Its a shame the games storytelling is so difficult to decipher that we need these well crafted deeply thought out videos. It'd be nice to play the game and naturally gain that appreciation for the bosses/other aspects of the game if the lore was actually presented properly in game.
Can you time stamp where that is for me? I watched this vid last night and I wanted to see that part again but I can't find it. Much appreciated if you can!
And Ainsel is also a fairy trope. A fairy asks for your name, you respond "my name is me ainsel" (my own self) thus the fairy cannot steal your real name.
On the subject of tropes "marais" is french for a swampy area which makes sense with the lore of the castle sinking into one. Also what do you guys think about that : malenias bloom animation really looks like a phoenix being reborn with the colors and all. And Malenia has a bird winged helmet. Don't know what to make of it though.
30:05 post dlc this makes so much sense that she was there to fetch radahn's soul so that he could become miquella's new consort instead, interesting how you were able to make out the ulterior motives based on just godrick not getting killed...
Vaaty, If I may tell you something. I’m a 42-year-old father and three. I played this game for about 50 hours never did complete it got to the fire giant, and Milenia but life happens now I experience this game vicariously through you. I can’t thank you enough for doing the work you do. It keeps me connected to a universe that I only wish I could spend more time in. As always well done I believe you’re one of the best storytellers not just in the video game genre but on this platform as a whole. Chris.
@@thedoomslayer5863 oh, that’s not it at all I wish. I left corporate America to branch out on my own a couple of years ago. While trying to build my business and support the family. Funny because people say you shouldn’t spend all of your leisure time working. But building is business is the most fun I’ve had in my entire life honestly even though I’ve sacrificed gaming/drumming/golf things like that. I get just as much satisfaction out of seeing the business grow as I did doing and playing these leisurely activities. Also got two special needs kids under eight years old. So there’s a little bit behind Why do you think I don’t have scheduling skills
@@AGlimpseInside Funny you call it corporate America yet go on to do something corporate. Eh if its what you like doing i guess, i've yet to meet a business owner who has "fun" with it, most are stressed working their balls off when a subordinate underperforms or messes up or when there's a lack of workers ect. The only ones i have met that are happy are retired and no longer stuck in the rat race and get to just like the 20-30 years they have left before the reaper calls their number.
@@thedoomslayer5863 bro, not having time for games does not immediately indicate ‘scheduling skills’…it just means they’ve got different, higher priorities
@@crazycupcakewizard1876 Based off what he says he wishes he could, if its something you really want to do but say you cant, often times its just not using your time efficiently thats the point of what i was saying.
I don't know why but I love the idea of Malenia going along with her troops, walking through stormveil towards calid, when godrick calls her a bitch or something and she decides to take a minute just to beat him up
I like to imagine it being completely one sided as well lmao like that one fight in jujutsu kaizen where itadori and nanamin just fuck mahito up lmaooo "Bitch fight back, call me that name again i dare you, i double dare you!".
I think she'd be perfectly calm about it, just casually humiliating him without even wasting her breath to say something. like if something got stuck to her shoe.
@@r.dommizsed2377 I feel like the whole battle would be one sided. I mean, how could a regular ass Godrick soldier deal with a godamn Cleanrot knight? Those guys can literally shoot rings of pure holiness from their scythes as an attack. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Malenia didn’t lose a single knight during that battle.
On the point of Malenia only blooming twice it’s also worth noting that the victory message for defeating Malenia is “DEMIGOD FELLED” instead of the “GOD SLAIN” you get when defeating Elden Beast.
Am I missing something? It doesn't say anything when you kill her or the other Demi-gods? you just get their rememberance, great rune and the trophy. Elden Beast is the only one with a victory message?
@@custardpup6385 all bosses leave a victory message upon death, just before you gain the runes for killing them. You have 4 tiers, "Enemy Slain" refers to bosses that aren't actually bosses but still have a boss health bar. "Great Enemy Slain" refers to any actual non demigod boss, placidusax or Godfrey for example. "Demigod Slain" refers exclusively to demigods, and "God Slain" is Radagon and Elden beast.
Malenia attacked Radahn because he had halted the stars, which halted Miquella's eclipse. This is what makes the story even more beautifully tragic because she didn't March for glory, power, a rune or the elden ring as she'd abandoned all of these things. She marched for her *Vin Diesel Voice* FAMILY. And through ultimate twist of tragic irony, it was because of her march that her brother was left unprotected to be stolen away by Mogh.
@@alexrowe7063 I mean to be fair, Marika told her children/half children which includes all the Shardbearers to go and kill each other for the Elden throne. They all had their agendas but kinda had no but to fight anyway that or they'll be forsaken and become sacrifices. Now Idk what "forsaken" means whether that means they'll get assassinated or what.
Radahn and Miquella weren't connected at all. Ranni's fate was bonded with stars, because she was daughter of Renalla and part of Carya family. Malenia fought Radahn, because Mogh's palace is located under Kaelid. So, when Mogh stole Miquella, Malenia followed his footsteps but she had now idea, that she should look for Miquella in the underworld. She thought that it was Radahn, who stole her brother.
@@chuvits217 I'm pretty sure Miquella got kidnapped during Malenia's fight with Radahn or after she went into a coma when she couldn't be present. Mogh took advantage of the fact that Malenia was not there to defend Miquella. Miquella wants to give Godwyn a "true" death according to Golden Epitaph. "A sword made to commemorate the death of Godwyn the Golden, first of the demigods to die. Infused with the humble prayer of a young boy; "O brother, lord brother, please die a true death." In Castle Sol where you find the Haligtree half, a Ghost says this: “Lord Miquella, forgive me. The sun has not been swallowed. Our prayers were lacking. Your comrade remains soulless…. I will never set my eyes upon it now… Your divine Haligtree.” Miquella needs a eclipse to make it happen and somehow Radahn being the Starscourge holding it back prevented an eclipse from happening. So Malenia was probably sent to fight Radahn.
@@trh3xa174 and yet, we know nothing about Miquella's connection to stars so it's no more then a theory. I hope in DLC we'll know more about Miquella's intentions
Fighting Malenia feels weird after killing Mohg. She doesnt seem like she lost her mind or anything so in reality I would have liked the option to just tell her where Miquella is.
@@TomS1205 True, but it’s still one of those times when you feel the lack of agency that you have in a game. You the player know information, but you don’t have the option to act on it.
@@DKdrop That's the absolute worst. BG3 does this in a major way at one point, which is made worse again by being based on D&D 5e, where there is no such restriction.
she is probably unaccessable for your words. she slumbers at the haligtree since her fight/bloom and the travel and without the needle the rot affects her more and more and well her sibling is gone, too. maybe?
It actually makes perfect sense that malenia would suicide bomb radahn and sacrifice everything IF it means to open the path to finding miquella. Because then even if she is dead, miquella has the chance to be rescued.
It's honestly the only explanation that makes sense to me for being a good enough reason to/for her to let go of that will to hold back the scarlet rot, all the time she has spent her entire life fighting it, trying/learning to control it and seal/lock it away within her, only to let it all out/release it all in the end. Who would she ever even consider doing something like that for, but her one and only beloved dear brother, Miquella.
@@Chunkyloopspersonally I think it's a survival thing - she was on the verge of death and so didn't have the strength to hold back the rot anymore, same as when we fight her, she actually falls and appears dead before the transformation, I think the rot simply won't let her die and will do whatever it can to sustain her.
If she fought radahn trying to find miquella, then why would she stop searching? You find her sleeping, and she seems confident that miquella will be back.
@@jakeharris2856 This is a good point, I personally think she was guarding Miquella in his cocoon, then ambition got the the better of her and she left for conquest (Maybe Miquella also suggested it or maybe Mohg made it seem like MIquella suggested it somehow) and then Mohg waited until she left the Haligtree and took the opportunity to nab Miquella while he was undefended, and then she gets brought back by Finlay and realised Miquella's gone.
No wonder she was Radahn's ᴀʀᴄʜ-nemesis: She not only ravaged his body with the Rot, she also crushed his sᴏʟᴇ. And then she turned Caelid into ʜᴇᴇʟ on earth, so now Radahn's kingdom is on its last ʟᴇɢ... I kinda wonder though: Would a rematch between them be like a gritty ʀᴇʙᴏᴏᴛ, or would it just be a ʀᴇᴛʀᴇᴀᴅ of their first fight?
I get that it’s a joke but the implication is they were worn away from being dragged along the ground. Additionally in the cinematic trailer for Elden Ring which shows the fight, Radahn still has both his feet.
I always thought it was a bit strange how, even after all that time of Radahn holding back Ranni’s fate, she never expresses any sort of contempt for her brother. You would think she’d be furious at the person who essentially halted her plans for the age of stars for so long but no, she just kinda tells you to deal with him in a very matter of fact way. She probably admires her brother’s courage to some extent, and is glad that he will still be able to die a good death in battle, as she knew he’d have wanted
Ranni never even mentions Radahn in-game. She falls asleep and you and Blaidd find out you have to kill Radahn in order to get to Nokron. She doesn't even mention any of her family members in-game except Rennala.
She was the most patient of all the demigods. She played the long game and is arguably the only one that "wins" in the end (if you pick her ending anyway). So assuming she even knew Radahn was the one keeping her fate in stasis, to show anger towards him might have lead people to question why, which would've uncovered her whole plot. She's arguably the best mastermind in all of the lore because of how strategic she was. She knew what moves to make and when to make them, but just as importantly, she knew when *not* to make a move, instead opting to wait in the shadows.
I think why the stars don't hit Sellia is because Jerren was well aware that Radahn was holding back the stars, and that's why he says when you try to talk to him before the festival begins "Be patient, when the stars align, the festival will be held", so I think he was waiting for a special moment where the damage done won't be too hard, and that's why this falling star hits South-East of limgrave, where there isn't much life, instead of Sellia town.
That's right for the most part, but Jerren wasn't waiting to minimize damage but to actively help Ranni. Jerren was an extremely loyal friend to Radahn, and Radahn helped Ranni with her plans. It was most likely Radahn who throwed Ranni's two fingers into the underground of Manus Celes cathedral with his gravity magic. Jerren repeatedly started the festival whenever the stars aligned so that they would continue Ranni's fate the moment they were unlocked.
@@meimeng04Most say Radahn held them BACK, not specifically in place, per say So he could've been acting like a barrier or pushing force so they can't come, but still go elsewhere or move around
I do believe that Torrent's former master was Miquella, and he named him after Malenia's mentor, since a torrent is a stream of flowing water. The DLC art (if we assume it's Miquella the one that's depicted) kinda backs this up. Also, it would also make sense because Ranni, on her first appearance, mentions something about Torrent's former master, and gives you the Lone Wolf Ashes. It's always been curious to me that there were three wolves, but it makes sense when you remember that one of Miquella statues depicted him surrounded by three wolves. I guess the Lone Wolf Ashes were Miquella's wolves, who were separated from him somehow. EDIT: I also forgot to mention that the Spectral Steed description says as it follows: "A delicate goldwork ring. Can be used as a finger whistle." It doesn't specify that it was unalloyed gold, but Miquella has been widely associated that particular metal.
Ranni is the Carian princess, and in the Carian manor there are wolves prowling around the area past the hands. Also, Blaidd is her shadow and a wolf-man and lastly she has some wolves before her Rise. Ranni is just wolf-associated
God the scene where you setup melania training side by side the blind swordsman using similar movements was SO cool. These videos bring a whole new life to elden ring. I love this channel so much man you're a master artist
I like how the essence of “Malenia vs. Radahn” goes all the way back to the days of Dark Souls 1. It’s literally just “Dex Enjoyers vs. Strength Enjoyers” personified
@@tampabaylightning2264 not really, since Malenia used that as a last resort and went unconscious after blooming the first time. Her unconscious body had to be dragged away from the battlefield by her knights.
@@GardenK11 yes and radahn went looney and started eating his own knights. bravo to his astounding and daring victory over a blind swordswoman half his size
In regards to Radahn saving Sellia from a 'falling star', originally The fight with Astel was going to take place in Radahn's arena, likely just after beating him. It wasn't just some meteor he was trying to stop, it was a likely that Astel himself was going to fall and wreak havoc across Caelid in the original encounter.
