As a Tesla driver and engineer, I can hardly express how much I love this channel. Please keep it up! These insights can not be found anywhere else and are just great for the interested tech nerd
All of this wouldn’t ever be shown to public without Munro. I don’t understand most of it but it’s fascinating to see the complexity that goes into manufacturing
Corey, you are getting much better at this. I enjoyed hearing you compare and contrast with other manufacturers, what is good and what is bad, why do they do it this way versus another way, what do you see that is surprising, what is a mistake, etc. Thank you for your insights.
I totally agree, what you have done to propel Sandy into our world has been beneficial to everyone including myself, just wish I was 40 years younger! I honestly believe you are setting sparks of encoragement into our youth and their futures, which is all of our futures! great job to everyone at Munroe
Truly, one of the best-spent uses of my time available on YT. In almost every instance, I walk away from your videos having learned something useful. Thanks for putting in the hard work so that we can benefit!
I love this show thank you so much for all your hard work I really appreciate what you and your team do to make this channel so informative and entertaining. Thanks again ❤️🙏🏽❤️🙏🏽
Fantastic work guys! Thanks for doing the horrible job of splitting this apart then explaining, so we can all appreciate the incredible technology and packaging that has gone into it.
This is in dire need of a 3D model that can be shown layer by layer, section by section so that we can see more clearly how it is all put together. That's probably a good project for an enthusiast that wants to study the footage and create the model, similar to the community Starship and Raptor models. Awesome tear down !!
Another UA-camr, The Limiting Factor, got a pre-production 4680 cell and sent it to researchers at UC San Diego for tear down and has the full 4hr teardown condensed down into a 1hr video on his channel. It would be interesting to see if there are any significant changes in the production cell, though not sure Munro will go into that level of detail on UA-cam. The shell of the 4680 cell is much thicker than a 2170 cell, likely due to it being intended as a structural pack design. The researchers had a heck of a time cutting the through the shell, much like Munro is having a heck of a time disassembling the pack.
The Limiting Factor plans to buy one of the cells from Munro Live, do a tear-down of it, and report what differences it has, if any, from the older cell. I'm not sure what the time frame will be for that tear-down and reporting.
The cells themselves aren't structural - all that "pink foam" precludes that... Thermodynamics and containing "runaway events with a lower SurfArea to Volume ration will necessitate thicker casing... lol.. Ay research institute who can't cut a steel case, isn't trying... Obv, Triolled - for good reason... lol... jk..have a great day.
Define "structural"? Is the car a noodle without the pack bolted on? There was supposed to be weight savings, but the loss in energy capacity seems to be greater than the reported 9 kgs.
@@kadmow Well it would be easy if you didn’t care about destroying it, but to do it properly requires doing it in a sealed glove box with no oxygen with all manual tools. Makes it a lot more difficult.
I can see the headlines now… “Expert Engineer in Fan Favorite Teardown claims Tesla’s new Battery Pack contains “Foam of Death” Lol You guys are great, excellent video! We are all rooting for your enduring success! (We all loved seeing Sandy being complimented by the Ford Ceo, very emotional) Thank you!
I can tell you about the flammability of the 5 gallons of Ethanol Glycol. It's highly flammable. Especially when it's hot from supercharging or hard driving.
so what about the relay? the fuse? if those fail you replace the whole pack?? from what i've seen so far. relay and fuse are inside the pink stuff that's so hard to get out.
Remember that the top of the pack is welded to the bottom of the pack and the seats are mounted to it. You would basically have to destroy the pack to get inside of it.
@@eddiegardner8232 yeah that's my question. what if the fuse or the relay goes bad and you're out of warranty. you have to pay 20k to repalce the whole pack just for a relay or fuse???
Structural meaning, you just scrap it as one brick? It's a thick one, but apart from saving parts, what else does it? It's just a pack with cells and its bolted to a car. Just, it lacks a triple "floor", only has 2.
@@Cloxxki I think they decided to throw repair-ability out the door with this and just optimize the heck out of it for manufacturing,cost & performance. This pack is not made to repair. If anything goes bad, you throw it out, it gets recycled to elements. Now for customers, it depends on Tesla's manufacturing prowess for this pack to last 8-10 years and get max return on investment.
@@Cloxxki wrote "... but apart from saving parts, what else does it [do]? ..." In a conventional battery pack, the cells are basically just sitting more or less loosely packed on the floor of the pack, with just enough structural connection to keep them in place. They are dead weight that needs to be carried by the outer casing, which typically needs to be reinforced with beams placed inside the pack between the cells for sufficient strength and rigidity. In this structural pack, every single cell is firmly bonded to both the top and bottom casing. So every single cell is contributing strength and rigidity to the pack. This eliminates the need for internal reinforcement beams, which allows room for more cells, and/or a more compact pack, and/or more crumple zone at the edges of the pack. Also, as a side benefit, the greater rigidity improves the ride and handling.
I needed one of those cells in the 80's to power my walkman. Silliness aside, it is very exciting to watch all the progress being made and thank you guys for making this educational content for all of us.
I like watching different Munro presenters but could there be a quick bio for him or her as part of their intro? It says Antonio is a sr engineer but what is his background and speciality?
46 cells in parallel for the 2170 pack. The 4680 cells are supposed to be 5 times the capacity f the 2170 so 46 ÷ 5 = 9.2 So 9 cells is close. Taking into account that the 4680 is 15% more efficient, it could be only 8 in parallel. The 2170 pack is 96 'modules' in series. If this pack is 828 cells then 828 ÷ 9 = 92 in series as opposed to 96 of the 2170's in series. But with lower internal resistance, the pack should behave as if it has more cells in series.
Is there a drawback from having fewer cells in parallel? That one defective cell would have a bigger impact on battery pack performance? And maybe that's why they went with nine, when they could have gotten away with eight?
@Munro Live So what happened to current fusing per cell seen in all previous Tesla battery packs? .. Its still there!! .. But now incorporated into the current collector as a series of ‘blade-fuses’ making up each ‘fork’ shown in the video above, thereby eliminating the manufacturing process of individually wiring a fuse-able link from each cell cap to a common connector. Its mentioned in the original 2019 patent #20190312251 linked here www.freepatentsonline.com/20190312251.pdf Re-reading it reveals the answer :- Look at Paragraph [35] and the diagrams where it states “ _In addition, the fuse functionality can be also put into the current collector, thereby eliminating significant complexity in the construction of the battery system disclosed herein_ .” And there it is folks !
Yep, I saw the same. Kinda blows the "OMG they can't "repair" the pack!!!!" speculation out of the water, doesn't it? Power electronics? In the "Penthouse" (that'll be under the back seat 🤔) "Cell fails"? (Hey everyone, try reading the info they gave you years ago??) Fuse blows. You lose 1/864th (0.116%) of capacity.... 😱😱😱 . Who needs reminding that ICE loses huge amounts of power over time?
