Accuracy
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- The term "accuracy" is often misused, in my opinion. This is MY take on it. You might not agree, but it makes sense to me. :-)
I'm talking about "practical," defensive pistol accuracy here. If you have three Olympic Gold Medals for shooting bullseye targets, I'm not talking about you. :-)
By the way, a dictionary will tell you that shooters really mean "precision" when they use the term "accuracy," so lectures on the correct use of the terms will serve no purpose and just take up space. :-)
If you're curious about broken target plate, see pics by clicking on my Facebook link in my profile. Too many bullet strikes finally broke the sleeve / pipe that was holding the plate. I have a replacement, I think.
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![Shooting Techniques Part 1 [ Stance]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A1Cf0WEeXZk/mqdefault.jpg)
![Shooting Techniques Part 3 [ Trigger Control ]](/img/n.gif)
The Vocabulary 101 lesson on the terms "accuracy" vs "precision" comes up periodically here. See description. It's a bit like using the correct pronunciation of "Garand." You could pronounce the name of the "Garand" rifle the way John Garand actually pronounced his name; however, nobody would know what the heck you're talking about. Same with the term "Accuracy" that everybody into firearms uses almost daily, and often incorrectly. It might make you feel good to point out how people use it incorrectly, but good luck with your mission to change the world. I choose not to take that on that task. Too many other more important issues. Sorry. :-) The very same person all worked up and on his "high horse" about people using "accuracy" incorrectly is very likely the same person who could use his own grammar lesson on "snuck" vs "sneaked," "drug" vs "dragged," "ran" vs "run," "drink" vs "drunk," and especially "lie" vs "lay." :-)
Old people just rambling on about rambling on lol.. gotta love em. 😅
He's right, accuracy and precision are different things. If you shoot tight groups, you are precise but those groups may be a long way from your dead-center target. An accurate shooter will average close to that target, though he may have wide groups.
Camper Slimmer... I hope you're joking dude.. This gentleman has forgotten more about shooting than most will ever know.
hickok45 you are a very smart man
hickok45 Hey Man, I really enjoy your show on UTube... Cool Stuff Man...
I always just assumed that all the off target shots was due to my xds .45 having such a short barrel. Everyone says you wont get the accuracy with such a compact gun, and I believed them... until I saw you shoot it out to 80 yards. Then I realized it was just me sucking at shooting. I started working more on my grip and everything else to improve my accuracy! I am so much happier with it, now that I have improved myself! Great videos and great shooting! Thanks!
Same here
Lower sight radius means more difficult, not less accurate.
You nailed it my friend.....
Fortunately, shooters don't pay much attention to the "scientific terms." :-) If a person has to hold a bit below the bullseye but shoots a terrific group, the gun is extremely "accurate." All that is required is some different ammo or a change of sights in order to move the point of aim of this "accurate" firearm to where the shooter prefers. :-)
The term "accuracy" has been used the way it is today in the entire shooting world for so long that Merriam-Webster would only confuse things! :-)
2020 and your videos are still educating anyone with a vague interest in firearms. Thank you for the content
FACTS
10:18 is a great example of why you should always keep your gun pointed downrange with your finger outside of the trigger guard.
Thanks. We appreciate the support and confidence people have in us. I don't know everything and try not to act as though I do.
Your accuracy is beyond excellent no matter what you are shooting. I'm no where as good but I dry fire a lot , but don't do enough actual shooting. I'm going to remedy that to improve. 😊
It's just like in the drag racing world, they say the best thing you can do to make a car faster is adjusting the nut behind the wheel.
LOL, I love that saying. Adjusting the nut behind the wheel... priceless.
DEEREMEYER1 if you shift "faster" and if you react "faster," then it makes you a "faster" driver period... Quit trying to play word games.
@@bigdfitness5020 you know nothing about it then. You proved it in what you said. You can have the fastest reaction time of 10 drivers and be the fastest at shifting and be the slowest. There are 101 reasons why. Im sure you know them all though so I won't get into it.
Haha.
There's a nut behind the wheel? How do I adjust it?
I hope all is well with you and your family. Please do not let comments left by others trouble you, I can tell in your words that your heart is in the right place. You are a good man my friend. I enjoy the education you give us for free, in return I pay you a small compliment. Thank you for all you do. Life is good!
Thanks. I'm not always right on everything, I'm sure, but with a few billion people on the Internet and every fellow living in his mom's basement with an Internet connection, I'd be a sad case if I let Internet comments bother me much. :-) If 50 or 60 percent of viewers were telling me what an idiot I am, however, I believe I'd have to give it some consideration. :-)
Hi Hickok I have to say it at least more than 80% of people appreciate what you post, even if they disagree. I know people from the left who enjoy watching your videos and the people who don't really have the appreciation of guns that you have. I know because I live in CA and we have an assortment of people who live here and I have introduced them to your youtube videos. I can also say the same from the comments you get . I as a fan I also enjoy your vids . I learned a lot from shooting the gun, cleaning, and gun reviews. thanks for your dedication and hard work.
Hickok45 fan for life !
@John Grit bro we get it you wrote a book
@John Grit nice bud congrats. ur so smart
As a friend of mine use to say: "the accuracy of a gun is determined by a little piece called 'triggerpuller' ".
Facts tho because if u just pull the trigger and not squeeze it u force the gun down and more u more likely to anticipate recoil squeeze the trigger and grip it good and let the gun suprise u
My Papaw said many times that the weapon is only as accurate as the shooter allows it to be. He was a decorated WW2 vet so I took his words for stone. I've seen him strike a match with a 22 revolver many times and when I'd ask him how he did that he would always say practice. That is the main key. Practice with the firearm you use.
