The LONG RUN - Doing This Changed My Running FOREVER
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- Running long runs are a crucial part of training for various distances, especially the marathon.
In this video I talk through how I approach long runs and take you out on a long run with me as I train to try to run a 2:20 marathon in the coming months.
Here's the Strava link to the run from the video www.strava.com...
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As an ex racing cyclist where volume is king your approach to running really resonates with me. I’m also starting to appreciate your matter of fact style without the music, catch phases and blatant advertising of useless crap!
Thanks, yeah volume is definitely king in my opinion. All that other stuff in videos isn't really my style, or maybe I'm just old...
Love your videos. I fell into a similar approach by just wanting to run every day. I found myself running the exact same route Monday through Friday of 12.7 miles. some days fast and some days slower depending on how I feel.
Mind you this is closer to nine minute per mile pace. Nothing like you’re incredible ability to run below six minute per mile pace. your last video highlighted that high mileage was a “superpower” and that has really stuck with me. I can manage a second Friday session + two long runs on the weekend to get my total miles near 95 to 100 miles per week for 5 of the last 6 weeks.
This is so contrary to what the coaches in my running group say but I’ve never felt better in my life. It’s hard though, but well worth it.
Will be watching you (online) crush it in London!
Thanks! Really glad to hear that you're new approach has you feeling good, as that's the main thing. Great work with the high mileage, that's impressive that you're able to get 2 long runs in at the weekend, you're obviously super motivated so that's half the battle. Remember to have some rest too because it's easy to overdo it when you start running high mileage. Great work 👏
Nice! How's it going with your training now?
@@TirnanHealy Hello, still managing to run daily, love it, but have fell off a bit on both mileage and pace.. At an older age, good form is so important to be able to log the miles. Old runners heel strike and young children run on their toes, :) (secret, run and eat like you're 7 yrs old) ha ha.... Love Patrick Martin's approach to transforming yourself.. Will check out your film work. looks cool!
This is great. I always thought people who ran as far and as fast as you would be doing very specific pace runs. I love the way you run on feel day to day but over a period of a few weeks have a natural progression. 👌
Thanks, I really like to keep it simple and just focus on the foundations, and over time the rest takes care of itself. Also its important to enjoy it, otherwise I wouldn't want to run at all!
Agreed, enjoyment is the key.
I’ve definitely found long runs to be very useful. Although I’m only interested in 5 and 10k racing I still find for me that 10 to 15 mile long runs give best results.
Yes agreed, long runs definitely help shorter distances too as you're building strength, endurance and aerobic fitness, which helps all distances.
Started running 3 years ago, got injured almost immediately, suffered 6 months and finally quit for 2 months completely, then started again, in 6 months I got up to a half marathon at 5:20/km pace, soon after that got injured again, took 9 months to get back to the same fitness as before, training for a marathon, got up to a 26k long run at 6:20/km pace, got injured again. So if anyone is watching and thinks they can just do 4min/km long runs out of nowhere, forget it, he is in the top 0.001% of people who can just run without getting injured or even thinking about anything like nutrition, prehab or whatever else the rest of us do and still get wrecked. I increased mileage by less than 10%/week, getting 2g protein/kg every day, hydration, strength training, everything and it feels like it's meaningless, my best friend is closer to you, we started together, he doesn't do any strength training, ignores nutrition or running plans, just goes and runs, no injury (nothing that he can't run with) no problems and just keeps improving. If you want to have similar results, you better choose good parents, otherwise you're kinda fucked.
Of course natural ability helps, but you can build up to running long distances at fast paces over time. Some people will take longer than others.
Great effort in this weather, useful tip regarding more hilly 2nd half. Yes definitely, just go out and run and try not to get too hung up on specific metrics etc for every session.
Thanks very much. Yes in the beginning I would even find I was so confused about what pace I should run I wouldn't even run! When I realised I just needed to get out and run and not worry about it, my improvement sky rocketed.
Your MOST useful video until now! Sharing experience from daily practice is for me best advice you can give.🤔 By the way you become more relaxed & natural in making video, just keep up!💪
Thanks Nikola for the nice comment, it helps with the motivation to keep making these videos. I really appreciate it!
@@patrickmartinrunning I am on my way home from Stockholm half marathon, was watching your clip after assessing my run which was 1:36h. You couldn't choose better time to release new advices & tips!😂💪
I got lucky with the timing! Well done on the race
Great tips Patrick. You ran that long run pretty hard!