Congratulations after 4 days you got 2 cells out and you don't even talk about the voltages or anything, . Special. 600 cells. . Glue glue glue laser weld laser weld pink urethane, white stuff. I bet i can google more info.. This is so well designed bla bla bla.. LOL. For rich people that can afford to trade in disposable cars. . You all explained more about that anker battery pack. That your promoting and gave more tech info on that. Than you did on the model Y pack. But i guess still some good info. I watched the plaid model S Teardown. After i posted this comment.. thats a good explanation. Maybe you will get to that . With this teardown.
It looks to me like replacing individual cells or even modules is not on. This was never easy even on my 7 year old Model S battery but it would appear that not easy has moved to not possible. Such is progress I guess.
Definitely NOT a serviceable pack.. The S was to a degree. I've seen Gruber Automotive do some videos on that. You could cut and isolate a bad cell pretty easy, and replace sections. I think the in the 2170 battery packs you could also replace sections, but not get access to individual cells. IF the pack is going to actually last 1 million miles.. Its not an issue. If its NOT going to last that long and suffer similar issues to the Model S packs.. Then these cars may not have much value in the used market once they get significant miles and years on them. Nobody is gonna buy one of these when there 15 years old.. with that level of risk.. of a battery failure... maybe pack prices fall to the point its not so bad.. then it will be fine... say in the $3-5K range. I have NO fear to buy a used Toyota Prius, or Camry. Even with high miles.. an engine or trans failure is still reparable.. used engines are available and anyone with some tools and skills can swap one. Or if not a shop can do it for $3-5K range.
5:37 Corey is this an Anker paid test? Sandy, Corey, I have no connection to these guys, very interested in comparison to this products, please Renogy Lycan product
The EV conversion shops won't be able to do much with this battery pack. If a vehicle with this pack gets totalled, the pack either needs to be used whole or go straight to the recycler. Obviously that's not Tesla's concern - they just want to make a profit on new cars. But mass use of this pack by Tesla will have effects downstream on conversion shops, homebrew solar shops, insurers, auto wreckers, and the battery recycling industry, which is still not very developed.
There need not be a huge reduction in failures in order to make up for the lack of repairability and reusability from an environmental perspective, and this looks like a step up in reliability to me. As far as recycling goes, it should be almost as easy to run a large pack through a schredder as a smaller one.
That was patently obvious at Battery Day. Any conversion shop shocked and surprised by this really shouldnt be trusted to be doing this kind of work. And from Teslas' perspective, not having people using thier modules in hotrods is a safety/legal plus.
@@patreekotime4578 I didn't expect it to be serviceable but expected the pack to have to be cut out of a chassis. Turns out it's a simple bolt-on your a chassis without a floor in it. I'm underwhelmed. The thing is thick and the specs do far lackluster. Cheap to make sure but Tesla never share such savings with customers. Look at the price of a Model S.
@@Cloxxki The manufacturing approach for the Model S is totally different. If Munro analyse this and give it the thumbs up as an amazing advance in EV manufacturing I reckon I'll take their word for it. What's the problem with a removeable pack ... don't you think you want the possibility of a replacement? Alternatively they could ultimately move to a welded approach once they have confirmed that in practice they don't need to swap out any packs.
There's something is not talking yet... this structural battery pack is supposed to be for the long-range, all the cells are there, it is full already? Am I wrong? But, according to some persons, for now, it is only a software blocking to don’t use all the cells? Because Tesla seems to not build the long-range yet with the 4680... thanx for your time.
@@kadmow Can you imagine in 15-20 years? "We're making so many that the cost is down to 50%.... Oh btw, the raw material costs moving forward will be down to 20% of 2022 due to recycling over the next 5 years....."
You sir know how to properly assess what you see. I’m in the cell division and these 4680 cells are being designed like no other battery out there. Tesla will make them leakproof for life.
I’ll answer your question, the machines used to make 4680 cells are ground breaking all new. Currently engineers are still on the production line tweaking and mastering the process before scaling begins. Engineers coming from out of the country for this. Source; employee.
As you increase the diameter the area increases by pi r squared and the circumference increases by 2 pi r. This means you have much more volume than you have increased outer shell in a larger diameter battery. This means the outer shell can be made of thicker metal and thereby the battery becomes more rigid. Additionally the contents are semi-dry which also is more rigid. By joining these rigid batteries together you get a rigid pack.
Anker? I wanna see Dr. Sue approve your product before I make any purchase decision. Thanks to Mr. Munro’s better half, I’m getting the best shaves I’ve ever had! And, my brother is waiting for his 👍🏼 Just sayin - eh
9 cells in parallel. The shape of the current collector is critical for getting the most energy out of the pack. This thin flat material has some sheet resistance so, when the cell group is under load, the current through each cell is slightly different from the others. While discharging, the cell with the most current will reach full discharge first, forcing the BMS to end discharge while it's neighbors still have charge that can't be used. And durring charging, the cell with the most current will reach max charge first, forcing the BMS to end charging while it's neighbors could still be charged more. You should do a DC Finite Element Analysis (FEA) of this under max load; I think the results would be very interesting.
@@alexforget Exactly. But I know from experience that getting it just right can be very challenging. That's why a FEA would be interesting, because it would show exactly how well they did this.
Forgot to say, the current collector needs to: 1) provide just enough series resistance for each cell to swamp the small cell-to-cell variations in internal resistance, and 2) keep the mutual resistance (yes, that's a thing) low enough for good current matching at max charge/discharge current. The temperature coefficient of resistance of the alloy may also be a significant factor.
Yes, but what does it help Ford? When they start today developing such a pack they need at least 2-3 years until it could go into production. Thats 2-3 years + 5 years for the rest of the car - the first structural battery pack from Ford, VW, GM etc. may come not earlier than 2026-2028. BYD has one, currently no one else. Lets see if those structural packs are the next best thing or are just one other feature of Tesla nobody can duplicate.
Munro Live team has to get a hold of a BYD with the Blade battery and do a comparison with the 4680 battery pack and systems , both i believe are cutting edge ,the 4680 might have an edge w/ density .
Or the new catl quilin cell to pack, cell to chassis lfpm format batteries. Supposedly those are more energy dense than even the 4680s by about 13% per catl claims anyway. The new lotus eletre is gonna feature that pack later this year.
It's not virtue signaling if you have a Tesla that is a couple of years old and because of one or two bad cells the whole battery has reduced performance. So the whole car has to be scrapped because Tesla charges so much for a battery replacement? With the old battery packs there's aftermarket shops that go into the pack and replace the bad cells so the car isn't totaled. With the new unserviceable pack we're back to scrapped cars over battery issues again. Concern for this isn't virtue signalling, it's cost benefit analysis. I've got a Cybertruck on order but I may go ahead and buy a ICE truck because I'm going to wait to see how this IMPORTANT issue plays out.
Hmmm… I just don't know about this 4680 "structural" pack. The modules and cells don't seem very "salvageable." What I'm most curious to know is whether or not the team has been able to determine if there are missing cells, or "blanks," in that pack to explain why the range is only 279 miles…? Or is it that the pack is actually full of 4680 cells, but Tesla is limiting the range via software…? It's a mystery.
