Excellent video! I once worked with a drummer who was in a military band. He trained by working with a click track 8 hours a day, and he was like a human metronome. Every song started and ended the same bpm. It was amazing!
PRACTICING to a click, is a grand idea. Performing WITH a click, is lazy assed soul suck. If tempo is that good, no click required. It sounds better without it.
So true! It was such a huge breakthrough for me when I discovered that I could actually play with a click track. I'm still not good at it, but at first it felt impossible. Not anymore. Sometimes I have to play for quite a while before the click track stops being distracting, but it does eventually. Absolutely worth it.
100 percent agree. I always record with a click, and the best band I ever played in used a click. Super tight band, and my band mates were excellent musicians. Great video, Joe!!
I would never dream of recording a song without a click track. Most people struggle with the click sound. I have found that changing the click sound to a kick drum sound usually fixes the fear of a click track because that is something they are used to hearing.
Musicians should practice regularly to a click, and if you're recording solo or tracking instruments individually, it's almost a necessity in a lot of cases. That said, I don't think a click track is ALWAYS a must. For instance, if you have a REALLY well-rehearsed band and you're recording everyone together, some songs just sound better without a click track. I'm not anti-click though. It just depends on the situation, and a pro musician should be able to adapt either way.
Love your stuff. I struggle playing to a click so play to drum beats on UA-cam. Gets the same results and might help those that struggle with a click. 👍
Click track is essential and you get used to it. And if you get click bleed when recording (with closed back headphones), try using in-ear monitors instead.
Some Songs can be TIGHT to a CLICK or even Quantized yet other Songs sound more natural a tad loose. I do agree 100% I TRACK TO a CLICK ALL MY LIFE! There are Ballads that sound BETTER playing with a FEELING ( No CLICK) Piano/Keys & PADS...
Without having read all 80 comments, i would also add … if you program drums and have those done already … even a simple quarter note high hat pattern … works well as a substitute for a true click track.
I wrote and recorded two songs. Used a metronome on the first and it was absolutely necessary because of the fast tempo, and the guitar needed to be precise for the dramatic structure of the song. The second song is slower, and more dark and emotional I guess, and unlike the first song, I wrote the guitar track after the lyrics. Went to record it and figured out pretty quick that using a metronome was not helping.
To me as a musician doing mostly electronic music but playing my parts as I record them I use the click as a time and groove reference click track are the most important . As Live Sound Engineer I couldn't agree more of the usefulness of a click track in the Live arena as it makes the band so much better sounding . Here's a quick anecdote , I was recording a Prog-Metal band and since it's Progressive Metal there is a ton a tempo and time signature change in the songs . In 2023 late winter/early spring , me and the band went to the drummer's cottage and I challenged them to do 4 songs in 4 days . The band rehearsed like crazy BUT they were not as good using a click track/metronome . When the recording was done , I came back to my studio and I tried real hard to edit the recordings to be on par with professional productions and since the band didn't really had experience using click tracks it failed horribly . The band was so out of sync with the tempo map that it became impossible to edit to the metronome since the songs structure was so complex . So all in all , I 100% agree on the importance of a click track/metronome for both Live and Recording . I salute all the way from The Great White North of Quebec ,Canada .
Yes, playing to a click is necessary skill but I think it's better when bands don't lock into a grid. Most all classic rock, blues and jazz varied tempo (bps) within songs. Sometimes there were slow builds or choruses were a little faster, etc. Used well, tempo can be a tool to use like dynamics but only if you're not locked into a set tempo grid.
yeah- i agree...the major downside to click tracks is there tendency to make us lazier as musicians...i spent a lot of time practicing with a metronome, so it was an easier transition for me...but there are a lot of musicians who don't have that internal beat, because they haven't spent years working with a metronome...
Using a click doesn't have to mean "aggressively sticking to the gridlines like a drum machine". You can go in and tighten after the recording, but it may not be needed. The drummer can still play in a natural feel but it will still be on beat, or close enough to the beat that it's steady while keeping the sound of a human performance. Once everyone else puts their stuff over it and it's tight to what the drums played it'll sound tight regardless if the drummer's performance is exactly on the grid or not.
I often record people in my studio who have trouble playing to a click, so what I do is create a quick drum groove that fits their song, and they record to that. I use Addictive Drums, in Studio One. This has worked well. Personally, when recording myself, I sometimes use a straight click, and sometimes use a drum groove. Sometimes I add a bass part with the drums before recording the guitar...
Story time 😁 For most of my music-making journey, I either used a click track/metronome or played to some kind of drum pattern. Most of the time, it was to a fixed tempo that felt right for the song (and often times, I used a “tap tempo” to get a good number). There were a few times where I mapped out a piece when I know there would be a tempo change or even time signature change. And there have been a few instances where I performed without a click track or to a clearly marked tempo. In fact, the album I’m working on has no fixed or predetermined tempo whatsoever in any of the tracks. This is largely deliberate on my part as this is more about getting the right feel and flow without getting too preoccupied with specific numbers. The arrangements are simple and are open to a freer playing style and tempo. It also gets closer to “working with tape” where you are focused on performances and not to a grid (and yes, I know that even back then, people could still work to a metronome/click track). My point is sharing all of this is that I’ve “done it all” and what ties it all together is deliberate intention. That’s the most important thing above all else.
I think the reason some drummers don’t like a click, is because they feel it takes away an dimension of expression out of their arsenal. Slightly rushing and dragging parts can feel really good if it’s done right. But to be fair, it requires a LOT of skill to do this on purpose in a way that sounds and feels good to the listener and other musicians.
I always us "the click" when I'm making a beat. I start by chopping the sample to it, then I lay the drums and other instruments. The "click" is your best friend.
Thank you for another great video. I play for Scandinavian dancing and so I practice with the Metronome all the time, once I have learned the song because each type of dance requires a different tempo and the dancers want the tempo that they expect to hear and that it is constant. It's quite difficult to dance to a song when the tempo was speeding up or slowing down.
As an old school live musician, I originally HATED click tracks. The very idea was insulting. Eight years ago I was forced into using click tracks for live performance, but today I cannot imagine recording or playing live in church without a click. Joe, you nailed it with this one.
