Mastering the Car Check: How to Get Great Mixes Everywhere
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- Опубліковано 21 лют 2024
- Why does your mix sound OK in the studio, but terrible in the car?
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There's a hidden problem with the car check we'll look at in more detail today. Justin Colletti looks through the lens of the "Car Check" to help you figure out why your mixes won't translate to other systems, and what you can do about it.
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What kind of car do you check your mixes in, and do you trust it more or less than your studio?
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One of the best ways I was taught to hear your mix is to leave the control room. Go out in the hall. With the control room door open. You will be shocked, amazed and surprised at what pops out at you or doesn't, once you are outside the stereo field.
I do that a lot. Sometimes I’ll stand by the back wall in my room with my back to the monitors too haha
⭐️⭐️ THIS IS SO BRILLIANT!!
Everything about this talk is GOLD!
As an engineer with 18-years of experience, I can assure you - This IS the answer to these questions.
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Love the spotlight vs. floodlight approach
I’m in a 2001 Rav 4 that I lined with dynamat and I put some nice amplifiers and drivers and a sub in it and have it tuned exactly how I like it, even with some delays so each speaker hits my driving position at the same time. I trust it much more than my headphones/monitors because I just don’t have a good enough room yet. I usually start my mixes in my car and when I get into detailed work I switch to my headphones. And of course I check in the car at the end again. It works well for me but I’m saving for room treatment
Happy Birthday, Justin! The very best to you.
Thanks!
-Justin
I used to rely heavily on the car check (05 Honda Civic - stock system) and would often be devastated by it. It eventually ocurred to me that I didn't understand the car sound as well as I could, so I'd go for drives to listen to music and pay attention to how my favorite songs sounded. But then I'd listen to those same songs in my studio space and note the differences, and likewise on my home stereo in the living room, as well as my portable bluetooth speaker, phone, etc.
It really helps to cross reference on all listening devices, at least from time to time, but ideally on the regular. It clears up a lot of confusion. I've actually found myself doing less in my mixes and getting better results, better translations. Last week I did a car check and everything sounded practically identical to the studio, or at least enough so that I felt no need to make any changes.
I try to spend at least one night a week just listening to music on my monitors--no mixing, just hanging out getting toasted listening to my fav records. When I come back to my mixes after doing that, I usually end up getting some good work done. The refresh/reset for the ears and change of perspective for the mind is so necessary.
The thing about walking out of the room while listening to a mix is also something I do a lot. I think if your room is untreated, like mine is, and you have to tread lightly when making decisions about low end, hearing the music from outside the room, and in different parts of the house (and also paying attention to your reference listening in this way) can provide some valuable insight, especially in the lows since those frequencies extend further, likely throughout your entire home (unless you live in a mansion, in which case you can probably afford to pay a pro to do your mixing for you).
Thanks, Justin! Happy birthday ahead of time! 🎉
Great chat Justin! 🔥🔥
I listen to your stuff to and from work EVERY day. Thanks Justin. 👍
Awesome to hear, thanks for tuning in Phil!
-Justin
I always had this exact problem, awesome mix in my studio but in the car it fell apart completely. Until I started really listening to albums and song while doing some non-music work. And it helped a lot 🔥🔥
I drive an 06 honda accord that had an upgraded kenwood soundsystem when i bought it. the soundsystem has a fully customizable 4 band eq, 2 shelves, 2 parametric. so when i bought the car i sat in it for a few hours listening to my favorite productions and tweaked the eq until it sounded the best. this became an excellent learning environment because it now i actually learned what the benchmark is for something to sound good in my car.
it revealed to me some low end issues in my control room and taught me what a proper amount of bass actually feels like in my room. if i added enough bass to feel good in the studio it was almost certainly too much. it also helped me spot harsh resonances in the 1-4k area as well.
today, my first mixes almost always sound good in the car, though i will still go back and make changes.
now, i do the quiztones app in my car on my lunch. this really helps me figure out what exactly im hearing in the car, amidst all the reflections and asymmetry from me sitting alone in the drivers seat, and not directly center of the speakers.
You know what always happens to me, after I get the radio eq set at some point the batt dies and the radio loses memory and all the settings get reset and it always happens when I have a cold and my ears are clogged
@@Durkhead ouch, unfortunate. i’ve had to reset it a couple times when changing headlights or replacing the battery, but never with a cold hahaha
Cool idea doing ear training in the car to learn the environment on an analytical level. Will try that :)
Nice! That's the way to do it :-)
-Justin
Great Tips!
FM radio compression is amazing here in LA
I just bought the Pulsars. I had no idea you were using them. It'd be great if you talked about your experience with them.