Why would you "salvage" it? Use the whole pack for stable storage projects or recycle it. The guys who hotrod ICE cars with Tesla modules need to find a different supplier, but any of them worth doing business with understood that on Battery Day.
Someone explained on Twitter (and I believe Elon confirmed) that the process of recycling these packs will be to basically treat them like high-quality ore and just grind them up into fine particles that are then separated and re-used as raw materials.
@@patreekotime4578 stop justifying nonsense and grow up! Why wouldn’t he salvage those batteries cells!? What a dumb question!!!! All battery cells/modules are used for all kinds of applications! The 4680 could work very well if packaged different on other projects!
most of those coils are not for power conversion they are just filters, common mode chokes in the DC lines, nice to see that they try to comply with EMI and EMC
@@heinrichhein2605 I did watch the video, although at double speed to make it tolerable. Since the video is about the battery, specifically the current collectors, I skipped the advertisement for the device that the sponsor is having them flog, from 5:37 to 7:08... which indeed has coils, presumably as filter elements. Sorry for the confusion.
One thing that does bother me somewhat with the design when thinking about full lifecycle of products, is the additional effort required to reuse or recycle at end of life - any thoughts on that side of things ?
Great question I was thinking the same thing, I wonder if there is a way to chemically dissolve that "Foam Of Death" by dipping the whole cell pack. The underlying silicone adhesives should be easy to remove with solvents, not great for the planet but better than sending the pack to a landfill.
Appreciate the insightful video as always! One thing I would love to hear your insight on is moving from wire bonding to direct welding of the collector plate. The tiny wire-bonds are individual cell level fuses to cut out potentially short-circuited cells. It is an important low level safety feature. Really curious to know how they are achieving that in the 4680 pack. Is the fuse inside the cell or does the weld itself act as a fuse?
Probably less chance of short circuited cells by design and the larger format of the 4680 cell and just the sheer lower number of them in a pack. With the (expected) low internal resistance of these tabless 4680 cells and those beefy tab links it sure could deliver some high peak current though so would also be interested to know what inherent safety the pack has. Those tabs or the welds would most definitely still burn up in a catastrophic enough short circuit event though.
If I recall correctly, each 4680 cell has a pressure relief valve that also literally breaks the electrical connection internally if the cell overheats.
I am so familiar with the 2170 model 3/Y battery pack, its a lot going on and its going to take me a few views to relate this new 4680 layout and can't wait for much more detail and a dig into the penthouse changes. Love to hear an estimate on cost and time saving on the structual pack and how the thermals and charging curve will compare.
Long story short: So this is a 92s 9p pack. 92*9 = 828 cells. It is made out of 4 modules with 23s9p each. Nominal voltage for the pack likely around 92 * 3.75 V = 345 V. Nominal voltage of one of the four longitudinal "modules": 23 * 3.75 V = 86.2 V. Modules are connected in series. With 26 Ah per cell this pack is about 828 * 26 Ah * 3.75 V = 80.7 kWh gross capacity. Somewhere in that ballpark.
The 2170 Model Y pack is 96S which means the 4680 pack at 92S should be charged at a lower voltage which may contribute to the reported lower peak kw charge rate last I heard was 226kw
Didn't an earlier version of the Tesla power pack have a thin wire connecting each cell to the parallel pack with the idea that if a particular cell shorts out this "fuse" would blow. Is there such a "fuse" function in the battery assembly being examined?
ahah.. what was previously a safety feature is now a performance limiter.... - possibly the cells are internally fused, but unlikely... (hopefully they use a less flammable electrolyte). hmmm,
Yes, that's the part where Antonio shows us the old Model Y cell connector with the thin wires bonded between the collector and the cells. And then Antonio says Tesla has eliminated many potential failure points with the new collectors bonded directly to the cells. No, the individual 4680 cells are not fused internally or externally.
The best fuse is no fuse. There may be something magical going on with those thin wire looms in the octagonal loops and/or the bus bars are sized appropriately to fail when the load goes outside normal operating range.
Less dan 0.1 kWh is my guess. For a cell 5.5x larger than 2170,pretty meh unless the cell is only 4x the weight. And you can only measure that driving the car and dividing by number of cells. If you test the cell in the lab, between which voltages? It's supposed to be all new chemistry after all.
rumour has it 96 Wh per cell. it's a lower estimate from the limiting factor video afther a chemical test of a cell, not a proper discharge test. 828 of those would make for a ~80 kWh battery pack. each cell weighs 355 grams out of the pack, so specific energy if all the other numbers are correct is 272 Wh / kg
correction: 86.5 Wh cell, 81.5 of which is usable. not impressive. data by university of california san diego video 4XOHetABrag here on youtube (can't find a direct link to the document). only 244 Wh / kg
The folks at Munro have turned the auto industry on its head....watch the video with Sandy, Corey and the CEO of Ford (Jim Farley)....it will really open your eyes in regards to where the auto industry is and where it is headed.
So it’s configured 92s9p = 828 cells yielding slightly lower Voltage ~ 380V than 96s 2170 packs ~400V Was hoping they were gonna blow the doors off with a 138s6p 580V for faster charging. Maybe Supercharger V4 and the semi- Roadster- …
Higher voltage doesn't really equal faster charging. It can help if current is the bottleneck, but I don't think that is the case. I think the bottleneck is the C-rate of the cells.
Polar Organic Solvents such as Dimethylformamide (DMF), Dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), N-Methylprrholidon, and Tetrahydrofuran (THF) disolve Polyurethane. Large enough amounts of Acetone should help with the glue.
@@MunroLive Welcome! 👍 Moving between the two presenters and choosing to switch to showing the details was great. The close ups were surprisingly good since I assumed it was only 1 camera, and the lighting was great even though it seems like the camera people just used shop lighting.
IceCar and IceTruck companies will never be EvCar EvTruck companies. This is a joke! Meaning Ford Gm Vw Honda are finding this EvBattery design impossible. IceCar gas tank or EvBattery is just to hard for these companies to ever build quality products. Now today IceCars IceTrucks made by Gm Ford Honda Vw and all the rest are blowing up. Catching on fire burning. Sorry IceCar companies can not do the switch to EvCar. They all have failed.
THANKS4GIVING arduous yes Your taking way to long what happened to your innovators, are you going to contact Tesla for assistance. All this bragging how talented you guys are Time to pay the fiddler or call Mr Wizzard. Help mr wizzard (Names Elon Musk)
Cylindrical design is so-so bad! Same volume pouch type battery have way better design. That battery day where they introduces smashed collectors...it was dumbest idea ever! Pouch design have 100% connection, that cylinder best 50%
I have seen that orange pink foam material before. It is a mica filled thermoset silicone resin, not polyurethane. Removal is very tricky but not impossible. I remember taking apart LSI/spectra physics nitrogen laser plasma cartridge modules filled with it for repair and refurbishment.