With regards to what you said about Radahn not being beholden to the Golden Order, I think that his "fanboying" of Radagon and Godfrey was an admiration of their strength and leadership, not really a dedication to their ideals and motivations. He wished to be the warriors and the righteous men that they both were, even if he didn't share their beliefs of what it meant to be righteous.
Loved the use of in-game “re-enactments” for the various battles & interactions mentioned thru out the video! I especially loved seeing Malenia practicing her swordplay alongside her mentor the Blue Swordsman! 😊
The Scarlet bloom being nurtured by betrayal has me hooked, especially when you consider this fact; the portals to the Haligtree and Moghwynn Dynasty are LITERALLY right across the river from each other. So this would probably explain how Mogh was able to get so close to Miquella, but even more so when you consider that one spirit that knew who took Miquella. So another theory I suggest is that when Miquella comes back, it will be in the form of great betrayal of his sister, the ideals he held as the Unalloyed, all for the sake of growing up. And it's because of this, seeing how much she put herself into Miquella's dream, is what's gonna cause her to bloom into the True Goddess Of Rot.
@@Sivanot Whether it's her second or third bloom is debatable and not for certain one way or another, just because famous internet guy Vaati says so does not mean it's true
@@Koushakur it has nothing to do with "because vaati said so" it has to do with vaati providing evidence of only two blooms, Malenia being referred to as Goddess of Rot long before our fight, and there being no evidence of another bloom, besides the one outside of her arena, which is highly unlikely to be hers.
The stories of Malenia and Miquella, the Haligtree, and the tragedies that interconnect them are easily my favorite pieces of lore across all FromSoftware games. Just an astoundingly beautiful, poetic, and melancholic tale of two siblings boldly standing up to the powers that be in an ill-fated world. Hearing about the infamously difficult Malenia from people online as I was progressing through my blind playthrough, making my way through the consecrated snowfield, the albinauric village, and finally finding myself standing atop the Haligtree was an incredible journey. I was ecstatic to see what awaited me as I worked my way down. Seeing Elphael for the first time in the distance, then shortly finding myself there, and hearing that powerful ambient music made me realize this was the true peak of the game, as far as I was concerned. This memory is my favorite of any game in the past several years. Elphael's music says to me: "This is a place of refuge. It's dying. But it's still here."
I aggree. I want so much for her and Miquella to still be alive, and that their story continue past what we see in the game. They definitely are my favorite characters of Elden Ring, perhaps all of From Software, and I would be completely devastated if their story ended like this.
I hope we rip Miquella to shreds in the DLC to rid the world of the rotten filth they spread. Well, 95% of that was Malenia's fault. She betrayed everything Miquella stood for to try and preserve her artificial ''undefeated'' status, but still. That rotten behavior is in the family. Best rip it out by the root.
Random thing, but is Malenia's main technique, her blind practiced rends, the Waterfowl Dance, named such because of the whole "Flowing water is the antithesis of rot"? If so...
it is a beautiful part of the game, one the most amazing places not utilized enough in elden ring. but at least it exists. very Tolkien. however cannot say the same about the consecrated snowfield, mountaintops of the giants as it was rushed, empty, and probably the worst part of the game. those locations, they seem to have been made at very different times. i'd say the haligtree was made first. or at least it had more time to be created. it really shows. i wished the game wasn't rushed and had another year in the oven.
I find it hilarious that Vaati mentioned that he wouldn't be against fighting Malenia again provided she has the lower body of a scorption or something... and we got Romina in the DLC xD not the same BUT CLOSE ENOUGH!
Here’s how I think this part of the story fits together: Miquella has made two important endeavours in Elden Ring. The first is his creation of the Haligtree and unalloyed gold, and the second is the attempted resurrection of Godwyn the Golden. Sometime around the shattering, Miquella is slumbering inside a cocoon in the roots of the Haligtree, (where you fight Malenia,) just like one of those we see scattered everywhere around Elphael. (He can still be found in this cocoon in the present at Mohgwyn Palace, but I’ll get to that later.) Meanwhile, Malenia is fighting Radahn in Caelid. Not for power, not for a Great Rune, and not for competition, but to unlock the motion of the stars for Miquella. The reason Miquella would want the motion of the stars unlocked is that the ritual to resurrect Godwyn required a solar eclipse. In fact, the eclipsed sun is directly referred to as “the protective star of soulless demigods” in the Eclipse Crest Greatshield’s item description, and we know that the expected eclipse never came because of dialogue with a spirit in Castle Sol. From this, I think it is reasonable to assume that Malenia was fighting Radahn on Miquella’s behalf to unlock the motion of the stars to resurrect Godwyn. While Malenia is fighting Radahn, Miquella is left vulnerable at the roots of the Haligtree, at which point Mohg kidnaps him to be his consort in the Mohgwyn dynasty. What do you think?
I think you are correct. Makes perfect sense. Maybe Malenia tried to convince Radhan to free the star, or maybe just the moon? And the general, being the warrior that he is, wished to fight the so called blade of Miquella in order to agree or not the Malenia's request.
Never put together that Miquella would need the stars moving again, that finally explains why Malenia went after Radahn instead of finishing off Godrick for his rune. She never needed the runes, she needed Radahn specifically gone.
Pretty much how I view the event playing out, especially behind Malenia’s motive. Malenia is shown to be prideful in her combat prowess. But we also know, from item descriptions, that she loved her brother dearly. If there is one thing that Malenia would sacrifice her pride for, it would be for her brother.
I feel like a connection could be made between the swordsman's blindness and Malenia's. Just as the tarnished are summoned to repair the golden order but can choose to turn away and serve Ranni (or madness, death, etc), perhaps the swordsman was chosen by the outer god of rot, and his blindness is a result of him rotting just as Malenia. The rot seems to need a champion to spread it as Malenia does to Caelid, and likely the Halightree, so perhaps that was the original mission of the swordsman. But somewhere along his journey, the spirit convinced him to betray rot, and rather than bringing rot to the world, he turned against it.
Yeah this is my interpretation as well, that the swordsman's battle with the rot was a personal inner battle to resist it, and ultimately he sealed it within himself. Malenia did too, but she let it out when she battled Radahn and Millicent says she never fully recovered her "dignity" and couldn't seal it properly again.
Damn that's actually really good, I never thought of it that way. That makes a great deal of sense however, I was had a bit of suspension of disbelief loss with the tale originally due to the blind swordsman never really being shown as special other than skill and yet taking down a literal outer god. It being an inner conflict, that he was capable of overcoming thanks to the siofra river, learning the ways of flowing water, the opposite of stagnation makes so much more sense. Especially considering his blade is actually a rather normal blade, which was always something I found as off. However if he just had it shaped in the form of what helped him, inspired him to defeat the rot it all makes sense on why it was completely ordinary. That wasn't the blade that he defeated it with. It would also makes sense on why he decided to help Malenia by teaching her his ways rather than take her out, as he likely saw his own suffering in her and if he could make it why not her? Instead of just a hunch like the surface story would seem.
Interesting theory/interpretation of the facts. Seeing as we talk to doll Rahni in Sofri river - Sofri is a welsh (?) word for fairy, the river has connections to leading champions down alternative routes for different ages.
I like to imagine that the great scorpion was closer to an emissary of an outer god rather than an actual outer god, kinda like the Elden Beast or the Twinbird. It would line up with the trend of the emissaries being large beasts/animals that wield the power of the outer god that sent them.
I feel like she did fight Radahn for Miquella in one way or another, because also, if finding Miquella was her most important goal, why else would she fight so desperately to win? It's also why I feel like her line, "I have never known defeat," is being said ironically, in a way. Winning all of her battles is a hollow thing to boast about since she ultimately gained nothing from her efforts, and ends up alone and unable to search for Miquella anymore, and I feel like she'd be painfully aware of this. She's saying it just as if it's a fact that she unfortunately has to remind you about.
14:50 this is beautiful The flow of the blind swordsman’s strikes is so similar to that of water, with the way his hand stops almost like a wave And while Malenia’s attacks are similar, they’re somewhat static, I’m aware this is due to the game’s animations, that the curved swords are meant to have those flowing animations with little static movements while the katanas have static movements But here it really looks like a master whose movements flow like water, and a student, who, while she can certainly understand and imitate what her master teaches her, still has a long way to go, before she can move with the elegance of the blind swordsman Also I like to believe that when Godrick insulted Malenia, she took less offence from the insult thrown at her, and more from the insults toward Miquella and the Haligtree For one thing, the Haligtree, while likely not intended to be the Erdtree’s rival, was still grown with the intention of actions that went against the Erdtree’s grace, providing a sanctuary for those spurned by the grace of gold, a home to Misbegotten and Albinaurics, and while there are none in the Haligtree, I have no doubt that Omens would likely be welcomed there as well, to insult a sanctuary for those less fortunate by invalidating its claims and what it stands for, would justifiably anger Malenia And then there was the insult towards Miquella, Miquella was a genius, a straight up prodigy in every sense of the word, even created an incantation in the name of his father Radagon. Yet Godrick had the nerve to insult Miquella for a curse he never asked for, something completely out of his control You’re right, it is quite strange that Malenia didn’t outright kill Godrick
Sparing Godrick may have been an artifact of the writers creating past conflict between characters of the world. Godrick is an easy choice if Malenia’s march to Radahn was a previous decision in the foundational lore
I like to think she spared him to humiliate him even further. If you look at Godrick's body after killing him, he is essentially a torso with a head on it and nothing more, just like Malenia because of the Rot. So I believe Malenia deliberately spared him but at the same time cut off all his limbs to deliver the ultimate humiliation (which would also explain why Godrick grafted a bloody Troll torso on him).
She spared him because she has value in herself and her brother. She does not see Godrick as a threat, nor is she even on track towards stormveil. She need not Great Runes, but to murder Radahn. To resume Miquella’s eclipse. That’s the goal, not godrick
It could be because miquella did not wish to kill family they did not have to. Killing Radahn would be crucial to his plan to continue his fate. Or possibly they did so to appease morgott. He didn't seem to want the family to fight amongst themselves so the price of heading through leyndell and liurnia peacefully they had to agree not to slay any demigod. It's why I think Radahn was in a berserker state from his elden rune. Malenia tried to appeal to him to release the stars but he was unbalanced by his rune and tempers flared to the point he attacked her and war broke out
I like to think that the shooting star meant for Sellia hitting Limgrave instead is because, while Radahn held the stars in place, the world continued to turn (as there is still day and night). Although the shot missed its intended mark, it still enabled access to the both Eternal Cities. Despite his best efforts, Radahn could not avert destiny.
Radahn standing there thinking "good fight sis, 10/10 would face you in honourable combat again" and she goes "and I have never known defeat" before giving him cancer
I remember the first time through the game, I thought Millicent WAS Malenia, having lost her memory and her prosthesis in the battle with Radahn. And that through the work we were doing, we were restoring her, and ultimately setting up the final battle with her. Which would have been a really cool thing for the series. Really establish a personal connection with one of the bosses, and make it more tragic when we have to fight her.
Damn it dude I already adore both of these women and now I love them even more now cause of this concept. Gonna screenshot this for and save it as an idea. Thank you 🙏🏿.
Being the "finest bud", milicent could be to malenia what margit was to morgott: an initially lesser iteration with a similar potential. Maybe, the third blossom of "betrayal" will happen if we find the third bud while the unalloyed gold needle is still under our possesion.
@@Ghost_gc I think Margit and Morgott are the same guy however, since Margit was the name he took when he went out on patrol missions (due to his status as an omen)
@Ultimateeick kinda. Margit is one of Morgotts illusions, just like the illusion of godfrey and his brother in the sewers. Watch the beginning margit cutscene carefully and you will see the same golden shimmer surrounding all the other illusion bosses.
i love the idea of her bloom at your encounter with her only being the second one, it brings me hope of a reunion between the twins! then again, knowing these games, you'd probably just end up with your heart broken at some shakespearean tragedy
@@aaayjay yeah I know where you are coming from bro I got the same impression. But now that I think about it more the same applies for most FromSoft's bosses. Spoiler: When the protagonist encounters Gwin, Gherman and even Ishin (Shura path), lorewise they are not fighting them in their prime or at their full capability and that leads one to believe just how formidable and powerful these guys once were or could be in case of Malenia (if the last theory in the video applies)
The waterfowl dance is such a touchy thing for everyone, and after watching this, I can't help but smile every time I see her pop it off, knowing what it means for her. Fucking beautiful.
it took me about 35-40 attempts to beat her on a blood build. definitely the hardest boss to face. godfrey & radagon were top as well. I never faulted her for her style or the boss difficulty and unironically, I would NEVER want fromsoft or miyasaki to change that. keep the difficulty moved up to where it's at. the lore & story behind everything is truly remarkable & almost makes you not want to progress because you know their pain. I haven't seen a game link so many worlds together in 1 environment in my lifetime. insane.