Well you are going to get the comments you expected Joe. A couple of my observations. Some musicians can’t play to a click, and it becomes very apparent very quickly. In that case, see if you can get just the drummer to play with the click, then the rest of the band aren’t even playing to the click. If that doesn’t work, try different click sounds. If that doesn’t work, try a very simple drum loop. But sometimes, you have to work with what you’ve got, and abandon the click. Probably 90% of musicians that say I never play to a click (for whatever reasons they give), can’t and the rest are excuses. The golden rule is still, you have to work with what you’ve got, and try and get the best performance out of that situation.
When did this cancerous "standard" get set in minds? When did this notion that (Godly Choirs: HAIL THE CLICK) become the thing? Excuses? What fkn world is this? Can't? How about screw the click? How about that principle? All this preening reaching and wanking over "can't". Holy encrusted crapsteaks, what IS this thread and discourse? If people WANNA play to a stupid click, wtf-ever. Have at it. But this snarky condescension that there's something "deficient" in the capability and the approach of the clickless? What an absolute circle-jerk fest.
Both click and no click have their uses. I prefer the looseness of a drummer. Sometimes the drummer would play to a click and the rest of the band would play to the drum track.
Playing to a click is often a hard-won skill. It was for me. Once you learn to play to a click, you can find a freedom you didn't have before. The click takes care of the time for you and you get to relax into the performance which can really give the music a better feel because you're now free to just simply play. Best part is once you can, you don't have to if it's not needed but when it is, you're up to the task. I've also found it helped develop my own "inner clock" when a click isn't available for whatever reason. My time became much better. (I've recorded on live drums/guitar/bass and keyboards for my own music and other peoples songs.) It's completely worth the effort to work towards mastery.
Feel? What feel? You're in a tempo-prison. Constantly referenced back to an intransigent flow of soulless thacking. Feel? This is like a delusion therapy group.
@@pathogeneration5138 The "tempo prison" comes from not being able to play to the time reference. Name any great drummer known for having a great feel and the majority of them still have great feel when playing to a click. For mere mortals like me, it's an extremely difficult challenge but the payoffs are worth the effort just like with most anything else in life that's difficult to do. I watched a video some years ago with either Carter Beauford or Dennis Chambers (pretty sure it was Chambers) and he talked about playing to a click. They're both top-notch drummers widely respected for both feel and technique. Roger Taylor from Queen is one of my favorite drummers and no one can say he doesn't have a great feel but he definitely has the ability to play to a click. (Think "Radio GaGa with all the sequenced keyboards.) Other drummers of note are Phil Collins and Stewart Copeland. Both used clicks as needed and, again, no one can deny they both have a great feel and great technique. I'm only picking rock drummers with extensive careers. None of this even begins to dig into how many great drummers play with great feel to a click in all sorts of different genres. It's all around us. it's better to be a great drummer who can play great without a click and play great with a click. Now we're talking musicianship.
@@WhaleBluePRS I find it seriously perplexing why anyone would "struggle" to play to a click, if they can keep decent time without it. It's the alleviation of mental load, and the load of something that requires consistent feel. As much as I find it a principled affront to play to a click, save the sole excuse of programmed lights (and there are better options). I'd rather watch a beginner play at a local dive, than fork out to watch a "professional" have a robot keep time. Scoff and sneer at that. I go to watch HUMANS PLAY. If they're gunna play to a sterile grid, I'd rather hang out at a campfire. Yeah, they can push and pull against the fixed pulse. But it's still reconciled against the same, inhumanely rigid pulse. If I'm gunna hear a rigidly inhumane pulse, I'd rather hear at a Jazz recital. Then the principle is that it's actually impressive. Other than that, I find this whole "scene" of click-worship to be acoustical flatulence. I'd rather listen to Meg White play on her own wonky time, than any of the super slicks play to a click. Nothing to detract from their greatness. But it's taste and principle. I can't stand quantized swill on record, let alone having it duplicated in the illusory feat of performance.
@@pathogeneration5138 I tried to figure out how to say this without coming across as arrogant, snide etc. I really don't want to be misunderstood. I will sum it up this way: no player of any instrument or style will ever be made less of a player by mastering any technique that can prove useful overall. That includes the click. As a player (guitar is my main instrument but drums were my first and I've recorded/performed/taught drums), I have an obligation to pursue excellence because it's respectful of those I work with. I'm not as naturally talented as some people are, so that means I'm have to work hard so everyone I work with can realize their full potential as well. That means learning everything I can to the best of my ability. When I can't play to a click and the production team and/or band are counting on me, it's not right that I'm being disrespectful of their time, effort and money. No player ever becomes less of a player by working hard on any aspect of what they might come across on their musical journey. Great players will always play with feel, with our without a click. This is a great conversation, one I've had many, many times in-person. I wish you the best and encourage you to pursue whatever music inspires you.
Agreed! Thanks Joe! I had a folk artist in for a session. We set up a click, but used a simple Easy Drummer rhythm for him to play to… much easier for a less experienced artist than playing to click, click, click…. Turned out great! He laid down some African percussion afterwards. We could correct to a grid. We were able to fly vocal doubles around. So much easier to edit when all is on the grid. And the results are Much more listenable and professional than the usual well-rehearsed band that cannot do click track… Hey, just fyi… I’m going to a weekend recording retreat at the Sonic Ranch outside El Paso, TX with Thomas Juth 2nd weekend February’25. Small group of 10 I believe. There’s a couple of spots left. I know you’re more than qualified to teach a session like that… but wouldn’t that be a cool taxy write-off, working vacation for you? I know you need a break! Possible video spin-offs… yeah!
I'm a drummer, and I told another drummer friend of mine that tempo is paramount. As a drummer you ARE the tempo and in essence, the director of the band. He said, completely seriously, that he "really wasn't INTO tempo". I don't believe I've spoken to him since. Playing with a click is just like playing with another musician, or keeping the band director in your peripheral vision.
when i had my own band, i would have the drummer play to a click track, put the kick in my iems, and then told everyone if they wanted to know where the beat was, follow the drummer...if they're on time, "everyone's" on time...
