostoyevsky's "Crime and Punishment" epilogue chapter (written essentially several dozens of years before game supposedly takes place, and century before Dubovsky was born), which described protagonist's fever dream and foreshadowed huge chunk of Pathologic's plot - free steppe folk, the plague, the eastern steppe, and deadly divide among humans. Considering that Dostoevsky is mandatory read in russian schools and Dubovsky's unfinished degree in philology, I'm absolutely sure it is connected.
A fantastic take on a true gem of interactive story-telling!
I finished P2 last week, but only after using the new feature that allows you to adjust the difficulty to 'larvea' and I actually think I cheated myself out of a deeper experience because the game became really easy by the end. Still, this is an amazing piece of art that still has so, so much to ponder about.
Would love to see you make more videos on Pathologic 2. Perhaps on the idea of the town itself being a living being, or (as you mentioned) the plague seeming to have a consciousness and will of its own.
Pathologic is one of those games that it’s more fun to talk about than to play!, also the channel Hbomberguy made an incredible video about the original game and the 3 stories that intertwined with the town. This game have so many layers of analysis. Great video!!
Pathologic fans always have something interesting to say about it, and Im always down to listen to em~
Another great video. Keep it up
well... damn. I've never even heard of this game. my interest is peaked. Buying it right... now!
Me too
Me neither, very interesting. 🙂
Spread the word. Originally there were two more main characters planned, which each are basically standalone full playthrough experiences but all interwoven with the grand narrative, however from a very different experience and with different mechanics.
However due to disappointing sales after the first "episode" (so to speak) the development these other two storylines became uncertain.
This dev team deserves every bit of support they can get imo.
@@PhilipTheBird It's such a shame how often that happens with some fantastic projects. I feel it's a failure in the marketing aspect when a game that clearly can gather a good audience only does so after it gets shelved and a "cult following" starts and word of mouth sells it to the already existing crowd of possible fans. I had never heard of a game like that despite looking for games like that all over all the time, maybe I'm a bad searcher too yeah, but if it was better marketed I'm sure the studio and dev team would be in a much better spot financially.
This game legit just said “skill issue”
9:41
“He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.”
- Samuel Johnson
12:16 - yep thats me. Only played for like 2 hours and quit the game. 2 Years later I try to give this game another chance
The percentage of players that finished the game now (October 2021) shows on Steam 6.6%, up 0.5 from the 6.1% you showed while making this video (Sept 2021). So given the small timeframe, a small statistical supposition makes me think you may have had a hand in helping increase the number of "chosen ones" that went all the way :). This was a great and thoughtful analysis, thank you
I also did a deep dive analysis on the vital link between the game's difficulty, gameplay and themes, trying to popularize it in my native tongue playerbase on a review site. If you or whoever so wishes to read it, I can share the link as a comment. I think that playing Pathologic is like stepping into an alchemical chamber; not only for reflecting but in-acting and thus stirring changes in the player (interestingly dissociated from "you" through the simple act of referring to it - a technique also called "brechtian distance"). The game takes an unique stand on how gameplay can affect players (and viceversa), keeping immersion in check while constantly assaulting the 4th wall. There are many important themes related to Russian literary themes, philosophical movements and native steppe folklore in the game, interwoven in a somewhat antimodernist framework (think "We" by Evgheny Zamyatin). So yea, there's a lot of good stuff, references and things to learn from this game.
Cheers and looking foward to future videos
You should REALLY cover the profound Story End/Endings of No Man's Sky. Even though there are multiple endings in the game and it takes a while to complete, The story of No Man's Sky delves deep into some really big meanings that ask questions like "what if the life you live is Fake?" Or "Do you have free will?" And my favorite "if you could erasing your intire past and Start again would you?"
It's a game I could see you getting into seeing how you like games that after playing them they change your point of view on life or at the very least change the way you think. I've loved your content for years now Eh and have been REALLY wanting see you break down No Man's Sky's real deeper meaning at the End
(Keep up the great content Eh 😁✌)
Thanks for the video man, you should try other Ice Pick Lodge games.