Practice with a good instructor is best as I've seen many, many people burn a lot of ammo and still can't hit their own foot because they just instilled bad habits. It's worth the time and expense to take a class because an instructor knows what to watch for and how to correct poor technique. If you don't see improvement while practicing on your own you're probably just cementing in bad habits. Dry fire to improve trigger control.
I'm late to the video, but that's a badass story, I too, would take what your pappy said as the gospel!
Well hollow point things like a good lesson in there. Back several years ago I guess over 20 or 30 I get off of work and stopped up on top of the hill on my driveway they have a couple of beers before I went home. Well I sit on the tailgate of my truck and I take my little 22 S&W and I would shoot rocks. If there was a real dark rock or a real light rock that you can see easily that's the one I would shoot and I done this about everyday. Well I also have a couple of Model 29 S&W 44 magnums that I deer hunt with. One fall day me and my son who was about 25 at that time were out in the lake fishing and a doe came swimming across the lake. I told my son you want to help clean it? He said yeah can I shoot it I said sure I handed in my 44 and cruised up getting close to him and told him don't shoot until he gets his feet on the bottom of the lake so he won't sink and we can't find him. Well his feet caught bottom and he started coming up the slope and my son fired, fired and fired again and again as the deer ran off into the woods. I said good Lord son I'll bet you $100 I could have hit that deer in the head with the first shot. He looked around at me and handed me the empty gun and said yeah Dad, but you got over $100 in that first shot! I couldn't argue with that look out if I figure all the ammo that I've shot in those old guns, it was well over $100! Keep on shooting and listen to us old timers every now and then.
A born teacher (and not only with hand guns). Always enjoyable. Like talking with a friend who just happens to know a helluva lot more than you do about guns and is willing to share his knowledge. Good stuff.
And Hickok demonstrates this beautifully...
He is a wizard of different types of guns and ammo
Your guns are all more accurate than mine. ;)
Love it.... lol..... Great comment!
Hey, its all about shooting time with all guns, isn't it? More shooting... more accurate.
Amen to that Mark Gman! If only I had his Glock instead of mine!!
you must be getting your guns from the same places as me...
Even when I buy expensive guns they sometimes miss the whole target completely... 😕
Yes...... HE IS....
@@bobinthewest8559 I know what you mean Bob. I've had a few guns when i started shooting many years ago that wouldn't even touch the target even when I gave them a stern warning that they better not miss.. 😁😁
When you risk to fall because there's too much brass on the ground, you know it has been fun! As always, a truly great video.
I think you did really well to transition from the 1911 to the Glock so easily. As you pointed out so well, it's getting to know your weapon and to use it well. Nicely done sir!
After the hundreds of videos of yours that I've watched, I am still in amazement of your shooting skills.
Accuracy is simply a matter of familiarity with your firearm. I've got an old Stevens 22 that belonged to my grandfather and I've been shooting it for 40+ years. Is it sandbag perfect? No, but I'd put money on my ability to hit a pop can with it just because I know that rifle. The most accurate rifle that I've honestly shot was a Remington 40X back in highschool on the ROTC rifle team, 27975B. Yeah, I still remember the serial number but then again, I usually shot 500 rounds a week through that great rifle.
Like Hickok said, it really amounts to range time and knowing your particular firearm because YOU are the most important variable in the equation. Great video that was spot on, thanks again!
Thanks for the video Hickok. Funny range story, a guy and his wife/girlfriend/whatever went to the range with his newly purchased CZ 75. At 7 yards his group was about 12", and he was complaining that the gun sucked, blah blah blah, but then his partner (a first time shooter) made multiple 4" groups on that same target. Needless to say, he didn't complain about the gun after that, but he suddenly shifted his fire from a.f.a.p. to slow-and-steady.
Lol , now that's funny
WhatsHappening783402 no you can’t but you can’t be fast and accurate if you don’t first practice that slow and steady. If you start slow and steady the speed will come. It becomes muscle memory. And before you know it you are fast and accurate
Btw I’m not trying to criticize anyone just giving in my two cents
I laugh at guys like that. Bringing in their gf in with a brand new dolled out 45 or 50cal trying to look cool, and they shoot like Yosemite Sam. Meanwhile I'm over here working on exhaling slower so I can get under 2" groups from twice the distance Geronimo over there's shooting.
I laugh at the guys who bring their girlfriends to the range and try to teach them combat drills in the attempt to show off. It's pretty clear that most of them don't have a good grasp on combat shooting themselves, and all their yelling and drilling towards their girlfriend is just stressing them out. And when it's quite likely that the girl just wanted to try shooting for the first time, not learn how to shoot in a defensive scenario.
I defy 99% of shooters standing and shooting to notice any difference between the best aftermarket barrel on the planet and the stock Glock barrel, or stock Sig, M&P, XDm, etc. A Ransom Rest might reveal some miniscule difference, which is irrelevant, of course, since nobody is going to shoot that way.
I love you, Hickok. You rock. Be blessed, sir.
I am just seeing this video for the first time. I had an accuracy issue with a Beretta 92D and complained to my friend at the range who took my gun and blew out the center of the target. His advice was more practice was required.Thanks for your videos and frankness when required.
A poor workman blames his tools.
Cut to fit, beat into place.
@Rusty Shackleford a 8 moa surpluss rifle is 8 '' groups at 100 yards but at 21 feet its a ragged hole with its mechanical accuracy value!
A poor workman can't afford the better tools.
Not really my trigger really makes a difference.
So that's the only awnser huh? Tools can never be an issue. Get the hell outta here.