Joe, I play bass in a worship band. We do not use click tracks. The sister church's band does use a click track. Our worship leader has convinced our team that we are a much better band because we don't need a click track. I tried to tell them that was absolutely wrong but they did not accept it. It so frustrates me they are so closed-minded they can't understand it.
what's great about recording to a metronome is essentially what is great about THE GRID: you can record over an 8-bar loop for an hour on various instruments and create extrapolate an arrangement out of that at any place in the song... the Pro Tools playlist function is especially great for that, for Ableton Live you would have to do the looping in the session view and record the arrangement.
I have a really really really really really dumb question. When you say things like "when we didn't record to a click track in the studio", what did you record to, the live drummer who could possibly be off time? That's the only thing I can think of. Thank you!
Currently, I can’t play to a click track, and I hate even trying to do it. But I realize I need to push past that and learn. What convinced me was when I tried to record my piano playing and singing at the same time. I was recording a virtual piano, which sounded great, but my microphone for singing was picking up a loud thumping from my weighted piano keyboard. I was able to edit most of it out, as it was most noticeable between vocal phrases, but I realized that it would be better to record the piano separately, then sing over it in a separate recording. I would use comping to stitch together the best performances separately for the piano and vocal tracks. I can see now that the editing for this would be made so much easier if I could learn to play to a click track.
It's also handy (necessary) to record with a click track if alongside of real recordings you make use of existing loops and AI software instruments like Toontrack EZ Keys/Drums/Bass, Native's Session Guitarist and the new session players in Logic Pro 11
Yeah, i must admit that playing to a click is difficult lol. I just have a hard time hearing and differentiating up beats from down beats. I mean keeping the tempo is definitely important, the best way I've found is to replace the click with drums asap. I'm not sure about live situations, but I have to disagree it helps with the grove...when writing. Discovering and playing with good "grove" works out much better when you're playing to the specific drum line of that song. Especially when there's some swing/shuffle in the drums. Maybe this applies more to live recorded stuff. Unfortunately I dont have a drummer so I program my drums in lol
Some click tracks can be drums and hi-hat and you can emphasize the down beat by making it louder. I agree normal clicks are annoying, because they usually use some weird sounding sound.
I’m in a band that is pretty experimental and we change time signatures and tempos a lot, so I do make tempo maps for them. For my own music I tried for a LONG time to record without a click but it was hard. I find the older the song is the harder it is to record without a click because I don’t remember the initial energy I had, so I need a click. But if I just made up the song that day, I can easily record without a click and I prefer it, and I can record the drums on top because it’s all so fresh. But in most situations I think a click is necessary, esp when you’re recording with a band for release and want to take it seriously with edits and comps. Click is also important when mixing rhythmically with delays and bus compression and any effect that needs to be timed.
Hi Joe Can i request a video?m ur subscriber and watch all videos. I have gone through your huge reverbs video recently, but i need a precise sound regarding vocals, which is "Plaza All Mine" Usually plaza has this signature reverbs sounds. Could you plz make that sounding vocals? I use Lexicon. But you can guide generally. Best!
2 місяці тому
Click track is so useful if you produce music via DAW. It makes so easy to edit tracks or change song structure. If the click track is too raw, it is possible to build more musical sequences (percussions for example).
I can´t play to a click track but, for some reason, I can play to a drum pattern so I just set up a simple pattern at the bpm I need and it works fine. Works for me and I don´t play live any more so this means my recordings are easy to edit..
Click track gets the first recording into a structure but subsequent tracks don't necessarily need the click track, it's already mapped into a groove. Creativity comes when organically playing with a track that has been established with a click track, pushing, pulling, swinging, off-beating.
I’m definitely pro click, but I usually find the tempo and then use a drum groove that matches the feel of the song (including adding swing if needed). I think you could have expanded a little on some of the tricks that make using a click easier. I never progressed beyond drum loops to a raw click and it hasn’t really held me back at all. i have definitely cycled through a bunch of drummers who hate clicks, but I find that the better the drummer, the more likely they are to be well-versed at playing to a click. There is a great scene in “Sound City” where the producer suggests to Dave Grohl to play to a click. It’s hilarious to see his spirit leave his body in that moment.
Would love to know how you feel about how a song fits together in a groove..? IE some bands get their magic from some instruments not being EXACTLY on the beat.. they have a certain slight timing variation that adds to the groove.. not dissing click tracks at all theyre very useful! So where's the line? How do we find that line when mixing? Thanks Jo! 🙏🕊️✨
@@Owl-qh2rh Get the drummer to play to the click and everyone else follows the drummer, with no click. I’m a bass player, and yes, I push and pull against the drums as required for the song, but that requires a good drummer that doesn’t follow you. If he is playing to the click, it works out much easier. Obviously if you have top notch musicians who have been playing together for a long time with great internal timing, they can pull this off. But, you are now talking about 1-2% of all musos.
Yeah, I just made my first recording where I use more than one instrument and one vocal. I’m not completely on the beat because I need a lot more practice but without the click track I don’t think it would have been worth trying at all…
Tip: Most in DAW metronome are uninspiring and sounds like sh*t ! So make your own click track (Snare or woodblock or whatever you like), loop it and follow that. Works a treat !
I remember a vid you made about moving the beat-marks to suit slight tempo changes. As a drummer I have tried playing to a click, and yes it requires some getting used to. I wonder if Ringo Starr ever recorded with a click?
On many songs, the Beatles click track was: track one, Paul Bass line...track two Ringo kick and tamborine. Then the rest {possibly over a month or more) was recorded to that "click track". But we are not The Beatles...
What's a major contentious issue, is this douchebaggy implication about "reasons". Has it ever occured to this doofus, that some musicians are principally opposed to a robot timekeeper? DeY CaN'T PlAy tO A CliCk Who the hell can't play to a click? The slight of it. Yeah, just go make scrotum gum OP.
For those who think click tracks and editing to the grid produce artificial music, or are a sign of not being good at playing, when you write letters, emails, papers, etc, do you only use the first draft with no editing or revisions? Would you turn off autocorrect, or editing suggestions to make it read more "human"? doubtful.
Jests aside, I'd rather listen to you play triangle with human frailty. Than what is apparently a domineering horde of arrogant click-elitists playing anything well. Ugh, that this is a pervasive mentality.
I’m at the point where I can play well to a drum loop, playing with a click is still hit or miss. Always start with a click and then move to a drum loop if it’s not working that day after several tries.
@@raymondmeers these days you can create a tempo map based on the recording. Works pretty well most of the time actually. Or you can record the MIDI for the synths on a keyboard.