The Void is right up his alley too, for sure; though even more abusive in its gameplay
Pathologic 2 is not hard. It's stressful. The game mechanics themselves aren't particularly complex or require any manual dexterity. What makes the game stressful is how it forces you to invest in the world and the characters, then makes it nigh impossible to save them all unless you read an optimal pathing guide.
Hell yes please cover more of this, Max.
I love the way you analyze this game.
I too have a sensitive temperment. That is a nice way of phrasing it thank you.
You are a content machine latetly :-) happy to have this much content from you
Hey man... I have to be! To keep up with the algorithm and to satisfy my supporters. As long as I am in the good graces of the latter, I'll be happy to do this as long as I can. :D
I am enthusiastic for those additional videos.
Brilliant as always Max. I look forward to future Pathologic 2 content!
So glad you got around to this game Max! Love your interpretation! I've been a fan of Ice Pick Lodge since they released 'The Void' . I stepped into Ice Picks worlds with no intoduction and found the whole experience intriguing, difficult, ethereal and sombre in that order. Although dated and slightly sparse (content wise) compared to the studios newer works, The Void dealt with similar issues around free will, and ones perception of light/dark good/evil. Both great games from a great studio. That said you are not wrong regarding the difficulty! I haven't finished Pathologic 2 and only managed to finish The Void after many playthroughs and finally using a game guide.
Well, I guess I'm gonna be playing the game. I'll be back to watch the rest of the video. Thanks Max!
There is one thing that will save the town, you and practically break the mechanics. Swevery. The herb that grows in the steppes? I'm serious. It makes Medrel+ tinctures. With those you can delve into infected houses easily, with those you can prophylax everyone, with those you can reveal disease symptoms efficiently, with those you can become fucking rich from the valuables you find to the point money becomes worthless dross. Just go out each night past day 2 to the old villiage and pick each glowing herb you find and raid the villiage herb patches, and even better? They regenerate. Also, a hidden mechanic is that each organ kind has it's own hidden effect on different potions. If you make 2 medrel painkillers from healthy livers, you can chug two of those and rest in two hours the exhaustion worth of six.
Every time I discover new content about Pathologic it's pure gold, and this is no exception. This is a fantastic video, really interesting discussion about the relationship between difficulty and narrative as well as some great points about the kin, I think this is the most concise explanation of their beliefs I've ever seen. That's an instant subscribe from me, I'd love to see you talk more about Pathologic and I look forward to checking out your other videos.
Also, you pronounced executor as 'EXecutor', whereas I and every other video I've watched so far pronounced it 'exECutor'. That difference suddenly changes the meaning of the name for me and is making me completely re-evaluate their role in the game.
Excellent analysis Max!
This is my favoutite game ever and I think you're doing a fantastic job. Please consider making more Pathologic 2 videos.
Yay! I remember voting for Max to cover Pathologic 2 (or did I write it in the comments?)! Same developers made The Void - another performance of a game with a unique world and mechanics
There was a poll for it! You might have done both... vote in the poll and recommend it in the comments.
You mean The Void ..as in harvesting color in dying landscape and gifting it to sisters o.O ? Wow..if we mean the same game, i never realized this...although i haven't finished it The Void is one of my favorite games of all times...it is unique...and dreamy...
@@DreamskyDance Yes, this one
Yeah, it's called Turgor originally
This is beautiful and important work. Thank you for sharing.
I will be back after I play this. Thanks for the heads up.
Very happy to see you (or anyone for that matter) talk about this game.
Will you do more videos on this game? I hope so!
the most difficult part of this game if having it run without feeling like my computer will explode at any moment
This has to be the most flawed, mistaken, arbitrary analysis of Pathologic 2 I've ever seen.
It feels the analyst tried to force his own whimsical take and forced it into the game, and not really backing it up. It also shows his lack of knowledge of the lore, which I can understand because it's very complex and needs a lot of careful attention and time to know, but his tone is of authority.
I'll give you props spreading the word of this masterpiece. But damn you talk a lot for someone who hasn't gotten the jist of it.
I don't know weather or not it was my comment that got you to make this video, seeing this video made me happy regardless.
Love from the West Country
Pathologic 2 is the best i've ever played.
