I tested twenty 100 oz. RCM bars that I purchased online from SD Bullion on the day right after the April 15, 2013 gold market crash. I found the same problem with each of them - no ring sound. I used a screwdriver to test each on the edge of a table. I used a hammer to lightly strike each in a suspended plastic bag. Invariably they gave out a dull sound like a solid brick. Each has the exact official dimension and weight. Should I worry any of them is faked? No! I hid them away already.★★★★★
Rin/ping testing does not work very well on bars. They are often too massive to resonate well. Also note that the resonance frequency depends _highly_ on the size and shape of a bar. A ultrasound test is much better suited for testing bars.
Can you imagine while doing that, one of those silver bars falls over and onto the top of your foot while you're recording, and you start having the camera go all over the place while you're cussing about your foot?
Great video. Yes, there is not suppose to be any kind of material other than silver in a .999 or .9999 silver bar. I do not buy from ebay or private sellers unless I know their background. I buy my silvers from well known online dealers or the mint itself. Thank you for showing this. I hope you recovered any loss of the fake silver. Take the bar to several dealers and check them as they may have testing instruments to verify content.
2016 rcm bar doesn't ping either. After reading up I've come to the conclusion the ping test may not be reliable for these bars. Watch the video 'Silver Ring Test at the JH Mint,' they think a bar is fake and cut it in half only to find out it was pure silver.
The test you used doesn't prove anything, sorry. Some bars ping and some don't, just like coins. A positive ping test means it's silver. A negative ping test means nothing.
No magnet test? No ice test? Are the dimensions the same as what the rcm states they should be? Holding the bars and hitting them produce a better sound. You need more testing than this...
ping test still done today since bombs use shock insensitive explosives. The government actually uses a special mallet (they cost a little over 78,000 USD for each mallet) for these explosive validation mallets used to insure our nuclear arsenal are still ready for deployment.
thats why silver is such a great storage of wealth.... but one does need to know when to sell or trade for gold :) 2011 was the perfect time to sell silver at 50 or trade for gold when it was 2000 ...
To me that just means that its time to buy more. Your not gonna hit all your investments at the perfect price the long run you can average a median price over your investments.
And now it's only worth $1,500. Silver is a "great store of wealth." Yes, but only great for the person you are buying your silver from. He's taking your cash and buying Apple and Netflix and making 100% on his money. You and your silver are losing 50% of value in 10 years and almost incalculable economic loss (the loss of what your money could be worth).
9999 silver doesnt ring well. compare the maple to the eagle. probably because super pure silver is rigid. the more copper mixed in makes it resonate longer and higher pitch.
It looks highly suspicious to me. I'd be surprised that the RCM would release a bar with that big of a blemish on the back. I tested my 100 oz RCM bar that I got at the Toronto Precious Metals exchange and although it doesn't have a long ring (like the coins) you can definitely hear a faint distinctive ring. If your dealer swears it came directly from the mint then I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem exchanging it with another one that passes the ring est to your satisfaction.
PM me and we will talk ping is NOT DEFINETIVE. bars hav been destroyed due to a "failed" ping test and when cut open it was 100% pure silver so don't always go by that
Have you tried the magnet test? Search for "Magnet Test on a Real and Fake Engelhard 100oz Silver Bar" here on UA-cam. I don't know however how a silver plated pure copper bar will behave. A lead or brass bar the magnet will slide of very quickly. But a pure copper bar will slow it quite significantly too. At least the lead bars are very easy to identify that way.
You got ripped off! If you go to the alibaba website they fake more RCM bars (Gold or Silver) than any other manufacturer. Specific gravity is your best bet, but you got wrecked, post the dealer's name and address. Also RCM does not deal with two bit dealers, they only distribute to handful of main distributors in the US.
I would never use the ping test on big bars of varying sizes like this. Its for rounds and coins of known size, preferrably using a reference. These are valuable so you really want to know if they are real. Use the specific gravity test. Big old bars like this will give you nice accurate results.
@russellstall Yeah, I didn't meant to imply that he was trying to prove anything. I was just letting him know that the test he ran won't give us any information either way (ie: it proves nothing).