I'm definitely pro click track! I do think having a tempo map that varies slightly throughout the song can make it sound a bit more human. Depends on the song of course.
What we're gunna do is- Remove the human with a robot. Then tell the robot to act human. We're gunna head next door, via the adjacent continent. Who's with me? There's a dazzling way to accomplish this, with less steps. They did it in the 19th Century. It was amazing.
Spirit in the sky; also Paul Simon's The Vampires. No metronome. Better groove, the human brain is sick of mechanical entrainment. Imperfect is better. Variance, in classical, jazz, folk, even rock.
If you never practiced with a metronome, how do you play in time, I wouldn't ever use it live, that sounds really weird, but, luckily, I have never had to try that
I can see your point. I think I read somewhere that Sympathy for the Devil changes its tempo by over 15%. That groove certainly doesn't sound lurching or out of the pocket or anything bad. It sounds natural. When my band started practicing (and recording practices) with a click, though, it really cleared up some train wrecks, particularly in transitions. We moved off it after awhile, but it definitely helped us sound better even after we stopped using it.
Don't get me wrong: practicing to a click is a good thing, since it strengthens timing. But actual playing, especially performing or recording sounds a lot better without a click. It rather breathes in a human manner than sounding like a machine. Sure, parts can't be moved around, but to be honest: that's not what music should be about.
@@dennisk.3909 please tell us all what music should be about. I studied musicology and have been a musician for decades and yet no one has ever imparted this knowledge to me.
@@teebagz1 It is a thing of personal preferences. Especially in the aforementioned styles of folk and rock music slight adjustments to tempo are an integral part of the genre. It's not about sloppy timing, rather enhancing the expression of a piece of music by meaningful changes of speed. To answer your question: music should not be played in time to make production easy in the first place.😉
Your criticism of why people don’t like click tracks isn’t that they can’t play with them. That is a ridiculous and manipulative statement. The reason people reject click tracks is because it reduces or in many cases removes phrasing. Some musicians are very good at phrasing and adding a click track to those musicians can clip their wings and remove or reduce the magic that is their performances. If you believe the mixing engineer is more important than the performance…I believe that many people believe that today…then grid everything in…but it does not serve the recording if you have someone who can play a magical performance by phrasing but instead are going to produce a vanilla boring performance because the producers gridded in a too restrictive infrastructure ignoring the strengths of that player. A click track is just a tool to tighten up a song or recording…but sometimes tightening up the song or recording destroys the song or recording. I appreciate that you made the video…and appreciate that you make other mixing technique videos. I just thought you papered over the criticisms of using click tracks. Production is not a one dimensional thing. You either grid something in or you don’t. Based on if you need that infrastructure tool or not to bring out the best performances of that recording or song.
I agree that there are valid reasons to not use a click Track, but it is naïve to think that there are not a lot of people out there who do not use click tracks because they have not learned to play to a click. I’m in a unique position to hear hundreds of recordings from aspiring home studio musicians, so I’ve got a lot of data to back up what I’m saying. It’s not opinion. It’s my literal experience over the last 15 years of serving this community.
Yeah, it got way up my nose too. As if musicians who can actually keep time, don't have spiritual objections, to the very point of performing, with lessened human element.
It sucks for some genres.. jazz, psych, improvy, folky, rocknroll stuff... Klick is not hard to play with.. just boring and very ugly sounding. Really neat for a lot of other genres where you want things under control. I don't.. I like shit to fast and fucked up 😅 "Learn to play" is the rule with or without click. Tight playing does not depend on click or no click.
I have a lot of respect for you so I'm gonna hang around for the rest of the video but I'm a hard NO on the first minute. I think this is one of those areas that your judgement might be a bit skewed by the genera you specialize in. I could just as easily argue that you need a click track because you can't count... but I would never do that. Thankfully, a lot of music absolutely cannot be performed to a click and thankfully a lot of it isn't made for ease of editing. Clearly, a click track is golden and a huge help for a lot of situations, but if I had to listen to "click, click, click" all night long while performing, I would instantly lose any motivation and joy to do it.
@@RandomGuyCDNThat’s not right. It is everyone’s job to keep time in a band. The drummer might establish the tempo at the start of the song. I am a bass player.
@@greenloungerecording9362 If everyone is keeping time, nobody is keeping time. It doesn't have to be the drums. Some of them have a dodgy clock. But SOMEONE has to lead. And don't look at the singer. If not the Drummer, than probably the Bass.
▶︎▶︎ Ultimate Recording Checklist: www.homestudiocorner.com/checklist
Excellent video! I once worked with a drummer who was in a military band. He trained by working with a click track 8 hours a day, and he was like a human metronome. Every song started and ended the same bpm. It was amazing!
You are so lucky to have a good drummer🎉😂
PRACTICING to a click, is a grand idea.
Performing WITH a click, is lazy assed soul suck.
If tempo is that good, no click required. It sounds better without it.
I record to a click track every time I record. I wouldn't even think about about not using it.
So true! It was such a huge breakthrough for me when I discovered that I could actually play with a click track. I'm still not good at it, but at first it felt impossible. Not anymore. Sometimes I have to play for quite a while before the click track stops being distracting, but it does eventually. Absolutely worth it.
100 percent agree. I always record with a click, and the best band I ever played in used a click. Super tight band, and my band mates were excellent musicians. Great video, Joe!!
I would never dream of recording a song without a click track. Most people struggle with the click sound. I have found that changing the click sound to a kick drum sound usually fixes the fear of a click track because that is something they are used to hearing.
No wonder music sounds so sterile today.
Musicians should practice regularly to a click, and if you're recording solo or tracking instruments individually, it's almost a necessity in a lot of cases. That said, I don't think a click track is ALWAYS a must. For instance, if you have a REALLY well-rehearsed band and you're recording everyone together, some songs just sound better without a click track. I'm not anti-click though. It just depends on the situation, and a pro musician should be able to adapt either way.
man I can’t even imagine myself making music without a click track
Love your stuff. I struggle playing to a click so play to drum beats on UA-cam. Gets the same results and might help those that struggle with a click. 👍
Click track is essential and you get used to it. And if you get click bleed when recording (with closed back headphones), try using in-ear monitors instead.