I hope you send the first Cell from the Pack to Jordan Giesige from The Limiting Factor for his Teardown of the Cell. Or maybe do a cooperative Episode with him about the Cells.
As far as these battery packs advance in technology, i find these absolutely ridiculous still. One day, someone is going to come up with a 2 piece, plastic "tank" containing a sponge, filled with our friends, the Electrons!... People are going to say: WTF did we didn't think of that before?!?
You guys are awesome! Thanks for doing what you do. I just got word that my Model Y Long Range coming from Austin in 2 weeks will have the giga castings with the 2170 batteries. Any idea how that will work? Is the structural 4680 pack redesigned to be structural without the battery cylinders, then the 2170s are fit in between the structure? The Tesla rep I was talking to was excited as this will be the first of it kind coming through their location. Any thoughts?
Battery designer is a math genius. How many serial groups is needed: 400V / 4.35V = 92 groups Is vey long to be linear, but fortunately 92 = 23 * 4. 4 strips by 23 groups. Ok, how many elements can be in each group? For 9 elements we got regular pattern 0 * * 0 * * 0 0 0 * 0 0 * 0 0 0 * * 0 * * 0 0 0 * 0 0 * 0 0 0 * * 0 * * 0 0 0 * 0 0 * 0 0 But for a little smaller number 8 we got less dense pattern 0 0 * * 0 0 * * 0 0 0 0 * * 0 0 * * 0 0 0 0 * * 0 0 * * 0 0 0 0 * * 0 0 * * 0 0 0 0 * * 0 0 * * 0 0 Seems like element size was predefined by cars geometry.
The amazing engineering and complex machines used to assemble the battery pack is incredible. I now see why it’s taking some time to ramp up and scale production at Austin.
What a coincidence! I was just teetering on the edge of buying the 757 Powerhouse, and then your recommendation happens to appear in this video! Do you guys have a video on the deep dive you did on it? I worry that with a 3000+ cycle lifespan, the electronics will fail before the cells!
You're wrong on the pouch cell having higher energy density. Cylindrical's have much higher energy density and distribution internal pressure build isotopically. while more resistant to swelling than pouch cells, the expansion increases pressure within the cells which degrades performance typically faster than pouch cells. TLDR here- Cylindrical cells have higher energy density and more resistant to swelling, pouch cells typically display a longer cycle life.
I'd recommend their Model y teardown. You can see the whole playlist in their channel. That's a good baseline in my opinion as you can see the 2170 battery in that tear down along with a whole bunch of other stuff. You see how they improve the Model y over the model 3 and now you can see the next generation being tore down.
It isn't immediately clear what type of welding was used between the current collector and the cell electrodes. I am torn between laser welding, ultrasonic welding and micro-tig welding (see Amada Weld Tech). Could you elaborate on this point ?
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As a Tesla driver and engineer, I can hardly express how much I love this channel. Please keep it up! These insights can not be found anywhere else and are just great for the interested tech nerd
More to come!
All of this wouldn’t ever be shown to public without Munro. I don’t understand most of it but it’s fascinating to see the complexity that goes into manufacturing
Corey, you are getting much better at this. I enjoyed hearing you compare and contrast with other manufacturers, what is good and what is bad, why do they do it this way versus another way, what do you see that is surprising, what is a mistake, etc. Thank you for your insights.
Thank you Richard, much appreciated.
I totally agree, what you have done to propel Sandy into our world has been beneficial to everyone including myself, just wish I was 40 years younger!
I honestly believe you are setting sparks of encoragement into our youth and their futures, which is all of our futures!
great job to everyone at Munroe
Truly, one of the best-spent uses of my time available on YT. In almost every instance, I walk away from your videos having learned something useful. Thanks for putting in the hard work so that we can benefit!
Great to hear!
I love this show thank you so much for all your hard work I really appreciate what you and your team do to make this channel so informative and entertaining.
Thanks again ❤️🙏🏽❤️🙏🏽
Our pleasure!
Fantastic work guys! Thanks for doing the horrible job of splitting this apart then explaining, so we can all appreciate the incredible technology and packaging that has gone into it.
You have to do some cycle testing on a cell to find out what it can do. Capacity, C rate, efficiency.
This is in dire need of a 3D model that can be shown layer by layer, section by section so that we can see more clearly how it is all put together. That's probably a good project for an enthusiast that wants to study the footage and create the model, similar to the community Starship and Raptor models. Awesome tear down !!
Thanks guys!
Another UA-camr, The Limiting Factor, got a pre-production 4680 cell and sent it to researchers at UC San Diego for tear down and has the full 4hr teardown condensed down into a 1hr video on his channel. It would be interesting to see if there are any significant changes in the production cell, though not sure Munro will go into that level of detail on UA-cam. The shell of the 4680 cell is much thicker than a 2170 cell, likely due to it being intended as a structural pack design. The researchers had a heck of a time cutting the through the shell, much like Munro is having a heck of a time disassembling the pack.
This guy bought a cell from Sandy already to repeat this process again. So he will have his comparison between the two.
The Limiting Factor plans to buy one of the cells from Munro Live, do a tear-down of it, and report what differences it has, if any, from the older cell. I'm not sure what the time frame will be for that tear-down and reporting.
The cells themselves aren't structural - all that "pink foam" precludes that... Thermodynamics and containing "runaway events with a lower SurfArea to Volume ration will necessitate thicker casing... lol.. Ay research institute who can't cut a steel case, isn't trying...
Obv, Triolled - for good reason... lol... jk..have a great day.
Define "structural"? Is the car a noodle without the pack bolted on? There was supposed to be weight savings, but the loss in energy capacity seems to be greater than the reported 9 kgs.
@@kadmow Well it would be easy if you didn’t care about destroying it, but to do it properly requires doing it in a sealed glove box with no oxygen with all manual tools. Makes it a lot more difficult.
I can see the headlines now… “Expert Engineer in Fan Favorite Teardown claims Tesla’s new Battery Pack contains “Foam of Death”
Lol
You guys are great, excellent video! We are all rooting for your enduring success! (We all loved seeing Sandy being complimented by the Ford Ceo, very emotional)
Thank you!
Foam of Death is the name of my Slipknot cover band.
@@jamesparson haha, yes!
HOLD ON!!!
That means us "Tesla fanboys" (😉) can now use the term "FOD" as well!!?
Great!!
👍👍
@@rogerstarkey5390 Its a Tee, and FOD is a standard acronym. "Foreign Object or Debris"
I haven’t read through all the comments, but I’m curious about the flammability of the pink foam. Have you tested it yet?
Not yet, but we will.
@@MunroLive And the weight of the foam, I wonder if they can safe weight on that too.
I can tell you about the flammability of the 5 gallons of Ethanol Glycol.
It's highly flammable.
Especially when it's hot from supercharging or hard driving.
@@whompywheels5165 Why would anyone have 5 gallons of Ethanol Glycol in it's electric car?