I saw a UTube from JH mint were they thought they had a fake one because it did not ring so they cut it in two and it was solid silver so the ring test may not be perfect.
I just ran into this video. The RCM is not cooperative when it comes to providing helpful Info. Two different phone calls, first one provided zero info, and didn't want to hear any of my concerns. When I called a second time, 10 minutes later, got a different representative, who after hearing my concerns said she'd pass the info along to her supervisor, and that he'd be calling me. Four months later, still haven't gotten a call. They don't care, it's really a caveat emptor situation.
Prop the bar up at a steep angle and drop a magnet on it...the magnet should ooze down it- slower than normal. But I'm not sure if it works if the coating is thick.
the company whos name is on the fake bars is not the company making the fake bars its the chinese and its the most trusted sellers thay are counterfieting,and yes there are lots of fake englehard bars out there
Ultrasonic thickness gauges (UTG) can detect these types of fakes. Ping test is not 100% reliable because sometimes even pure silver doesnt ping the way you would expect it to.
Hold at 45 degree angle and see if it's also magnetic - if should flow off nicely. I would also ask the dealer to do an acid test. There are too many counterfeit products in the markets. Ping test is okay but not definite.
Weigh them. Do a simple magnet test. Drop some acid on the silver plated ones that the dealer (or last seller) obviously did to find out they were fake (thus the acid hole you observed). Then video post the results for us. The weights should be identical, and the magnet tests together should be enough to confirm your suspicions...
I just checked the metal density tablet (in case he checked for density) silver has pretty close density to lead. I wonder if lead would pass a magnet test. Will it slow down the neodymic magnet just like silver does?
This is the exact reason I ONLY buy the newer Sunshine Silver bars with the Mint Mark SI VALID indicator on the back. I would sell them back to the dealer you got them from, and get Sunshine Bars if they have them. I am wondering why you didn't weigh your bars in your video. Selling fake bars is a big time felony, I am sure your dealer would buy them back if you had the police with you. Any updates?
You should perform a specific gravity test and if that is inconsistent then you need to contact RCM directly and arrange to have them verify conclusively with ultrasound, as well as alerting them to the vendor that sold you the bars in case they find something funny going on.
you could do the water displacement test. you can get directions on line, it's not very complicated. I hope it works out and your bars are not tungsten filled. Good luck.
My friend, in all seriousness, I'm not concerned with what you own. I don't care. But there is something you need to learn about money and people, NEVER blab to the world or complete strangers what you have or do not have in value. The internet is not as safe as you think it is. If nobody has taught you the importance of shutting up about your assets, I'm telling you right now. Never, Never, Never, Never tell people what you own.
I just bought 3 RCM 100oz bars, and like the first three shown, they don't really "ping". Any update on this? Has anyone contacted the mint for an official statement? Maybe they're all like this due to the way they're poured and cooled?
Heres the deal , with large bars it needs to be fully suspended , its sll in gravity . Tie a fishing line around the center creating the fulcrum point on the bar have a bit of length at least 2/3 ft then do the ping test . This is why i only buy pamp , valcambi . The best tried and true as long as its bought from a rep dealer .another way to test these bars is its density in water as other metals may weight close but can never fool water weight , useing water and measurements . Ultra sound costs
The bars you purchased that came from the mint have numbers on them. Verify through the mint that those bars were sold to the dealer you purchased them from.
I remember a water displacement test some people were doing to see if there was a core made of some other crap metals. Only two ways to find out if they are solid silver is the displacement test or drilling into the bar, i guess. Not an expert, though. hehe
I never put much faith in ring tests. Unless it's like an ultrawave test or something lie that to me it doesnt mean anything. I'll give you a hundred bucks for that one "fake" bar if your concerned with it LOL
Hmm, even volume testing and weighing it might not prove whether they are real or fake, I would imagine that such a large fake like that (especially from the rcm), would most likely be made of an alloy of heavier than silver (like tungston or lead) and lighter than silver (like tin or zinc) metals. That way you could get the exact density of silver with the right ratio. Finally with a coat of real silver for acid testing. Cutting one would be the only way to know for sure.