Essential huh. However did they cope at Woodstock?
The tragedy. If only they'd known. Known about robotic time.
Some Songs can be TIGHT to a CLICK or even Quantized yet other Songs sound more natural a tad loose. I do agree 100% I TRACK TO a CLICK ALL MY LIFE! There are Ballads that sound BETTER playing with a FEELING ( No CLICK) Piano/Keys & PADS...
Without having read all 80 comments, i would also add … if you program drums and have those done already … even a simple quarter note high hat pattern … works well as a substitute for a true click track.
I wrote and recorded two songs. Used a metronome on the first and it was absolutely necessary because of the fast tempo, and the guitar needed to be precise for the dramatic structure of the song. The second song is slower, and more dark and emotional I guess, and unlike the first song, I wrote the guitar track after the lyrics. Went to record it and figured out pretty quick that using a metronome was not helping.
To me as a musician doing mostly electronic music but playing my parts as I record them I use the click as a time and groove reference click track are the most important . As Live Sound Engineer I couldn't agree more of the usefulness of a click track in the Live arena as it makes the band so much better sounding . Here's a quick anecdote , I was recording a Prog-Metal band and since it's Progressive Metal there is a ton a tempo and time signature change in the songs . In 2023 late winter/early spring , me and the band went to the drummer's cottage and I challenged them to do 4 songs in 4 days . The band rehearsed like crazy BUT they were not as good using a click track/metronome . When the recording was done , I came back to my studio and I tried real hard to edit the recordings to be on par with professional productions and since the band didn't really had experience using click tracks it failed horribly . The band was so out of sync with the tempo map that it became impossible to edit to the metronome since the songs structure was so complex . So all in all , I 100% agree on the importance of a click track/metronome for both Live and Recording . I salute all the way from The Great White North of Quebec ,Canada .
Yes, playing to a click is necessary skill but I think it's better when bands don't lock into a grid. Most all classic rock, blues and jazz varied tempo (bps) within songs. Sometimes there were slow builds or choruses were a little faster, etc. Used well, tempo can be a tool to use like dynamics but only if you're not locked into a set tempo grid.
yeah- i agree...the major downside to click tracks is there tendency to make us lazier as musicians...i spent a lot of time practicing with a metronome, so it was an easier transition for me...but there are a lot of musicians who don't have that internal beat, because they haven't spent years working with a metronome...
@@sseltrek1a2b
Even as a matter of principle, it's a goddamn affront.
Oh hey! Let's trade bars with head nods!
Keith! Get the click track!
Using a click doesn't have to mean "aggressively sticking to the gridlines like a drum machine". You can go in and tighten after the recording, but it may not be needed. The drummer can still play in a natural feel but it will still be on beat, or close enough to the beat that it's steady while keeping the sound of a human performance. Once everyone else puts their stuff over it and it's tight to what the drums played it'll sound tight regardless if the drummer's performance is exactly on the grid or not.
I often record people in my studio who have trouble playing to a click, so what I do is create a quick drum groove that fits their song, and they record to that. I use Addictive Drums, in Studio One. This has worked well. Personally, when recording myself, I sometimes use a straight click, and sometimes use a drum groove. Sometimes I add a bass part with the drums before recording the guitar...
A shame. I'd rather listen to them struggle with time. At least it's human.
Story time 😁
For most of my music-making journey, I either used a click track/metronome or played to some kind of drum pattern. Most of the time, it was to a fixed tempo that felt right for the song (and often times, I used a “tap tempo” to get a good number). There were a few times where I mapped out a piece when I know there would be a tempo change or even time signature change.
And there have been a few instances where I performed without a click track or to a clearly marked tempo. In fact, the album I’m working on has no fixed or predetermined tempo whatsoever in any of the tracks. This is largely deliberate on my part as this is more about getting the right feel and flow without getting too preoccupied with specific numbers. The arrangements are simple and are open to a freer playing style and tempo. It also gets closer to “working with tape” where you are focused on performances and not to a grid (and yes, I know that even back then, people could still work to a metronome/click track).
My point is sharing all of this is that I’ve “done it all” and what ties it all together is deliberate intention. That’s the most important thing above all else.
Click is SUPER Important 🙌
Horse + Shit
I think the reason some drummers don’t like a click, is because they feel it takes away an dimension of expression out of their arsenal. Slightly rushing and dragging parts can feel really good if it’s done right. But to be fair, it requires a LOT of skill to do this on purpose in a way that sounds and feels good to the listener and other musicians.
drummers feel exposed by the click.
@@teebagz1
No, they feel constrained by the click.
They are correct.
Great job of giving a great reminder of a great topic that I need to do a greater job of being great at. Thank you Oh, Great One.
I struggled with using the metronome for a while. After I got used to it, ohhhh how things got better.
I always us "the click" when I'm making a beat. I start by chopping the sample to it, then I lay the drums and other instruments. The "click" is your best friend.
Thank you for another great video. I play for Scandinavian dancing and so I practice with the Metronome all the time, once I have learned the song because each type of dance requires a different tempo and the dancers want the tempo that they expect to hear and that it is constant. It's quite difficult to dance to a song when the tempo was speeding up or slowing down.
As an old school live musician, I originally HATED click tracks. The very idea was insulting. Eight years ago I was forced into using click tracks for live performance, but today I cannot imagine recording or playing live in church without a click. Joe, you nailed it with this one.
Well you are going to get the comments you expected Joe. A couple of my observations. Some musicians can’t play to a click, and it becomes very apparent very quickly. In that case, see if you can get just the drummer to play with the click, then the rest of the band aren’t even playing to the click. If that doesn’t work, try different click sounds. If that doesn’t work, try a very simple drum loop. But sometimes, you have to work with what you’ve got, and abandon the click. Probably 90% of musicians that say I never play to a click (for whatever reasons they give), can’t and the rest are excuses. The golden rule is still, you have to work with what you’ve got, and try and get the best performance out of that situation.
When did this cancerous "standard" get set in minds?
When did this notion that (Godly Choirs: HAIL THE CLICK) become the thing?
Excuses? What fkn world is this? Can't? How about screw the click? How about that principle?
All this preening reaching and wanking over "can't". Holy encrusted crapsteaks, what IS this thread and discourse?