That battery pack is never intended to be serviceable, or even to be opened. It’s either good, or recycle it. Sorry, Rich Rebuilds.
Its their endgame once the robotaxi kicks starts and they just recycle the whole battery pack and just replace it with new one
Nope. I think they do not want the hobbyists tearing out battery packs anymore for DIY powerwalls. 🤣
so what about the relay? the fuse? if those fail you replace the whole pack?? from what i've seen so far. relay and fuse are inside the pink stuff that's so hard to get out.
Remember that the top of the pack is welded to the bottom of the pack and the seats are mounted to it. You would basically have to destroy the pack to get inside of it.
@@eddiegardner8232 yeah that's my question. what if the fuse or the relay goes bad and you're out of warranty. you have to pay 20k to repalce the whole pack just for a relay or fuse???
I really appreciate what you and your team do to make this channel so informative and entertaining.
Thanks again
Glad you enjoy it!
828 cells, supposedly 95-99wh per cell? So should be like 81kwh total capacity, but is closer to 70 from owner tests. Are there dummy cells in there?
Perhaps large buffers with an option to increase useable capacity later using software changes.
No, there are no dummy cells, as the series and parallel cell arrangement would not work with some omitted.
When Tesla said they would build a "structural battery pack" they meant it. Nice job fellas and looking forward to more.
Structural meaning, you just scrap it as one brick? It's a thick one, but apart from saving parts, what else does it? It's just a pack with cells and its bolted to a car. Just, it lacks a triple "floor", only has 2.
@@Cloxxki I think they decided to throw repair-ability out the door with this and just optimize the heck out of it for manufacturing,cost & performance. This pack is not made to repair. If anything goes bad, you throw it out, it gets recycled to elements.
Now for customers, it depends on Tesla's manufacturing prowess for this pack to last 8-10 years and get max return on investment.
@@Cloxxki wrote "... but apart from saving parts, what else does it [do]? ..."
In a conventional battery pack, the cells are basically just sitting more or less loosely packed on the floor of the pack, with just enough structural connection to keep them in place. They are dead weight that needs to be carried by the outer casing, which typically needs to be reinforced with beams placed inside the pack between the cells for sufficient strength and rigidity.
In this structural pack, every single cell is firmly bonded to both the top and bottom casing. So every single cell is contributing strength and rigidity to the pack. This eliminates the need for internal reinforcement beams, which allows room for more cells, and/or a more compact pack, and/or more crumple zone at the edges of the pack.
Also, as a side benefit, the greater rigidity improves the ride and handling.
I needed one of those cells in the 80's to power my walkman.
Silliness aside, it is very exciting to watch all the progress being made and thank you guys for making this educational content for all of us.
Pink urethane "foam of death" is a great name!
I like watching different Munro presenters but could there be a quick bio for him or her as part of their intro? It says Antonio is a sr engineer but what is his background and speciality?
Do you intend to poach them?
@@directives6670 if that was my intent I could easily look up his name on linkedin.
Did the Ford folks take a hard look at this?
46 cells in parallel for the 2170 pack. The 4680 cells are supposed to be 5 times the capacity f the 2170 so 46 ÷ 5 = 9.2 So 9 cells is close.
Taking into account that the 4680 is 15% more efficient, it could be only 8 in parallel.
The 2170 pack is 96 'modules' in series. If this pack is 828 cells then 828 ÷ 9 = 92 in series as opposed to 96 of the 2170's in series. But with lower internal resistance, the pack should behave as if it has more cells in series.
Is there a drawback from having fewer cells in parallel? That one defective cell would have a bigger impact on battery pack performance? And maybe that's why they went with nine, when they could have gotten away with eight?
Right... except that "15% more efficient" and "lower internal resistance" are marketing claims, not confirmed reality.
@Munro Live So what happened to current fusing per cell seen in all previous Tesla battery packs? .. Its still there!! .. But now incorporated into the current collector as a series of ‘blade-fuses’ making up each ‘fork’ shown in the video above, thereby eliminating the manufacturing process of individually wiring a fuse-able link from each cell cap to a common connector.
Its mentioned in the original 2019 patent #20190312251 linked here www.freepatentsonline.com/20190312251.pdf Re-reading it reveals the answer :-
Look at Paragraph [35] and the diagrams where it states “ _In addition, the fuse functionality can be also put into the current collector, thereby eliminating significant complexity in the construction of the battery system disclosed herein_ .” And there it is folks !
Yep, I saw the same.
Kinda blows the "OMG they can't "repair" the pack!!!!" speculation out of the water, doesn't it?
Power electronics? In the "Penthouse" (that'll be under the back seat 🤔)
"Cell fails"? (Hey everyone, try reading the info they gave you years ago??)
Fuse blows.
You lose 1/864th (0.116%) of capacity.... 😱😱😱
.
Who needs reminding that ICE loses huge amounts of power over time?
Pink urethane foam of death! I concur!
Congratulations after 4 days you got 2 cells out and you don't even talk about the voltages or anything, . Special. 600 cells. . Glue glue glue laser weld laser weld pink urethane, white stuff. I bet i can google more info.. This is so well designed bla bla bla.. LOL. For rich people that can afford to trade in disposable cars. . You all explained more about that anker battery pack. That your promoting and gave more tech info on that. Than you did on the model Y pack. But i guess still some good info.
I watched the plaid model S Teardown. After i posted this comment.. thats a good explanation. Maybe you will get to that . With this teardown.
I don't know what y'all find so impressive...looks like the kinda cheap engineering you'd see junk from south Korea 30 years ago
It looks to me like replacing individual cells or even modules is not on. This was never easy even on my 7 year old Model S battery but it would appear that not easy has moved to not possible. Such is progress I guess.
Definitely NOT a serviceable pack.. The S was to a degree. I've seen Gruber Automotive do some videos on that.
You could cut and isolate a bad cell pretty easy, and replace sections.
I think the in the 2170 battery packs you could also replace sections, but not get access to individual cells.
IF the pack is going to actually last 1 million miles.. Its not an issue.
If its NOT going to last that long and suffer similar issues to the Model S packs.. Then these cars may not have much value in the used market once they get significant miles and years on them. Nobody is gonna buy one of these when there 15 years old.. with that level of risk.. of a battery failure... maybe pack prices fall to the point its not so bad.. then it will be fine... say in the $3-5K range.
I have NO fear to buy a used Toyota Prius, or Camry. Even with high miles.. an engine or trans failure is still reparable.. used engines are available and anyone with some tools and skills can swap one. Or if not a shop can do it for $3-5K range.
5:37 Corey is this an Anker paid test? Sandy, Corey, I have no connection to these guys, very interested in comparison to this products, please
Renogy Lycan product
The EV conversion shops won't be able to do much with this battery pack. If a vehicle with this pack gets totalled, the pack either needs to be used whole or go straight to the recycler. Obviously that's not Tesla's concern - they just want to make a profit on new cars. But mass use of this pack by Tesla will have effects downstream on conversion shops, homebrew solar shops, insurers, auto wreckers, and the battery recycling industry, which is still not very developed.