That's not entirely accurate, do it with the same striking force exerted on all objects. I use a guide with a metallic sphere taking advantage of the free fall of gravity 9.81 m / s2. Then I measure the sound spectrum comparing together different sound waves. All this is best done at room temperature between 20 and 22 degrees Celsius.
The Royal Canadian Mint is one of the most prestigious mints in the world, if not the best, I'd trust anything they make over any other mint. The RCM makes a 99.99999% gold Maple Leaf coin most other mints just make 91% or 99.999%, actually that's probably because the other mints are only able to make lower purity metals compared to the RCM..
Perhaps since the Canada mint bars are order of magnitude more pure than all the rest of the bars your test illustrates a tendency for the more pure ingots to crystallize into slightly stressed crystal boundaries, thus reducing the odds of single-crystal resonance harmonics. As you add impurities (i.e. the 999 bars) there is a greater chance of reduced-stress grain boundary formation which in turn would lend itself to more favorable and monolithic harmonics as you count on these things to resonate correctly upon impact. For the folks who mentioned tungsten nefariously being substituted for gold, spot on. Their densities are extremely similar (less than 0.2% difference), so dimensional check would be easier to fake. But lead substituting for silver?? It's about 8% more dense, you'd have to be very bad with a ruler or other density determination to make that kind of mistake. If there were lead in any of those it would be very obvious. Finally, I'll bet those bars would look interesting using ultrasonic imaging. You'll find more inclusions and bigger grain structure in the 3 soundless ones. One thing, why didn't you hit the ingots with the plastic end of the screwdriver? Seems like you could have wailed on them much harder without risking a dent in the bars. Cheers!
Would a .09% really change the "ping" that much? I dought it but i could be wrong, id like to buy a couple rcm bars and ping them myself.... You may be right,but i think they are lead filled.
Lead's quite a bit more dense than silver, so simple density calculations can prove or disprove that, just use volume of a trapezoidal cube and assume some loss for rounding. Plus if you get your silver from a reputable source it's going to be a stretch to find doctored silver. Maybe when it goes up to $500/oz there would be a reason but not at $15. The purity level affects things for sure, from my experience. It may not seem like a big amount of change when you do simple subtraction like that, but instead what's happening is removing impurities *by an order of magnitude*, thereby removing the atomic obstacles preventing the silver from forming ever larger and uninterrupted crystal networks. Things like crystal networks affect sound transmission, for sure. Another "purity" example in the world of materials engineering is the purity of alumina (just popped up recently 'cause I'm spec-ing out materials for a sensor right now). Just going from 99% to 99.8% purity gives you 14% extra thermal conductivity! (www.mcdanelceramics.com/alumina.html) Also alumina's strength goes up as it becomes more pure. I realize with silver we're discussing one decimal farther out, but with the "ting" should be expected to be of better quality from more pure stock material.
chugginbeers Yes, poured vs. extruded could have mildly different properties with enough to result in a different ting. Plus those two processes occur at different temperature profiles, and the morphology of the crystal lattice will be quite different as a result of the process. So two things are working towards a different sound. Thanks for the compliment! Cheers, I like beer too! :D
+Chemist BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, do specific gravity, it will tell you what you need to know without destroying the bars, then call the local DA and file a police report. The "Reputable" dealer will beg to give your money back when he faces felony charges for theft and other things.
@dregsta I've just made a purchase of 1 oz. silver bars and they were more than $38 bucks. It cost me bout $44 an once. Wish I had bought it back in 2010, I could've got it for $20 I believe according to some of the people that have commented on youtube.
Mint orders to dealers still use couriers. You gotta figure anytime there is a separation from what you are purchasing and the product in your hand the magic is in the receiving exactly what you ordered and not a counterfeit. I.E. Expect to be counterfeited.
US Silver Eagles "ring". Using my own stack, I can get them to ring with my hands. If you are a silver noob, make your Silver Eagles ring this way - Take an un-sharpened wood pencil. Gently toss the Eagle up into the blunt edge of the pencil, so that the Eagle strikes the pencil in mid-air and bounces back down in your hand. THAT COIN WILL RING GUARANTEED! If it doesn't, it's a fake.