If people WANNA play to a stupid click, wtf-ever. Have at it. But this snarky condescension that there's something "deficient" in the capability and the approach of the clickless?
What an absolute circle-jerk fest.
Both click and no click have their uses. I prefer the looseness of a drummer. Sometimes the drummer would play to a click and the rest of the band would play to the drum track.
Click tracks are like that person you argue with but they always end up right.
They're super annoying but necessary
Playing to a click is often a hard-won skill. It was for me. Once you learn to play to a click, you can find a freedom you didn't have before. The click takes care of the time for you and you get to relax into the performance which can really give the music a better feel because you're now free to just simply play. Best part is once you can, you don't have to if it's not needed but when it is, you're up to the task. I've also found it helped develop my own "inner clock" when a click isn't available for whatever reason. My time became much better. (I've recorded on live drums/guitar/bass and keyboards for my own music and other peoples songs.) It's completely worth the effort to work towards mastery.
Feel? What feel? You're in a tempo-prison. Constantly referenced back to an intransigent flow of soulless thacking. Feel? This is like a delusion therapy group.
@@pathogeneration5138 The "tempo prison" comes from not being able to play to the time reference. Name any great drummer known for having a great feel and the majority of them still have great feel when playing to a click. For mere mortals like me, it's an extremely difficult challenge but the payoffs are worth the effort just like with most anything else in life that's difficult to do. I watched a video some years ago with either Carter Beauford or Dennis Chambers (pretty sure it was Chambers) and he talked about playing to a click. They're both top-notch drummers widely respected for both feel and technique. Roger Taylor from Queen is one of my favorite drummers and no one can say he doesn't have a great feel but he definitely has the ability to play to a click. (Think "Radio GaGa with all the sequenced keyboards.) Other drummers of note are Phil Collins and Stewart Copeland. Both used clicks as needed and, again, no one can deny they both have a great feel and great technique. I'm only picking rock drummers with extensive careers. None of this even begins to dig into how many great drummers play with great feel to a click in all sorts of different genres. It's all around us. it's better to be a great drummer who can play great without a click and play great with a click. Now we're talking musicianship.
@@WhaleBluePRS
I find it seriously perplexing why anyone would "struggle" to play to a click, if they can keep decent time without it. It's the alleviation of mental load, and the load of something that requires consistent feel.
As much as I find it a principled affront to play to a click, save the sole excuse of programmed lights (and there are better options). I'd rather watch a beginner play at a local dive, than fork out to watch a "professional" have a robot keep time. Scoff and sneer at that.
I go to watch HUMANS PLAY. If they're gunna play to a sterile grid, I'd rather hang out at a campfire.
Yeah, they can push and pull against the fixed pulse. But it's still reconciled against the same, inhumanely rigid pulse. If I'm gunna hear a rigidly inhumane pulse, I'd rather hear at a Jazz recital. Then the principle is that it's actually impressive.
Other than that, I find this whole "scene" of click-worship to be acoustical flatulence.
I'd rather listen to Meg White play on her own wonky time, than any of the super slicks play to a click. Nothing to detract from their greatness. But it's taste and principle. I can't stand quantized swill on record, let alone having it duplicated in the illusory feat of performance.
@@pathogeneration5138 I tried to figure out how to say this without coming across as arrogant, snide etc. I really don't want to be misunderstood. I will sum it up this way: no player of any instrument or style will ever be made less of a player by mastering any technique that can prove useful overall. That includes the click. As a player (guitar is my main instrument but drums were my first and I've recorded/performed/taught drums), I have an obligation to pursue excellence because it's respectful of those I work with. I'm not as naturally talented as some people are, so that means I'm have to work hard so everyone I work with can realize their full potential as well. That means learning everything I can to the best of my ability. When I can't play to a click and the production team and/or band are counting on me, it's not right that I'm being disrespectful of their time, effort and money. No player ever becomes less of a player by working hard on any aspect of what they might come across on their musical journey. Great players will always play with feel, with our without a click. This is a great conversation, one I've had many, many times in-person. I wish you the best and encourage you to pursue whatever music inspires you.
Agreed! Thanks Joe! I had a folk artist in for a session. We set up a click, but used a simple Easy Drummer rhythm for him to play to… much easier for a less experienced artist than playing to click, click, click…. Turned out great! He laid down some African percussion afterwards. We could correct to a grid. We were able to fly vocal doubles around. So much easier to edit when all is on the grid. And the results are Much more listenable and professional than the usual well-rehearsed band that cannot do click track…
Hey, just fyi… I’m going to a weekend recording retreat at the Sonic Ranch outside El Paso, TX with Thomas Juth 2nd weekend February’25. Small group of 10 I believe. There’s a couple of spots left. I know you’re more than qualified to teach a session like that… but wouldn’t that be a cool taxy write-off, working vacation for you? I know you need a break! Possible video spin-offs… yeah!
When you're done there, you should go Quantize all the Fela Kuti records.
It'll be amazing. He'd love it.
I'm a drummer, and I told another drummer friend of mine that tempo is paramount. As a drummer you ARE the tempo and in essence, the director of the band. He said, completely seriously, that he "really wasn't INTO tempo". I don't believe I've spoken to him since. Playing with a click is just like playing with another musician, or keeping the band director in your peripheral vision.
when i had my own band, i would have the drummer play to a click track, put the kick in my iems, and then told everyone if they wanted to know where the beat was, follow the drummer...if they're on time, "everyone's" on time...
Joe, I play bass in a worship band. We do not use click tracks. The sister church's band does use a click track. Our worship leader has convinced our team that we are a much better band because we don't need a click track. I tried to tell them that was absolutely wrong but they did not accept it. It so frustrates me they are so closed-minded they can't understand it.
You are absolutely wrong. Your worship leader is absolutely right.
Click tracks, when not required by lighting, are dweeby and soulless.
Well you are in a church. People in those buildings tend to have strong beliefs that are often wrong.
what's great about recording to a metronome is essentially what is great about THE GRID: you can record over an 8-bar loop for an hour on various instruments and create extrapolate an arrangement out of that at any place in the song... the Pro Tools playlist function is especially great for that, for Ableton Live you would have to do the looping in the session view and record the arrangement.
I have a really really really really really dumb question. When you say things like "when we didn't record to a click track in the studio", what did you record to, the live drummer who could possibly be off time? That's the only thing I can think of. Thank you!