Thanks, yeah I had a bit of energy that day!
Best video to date . Like the way you're describing your training approach and also great tips. Undulating in second half of the long run is a great one
Thank you very much! Yes getting those hills in the second half isn't much fun but when the run's finished you'll be glad you did it!
such a nice approach! i will do that for my marathon prep because otherwise i feel like i can not keep a good pace for a whole marathon.
Go for it!
The difference with your more steady approach is youre building alot of time fat adapted in aerobic paces burning fat & glycogen but not hitting the wall. Also not doing 3 hard wrkouts a wk means you can focus of volume at steady paces as the primary stimulus. I think obv for the marathon this is clearly one of or youre proving IS the best method. Sections of marathon pace in the longrun is a great idea especially in the final 8wks of a 20-26wk lydiard style buildup.
Yes I agree, by not overdoing it with hard workouts I'm able to run more miles and feel better on longer runs. This does seem to work well for the marathon.
You 10km pace was fast back then! What was ya 1km pace when you started running?.. Example my easy pace currently is 6 minutes per kilometer and longest run 21km.. Your first long run is 15 km, 1hr 7 minutes! So how long and what did you do for before that 15km long run? Obviously that’s the secret to your success.. Your base was built already..
great video mate .. its about consistency .. you're right
Best video yet, nice job.
Thanks, really appreciate that.
Agreed!
Well done! Thanks for sharing!
Love your channel. Great work
That run on 7th Feb 2021, 22km at 3.47 /km! It looks like this was when your training volume was still relatively low as you'd only just gone up to running a 70km week. It seems your starting point was faster than the majority but credit for all the hard work and consistency that has got you where you are.
Thanks, yes that was a fast one, it surprised even me when I looked back. I took it for granted that I was running those speeds then.
Excellent advice.
Thank you for your honest videos! They are refreshing!
Im wondering, about your long runs. When you first started them, were you going by time or mileage or both to classify them as long?
Right now, the most time I have for a long run is 60 maybe 65 minutes, but because I'm only just getting back into running, this doesn't equate to much in terms of mileage. Maybe 6 miles/10K. It's a medium long run for me because on average, I run 3-5 miles per day, but in the grand scheme of things this is not a "long" run. How do I make my long run actually long in terms of mileage if I only have 60-65 minutes for a long run per week? I run 30-45 minutes per day otherwise.
Is it just building volume throughout the week? Thanks for your videos and advice!!
Your pace in the beginning of 2021 - before you started to go over an hour long-runs - was already pretty fast for someone reasonably new to running. Did you bring that kind of speed/fitness from another sport? Would be interesting to know that build, as speed allows for more kilometers during a long run.
I played tennis a bit before I started running, but I actually put a lot of that early speed down to hill running and sprints on almost every run when I first started to run. I didn't know what I was doing and just ran fast up hills a lot. I think I was actually faster in raw speed terms then than I am now.
I was wondering that as well, that first long run in October of 2020 is 4:20/km (or 7-minute mile) over 15km. I would love to be able to hold that pace for an hour!
@@mbasati most beginners will not be able to hold that pace for 500m, never mind an hour!
Love how others picked up his early fast pace as well as Patrick casually brushed past it. I can imagine your were exhausted after that run. I wonder if you every considered running slower 😊
@@patrickmartinrunning up hills? can you give an example of one of your early hill workouts or your sprints when you started running and what % incline it was at?
Greetings from South Florida 😉 This morning like most of the mornings 91% humidity. There’s no easy runs here 😂 Thanks Patrick for all the valuable information. To me like like most of your runs are sub threshold and some of them at threshold. Do you ever do runs where your average HR is under 80% of your Max HR?
Wow that can't be fun running in that humidity! Yes I do run some of my runs during the week at quite an easy pace. That's mainly to recover from the harder runs. Some would say I should run more of those easy ones, but I don't enjoy them as much!
I agree the long run is probably the most important run of the week. I feel my fitness skyrockets when I consistently do a 2+ hour long run. I was wondering, do you taper before races? Or just a day or two of lower effort running and then straight into racing?
If its a big marathon yes I will taper for about a week before. For other races not much, if the race is part of a marathon build up I won't taper at all.
Very intense run, definitely not 'easy' like I do them, Kenyan school style. I will try to go harder on my next one.