I think the reason the star hits Limgrave and not Sellia is because, at that point in time, the fate of the world(or Radhan’s own fate maybe) was that Sellia would get hit, but since Radahn stopped that from happening and some time has passed (+Sellia is already destroyed in the present) the star is now following Ranni’s fate instead
its insinuated by the game that the lands between is shifting and changing, quelaag has an amazing ramble vid on it but maybe thats why. like its one great big finger unfurling and the meteor ended up alittle further west
Stars being locked in place is like a stagnant river, and this could mean that Radahn unknowingly created a world where Scarlett Rot could thrive. The very fact of stagnation could have been a strong enough reason for Malenia to fight Radahn, as she tried hard to keep the Rot at bay.
It is interesting how much Malenia is loved by the fan base. Just as much as Radahn is, by a different section. Their entwined story is one of tragedy, their battle a Pyrrhic victory that leaves the Shattering war undecided.
@@JABRIEL251 really? I love both but general radhan is my absolute favorite fromsoft boss ever actually. But I don't hate any fans that like her more not sure why people would be like that shits stupid af to me
@@JABRIEL251 In a way, I find it fitting. People see what each side stands for and, depending on their personal values, get sucked into the battle. Radahn, the alpha beast who conquered the agents of fate itself; Malenia, cursed from birth to be the pawn on someone else's chess board. In a weird way, both bosses are defined by their relation to fate: those who struggle and surmount it, and those who are inevitably subsumed by it. Strangely poetic, I think.
@@jancul8334he left her to die in haligtree proceeding with his plan without giving a damn About what could happen to her until the tarnished killed her.
That's speculation. Malenia knew Miquella would return once he became a god. Miquella became a god just before we encounter him. He was going to return to The Lands Between after.
So glad Vaati made a point to talk about how we don't really know why Radahn and Malenia fought, we just have the backdrop of the Shattering. This was the very question that I needed an answer to and its what pulled me into the game. If the coming DLC is gonna go deep into all the Miquella-shaped plot holes, I'd bet its finally gonna give us an explanation for that showdown.
There have been theories on why they fought. I heard this one theory that Miquella knew Radan kept the stars still and he needed him killed in order for them to move so an eclipse would occur and potentially revive Godwyn from Castle Sol. So he sends Malenia and a army to try and kill him.
@@pitchthewoo Somewhere else in another video, don’t remember the name of it unfortunately. Edit: He does mention this theory in the video, but I first heard it somewhere else.
If your theory of Malenia not being dead holds true, I am looking forward to the DLC. Its so heartbreaking to see what happened to Miquella along with Malenia, I wanna see the possibility of them reuniting.
@@gabrielghabsheh2412 I swear we players are just a bunch of masochists and simps. I'd like to be thrashed again by Malenia. Hell, her and Miquella would be even more thrilling. I wonder how many times I'll die before defeating the cursed siblings🤣
37:41 It seems most likely to me that O'Neil served Malenia, due to the Haligtree insignia on his armour. O'Neil's armour is also very closely related to Commander Niall's armour, and it is known that Niall served Miquella, who made his prosthesis for him. Radahn also didn't 'flee', he slaughtered both friend and foe until letting his rune burn himself in a last attempt to stave off Rot. Moreso, the Redmane Knights only seem to remember Aeonia with shame (their armour set). Finally, O'Neil stands in a swamp of rot instead of trying to ward it away with fire. Methinks he was a soldier who served Malenia but was not close to her like the Cleanrot Knights were, or he would not 'remember the battle with pride'.
O'Neil does not attack the Cleanrots around him(vice versa), but attacks directly to Redmanes when he sees them. I noticed this when teleporting mobs and bosses to each other. Besides, Vaati says he's a rot hater but it seems he never fought with O'Neil, 50% of his attacks infect Scarlet Rot.
@@rize8700 Yep. It seems he's another Marais-type who admired Malenia's godhood, as typified by the ghost praying near the Aeonian swamp. He doesn't seem to know of Malenia's pain and her struggle against the Rot. Miquella- who looks very much like he manipulated and used a lot of people- probably used O'Neil in this way as well. A powerful and commanding soldier, but not privy to their inner circle like the Cleanrot Knights seem to be.
I always got the impression from O'Neil is that he would rather stay on the battlefield along with some of the Cleanrot knights and hold onto Malenia's broken needle as reverence for her. He could have returned back to Castle Sol, but chose not to. He's this die hard veteran who would die on the battlefield.
he also uses rot attacks which imo kinda confirms he's fought for Malenia, one could argue he was getting corrupted by rot or it's just because of the environement but idk
I listened to this video at least 3 times while working on my Malenia cosplay. Just as she's too stubborn to be defeated and heals herself, your videos gave me the will to continue working on this ❤ Thank you, and I hope there's more videos, eventually, that I can listen to while fixing the cape.
Absolutely love these videos. I often have to pause and double check stuff, there's so many things I missed in my playthrough. The illustrations on the Heirlooms really took me by surprise here, I didn't look at them too closely, lots of cool stuff. Also, you can only use Miquella's Needle in the storm beyond time? (Dragonlord Placidusax’s arena) That's so rad.
For a long time I wondered why Malenia and Radan fought. Maybe a possible motive was that Radan's power to hold the stars in place also made an eclipse impossible. We know that miquella, needed an eclipse to happen, and without the movement of the moon(which is a celestial body but no star) and the sun(which is a star) an eclipse can't be happening. Maybe even the dlc takes place in the lands between after the long awaited eclipse finally happened.
Or she was chasing her brother who had been kidnapped and hidden directly beneath Radahn’s hometown, but the glory-hungry war-monger wouldn’t let her pass without a challenge.
@@dodiswatchbobobo Oh... I don’t know, maybe because one of miquella’s main goals were to summon an eclipse to rest Godwyn’s soul to eternal death but ungabunga merchant radahn locked the stars in his own battles, directly preventing ranni’s fate, but also haulting Miquella’s eclipse. It’s very, VERY clear that Malenia’s soul existence is to primarily serve Miquella in everything Malenia does. Her marching to Radahn was likely Miquella’s own choice TL:DR - read the original comment to this thread lol (Theory: this is where the DLC picks up. Following this storyline)
I noticed you said that the fight between Malenia and Radahn ended when she released the scarlet aoniea, however a ghost near the scarlet aoenia says "Let me see it, if only one last time. Your splendid blade, dancing amongst the scarlet rot." So they probably kept fighting for a while after that.
my head cannon is that they fought to a stalemate in her equivalent of her phase two. From what it is described as in the lore, Radahn beats her normally in combat, before she blooms, and its implied the two of them continue fighting before both retreat and end the fight in a draw.
@@Frankieboy1123 nah she wasn't at her prime in phase 2. Which means Radahn is in fact weaker than the Malenia the tarnished fights. Ofc this doesn't mean Radahn is weak considering that he basically won the first round against malenia.
@@camarobro1897when malenia bloom she doesn't get her wings unless is her 3rd time blooming (when she fought radahn she still had her armor after that bloom. Only with us she gets the wings (meaning her 3rd bloom) and becomes her most powerful self (se can't turn back to normal anymore)
I think the star hit limgrave instead because while he stopped the movement of the stars, he didn't stop the movements of the earth. Even the slightest adjustment can massively change accuracy.
Its incredible that you can make an hour long video feel so short, I always feel like it's just getting started when the video comes to am end. I don't know how you do it but being able to captivate the audience and hold their attention the way you do is super impressive.
I am just so happy to realize that it may not have been an end of Malenia. The third bloom yet to happen is such a wonderful discovery, specially considering that it aligns well with Oracles performing live at Haligtree. And the potential betrayal by Miquella may be a big twist as well. Miquella-Malenia lore is just absolutely heart shattering and this will just make it pure melanchy.
I really hope its not the end of Milicent, I would be happy if we get more to her story in the DLC as a boss fight maybe with some alternate dialogue depending on if you did or didn't betray her. Like Sif in DKS 1 that would react to if you defeated Manus before or not
No, no, no. I don't know why everybody eats up this insipid theory so easily. What anyone with a sense of observation would "discover" is that the second bloom has already happened before the fight. It's in the room to the left of the grace before you fight her. Also it's incredibly hard to miss for anyone paying an ounce of attention
@@joshuahendricks9558 did you watch the video? We can't say for certain if that is Malenia's Bloom, since you find the Traveller's clothes right next to it. The exact same clothes that Millicent and her sisters wear. Wanna know another funny thing? Once Millicent dies, guess what shows up at her place of death. That's right! It's a blooming flower! Just like the one in that room and just like the one that shows up after you defeat Malenia. What a coincidence! There's a lot of stuff that may seem "obvious" upon first playing the game, but have a lot of hidden details attached to them that completely changes what we know about said thing. So, again, we can't say for certain if that was Malenia's bloom, but we also can't say for certain that it isn't. all we can do is wait and speculate until fromsoft decides to answer our questions.
I was surprised you didn't mention Gowry turning into a Pest when you kill him early, and his dialogue in that situation. I suppose that's reserved for the Millicent video. Him re-possessing other Pests every time you kill him is akin to how agents of another Outer God can possess bodies to further their God's will. I am of course referring to agents of the God of the Frenzied Flame, Shabriri and Hyetta. Gowry is probably an agent of the God of Rot, and not just some random fanboy.
So coming back to this now with shadow of the erdtree and having to beat radahn and free the stars makes it pretty clear that malenia was trying to get back to miquella and the stars had to have fallen for her to access the new dlc area
Oh damn, that actually makes so much sense! There are the connections between Miquella and Godwyn, and then all 3 of them including Malenia because of the statues at the haligtree… so Miquella and Malenia, who have an established bond with Godwyn, become aware that an eclipse could help or restore him in some way, but said eclipse is being unpurposefully prevented by Radahn. Malenia leaves to fight, and Mohg mohg’s Miquella while she’s gone. That honestly had me stumped the entire time ER has been out but that really seems like solid rationale for the conflict
Your storytime videos are great. Your shorts are great. But these feature length lore breakdowns, Miquella and Malenia especially, are masterworks. So much detail. SO MANY overlapping webs of lore, imagery, themes. You’ve never stopped improving, Vaati, keep up the excellence!
I just realized that the "time-bending powers" needed to perfect the needle could have been provided by Godwyn. He was the the demigod closest to the dragons and clearly practiced their powers as shown by the Golden Lightning. He could have one day ascended to Placidusax's heights and helped cure his sister, but of course, that isn't exactly possible anymore is it?
That may be why he wanted his brother to "die a true death." Because we know that when you die, you come back thanks to the erdtree. Maybe he didnt actually care about Godwyn, he just wanted his help saving Melania. :O
I feel like Melenia traveled to kill Radahn to get the stars moving again, but the main benefit of this may have been that her fate being in "stagnation" further strengthened the rot and so she may have been trying to cause her fate to flow once again.
Lol. Mentioning Artorias in the same light as Sekiro or Malenia is just wrong. Artorias isnt even fit to shine Juno Hoslow’s boots, let alone Sekiro or Malenia.
@@ackvendor absolute wild take, not only was Artorias the only one willing to go into Oolacile to defeat the Abyss, but he protected his dog JUST in case, and it worked. The truest chad. Not because of knighthood, honor or loyalty. But because of his love AND courage.
I feel that Millicent is not a mere parallel to Malenia but an actual fragment. As you pointed out in the Haligtree she states she is there to return a sense of dignity to Malenia that was once her own. Furthermore when the fight with Malenia begins she states that she dreamt for so long and her flesh was dull gold and her blood rotted. I don't think Malenia has golden skin but Millicent most certainly does.
Millicent states she is of Malenia’s blood, but doesn’t know the exact relation. She is literally a part of Malenia that was separated from her after the first Scarlet Aeonia.
Cut dialogue script suggests the original quest line may have had malenia survive your boss fight and later become freinds. It definitely seems this was the original design as the existing battle has zero reason to occur and there is no reason to fight her as it is.