I'm not enough of an expert to say for sure, but that last one sounds much different. I'd cut into one of the bars you suspect is fraudulent. Make sure you get it on video for insurance purposes. Keep us updated. I hope it's real.
Bolts Nuts Bolts Nuts You Got Screwed!!!! Hopefully they have a return policy... One other thing you can use is with a Neo Magnet. Hold the bar at a 45 degree angle and place a small Neodenium Magnet at the top and let is slide down the bar. Silver, though not magnetic, will interact with the magnetic field and cause it slide slowly down the bar. Fake bars, the magnet will slide fast like you had put it on a piece of plastic or wood, worst case it will stick to it. Good Luck!!
I better ping test is to place center your bar on a quarter on a hard surface then tap the bar if you get a nice ping you should be alright if not your screwed.
I'm sorry but I simply can't understand you. I've seen the fake gold bar you're talking about, and I've seen many other fake gold bars in the past as well. I can't see how it has anything to do with the comment I made on this video about silver bars.
A ring test is unreliable because of the way castings are made. You can have a bad casting that will not "ring out" , but for all intensive purposes it is just as valuable due to its weight concerning precious metals. But for machining and construction, a bad casting is unacceptable because they are inherently weaker than a good casting of steel, brass, aluminum etc.....
I tested twenty 100 oz. RCM bars that I purchased online from SD Bullion on the day right after the April 15, 2013 gold market crash. I found the same problem with each of them - no ring sound. I used a screwdriver to test each on the edge of a table. I used a hammer to lightly strike each in a suspended plastic bag. Invariably they gave out a dull sound like a solid brick. Each has the exact official dimension and weight. Should I worry any of them is faked? No! I hid them away already.★★★★★
Rin/ping testing does not work very well on bars. They are often too massive to resonate well. Also note that the resonance frequency depends _highly_ on the size and shape of a bar.
A ultrasound test is much better suited for testing bars.
take extreme caution and dispose of those fake bars immediately. Send them to me and I will take care of this mess for you. no charge.
What's the prognosis, dude? What happened on these? Was the source really as questionable as the ping on those RCM's.
Can you imagine while doing that, one of those silver bars falls over and onto the top of your foot while you're recording, and you start having the camera go all over the place while you're cussing about your foot?
Great video. Yes, there is not suppose to be any kind of material other than silver in a .999 or .9999 silver bar. I do not buy from ebay or private sellers unless I know their background. I buy my silvers from well known online dealers or the mint itself. Thank you for showing this. I hope you recovered any loss of the fake silver. Take the bar to several dealers and check them as they may have testing instruments to verify content.
2016 rcm bar doesn't ping either. After reading up I've come to the conclusion the ping test may not be reliable for these bars. Watch the video 'Silver Ring Test at the JH Mint,' they think a bar is fake and cut it in half only to find out it was pure silver.
I watched that video, and laughed so hard! I asked if I could get if for half price! lol
Ping test is not accurate in silver bars.
The test you used doesn't prove anything, sorry. Some bars ping and some don't, just like coins. A positive ping test means it's silver. A negative ping test means nothing.
No magnet test? No ice test? Are the dimensions the same as what the rcm states they should be? Holding the bars and hitting them produce a better sound. You need more testing than this...
I highly recommend using the ice test
We used to ping test bombs back in the day to find duds... Good times !
ping test still done today since bombs use shock insensitive explosives. The government actually uses a special mallet (they cost a little over 78,000 USD for each mallet) for these explosive validation mallets used to insure our nuclear arsenal are still ready for deployment.
for anyone that can't hear the ping in your silver bars i'll be glad to take them from you FREE!
That's brutal. Those bars are like 2 grand each. Unfortunately your dealer is going to tell you it's real, whether he's scamming you or not.