All great advice. Loved the FM radio reference. I'm a Music Director at an FM radio station as well as a recording studio owner. Everything you said about FM radio was right on. We have a multiband EQ limiter that songs hit before they go out on the air, which also why I don't think that FM radio streams don't sound as good as quality streaming. We have our 5 stations streaming after the limiters because of commercials and the need to limit them (or they would be crazy loud after a soft song).
This is probably explaining why I never liked the FM sound... 😅
Thanks for sharing! Yeah, you would have to have some other kind of system in place, like Spotify's auto volume normalization to have the streaming side work without the limiting.
It's potentially feasible, but would require a whole additional solution and wouldn't sound as much like the terrestrial radio version of the same shows.
Also, there's a chance some of that that extra limiting actually helps in noisier cars at higher speeds.
Very best,
Justin
I love a car with a good sound system so I pay the premium. I honestly trust my car more than my headphones because things can sound bad, muffled or flat etc… in an open room versus a closed headset
Ironically you mention the Audi Q5 with the B&O system. I have the same exact system on my A4. I love cars and enjoy being in a nice one within a reasonable budget of course
It’s a great sound system!
-Justin
Thank YOU
You make me miss living in New Hampshire. I used to live in Bristol, Plymouth, and Lincoln. I love New England.
Good episode, lots I figured miself. And the struggle goes on 😊 and on, and on.
Hi Justin, been in music production for 20+ years. I love your videos and have bought your mastering and eq courses.
What I think people will benefit from which I hardly see on any channel is how to arrange a song properly, like the different elements of a song ( how you arrange the rhythm and sustained sounds, melody, ranges etc.) This is the foundation of any great mix, else it’s just struggling to get the mix.
Maybe you can do something on this soon to benefit the community.
Agreed! Arrangement is so big.
The key to great mixing is great arranging, so I try to harp on it in the Mix Breakdown videos.
-Justin
@@SonicScoop looking forward 🙏
Sometimes my songs will sound better in the car and worse on the turtle box with the low end..Sometimes the car allows me to hear the panning separations in the car better or sometimes when things are overly clustered in the mix. Those are two things I have noticed
That makes sense.
-Justin
My mixes NEVER translated well until I started using the ATHR70x headphone, audio technica’s best studio headphones, it has such a flat response, especially in the midrange (very important for translation), it’s shockingly good, when I used to have horror moments after mixing for hours and failing the car test. The first time I mixed on the r70xs for an hour and went again, it translated. I realised, my cheaper (or non flat) headphones were lying to me. I check the low end on closed back DT770s. Either upgrade your room/ headphone to a flat response one or know your room!! (That comes with time). Now after 3 years of mixing, I’m confident. Thankyou for reading and I hope that helped!
Checking low end on DT770s is the worst idea ive heard in a while.
@@musicproductioncentral4540
Not if you know how they sound. I’ve listened to reference music on them for hours on end, so I know how it should sound, final check in the car.
@@em8969 yeah, i have had a pair since 2006. The low end is totally blurry and bloated. You cant discern 150 from 100 from 50hz. Checking low end on them is a total shot in the dark at best. If you want to hear what's going on in the low end, grab some NDH 30's. I can immediately differentiate all the bass frequencies with those. Leave the 770's for tracking.
@@superiorjamtracks2189 thankyou so much for your advice! I will definitely look into those headphones, I appreciate it, I am always looking to improve and share what I know too👍 cheers
Love the Einstein quote! Gotta understand the problem sufficiently before trying to solve it.
Sirius XM radio has similar pitfalls as FM radio. I've noticed the same compression/limiting happening. Depending on the channel and programming, you can sometimes hear the same artifacts as you would on a low bitrate mp3. Then hear the same song on a different Sirius XM channel and those artifacts and compression are less noticeable. "Today" by Smashing Pumpkins is a good example of a mix imploding for two or three seconds differently every time after the clean guitar intro.
happy birthday Justin your a cool Pisces!! 🎉
Great tips.
Regarding getting to know your room by listening to reference tracks regularly in your room.
If I would do this regularly by playing songs consistently from UA-cam and/or Spotify through my monitors, would that be a good basis to start to getting to know my room and being able to compare my mix/slightly mastered mix against those references ?
To avoid having to actually buy all those raw (wav) reference tracks.
💫💫 The SPOKEN VOICE!
The Spoken Voice is the one missing key element here.
We hear so much Spoken Voice on our car system, and the fast answer there is because we KNOW what the human spoken voice sounds like. And it is more complex than you’d think.