My favorite thing about Malenia's version of the rot god is almost completely different. The change from scorpion god to butterflies is such an interesting change from the original Rot God. From scorpions, to butterflies. It's a fascinating change.
@@lsdxiii DW about him he just doesn’t like Malenia. I also love how the rot god changed representation from scorpions to butterflies, makes me wonder if it can only manifest itself in the form of arthropods.
There's also a very interesting contrast between the Lake of Rot and Aeonia swamp. The Lake of Rot, for the lack of better terms, is a sea of desolate death. Anything that lives there lives in spite of the rot, not because of it. It's a stagnant, fetid wasteland that's the equivalent of a mass of toilet water that's festering so badly that not even its inhabitants seem to want to be there. In contrast, the Aeonian wildlife has mutated due to the rot and thrive because of it, creating an entire ecosystem filled with life. Extremely hostile life, but still life. The scorpion is a creature associated with poison and death while the butterfly is associated with life and rebirth. Even Gowry refers to Malenia with imagery pertaining to blooming flowers, which is quite the antithesis from the stagnant rot that the Rot God is associated with. It seems that Malenia's extreme resistance against the Rot God has her develop her own type of rot that defies what the Rot God is supposed to be about as one final middle finger to her fate. If she's going to rot, it's going to be a bloom into new life rather than a dead lake of nothingness.
@@joshuakim5240 Now that you mention that, it really puts scarlet aeonia’s description under a new light. It mentions aeonia specifically being Malenia’s “tehnique”. Oh and the fact that there’s no aeonias or any flowers in lake of rot kinda drives that point home (however there are aeonia butterflies).
The shot of the Gargoyle at 46:00 was so epic, they never seemed imposing to me, they dont seem to be to posess much mass by the way they buzz around, and flail around, they just seemed big for the sake of making them more epic, more gargantuan. But portraying them as a massive, murky figure, slowly, menacingly approaching paints him as a truely monstous foe, he finally looks like he could be a boss instead of a mini-boss.
malenia recovering health because her movements have the inate properties of flowing water and linking that to the blue dancer charm is just *chefs kiss* Amazing
What's also interesting is the fact that you actually still can interact with Malenia's bloom after you fought her in Milicent's questline. You return the Unalloyed Golden Needle to Malenia, but because it was worn by Milicent it's properties have changed because the item description changes to: "Removed by Millicent from her flesh. Bears no trace of befouled blood, but is faintly moist with dew. "There is something I must return to Malenia. The dignity, the sense of self, that allowed her to resist the call of the scarlet rot." It seems to imply Malenia is still there somehow as you return the needle, now moist with dew (which also has interesting lore implications), to return her sense of dignity back to her. In return you receive Miquella's needle but funnily enough also a Somber Ancient Dragon Smithing Stone which description has an interesting tidbit: "The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time. This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god." Almost like a hint telling the Tarnished where you need to go to use Miquella's needle and fend of the influence of outer gods.
This is why I love the character. Throughout the game, you hear a lot about her and most of it not good. She's blamed, at least impart, for what happened at Shaded Castle. She kicks Godrick around. Then marches on Caelid and destroys it. But then when you meet her, she's actually kind of nice. Sure, she's not happy you broke into her home and interrupted what is possibly a dream she maybe sharing with Miquella or one he's given her to comfort her while she waits and recovers. She doesn't call you "foul Tarnished", gloat, throw things at you, or let her mutant babies bite your ankles. She just chats it up with you, gives you a swordsman's salute, and introduces herself. She acknowledges you as worthy of being an Elden Lord if you defeat her. And she shows you gratitude for returning her pride.
@@TheRisky9 believe me there is no much people blame her in lands between even in Caelid, the people more respect her then disrespect her. What made u feel that is becoz Chatdanh fan such a annoying exist…
It's wonderful how the Shattering was such a violent and vulerable time with so many great powers at play, yet in the end all balanced out and none managed to take control.
I could have sworn I read somewhere that Miquella was taken as Malenia went to go and fight with Radahn, and that until we go and find her, she had been in a deep slumber. I feel like this also kind of fits with what she says when you first encounter her, where she says that she has been sleeping and dreaming of battles, while she awaits the return of Miquella.
I think it was some playstation desc of elden ring saying how we would fight WITH radahn and malenia instead of AGAINST them. theres even some cut dialogue that malenia was actually close with us in some way. Partner, lover, battle sister idk some close connection though.
Every new video makes me want to go back and watch an older one for clarity. The lore of this game is rich and dense, and you're doing a phenomenal job interpreting it for us! Really grateful
I’ve always found it interesting how a lot of characters have a counterpart tied to them. Melina and Ranni, Morgott and Mohg, Malenia and Miquella etc… The concept of “twins” in this game I feel is a huge underlying part of the story and quest lines with NPCs. Because when I came across Millicent in Caelid I thought it was Malenia (knowing already about malekith/gurranq). They look extremely similar especially with hair color and dress along with missing a limb which you end up giving to her. Along with finding her with rot already inside her. Drawing a similarity to gurranq, by giving him death root it’s acting like you are restoring him. Just like Millicent, the needle and her prosthetic. I don’t understand what it all means. But everything is done with an intent at fromsoft. So if this DLC is truly about miquella I’m curious how they will paint his picture.
I'm not going to act like an expert, but "divine twins" seem to be a common thing in real world mythologies. I believe in Europe, for instance, "the divine horse twins" were a common reoccurring theme stretching off into the uncertainty of prehistory, presumably from the eurasian step. Hengest and horsa being a relatively late representation of that. I need to look more into that subject myself
There's also: Marika and Radagon Godfrey and Hoarah Loux Darian and Devin (D twin brothers) Diallos Hoslow and Juno Hoslow Indeed, Duality is a very prominent theme in Elden Ring.
I really wish we could actually befriend and help Malenia. Don't get me wrong, great boss and storyline there. But also, I love her character and feel for her, she fights the rot so much
@@fr0sty790Why is Radahn allowed to use his gravity magic, but Malenia is not allowed to use her Scarlet Rot? Malenia also didn't have several of her limbs and is mostly blind. The fact that she fought him to a standstill shows how skilled she was.
@juanlaise1059 it’s bc radahn held back with his gravity magic since if he really wanted to, he could’ve easily have just used his magic to send a star or meteor to kill malenia, crush her into an infinitely small point like with a black hole, or just simply use it to send her flying off to space never to return. Instead he tried to fight fair using no bullshit while malenia got desperate
@@mrvespuccia.k.ameganite1747 He cannot send stars nor meteors. The strongest ability we know he has is him going to the atmosphere and coming back as a meteor himself(and since we don't see how their fight went out, aside from a small part in the trailer) he couls have used it. He cannot crush the Tarnished either with his gravity magic, so why would it work on Malenia, who is far stromger than the Tarnished that fights Radahn at the time? It was stated both were equal and that Malenia used her Scarlet Rot to break the draw. Saying Radahn would have easily killed Malenia is completely against everything we are told. Nowhere is it hinted that he held back against Malenia or us.
@juanlaise1059 I just hate that she calls herself undefeated. She suicide bombed, gave up her everything, got knocked out, condemned Caelid to rot and had to be dragged back while the Cleanrots stayed behind to cover the retreat. All because Radanh allowed her to get up after she got knocked to the ground and her prothesis came loose. If he had pressed his attack, that'd have been it.
You can see the Haligtree from the cliff to the left of the Shaded Castle. Also, Miquella's Cocoon is exactly underneath the site of Malenia's first bloom
I think as far as the Great Scorpion is concerned, I see it as the Outer God of Rot’s Beast, in a similar way that the Elden Beast is the manifestation of the Elden Ring and the Greater Will. We know the Outer God of Death also has a similar Beast as described in the Twinbird Kite Shield, being the Twinbird itself, mother to all the deathbirds we fight in the lands between. I’m not sure if that means the Beast is the manifestation of the Outer God directly or just the manifestation of their will upon the laws of nature in the lands between, or maybe those are both the same thing honestly
Continuing this theory, would that make the Regal Ancestor Spirit the Beast/manifestation of the old Great Tree? The one the crucible knights were based off?
In which case, much as the player does battle with the Elden Beast, the Blind Swordsman likely fought against this Great Scorpion to break the Outer God of Rot's hold over the Land's Between, and then (as stated above by @Jstar338) was aided by the spirit of the Siofra River to seal the essence of the Outer God in the Lake of Rot.
I want to think what she said to radahn was something along the lines of "forgive me brother" because she probably knew what would happen or at least a degree of it because I very much like stories of these two just chilling before the shattering
I think your theory that Miquella sent Malenia to resume the movement of the stars makes the most sense. It got me thinking. I'm not sure if the timing fits, but with Malenia away, that would have been the perfect opportunity for Mohg to steal Miquella, I just don't know if the lore clearly states when he did this. If the timing does fit though, then from Malenia's perspective, she left the Haligtree to fulfill her brother's wishes only to be returned not only in failure, but also having rejected her brothers kindness and efforts by willfully succumbing to the rot that Miquella had worked so hard to stave off. Even breaking the needle he gave her in the process. So when she returns with this shame and sees that her brother is gone, she may have thought that she betrayed Miquella and that he had left as a result of that perceived betrayal. Though this would depend on whether Mohg's intrusion was covert or not (I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was covert, but I can't be sure). So, having just lost everything she valued and believing it was all her own fault, Malenia lamented and could only wait. Either for her brother to return, or for a chance to redeem herself. This would also help explain why she didn't search for him. She thought she had failed him and didn't believe herself worthy to seek him out, only to wait and protect what he had left behind. Huh, I originally just wanted to comment saying I liked your theory, but my flow of thought just kept going. Oh well, I love the videos as they really get me thinking and theorizing which I find fun (as clearly shown by my ramblings above). Looking forward to the next one!
I got the impression that when Malenia wakes up to fight you, she had been sleeping since she fought Radahn, so your theory would answer how Mohg managed to take him from the heavily guarded haligtree without waking her up.
Just wanted to point out a little mistake: Radahn did already have his Great Rune during his fight with Morgott. The battles of the Shattering were after the demigods obtained their runes, so if Radahn grew in size after his fight with Morgott, it wasn't for that reason
Or he was midway through the sizes? Vaati says that the portrait of Radahn is a normal sized person but it’s pretty hard to tell without anything for reference in the painting
I think making himself lighter with gravity magic made him grow bigger as he would be less affected by the planet's gravity. Kinda like how the astronauts staying in the international space station get taller.. only this is the over the top fantasy version of it.
I know this video is out dated but it real helps you figure out the lore of the dlc and how it connects. Like the march to cailed he didn’t know why she did it but now that the dlc happened it’s very clear why .
The scarlet blooms being nurtured by betrayal suggesting a possible betrayal by Miquella... goddamnit. That's too good. It hurts SO BAD but I think that lines up with the themes way too well and has an incredibly decent chance of happening in the DLC. Or suggested it would have if we learn Miquella's intentions turned, or were always, deceitful.
Her first bloom against Radahn had nothing to do with betrayal. It was a bog standard fight. We also don't betray her when we fight her. Also a bog standard fight. There's far too much speculation in these comments for the limited information we have. At least Vaati admits when the information doesn't perfectly line up. No, it's not suggested nor even hinted at that miquella betrayed malenia. It wouldn't even make narrative sense
@@gamersreactions9267This comment is made under the assumption that malenia has only bloomed twice. Then the 3rd could possibly be from Miquella in the future maybe in the dlc, thus making her 3rd bloom more vivid by his betrayal.
What if we have the option to fight Miquella at some point in the DLC, and then if you kill him the Millenia fight has a third phase... with three times the HP and poise :D
Just noticed this: the Mushroom Crown item looks an awful lot like the Xanthous Crown, even more interesting is where the Xanthous Crown was found in previous Souls games. -Jeremiah in the Painted World of Ariamis in DS1 (a world with signs of rot in it) -Yellowfinger Haysel in the Farron Keep in DS3 (a rotten swamp) This is the legacy of the Xanthous Crown
I got pretty emotional around the part where you're explaining milenia and why her move is called the waterfowl dance, all powerful stuff man. This river runs deep in this game and I love it to pieces
Just a little thing about the marais part. Marais (pronounced "mare") is a french word that means "swamp". I havent read anything about it, but in my opinion they take their name from the lake of rot or the swamp of aeonia, which emphasis their fascination for Malenia. (Sorry if I made mistakes, english isnt my first language)
A few thoughts: The amber starlight is also used to create an incredibly powerful sleep potion. Which is yet another symbol of miquella and saint Trina being one and the same. And 2: if I recall correctly the alabaster and onyx lord only do either push or pull gravity magic, but not both. So regarding the two different learning periods, it's possible he learned from different lords. There's one imprisoned behind the carian royal manor. I wonder if he's one of those teachers that ranni imprisoned? We know she has a tendency to do so, because she imprisoned the black knife ring leader.