I've been trying a variety of pistols lately (Glock 19, Beretta 92FS, Kimber 1911, Sig P320). I keep using the term accurate and after listening to this I thought about it and believe that it's probably the way I've shot them by how they've fit in my hand. The grip was bigger on some and the placement of my finger on the trigger would change. That's probably what accounted for the 'accuracy' difference. Thanks for a great lesson.
This is funny because I just left the range after shooting my M & P shield for the first time . I noticed my shots were low and left and was wondering if there was a problem with the gun . Now I realize I was flinching , so back to the range tomorrow : )
Russell Ferreira the trigger has some geeting use to on them guns as a pose to glock or xd
If you're a right handed shooter, shots pulling low and left is likely a combination of whack and torque. These two factors both have to do with trigger control. "Whack" is similar to what it sounds like; a little too abrupt a trigger pull. This causes the vertical plane error. Torque is caused by using too much finger, so you're applying force towards the left (if you're right handed, toward the right if left handed).
So basically you don't even need to use ammo to correct this; simply do dry fire exercises, or if you're concerned about wear, use snapcaps. Set up a target, or find something to use as one (remember, this is dry fire, so it doesn't matter what it is, but as always, obviously try to choose a safe direction. Then just focus on pulling the trigger very slowly and evenly once you have your sight picture. The goal is to fire and get the reset without moving the sights. Rinse and repeat and you should see a noticeable improvement next time you go to the range.
An easier way, albeit pricier is to get a laser bore module. If you're unfamiliar, it's basically a laser pointer that fits in your barrel. Pulling the trigger flashes the laser out the barrel and shows where the round would have hit. The goal here would be to get your sight picture and try to get little "starburst" reactions when the trigger breaks, instead of any streaking movements.
Correct analysis, to correct this you should do a lot of dry fire. Make sure it's unloaded then find a safe direction to pick out a target. Obtain a correct sight picture and slowly squeeze the trigger. Never close your eyes when firing and maintain the sight on the bull while the trigger breaks. If you do this a hundred times three or four times a week you will greatly reduce your error over a month or two. What you are doing is trying to make it go bang when your sight drifts across the bullseye. Start with a large bull at about five yards, fire at the center of the bull. When your bullets strike within an inch of each other move back to ten and so on till your shots begin to drift low and left. Move back to the last distance your group was centered. Concentrate on a smooth pull regardless of your sight picture. A good trigger will make you more accurate than the best sight picture.
@@treeguyable just came across your old post mr. Mike, you know I have the same experience sometimes with some of my guns long guns and pistols. Sometimes believe it or not the grip makes the difference. I do better with revolvers well let me rephrase that most revolvers then I do with most automatics. And it could be that I've toted a revolver for over 45 years and I've just not done that with the autos. I always figured I try a gun out, if it don't feel good I'll pass on it, or if I've done bought it I sell it. Live long and shoot often!
Russell, I had the same problem. What helped me the most was being told to think of pulling the trigger directly back towards your wrist. As soon as you forget, your shot will go down to the left.
This is a great topic to talk about. Me, I don't worry about how "accurate" the gun is. Accuracy only defines how close you are to the bulls-eye. A handgun can always be sighted in to make it accurate. What I would worry about is precision, how tight of a grouping you get out of any particular handgun, shot after shot.
Its amazing how many people don't know the difference between accuracy and precision. I guess a great way to put it, is that accuracy can be measured in terms of a single shot you take, whereas precision is measured over many, many shots.
I am soo happy you put that out there. I have been saying for years that most handguns are way more accurate than you or I Ever will be.
It's great to hear this from someone with a lot of influence with shooters. If you shoot a particular gun well, it's good gun for you. If you shoot a gun poorly, don't call it inaccurate. It just doesn't suit your shooting preference.
As a sniper, trigger control is vital!!! We tend to “milk” the gun as we fire, it’s instilled in us from birth as we pick stuff up. These modern guns are far more accurate than we really are.
In my opinion, spending some time bench resting a pistol is a good thing. you pointed out a lot of variables, and your exactly right. I like to put a fair amount of rounds through my pistols off a good solid rest to see where they shoot. this gives me a good base line of where it is shooting before I go off hand shooting. It seems as a good indicator to me of what effect my grip, trigger, and other things do to my point of impact. but in all actuality, the real concern of accuracy is far better placed on rifles rather than pistols
Absolutely. In 99.999999% of cases its not the firearm, its the shooter. I try to always preface such statements with "I". I am not as accurate with a Beretta M-9 as I am with a SIG. And I am most accurate with a CZ 75 pattern 9mm pistol.
Thank you for this vid. I am nearing my 65th birthday and will soon start the process of obtainging my firearm certification and purchasing my first firearm. From watching UA-cam and reading articles on the type of rifle I would like to consider purchasing I found myself inundated with the term accuracy. To such a degree I am researching all the info I can on a certain rifle till I enevitualy find that one article to deter me and start the seach for another. A never ending circle search for something that really depends on what I want to use the rifle for and how much time I spend becoming proficient with the basics (which by the way few ask in any of the things I have read or watched). Thanks again and keep up the good work.
Sir, you are amazing at what you do . I have watched and learned so much from your videos and knowledge.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge !
I wish you were my grandpa.
@SuperBmxbadass, Bring that Glock to me. I'll gladly take it off your hands for a fair price. Even though it's totally inaccurate and useless, I'll still give you $200.00 sight unseen.