Not really an issue. Battery recycling is quite developed now, and will easily scale as supply of batteries to be recycled increases.
There need not be a huge reduction in failures in order to make up for the lack of repairability and reusability from an environmental perspective, and this looks like a step up in reliability to me. As far as recycling goes, it should be almost as easy to run a large pack through a schredder as a smaller one.
That was patently obvious at Battery Day. Any conversion shop shocked and surprised by this really shouldnt be trusted to be doing this kind of work.
And from Teslas' perspective, not having people using thier modules in hotrods is a safety/legal plus.
@@patreekotime4578 I didn't expect it to be serviceable but expected the pack to have to be cut out of a chassis. Turns out it's a simple bolt-on your a chassis without a floor in it. I'm underwhelmed. The thing is thick and the specs do far lackluster. Cheap to make sure but Tesla never share such savings with customers. Look at the price of a Model S.
@@Cloxxki The manufacturing approach for the Model S is totally different. If Munro analyse this and give it the thumbs up as an amazing advance in EV manufacturing I reckon I'll take their word for it. What's the problem with a removeable pack ... don't you think you want the possibility of a replacement? Alternatively they could ultimately move to a welded approach once they have confirmed that in practice they don't need to swap out any packs.
There's something is not talking yet... this structural battery pack is supposed to be for the long-range, all the cells are there, it is full already? Am I wrong? But, according to some persons, for now, it is only a software blocking to don’t use all the cells? Because Tesla seems to not build the long-range yet with the 4680... thanx for your time.
Oh man please do a capacity test on one of those cells!
Munro really likes to avoid this question... I assume they are saving that for their reports?
Maybe The Limiting Factor UA-camr will do that.
@@cjwilson54 you can support him on Patreon to help fund it 😉
@@oof_Dad he is the only UA-camr I have ever considered sending money. Jordan is a legend!
26 Ah for this first generation of 4680
Usage of Foam in a way that is extremely difficult to undo tells me, Tesla’s confidence in a Pack it will last forever.
OR!!! ... their certainty that it will be recycled after first incarnation is high. either way - $$$
@@kadmow
Can you imagine in 15-20 years?
"We're making so many that the cost is down to 50%.... Oh btw, the raw material costs moving forward will be down to 20% of 2022 due to recycling over the next 5 years....."
You sir know how to properly assess what you see. I’m in the cell division and these 4680 cells are being designed like no other battery out there. Tesla will make them leakproof for life.
Love the intro music!!!!
You need to balance the video audio better. Intro music is very loud compared to the speaking bits.
What do you think is slowing down Tesla’s progress on 4680?
Watch The Limiting Factor's newest video. His theory makes sense.
I’ll answer your question, the machines used to make 4680 cells are ground breaking all new. Currently engineers are still on the production line tweaking and mastering the process before scaling begins. Engineers coming from out of the country for this. Source; employee.
How much do the cells contribute to the stiffness/rigidity of the car? Where they able to reduce strucutral parts?
As you increase the diameter the area increases by pi r squared and the circumference increases by 2 pi r. This means you have much more volume than you have increased outer shell in a larger diameter battery. This means the outer shell can be made of thicker metal and thereby the battery becomes more rigid. Additionally the contents are semi-dry which also is more rigid. By joining these rigid batteries together you get a rigid pack.
Anker? I wanna see Dr. Sue approve your product before I make any purchase decision.
Thanks to Mr. Munro’s better half, I’m getting the best shaves I’ve ever had! And, my brother is waiting for his 👍🏼
Just sayin - eh
828
Foam of death! That stuff could be an environmental nightmare. Is there a natural material that would work just as well?
You showed us the Thermister but not the Thermissus?
9 cells in parallel. The shape of the current collector is critical for getting the most energy out of the pack. This thin flat material has some sheet resistance so, when the cell group is under load, the current through each cell is slightly different from the others.
While discharging, the cell with the most current will reach full discharge first, forcing the BMS to end discharge while it's neighbors still have charge that can't be used. And durring charging, the cell with the most current will reach max charge first, forcing the BMS to end charging while it's neighbors could still be charged more.
You should do a DC Finite Element Analysis (FEA) of this under max load; I think the results would be very interesting.
The shape seems to be calculated to balance the currents, thinner and wider bands are used depending on the length/geometry
@@alexforget Exactly. But I know from experience that getting it just right can be very challenging. That's why a FEA would be interesting, because it would show exactly how well they did this.
Forgot to say, the current collector needs to: 1) provide just enough series resistance for each cell to swamp the small cell-to-cell variations in internal resistance, and 2) keep the mutual resistance (yes, that's a thing) low enough for good current matching at max charge/discharge current. The temperature coefficient of resistance of the alloy may also be a significant factor.
Did Jim Farley had a peek at the battery pack? Great episode again, thanks for all the hard work.👍👍
If you watch the Farley interview all the way until the end, you will find the answers you seek.
Yes, but what does it help Ford? When they start today developing such a pack they need at least 2-3 years until it could go into production. Thats 2-3 years + 5 years for the rest of the car - the first structural battery pack from Ford, VW, GM etc. may come not earlier than 2026-2028. BYD has one, currently no one else. Lets see if those structural packs are the next best thing or are just one other feature of Tesla nobody can duplicate.
@@MunroLive @48:06 Oops, I skipped that part... I was impressed by how impressed you were with the well deserved compliments. Thanks for answering.
@@MunroLive That camera in the truck with them talking to each other was epic! Whoever thought of that needs to get a gold star for the day.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 : ha ha ha, the fan is stark here, lol... take care, the roads are dangaroos.
i wonder if Munro will find a chemical that is non conductive that can dissolve the urethane foam
Awesome intro music! You should leave it on all video and just YELLLL on top of it 🤘🤘 Heavy metal style
Good idea!!
I enjoyed the Anker ad. More ads like that, please.
Munro Live team has to get a hold of a BYD with the Blade battery and do a comparison with the 4680 battery pack and systems , both i believe are cutting edge ,the 4680 might have an edge w/ density .
Or the new catl quilin cell to pack, cell to chassis lfpm format batteries. Supposedly those are more energy dense than even the 4680s by about 13% per catl claims anyway. The new lotus eletre is gonna feature that pack later this year.
It would be fascinating to visit the pack assembly factory and see one built.
Virtue signalling comments about recycling and repairability by people who are clueless in 3...2...1...
It's not virtue signaling if you have a Tesla that is a couple of years old and because of one or two bad cells the whole battery has reduced performance. So the whole car has to be scrapped because Tesla charges so much for a battery replacement?
With the old battery packs there's aftermarket shops that go into the pack and replace the bad cells so the car isn't totaled.
With the new unserviceable pack we're back to scrapped cars over battery issues again.
Concern for this isn't virtue signalling, it's cost benefit analysis.
I've got a Cybertruck on order but I may go ahead and buy a ICE truck because I'm going to wait to see how this IMPORTANT issue plays out.
