Get episodes a week early ✅ a free PWA beer stein ✅ and exclusive streams from me ✅ when you become an annual supporter at mattfradd.locals.com/support
Thank you for the great chat. I don't want to do this, but I must make my complaint known regarding Locals. You say "go to Locals" to hear what has been cut, but I am a subscriber and supporter of yours over at Locals and cannot find this interview ANYWHERE. Please bear with me as I vent. I hate Locals. I can never find anything I wish to specifically look for, the navigation is atrociously confusing, and I am sorry to say I feel like I have gotten absolutely nothing out of my subscription other than the satisfaction that I have supported PWA. Okay, there. I have finished my rant. Blessings!
I’m excited for y’all to watch my interview with Andrew Klavan. Despite some of the heat he’s been getting in my comments, he was one of the most thoughtful and gracious guests I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing. We didn’t shy away from our disagreements-they’re real, and we went into them at length-but the conversation was, I think, marked by respect and genuine charity. He’s a true gentleman, and I’d gladly have him back on anytime.
There are "Negative Nancy's" in every crowd! May God bless them with understanding and grace when listening to differing idea's! After all, just maybe you are that other guy!
Thanks for having him on, I really like Klavan. And thanks also for asking the tough questions, because I have those same disagreements with him, and for his sake he needs pushback.
This is probably the first Pints of Aquinas episode I watched from start to finish. I love everything about it. Even the disagreements were respectful and pleasant to watch. I am 40 years old and I think it’s true that I like Klavan more and more as I advance in age. Congrats and God bless! ❤
It is important to see men disagree, and boldly do so, and yet not insult and curse each other. In fact, it makes for greater connections, friendships, and convictions. The world would be a much better place if everyone communicated in this way.
No. Men can passionately disagree with each other even to the point of violence...but that's okay. Not everything needs to be Mr. Roger's neighborhood. If someone is pro-murder and someone is anti-murder, I don't want them to be respectful. Some points of view are not worthy of respect.
I am a 30 year old Christian about to begin RCIA tomorrow after leaving a non-denominational “church” … I was also a homosexual transgender woman when I begun my conscious walk with Him. The Lord healed me in a miraculous way and restored the natural affections for women, as well as bringing me home to my manhood. If ever you want me on, I’d love to talk! Praise be to God for this platform.
Please show andrew klavan generous amounts of grace for his struggle between his faith and adoration of our Lord and his reluctance to condemn homosexual acts of love. He's caught between God and his son whom he loves more than anything. He's merely a human who has faults, and it's a precarious place to be. Grace is what he deserves, not hatred or vitriol.
I love these long form honest conversations. Andrew Klavan is very honest about his beliefs and I appreciate hearing them. Matt I really appreciate your gentleness in defending our faith.
I got emotional listening to this. I didn't believe that two people with differing opinions and beliefs could disagree with so much honor and respect and love, with tact and grace. I love and appreciate both sides!
Andrew Klavan and his books have had a tremendous impact on my life. He approaches people and situations with so much grace and love. Can't wait to read Woman Underground.
It’s so cool that they are strong enough to unflinchingly state their positions when they are in opposition to each other. There is often great internal pressure not to offend or disappoint a guest or host in this type of situation.
He sounds, to me, like a man who doesn't feel like he has forever to live and is at peace with that and with God. God bless him, and you for this interview. I love Andrew Klavan.
Love Klavan. I listened to his dad when he was on WNEW AM in NY when I was a kid. My mom played his morning show while we all got ready for our day. We loved Gene. Andrew Klavan is amazing and one of my favorites. Deeply thoughtful, considerate, and kind.
I respect Klavan as a thinker and parts of his conversion story brought me to tears. That being said, he really drove home for me the degree to which the Catholic Church is necessary for a real obedience to Jesus Christ. God came to earth, taught infallible truths, and established a church to which he gave the charism of infallibility. I must, whether or not I like it or can make sense of it, submit to her, my Lord’s body and bride, on all matters of faith and morals. The truth is real, we can know it, and we must obey it. To reject this is to reject the one who is the truth and continues to communicate it to us and the fitting manner of His church’s magisterial authority. I’ll pray for a deeper conversion for Klavan to see that truth can be known and obeyed.
I like Catholicism and I don't really engage in denominational spats but c'mon no human institution is infallible. I don't like the idea of one institution having the monopoly on truth, history proves that can be abused. Lord knows how many scandals the Catholic Church's been involved in. This isn't aimed at normal Catholics by the way, of course they're God-fearing people. But the Catholic Church has historically been an institution of power, not spirituality.
Thank you for this comment. I am also glad the Matt made clear the Catholic teaching. I was under the impression that Klavan was Catholic. I was mistaken.
@@andrewjacobadams In my experience both personally and with my friends the infallibility tends to cut thinking and the pursuit of truth short. It creates a fear to seek and test out ideas because they may end up contradicting the church or whatever it is you decide is infallible outside of God. I find myself to be more fearless and persistent in the pursuit of truth when I understand that only God is infallible and any truth that proves itself through logic, testing or any other method will end up belonging to God because God owns all truth.
I loved this. Just regular conversation with interesting people. Klavan generally is interesting to listen to as he knows how to tell a story, any story. The kind of man people gravitate to at a dinner party. He should be an annual guest.
Wow! This was great. I really appreciate both what Klavan brought and what Matt brought to the conversation. Thank you to both men for sharing your sincerity and time with us. 🙏
I really appreciated Andrew Klavan's discussion on how fiction mirrors the deeper truths of life, particularly his emphasis on the moral and existential weight that literature carries. His journey from atheism to Christianity, influenced by both personal experience and engagement with the moral underpinnings in literature like Crime and Punishment, highlights how art and faith often intersect. His candid reflections on overcoming depression and the power of prayer also serve as a reminder that the search for meaning and joy can come through both faith and the creative process. Thank you, Mr. Klavan, for your openness and insight.
Loved the conversation. Klavan is truly talented. I enjoyed hearing Matt’s defense of truth and done in an incredibly charitable way. Well done Matt!! Viva Cristo Rey 🇲🇽
I've only read True Crime so far. The sex wasn't particularly gratuitous for a gritty thing, which I appreciated. I was crazy about it. Was literally the most intense thriller EVER.