Currently, I can’t play to a click track, and I hate even trying to do it. But I realize I need to push past that and learn. What convinced me was when I tried to record my piano playing and singing at the same time. I was recording a virtual piano, which sounded great, but my microphone for singing was picking up a loud thumping from my weighted piano keyboard. I was able to edit most of it out, as it was most noticeable between vocal phrases, but I realized that it would be better to record the piano separately, then sing over it in a separate recording. I would use comping to stitch together the best performances separately for the piano and vocal tracks. I can see now that the editing for this would be made so much easier if I could learn to play to a click track.
It's also handy (necessary) to record with a click track if alongside of real recordings you make use of existing loops and AI software instruments like Toontrack EZ Keys/Drums/Bass, Native's Session Guitarist and the new session players in Logic Pro 11
Yeah, i must admit that playing to a click is difficult lol. I just have a hard time hearing and differentiating up beats from down beats. I mean keeping the tempo is definitely important, the best way I've found is to replace the click with drums asap.
I'm not sure about live situations, but I have to disagree it helps with the grove...when writing. Discovering and playing with good "grove" works out much better when you're playing to the specific drum line of that song. Especially when there's some swing/shuffle in the drums.
Maybe this applies more to live recorded stuff. Unfortunately I dont have a drummer so I program my drums in lol
Some click tracks can be drums and hi-hat and you can emphasize the down beat by making it louder. I agree normal clicks are annoying, because they usually use some weird sounding sound.
I’m in a band that is pretty experimental and we change time signatures and tempos a lot, so I do make tempo maps for them.
For my own music I tried for a LONG time to record without a click but it was hard. I find the older the song is the harder it is to record without a click because I don’t remember the initial energy I had, so I need a click. But if I just made up the song that day, I can easily record without a click and I prefer it, and I can record the drums on top because it’s all so fresh. But in most situations I think a click is necessary, esp when you’re recording with a band for release and want to take it seriously with edits and comps.
Click is also important when mixing rhythmically with delays and bus compression and any effect that needs to be timed.
Hi Joe
Can i request a video?m ur subscriber and watch all videos. I have gone through your huge reverbs video recently, but i need a precise sound regarding vocals, which is
"Plaza All Mine"
Usually plaza has this signature reverbs sounds. Could you plz make that sounding vocals? I use Lexicon. But you can guide generally.
Best!
Click track is so useful if you produce music via DAW. It makes so easy to edit tracks or change song structure.
If the click track is too raw, it is possible to build more musical sequences (percussions for example).
I can´t play to a click track but, for some reason, I can play to a drum pattern so I just set up a simple pattern at the bpm I need and it works fine. Works for me and I don´t play live any more so this means my recordings are easy to edit..
Click track gets the first recording into a structure but subsequent tracks don't necessarily need the click track, it's already mapped into a groove.
Creativity comes when organically playing with a track that has been established with a click track, pushing, pulling, swinging, off-beating.
I’m definitely pro click, but I usually find the tempo and then use a drum groove that matches the feel of the song (including adding swing if needed). I think you could have expanded a little on some of the tricks that make using a click easier. I never progressed beyond drum loops to a raw click and it hasn’t really held me back at all. i have definitely cycled through a bunch of drummers who hate clicks, but I find that the better the drummer, the more likely they are to be well-versed at playing to a click. There is a great scene in “Sound City” where the producer suggests to Dave Grohl to play to a click. It’s hilarious to see his spirit leave his body in that moment.
Would love to know how you feel about how a song fits together in a groove..? IE some bands get their magic from some instruments not being EXACTLY on the beat.. they have a certain slight timing variation that adds to the groove.. not dissing click tracks at all theyre very useful! So where's the line? How do we find that line when mixing?
Thanks Jo! 🙏🕊️✨
@@Owl-qh2rh Get the drummer to play to the click and everyone else follows the drummer, with no click. I’m a bass player, and yes, I push and pull against the drums as required for the song, but that requires a good drummer that doesn’t follow you. If he is playing to the click, it works out much easier. Obviously if you have top notch musicians who have been playing together for a long time with great internal timing, they can pull this off. But, you are now talking about 1-2% of all musos.
Yeah, I just made my first recording where I use more than one instrument and one vocal. I’m not completely on the beat because I need a lot more practice but without the click track I don’t think it would have been worth trying at all…
Tip: Most in DAW metronome are uninspiring and sounds like sh*t ! So make your own click track (Snare or woodblock or whatever you like), loop it and follow that. Works a treat !
I remember a vid you made about moving the beat-marks to suit slight tempo changes. As a drummer I have tried playing to a click, and yes it requires some getting used to. I wonder if Ringo Starr ever recorded with a click?
On many songs, the Beatles click track was: track one, Paul Bass line...track two Ringo kick and tamborine. Then the rest {possibly over a month or more) was recorded to that "click track". But we are not The Beatles...
Click tracks are like any other tool: used judiciously, they can be an invaluable resource to improve one's playing and singing.
yeah- this is a major contentious issue among musicians for playing live...
What's a major contentious issue, is this douchebaggy implication about "reasons".
Has it ever occured to this doofus, that some musicians are principally opposed to a robot timekeeper?
DeY CaN'T PlAy tO A CliCk
Who the hell can't play to a click? The slight of it. Yeah, just go make scrotum gum OP.
All day everyday unless I were in AC/DC and we were recording Back In Black
For those who think click tracks and editing to the grid produce artificial music, or are a sign of not being good at playing, when you write letters, emails, papers, etc, do you only use the first draft with no editing or revisions? Would you turn off autocorrect, or editing suggestions to make it read more "human"? doubtful.
I don't need a click track, I'm the lead triangle player!🤣😂🤣
Jests aside, I'd rather listen to you play triangle with human frailty. Than what is apparently a domineering horde of arrogant click-elitists playing anything well.
Ugh, that this is a pervasive mentality.
That’s the common go to response of musicians
I’m at the point where I can play well to a drum loop, playing with a click is still hit or miss. Always start with a click and then move to a drum loop if it’s not working that day after several tries.
Respect!!!.
Without a click track it is impossible to add a software synthesizers, orchestra..... to a recorded track
@@raymondmeers these days you can create a tempo map based on the recording. Works pretty well most of the time actually. Or you can record the MIDI for the synths on a keyboard.