I see Malenia battling Radhan because it was the only way to access Moghwyn Palace to save Miquella. Radhan's boss arena is just above Moghwyn Palace, but Radhan holding on the stars and defending Sellia (probably combined with his great rune power that makes his skin burn in a way, and probably making him more feral) didn't leave a choice for much negotiation, giving lead to a battle of who wanted to accomplish their duty the most
I dunno, there's a waygate in Consecrated Snowfield which leads straight to Mohgwyn palace which seems like a much more effecient way if she was going straight to Miquella.
@@custardpup6385I always assumed this waygate was built by the Mogwyn dynasty and kept covert, that's why it's in a random corner of a pretty inhospitable region and guarded by bloody phantom
It's always a treat when Vaati uploads, especially on a weekend when I can sit down and enjoy the lore with no distractions. Can't wait for Shadow of the Erdtree! 😁🔥
On the note about “stagnant water leads to decay” in the blue cloth set, I think this relates directly why Marika shattered the elden ring in the first place. It seemed almost motiveless and random since everyone else in the game seemed to have pretty strong trust in the golden order, but ALL of marika’s children have been cast outside of the golden order in one way or another (Morgott and Mohg with remnants of the crucible, and Malenia under the influence of the Rot God, and Godwyn who would come to live in death) The reason it might have been Marika’s fault that these things happen I think can be traced back to the stagnation. Marika prevented the cycle of life and death by instituting her golden order, and as a result Malenia and Miquella are stuck at different points in the cycle of life and death. Miquella will never grow old, and Malenia will constantly decay. I think this is because Marika put the flow of life into a stagnant state I don’t know how every demigod fits in to the equation but this is my theory on why marika shattered the elden ring in the first place
I'm glad you said this, I've been on this tip for a bit too, nicr to see it confirmed. Stagnation and decay caused by a refusal to let the world move forward is a running theme in Miyazaki's work, and frankly rings true to the zeitgeist. The world beyond change, beyond ideology that was declared in the 90's has, in many ways just stayed the same except for slowly, ever so slowly, getting worse. Not to read too much real life into the fantasy game, but slow decay seems to be a theme of the modern era, which echoes across a lot of art that has come out since it became perceptible. I think the feeling of this is why this theme is often so resonant for people, the feeling is in the air, and art always reflects life.
54:22 "Personally, I'd be down for that fight if she rises again with her lower half as a scorpion, or something" Goddamn, Vaati called that so hard, even if it wasn't Malenia.
I had never considered that Malenia might be gearing up for a comeback and now I can just hear her phase 2 intro lines and music repeating in my head. You will witness true horror indeed.
@@michaelhagen8537 They kinda reserve ''God'' for Outer Gods. Malenia and Maliketh are both Gods, yet do not give that message upon death, which is ironic since Maliketh dubs himself a God in cut dialogue (still in the game, just without a trigger currently), and Malenia is called the GODdess of Rot.
@@TheStraightestWhitest Pretty sure there is no dialogue or even any in game reference to Maliketh being a god. The guy's awesome, and is dubbed what demigods feared, but never a god. He's only the shadow of a god, it'd be like calling Blaidd a demigod due to his relation to Ranni.
@@TheStraightestWhitest Malekith is a shadow just like Blaidd is a shadow to Ranni. Malenia was still considered a demigod even after her "bloom" which supports that it may only be the 2nd bloom. Marika/Radagon and the Elden Beast are the only ones called a god so far.
@@theworstcatholic7247 I think there is cut content of Maliketh basically referring to himself as one of the Gods. There is a youtube video of all Maliketh's cut dialogue that I think he says it.
15:10 "this is why Malenia recovers health by attacking during her boss fight" I like to imagine FromSoftware added that to troll the players, appreciate your quality content
Oh here’s the boss with impressive mechanics and hard to dodge combos. But not yet, she also heals on hit. But not yet, her heal goes through shield block. But not yet, she has a total of 38k hp in her 2 phases. But not yet, her 2nd phase chases your ass down and leaves you near 0 chance to heal.
@@MaidenlessScrub Same. She's how I measure how good my build is, usually. If I can beat her within five tries, the build is decent. If I can't, I've got to scrap the build because it's worthless.
Watching this now after DLC, it's impressive how close you came to the reason behind the battle between Malenia and Radahn, without knowing the storyline in DLC
Such quality in your work. Each time, it's rediscovering the game. I went through missing all of this. It's impressive how deep the story has been built and with so much details, it's really amazing.
The Radahn fight was and still is one of the most epic things I've ever experienced in a game. It was a full-blown war, running towards him with all of those characters. I was struck with awe. The awe, which cannot be put into words.
@@Ryan-gw3yv it was pretty fuggin epic. Maybe let folks enjoy stuff instead of being a miserable 💩. Elden Ring is a very epic game. That's literally the point Miyazaki had when designing it. I can think of few (if any) other games that I've played over the last 20+ years that have had as amazing highpoints or made you truly feel like you were on an epic adventure in the same ways ER does.
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](/img/n.gif)
I love the cycle of playing a souls game, watching Vaati for lore, and then playing more because now you appreciate the bosses even more.
@@nightstrike7870 fextralife been a lifesaver
thiz
yaaas just wish his lore videos made me better at the games xD
Its a shame the games storytelling is so difficult to decipher that we need these well crafted deeply thought out videos. It'd be nice to play the game and naturally gain that appreciation for the bosses/other aspects of the game if the lore was actually presented properly in game.
YES, everytime i burnout playing FS games vaati always help me to clear and relax my head..... anndd died again
Seeing the sword movements between the blind master and Malenia was beautiful, never knew they matched movesets so much.
Can you time stamp where that is for me? I watched this vid last night and I wanted to see that part again but I can't find it. Much appreciated if you can!
@@darthskele 14:45
@@darthskele 14:40
Thank you! Both of you
Easily one of my favorite moments
Siofra is an Irish name meaning elf or fairy, so the Siofra river is the Fairy River. I'm gonna say it's safe to assume the river is the blue spirit
I know that Vaati knows this, I suspect it might be engagement bait.
Excellent catch
Wonderful.
And Ainsel is also a fairy trope. A fairy asks for your name, you respond "my name is me ainsel" (my own self) thus the fairy cannot steal your real name.
On the subject of tropes "marais" is french for a swampy area which makes sense with the lore of the castle sinking into one. Also what do you guys think about that : malenias bloom animation really looks like a phoenix being reborn with the colors and all. And Malenia has a bird winged helmet. Don't know what to make of it though.
30:05 post dlc this makes so much sense that she was there to fetch radahn's soul so that he could become miquella's new consort instead, interesting how you were able to make out the ulterior motives based on just godrick not getting killed...
RIGHTTTTT
Also kinda predicted the scarlet rot boss
Also makes sense how she almost kills herself just to infect Radahn, as that accomplishes her goal..
These hour-long lore videos are the only thing holding me over until more dlc news arrives
facts
I have a build with all unlockables/discoverable, weapons, sites of grace, ashes of war, there, with nothing to do, waiting for a new journey to begin
I decided to download DS2 to distract me, wish me luck 🫡
@@Alkatraz242 Have fun!! Despite it's weird world and mechanics, it's a decent game. Not the best by any means, but decent.
@@Alkatraz242 Get ready for peak gaming lol
Jk, still a great game though
Vaaty,
If I may tell you something. I’m a 42-year-old father and three. I played this game for about 50 hours never did complete it got to the fire giant, and Milenia but life happens now I experience this game vicariously through you. I can’t thank you enough for doing the work you do. It keeps me connected to a universe that I only wish I could spend more time in.
As always well done I believe you’re one of the best storytellers not just in the video game genre but on this platform as a whole.
Chris.
ehh i know a buddy whos a father of 4 but can still fit in time for games, so i guess its all about your scheduling skills
@@thedoomslayer5863 oh, that’s not it at all I wish. I left corporate America to branch out on my own a couple of years ago. While trying to build my business and support the family. Funny because people say you shouldn’t spend all of your leisure time working. But building is business is the most fun I’ve had in my entire life honestly even though I’ve sacrificed gaming/drumming/golf things like that. I get just as much satisfaction out of seeing the business grow as I did doing and playing these leisurely activities. Also got two special needs kids under eight years old. So there’s a little bit behind Why do you think I don’t have scheduling skills
@@AGlimpseInside Funny you call it corporate America yet go on to do something corporate.
Eh if its what you like doing i guess, i've yet to meet a business owner who has "fun" with it, most are stressed working their balls off when a subordinate underperforms or messes up or when there's a lack of workers ect.
The only ones i have met that are happy are retired and no longer stuck in the rat race and get to just like the 20-30 years they have left before the reaper calls their number.
@@thedoomslayer5863 bro, not having time for games does not immediately indicate ‘scheduling skills’…it just means they’ve got different, higher priorities
@@crazycupcakewizard1876 Based off what he says he wishes he could, if its something you really want to do but say you cant, often times its just not using your time efficiently
thats the point of what i was saying.
I don't know why but I love the idea of Malenia going along with her troops, walking through stormveil towards calid, when godrick calls her a bitch or something and she decides to take a minute just to beat him up
"What did he just call me? Oh HELL naw..."
😂
Malenia: I'm about to level up, and you look like just enough XP
I like to imagine it being completely one sided as well lmao like that one fight in jujutsu kaizen where itadori and nanamin just fuck mahito up lmaooo "Bitch fight back, call me that name again i dare you, i double dare you!".
I think she'd be perfectly calm about it, just casually humiliating him without even wasting her breath to say something. like if something got stuck to her shoe.
@@r.dommizsed2377 I feel like the whole battle would be one sided. I mean, how could a regular ass Godrick soldier deal with a godamn Cleanrot knight? Those guys can literally shoot rings of pure holiness from their scythes as an attack. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Malenia didn’t lose a single knight during that battle.
I love how the blind swordsman and malenia movement are almost identical. The way they move is beautiful.
......
I was looking for this comment, it was really cool seeing them on the same frame doing the same attacks!
Well the blue swordsman was her mentor
And also Millicent
The story of Malenia and the Blind swordman, with the image of the sets moves is INCREDIBLE
On the point of Malenia only blooming twice it’s also worth noting that the victory message for defeating Malenia is “DEMIGOD FELLED” instead of the “GOD SLAIN” you get when defeating Elden Beast.
Holy shit, that's a good catch! I'm both terrified and excited now to fight Malenia at 100% power 💀
Am I missing something? It doesn't say anything when you kill her or the other Demi-gods? you just get their rememberance, great rune and the trophy. Elden Beast is the only one with a victory message?
@@custardpup6385 even world bosses have a giant victory message😂
Yeah, but her boss title is Malenia, Goddess of Rot and she drops the Rememberance of rot goddess. The game is pretty inconsistent on that part
@@custardpup6385 all bosses leave a victory message upon death, just before you gain the runes for killing them. You have 4 tiers, "Enemy Slain" refers to bosses that aren't actually bosses but still have a boss health bar. "Great Enemy Slain" refers to any actual non demigod boss, placidusax or Godfrey for example. "Demigod Slain" refers exclusively to demigods, and "God Slain" is Radagon and Elden beast.
Malenia attacked Radahn because he had halted the stars, which halted Miquella's eclipse. This is what makes the story even more beautifully tragic because she didn't March for glory, power, a rune or the elden ring as she'd abandoned all of these things. She marched for her *Vin Diesel Voice* FAMILY. And through ultimate twist of tragic irony, it was because of her march that her brother was left unprotected to be stolen away by Mogh.
Issue is she marched on Family for family radahn being her half brother. She betrayed the power of *vin diesel family* and was claimed by it's power.
@@alexrowe7063 I mean to be fair, Marika told her children/half children which includes all the Shardbearers to go and kill each other for the Elden throne. They all had their agendas but kinda had no but to fight anyway that or they'll be forsaken and become sacrifices. Now Idk what "forsaken" means whether that means they'll get assassinated or what.