In my experience do what you feel like on the day. You're body will let you know what's right for that run.
@@patrickmartinrunning I highly agree with the "do what feels good" type of approach. A lot of times I'll hit the track with a plan, like 4x800m and 4x200m with 200m slow jogs between them...but if I'm just not feeling it I won't push it just to get the reps in. Never sacrifice health to complete a workout.
great video. thanks
How is your first long run 15km? How are you already running them at 4:20 km? Did you not hear about the concept of a long run until much later? I mean, I heard about them early into my running. I was doing 2 miles a day for almost 10 months and googled how to get faster, and found the long run, so I decided to run a 4 miler. But your first long run is over 9 miles and 4:20/km? I don't get it? I mean when I first started running in my 20s, it took me over a year to break 20 min 5k. But you are practically running that pace for 3x the distance. This does not look like a running log of someone who just started running. If you just started running 3.5 years ago, where are the other 6-8months not on strava?, I only see 2 years and 11 months here. Do you logs before this and do you have any fitness background?
Hi Patrick, would you be able to make a video on how you view recovery and tapering before an A race?
You absolutely must have done some kind of fairly rigorous cardo pre running. You just can't instantly do a 15km run at 4:20 pace straight up so what was your previous exercise/sporting history please before taking up running?
His first 10k was 38 minutes, must be somethjng he isnt telling us about his background 😂
@@lean2281 AGREED!!!!! Why he is seemingly so secretive i just don't understand...???....
@@timshields8720 38 minute first ever 10k plus 2.24 marsthon after two years just sounds like absolute bs doesn't it
@@lean2281 yes. Yes it does but again we just don't know his history
Great video Patrick! Thanks for sharing. I would like to ask if you pay any attention at all to heart rate/heart rate zones when you’re doing these easy and steady runs? Or do you go out and run based on feel/perceived exertion?
Thanks! I just run based on feel. I don't use a heart rate monitor.
@@patrickmartinrunning My worry is that longterm this is not good for your heart. Most of the conduction disturbances occuring in the heart and leading to Atrial fibrillation etc, are likely caused from this prolonged, sustained and protractred HR over time.. You really should monitor your HR with a monitor and be stricter with your zones. Yeah I know its fun etc, but you aint going to win any medals or anything any ways, so I'm not sure if that's going to be any consolation to you when you need a pace maker fitter later in life. Heart is just an engine. You can't keep revving the nuts off it on a sustained basis and expect it to simply keep going normally!? Something's got to give...Just my 2 cents fwiw.🤷♂
Just a quick question: You don't seem to be running in zone 2, because it seem quite difficult for you to conversate. Do you do your long runs in zone 3 ... and why?
Thanks. 🙏
I learned just a while ago, that zone 2 upper limit means you can keep conversation, say some sentences, but you are not supposed to be able to speak too long. He says that he runs zone 3 though, in one of his comments, and it looks maybe over zone 2 upper limit, but if he is really fit (as he is) that still might be zone 2 for him. I wouldn't copy him though =)
Chatgpt: Yes, that's correct. Zone 2 is a heart rate training zone often used in endurance training. It is characterized by moderate intensity, typically around 60-70% of your maximum heart rate. When you are exercising in Zone 2, you should be able to carry on a conversation, but it might become difficult to speak in long, continuous sentences.
Also he seems to be running too hard for minimal max efficiency chatgpt: Long run pace is usually about 1 to 1.5 minutes per kilometer slower than your marathon pace. So, for your long run pace:
Slower by 1 minute per kilometer: 3:24+1:00=4:243:24+1:00=4:24 minutes per kilometer
Slower by 1.5 minutes per kilometer: 3:24+1:30=4:543:24+1:30=4:54 minutes per kilometer
Jack Daniels running calculator gives him:
Easy
6:18 ~ 6:58 per mile
3:55 ~ 4:20 per km
Tbh he sounds like normal new runner except the results. But maybe his LTHR is way above normal person, then 3:45 is not that far for optimal.
Are you going out without water or nutrition?
That long run definitely doesn’t sound / look like easy pace. Is this the effort level of most of your long runs Patrick? It feels like a tempo / threshold run from how little you’re able to talk.
I thought the same and then I started the calculation: his marathon PB is 2:24 at 3:22 pace. So this longrun was half a minute slower than that per km.
If I apply that to myself, I would run somewhere in the middle of Zone 2.