Here's a miraculous idea. Have you thought of... I dunno.
Playing the instrument?
I'm definitely pro click track! I do think having a tempo map that varies slightly throughout the song can make it sound a bit more human. Depends on the song of course.
What we're gunna do is- Remove the human with a robot.
Then tell the robot to act human.
We're gunna head next door, via the adjacent continent. Who's with me?
There's a dazzling way to accomplish this, with less steps. They did it in the 19th Century. It was amazing.
@@pathogeneration5138 Do you have any recordings to back up that claim! LOL
@@scottakam
I'll just pull up my wax cylinders.
You will never have good time if you can’t play in time.
Spirit in the sky; also Paul Simon's The Vampires. No metronome. Better groove, the human brain is sick of mechanical entrainment. Imperfect is better. Variance, in classical, jazz, folk, even rock.
Thus Spake the Sage.
I've said it elsewhere here. I'd rather hear the musician struggle, than be carried by a sterile cog.
If you never practiced with a metronome, how do you play in time, I wouldn't ever use it live, that sounds really weird, but, luckily, I have never had to try that
Hello, where can we hear your own songs then?
Search my name
I like a click the accents beat one.
i only record off grid for that live human sound with human mistakes. on grid pop music is boring. zepplin didnt use a click.🍻
I can play to a click, but it sucks life out of the music, especially in rock or folk music.
I can see your point. I think I read somewhere that Sympathy for the Devil changes its tempo by over 15%. That groove certainly doesn't sound lurching or out of the pocket or anything bad. It sounds natural. When my band started practicing (and recording practices) with a click, though, it really cleared up some train wrecks, particularly in transitions. We moved off it after awhile, but it definitely helped us sound better even after we stopped using it.
i hear people say this all the time and i prove them wrong every time i employ a click.
Don't get me wrong: practicing to a click is a good thing, since it strengthens timing.
But actual playing, especially performing or recording sounds a lot better without a click. It rather breathes in a human manner than sounding like a machine. Sure, parts can't be moved around, but to be honest: that's not what music should be about.
@@dennisk.3909 please tell us all what music should be about. I studied musicology and have been a musician for decades and yet no one has ever imparted this knowledge to me.
@@teebagz1
It is a thing of personal preferences. Especially in the aforementioned styles of folk and rock music slight adjustments to tempo are an integral part of the genre.
It's not about sloppy timing, rather enhancing the expression of a piece of music by meaningful changes of speed.
To answer your question: music should not be played in time to make production easy in the first place.😉
people dont play to a click track that iss KRAAAAY to me
Danny Carey refuses to use one and i dont think Tool uses one at all
@@RandomGuyCDN
And sounds the better for it.
First thing I noticed about Inoculum.
No shid-click. No quappy quantize.
How do you speed up and slow down a click track like an actual song??
It's pretty easy using Reaper and I would guess other other daws.
@@forphxsake2024
Or you could use your brain.
It's really quick to program.
All my opinions about people who can't play to a click are insults.
Those poor musicians who didn't have a click to play to. That's why Miles Davis sucked so bad
QUICK! To The Quantize Machine!
I hate them. They sound terrible and I can’t play to one. I have to use a drum loop so it at least sounds semi human.
Steely Dan ????
Amateurs.
@@KenDavis761 that was sarcasm, right?🤣
@@PlanetrightPro ;-)
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Your criticism of why people don’t like click tracks isn’t that they can’t play with them. That is a ridiculous and manipulative statement. The reason people reject click tracks is because it reduces or in many cases removes phrasing. Some musicians are very good at phrasing and adding a click track to those musicians can clip their wings and remove or reduce the magic that is their performances. If you believe the mixing engineer is more important than the performance…I believe that many people believe that today…then grid everything in…but it does not serve the recording if you have someone who can play a magical performance by phrasing but instead are going to produce a vanilla boring performance because the producers gridded in a too restrictive infrastructure ignoring the strengths of that player. A click track is just a tool to tighten up a song or recording…but sometimes tightening up the song or recording destroys the song or recording. I appreciate that you made the video…and appreciate that you make other mixing technique videos. I just thought you papered over the criticisms of using click tracks. Production is not a one dimensional thing. You either grid something in or you don’t. Based on if you need that infrastructure tool or not to bring out the best performances of that recording or song.
I agree that there are valid reasons to not use a click Track, but it is naïve to think that there are not a lot of people out there who do not use click tracks because they have not learned to play to a click. I’m in a unique position to hear hundreds of recordings from aspiring home studio musicians, so I’ve got a lot of data to back up what I’m saying. It’s not opinion. It’s my literal experience over the last 15 years of serving this community.
Yeah, it got way up my nose too.
As if musicians who can actually keep time, don't have spiritual objections, to the very point of performing, with lessened human element.
It sucks for some genres.. jazz, psych, improvy, folky, rocknroll stuff...
Klick is not hard to play with.. just boring and very ugly sounding. Really neat for a lot of other genres where you want things under control. I don't.. I like shit to fast and fucked up 😅
"Learn to play" is the rule with or without click. Tight playing does not depend on click or no click.
I have a lot of respect for you so I'm gonna hang around for the rest of the video but I'm a hard NO on the first minute. I think this is one of those areas that your judgement might be a bit skewed by the genera you specialize in. I could just as easily argue that you need a click track because you can't count... but I would never do that. Thankfully, a lot of music absolutely cannot be performed to a click and thankfully a lot of it isn't made for ease of editing. Clearly, a click track is golden and a huge help for a lot of situations, but if I had to listen to "click, click, click" all night long while performing, I would instantly lose any motivation and joy to do it.
It doesn’t have to be a click click click sound , you can be creative with the sound to make it feel better
I play to drums not a click track.Fuck click.
Good. Drummers job beyond playing is keeping the band time.
@@RandomGuyCDNThat’s not right. It is everyone’s job to keep time in a band. The drummer might establish the tempo at the start of the song. I am a bass player.
Can we get the last sentence on T-Shirts?
@@greenloungerecording9362
If everyone is keeping time, nobody is keeping time.
It doesn't have to be the drums. Some of them have a dodgy clock. But SOMEONE has to lead. And don't look at the singer. If not the Drummer, than probably the Bass.