Hmmm… I just don't know about this 4680 "structural" pack. The modules and cells don't seem very "salvageable." What I'm most curious to know is whether or not the team has been able to determine if there are missing cells, or "blanks," in that pack to explain why the range is only 279 miles…? Or is it that the pack is actually full of 4680 cells, but Tesla is limiting the range via software…? It's a mystery.
Why would you "salvage" it? Use the whole pack for stable storage projects or recycle it. The guys who hotrod ICE cars with Tesla modules need to find a different supplier, but any of them worth doing business with understood that on Battery Day.
Someone explained on Twitter (and I believe Elon confirmed) that the process of recycling these packs will be to basically treat them like high-quality ore and just grind them up into fine particles that are then separated and re-used as raw materials.
@@gmitchellfamily Yes. We'll see how good that works in the future.
@@patreekotime4578 VW MEB - found a company in netherlands who sell those.
@@patreekotime4578 stop justifying nonsense and grow up! Why wouldn’t he salvage those batteries cells!? What a dumb question!!!! All battery cells/modules are used for all kinds of applications! The 4680 could work very well if packaged different on other projects!
most of those coils are not for power conversion they are just filters, common mode chokes in the DC lines, nice to see that they try to comply with EMI and EMC
🤣That's hilarious.
@@brianb-p6586 why hilarious :)
@@heinrichhein2605 they're showing cells and the interconnections between them, not coils. But perhaps I missed some point where they showed coils...
@@brianb-p6586 yes ge was talking about the Inverter board as well if you have watched the video
@@heinrichhein2605 I did watch the video, although at double speed to make it tolerable. Since the video is about the battery, specifically the current collectors, I skipped the advertisement for the device that the sponsor is having them flog, from 5:37 to 7:08... which indeed has coils, presumably as filter elements.
Sorry for the confusion.
This is great, but sadly they have a long ways to go to catch up with GM... 😏🤡
Quality is significantly higher. B-roll looks great you guys.
Thanks KEVIN (home alone voice)
@@MunroLive Keep the change, ya filthy animal
Nice job guys. It looks like this might be the million-mile battery Tesla talked about.
That Anker advert was good, I would liked to see a full tear down of that, still great vid.
👍I know what you mean. I don’t need one but I want one.
Corey is really looking great wrt to his weight. Just a little kudo to him
Thanks Nelson
Can you please share the weight of the vehicle and the pack? And the pack's capacity in kwh?
Amazing stuff, the structural nature of this pack is incredible. I would love to see an FEA of this chassis vs. the previous generation.
Your code for powerhouse doesnt work
One thing that does bother me somewhat with the design when thinking about full lifecycle of products, is the additional effort required to reuse or recycle at end of life - any thoughts on that side of things ?
Great question I was thinking the same thing, I wonder if there is a way to chemically dissolve that "Foam Of Death" by dipping the whole cell pack.
The underlying silicone adhesives should be easy to remove with solvents, not great for the planet but better than sending the pack to a landfill.
Appreciate the insightful video as always!
One thing I would love to hear your insight on is moving from wire bonding to direct welding of the collector plate. The tiny wire-bonds are individual cell level fuses to cut out potentially short-circuited cells. It is an important low level safety feature. Really curious to know how they are achieving that in the 4680 pack. Is the fuse inside the cell or does the weld itself act as a fuse?
Safety?
Musk don't like safety.
Doncha know?
Probably less chance of short circuited cells by design and the larger format of the 4680 cell and just the sheer lower number of them in a pack. With the (expected) low internal resistance of these tabless 4680 cells and those beefy tab links it sure could deliver some high peak current though so would also be interested to know what inherent safety the pack has. Those tabs or the welds would most definitely still burn up in a catastrophic enough short circuit event though.
If I recall correctly, each 4680 cell has a pressure relief valve that also literally breaks the electrical connection internally if the cell overheats.
@@fred8281 Too little too late. ua-cam.com/video/ydEK4-R80-E/v-deo.html
3:17 Learned a new technical term today: PUFD (Pink Urethane Foam of Death)
Great video!
I am so familiar with the 2170 model 3/Y battery pack, its a lot going on and its going to take me a few views to relate this new 4680 layout and can't wait for much more detail and a dig into the penthouse changes. Love to hear an estimate on cost and time saving on the structual pack and how the thermals and charging curve will compare.
Long story short: So this is a 92s 9p pack. 92*9 = 828 cells. It is made out of 4 modules with 23s9p each.
Nominal voltage for the pack likely around 92 * 3.75 V = 345 V. Nominal voltage of one of the four longitudinal "modules": 23 * 3.75 V = 86.2 V. Modules are connected in series.
With 26 Ah per cell this pack is about 828 * 26 Ah * 3.75 V = 80.7 kWh gross capacity. Somewhere in that ballpark.
The 2170 Model Y pack is 96S which means the 4680 pack at 92S should be charged at a lower voltage which may contribute to the reported lower peak kw charge rate last I heard was 226kw
@@HungrySandwitch That depends on the voltage: 92 times 3.75 volts nominal voltage would equal 96 times 3.6 volts nominal voltage.
Super invested in this series. I own a 4680 model Y and I'm learning more about that vehicle everyday!
We are all pink inside lol!
Didn't an earlier version of the Tesla power pack have a thin wire connecting each cell to the parallel pack with the idea that if a particular cell shorts out this "fuse" would blow. Is there such a "fuse" function in the battery assembly being examined?
ahah.. what was previously a safety feature is now a performance limiter.... - possibly the cells are internally fused, but unlikely... (hopefully they use a less flammable electrolyte). hmmm,
i vaguely remember that the Cells Fuses are now internally to the Cell (i think from a Tesla presentation for the 4680), but im not really sure...
Yes, that's the part where Antonio shows us the old Model Y cell connector with the thin wires bonded between the collector and the cells. And then Antonio says Tesla has eliminated many potential failure points with the new collectors bonded directly to the cells. No, the individual 4680 cells are not fused internally or externally.
The best fuse is no fuse. There may be something magical going on with those thin wire looms in the octagonal loops and/or the bus bars are sized appropriately to fail when the load goes outside normal operating range.
Yes its official, 828 cells. Now we just need to know the kWh of each cell.
Less dan 0.1 kWh is my guess. For a cell 5.5x larger than 2170,pretty meh unless the cell is only 4x the weight.
And you can only measure that driving the car and dividing by number of cells. If you test the cell in the lab, between which voltages? It's supposed to be all new chemistry after all.
He says in the end 600 cells. Not 800?
rumour has it 96 Wh per cell. it's a lower estimate from the limiting factor video afther a chemical test of a cell, not a proper discharge test. 828 of those would make for a ~80 kWh battery pack. each cell weighs 355 grams out of the pack, so specific energy if all the other numbers are correct is 272 Wh / kg
@@TurreTuntematon I have no idea why Cory mentioned 600 cells - presumably just a slip. He knows that there are 828 cells.
correction: 86.5 Wh cell, 81.5 of which is usable. not impressive. data by university of california san diego video 4XOHetABrag here on youtube (can't find a direct link to the document). only 244 Wh / kg
The folks at Munro have turned the auto industry on its head....watch the video with Sandy, Corey and the CEO of Ford (Jim Farley)....it will really open your eyes in regards to where the auto industry is and where it is headed.