Wow. At the time of this video those bars (if real) were worth about $3000 each. Today they are worth about $1600 each. That's a $1,400 loss per bar!
thats why silver is such a great storage of wealth.... but one does need to know when to sell or trade for gold :) 2011 was the perfect time to sell silver at 50 or trade for gold when it was 2000 ...
TroyOunce you're correct, but did you hear that Deutsch bank is being fined for manipulating the silver price
To me that just means that its time to buy more. Your not gonna hit all your investments at the perfect price the long run you can average a median price over your investments.
TroyOunce I’ll buy them all right now
And now it's only worth $1,500. Silver is a "great store of wealth." Yes, but only great for the person you are buying your silver from. He's taking your cash and buying Apple and Netflix and making 100% on his money. You and your silver are losing 50% of value in 10 years and almost incalculable economic loss (the loss of what your money could be worth).
Follow up m8. we all need to know if there are fake RMC bars out there so we dont get stung.
Thnx for the vid.
Regards Hawkwood23
9999 silver doesnt ring well. compare the maple to the eagle. probably because super pure silver is rigid. the more copper mixed in makes it resonate longer and higher pitch.
It looks highly suspicious to me. I'd be surprised that the RCM would release a bar with that big of a blemish on the back.
I tested my 100 oz RCM bar that I got at the Toronto Precious Metals exchange and although it doesn't have a long ring (like the coins) you can definitely hear a faint distinctive ring.
If your dealer swears it came directly from the mint then I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem exchanging it with another one that passes the ring est to your satisfaction.
Does the fact that RCM is purer, 9999, than the other bars affect the ping?
PM me and we will talk ping is NOT DEFINETIVE. bars hav been destroyed due to a "failed" ping test and when cut open it was 100% pure silver so don't always go by that
WISH I READ THIS BEFORE I MADE MY COMMENT , DO YOU HAVE PROOF , FOR THE PING TEST I MEAN
and STOP buying silver from ebay .
Have you tried the magnet test?
Search for "Magnet Test on a Real and Fake Engelhard 100oz Silver Bar" here on UA-cam.
I don't know however how a silver plated pure copper bar will behave. A lead or brass bar the magnet will slide of very quickly. But a pure copper bar will slow it quite significantly too. At least the lead bars are very easy to identify that way.
You got ripped off! If you go to the alibaba website they fake more RCM bars (Gold or Silver) than any other manufacturer. Specific gravity is your best bet, but you got wrecked, post the dealer's name and address. Also RCM does not deal with two bit dealers, they only distribute to handful of main distributors in the US.
I would never use the ping test on big bars of varying sizes like this. Its for rounds and coins of known size, preferrably using a reference. These are valuable so you really want to know if they are real. Use the specific gravity test. Big old bars like this will give you nice accurate results.
Update ?
@russellstall
Yeah, I didn't meant to imply that he was trying to prove anything. I was just letting him know that the test he ran won't give us any information either way (ie: it proves nothing).
Also, silver can be electrically charged to become pretty magnetic, like most other metals.
Interesting, thanks for sharing
I saw a UTube from JH mint were they thought they had a fake one because it did not ring so they cut it in two and it was solid silver so the ring test may not be perfect.
Did you drill into those other bars that were suspected of being fake? What did you find out?
1966Hemi426 i think the dark spot tells
+Dave Silver The dark spot is graphite. It's residue left over from the molds they are casted in.
I call BS on this video... you posted a video on YT rather than informing the RCM or the police?
+VisualAssault2011 why not both?
From my experience , with a 1 0z gold lingot, RCM do not answer your e-mail
I just ran into this video. The RCM is not cooperative when it comes to providing helpful Info. Two different phone calls, first one provided zero info, and didn't want to hear any of my concerns. When I called a second time, 10 minutes later, got a different representative, who after hearing my concerns said she'd pass the info along to her supervisor, and that he'd be calling me. Four months later, still haven't gotten a call. They don't care, it's really a caveat emptor situation.
Prop the bar up at a steep angle and drop a magnet on it...the magnet should ooze down it- slower than normal. But I'm not sure if it works if the coating is thick.
