NEW OYSTER SUBSTRATE BLEND, Pushing Yields with Pasteurization
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- Опубліковано 18 лют 2023
- Trying to push the yield envelope with pasteurized substrate by experimenting with different substrate mixes and supplements. My goal is to develop commercially viable substrates while avoiding bulk sterilization. In this experiment, I'm using buckwheat hulls blended with hardwood fuel pellets. I have a buckwheat mill nearby, and the hulls are a byproduct I can purchase pretty inexpensively. So far, the yields with my ostreatus strains have been impressive, reaching around 145% BE in three flushes on my best yielding blocks. I plan to experiment with different strains as well as hull/HWFP ratios in the future.
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I love how you experiment with new stuff, I always like seeing how it works out. Thank you.
Amazing. I will have to try this out soon!
Nice job, Man. A fruitful experiment!
Well done brother, nice experimentation. 👍
Oh man I was gonna do the bran and pellet tek tomorrow, but not I got something new on the list to try. Thanks man keep up the good work
One gallon jug!!! Answer to my nightmare 😂thanks man. It was driving me crazy but now it's no problem filling bags.
Another great video 👍
I love this 😍😍
Thanks for the method. I just tried a batch of bags. I put the hot bags in a cooler. They were still warm after 24 hours.
Cool, I'm sure they will work. I usually only do 90 minutes hot, then I put them out on the table to cool. I'm thinking keeping them hot in a cooler longer is a good way to go with higher supplementation rates though. Some people have commented on that. I need to test it out myself.
Great info, thank you. I found a few seed mills nearby, maybe I'll switch from pellets+aspen to pellets+hulls. Both pellets and aspen are really expensive here so bulking up with hulls might be the go 💪
I want to test out more species, but so far oysters seem to really love the buckwheat hulls. Finding what's locally available and inexpensive is the way to go for sure.
We have rice hulls down here in the Houston, Texas area. I also started the spent brewers grain experiment today. I'll let you know how fast the colonizing goes.
Awesome, keep us posted
Nice
Enjoying the sub experiments! LMAO on the bagel though 😂 !
It takes a lot to get me rattled but I think I gasped when I opened the container 🤣
can we not cut a hole on every side of the block? or after every flush cut on a different side.
a different side . how often can man grain spawn multiplyen?
Super videos like always
I had a heck of a time getting the buckwheat hulls hydrated. I think I'm gonna send the next batch through the coffee grinder to break them up some
That's a good idea, mine were fine after the pasteurization process. That 90 minutes steaming in the bag did the trick.
I've had luck with adding alfalfa pellets to increase yields. I'm not sure at what percentage contamination becomes an issue, but I've never had issues with up to 8-10% with any of the oysters.
Awesome, haven't tried them yet. 10% seems to be the magic number for supplements unless you go with an extended pasteurization (like overnight).
Thank you for your experiments and videos!
I have not tried buckwheat hulls as an additive to sawdust, but tried whole buckwheat grains in grain spawn and they suck (in my opinion). They get kind of slimy during soaking and later on during sterilisation, and mycelium does not seem to crunch on it readily. Adding gypsum seems to even worsen it. I don't know; maybe I do something wrong.
Thanks for letting me know, I won't try whole buckwheat grain. The hulls are pretty easy to work with and oysters like them if you can get them cheap.
Really cool! Thanks for keeping experimenting and sharing. The supplementation I'm testing in my area is alfalfa pellets. About 20-25% using the same (great) pasteurisation tek. Just a detail regarding mixing up the substrate: it wouldn't hurt to give it a little shake when it's still a dry mix before adding water. It's easier when it's not wet, although I would still to do a thorough mix after inoculation.
I am considering testing alfalfa as wheat bran seems a bit sketch with this tek. What is your difference in yield, sawdust vs alfalfa/sawdust? Thanks!
Actually I haven't done very methodical comparisons between the two. I suspect alfalfa to be richer than simple bran though, since it's an entire plant and not just a fraction of a seed like bran. But one would need to test the two in parallel to see. Try 4-5 parts of wood pellets for 2-3 parts of alfalfa pellets and you should be happy with the results. Keep us posted if you can!@@bytemuncher1
@@MathieuGoldsteinThanks for the reply. Think maybe you misunderstood my question, sometimes I don't internet well. What are your results with alfalfa supplementation over using just pure sawdust? Like ballpark estimate, e.g., do you think it's worth the extra risk of contamination?