So it’s configured 92s9p = 828 cells yielding slightly lower Voltage ~ 380V than 96s 2170 packs ~400V Was hoping they were gonna blow the doors off with a 138s6p 580V for faster charging. Maybe Supercharger V4 and the semi- Roadster- …
Higher voltage doesn't really equal faster charging. It can help if current is the bottleneck, but I don't think that is the case. I think the bottleneck is the C-rate of the cells.
SO no 800V architecture, duu duooo... oh well the truck can just series 2 units (with multiple parallel)..
Polar Organic Solvents such as Dimethylformamide (DMF), Dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), N-Methylprrholidon, and Tetrahydrofuran (THF) disolve Polyurethane. Large enough amounts of Acetone should help with the glue.
Any other current EV is a Model T...GM included.
Is this the battery of the 260mi MY? It feels like the battery is already full of cells. What happened to all the positives of the 4680 cells?? 🤷♂️
Great Camera work again! Awesome closeups too!
Thanks John
@@MunroLive Welcome! 👍 Moving between the two presenters and choosing to switch to showing the details was great. The close ups were surprisingly good since I assumed it was only 1 camera, and the lighting was great even though it seems like the camera people just used shop lighting.
Please : Compare this 4680 Battery cell to GM's ULTIMUM battery🤣😎
I’m convinced that Tesla are secretly employing ‘Moties’ (Browns, obviously).
Very nice video I am glad you are taking your time and doing everything deliberately and carefully. Can’t wait to see the rest of the tear down too!
So, 70kwh pack?
IceCar and IceTruck companies will never be EvCar EvTruck companies.
This is a joke!
Meaning Ford Gm Vw Honda are finding this EvBattery design impossible. IceCar gas tank or EvBattery is just to hard for these companies to ever build quality products.
Now today
IceCars IceTrucks made by Gm Ford Honda Vw and all the rest are blowing up. Catching on fire burning.
Sorry
IceCar companies can not do the switch to EvCar. They all have failed.
THANKS4GIVING arduous yes
Your taking way to long what happened to your innovators, are you going to contact Tesla for assistance. All this bragging how talented you guys are Time to pay the fiddler or call Mr Wizzard. Help mr wizzard
(Names Elon Musk)
So if I wanted to give my model 3 more hp? Would that mean that I'd need to wire the battery to be more in series rather than in parallel?
Cylindrical design is so-so bad! Same volume pouch type battery have way better design. That battery day where they introduces smashed collectors...it was dumbest idea ever! Pouch design have 100% connection, that cylinder best 50%
These are NOT maintenance friendly battery packs! They made sure no one will be repairing these packs! BOOO!
I have seen that orange pink foam material before. It is a mica filled thermoset silicone resin, not polyurethane. Removal is very tricky but not impossible. I remember taking apart LSI/spectra physics nitrogen laser plasma cartridge modules filled with it for repair and refurbishment.
I hope you send the first Cell from the Pack to Jordan Giesige from The Limiting Factor for his Teardown of the Cell. Or maybe do a cooperative Episode with him about the Cells.
As far as these battery packs advance in technology, i find these absolutely ridiculous still. One day, someone is going to come up with a 2 piece, plastic "tank" containing a sponge, filled with our friends, the Electrons!... People are going to say: WTF did we didn't think of that before?!?
Cory, perhaps you've been listening to Sandy for too long... the cylindrical things are cells, not batteries. ;)
You guys are awesome! Thanks for doing what you do. I just got word that my Model Y Long Range coming from Austin in 2 weeks will have the giga castings with the 2170 batteries. Any idea how that will work? Is the structural 4680 pack redesigned to be structural without the battery cylinders, then the 2170s are fit in between the structure? The Tesla rep I was talking to was excited as this will be the first of it kind coming through their location. Any thoughts?
Battery designer is a math genius.
How many serial groups is needed: 400V / 4.35V = 92 groups
Is vey long to be linear, but fortunately 92 = 23 * 4.
4 strips by 23 groups.
Ok, how many elements can be in each group?
For 9 elements we got regular pattern
0 * * 0 * * 0
0 0 * 0 0 * 0 0
0 * * 0 * * 0
0 0 * 0 0 * 0 0
0 * * 0 * * 0
0 0 * 0 0 * 0 0
But for a little smaller number 8 we got less dense pattern
0 0 * * 0 0 * * 0 0
0 0 * * 0 0 * * 0 0
0 0 * * 0 0 * * 0 0
0 0 * * 0 0 * * 0 0
0 0 * * 0 0 * * 0 0
Seems like element size was predefined by cars geometry.
thanks. as videos keep coming for this battery pack, more it feels not the future. I'm more excited with that LFP chemistry with manganese.
The amazing engineering and complex machines used to assemble the battery pack is incredible. I now see why it’s taking some time to ramp up and scale production at Austin.
I wonder if Elon Musk ever watch these videos, sipping his drink, and his thoughts! His comments/reactions! I would love to hear
Why are the busbars so thin? Can someone explain? I thought they should be thicker, considering the cell specs.
That intro is 🔥🔥🔥
Thanks Eric
What a coincidence! I was just teetering on the edge of buying the 757 Powerhouse, and then your recommendation happens to appear in this video! Do you guys have a video on the deep dive you did on it? I worry that with a 3000+ cycle lifespan, the electronics will fail before the cells!
You're wrong on the pouch cell having higher energy density.
Cylindrical's have much higher energy density and distribution internal pressure build isotopically. while more resistant to swelling than pouch cells, the expansion increases pressure within the cells which degrades performance typically faster than pouch cells.
TLDR here- Cylindrical cells have higher energy density and more resistant to swelling, pouch cells typically display a longer cycle life.
Tesla make more difficult to repair they outrageous expensive battery packs.
Discovered this channel few hours ago and I'm lucky to continue with 4860 series :)
Welcome aboard!
4680 * ?
I'd recommend their Model y teardown. You can see the whole playlist in their channel. That's a good baseline in my opinion as you can see the 2170 battery in that tear down along with a whole bunch of other stuff. You see how they improve the Model y over the model 3 and now you can see the next generation being tore down.
@@zezizarjaars yes thank you for the correction. 4680
I'm pretty sure you just voided the warranty.
That nice robot lady on the phone's gonna be pissed.
It isn't immediately clear what type of welding was used between the current collector and the cell electrodes. I am torn between laser welding, ultrasonic welding and micro-tig welding (see Amada Weld Tech). Could you elaborate on this point ?
This video was a little too complicated for a layman with only a basic understanding of electrics . Please keep it simple Corey.