It’s really great that you have done this work with strive 21. That’s so awesome for you to help men with this. It’s so much more of a challenge for men these days than ever before.
Exactly, your true identity is found in and empowered by the truth himself, Jesus Christ - by faith in his word and submission to his spirit. "But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave >>power to become children of Godof God.died to sin
Every time I hear someone talk like Klavan does, it deeply frustrates me. He says he doesn’t want to deprive someone of love, but that assumes people can’t be redeemed and grow in virtue. As a homosexual in remission, 10 years ago if you told me I wasn’t allowed to marry a woman and never would, I’d probably want to die. It was central to me. But now, I’m excited by the idea of marrying a man. The decision not to act on homosexuality hurts, but it gets better and sometimes even goes away.
@@youngKOkid1 when I was 16 or 17 (for reference I’m 23 now), I decided not date women because I was a new Christian and couldn’t reconcile the two. I’ve always wanted marriage and kids, so that meant men. I didn’t start that decision attracted to men, or not attracted to women. Over time, grew more comfortable with the concept of dating a man, and my attraction grew. The part that surprised me the most is that my desire to date women and my comfort with the idea of dating women disappeared a little under two years ago.
Klavan may have some oversights worth addressing (homosexuality and the whole 'Christ is King' dilemma), but having watched over an hour of this, I can say without reservation that this is episode is probably the best I've seen the entire year, and it'd be a damn shame if people refuse to give it a watch simply due to the aforementioned issues. I don't know what it was specifically but hearing him extensively recount his life and love for art was touching in a way I haven't felt in a while. Intellectual deep dives with philosophers are one thing, but for some reason, artists who are uniquely talented, in love with their work, and great in articulating it, speak with a depth that impacts me in ways that other equally intellectual people don't. As he said so simply, "art is an experience", and weirdly enough (and maybe this was just me), I felt that flow through as he was speaking. I don't think a man can make great art and not carry it in strange ways that seep through to others even when he isn't conscious of it or intentionally trying to. Anyways, thanks Matt for allowing me so great an experience to watch a conversation of this caliber at 1am on the dining table by myself lol.
I had exactly the same reaction. This must be one of the best and most profound conversations i have heard all year. I found Matt's points very paradigmatic of my own, because many people have spoken to me as Klavan does about these issues, but none so eloquently. I have a new understanding and sympathy for perspectives like his, even if I still don't agree.
I know he’s not everyone’s favorite. He’s an artist so he’s not going to be. But he does have something and he is onto something and he has survived something and he tells it in such a beautiful way. It touches my heart. ❤
@@Ladya12345 I think what I like most about Klavan is that he is honest. He will actually tell you how he feels even if it’s in the minority view and even if he gets attacked for it, and that’s worth respect I think.
Andrew Klavan is so entertaining. I do think he is conflicted about his relationship with Christ and his son, but lets pray for him and his conversion to the Catholic church. 🙏
Andrew Klavan is amazing. He lived with joy and broad-mindedness , but is still faithful to the Gospels. We're lucky to count him among the Christian faithful.
Not faithful to the Gospels as all need to be by being a member of Christ's One and Only True Church. If you truly care for Klavan, pray for his ultimate conversion to Catholicism.
I've definitely got my discrepancies with Mr. Klavan (just a heads up there are in fact no E's in Klavan). But I've enjoyed a lot of his talks in the past and am looking forward to this interview.
My favorite interview you e ever done easily absolutely loved it, thank you for being respectful and listening to klavan I know that you're not one to just shout at other people but a lot of the comments got me worried that this was going to turn into a well you're not even a real Christian because you don't think what I think about gays and thank you for your work and Klavan as always was great!
The original version of The Thing is an absolute masterpiece of 50s sci-fi. The fast paced, snappy dialogue is part of one of the best written and scripted films of all time. In my opinion it’s far superior to the remake - but then again, I prefer classic horror and sci-fi to the modern. Like Klavan, I prefer the creepy over the gory. In any case, if you actually haven’t seen it, you owe to yourself to watch it if you’re a true sci-fi fan. It’s been remastered on Blu-ray and looks amazing.
You should definitely have Christian Wagner (Scholastic Answers) as a guest. He's super smart and knows a ton about St. Thomas, all of the scholastics, and just theology in general. He's probably the smartest and most knowledgeable Catholic on the internet, and I think your audience would benefit greatly from an interview with him.
@pintswithaquinas thank you for posting this episode. it was a great joy to hear about Andrew's dealings with suicidal thoughts and depression, as I have sometimes found myself in similarly bad situations. I loved what you said about when we share our vulnerabilities with others, it helps us feel not so alone.
Oh, I love that quote Klavan shared from the priest who spoke at the funeral: "I think that when you die, you see the face of God, and if you recognize it you know which way to go." Obviously in one sense that's not literally true (our destination is set at death, and God will collect us to Himself if that's where we're going). But in another sense that seems poetically true: Because whether we recognize the face of God depends on whether we learned to see and love God in this life (for example in loving and serving the poorest), so the disposition of our hearts... y'know, I don't think I can say it better than the poetic way that priest chose. And it cuts to the point of, at least for me, inspiring me to remember that in the end, whether I recited correct words or presented some face or did what I 'thought' I should do performance-wise, doesn't matter. What matters is, did I learn to see Christ in the poor? Did I become like Christ so that I would recognize him and be delighted to go to him? Or did I balk at becoming like Christ and put distance between himself and me in this life, in which case I should assume I'm putting distance between me and him in the next life. (And I should tremble.)