Are all the weights the same? Try doing a specific gravity test. Ultrasound it or just drill it to make sure.
the company whos name is on the fake bars is not the company making the fake bars its the chinese and its the most trusted sellers thay are counterfieting,and yes there are lots of fake englehard bars out there
Think it would work best if you tied them to a string and beat on them.
The shape contributes to most of the ringing.
Ultrasonic thickness gauges (UTG) can detect these types of fakes. Ping test is not 100% reliable because sometimes even pure silver doesnt ping the way you would expect it to.
This is 3 years old - and still NO UPDATE on whether they are real or fake. Post the final results - PLEASE !!!!!
CaseModVideos 3 years lattet
The bar with the rust color (4th) bar on the table,had the most different sound than the other ones.
Those three are fake for sure. I can tell just by looking at them also.
I thought your Heraeus was fishy looking, but it sounds good.
+Richard's World No, the Heraeus was fishy for sure, it sounded filled with a layer of silver.
Water displacement test
That RCM is likely real.....RCM's are known for not pinging.
thank you for sharing !!!!!!!!!!
Hold at 45 degree angle and see if it's also magnetic - if should flow off nicely. I would also ask the dealer to do an acid test. There are too many counterfeit products in the markets.
Ping test is okay but not definite.
Weigh them. Do a simple magnet test. Drop some acid on the silver plated ones that the dealer (or last seller) obviously did to find out they were fake (thus the acid hole you observed). Then video post the results for us. The weights should be identical, and the magnet tests together should be enough to confirm your suspicions...
I just checked the metal density tablet (in case he checked for density) silver has pretty close density to lead. I wonder if lead would pass a magnet test. Will it slow down the neodymic magnet just like silver does?
This is the exact reason I ONLY buy the newer Sunshine Silver bars with the Mint Mark SI VALID indicator on the back. I would sell them back to the dealer you got them from, and get Sunshine Bars if they have them. I am wondering why you didn't weigh your bars in your video. Selling fake bars is a big time felony, I am sure your dealer would buy them back if you had the police with you. Any updates?
Ugh ,Im sick at my stomach now ...I know you must be ! Good luck with that and thanks for posting this .
You should perform a specific gravity test and if that is inconsistent then you need to contact RCM directly and arrange to have them verify conclusively with ultrasound, as well as alerting them to the vendor that sold you the bars in case they find something funny going on.
you could do the water displacement test. you can get directions on line, it's not very complicated. I hope it works out and your bars are not tungsten filled. Good luck.
My friend, in all seriousness, I'm not concerned with what you own. I don't care. But there is something you need to learn about money and people, NEVER blab to the world or complete strangers what you have or do not have in value. The internet is not as safe as you think it is. If nobody has taught you the importance of shutting up about your assets, I'm telling you right now. Never, Never, Never, Never tell people what you own.
that is why I stick to small ounces bar. Less risk
can we go this test on gold bar?
i hope you make a follow up video about the efficacy of the ring test in telling the authenticity of silver
I just bought 3 RCM 100oz bars, and like the first three shown, they don't really "ping". Any update on this?
Has anyone contacted the mint for an official statement? Maybe they're all like this due to the way they're poured and cooled?
Hi, how did you go on testing? what came out?
Heres the deal , with large bars it needs to be fully suspended , its sll in gravity . Tie a fishing line around the center creating the fulcrum point on the bar have a bit of length at least 2/3 ft then do the ping test . This is why i only buy pamp , valcambi . The best tried and true as long as its bought from a rep dealer .another way to test these bars is its density in water as other metals may weight close but can never fool water weight , useing water and measurements . Ultra sound costs
You should also do a weight and magnetic test on those 3 bars .
Very informative...
Subbed!
I like the ring of the silver for sure bar....reminds me of the sound of real silver coin hitting a hard surface..
Neodymium magnet test them, and measure the dimensions.
The bars you purchased that came from the mint have numbers on them. Verify through the mint that those bars were sold to the dealer you purchased them from.
No, they don't. The purest coin they make is the 99999 Gold Coin - Mountain Avens
ring test is only 90%.... they can form with a mixed molecular structure from melt.. and they won't ring. Typical of 'late' pour or mixed pour bars.