In our cars we hear all these FULL RANGE voices spoken to us. And NOTHING gets us oriented to the frequency spectrum faster than the spoken human voice.
👉 so another WINNER’s way to quickly get to know the frequency range of a studio system is to listen to Spoken Voice on it.
The most fun, and easiest ways to learn your whole system is to lay back and watch killer movies and great shows on it! Like game of thrones on it!
💥💥 BOOM!! 💥💥
You win! So Just Do It! It’s so easy! The results so awesome!
Love the tangents and side stories! I prefer to hear advice from a real person!
Two cars: one has an overhyped and muddy low end, and the other has limited low end extension and is very mids-focused; two steps away from a small boombox.
I do most of my music listening in the cars and via DSPs and FM radio in both cars. And my mixes and masters don’t go out unless I’m happy with how they translate to the cars. I don’t have to be happy with how they sound in the car; they just have to hang with the other (similar) stuff I’m listening to.
Side note: While FM radio isn’t as central in the US and other places in the global north as it used to be, it still is where I live and many places globally. So as a mixer and aspiring producer I have to keep an ear on how stuff is coming across on the radio.
No ideas that are new to me here, but learning that Dearhoof mixed a record on a laptop is instructive. I think there’s something to be said for having an ear in the spaces that are like/relevant to the type of record you’re trying to make and for what audiences.
My car has a TON of low mids and my wife's car has no low mids and a ton of top end... if my mix sounds good in both cars then ultimate translation has been achieved, haha
I relate to this very recently! I just bought a new car and now have a stock system instead of my aftermarket head amp and speakers from my last car. The new car bombs me with low mids now 😂
I just have to give up on my snares ever sounding right again in my car 🤷♀️
I had an old honda civic that I knew so well for years. I felt sick when it got totaled by a deer.
Shoutout NH!
Yo NH!
-Justin
Here for the digressions 😂😂😂
NICE! Glad to have you listening. I’ll be sure to make more of them😆
-Justin
I listen on my car that gives a good idea where it is at. Then I take it to my work truck that has a harsh thin mix that gives me an idea how it sounds on a crappy system. Usually I can tell better by that if something irritating pokes out
Cut out the guesswork. I make mixes in the car 😎
Dude, you're in new england! You should do some sort of audio hang some time. I'm in the capital region of NY. Cheers!
I listen to some FM occasionally but mostly alternative stations for catching diversity that I got sick of classic rock. Then I note them and listen on playlist platforms
Lexus RX450h - 17 Speaker Mark Levinson System - I find that my mixes sound best in my car.
Hey Justin, how is Jason Goldenberg on the list? will already participate in this mix con 2024 😮😮😮
Stop working on the lineup! Hope to have it settled in mid Spring.
@@SonicScoop I appreciate it Justin you are the best!!!!! this channel is the best 🔥🔥🔥
I feel that since I’ve started using headphones more my car mixes are closer to what I’m looking for.
For sure! If your headphones have better low end than your room, this is especially possible. That’s becoming more and more the reality in recent years. Wasn’t always!
-Justin
And...... done at 5:39 mark. I think that "tip" says it all 😂
That is a big part of it for sure! Perhaps the biggest one. But wait! There’s more! 😂
-Justin
Excellent podcast as usual but you’re assuming that everybody who mixes music owns a car. Adding laptop computers, smartphones & iPods are great alternative suggestions so thank you for that… 👍🏾
Can we connect via CAT-6 to mix in our vehicle?😅
What are you talking about?
@@Durkhead something you haven't discovered yet?
@seventhplace no I haven't discovered it. Probably because it's stupid and useless
@@seventhplace🤦♂️
Actually, you can use SonoBus (a free plugin) to stream uncompressed audio straight from your daw to your phone/iPad/laptop and then hook those up to your car stereo to check and make adjustments in real time. It works very well.
Radio? The radio has not been turned on in my car since 2000. CDs back in the day, car music database since 2007.
If it’s a good mix and you have a good car w nice speakers…it will sound good
For sure! The question is how to get there.
-Justin
@@SonicScoop absolutely
@@SonicScoop my car is the truth teller for the low end..:
My sound system is broken in my car and it will be a long time till I can change that. So I'm gonna start using the car emulations in sonarworks sound ID
That’s an option!
-Justin
But the point to the car test is that it’s a place where you listen to music often so you know what to expect. Using a car emulation seems a bit pointless. I’d suggest just listening to music in your studio more often. Especially songs you’ve listened to your whole life.