I don't understand why anyone would give flak for having Andrew Klavan on. That's just rude, and not becoming of Christians. I disagree with Mr. Klavan insofar as religion and some politics, but I'm a revert to the Catholic Church, and believe you me: it was the rude Catholics that shoved me out for a really long time. But it's also the rude Protestants that ensured I would never be Protestant. I literally got beat up as a child for being Catholic, and thought I would never leave the Faith, until I moved to a different area of the US, and when I wanted to have my baby baptized, I found out I was attending the wrong parish. I hadn't even known that I lived in a different parish, because I didn't know the church I was supposed to be going to even existed. So I went to that parish one Sunday, and the people were so rude. I honestly felt like I had entered a witches coven. It was a weird church building, really small, and when I approached to receive Communion, the man behind me pushed me aside, and nobody would let me approach. The priest returned to the altar without looking at me. It was so embarrassing. So I left, and didn't return until I moved back home. I did have my baby baptized, but only because the priest at my family's parish in my hometown advised my mother to bring my baby there the next time I would return home for a visit. So just remember that when you treat people like dirt, they won't find your religion appealing.
Glad you are back home and following the Lord as He commands, but if you allowed rude Catholics to shove you out, then you blamed them for you not loving Jesus enough to not let them persuade you to leave the Truth. Count me as rude if you wish for setting this forth; such is never an excuse for anyone to leave the One True Faith. Any Catholics who treated you poorly are also flat out wrong, but your love for Christ must always overcome whatever anyone does to you. Those who leave the Church because of poor/rude, etc. individual behavior or even some group behavior excuse their lack of faith to something along the following: "I love you Jesus, but Johnny and Jill were mean to me, so to hell with being part of your Church of sinners. I'm out of here,....and it's those rude Catholics to blame." But only the person who leaves the truth and the Truth is to blame.
What a lovely interview! I’m enjoying listening to it. Matt, you’re a great example of being kind while also stating clearly and firmly what you believe about harder topics. Thank you!
Kudos to you for bringing up celibacy for the sake of the kingdom. Didn't show up in the clip you released but was nice to see it show up in full conversation. Didn't quite get to the heart of sex and happiness but was still important.
I think Mr. Klavan is trying his best to be humble and merciful. I don't agree with some of what he said but I do respect his effort to explain his faith. God bless him.
I'd love to see Canadian, Catholic author Michael O'Brien on Pints. His books Plague Journal and Eclipse of the Sun are deeply religious and deeply philosophical. He has some interviews and speaches available to view on UA-cam. His book A Cry of Stone broke my heart and made me believe the Catholic doctrine of redemptive suffering for others.
I thought that you were referring to Michael O'Neill at first. Whose story I would love to hear! He investigates all the apparitions and miracles in the Catholic Church. He is known as "The Miracle Hunter!" I need to familiarize myself with Michael O'Brian. Thank you, and God bless you! 🙏
About to finish Mike O’Brien’s book about the ship going into space. I forgot the title because I haven’t picked it up in so long; it’s a great book. Blessings!
I view Andrew’s position on religion to be more in line with reality. When I meditate deeply on these issues and see how they fit with real life, I always come to a principled adherence such as Klavan’s, rather than a doctrinaire adherence. It just seems that when positions are too unyielding, they eventually tend to undermine principles of importance.
I'm so glad you mentioned The Road making you cry. Same. I put myself and my son in place of the characters, so the final pages just completely destroyed me in the best way. Its why I always say "i think youre the best guy" to him. "Goodness will find him" is another line that made me fall apart given the connection to Psalm 23 and all that goes with it.
Just finished the episode and really enjoyed it. I didn't conplete it in one sitting, but got to say it didn't feel like 3 hours! A very smooth and interesting conversation.
I love how almost every time I watch PwA I get great books recommendations. Even if I disagree with Klavan in the same points Matt did, it still was a joy and fruitful to listen to what he had to say. Especially about writing, I loved that very much. So let's pray a lot for him and all Christians that are traversing through these hectic times. And let's pray as well for all who have same-sex attraction, and let's remember to always be kind and listen to them carefully and as Matt pointed out, there's no them and us, there's just us.
Andrew Klavan has a lot of insights with culture. He has his finger on the pulse. He gives us tomorrow’s news today. Most of the time was spent talking about how homosexuality is a sin. We didn’t need another debate on this. I’ve heard it all.
Great interview, Andrew is a great speaker/guest. Andrew was one of the people who first led me back to Catholicism, and it’s clear he’s struggling with his own journey, hope he finds peace in Christ.
I love Andrew Klavan but I agree with you. Like he said in the interview he doesn’t think you can know for sure of your salvation which doesn’t mesh with biblical theology.
Wonderful discussion. Have often watched Andrew Klavan on Dailywire, but had no idea whatsoever of his incredible creativity. His take on Ben Shapiro's salvation is spot on. He actually believes in Purgatory, without realising it. Kind of reminds me of... C.S. Lewis in that regard. If Ben dies, "on his way" towards Christ, he will still get there. By Catholic lights, Ben will be saved through Christ, even though he does not know it. As for Matt's (devil's advocate) suggestion of "culpable ignorance"? That wouldn't apply in Shapiro's case, because he is a convinced Jew.
I love Andrew. His love for Christ moved me back to the Him and His Church. My only sadness is that the was never actually open to the Catholic Faith and he sees Luther as a great man.
Helpful suggestion for the production team… The wide shot is just a little out of focus. This is cool that you had this conversation with Andrew. God bless
Halfway through, and surprised by what I really appreciate about this interview. (I'm a convert to Catholicism, now Catholic several years.) While of course I believe Catholicism is true and Klavan should enter the fullness of the Church Christ founded, at the same time I REALLY appreciate hearing his perspective as an earnest Protestant who talks about the emphasis of loving the Lord from the angle he sees this from. Our baptized brothers and sisters have still been validly baptized into the body of Christ, whether or not they've fully joined the Catholic Church yet, and God sends His Spirit where He will. And it's a breath of fresh air to hear this conversation and the emphasis on Christ's freedom to act for the good of others beyond the scope of what we can personally do (though we're still called to do what we can). The Catholic Church really is true, and at the same time it's also become a millennia-ancient culture of its own, culturally including people who do not internally profess the faith, and accumulating rituals and side distractions beyond the core of the faith. And I'm not even knocking these rituals (except in those smacked-down but occasional variations which pop up that contradict in some way from the truth of the faith). But it can be so easy to get distracted by even an otherwise good thing, from the core of loving our neighbour. I do recognize in myself an inward-turnedness, becoming more preoccupied with getting things 'technically' right in this way or that way (either striving for this or rebuking myself for not doing this), rather than turning my energies to the concrete care of other people. And I would really love the breath of fresh air to catch us all, to start loving each other in more tangible practice instead of abstract thoughts.