I remember a water displacement test some people were doing to see if there was a core made of some other crap metals. Only two ways to find out if they are solid silver is the displacement test or drilling into the bar, i guess. Not an expert, though. hehe
Its very clear that the 3 bars are a lead/silver mixture,coaded with silver.
Deliver them bach asap.if they refuse, report them for fraud. Period.
I never put much faith in ring tests. Unless it's like an ultrawave test or something lie that to me it doesnt mean anything. I'll give you a hundred bucks for that one "fake" bar if your concerned with it LOL
@0muffins0 thanks man much appreciated you think silver will go to 38$ a oz this year?
Nope
Hmm, even volume testing and weighing it might not prove whether they are real or fake, I would imagine that such a large fake like that (especially from the rcm), would most likely be made of an alloy of heavier than silver (like tungston or lead) and lighter than silver (like tin or zinc) metals. That way you could get the exact density of silver with the right ratio. Finally with a coat of real silver for acid testing. Cutting one would be the only way to know for sure.
Where did you get the bars from?
Please update on what these are.
All of Your Silver Bars are Pure Silver! Your Ring Test is not an Fire Assay.
That's not entirely accurate, do it with the same striking force exerted on all objects. I use a guide with a metallic sphere taking advantage of the free fall of gravity 9.81 m / s2. Then I measure the sound spectrum comparing together different sound waves. All this is best done at room temperature between 20 and 22 degrees Celsius.
The Royal Canadian Mint is one of the most prestigious mints in the world, if not the best, I'd trust anything they make over any other mint. The RCM makes a 99.99999% gold Maple Leaf coin most other mints just make 91% or 99.999%, actually that's probably because the other mints are only able to make lower purity metals compared to the RCM..
Perhaps since the Canada mint bars are order of magnitude more pure than all the rest of the bars your test illustrates a tendency for the more pure ingots to crystallize into slightly stressed crystal boundaries, thus reducing the odds of single-crystal resonance harmonics. As you add impurities (i.e. the 999 bars) there is a greater chance of reduced-stress grain boundary formation which in turn would lend itself to more favorable and monolithic harmonics as you count on these things to resonate correctly upon impact.
For the folks who mentioned tungsten nefariously being substituted for gold, spot on. Their densities are extremely similar (less than 0.2% difference), so dimensional check would be easier to fake. But lead substituting for silver?? It's about 8% more dense, you'd have to be very bad with a ruler or other density determination to make that kind of mistake. If there were lead in any of those it would be very obvious.
Finally, I'll bet those bars would look interesting using ultrasonic imaging. You'll find more inclusions and bigger grain structure in the 3 soundless ones.
One thing, why didn't you hit the ingots with the plastic end of the screwdriver? Seems like you could have wailed on them much harder without risking a dent in the bars.
Cheers!
Would a .09% really change the "ping" that much? I dought it but i could be wrong, id like to buy a couple rcm bars and ping them myself.... You may be right,but i think they are lead filled.
Lead's quite a bit more dense than silver, so simple density calculations can prove or disprove that, just use volume of a trapezoidal cube and assume some loss for rounding. Plus if you get your silver from a reputable source it's going to be a stretch to find doctored silver. Maybe when it goes up to $500/oz there would be a reason but not at $15.
The purity level affects things for sure, from my experience. It may not seem like a big amount of change when you do simple subtraction like that, but instead what's happening is removing impurities *by an order of magnitude*, thereby removing the atomic obstacles preventing the silver from forming ever larger and uninterrupted crystal networks. Things like crystal networks affect sound transmission, for sure.