Oh, sorry, I read it too quickly while doing something else! No, I haven't checked supplemented with alfalfa vs non supplemented saw dust. Would definitely be worth doing it, but I have been too focused on testing multiple varieties of cultivated mushrooms so far, rather than staying with one strand and changing the basic parameters to see how it affect the yield. I just saw that some supplementation was good, so I went with alfalfa as I couldn't find soy hulls.@@bytemuncher1
👍🥰🍄
i am going to look for these up here in southern ontario, $5.00 USD a bag should only be $25.00 CAD + 13% tax LOL
Dang, sounds worse than NY up there 😂
I have big sacks of rice hulls that i use for making potting mix, would those be a possible substrate additive?
Definitely, I've never tried rice hulls, but I would guess you could mix them with hardwood fuel pellets just like I did in this video. If you try it, let me know how it works.
I have a ton of fine clean pure oak sawdust fairly fine mesh. Was wanting to add old coffee grounds and buckwheat hulls all will put in a 200 gallon trough and mix in calcium hydroxide. Is the substrate needed to be rinsed after sterilizing? I'll be using 8' clear poly 3 mil tubes made with an impulse sealer to seal ends of poly. will punch holes every 12" to 16" in a spiral pattern . These will be hung on rotating hangers and lighted with LED using all the air purification, filtration, humidifier, Mini split HVAC to maintain temp through the year. Will be using UVC light to sterilize the room between growing sessions. Entire room is being built with extruded PVC panels and walls are insulated. Do you think this system will be sufficient? Growing Oyster, Trumpet, Lions mane , possibly shitake
Sounds like a decent plan. I would skip the coffee grounds personally and just go sawdust and buckwheat hulls. Coffee grounds I think could lead to increased contamination with that method. No rinsing after sterilization. You hydrate properly then sterilize. You don't want to introduce any water after sterilization.
Do you introduce light in the pinning phase when you pin them in the tubs? Or keep it dark until fruiting?
Light for pinning 👍
Hey Bromaha Nebraska I noticed you said you weigh your water now when pasteurizing. How much do you weigh out for your standard HWFP and gypsum blend?
😁 2 lbs. dry fuel pellets + 2 lbs. 13 oz. water.
What type of filter you use on substrate bags and sizes of bags? They say it shud be 0.5 micron filter at max.
I'm using Model 3T bags right from Unicorn Bags fir everything. I believe they are .2 micron filters.
What do you do to get second fresh? Do you soak in water or just put back in your fruit chamber?
No soak needed, just back into the fruiting chamber. I ended up with 3 lbs. 4 oz. over 3 flushes with those blocks.
Can you use Oat hulls instead of wheat bran for supplementation?
Seed hulls typically work well with sawdust, but I'm not sure of the specific nutrient content of oat hulls. Worth a try imo if you can get them inexpensively.
What are all of the different things you end up doing with all of your mushrooms? I did blue oyster like 6 years ago and it was too much to eat...and I didn't love them to be honest. Always wondered if I picked them too late.
I used to sell everything I grew, but not any more. Now, I eat some of them, and give some to friends/swap them for home grown veggies.
Do you add any wheat bran into this?... or is the buckwheat hulls enough of a supplement?
No wheat bran in this experiment, seems the buckwheat hulls are just a nice additive that can be easily pasteurized, but the oysters still like them.
How do you know when it's time to move to fruiting? I know you're doing it visually from experience but I'm a bit worried that I'll do it too soon or too late.
With oyster, the block should typically be strongly "whited" up, so full colonization plus one week or so. It is always better to wait too long than it is to initiate fruiting too early. If you catch them when they are just starting to pin in the bag, then move them to fruit, you'll be fine.
What is your current standard block substrate? Are you still adding supplements or have you gone back to just sawdust due to higher contam rates? Considering picking up a bag of wheat bran, or buckwheat hulls if I can source them, but if you've given up on it then I don't want waste money.
I'm always playing with different additives to see what works, that's part of the fun for me. But, if you just wanted to go with a single recipe for pasteurized sub using my method, I would go with HWFP supplemented with 5% wheat bran, spawned with 1 lb. of grain spawn
I have some old ground flax seed. Also some shelled sunflower seeds. How does mycelium respond to oily seeds like this? Definite no-no? Or could work?
I'm sure it will grow on it, how well I don't know. You definitely want whole seed though so I would try the sunflower over the ground flax. Might not turn out that great, but if you're just experimenting give it a try.
@@RenegadeMushrooms thank you. I’ll report back when I give it a go.
Do you use food grade gypsum? There's a product at my local farmer's market that's for gardening, and a bulk amount is cheap. just not sure if I will run into any issues with it. They have wheat bran used for animal feed in bulk too, but i have the same concerns
I use food grade wheat bran because I don't use that much and it's a bit cleaner. Commercial growers use bulk, so you would be fine going that route. I think everyone uses gypsum in bulk.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Okay sounds good. thanks so much for the help
Hey man! Always love to watch your videos. Thanks for your content!