Radahn and Miquella weren't connected at all. Ranni's fate was bonded with stars, because she was daughter of Renalla and part of Carya family.
Malenia fought Radahn, because Mogh's palace is located under Kaelid. So, when Mogh stole Miquella, Malenia followed his footsteps but she had now idea, that she should look for Miquella in the underworld. She thought that it was Radahn, who stole her brother.
@@chuvits217 I'm pretty sure Miquella got kidnapped during Malenia's fight with Radahn or after she went into a coma when she couldn't be present. Mogh took advantage of the fact that Malenia was not there to defend Miquella.
Miquella wants to give Godwyn a "true" death according to Golden Epitaph.
"A sword made to commemorate the death of Godwyn the Golden, first of the demigods to die.
Infused with the humble prayer of a young boy; "O brother, lord brother, please die a true death."
In Castle Sol where you find the Haligtree half,
a Ghost says this:
“Lord Miquella, forgive me. The sun has not been swallowed. Our prayers were lacking. Your comrade remains soulless…. I will never set my eyes upon it now… Your divine Haligtree.”
Miquella needs a eclipse to make it happen and somehow Radahn being the Starscourge holding it back prevented an eclipse from happening. So Malenia was probably sent to fight Radahn.
@@trh3xa174 and yet, we know nothing about Miquella's connection to stars so it's no more then a theory. I hope in DLC we'll know more about Miquella's intentions
Fighting Malenia feels weird after killing Mohg. She doesnt seem like she lost her mind or anything so in reality I would have liked the option to just tell her where Miquella is.
That would mess up the DLC
@@TomS1205 True, but it’s still one of those times when you feel the lack of agency that you have in a game. You the player know information, but you don’t have the option to act on it.
@@DKdrop That's the absolute worst. BG3 does this in a major way at one point, which is made worse again by being based on D&D 5e, where there is no such restriction.
Guess you could just leave her alive considering you don’t need to kill her to access the dlc.
she is probably unaccessable for your words. she slumbers at the haligtree since her fight/bloom and the travel and without the needle the rot affects her more and more and well her sibling is gone, too.
maybe?
It actually makes perfect sense that malenia would suicide bomb radahn and sacrifice everything IF it means to open the path to finding miquella. Because then even if she is dead, miquella has the chance to be rescued.
It's honestly the only explanation that makes sense to me for being a good enough reason to/for her to let go of that will to hold back the scarlet rot, all the time she has spent her entire life fighting it, trying/learning to control it and seal/lock it away within her, only to let it all out/release it all in the end. Who would she ever even consider doing something like that for, but her one and only beloved dear brother, Miquella.
@@Chunkyloops well she learning it now, that rot can’t be seal and controlled by simply will. The ‘order’ ‘s mean is more then power.
@@Chunkyloopspersonally I think it's a survival thing - she was on the verge of death and so didn't have the strength to hold back the rot anymore, same as when we fight her, she actually falls and appears dead before the transformation, I think the rot simply won't let her die and will do whatever it can to sustain her.
If she fought radahn trying to find miquella, then why would she stop searching? You find her sleeping, and she seems confident that miquella will be back.
@@jakeharris2856 This is a good point, I personally think she was guarding Miquella in his cocoon, then ambition got the the better of her and she left for conquest (Maybe Miquella also suggested it or maybe Mohg made it seem like MIquella suggested it somehow) and then Mohg waited until she left the Haligtree and took the opportunity to nab Miquella while he was undefended, and then she gets brought back by Finlay and realised Miquella's gone.
Also, if you notice, Radahn is missing everything below the ankle in his battle with Melenia he really was... de-feeted.
Ah so that's why Malenia has never known Da-Feet
No wonder she was Radahn's ᴀʀᴄʜ-nemesis: She not only ravaged his body with the Rot, she also crushed his sᴏʟᴇ. And then she turned Caelid into ʜᴇᴇʟ on earth, so now Radahn's kingdom is on its last ʟᴇɢ... I kinda wonder though: Would a rematch between them be like a gritty ʀᴇʙᴏᴏᴛ, or would it just be a ʀᴇᴛʀᴇᴀᴅ of their first fight?
@GrahamChapman Mother of God all of the foot puns. 😄
Melania has prosthetic feet. She was de-feeted before the fight even began. 😔
I get that it’s a joke but the implication is they were worn away from being dragged along the ground.
Additionally in the cinematic trailer for Elden Ring which shows the fight, Radahn still has both his feet.
I always thought it was a bit strange how, even after all that time of Radahn holding back Ranni’s fate, she never expresses any sort of contempt for her brother. You would think she’d be furious at the person who essentially halted her plans for the age of stars for so long but no, she just kinda tells you to deal with him in a very matter of fact way. She probably admires her brother’s courage to some extent, and is glad that he will still be able to die a good death in battle, as she knew he’d have wanted
Ranni never even mentions Radahn in-game. She falls asleep and you and Blaidd find out you have to kill Radahn in order to get to Nokron. She doesn't even mention any of her family members in-game except Rennala.
She was the most patient of all the demigods. She played the long game and is arguably the only one that "wins" in the end (if you pick her ending anyway). So assuming she even knew Radahn was the one keeping her fate in stasis, to show anger towards him might have lead people to question why, which would've uncovered her whole plot. She's arguably the best mastermind in all of the lore because of how strategic she was. She knew what moves to make and when to make them, but just as importantly, she knew when *not* to make a move, instead opting to wait in the shadows.
it's not strange it's just proof the game is a mess. they shouldn't do any more "open world" games like this in the future
@@vetobandito intelligent people usually avoid giving away their motivations. I fathom you can't know from experience, but trust me on this one.
@@vetobandito Even if this wasn't an open world game they would still not tell you her feelings towards some characters you dunce
I think why the stars don't hit Sellia is because Jerren was well aware that Radahn was holding back the stars, and that's why he says when you try to talk to him before the festival begins
"Be patient, when the stars align, the festival will be held", so I think he was waiting for a special moment where the damage done won't be too hard, and that's why this falling star hits South-East of limgrave, where there isn't much life, instead of Sellia town.
Ooh and that's also why we find an astrolobe there too!
That's impressive! I never noticed that 😮
But how can the stars align, if their movement was frozen by Radahn?
That's right for the most part, but Jerren wasn't waiting to minimize damage but to actively help Ranni. Jerren was an extremely loyal friend to Radahn, and Radahn helped Ranni with her plans. It was most likely Radahn who throwed Ranni's two fingers into the underground of Manus Celes cathedral with his gravity magic.
Jerren repeatedly started the festival whenever the stars aligned so that they would continue Ranni's fate the moment they were unlocked.
@@meimeng04Most say Radahn held them BACK, not specifically in place, per say
So he could've been acting like a barrier or pushing force so they can't come, but still go elsewhere or move around
I do believe that Torrent's former master was Miquella, and he named him after Malenia's mentor, since a torrent is a stream of flowing water. The DLC art (if we assume it's Miquella the one that's depicted) kinda backs this up. Also, it would also make sense because Ranni, on her first appearance, mentions something about Torrent's former master, and gives you the Lone Wolf Ashes. It's always been curious to me that there were three wolves, but it makes sense when you remember that one of Miquella statues depicted him surrounded by three wolves. I guess the Lone Wolf Ashes were Miquella's wolves, who were separated from him somehow.
EDIT: I also forgot to mention that the Spectral Steed description says as it follows: "A delicate goldwork ring. Can be used as a finger whistle."
It doesn't specify that it was unalloyed gold, but Miquella has been widely associated that particular metal.
Brilliant catch
Uuuh... what if melina is to miquella what margit was to morgott?
Ranni is the Carian princess, and in the Carian manor there are wolves prowling around the area past the hands. Also, Blaidd is her shadow and a wolf-man and lastly she has some wolves before her Rise. Ranni is just wolf-associated
But wouldn't miquella hate ranni for having ordered the black knife assassins to kill Godwyn?
ah yes, Torrent, the 6th Hokage
God the scene where you setup melania training side by side the blind swordsman using similar movements was SO cool. These videos bring a whole new life to elden ring. I love this channel so much man you're a master artist
I absolutely adore the fact that we have all these high class names like Radahn, Melenia, Radigan, Lucaria, etc.
Then we get a horse named Leonard 😂
well...yes.
I think Leonard is a reference to the name's origin - lion-strength/lion hearted, which connects to the whole lion theme Radahn is going for.
Maureen?
What if it was pronounced Lee-oh-nard (hard). Sounds kinda fancy to me lol
Leonard likes this post.
34:45 "Miquella awaits thee, o promised consort"
I like how the essence of “Malenia vs. Radahn” goes all the way back to the days of Dark Souls 1. It’s literally just “Dex Enjoyers vs. Strength Enjoyers” personified
Malenia is the type of girl to detonate a nuclear in the middle of a swordfight that she's losing.
@@eetfuk3571 saying this like Radahn doesn't yeet himself into the heavens in the middle of a fight he's losing
@@tampabaylightning2264 not really, since Malenia used that as a last resort and went unconscious after blooming the first time. Her unconscious body had to be dragged away from the battlefield by her knights.
@@GardenK11 yes and radahn went looney and started eating his own knights. bravo to his astounding and daring victory over a blind swordswoman half his size
@@eetfuk3571she just wasn’t losing nobody was winning
In regards to Radahn saving Sellia from a 'falling star', originally The fight with Astel was going to take place in Radahn's arena, likely just after beating him.
It wasn't just some meteor he was trying to stop, it was a likely that Astel himself was going to fall and wreak havoc across Caelid in the original encounter.
To add to this, his weapons deal 30% bonus damage to Astel, the highest in the game. It's like they were created to fight beings of the void.
See how the "tech" field matter ?
@@trice286ah, like the meteoric ore Katana?
Where did you get that Astel was supposed to be fought in Radahn's area? I've never heard or seen anything that supports this.
@@fakechloe207 there’s unfinished animations for astel using the same attack as rahdan
With regards to what you said about Radahn not being beholden to the Golden Order, I think that his "fanboying" of Radagon and Godfrey was an admiration of their strength and leadership, not really a dedication to their ideals and motivations. He wished to be the warriors and the righteous men that they both were, even if he didn't share their beliefs of what it meant to be righteous.
You can be a fan of Hannibal and not like the Roman Empire
@@discipleofdagon8195that doesn’t really fit since Hannibal was an enemy of Rome, it’d be more fitting to say you can be a fan of Scipio and not Rome
@@bloodangels2900 Ok fair, my Roman history is a bit rusty but you get the point XD
@@discipleofdagon8195 yeah I figured, I just like spreading knowledge
Loved the use of in-game “re-enactments” for the various battles & interactions mentioned thru out the video! I especially loved seeing Malenia practicing her swordplay alongside her mentor the Blue Swordsman! 😊
I loved that part as well! thank you for commenting that out!
The Scarlet bloom being nurtured by betrayal has me hooked, especially when you consider this fact; the portals to the Haligtree and Moghwynn Dynasty are LITERALLY right across the river from each other. So this would probably explain how Mogh was able to get so close to Miquella, but even more so when you consider that one spirit that knew who took Miquella.
So another theory I suggest is that when Miquella comes back, it will be in the form of great betrayal of his sister, the ideals he held as the Unalloyed, all for the sake of growing up. And it's because of this, seeing how much she put herself into Miquella's dream, is what's gonna cause her to bloom into the True Goddess Of Rot.
She already bloomed into the rot goddess against the tarnished and gets killed
@@CodeeXD did you watch the video?
@@CodeeXDplease actually watch videos before you comment on them my dude.
@@Sivanot Whether it's her second or third bloom is debatable and not for certain one way or another, just because famous internet guy Vaati says so does not mean it's true
@@Koushakur it has nothing to do with "because vaati said so" it has to do with vaati providing evidence of only two blooms, Malenia being referred to as Goddess of Rot long before our fight, and there being no evidence of another bloom, besides the one outside of her arena, which is highly unlikely to be hers.
The stories of Malenia and Miquella, the Haligtree, and the tragedies that interconnect them are easily my favorite pieces of lore across all FromSoftware games. Just an astoundingly beautiful, poetic, and melancholic tale of two siblings boldly standing up to the powers that be in an ill-fated world.