Of all the different shooting experts I've watched on UA-cam you are the best your so down to earth and your experience is unmatched in my opinion
I finally purchased my first 9mm, a CZ 75b. I couldn't wait to get it down to the range. After 50-80, I was consistently shooting low right. As they are fixed sights I was dismayed to find this and initially thought I'd bought a duff gun. After watching your videos on trigger pull and grip, I realize that the gun is fine, its me that's off. So next trip down to the range I notice a much bigger improvements in group and placement due to applying the correct principles. Thanks for the great videos
As you demonstrated, your videos on Stance (1), Grip (2), Trigger Control (3) equate to the shooter's ability to be Accurate. Your ability to adapt to various platforms strongly demonstrates in your video here as the shooter, and not necessarily the gun. Great video as always.
First let me say that you are the most creditable of all the shooting/Gun related videos on Utube. Recently I was undecided between buying a semi Auto pistol or a Revolver. I went to the lounge of my home town gun store and reviewed your video review on both guns. Dificult decision. I bought the S&W Shield over the Ruger LCR. The LCR will be next. After the wife cools off. Any way ... Your video on accuracy. I feel your pain. Gun people must be the most opinionated bunch I've witnssed. What they like is all that matters. Gripe & Groan & Piss & Moan. They.bad mouth every thing they don't like. They live in the negative...Mostly what they don't like. When I view a gun review all I want to hear are the features of the gun. Let me decide if I like it. They can keep their opinions. I'll sept off my soap box now. Enjoy and trust your videos. Your humor also.
Thanks for tuning in. It's a pretty good example of "A little learning is a dangerous thing," to continue the misquoting of Alexander Pope. :-) The more one studies and experiences virtually any area or endeavor, the more he realizes how little he knows, provided his ego is smaller than the state of Nebraska. It just FEELS good to people to pretend in their own minds that they know everything and express really strong opinions about it. :-)
hickok45 What is max shooting distance for ed brown "special forces" do you think is good? I like your reviews could you do make some video with your advise about carry and shooting every week i shot 150-300 rounds,that is ok or too much for custom gun lol ?
Thank you .
From a statistical standpoint, accuracy is how close you are to where you are aiming (center of the bullseye). And precision is how repeatable (tight) your group is.
Excellent video.
Ergonomics, “fit”, comfort adds to control and steadiness. This must also be a factor.
I love this. I have told people when I and I stress "I" have a problem shooting a gun. I never blame the gun but many do in order to pretend they are super with some guns. My arthritis has been causing me issues with my trigger finger for some years now. I finally realizes I can shoot good with my other hand or using my middle finger making sure to keep my index finger out of the slides way. I enjoyed watching this as I do all your videos. Thank you.
"This gun is less accurate" is pretty much "Your controller is broken"
"Modder" is always a good one
This reminds me of a comment on a review that made me laugh. A guy was reviewing the video game Dark Souls which is known for being pretty difficult and doesn't 'hold your hand' like many games do. He said the game was trash because he couldn't get past the first boss and gave the game a 1 star review. A person commented on his review and aptly retorted "Sounds like the game gave you a 1 star review."
hickock doesnt use a scope and lock the rifle down and shoot groups at 100 yards and show ammo differences !
All I want to say is Thank you. I find your videos so much more informative than anyone else's. The weakest link in the chain is the shooter. I say this as I am on my way out the door to pick up my new S & W SD40VE. Which I'm sure will take me a few hundred rounds to get a good feel for.
There certainly are mechanical differences in pistol accuracy, the most prominent among semi autos being barrel lockup. Sights and trigger affect the shooter, not the consistent repeatability to release a bullet along the same path. That being said, I couldn't agree with Hickok more. Those differences are too often debated between people who couldn't hit the barn if they were standing in it. Practical shooting skill is far and away the most important factor. The same can be said for driving, compare teenagers learning to drive vs NASCAR pros... I think the NASCAR pro could determine which car handles better but most will drive down the road quite nicely for the average driver. Teenagers will forever debate which is the hotter and bestest car out there but do they really know what they are talking about?
"What is the point here?" you may ask... simply this, practice, learn, practice some more, learn some more, then once educated and experienced, reconsider the debate.
Good luck, good shooting, and...
Life is boring........ or an adventure. Your choice.
@Hicock45 One can learn so much from your videos. You are a true genius and a humble gentleman. Keep enlighting the rest of lesser us.
Bad handgun accuracy = good reason to buy another handgun
I wholly believe certain guns just do better align with certain individuals' ergonomics. I'm quick and decent with my Glocks... Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with my buddy's Sig.
Rooster Cogburn or could be you not used to it
That's always my excuse. Their must be a gun out their more accurate than the ones I already have. Won't know till I buy them🤣
Or good reason to practice more!
I love my sigs... and my S&W revolvers... and my magnum research revolver...
I've never shot a glock. A friend allowed me to look his glock over and I decided the moment I gripped it that I wouldn't buy one. The angle of the grip just felt "wrong" to me. I'm not knocking glocks at all, but as individuals, each of us will definitely "fit" some guns better than others.
I think the best thing for a new shooter to do before purchasing their first gun, is to shoot a variety of guns (either guns belonging to friends, or by renting them) and see what is most "natural" to them.
I'm past that first step, but I definitely need more trigger time on all of them. and who knows... maybe one day I'll actually shoot a glock and change my mind about them.
As a Land Surveyor I am frequently explaining the difference between accuracy and precision, and it particularly drives me crazy when talking to fellow shooters. Good job in showing the difference!
How do I spell Accuracy H I C K O K 4 5
how I spell kissass F R A N K
Cassius lmfao
I totally agree. He can shoot a slingshot and a BB gun more accurately than I could shoot the finest match-grade gun made buy the finest gun wizard in the world
T H I C C O C K 45
@@XXXIMSEXYNIKNOWITXXX How do you spell smartass CASSIUS
Almost all of your videos are one-take. No BS, just straight forward. I think that says so much in itself. You're very well respected in the youtube community, and i almost always come here for opinions/information on these matters. Great video.
hickok45 are you a left eye dominant shooter but right handed? if you are what's the best way of training? I've been doing competition shooting for a while but I just recently found out I'm cross eye dominant.