I was just wondering how you came up with the 145% BE over 3 flushes. Because when I try to calculate yours I can reach 118 at best.
But, since you are using that much spawn (at about 17% WW) the spawn has to be taken into account when weighing your block and calculating BE. Normally spawn is not included but that is because commercial settings use 0.5 to 2% spawn and supplement heavily. You are using spawn as a way of safe supplementation so it's nutrients to the substrate.
Anyway if I calculate without the spawn I get 118%.
If I calculate spawn included its 94% over 3 flushes.
Dont want to be nag but I wouldnt want new growers to get their hopes up to much :)
I don't have the numbers written down any more, but I calculated the total weight over three flushes not including spawn from what I remember. That gave the 145%. You could subtract the spawn from that if you want to make that stipulation.
@@RenegadeMushrooms I see. Did you do anything special to make your 2nd and 3rd flush combined bigger than your first flush? Usually you'll something around 50% on the second flush and 25% on the 3rd.
They weren't bigger, they followed the usual pattern. First flush was 1 lb. 10 oz., second was around 1lb., and so on. Total yield over three flushes was around 3 lbs. 6 oz. with about 2 lbs. 4 oz. of dry substrate. Just going by memory so numbers may have varied a bit. I've never seen anyone calculate spawn weight into BE, even with straw grows where you always spawn heavy, but if you want to figure it that way help yourself. Bottom line is 3 lbs. 6 oz. of oysters off of a pasteurized block that size is killer yield.
@@fjanssensen1081 Also, on another possibly relevant note, my pasteurized HWFP grows don't always follow a traditional percentage decrease through flushes as you mentioned. With my P. eryngii and H americanum strains, my second flushes are often equal to my first. Could have something to do with the high spawn rate, not sure.
I have two questions for you. First, you mentioned that you would put your block back into the clear tote until they started to pin again. Do you soak the block to re-hydrate it, like some people do, and then refrigerate them again for another 48 hours first? My second question is, have you tried this supplementation with soy hull pellets?
No I do not soak or do another cold shock. Once oysters hit the fruiting cycle, they will keep going on their own as long as you take care of them. It's just that initial fruiting that sometimes takes some stimulation. I tried this pasteurization method with 25% soy hulls added and my blocks contaminated on me. Others I've talked to have had success though. I think the key with soy hulls may be to extend the heat cycle during pasteurization.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Thank you for your help and another great video!
How did they do after the second flush? Total weight per block?
First flush was 1 lb. 10 oz., second was around 1lb., third around 12 oz. Total yield over three flushes was around 3 lbs. 6 oz. with about 2 lbs. 4 oz. of dry substrate. Just going by memory so numbers may have varied a bit.
Hey i started lions mane and stropharia on bird seed, straw, and a mix of both and the lions mane did fine right, took off fast at first and now they aren’t doing anything and the stropharia took forever to even start and it only grew to as big as a quarter and stopped. What gives? I soaked the grain and straw and then pc’d at 15lbs for 90 minutes. Polyfil in a mason jar lid with a red goo stuff injection port
Are you on the "Mushroom Growing for Beginners and Experts" Facebook Group? If so, take some good pics and post them. Tag me @renegadezmushrooms
Really need to see pics to know for sure what's up.
@@RenegadeMushrooms okay I’ll check it out
Did your mushroom spon is available in India and at what rate
No sorry, I don't sell any spawn. There must be a company in India somewhere that sells spawn though.
I live up in North Dakota where agriculture is king. I know there is a lot of options, but what kind of establishment would you recommend getting a hold of to ask about the type of hulls they might have available? Also, do you have any preference on using organic products versus non-organic?
I always prefer organic, but it's not always an option. Also, some small farms don't bother with "USDA Organic" even though they would qualify because it's too expensive for their bottom line. The people that do the processing or milling of the grain is who I would talk to first. I found several mills in my area once I did some digging. Often, things like hulls are considered byproducts, and are either discarded or sold cheaply.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Thanks, brother!
My local grain elevator has soy hull pellets, and they are $10 for 50 lbs. Check there, and any livestock feed supplier
Drop a link for your substrate bags. Thanks
Made in the USA 😁
unicornbags.com/product/type-3tbox-of-1000/
Quick thought/sticky note: I've got a jar of black sunflower seeds (grain spawn) that is colonizing faster than my rice jar (inoculated same run) by a wood loving mycelium. Thought it was worth noting considering I've seen others make a point of removing sunflower seeds from Wild Bird Seed. Seems to me like my mycelium loves those sunflower seeds and the hulls too.