It's the perfect example of complete immersiveness. Imagine doubling down and making a budget game like this. Where not only you die and get penalized. But also is hard. BUT ALSO CAN MISS THE BEST EVENTS IN THE GAME. These game is a masterpiece. Period.
I feel like I am proud I've never ever felt this game as difficult. The only hard part for me was to get what the hell was actually going on in the plot. That and reading all those walltexts in english (not my mothertongue)
Amazing video! I’d love to see more analysis of this game since its one of my favorite & pretty niche so there’s not much coverage on it yet there’s so much to say.
I believe there's another layer to the theater and Burakh being "freer than others" although still pulled by the strings of a god in that the player is controlling Burakh.
Burakh is freer, yet is still constrained to what the player does. In some way you are trying to act, you play the role of Burakh in the play.
In this sense, Mark embodies the devs. He gave you the role of the protagonist, and gave roles to the other characters. You, as the player, may or may not be fit to play the role.
From this point of view, overcoming death has several meanings. When you die, you are still alive, since you are just playing a game after all. In another sense, you are trying to overcome the difficulty of the game and the challenge designed by the devs. At the same time, you are also trying to beat death, meaning you are trying to save as many people as possible.
I feel like "threes" in this game are important. There's Bones, Blood and Nerves. The player is the Nerve, the Blood is Burakh and the Bones is the game.
Yes, that's what I thought! I also kind of understood Bad Grief's breakdown to be about him realizing that he is a charachter in a game. That's what the Inquisitor seems to be going on about, too, that Burakh is free or at the very least more free than everyone else. Because, well, he's a PC and not an NPC.
easily one of the best stories in any game ever. its deep but it also changes its meaning depending on how you look at it, and who you hear it from. its a story that knows its truth and merely shows you a small bit and wants you to fall in love with the rest of it.
also the game isnt that hard, you just have to learn its systems. ive played it on max difficulty settings and beat it with no deaths and no npcs dying of plague a “perfect” run. i have over 500 hours in the game. i could beat it with my eyes closed because it actaully isnt hard, it is just oppressive. if you learn how to play it the way it doesnt want you to, you can cheese the difficulty until it becomes rather easy
Love the content man.
Great video as always man. I really want to see more Pathilogic 2 content from you!
I love that I can watch your videos at 1.75 speed and still enjoy them.
Your videos are fantastic!
Awesome youtuber + Awesome game = Doubley awesome video
Great video!
In fact in Russian it is not buraKK [k], but closer to [h] like in "hello" - [χ]
Heh, just noticed. When mentioning transcendence through the living blood, there's an advert for a plane, saying, "We're back in the air!".
The lines from the children of polyhedron are messages from developers btw
Why do I love games that torture me? Franz Kafka famously said that a book should be an axe for the frozen sea inside of us. Pathologic 2 is not a book but it's a hell of an icebreaker.
Been waiting for this one. Just got off work, time to crack a brew and stay yellow.
Edit:. Just finished both the video and the brew and I gotta say another excellent video. I loved that you had a take on this game that I had not heard before. Thanks for taking a swing at it and sharing your thoughts.
Hey Max. I was wondering if you could do a specific video on Siblings and how said bonds change when you get older. I haven’t seen too many videos on the concept and I think it would be interesting to explore a bit.
Ok guess i'm cutting the video at 2:40 then. I want to love Pathologic 2, but i just haven't been able to get in to it yet. Guess i'll give it another shot, then watch this.
I have a feeling that once you get past the threshold of the game, it'll become a more enjoyable experience but i feel like you just get completely blitzed with information and mechanics when you start the game, and it's very easy to get swamped/lost. That said, i'm almost certain that there is something special in there. It just takes some perceverance to get to it.
I'm not sure "enjoyable" is ever the adjective to use for this game.
Fascinating, interesting, unique, teaching, yes.
@@PhilipTheBird All of those things can be enjoyable :D
quick tips:
1. avoid combat. go into shops to drop aggro
2. barter > shops
3. stock up on food early before prices go to hell/sell excess twyre when they're worth triple at BH
4. do hospital quests
5. check caches
it's seriously not that difficult of a game, but adjusting to the mechanics when coming from other games takes a bit. you can easily do a deathless run on intended difficulty with those tips
glhf :) hope you can power through
@@T0RSE Thanks for the tips. Will keep that in mind next time i take a stab at this.