I'd ne glad to see any comment on this be cause I'm strongly right handed but right right eye vision sucks.
This is one of your classic foundation videos. So glad it's still up and running. this is a forever video. Thanks
I agree with this 100%! In short, "It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian!"
New shooter here. Enjoying the videos. I've been to the range a handful of times, and my buds, a Canadian restricted license holder and a US Marine have both commented that my safety was good. That's down to your videos, so thank you for that.
Anyhow, I totally agree with your main point, especially as a new shooter. I'm always going to be the nut behind the trigger. For me, I'd rather shoot a bunch of things and see which one works for me, rather than worry about which one works better in a vise.
Thanks again, enjoying the videos.
Made me chuckle when my friends all had me order KKM barrels for them, even after I told them that a drop in barrel can not improve accuracy and may actually reduce it if their factory glock barrel locked up tight. They refused to believe me, they shot larger groups after receiving the barrels and proceeded to claim the gun was a tack driver, all of them. Placebo effect is exceptionally annoying, especially when people waste money on things to make up for their own failures but think it actually improved things when it made them worse..
Totally false. The stock glock 20 barrel shoots OK, But when I put my KKM in i am lights out with it. There IS a difference. The KKM is just a more precise and accurate.. No ways around it. I can use the same ammo and the KKM is flat out more accurate. The stock barrel just kind of puts shots in the area of where I want it to go and the KKM puts it where I want it to go. To me that's worth it. But i like precision, others like H45 is happy with in the general area which is fine for him. Just different strokes for different folks.
Yeah, it's almost funny how people try to make up for shooting skills by purchasing more equipment. Of course, some things, especially a better trigger and sights, can sometimes make a noticeable difference, even when shooting offhand. Doesn't make the firearm more inherently accurate, but does make it easier to shoot more accurately. A more "accurate" barrel would be almost impossible to quantify without a Ransom Rest. Then the difference would be very minimal, if at all, in my opinion. I'm talking about standing and shooting, of course. Benchrest shooting is a totally different issue and different hobby from what most shooters are engaged in when it comes to handguns.
I am glad you are happy with you factory barrels. That's Great! But it's an undeniable fact my KKM is a better shooter than my glock barrel even when NOT using a rest of any kind. When I shoot/practice, kind of like your setup (but not as awesome) with plates but I add paper targets too, my hit ratio is higher for sure with the KKM.
I originally bought my KKM barrel for the sole purpose of better chamber support for better longevity of my brass. The improved accuracy was just a real nice bonus.
As far as trigger goes i am doing much better with the stock trigger but might add a 3.5 connector in the near future. I also believe that a good trigger helps your accuracy, Along with a seasoned TRIGGER FINGER.
H45 we will just agree to disagree. I very much enjoy your videos so keep them coming.
Same thing with musicians. Nothing wrong with having nice instruments, but skill and education is the more important than having fancy things.
hickok45 Plus a ransom rest won't do much with most modern semi autos, as it's going to only measure how accurate the gun is based off of how tight the slide to frame fit is. When in reality, slide to frame fit is pretty irrelevant for accuracy since your barrel and sights are on your slide.
Thanks for your videos. While watching your video on accuracy, I remembered shooting my 92D and having issues getting a good group. I complained to my LEO friend that obviously there must be an issue with the gun only to have him use it to put a full clip within 1" of each other. I will never forget the look on his face when he told me there was nothing wrong with the gun.
Great video... so what's more accurate tho, a M&P Shield or a M&P 9c?
Tt Ss I was being sarcastic, buzzkill.
With the amount of dumbasses on the internet, sometimes it is hard to tell when a person is sarcastic.
Hickcock45, very well stated. Defensive handguns aren't primarily designed to shoot bulls eyes and tight groups. I have always thought what you stated regarding the silly emphasis on "accuracy". I believe reliability and durability are the most important attributes of a defensive handgun. Most/all handguns are accurate enough for their intended purpose.
I find that the more I practice , the more "accurate" I get no matter what pistol I use. PRACTICE safely.
I find that applies to most things in life.
Been watching hickok45 for many years. So refreshing to listen to this man's wisdom and knowledge. Watching him shoot in this video tells me that his thoughts on accuracy are 100% true. What would you bring to a gunfight with hickok45? Nothing - stay away!
Hickok45, your wisdom is impressive. Watching this video has cleared up a many questions I have had over the years and really given me something to think about. I now have an entirely new perspective on accuracy. Thanks for your help and I always learn something new from every video of yours that I watch.
Well said. I grabbed a P250C Gen 2 from a buddy a few months ago and was embarrassed the first time I took it to the range. The forums were loaded with complaints. Following a few hours and few hundred rounds at the range, no problems. In no way am I saying any gun manufacturer is immune from periodically releasing individual defective units into the wild, but a firearm is a machine; they are designed to do the same thing over and over again. The trigger was consistently long and consistently heavy. Like you said, there are plenty of variables. Yet, if the operation is consistent, it is all about adaptation.
I think it's more the comfort level of the firearm.to the individual.
I had just purchased my first firearm, a Kimber 1911 .45 acp. I took it to the range for the first time and did not do very good. I have shot other handguns in the past and never had a problem. Made me think the gun was inaccurate, but after this video it made me realize it only takes practice with your gun to get it down. My favorite part of what hickok45 said was "accuracy looms too large in their mind. Accuracy is get out to the range, practice with it, you'll be accurate."