Being baptized is not enough, and Matt showed some class and solid Catholic faith by making this clear. Convert Eric Sammons' excellent book "Deadly Indifference" presents very clear teaching and a call on all Catholics to live up to the evangelization mission that remains in place and will remain in place for all time. It is also perennial teaching that there is no salvation outside the Church no matter how harsh this may appear. Pick up a copy of Sammons' book to see why not pursuing the conversion of all is a shirking of Catholic duty, and why faithful Catholics must never be content with a person just being a Christian and not Catholic.
What I hear in Andrew as I listen to him talk, and I do say this with charity, is an obstinacy to whole heartedly submit to the Lord. I would say in this case it's cause of his son. Hence his desire to want to allow others to hold that i.e. not telling Barry even that she COULD be damned or bothered even every so often to try and evangelize Ben. Cause as soon as he rebukes or evangelizes one, going by his apparent temper, he will be forced to confront that and choose whether or not to internalize that and if he did. Which I think he would at that point based on my impression of his character) he would be forced to reconcile with the fact that he son-who "he loves more than anything"-is in unrepentant mortal sin.
Thank you for the great chat. I don't want to do this, but I must make my complaint known regarding Locals. You say "go to Locals" to hear what has been cut, but I am a subscriber and supporter of yours over at Locals and cannot find this interview ANYWHERE. Please bear with me as I vent. I hate Locals. I can never find anything I wish to specifically look for, the navigation is atrociously confusing, and I am sorry to say I feel like I have gotten absolutely nothing out of my subscription other than the satisfaction that I have supported PWA. Okay, there. I have finished my rant. Blessings!
Amazing interview!!! Matt you do such an amazingly wonderful job.I was very impressed how you stated your beliefs while talking about homosexuality, to someone who has a gay son. Also, Andrew said you cannot compare that to abortion because we know abortion is wrong, he doesn't know what it's like to be gay. But we do - based off of his explanations. We do know what it's like to be in love. He loves his wife. It would be like being in love with her, and not being able to be with her.
Get episodes a week early ✅ a free PWA beer stein ✅ and exclusive streams from me ✅ when you become an annual supporter at mattfradd.locals.com/support
Ben Shapiro will become a crypto Jew unless he goes to R.C.I.A reeducation camp
Do you want to read a great book?: read The Great Controversy between Christ and Satan
Do you want to read a great book: read The Great Controversy between Christ and Satan
Thank you for the great chat. I don't want to do this, but I must make my complaint known regarding Locals. You say "go to Locals" to hear what has been cut, but I am a subscriber and supporter of yours over at Locals and cannot find this interview ANYWHERE. Please bear with me as I vent. I hate Locals. I can never find anything I wish to specifically look for, the navigation is atrociously confusing, and I am sorry to say I feel like I have gotten absolutely nothing out of my subscription other than the satisfaction that I have supported PWA. Okay, there. I have finished my rant. Blessings!
I’m excited for y’all to watch my interview with Andrew Klavan. Despite some of the heat he’s been getting in my comments, he was one of the most thoughtful and gracious guests I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing. We didn’t shy away from our disagreements-they’re real, and we went into them at length-but the conversation was, I think, marked by respect and genuine charity. He’s a true gentleman, and I’d gladly have him back on anytime.
I cannot tell you how excited I am for this Mashup. I love both of you brothers dearly.
Thank you Matt. May sanity prevail.
There are "Negative Nancy's" in every crowd!
May God bless them with understanding and grace when listening to differing idea's!
After all, just maybe you are that other guy!
@@pintswithaquinas Klavan is one of my favorite guests you could have possibly had. Thank you!
Thanks for having him on, I really like Klavan. And thanks also for asking the tough questions, because I have those same disagreements with him, and for his sake he needs pushback.
This is probably the first Pints of Aquinas episode I watched from start to finish. I love everything about it. Even the disagreements were respectful and pleasant to watch. I am 40 years old and I think it’s true that I like Klavan more and more as I advance in age. Congrats and God bless! ❤
It is important to see men disagree, and boldly do so, and yet not insult and curse each other. In fact, it makes for greater connections, friendships, and convictions. The world would be a much better place if everyone communicated in this way.
No. Men can passionately disagree with each other even to the point of violence...but that's okay. Not everything needs to be Mr. Roger's neighborhood. If someone is pro-murder and someone is anti-murder, I don't want them to be respectful. Some points of view are not worthy of respect.
I am a 30 year old Christian about to begin RCIA tomorrow after leaving a non-denominational “church” … I was also a homosexual transgender woman when I begun my conscious walk with Him. The Lord healed me in a miraculous way and restored the natural affections for women, as well as bringing me home to my manhood. If ever you want me on, I’d love to talk! Praise be to God for this platform.
Praise God for the work in your life. Prayers as you continue to journey towards him.
Praise the Lord🫶🏻
Glory to Jesus Christ! I’m also ex trans, became Eastern Orthodox. Christ is risen! ☦️
@@covertjoy4021 Congratulations! May Jesus continue to help you become the person he created you to be. Blessings to you 🙏
Glory to God!! Best of luck in RCIA! I’m starting it next month also 🙏❤️
Please show andrew klavan generous amounts of grace for his struggle between his faith and adoration of our Lord and his reluctance to condemn homosexual acts of love. He's caught between God and his son whom he loves more than anything. He's merely a human who has faults, and it's a precarious place to be. Grace is what he deserves, not hatred or vitriol.
Klavan loves his son that much?
Based.
I love these long form honest conversations. Andrew Klavan is very honest about his beliefs and I appreciate hearing them. Matt I really appreciate your gentleness in defending our faith.
Loved this conversation. I love Klavan's honesty with having a hard time with certain Catholic beliefs. Love calm and fruitful discussions.
I got emotional listening to this. I didn't believe that two people with differing opinions and beliefs could disagree with so much honor and respect and love, with tact and grace. I love and appreciate both sides!