Hearing about the infamously difficult Malenia from people online as I was progressing through my blind playthrough, making my way through the consecrated snowfield, the albinauric village, and finally finding myself standing atop the Haligtree was an incredible journey. I was ecstatic to see what awaited me as I worked my way down. Seeing Elphael for the first time in the distance, then shortly finding myself there, and hearing that powerful ambient music made me realize this was the true peak of the game, as far as I was concerned. This memory is my favorite of any game in the past several years.
Elphael's music says to me: "This is a place of refuge. It's dying. But it's still here."
I aggree. I want so much for her and Miquella to still be alive, and that their story continue past what we see in the game. They definitely are my favorite characters of Elden Ring, perhaps all of From Software, and I would be completely devastated if their story ended like this.
I hope we rip Miquella to shreds in the DLC to rid the world of the rotten filth they spread. Well, 95% of that was Malenia's fault. She betrayed everything Miquella stood for to try and preserve her artificial ''undefeated'' status, but still. That rotten behavior is in the family. Best rip it out by the root.
And to think that this whole segment is one massive secret area.
Random thing, but is Malenia's main technique, her blind practiced rends, the Waterfowl Dance, named such because of the whole "Flowing water is the antithesis of rot"? If so...
it is a beautiful part of the game, one the most amazing places not utilized enough in elden ring. but at least it exists. very Tolkien. however cannot say the same about the consecrated snowfield, mountaintops of the giants as it was rushed, empty, and probably the worst part of the game. those locations, they seem to have been made at very different times. i'd say the haligtree was made first. or at least it had more time to be created. it really shows. i wished the game wasn't rushed and had another year in the oven.
I find it hilarious that Vaati mentioned that he wouldn't be against fighting Malenia again provided she has the lower body of a scorption or something... and we got Romina in the DLC xD not the same BUT CLOSE ENOUGH!
Here’s how I think this part of the story fits together:
Miquella has made two important endeavours in Elden Ring. The first is his creation of the Haligtree and unalloyed gold, and the second is the attempted resurrection of Godwyn the Golden.
Sometime around the shattering, Miquella is slumbering inside a cocoon in the roots of the Haligtree, (where you fight Malenia,) just like one of those we see scattered everywhere around Elphael. (He can still be found in this cocoon in the present at Mohgwyn Palace, but I’ll get to that later.)
Meanwhile, Malenia is fighting Radahn in Caelid. Not for power, not for a Great Rune, and not for competition, but to unlock the motion of the stars for Miquella. The reason Miquella would want the motion of the stars unlocked is that the ritual to resurrect Godwyn required a solar eclipse. In fact, the eclipsed sun is directly referred to as “the protective star of soulless demigods” in the Eclipse Crest Greatshield’s item description, and we know that the expected eclipse never came because of dialogue with a spirit in Castle Sol. From this, I think it is reasonable to assume that Malenia was fighting Radahn on Miquella’s behalf to unlock the motion of the stars to resurrect Godwyn.
While Malenia is fighting Radahn, Miquella is left vulnerable at the roots of the Haligtree, at which point Mohg kidnaps him to be his consort in the Mohgwyn dynasty.
What do you think?
Nothing is concrete and confirmed but all the pieces fit together cohesively and logically based on in game data.
I think you are correct. Makes perfect sense. Maybe Malenia tried to convince Radhan to free the star, or maybe just the moon? And the general, being the warrior that he is, wished to fight the so called blade of Miquella in order to agree or not the Malenia's request.
I think you’re bang on 💯
I also thing that the Expansion will take time to elaborate on a lot of what you’re saying…
Never put together that Miquella would need the stars moving again, that finally explains why Malenia went after Radahn instead of finishing off Godrick for his rune. She never needed the runes, she needed Radahn specifically gone.
Pretty much how I view the event playing out, especially behind Malenia’s motive.
Malenia is shown to be prideful in her combat prowess. But we also know, from item descriptions, that she loved her brother dearly. If there is one thing that Malenia would sacrifice her pride for, it would be for her brother.
I feel like a connection could be made between the swordsman's blindness and Malenia's. Just as the tarnished are summoned to repair the golden order but can choose to turn away and serve Ranni (or madness, death, etc), perhaps the swordsman was chosen by the outer god of rot, and his blindness is a result of him rotting just as Malenia. The rot seems to need a champion to spread it as Malenia does to Caelid, and likely the Halightree, so perhaps that was the original mission of the swordsman. But somewhere along his journey, the spirit convinced him to betray rot, and rather than bringing rot to the world, he turned against it.
Yeah this is nice
Yeah this is my interpretation as well, that the swordsman's battle with the rot was a personal inner battle to resist it, and ultimately he sealed it within himself. Malenia did too, but she let it out when she battled Radahn and Millicent says she never fully recovered her "dignity" and couldn't seal it properly again.
Damn that's actually really good, I never thought of it that way. That makes a great deal of sense however, I was had a bit of suspension of disbelief loss with the tale originally due to the blind swordsman never really being shown as special other than skill and yet taking down a literal outer god. It being an inner conflict, that he was capable of overcoming thanks to the siofra river, learning the ways of flowing water, the opposite of stagnation makes so much more sense. Especially considering his blade is actually a rather normal blade, which was always something I found as off. However if he just had it shaped in the form of what helped him, inspired him to defeat the rot it all makes sense on why it was completely ordinary. That wasn't the blade that he defeated it with.
It would also makes sense on why he decided to help Malenia by teaching her his ways rather than take her out, as he likely saw his own suffering in her and if he could make it why not her? Instead of just a hunch like the surface story would seem.
Interesting theory/interpretation of the facts. Seeing as we talk to doll Rahni in Sofri river - Sofri is a welsh (?) word for fairy, the river has connections to leading champions down alternative routes for different ages.
I like to imagine that the great scorpion was closer to an emissary of an outer god rather than an actual outer god, kinda like the Elden Beast or the Twinbird. It would line up with the trend of the emissaries being large beasts/animals that wield the power of the outer god that sent them.
Tarnished: If I double jump, can I negate this fall damage?
Torrent: nope
Radahn: LEONARD, PREPARE FOR ATMOSPHERIC RE-ENTRY
Leonard: YES, MY GENERAL
Radahn actually pushes Leonard underground when he jumps into the sky, and pulls him back up after he lands
@@eviltoad746 and then he pulls him out of the ground at the site of impact, and leonard swims through land to get there /s
@@eviltoad746 yes, but Leonard skydiving with Radahn is funnier
LMAO!
@@Kub1na32Leonard is the strongest being, cursed to a frail frame to hinder his strength
I feel like she did fight Radahn for Miquella in one way or another, because also, if finding Miquella was her most important goal, why else would she fight so desperately to win?
It's also why I feel like her line, "I have never known defeat," is being said ironically, in a way. Winning all of her battles is a hollow thing to boast about since she ultimately gained nothing from her efforts, and ends up alone and unable to search for Miquella anymore, and I feel like she'd be painfully aware of this. She's saying it just as if it's a fact that she unfortunately has to remind you about.
14:50 this is beautiful
The flow of the blind swordsman’s strikes is so similar to that of water, with the way his hand stops almost like a wave
And while Malenia’s attacks are similar, they’re somewhat static, I’m aware this is due to the game’s animations, that the curved swords are meant to have those flowing animations with little static movements while the katanas have static movements
But here it really looks like a master whose movements flow like water, and a student, who, while she can certainly understand and imitate what her master teaches her, still has a long way to go, before she can move with the elegance of the blind swordsman
Also
I like to believe that when Godrick insulted Malenia, she took less offence from the insult thrown at her, and more from the insults toward Miquella and the Haligtree
For one thing, the Haligtree, while likely not intended to be the Erdtree’s rival, was still grown with the intention of actions that went against the Erdtree’s grace, providing a sanctuary for those spurned by the grace of gold, a home to Misbegotten and Albinaurics, and while there are none in the Haligtree, I have no doubt that Omens would likely be welcomed there as well, to insult a sanctuary for those less fortunate by invalidating its claims and what it stands for, would justifiably anger Malenia
And then there was the insult towards Miquella, Miquella was a genius, a straight up prodigy in every sense of the word, even created an incantation in the name of his father Radagon. Yet Godrick had the nerve to insult Miquella for a curse he never asked for, something completely out of his control
You’re right, it is quite strange that Malenia didn’t outright kill Godrick
Sparing Godrick may have been an artifact of the writers creating past conflict between characters of the world. Godrick is an easy choice if Malenia’s march to Radahn was a previous decision in the foundational lore
you cant be serious....
I like to think she spared him to humiliate him even further.
If you look at Godrick's body after killing him, he is essentially a torso with a head on it and nothing more, just like Malenia because of the Rot.
So I believe Malenia deliberately spared him but at the same time cut off all his limbs to deliver the ultimate humiliation (which would also explain why Godrick grafted a bloody Troll torso on him).
She spared him because she has value in herself and her brother. She does not see Godrick as a threat, nor is she even on track towards stormveil. She need not Great Runes, but to murder Radahn. To resume Miquella’s eclipse.
That’s the goal, not godrick
It could be because miquella did not wish to kill family they did not have to. Killing Radahn would be crucial to his plan to continue his fate. Or possibly they did so to appease morgott.
He didn't seem to want the family to fight amongst themselves so the price of heading through leyndell and liurnia peacefully they had to agree not to slay any demigod.
It's why I think Radahn was in a berserker state from his elden rune. Malenia tried to appeal to him to release the stars but he was unbalanced by his rune and tempers flared to the point he attacked her and war broke out
I like to think that the shooting star meant for Sellia hitting Limgrave instead is because, while Radahn held the stars in place, the world continued to turn (as there is still day and night).
Although the shot missed its intended mark, it still enabled access to the both Eternal Cities. Despite his best efforts, Radahn could not avert destiny.
She was probably whispering 'I am Malenia, Blade of Miquella' when she first blossomed
Radahn standing there thinking "good fight sis, 10/10 would face you in honourable combat again" and she goes "and I have never known defeat" before giving him cancer
if you play the dlc, there is an armor set that tells you what malenia said.
@@lancepurple1468 casually drops spoilers
I remember the first time through the game, I thought Millicent WAS Malenia, having lost her memory and her prosthesis in the battle with Radahn. And that through the work we were doing, we were restoring her, and ultimately setting up the final battle with her. Which would have been a really cool thing for the series. Really establish a personal connection with one of the bosses, and make it more tragic when we have to fight her.
Damn it dude I already adore both of these women and now I love them even more now cause of this concept. Gonna screenshot this for and save it as an idea. Thank you 🙏🏿.
Bro that would have been sick
Being the "finest bud", milicent could be to malenia what margit was to morgott: an initially lesser iteration with a similar potential. Maybe, the third blossom of "betrayal" will happen if we find the third bud while the unalloyed gold needle is still under our possesion.
@@Ghost_gc I think Margit and Morgott are the same guy however, since Margit was the name he took when he went out on patrol missions (due to his status as an omen)
@Ultimateeick kinda. Margit is one of Morgotts illusions, just like the illusion of godfrey and his brother in the sewers. Watch the beginning margit cutscene carefully and you will see the same golden shimmer surrounding all the other illusion bosses.
i love the idea of her bloom at your encounter with her only being the second one, it brings me hope of a reunion between the twins! then again, knowing these games, you'd probably just end up with your heart broken at some shakespearean tragedy
Or you know end up fighting a duo boss containing a stronger version of Malenia.
That’s why I like the speculative theory at the end of Melenia’s betrayal causing her to become a god.
Idk I don’t like the idea that I fought and beat her when she wasn’t at her full power. For me that takes away some of the accomplishment
@@aaayjay yeah I know where you are coming from bro I got the same impression. But now that I think about it more the same applies for most FromSoft's bosses. Spoiler: When the protagonist encounters Gwin, Gherman and even Ishin (Shura path), lorewise they are not fighting them in their prime or at their full capability and that leads one to believe just how formidable and powerful these guys once were or could be in case of Malenia (if the last theory in the video applies)
@@jepukebu97 something similar to the "twin princes" in dark souls III ... that would be dope seeing in the upcoming DLC !
The blue dancer being a spirit of the siofra river makes so much sense. The Nox all wear blindfolds which could link them to the 'blind' swordsman.