When I want to get good information on a gun or another gun related topic, I go to Hickok45. I know the information given will be honest and informative.
As always, thank you for the great videos. I'm relatively new to the world of shooting sports and have been a subscriber for about 2 years now. The first pistols I purchased were the S&W Bodygaurd .380 and M&P shield 9mm. I shot both poorly despite considerable practice. This past winter I traded both pistols for a full size M&P 9mm. My groups have tightened up considerably and I'm finding my time at the range infinitely more enjoyable. I watched other (more experienced) folks fire my smaller pistols "accurately" with little effort. The guns weren't inaccurate, my operation and handling of them was just sub par. Don't blame the tool, blame the fool operating it.
" hickok45 in reply to hickok45 1 week ago " LOL
We all know that when hickok45 holds any firearm it instantly becomes much more accurate
I haven’t shot in many years not I got set up again and hitting the range. It comes back to you. Great video
Spot on Hickok45, spot on. Words of wisdom. Thank you Hickok45... Absolutely love your vids. You Sir, are the accurate one...
went to a new range and mentioned your shooting ability. everyone knew about you. thanks for your wonderful site and sense of humor.
Thank you so much for doing this video on this topic exactly the way you did it.
I hope you don't mind, but I am bookmarking this video on my phone. From now on, I will pre load it on my phone before I set foot at the gun range. I'll save so much time by just handing my phone to people blowing their opinions about which gun & why. I honestly hope we don't jam you-tube's servers ;-)
I think it will be just fine. :-) Just remember that when I get on my "soap box" about accuracy, as I do here, I'm talking about standing and shooting offhand. If a person is benchrest shooting rifles very carefully, then he or she can discern some differences, of course. Maybe even with handguns sometimes. When standing and shooting offhand, though, especially for 99% of us, the biggest factor in accuracy is the human holding the firearm.
I totally agree with you on this, I have noticed over the years that there are rifles, handguns, and shotguns that just shoot better for me, not that they are more accurate than another model, they just work better for me, the next guy may have a different result. I always hear shooters at the trap range blaming a bad day on shot size or velocity, or the sun or wind. I just have some bad days I guess, for no reason at all.
I took my 9mm XDm to a training course at Front Sight in Pahrump, NV. I thought it wasn't that accurate and pulled low and to the left. One of the instructors fired my XDm and I mentioned the sights were off. He fired one shot and he said the sights were dead on! Within 2 days it was shooting perfectly! Turned out the whole time it was me. I asked this question and they told me exactly what you just said. Everyone I shoot with wants to shoot ragged holes. They told us for any self defense situation you don't want to fire in the same hole. They want the shots after firing several round to be covered by your first. They said holes with an inch or 2 between them is perfect. For in a self defense situation, with the rounds an inch apart they are doing more damage to different areas which should help stop that threat a bit sooner. Hickok, thank you to you and John for all the great videos. We really appreciate all your help! BTW, if you ever want to check out Front Sight please let me know?
Even some gun-shop owners/sales people push the "accuracy" thing too hard
Some guy at a gun shop tried to tell me he could shoot 2.5 inches at 80 YARDS WITH A GLOCK 20. I walked away mid sentence on that one.
actually very easy if you have a bench, maybe a 6 inch barrel.
Sam L 2.5 inches at 80 yards is more like hand loads through a match fit bar-sto. He said factory 20. I have no doubts about block accuracy but if you're telling me you can throw up a 2.5 inch group with any drop in barrel and factory ammo i'd love to see it.
Oh yea I couldn't do that standing, but I also use good ammo and keep my barrel clean and use a 5.3 lone wolf. I also have better sights because I don't like the glock sights past 50 yards. So I guess the gun is capable of that but with standard sights and standing you'd have to be more lucky than good. I've had times where I get 3 to hit in the same spot out of 5 the other two were about 3 inches apart from the group, but I was sitting down on a bench at only 55 yards.
Sam L Yeah this guy was full of it. I was reading a test the other day btw, KKM, S3F, and ZEV barrels and the best one shot right at 5 inches at 50 yards with it's favorite ammo. Block barrels are mostly plenty accurate but I've had some that just wouldn't group but it's rare.
I qualified with a 2" 357 S&W and came in third among my fellow students shooting against nines and .22;s. The little Airweight is accurate at close range but after 50 rounds I had a large bruise on my hand. This revolver is comfortable to carry all day and easy to speed load. I wouldn't want to get in a firefight but as a CCW I think if it's too heavy or too bulky it's useless and you won't want to carry it all day. I was awed by it's accuracy even when rapid point shooting at close range.
Accuracy is in the shooter, not the weapon.
There are accuracy differences between guns for sure. Call it, 'potential accuracy', as measured by how a particular gun fired from a machine rest will group with an optimized load when firing under controlled conditions that eliminate environmental factors such as wind and lighting. The machine rest eliminates all of the human error of course. Indeed as Hickock45 mentioned, most all guns are more accurate than the shooter, at least this is true of handguns which generally are fired in an offhand mode. To be fair & realistic, 'practical accuracy' applied to self-defense situations is a shooter's ability to hit the vital areas of a target, typically the thoracic cavity or in situations, the cranio-occular region of the head. We can't get a sense for this kind of accuacy between the Ed Brown 1911 & the Glock 21 with Hickock45's demo since we don't know where the projectiles landed on the steel targets; perhaps (even probably) the Ed Brown shot significantly tighter groups than the Glock, but then again, maybe not. Hickock45 forever wows us with his marksmanship. No doubt however, removing the machine rest and relying upon the shooter brings in several other elements peculiar to the gun such as heft & balance, sights style, sight radius (longer is better), grip factors like thickness, angle, material & feel, along with grip (holding) consistency, plus all the peculiarities of trigger type (double vs. single action, travel, trigger break pressure, etc.). Also, even velocity makes a difference...a high velocity round exits the barrel more quickly which means shooter-induced gun movement & wobble, and poor follow-through are less pronounced than with slower moving projectiles that remain in the barrel longer. Anyway, 'accuracy' can be contextualized to apply to both the weapon as well as the shooter.