Thanks for continually sharing excellent knowledge on the subject and getting people into growing their own gourmet mushrooms 😎👍
Good stuff, I've never tried them myself but I've always heard they are no bueno like you.
Great video. I am just getting started, do you recommend using 3T or 14A bags for sawdust blocks? Will 3T give sawdust fruiting blocks enough air exchange?
I use 3T for all my fruiting blocks. Never had an issue with them myself.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Okay thanks alot man. I'm figuring its better to be safe with a smaller filter patch as my environment is not necessarily as clean as I would like it. I'm doing grain spawn in jars, and sawdust with bran and gypsum in the bags.
@@nolanhoiting That's pretty much what I do, grain in jars, then to pasteurized HWFP in 3T bags.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Ok cool thank you. Just found your video on pasturizing HWFP bags. Thought you had to pressure cook em but this method is alot easier. Your channel is so helpful. ua-cam.com/video/tRZLRxc5FAw/v-deo.html
@@nolanhoiting You can add 5% wheat bran and still get away with my in-bag pasteurization method I show in that video. Just make sure you add 1 lb. or so of grain spawn per block.
Any experience with cottonseed hulls? I'm about to give them a try.
No, they are a southern thing I think. Hard to find in NY, except online where they are expensive. I hear they work well though.
@@RenegadeMushroomsThanks for the reply. Your videos are great and the information is super helpful. I’m going to run a few bags with CSH and a few without. Just trying to figure out proper hydration.. I’ll report back.
Also, for reference, I saw a few videos from MushFarmer and he was running straight cottonseed hulls with no HWFP - which I thought was interesting. Results were good too.
@@xjmzrq Yep, you can use them straight up. Some other seed hulls work well straight up too, like cocoa shells.
Why hardwood over straw?
Either works great for oyster. For me, HWFP is easier to work with and less messy than straw. Straw gets EVERYWHERE
Haha everywhere is an understatement
You ever swab those?
By swab, do you mean take spores from them?
So 3 months later I have to ask. What’s your go to substrate now. And what spawn : substrate ratio are you using?0
I mostly use hardwood fuel pellets supplemented with wheat bran at 5% with a spawn rate of 1 quart per bag. That works well for a variety of species as a pasteurized sub. It's all about what you have available inexpensively and what you are trying to grow though. This buckwheat hull substrate works great for oysters and can still be pasteurized. I will use it again next time a do a big oyster run.
@@RenegadeMushrooms ahh thank you, ive just started my journey, im looking at likely trying a 5-10% of soy hulls, I understand 50/50 is "masters mix" but im with you and prefer just to pasturise the substrate. Wish me luck.
How many times can you harvest for block?
Most I do is three, after that it usually isn't worth the trouble.
Thank you for your answer.
What should I do after the first harvest and how long does it take until the second harvest?
@@RenegadeMushrooms
@@philiplee1308 Usually around two weeks.
What should you do after the first harvest for second harvest?@@RenegadeMushrooms
@@philiplee1308 Nothing other than keep the humidity high. The blocks should form new pins at the same fruiting sites. If you see pins forming under the plastic, you can cut new holes and set them free.
Have you experimented with growing 8 ounces of alfalfa in your mix before?
No, I've never tried alfalfa, but I've had some people comment and say it works well in substrate mixes.
Good video but as a kg/m/l user too much lb and oz is hurting my brain 😢
Being a science guy and growing up in the USA, I had to learn how to use it all and convert back and forth. Never found it too challenging.
What about cardboard boxes?
They work as a substrate and a fruiting container for oysters. Oysters will fruit on most anything derived from wood, but there are definitely better substrates for maximizing biological efficiency.
I like the variety of content and experiences you share.
But - would you pay attention to your speaking? You are definitely now a speaking and teaching professional. You use way too may, Um, da, 'So', And, and, um-uh, duh, like, and, So... And, also. I hear too many of us - people - are using too many extreme adverbs, too. Example: really, very, etc. You personally don't notice the added noise with including nothing filler words. However, we listeners have to constantly filter it out. You are too smart to be a: Duh, Uh, Um, and, So.... Really.
Yeah I hear you, it's a process. If you check out some of my more recent videos, I think you will notice an improvement.
@@RenegadeMushroomsI'm not looking for pristine production. I'm looking for information. Keep doing what you're doing. You're fine. It's more like stopping by a buddy's house to see what he's up to. I'm not looking for a nat geo documentary.
This guy makes so many videos for someone who doesnt even know what theyre doing.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Let’s grow 😎🤌🔥🔥🔥