Another "purity" example in the world of materials engineering is the purity of alumina (just popped up recently 'cause I'm spec-ing out materials for a sensor right now). Just going from 99% to 99.8% purity gives you 14% extra thermal conductivity! (www.mcdanelceramics.com/alumina.html) Also alumina's strength goes up as it becomes more pure. I realize with silver we're discussing one decimal farther out, but with the "ting" should be expected to be of better quality from more pure stock material.
chugginbeers Yes, poured vs. extruded could have mildly different properties with enough to result in a different ting. Plus those two processes occur at different temperature profiles, and the morphology of the crystal lattice will be quite different as a result of the process. So two things are working towards a different sound. Thanks for the compliment! Cheers, I like beer too! :D
You're welcome. Now to find those damn 100oz bars...www.providentmetals.com/100-oz-rcm-royal-canadian-mint-9999-silver-bar.html
+Chemist BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, do specific gravity, it will tell you what you need to know without destroying the bars, then call the local DA and file a police report. The "Reputable" dealer will beg to give your money back when he faces felony charges for theft and other things.
Any updates?
drill in 3 areas on the back side of the three suspect bars at least 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep and see what material comes out.
i have a stenless flange for turbo here, and it got the same PITCH.. im confuse
Hey I live in Toronto and just bought an RCM 100Oz. Bar. Any suggestions as how to how I can verify its authenticity?
Cheers :)
@dregsta I've just made a purchase of 1 oz. silver bars and they were more than $38 bucks. It cost me bout $44 an once. Wish I had bought it back in 2010, I could've got it for $20 I believe according to some of the people that have commented on youtube.
Try flipping then on their sides. Hopefully there is too much surface area and grip making those things sound dead inside. Let me know if you try.
do specific gravity test
Mint orders to dealers still use couriers. You gotta figure anytime there is a separation from what you are purchasing and the product in your hand the magic is in the receiving exactly what you ordered and not a counterfeit. I.E. Expect to be counterfeited.
Interesting vid! :D
Keep em comeing
what was the outcome of this whole thing?
US Silver Eagles "ring". Using my own stack, I can get them to ring with my hands. If you are a silver noob, make your Silver Eagles ring this way - Take an un-sharpened wood pencil. Gently toss the Eagle up into the blunt edge of the pencil, so that the Eagle strikes the pencil in mid-air and bounces back down in your hand. THAT COIN WILL RING GUARANTEED! If it doesn't, it's a fake.
I just noticed the loud ping of a Morgan compared to silver eagle
you should buy silver from a real dealer not eBay
I have the exact same sound with 2/3 of RCM bars and I really don't like it.
I say fake , Drill into it and test it. thanks for the info
I'm not enough of an expert to say for sure, but that last one sounds much different. I'd cut into one of the bars you suspect is fraudulent. Make sure you get it on video for insurance purposes. Keep us updated. I hope it's real.
lettering is messed up on the emblem. I would send it off to reputable dealer for ultrasonic testing.
Any update ? Were they real or no ?
how many bars do you have know
You'd be a better result if you balance the gar in the center on the end of your fingertip. It gives a better ring.
This dude is on denial
Bolts Nuts Bolts Nuts You Got Screwed!!!! Hopefully they have a return policy... One other thing you can use is with a Neo Magnet. Hold the bar at a 45 degree angle and place a small Neodenium Magnet at the top and let is slide down the bar. Silver, though not magnetic, will interact with the magnetic field and cause it slide slowly down the bar. Fake bars, the magnet will slide fast like you had put it on a piece of plastic or wood, worst case it will stick to it. Good Luck!!
do a water displacement test ,put a good bar in water find the level then do it again.or drill a few holes then test the insides
archimedes test
Mcwidow Probaply doesnt work if they mixed the right stuff in it.
1:05
999.9% silver. That is almost ten times more than that regular pure silver bullion!
Lost Beetle 999.9/1000th
999.9% don't make sense lol
I better ping test is to place center your bar on a quarter on a hard surface then tap the bar if you get a nice ping you should be alright if not your screwed.
I'm sorry but I simply can't understand you. I've seen the fake gold bar you're talking about, and I've seen many other fake gold bars in the past as well. I can't see how it has anything to do with the comment I made on this video about silver bars.
A ring test is unreliable because of the way castings are made. You can have a bad casting that will not "ring out" , but for all intensive purposes it is just as valuable due to its weight concerning precious metals.
But for machining and construction, a bad casting is unacceptable because they are inherently weaker than a good casting of steel, brass, aluminum etc.....