Accuracy between firearms is definitely real. But the point was more there isn't really a practical way to tell the difference due to the shooter.
+Snookynibbles tocoloeddie
Damn, you sure love hearing yourself. All you did was repeat what "the man" said.
Get a life and SHUT-UP!
yes mainly, 99% of misses are due to the shooter
that's it brother! you nailed it. counting that the sights are not off, accuracy only rests in the operator.
Though you never say it in the video I think the idea you are trying to convey is "Proficiency"! I always try to emphasize that when I talk with people and friends about shooting, especially shooting offhand. If you are not proficient, consistent, then practical accuracy of hitting the target repeatedly is rare. I generally only refer to accuracy when I am developing/working up a handload, but then it all falls back to consistency and repeatability of the load. After that it falls back to me to stay proficient with the firearm to maintain the capable accuracy of the firearm. Hickock45, I absolutely love your videos and how you share your love for and experience of shooting with us. If only more people would share the things they enjoy the most with others.
Most of the time when I hear "It's not accurate," It's a sight/scope problem.
Fa Kenews I think just as often it's "operator error" that results in poor accuracy
I am older guy! I totally agree! My only problem occured about 4 or so years ago. I entered into the "polymer world"! Yep, late bloomer lol!
From 1911 in .45 or 9mm for over 40 years was a "accuracy" issue being I was not shooting these guns well! 1911's and steel revolvers for decades!
Soooo which one is more accurate ? lol
Yes.
When Hickock loads a firearm, and right before he pulls the trigger...a God of precision embeds itself into his body and BANG!!! BULLSEYE. Your the man Hickok never get tired of watching your vids, always learn tons.
HICKORY, YOUR MY FAVORITE.
IVE BEEN THINKING. I THINK YOU SHOULD WRITE A BOOK AND TELL YOUR STORY. THERE ARE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS THAT WOULD LIKE TO HEAR IT. PLEASE GIVE THIS SOME THOUGHT. IF YOU EVER DO THIS. I WOULD LIKE TO BUY THE FIRST ONE. THANKS FOR LISTENING
Case in point. I never noticed the difference between guns like you say Hickock. I made sure I learned how to shoot 1" groups at 25 yards with all my handguns. I don't always do that, but don't have to. When I pay attention,slow fire,two hands,off hand, I will eventually shoot 1" groups at 25 yards. On very bad days never worse than within a few inches of what I aim at. Three things are certain: 1)Practice makes you shoot better groups. 2)Firearms are more accurate than most shooters abilities. 3)Comparing accuracy of handguns is senseless unless you are a world class shooter. As usual Hickock shares his practical minded thinking. Thanks.
Also: Line up sights to bulls eye,keep the sights on the bulls eye, bullet hits bulls eye. With most handguns.
Hahaha good ole days range looks more packed these days I always tell people when they talk about handgun accuracy or even carbines "if your asking.... The firearm is more accurate the YOU, so don't worry about it" lol
Brandon Shepherd 8
You nailed it Hickok ! I had to get off a Glock blog when new shooters were constantly asking “ I just bought my Glock ** , what parts do I need to replace to make it more accurate? “ some had yet to even fire their pistols .
I'm not surprised at all. I wish I'd known long ago what I know now; I'd have been after my high school and college basketball coaches to buy some much more "accurate" basketballs! :-) Actually, I wish I'd have thought of it back then; I'd have been messing with my teammates all the time, claiming that a certain basketball was more accurate than the others. I was known as a pretty good basketball shooter back then and could have had some real fun with that - can't believe I didn't think of it then. I could have taken a marker and had the balls marked with a 1, 2, 3, etc. right one down to the last one in terms of how "accurate" I had discovered they were. :-)
Great video! I've been trying to tell my friends the same thing. Accuracy is more about the person holding the firearm. Than the firearm its self. Great job! Love your videos,keep them coming !
stumbled across this while looking for a good 1911 (for cheap) you had it right way back then... STILL so very right TODAY !!!
A bench rest is actually a good place for new shooters to start. That's what I did way back in the day. That allowed me to sight in and get comfortable with my gun. Now that only lasted a for a few visits to the range. Then I went offhand. Now, knowing that the gun was sighted in, there was no mistake that the off shots were me and not the gun. That made the process of correcting my shooting happen a lot faster.
I agree completely. I was taught not accuracy, but consistency. That me, my holster, my weapon, and the ammo I put in it is a weapon system. The more consistent I got in the fundamentals, without radically changing the system, the more, "accurate" I got. The more proficient I got putting steel on target faster. I haven't owned a gun yet that I my skill has outpaced.
You have got to be one of the greatest personalities on UA-cam. Can't express that enough.
i agree with your "soapbox". when talking to other, more experienced shooters i will say that "I" am more accurate with my revolver, single six, than i am with my semiauto, mkIII 22/45. i am working on making myself more accurate but shoot themdifferently. my revolver i am trying to get bulleyes and the semiauto i try to be on target while changinginging target every 2 rounds. keep up the great job your doing with all your videos, newbies like myself and experienced shooters all are learning from you , usually the good stuff.