Wow. This is probably one of my favorite episodes of Pints. THANK YOU, Matt, for standing for the Truth. I applaud you for not backing down.
Klavan has been a big part of my personal development over all these years. He made me Catholic! Thank you for having him on.
Same. Reverted back 2 years ago.
Andrew Klavan and his books have had a tremendous impact on my life. He approaches people and situations with so much grace and love. Can't wait to read Woman Underground.
It’s so cool that they are strong enough to unflinchingly state their positions when they are in opposition to each other. There is often great internal pressure not to offend or disappoint a guest or host in this type of situation.
He sounds, to me, like a man who doesn't feel like he has forever to live and is at peace with that and with God. God bless him, and you for this interview. I love Andrew Klavan.
Love Klavan. I listened to his dad when he was on WNEW AM in NY when I was a kid. My mom played his morning show while we all got ready for our day. We loved Gene. Andrew Klavan is amazing and one of my favorites. Deeply thoughtful, considerate, and kind.
I respect Klavan as a thinker and parts of his conversion story brought me to tears.
That being said, he really drove home for me the degree to which the Catholic Church is necessary for a real obedience to Jesus Christ. God came to earth, taught infallible truths, and established a church to which he gave the charism of infallibility. I must, whether or not I like it or can make sense of it, submit to her, my Lord’s body and bride, on all matters of faith and morals. The truth is real, we can know it, and we must obey it. To reject this is to reject the one who is the truth and continues to communicate it to us and the fitting manner of His church’s magisterial authority. I’ll pray for a deeper conversion for Klavan to see that truth can be known and obeyed.
I like Catholicism and I don't really engage in denominational spats but c'mon no human institution is infallible. I don't like the idea of one institution having the monopoly on truth, history proves that can be abused. Lord knows how many scandals the Catholic Church's been involved in. This isn't aimed at normal Catholics by the way, of course they're God-fearing people. But the Catholic Church has historically been an institution of power, not spirituality.
👏👏👏 beautifully put! Thank you
Thank you for this comment. I am also glad the Matt made clear the Catholic teaching. I was under the impression that Klavan was Catholic. I was mistaken.
Pray for the son, Spencer; he may end up bringing his own father home. 🙏
@@andrewjacobadams In my experience both personally and with my friends the infallibility tends to cut thinking and the pursuit of truth short. It creates a fear to seek and test out ideas because they may end up contradicting the church or whatever it is you decide is infallible outside of God. I find myself to be more fearless and persistent in the pursuit of truth when I understand that only God is infallible and any truth that proves itself through logic, testing or any other method will end up belonging to God because God owns all truth.
Andrew Klavan and Matt Fradd have had a massive influence on my life over the last 8 years. Thank God for both of these men!
Amen 💖 one of the best interviews on Pints IMO
I loved this. Just regular conversation with interesting people. Klavan generally is interesting to listen to as he knows how to tell a story, any story. The kind of man people gravitate to at a dinner party. He should be an annual guest.
Wow! This was great. I really appreciate both what Klavan brought and what Matt brought to the conversation. Thank you to both men for sharing your sincerity and time with us. 🙏
I really appreciated Andrew Klavan's discussion on how fiction mirrors the deeper truths of life, particularly his emphasis on the moral and existential weight that literature carries. His journey from atheism to Christianity, influenced by both personal experience and engagement with the moral underpinnings in literature like Crime and Punishment, highlights how art and faith often intersect. His candid reflections on overcoming depression and the power of prayer also serve as a reminder that the search for meaning and joy can come through both faith and the creative process. Thank you, Mr. Klavan, for your openness and insight.
@@SanctuaryofSteel is this ai generated?
It would be extremely fascinating to see you have a discussion with Spencer Klavan about all this stuff.
Loved the conversation. Klavan is truly talented. I enjoyed hearing Matt’s defense of truth and done in an incredibly charitable way. Well done Matt!! Viva Cristo Rey 🇲🇽
I'm a new catholic who has read one Klaven book. True Crime. I learned so much from this podcast. Thank you gentlemen.
I've only read True Crime so far. The sex wasn't particularly gratuitous for a gritty thing, which I appreciated. I was crazy about it. Was literally the most intense thriller EVER.
It’s really great that you have done this work with strive 21. That’s so awesome for you to help men with this. It’s so much more of a challenge for men these days than ever before.
Christ is King. Im same sex attracted, but through Christ and finding my Idenity in him I no longer hold to that.
Praise God!
Exactly, your true identity is found in and empowered by the truth himself, Jesus Christ - by faith in his word and submission to his spirit. "But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave >>power to become children of Godof God.died to sin
You are living proof of the transformative power of the Holy Spirit. Thank you for your example, God bless.
@@Aj_2044 God bless you. You've been given an extra measure of strength. Keep up the good fight.
God Bless you and guide you
“Acquire the spirit of peace and a thousand souls around you will be saved.” - St. Seraphim
Gotta love st. Seraphim
Every time I hear someone talk like Klavan does, it deeply frustrates me. He says he doesn’t want to deprive someone of love, but that assumes people can’t be redeemed and grow in virtue. As a homosexual in remission, 10 years ago if you told me I wasn’t allowed to marry a woman and never would, I’d probably want to die. It was central to me. But now, I’m excited by the idea of marrying a man. The decision not to act on homosexuality hurts, but it gets better and sometimes even goes away.
@@sarahoftheshire God bless you!
@@sarahoftheshire yes, I believe this is true and right. Thank you for sharing.
@@sarahoftheshire so did you become attracted to men over time? Were you ever attracted to men while same sex attracted?
@@youngKOkid1 when I was 16 or 17 (for reference I’m 23 now), I decided not date women because I was a new Christian and couldn’t reconcile the two. I’ve always wanted marriage and kids, so that meant men. I didn’t start that decision attracted to men, or not attracted to women. Over time, grew more comfortable with the concept of dating a man, and my attraction grew. The part that surprised me the most is that my desire to date women and my comfort with the idea of dating women disappeared a little under two years ago.