It's not that the game is difficult as such (not that difficult games particularly scare me though), i think it's more that after a certain point i just ended up feeling lost in this town, with a brunch of mechanics i didn't really understand and unsure of what to do next. That's the kind of scenario where i easily put a game down "for now", with the intention of returning in a day or two, but then never really get to it. Probably because it feels like such a daunting task to just get to grips with it.
@@RutabagaSwe fair enough!
the town was actually designed to be confusing and difficult to navigate :^)
Everything in Pathologic is confirmed to be just the invention of two children playing pretend in their garden. That's canonically what everything in Pathologic is.
Specifically after a funeral
I can listen to pathological stuff all day
thanks for making a video on pathologic 2
I think this is the only video I've seen about Pathologic that isn't at least one hour long
Pathologic is such a cool and unique game. Like a lot of good art it is teetering on the edge of pretentiousness without ever falling over, like how the most interesting tastes come from food that is right on the edge of being disgusting.
I love this analysis, and you bring up a lot of interesting points i havent considered before! But I have to politely disagree about the added difficulty slider. You are absolutely right that the game is at it's best when you're starving, suffering, and desperate, but where that point is is different for all people. Seasoned gamers(tm) might need to play at 150 or 200% difficulty to experience the game in the same way you did, while other people cannot play the game at intended difficulty and can complete it with the exact same emotional & narrative experience as you did at an easier level.
Agreed! I played the first game and it was living hell so I'm glad they added the sliders in the second one even if I used them only a couple of times to get me through hard points.
Man I haven't played this game in years, are there more characters besides the surgeon now?
I would love your take on Darkwood, a great polish """survival""" (This term is used so much it barely means anything at this point) Horror Game that has a special place for numerous reasons in my heart. I would love to listen to your takes and angles on it with your buttery voice.
But for the love of god, please finish everything planned already first. (Especially my guilty pleasure Pathologic 2).
Uhm.. Cheers?
Why do parts of these clips (15:02, 12:28, and 3:24) sound like stuff from Fredrick Neichze's Philosophy books? Also this part at 3:48 reminds me of the Neichzean Übermench.
Thank you ! Great video 👍
It's strange to think I managed to play this game through, twice. Even managing to have an excess of coin, food and TWO guns (somehow) by the end of the second playthrough. I'm a sucker for things like Chernobyl, Plague dogs, Watership down, When the wind blows, all that good stuff. I feel that Pathologic 2 captures the general feeling those films / series tried to portray, only in a way that felt real, as if it was your own true experience.
As someone who would definitely struggle with playing a game like this, I truly cannot play it. I know my limits and prefer not to overstep to the point of anger fueled insanity or tears. I've only ever attempted Dark Souls once in my life during college, and didn't even get past the Asylum Demon. Now it was the tv's crappy gamma that screwed me over as I couldn't see the door I was supposed to flee through. But watching the gameplay over the years & that experience have kept me away to this day. I only ever grabbed the game because the 'git gud' & 'why are you talking about if you haven't played it' crowds guiltripped me into believing I wasn't worthy of the game's lore if I wouldn't play it. So against my better judgement I bought the first Dark Souls out of that guilt and a need to feel worthy of the game's lore.
I have never encountered the 'git gud' folks but heard too many stories, I have however met people who asked me why I was discussing a certain game series if I haven't played it. The game series in question being Legacy of Kain, which honestly shocked me really. I don't play the series because I'm dead certain it would break me. I struggle with puzzles in games at times & the platformer genre(I know this as I have played the original Spyro and really struggle with it & despite loving Hidden/Scattered Object games, their puzzles really do anger me sometimes. At least those you can skip.) Anyways...in the encounter with the Legacy of Kain fans I panicked and tried to explain myself only to be given unsolicited advice on how to get or play them and ultimately I felt cornered. Didn't help that their replies were something I woke up to, causing me to type out the most confusing shit out of panic. Finally I just deleted my original comment( a simple joke mocking Blood Omen 2 since many others mocked it too and I just felt like adding in to it a little for fun), as I just couldn't take it anymore. From what I recall, I haven't commented on the channel since then out of fear I'll run into those people again. If I have, it wasn't on any LOK vids. Not naming the channel to prevent trouble for anyone.