@@davidasher22 for sure yea that makes sense. I mostly listen to music on consumer ear buds so I'll start checking on those more
Treble on your monitors, bass on your headphones midrange on your phone then check the whole mix in your car
The sound of car systems ranges from shitty to fine. I don't think this a reference I can't get from my speakers or headphones and a set of reference songs (and the feedback from the client). It's just one more thing to second guess my decisions and extend the time I need to finish a mix. What else to check on? Differend kinds of smartphone and laptop speakers, Headphones from 5$ to 2000$, several sets of monitors, nighclub sound systems, PA's, commercial ceiling Speakers, Soundbars, TV's, HIFI systems, kitchen radios..
The fact that Andrew Scheps mixes almost exclusively on cheap sony mdr 7506s for years now, makes me think, that knowing one reference very well is much more valuable than cross checking over many different systems.
I guarantee he checks his mixes in his car there's no reason not to your gona be driving somewhere may as well check your mix
You hit the highway, open the windows, make it noisy with the sounds of the highway, crank up the volume, and whatever sounds odd , go home and EQ that stuff.
I have a 6000$ system in a cheap Jeep Compass, the system is probably worth more than the car itself, with a subwoofer box with two 10 inch Alpine subwoofers, mounted in the back seat right behind the driver's position.
If anything is wrong with the mix, it will always show up in the car.
That being said, there are many ways to simulate things in the studio.
I often find my mixes sound better in my car, compared to my studio monitors.
That is a nice problem to have! Sounds like you are doing something right :-)
-Justin
@@SonicScoop Thanks! I never said my mixes sound good though 🤣 Only that they sound better in my car haha. It's not a fancy sound system, but above average I guess
Problem is, every car sounds different. A cheap sound system from a Tesla, or an upgraded Toyota or Lexus JBL package with premium sound are vastly different. And none of them sound correct. Also you cannot compare with radio, since they add extra limiters or bass to their broadcasts. You'd have to upload your track to a streaming service and then compare it there to other tracks , to get a useful comparison.
That’s why I do exactly that lol. Why would you not compare with radio standard?
Pretty much everybody in the comments is only chiming in to write mixing advice. Most of which oppose the guy in the video. He's probably kinda happy when he reads the comments and realizes he doesn't have to worry about competition. Everybody thinks they're experts. LOL
reading the comments here, and seems like nobody is really listening to what this guy is saying. LOL
The car test is pointless because every car’s sound system is different.
I know my speakers and headphones. I find one professional mix, a similar song and use it as a reference mix.
Well yeah, but it’s not a bad idea to check as a final test.
It's not pointless. Even though ever car is different, a good mix will sound good in any of them. That's the whole point of mix translation. If it doesn't sound good in your car, there's something wrong with your mix. That's useful information to have if you're mixing songs
just mix in the car? lol
Man, this thing with the shutter speed of your camera is getting on my nerves... lol. Shutter speed should be double of your framerate. If you're filming at 30fps, your shutter should be set at 60, if you're recording at 24fps, shutter at 50. You compensate the light by changing the ISO or putting a Neutral Density Filter on your Camera's Lens (or modulating your lights).
Imo it's a completely nonsense. If you have good treated room (or even great) with great speakers, you know your craft and make good mixes you immediately have... good mix for everything! Why it's nonsense to check "my mix in car, on earbuds" and so on? Because speakers, headphones, car audio etc. (especially cheap or even medium priced) have so many variations and freq response can be so much different from one speaker/headphone to another that sometimes you just can't make good mix for 2 so different gear! If you have speaker with 10db boost on 100hz and next you have quite wide and deep dip ex. in 2k on headphones how you can compensate this in your mix? If you cut some low end for 100hz boost speaker you lost low end on good balanced ones! Same (and even worse!) with treble region. If you boost treble you'll sound fine on these 2k dip headphones but on the rest audio systems you'll get harsh immediately. And so on and so on. Imo if user want to get best sound from his/her soundsystem he/she must use room/speaker correction and just crave eq of their systems. And even that can bring you not the best results (I set many headphones and inroom speakers to harman targets but I almost always must cut or boost this or that cause everyones ear is different. Not mention every room is different so you must adjust eq acoordingly anyway - long process but sometimes makes wonders!). You make mixes in (almost) perfect environment so you'll get the best possible results anyway. That's my opinion. It's not the mix fault (especially today - all pros who started in 70's or 80's tell you that everything sounds flatter, more balanced and just better today than 30-40-50 years ago). It's so much difference between one gear and another!
So you seek out mix tutorials so you can write mix tutorial responses? Seems like that's what most people are doing here. " i do this" "I do that" "you guys should do it how I do it". Why not just listen to the guy in the video? He knows what he's talking about. He has huge records under his belt. Sometimes it's smart to just shut the fuck up and listen.