@sarahoftheshire thank you for sharing that. I hope you find a lovely Christian man to start a family with, Sarah of the Shire! ❤
Andrew is pretty much the only fiction writer I deal with nowadays. His writing is terrific! I loved this interview.
Klavan may have some oversights worth addressing (homosexuality and the whole 'Christ is King' dilemma), but having watched over an hour of this, I can say without reservation that this is episode is probably the best I've seen the entire year, and it'd be a damn shame if people refuse to give it a watch simply due to the aforementioned issues. I don't know what it was specifically but hearing him extensively recount his life and love for art was touching in a way I haven't felt in a while. Intellectual deep dives with philosophers are one thing, but for some reason, artists who are uniquely talented, in love with their work, and great in articulating it, speak with a depth that impacts me in ways that other equally intellectual people don't. As he said so simply, "art is an experience", and weirdly enough (and maybe this was just me), I felt that flow through as he was speaking. I don't think a man can make great art and not carry it in strange ways that seep through to others even when he isn't conscious of it or intentionally trying to. Anyways, thanks Matt for allowing me so great an experience to watch a conversation of this caliber at 1am on the dining table by myself lol.
Klavan is a good man. No need to agree with him about everything, he is a net positive in the culture.
@@Antonio_Serdar agreed
I had exactly the same reaction. This must be one of the best and most profound conversations i have heard all year. I found Matt's points very paradigmatic of my own, because many people have spoken to me as Klavan does about these issues, but none so eloquently. I have a new understanding and sympathy for perspectives like his, even if I still don't agree.
Ikr Klavan is just great, you should listen to his (sadly just weekly) show!
I know he’s not everyone’s favorite. He’s an artist so he’s not going to be. But he does have something and he is onto something and he has survived something and he tells it in such a beautiful way. It touches my heart. ❤
@@Ladya12345 I think what I like most about Klavan is that he is honest. He will actually tell you how he feels even if it’s in the minority view and even if he gets attacked for it, and that’s worth respect I think.
@@neanderthalthinker4902 exactly! I don’t blindly follow him. But I think he tells the truth the best he knows it. And I like that about him.
My two favorite podcasters together in one episode!!!
Same!
I love Klavan , and thanks for asking the tough questions to him too. I hope he converts.
Andrew Klavan is so entertaining. I do think he is conflicted about his relationship with Christ and his son, but lets pray for him and his conversion to the Catholic church. 🙏
So excited to watch you and Klavan. 2 of my favorites!
So much love for Andrew. God bless him.
I’m so glad that I can stave off my Klavanlessness with this glorious three-hour interview.
Andrew Klavan is amazing. He lived with joy and broad-mindedness , but is still faithful to the Gospels. We're lucky to count him among the Christian faithful.
Not faithful to the Gospels as all need to be by being a member of Christ's One and Only True Church. If you truly care for Klavan, pray for his ultimate conversion to Catholicism.
@@docverit2668 Lol ok.
All glory and honor to our Lord Jesus Christ 🙏
I've definitely got my discrepancies with Mr. Klavan (just a heads up there are in fact no E's in Klavan). But I've enjoyed a lot of his talks in the past and am looking forward to this interview.
Cool man
My favorite interview you e ever done easily absolutely loved it, thank you for being respectful and listening to klavan I know that you're not one to just shout at other people but a lot of the comments got me worried that this was going to turn into a well you're not even a real Christian because you don't think what I think about gays and thank you for your work and Klavan as always was great!
The original version of The Thing is an absolute masterpiece of 50s sci-fi. The fast paced, snappy dialogue is part of one of the best written and scripted films of all time. In my opinion it’s far superior to the remake - but then again, I prefer classic horror and sci-fi to the modern. Like Klavan, I prefer the creepy over the gory. In any case, if you actually haven’t seen it, you owe to yourself to watch it if you’re a true sci-fi fan. It’s been remastered on Blu-ray and looks amazing.
It's honestly disgusting how people treat this guy so poorly. He's such a good guy.
He made a kicking motion at my dog. Granted my dog was in a different country but the intent to move his foot quickly was definitely there.
@twopintsofmilk this sounds straight out of a Klavan video intro 😂😂
Wonderful discussion! Thank you so much!
100% Ben should become Christian. All Jews should become Christian to be saved. That's the Catholic position.
The talmud is their position. I encourage you to read it.
@@tylerbertsch5630 there's 3 different kinds of Christianity. Pauline, Jewish, Jesus.
If that's what was required to "be saved" then yeah. But ... not necessarily.
@@ThatBoomerDude56 to be saved? yeah it is required
@@gramgram11 That G scared me lol
I agree with Andrew on pretty much everything here. Not only that but his joy is contagious and I’m working on having that joy for myself too.
I found Andrew Klavan to be deeply thoughtful here, thank you both for the conversation.
You should definitely have Christian Wagner (Scholastic Answers) as a guest. He's super smart and knows a ton about St. Thomas, all of the scholastics, and just theology in general. He's probably the smartest and most knowledgeable Catholic on the internet, and I think your audience would benefit greatly from an interview with him.
Never heard of him, I'm gonna check Christian out. Thank you!
Wagner would not even say that about himself lol
THRILLED TO SEE THESE GUYS TOGETHER. Both of you have expanded my faith so much. Thx for the awesome get-together 😁
I'm about 50 minutes through this conversation, and wow, it's a great one. Good Christian art is so extremely important.
Andrew is so interesting and honest. Thank you for sharing your struggle. ❤
@pintswithaquinas thank you for posting this episode. it was a great joy to hear about Andrew's dealings with suicidal thoughts and depression, as I have sometimes found myself in similarly bad situations. I loved what you said about when we share our vulnerabilities with others, it helps us feel not so alone.
Oh, I love that quote Klavan shared from the priest who spoke at the funeral: "I think that when you die, you see the face of God, and if you recognize it you know which way to go." Obviously in one sense that's not literally true (our destination is set at death, and God will collect us to Himself if that's where we're going). But in another sense that seems poetically true: Because whether we recognize the face of God depends on whether we learned to see and love God in this life (for example in loving and serving the poorest), so the disposition of our hearts... y'know, I don't think I can say it better than the poetic way that priest chose. And it cuts to the point of, at least for me, inspiring me to remember that in the end, whether I recited correct words or presented some face or did what I 'thought' I should do performance-wise, doesn't matter. What matters is, did I learn to see Christ in the poor? Did I become like Christ so that I would recognize him and be delighted to go to him? Or did I balk at becoming like Christ and put distance between himself and me in this life, in which case I should assume I'm putting distance between me and him in the next life. (And I should tremble.)