I agree with you. It seems like most people attribute their ability with a particular hand gun as it's accuracy. How well a person shoots a handgun isn't it's accuracy. While there are handguns with much better mechanical accuracy than others, almost no shooters in the world are good enough to tell. The biggest reason for this is because a much better mechanical accuracy isn't as noticeable a factor as things like trigger control or familiarity with a particular firearm.
I cobbled together a bicycle when I was a kid. I won’t go into specifics, but it was ridiculous. Most kids had a hard time even riding it at all, but I could ride it no handed all day. I knew everything about that bike, and I rocked it. This is the same principle.
Grip,stance,eye sight, trigger pull,control of weapon. Any of those off you won’t
Hit the target group consistently. Your right .a well manufactured weapon is more accurate than the majority of shooters.
👍
H45, just a detail: My understanding is that accuracy really means how close to the aim point the round hits or closer to bullseye. Precision means how close the rounds consistently hit compared to previous, i.e. grouping tightness.
I completely agree with you. Unless the handgun is really worn or of particularly low quality, it's more accurate than all but olympic gold medalists and other top competition shooters.
Most of the time what ordinary people mean by "accurate" is actually "easy for me to shoot accurately". A single action pistol with a 3lb trigger is easier for me to shoot accurately, compared to the exact same pistol with a 12lb trigger. A pistol with a grip that fits my hand better in size and shape is also easier to shoot accurately.
Hickok45 brings up some valid points here. All guns have anywhere from a three to five inch barrel. Not all pistols are designed for home defense. Some are designed for professional shooting, some for security. If an intruder breaks into your house, are you worried about grouping at 100 yards? No. If you want to be more accurate with a certain firearm, you have to practice with that firearm so you can anticipate the outcome. Anybody can set up a paper target and with time can have decent grouping. What makes accuracy hard is anticipating adrenaline filled moments. What your heart does, how your breathing changes, how your vision gets altered.
I like watching your videos, you know your stuff. As a former USAF SP and weapons instructor, I can tell you that your fundimentals are your biggest things when it comes accuracy. My duty M-9 shot just as good as my CZ-75, SR 1911, or super blackhawk. Sadly most of my students don't use the fundimentals we would teach and then blame the gun for not working right when it is really thier fault for missing. Keep on your soapbox, you are a knowledgable person and you can never learn too much.
Thank You Hickok45,
I enjoy watching your videos,
Regarding accuracy, I really don’t think accuracy is relevant to the guns, we should speak about precision. The ability to shoot all rounds every time in same place.
Accuracy though, it the ability to place the bullet in the exact point we want.
If the gun has its natural ability to gather the shoots, (precision)
The shooter should do one of two:
1) Adjust to the gun - Learn how and set the hand better
2) If he can not get it right- look for a different gun setting.
Once all fits- you are happy.
+Yos B Everybody calls it "accuracy," so it would just confuse everybody to start calling it "precision."
Absolutely agree
Great video, you give a lot of good info. There was one thing I noticed, around 7:45 when you were talking about placing the gun in the vice and observing how tightly the holes in the target were grouped together after firing a few rounds. I think the word you are looking for is precision. Accuracy is the measure of how close you come to a desire outcome (ex. how close you get to the bulls eye.) Precision is the measure of the consistency of the outcomes (ex. how close the holes in the target are grouped together.) An example would be shooting at a target with a poorly adjusted scope. Human error aside, all the shots would be grouped very closely together, but would not be near the bulls eye. This would be shooting precisely but inaccurately. Just a thought, keep making great vids!
Yep, that comes up frequently on this video, but in the shooting world, people use the term "accuracy," even is it's not a "precise" term. Most of the time when the term "accuracy" is used in the shooting world, what is meant is "precision." Doesn't really matter because it would just totally confuse people at this point if the terms were used correctly. It's like when I make the comment that I'm going to go "lie" on the beach and get some sun; my wife thinks I mean that I'm going out to the beach again and "lie" to the hot beach babes again about being a CIA agent or Rocket Scientist, when in reality, I'm just using proper grammar, the correct use of the verb "lie." :-)
hickok45 Oh okay that makes sense! Honestly I kinda thought about that after I commented, that it's just the fact that the term accuracy is used in the shooting world like you said. Come to think of it, Iv'e never heard anyone say that's a "precise" gun. Iv'e always referred to guns with the term accurate too. That's a funny analogy about lying to the beach babes :)
hickok45 You should teach English or something!!!! ;)
Watching you shoot has instilled a tremendous amount of confidence in my Glocks capability's.
(which I purchased after listening to you; and bingeing on your vids)
Finally a person who explained how accurate a weapon is. It is as accurate as the person who uses it. I believe the more you use a particular weapon the more proficient you become with that weapon. Oh and by the way the 230 yd shots with the desert eagle and the .45 beautiful use of skill. it taught me something on sighting I was not aware of. Thank you for your posts
If a handgun fits in my hand well, has sights that are favorable to my eyes, and the trigger is reasonable, I can shoot most fairly well. Best world-class handgunner I have ever known is also a third generation gunsmith. Shooting at a level where basically all the shots go through the same hole (size of the hole the determining factor). He was paid for years to shoot hours every day on a government range, practice makes perfect. He has done work for movies and television too. For the really fast trick stuff, he would train actors/stunt people to repetitively shoot staged scenes over and over again for months to look as authentic as possible. And they were mostly using blanks. Also, practicing with an unloaded firearm is very helpful and doesn't empty the wallet.
I stumbled across your videos last year and absolutely love them. And have learned a lot by watching them and reading the comments of your viewer's. I am curious is to who and why would 65 people give this video thumbs down?
65 people who spent too much money on a expensive gun and too many accessories to make it more accurrate just found out thier guns accuracy changed nada.