I think his breathing was heavy because of the heat/humidity/smog. He could have lowered the pace a little to adapt to that and stay in the right zone.
Sounded like he went into Zone 3.
It wasn't easy pace no, closer to threshold. You have to factor in the hills into the pace because it was quite hilly. Most of my long runs are easy to threshold pace, not all as fast as this. I also pushed it at the end quite hard.
Personally I don't worry about what zone I'm running in etc. I just run what I feel like on the day. Many will say I'm wrong but it's what I enjoy and I only run because I enjoy it.
Many very fast runners in the past didn't worry about zones and ran hard in lots of their runs and did very well. I know that modern science now backs up a different approach, but this is what I like to do. A bit of a long answer sorry!
@@patrickmartinrunningyou can’t force something to work if it’s not for you, particularly when your progress is so strong in the approach you devised for your training! I’ve been running since Feb 22 after kicking a gambling addiction, aged 31 now, hoping to go sub 3hrs for the marathon without a great deal of running before then- and I followed no other training plan than the one I designed for myself. Always appreciate your videos, will be thrilled to see you hit your new marathon goal.
Greetings from South Florida 😉 This morning like most of the mornings 91% humidity. There’s no easy runs here 😂 Thanks Patrick for all the valuable information. To me like like most of your runs are sub threshold and some of them at threshold. Do you ever do runs where your average HR is under 80% of your Max HR?
@@patrickmartinrunning don’t apologise, I loved the long answer. I’m equally verbose so appreciate it. And for me, the key word in your answer was FUN. After all, it’s meant to be! Thanks Patrick and very good luck for your future running👍👍
Apologies if you've been over this in another video, but do you consciously not do any easy running? Obviously heart rate metrics on strava can be all over the place and wrong, but hearing you speaking in this video does make it sound like you are pushing threshold quite a lot. I've not got any skin in the game at all, I'm just curious as the whole zone 2 or 80/20 advice is so ubiquitous and it's interesting to see someone have so much success without seeming to adhere to it.
Good question. I do easy running as well throughout the week to make up the majority of my mileage. But I do a lot more what I call steady pace running (close to threshold) than a lot of other runners I think. It goes against a lot of the 80/20 advice out there, but I don't run many hard sessions, so for me I reduce the risk of injury and can run more miles without being so fatigued. I try to keep it simple and do what I enjoy too, otherwise I probably wouldn't run. Fast times aren't everything to me.
Hey, great videos. Just wondering for your longer runs, do you use any gels? Thanks!
Thanks, no I don't use any gels.
Thanks mate, just the answer I wanted to hear! Nice and straight forward running it is!! 😀
Hi Patrick I have been running for a while now . I like to do my long runs bit more than an easy pace long run so more like a steady long run . Many people say I should keep it easy but I prefer to do my long runs a bit quicker . Would I still get the benefit of running a long run at steady effort . My easy run pace is 5:00 and steady long run pace at the moment is 4:40 and would like to increase the pace when I get fitter
I run most of my long runs at steady pace. I feel like I get more quality running in if I do that and enjoy it more. If you enjoy it more at that pace then keep doing it, that's what it's all about really.
@@patrickmartinrunning thanks and would I still improve running at steady long run pace for long run if I enjoy it
Nice solid longrun! Definitely in Zone3 looks around 20-30sec above marathon p.b pace. You manage to recover just enough in time clearly and that is the key isnt it. Appropriate cumulative fatigue without injury which can then peak with a 1 1/2-2wk taper. Curious on your 2wks out would you still run 35-36k @ 3:50ish or would you run that 3wks out? Cheers & all the best with the epic upcoming 2:20. 🎉
Thanks! Probably about 2 weeks out I would run that. Some might think it's too close to the marathon, but that would then give me 2 solid weeks of reducing mileage but at the same time having the fitness from that long run still there. Tapering is always tricky getting it just right, and I'm still experimenting to find the optimal way for me as I think it can be quite personal.
Im like you mate. Rarely, (only ever if its scorchio) stop for a drink on my runs. I get juiced up before i head out the door, and i don't stop until i get back, even on a 36k+ run. Only just started training with gels too, in prep for Melbourne Marathon in a few weeks, and finding they give me wings. Luckily i picked a brand that digest well with me and dont disagree.
Interesting that you say that about gels, I'm going to start trying them again. Yeah if I have enough hydration before a long run I'm fine, often even if I forget to hydrate before I'm fine too. But it's not very hot here, so that obviously makes a difference. Good luck in Melbourne.