I love Catholic Lofi. I play it in my class to my students when tgey are doing independent classwork. It calms and focuses them. It's so effective.
I don't understand why anyone would give flak for having Andrew Klavan on. That's just rude, and not becoming of Christians. I disagree with Mr. Klavan insofar as religion and some politics, but I'm a revert to the Catholic Church, and believe you me: it was the rude Catholics that shoved me out for a really long time. But it's also the rude Protestants that ensured I would never be Protestant. I literally got beat up as a child for being Catholic, and thought I would never leave the Faith, until I moved to a different area of the US, and when I wanted to have my baby baptized, I found out I was attending the wrong parish. I hadn't even known that I lived in a different parish, because I didn't know the church I was supposed to be going to even existed. So I went to that parish one Sunday, and the people were so rude. I honestly felt like I had entered a witches coven. It was a weird church building, really small, and when I approached to receive Communion, the man behind me pushed me aside, and nobody would let me approach. The priest returned to the altar without looking at me. It was so embarrassing. So I left, and didn't return until I moved back home. I did have my baby baptized, but only because the priest at my family's parish in my hometown advised my mother to bring my baby there the next time I would return home for a visit. So just remember that when you treat people like dirt, they won't find your religion appealing.
Amen. ❤
This is so dissimilar to my expereince at dozens of Catholic churches that it's almost hard for me to believe.
Glad you are back home and following the Lord as He commands, but if you allowed rude Catholics to shove you out, then you blamed them for you not loving Jesus enough to not let them persuade you to leave the Truth. Count me as rude if you wish for setting this forth; such is never an excuse for anyone to leave the One True Faith.
Any Catholics who treated you poorly are also flat out wrong, but your love for Christ must always overcome whatever anyone does to you. Those who leave the Church because of poor/rude, etc. individual behavior or even some group behavior excuse their lack of faith to something along the following: "I love you Jesus, but Johnny and Jill were mean to me, so to hell with being part of your Church of sinners. I'm out of here,....and it's those rude Catholics to blame."
But only the person who leaves the truth and the Truth is to blame.
Go to a different church, don't give on Christ's Church because some sinners offended you. Turn the other cheek and find a different Catholic church
What a podcast. Thank you Andrew for sharing your story. It really means a lot to me in my life at the moment
I've never been this pumped about an ep
What a lovely interview! I’m enjoying listening to it. Matt, you’re a great example of being kind while also stating clearly and firmly what you believe about harder topics. Thank you!
Klavan is a great writer.
Great podcast! Love Klavan!
What a wonderful interview. A pleasure to listen to him and you, Matt. God bless you both. Christ is King 👑 May we all strive to be enough.
Kudos to you for bringing up celibacy for the sake of the kingdom. Didn't show up in the clip you released but was nice to see it show up in full conversation. Didn't quite get to the heart of sex and happiness but was still important.
I don't agree completely with Andrew or Matt on everything; but I do love a conversation that gives me something to think about. 🤓
I think Mr. Klavan is trying his best to be humble and merciful. I don't agree with some of what he said but I do respect his effort to explain his faith. God bless him.
I'd love to see Canadian, Catholic author Michael O'Brien on Pints. His books Plague Journal and Eclipse of the Sun are deeply religious and deeply philosophical. He has some interviews and speaches available to view on UA-cam. His book A Cry of Stone broke my heart and made me believe the Catholic doctrine of redemptive suffering for others.
I thought that you were referring to Michael O'Neill at first. Whose story I would love to hear! He investigates all the apparitions and miracles in the Catholic Church. He is known as "The Miracle Hunter!"
I need to familiarize myself with Michael O'Brian.
Thank you, and God bless you! 🙏
One of his books is on my book club list. I’ve never read him before, so now I’m excited!
I second this!
About to finish Mike O’Brien’s book about the ship going into space. I forgot the title because I haven’t picked it up in so long; it’s a great book. Blessings!
Matt mentioned him before, and he wanted to get him on; I bet he’s reluctant to travel
This was such a great interview. You're both wonderful and intelligent men who've given me a lot to chew on. God bless you both.
I view Andrew’s position on religion to be more in line with reality. When I meditate deeply on these issues and see how they fit with real life, I always come to a principled adherence such as Klavan’s, rather than a doctrinaire adherence. It just seems that when positions are too unyielding, they eventually tend to undermine principles of importance.
Another great podcast !!! Love Andrew Klavan. Three hours went by so fast Matt ❤🙏🏼
I'm so glad you mentioned The Road making you cry. Same. I put myself and my son in place of the characters, so the final pages just completely destroyed me in the best way. Its why I always say "i think youre the best guy" to him. "Goodness will find him" is another line that made me fall apart given the connection to Psalm 23 and all that goes with it.
Klavan is such a gifted storyteller.
I love Klavan and I love this show. Glory to Jesus Christ.
Just finished the episode and really enjoyed it. I didn't conplete it in one sitting, but got to say it didn't feel like 3 hours! A very smooth and interesting conversation.
Such a lovely conversation...you guys really compliment eachother xxx
I love how almost every time I watch PwA I get great books recommendations. Even if I disagree with Klavan in the same points Matt did, it still was a joy and fruitful to listen to what he had to say. Especially about writing, I loved that very much. So let's pray a lot for him and all Christians that are traversing through these hectic times. And let's pray as well for all who have same-sex attraction, and let's remember to always be kind and listen to them carefully and as Matt pointed out, there's no them and us, there's just us.
Andrew Klavan has a lot of insights with culture. He has his finger on the pulse. He gives us tomorrow’s news today. Most of the time was spent talking about how homosexuality is a sin. We didn’t need another debate on this. I’ve heard it all.
I loved this long form very civilized discussion.