I tell these stories to show why I believe a storyteller mode in games would be wonderful. We could play the games and not have to care what the pros think, and the pros can keep their difficulty as they see fit. I don't believe difficulty should be removed, I simply wish there was a compromise you know? Maybe then I'd no longer have to worry about people cornering me or making me feel unworthy of a good story behind a game I can't play. Now the storyteller mode idea wouldn't work for all games obviously, but hey imo a compromise would be better than nothing. Better than being cornered by people who swear by playing games before you're allowed to discuss them, or the 'git gud' crowd yelling at me(looking at the toxic league players) or poke fun. I can handle poking fun at myself or from my friends, but strangers who will never know me is a different story.
Forgive my jumbled rambling, just wanted to point that out is all. Will update upon completing the vid, despite feeling a tad unworthy of it now.
OP, I understand your pain. When I was a child, I was restricted - never allowed to play video games because it was a "waste of time" to the parents. In my adulthood, I became too disabled to play video games. Sure, I can stomach heavy themes, but trying to get a sense of direction is oppressively difficult, my reflexes are ridiculously slow, I can't handle various game aspects like shaky screen, small text, fast animation, effects and bright colors, etc..
The last game I tried playing was Deltarune Chapter 2, and I was so sad that I couldn't even finish it (the "arcade minigame" was where my disability completely betrayed me). So, seeing "git gud" crowds can be annoying.
Pathologic, and other games with difficulty sliders, sidestep this issue, though Pathologic and Celeste are games that notably does *not* mock people for using easier difficulties. That's a first step, even if I'll never play those two games specifically.
correction: Pathologic 2 has a difficulty slider, not 1
also, I can understand you, being poked fun by friends is fun but not by strangers. Sometimes people like that forget that not everyone grew up playing video games, huh? Sending you solidarity, OP.
Loved this video!
Hey Max. I would love to see your thoughts on Outer Wilds in the future.
I think the world needs your analysis on this kind of games and movies. There are some good analysis on Pathologic 2, but none of them couldn't give me this insight on it as your video. So thank you, stay yellow.
More Pathologic videos please :)
I haven't finished the game yet, but I think one idea presented is the coexistence of opposites within everything. Aspity tells you at one point that your father's will was to make the kin and townsfolk mingle, to 'make the body whole'. Individualism and the pursuit of high minded ideals, collectivism and the connection with the earth you walk on, these are both things that have to exist in a healthy society and even in a single person. A body that contains many things.
The difficulty mostly comes from Pathologic 2 being designed as an anti-game (for lack of a better word). You have to unlearn several strategies that are used in pretty much every other game. Throwing yourself at a problem over and over will not work here. Every death makes the rest of the game incrementally harder. You have to accept the loss and move on from a much earlier point or start a new game.
Once you learn this and a few other key tips, you will soon be looking for ways to increase the difficulty.
love the vid, thanks for shining light on such an underrated game :)
I hope you make videos and talk about planescape torment in the future.
Now this, is poggers! I love to see more people talk about Pathologic. I absolutely love this game and everything about it
You should take a look at 'The Void', from icepick lodge too, and maybe explain it
THIS is a great day, my friends.
i love pathologic please make more
0:54 Ok so as you've shown cuphead i'll take that as a yes
YES PLEASE TALK ABOUT IT MORE THERE IS NO WHERE NEAR ENOUGH CONTENT FOR THIS
as usual very insightful!!
Very interesting! Do I have to play the first game to enjoy/understand Pathologic 2?
Right yellow at ya, Max!
I've never finished a horror game, after a certain encounter in any game I get too shook to play again lol
This game is more.. narrative existential horror. There aren't any jumpscares or typical horror tropes. just unsettling environments/sounds/characters/ideas at most. just in case you were thinking of playing/finishing :)
edit: nvm I just remembered, sometimes a birb materializes behind you when you aren't expecting him. asshole birb. but he's not a threat or attacking you or anything
Thanks for sharing this Max, this is really interesting. I think you should add a content warning regarding discussion of suicide, though.