Should you exceed the 10 % rule
@coros sponsor this man!! But seriously I feel like you could reach out to them and see 👀
Great video as always Patrick. What kind of recovery do you do? Foam rolling? Stretching? Mobility work?
Thanks, I'm honestly really bad at doing all the above. I have a massage gun which I find the most useful after a long run. It helps freshen my muscles up.
How do you do a 30k long run without eating or drinking anything?
My body got used to it.
How do you run so fast
hay do u do much strength training along with all that mileage?? if so what does it look like?
what pace r ur easy/recovery runs at and how often? and is the endorphin speed 3 good for that too?
also i read sumwhere u said u did abit of tennis before running, did u do anything else? like wer u a regular gym goer before that aswell? just really amazed at how fast u seem to progress
also whats ur marathon shoe?
Not much strength training no, but starting to now.
The Speed 3 is good for everything.
I use the Nike Vaporfly 2 for races.
I used to go to the gym sometimes yes, I also have some dumbells at home I used to use for periods of time. I generally kept in shape and ate healthily, which is important I think.
have u dealt with much aches and pains since started running? like niggles in the Achilles or knees?
i cant believe u dont do much resistance training but u manage to be injury free and run that fast! wtf!
what makes u like the vaporfly over other super shoes like alphafly?
even on your begining you were running under 4:30min/Km, how? were you on sports before that?
I used to play tennis a lot and always kept generally fit.
I am 3 qeeks out from valencia, any ideas for a solid 20 miler workout with pace in it?
Interesting, so your long run seems to be about the time you do in a Marathon. E.g. 2hrs 20mins which is probably 2 to 3 miles shorter than the marathon.
I understand that and think that most elites are out for 2 + hours when they can run that time in a race.
My question is how does this equate to someone that runs between 4 1/2 to 5 hours.
Being 72 I don’t think my body would recover from doing long runs of that time.
Any suggestions please.
Thank you.
Trevor Langridge
Hi Trevor, good question. Most of the studies suggest that running longer than 2.5 - 3 hours leads to diminishing returns and greater injury risk so you wouldn't need to run for that long.
I would look at running around 25% of my weekly mileage in a long run. So if I was running 60 miles a week, my long run would be 15 miles.
This is rough and I would always start from what my longest run I had ever done was and gradually make it longer from there by a couple of miles further every month without going too hard or long and risking injury.
@@patrickmartinrunning Thank you for your quick reply Patrick, much appreciated.
What was your pre run nutrition/caloric intake before your run in the morning and how about during the run?
Nothing before the run in the morning and nothing during it. I never eat before or during long runs or races. And yes I know it's strange!
@@patrickmartinrunning is that including marathons? nothing before/during?
@@io-rj6sk watching his London Marathon recap video, he said he took a gel out with him, and had in his hand all the way and didn't even think about opening it. Not even a drop of water at any of the stations.
Do you bring water or fuel with your long run? I didn’t see anything in the run you showed
NoI don't bring anything
@@patrickmartinrunning That was my question. No nutrition or drinks over 36k? Incredible performance. Exceptional talent obviously.
Can you tell me your height and weight?
About 187cm and 70kg
🎉🎉🎉🎉
Running made easy with Patrick. Do you take any water with you to the long runs?
Thanks! No I don't
Thanks for sharing your content
Hi, I'm going on 42 years old myself, 6 months into training for my first marathon. What are your thoughts on a run/walk strategy for the marathon or long runs?
I think it's a really good strategy. You get time on your feet and build up more endurance through walking sometimes, which can then become running when your body adapts and gets fitter. The most important thing is to get out and start training however that might be.
I walked for 1min every km when I was building my endurance. I did this for several months when my long run was around the 14-18km range and total volume around 50km a week. I’ve now built up to regular long runs around 22-28km and 2-2.5hrs, good enough for a sub 1:36 HM this May.
Thats amazing, shows it works
@patrickmartinrunning Ok, cool, thanks, because somewhere in the 15-18 mile range of my 20 mile long runs, it goes from very easy to struggling. I'm trying to devise the optimal strategy, it takes a little trial and error. Maybe I'll walk for a minute after first 10 miles, a minute at 15, then a minute at 20, then see how the last 10K goes. Kinda just tweaking my fueling and different strategies in training.