Great interview, Andrew is a great speaker/guest. Andrew was one of the people who first led me back to Catholicism, and it’s clear he’s struggling with his own journey, hope he finds peace in Christ.
Is it clear he is?
@@kellibuzzard9431he is trying to reconcile two irreconcilable views, which is is what makes it clear to me.
I love Andrew Klavan but I agree with you. Like he said in the interview he doesn’t think you can know for sure of your salvation which doesn’t mesh with biblical theology.
Wonderful discussion. Have often watched Andrew Klavan on Dailywire, but had no idea whatsoever of his incredible creativity. His take on Ben Shapiro's salvation is spot on. He actually believes in Purgatory, without realising it. Kind of reminds me of... C.S. Lewis in that regard. If Ben dies, "on his way" towards Christ, he will still get there. By Catholic lights, Ben will be saved through Christ, even though he does not know it. As for Matt's (devil's advocate) suggestion of "culpable ignorance"? That wouldn't apply in Shapiro's case, because he is a convinced Jew.
Love Andrew's take on books and politics! What an amazing interview!❤️🙏🏻
I love Andrew. His love for Christ moved me back to the Him and His Church. My only sadness is that the was never actually open to the Catholic Faith and he sees Luther as a great man.
I find these intament, honest, long form discussions so interesting for the reason that I can't have these conversations with those I know and love.
Another great show, I'm so grateful to you, dear Matt! Kindest regards from Switzerland!
Now I got, "Never Gonna Give You Up" in my head.... *THANKS A LOT!!!*
Helpful suggestion for the production team…
The wide shot is just a little out of focus.
This is cool that you had this conversation with Andrew.
God bless
Halfway through, and surprised by what I really appreciate about this interview. (I'm a convert to Catholicism, now Catholic several years.) While of course I believe Catholicism is true and Klavan should enter the fullness of the Church Christ founded, at the same time I REALLY appreciate hearing his perspective as an earnest Protestant who talks about the emphasis of loving the Lord from the angle he sees this from. Our baptized brothers and sisters have still been validly baptized into the body of Christ, whether or not they've fully joined the Catholic Church yet, and God sends His Spirit where He will. And it's a breath of fresh air to hear this conversation and the emphasis on Christ's freedom to act for the good of others beyond the scope of what we can personally do (though we're still called to do what we can).
The Catholic Church really is true, and at the same time it's also become a millennia-ancient culture of its own, culturally including people who do not internally profess the faith, and accumulating rituals and side distractions beyond the core of the faith. And I'm not even knocking these rituals (except in those smacked-down but occasional variations which pop up that contradict in some way from the truth of the faith). But it can be so easy to get distracted by even an otherwise good thing, from the core of loving our neighbour. I do recognize in myself an inward-turnedness, becoming more preoccupied with getting things 'technically' right in this way or that way (either striving for this or rebuking myself for not doing this), rather than turning my energies to the concrete care of other people. And I would really love the breath of fresh air to catch us all, to start loving each other in more tangible practice instead of abstract thoughts.
Being baptized is not enough, and Matt showed some class and solid Catholic faith by making this clear. Convert Eric Sammons' excellent book "Deadly Indifference" presents very clear teaching and a call on all Catholics to live up to the evangelization mission that remains in place and will remain in place for all time. It is also perennial teaching that there is no salvation outside the Church no matter how harsh this may appear. Pick up a copy of Sammons' book to see why not pursuing the conversion of all is a shirking of Catholic duty, and why faithful Catholics must never be content with a person just being a Christian and not Catholic.
This is the most pleasantest of surprises 🎉❤
Thank you, Matt. Inspiring.
I loved this. Thanks, Matt and Andrew 🤍
The book House of Sand and Fog changed me forever.. I couldn’t breathe right for many days..
Great interview. Pulled a lot more out of Klavan than most. 2nd best interview of yours behind yours with Kreeft.
What I hear in Andrew as I listen to him talk, and I do say this with charity, is an obstinacy to whole heartedly submit to the Lord. I would say in this case it's cause of his son. Hence his desire to want to allow others to hold that i.e. not telling Barry even that she COULD be damned or bothered even every so often to try and evangelize Ben.
Cause as soon as he rebukes or evangelizes one, going by his apparent temper, he will be forced to confront that and choose whether or not to internalize that and if he did.
Which I think he would at that point based on my impression of his character) he would be forced to reconcile with the fact that he son-who "he loves more than anything"-is in unrepentant mortal sin.
Love how Matt puts the Strive21 ad right before the sex talk section.
“How do I replay you??” We have so much to be thankful for all the gracious gifts of God.
Love this interview. I have followed both of you for years. You definitely need to get Spencer on.
Thank you for the great chat. I don't want to do this, but I must make my complaint known regarding Locals. You say "go to Locals" to hear what has been cut, but I am a subscriber and supporter of yours over at Locals and cannot find this interview ANYWHERE. Please bear with me as I vent. I hate Locals. I can never find anything I wish to specifically look for, the navigation is atrociously confusing, and I am sorry to say I feel like I have gotten absolutely nothing out of my subscription other than the satisfaction that I have supported PWA. Okay, there. I have finished my rant. Blessings!
Fantastic back and forth !
The book was excellent! 4 out of 4 hits for the Cameron Winter books so far!
39:58 the beautiful irony of saying “I was so crippled I refused the crutch.”
Amazing interview!!! Matt you do such an amazingly wonderful job.I was very impressed how you stated your beliefs while talking about homosexuality, to someone who has a gay son. Also, Andrew said you cannot compare that to abortion because we know abortion is wrong, he doesn't know what it's like to be gay. But we do - based off of his explanations. We do know what it's like to be in love. He loves his wife. It would be like being in love with her, and not being able to be with her.
Notifications for a "premier" in 5 days' time is a little obnoxious.
You're the one who turned on notifications. Matt didn't hack your computer and do it, so idk why you're complaining to him.
I'm ready now!
Why... TV shows notify you 7 days out and then everyday up until they release.
Klavan seems like a really sweet guy, who is very mistaken on some important things. We should pray for him 🙏🏼 (and read his books :) )