The waterfowl dance is such a touchy thing for everyone, and after watching this, I can't help but smile every time I see her pop it off, knowing what it means for her. Fucking beautiful.
it took me about 35-40 attempts to beat her on a blood build. definitely the hardest boss to face. godfrey & radagon were top as well. I never faulted her for her style or the boss difficulty and unironically, I would NEVER want fromsoft or miyasaki to change that. keep the difficulty moved up to where it's at. the lore & story behind everything is truly remarkable & almost makes you not want to progress because you know their pain. I haven't seen a game link so many worlds together in 1 environment in my lifetime. insane.
I think the reason the star hits Limgrave and not Sellia is because, at that point in time, the fate of the world(or Radhan’s own fate maybe) was that Sellia would get hit, but since Radahn stopped that from happening and some time has passed (+Sellia is already destroyed in the present) the star is now following Ranni’s fate instead
It’d make more sense that Sellias location moved in outer space since then but that too is all head cannon
@@certifiedcib7958oh yeah true, if the lands between is on a actual planet then the planet would’ve spun away from original trajectory of the star
Or maybe Astel saw all that rot and decided to land somewhere else? xD
its insinuated by the game that the lands between is shifting and changing, quelaag has an amazing ramble vid on it but maybe thats why. like its one great big finger unfurling and the meteor ended up alittle further west
@@rod4309 You mean deep inside the earth behind an entire lake of *liquid* rot?
Out of the frying pan and into the fire, I'd say
Stars being locked in place is like a stagnant river, and this could mean that Radahn unknowingly created a world where Scarlett Rot could thrive. The very fact of stagnation could have been a strong enough reason for Malenia to fight Radahn, as she tried hard to keep the Rot at bay.
It is interesting how much Malenia is loved by the fan base. Just as much as Radahn is, by a different section. Their entwined story is one of tragedy, their battle a Pyrrhic victory that leaves the Shattering war undecided.
And those fanbases absolutely hate each other. Poetic
@@JABRIEL251 really? I love both but general radhan is my absolute favorite fromsoft boss ever actually. But I don't hate any fans that like her more not sure why people would be like that shits stupid af to me
@@dominicp9296 Yeah the nerd rage war between the Radahn stans and Malenia simps is more fierce than the actual fight itself.
@@JABRIEL251 I like both of them…but so far most of the extremists I saw are Radahn stans and I was like bro chill 😭
@@JABRIEL251 In a way, I find it fitting. People see what each side stands for and, depending on their personal values, get sucked into the battle. Radahn, the alpha beast who conquered the agents of fate itself; Malenia, cursed from birth to be the pawn on someone else's chess board. In a weird way, both bosses are defined by their relation to fate: those who struggle and surmount it, and those who are inevitably subsumed by it.
Strangely poetic, I think.
Man, Vaati hit the nail on the head at the end with predicting Miquellas betrayal
betrayal of who?
Malenia was most likely in support of Miquella's plan and was dedicated to him.
@@jancul8334he left her to die in haligtree proceeding with his plan without giving a damn About what could happen to her until the tarnished killed her.
That's speculation. Malenia knew Miquella would return once he became a god. Miquella became a god just before we encounter him. He was going to return to The Lands Between after.
So glad Vaati made a point to talk about how we don't really know why Radahn and Malenia fought, we just have the backdrop of the Shattering. This was the very question that I needed an answer to and its what pulled me into the game.
If the coming DLC is gonna go deep into all the Miquella-shaped plot holes, I'd bet its finally gonna give us an explanation for that showdown.
I hope so but I doubt we are gonna get an answer to that question.
There have been theories on why they fought. I heard this one theory that Miquella knew Radan kept the stars still and he needed him killed in order for them to move so an eclipse would occur and potentially revive Godwyn from Castle Sol. So he sends Malenia and a army to try and kill him.
@@quack-tastictictac1630 yep, this is the most compelling explanation I've heard so far
@@quack-tastictictac1630 You heard this theory... just now in the video? Or somewhere else before...?
@@pitchthewoo Somewhere else in another video, don’t remember the name of it unfortunately.
Edit: He does mention this theory in the video, but I first heard it somewhere else.
If your theory of Malenia not being dead holds true, I am looking forward to the DLC. Its so heartbreaking to see what happened to Miquella along with Malenia, I wanna see the possibility of them reuniting.
Yeah, reuniting against you.
@@gabrielghabsheh2412 cant wait to hear "I am Malenia, Blade of Miquella" 2.0, 100 times again
@@gabrielghabsheh2412 get ready for the single hardest duo boss that will ever be made 😂 st trina and her rejuvenated blade 😬
@@crestren5996 😂😂😂!!!! “2.0”
@@gabrielghabsheh2412 I swear we players are just a bunch of masochists and simps. I'd like to be thrashed again by Malenia. Hell, her and Miquella would be even more thrilling. I wonder how many times I'll die before defeating the cursed siblings🤣
37:41 It seems most likely to me that O'Neil served Malenia, due to the Haligtree insignia on his armour. O'Neil's armour is also very closely related to Commander Niall's armour, and it is known that Niall served Miquella, who made his prosthesis for him. Radahn also didn't 'flee', he slaughtered both friend and foe until letting his rune burn himself in a last attempt to stave off Rot.
Moreso, the Redmane Knights only seem to remember Aeonia with shame (their armour set). Finally, O'Neil stands in a swamp of rot instead of trying to ward it away with fire.
Methinks he was a soldier who served Malenia but was not close to her like the Cleanrot Knights were, or he would not 'remember the battle with pride'.
O'Neil does not attack the Cleanrots around him(vice versa), but attacks directly to Redmanes when he sees them. I noticed this when teleporting mobs and bosses to each other. Besides, Vaati says he's a rot hater but it seems he never fought with O'Neil, 50% of his attacks infect Scarlet Rot.
@@rize8700 Yep. It seems he's another Marais-type who admired Malenia's godhood, as typified by the ghost praying near the Aeonian swamp.
He doesn't seem to know of Malenia's pain and her struggle against the Rot. Miquella- who looks very much like he manipulated and used a lot of people- probably used O'Neil in this way as well. A powerful and commanding soldier, but not privy to their inner circle like the Cleanrot Knights seem to be.
I always got the impression from O'Neil is that he would rather stay on the battlefield along with some of the Cleanrot knights and hold onto Malenia's broken needle as reverence for her. He could have returned back to Castle Sol, but chose not to. He's this die hard veteran who would die on the battlefield.
he also uses rot attacks which imo kinda confirms he's fought for Malenia, one could argue he was getting corrupted by rot or it's just because of the environement but idk
@@soulslore2029 he could've returned the needle but chose not to
His stubbornness is the reason malenia has a phase 2
I listened to this video at least 3 times while working on my Malenia cosplay. Just as she's too stubborn to be defeated and heals herself, your videos gave me the will to continue working on this ❤ Thank you, and I hope there's more videos, eventually, that I can listen to while fixing the cape.
Indeed coming back here as I cut out the Haligtree pattern a second time ...
Absolutely love these videos. I often have to pause and double check stuff, there's so many things I missed in my playthrough. The illustrations on the Heirlooms really took me by surprise here, I didn't look at them too closely, lots of cool stuff. Also, you can only use Miquella's Needle in the storm beyond time? (Dragonlord Placidusax’s arena) That's so rad.
oh god not you
I didn't know you played such a W game 👍
Locals Only! ☠️
RARR! 🦁
Oog! Oog! Oog! Oog! 🦍
For a long time I wondered why Malenia and Radan fought. Maybe a possible motive was that Radan's power to hold the stars in place also made an eclipse impossible. We know that miquella, needed an eclipse to happen, and without the movement of the moon(which is a celestial body but no star) and the sun(which is a star) an eclipse can't be happening. Maybe even the dlc takes place in the lands between after the long awaited eclipse finally happened.
Or she was chasing her brother who had been kidnapped and hidden directly beneath Radahn’s hometown, but the glory-hungry war-monger wouldn’t let her pass without a challenge.
@@dodiswatchbobobodidn't mohg kidnap miquella while malenia was marching?
@@Bug13546 Why would Malenia be marching if she was supposed to stay in the tree with her brother until they were both cured?
@@dodiswatchbobobo
Oh... I don’t know, maybe because one of miquella’s main goals were to summon an eclipse to rest Godwyn’s soul to eternal death but ungabunga merchant radahn locked the stars in his own battles, directly preventing ranni’s fate, but also haulting Miquella’s eclipse.
It’s very, VERY clear that Malenia’s soul existence is to primarily serve Miquella in everything Malenia does. Her marching to Radahn was likely Miquella’s own choice
TL:DR - read the original comment to this thread lol
(Theory: this is where the DLC picks up. Following this storyline)
@@HeevaEgo I don’t believe Godfrey’s eclipse was more important than Malenia’s rot being purged. Also they were both already sleeping.
I noticed you said that the fight between Malenia and Radahn ended when she released the scarlet aoniea, however a ghost near the scarlet aoenia says "Let me see it, if only one last time.
Your splendid blade, dancing amongst the scarlet rot." So they probably kept fighting for a while after that.
my head cannon is that they fought to a stalemate in her equivalent of her phase two. From what it is described as in the lore, Radahn beats her normally in combat, before she blooms, and its implied the two of them continue fighting before both retreat and end the fight in a draw.
Yeah, that also explains why Radahn arena is so far away from the Bloom, the fight probably moved to the beach, or at least close, after it.
@@Frankieboy1123 nah she wasn't at her prime in phase 2. Which means Radahn is in fact weaker than the Malenia the tarnished fights. Ofc this doesn't mean Radahn is weak considering that he basically won the first round against malenia.
@@camarobro1897when malenia bloom she doesn't get her wings unless is her 3rd time blooming (when she fought radahn she still had her armor after that bloom. Only with us she gets the wings (meaning her 3rd bloom) and becomes her most powerful self (se can't turn back to normal anymore)
@Fersho nah there's no second bloom. Please check your info before spouting nonsense
I think the star hit limgrave instead because while he stopped the movement of the stars, he didn't stop the movements of the earth. Even the slightest adjustment can massively change accuracy.
Its incredible that you can make an hour long video feel so short, I always feel like it's just getting started when the video comes to am end. I don't know how you do it but being able to captivate the audience and hold their attention the way you do is super impressive.
I am just so happy to realize that it may not have been an end of Malenia. The third bloom yet to happen is such a wonderful discovery, specially considering that it aligns well with Oracles performing live at Haligtree.
And the potential betrayal by Miquella may be a big twist as well. Miquella-Malenia lore is just absolutely heart shattering and this will just make it pure melanchy.
An ultimate, super-powered and super-peeved Malenia taking her frustration out on us sounds like both the absolute worst and best fight
I really hope its not the end of Milicent, I would be happy if we get more to her story in the DLC as a boss fight maybe with some alternate dialogue depending on if you did or didn't betray her. Like Sif in DKS 1 that would react to if you defeated Manus before or not
It would be a dumb twist since Miquella's entire motive is to help Malenia
No, no, no.
I don't know why everybody eats up this insipid theory so easily.
What anyone with a sense of observation would "discover" is that the second bloom has already happened before the fight.
It's in the room to the left of the grace before you fight her.
Also it's incredibly hard to miss for anyone paying an ounce of attention
@@joshuahendricks9558 did you watch the video? We can't say for certain if that is Malenia's Bloom, since you find the Traveller's clothes right next to it. The exact same clothes that Millicent and her sisters wear. Wanna know another funny thing? Once Millicent dies, guess what shows up at her place of death. That's right! It's a blooming flower! Just like the one in that room and just like the one that shows up after you defeat Malenia. What a coincidence!
There's a lot of stuff that may seem "obvious" upon first playing the game, but have a lot of hidden details attached to them that completely changes what we know about said thing. So, again, we can't say for certain if that was Malenia's bloom, but we also can't say for certain that it isn't. all we can do is wait and speculate until fromsoft decides to answer our questions.
I was surprised you didn't mention Gowry turning into a Pest when you kill him early, and his dialogue in that situation. I suppose that's reserved for the Millicent video. Him re-possessing other Pests every time you kill him is akin to how agents of another Outer God can possess bodies to further their God's will. I am of course referring to agents of the God of the Frenzied Flame, Shabriri and Hyetta. Gowry is probably an agent of the God of Rot, and not just some random fanboy.
So coming back to this now with shadow of the erdtree and having to beat radahn and free the stars makes it pretty clear that malenia was trying to get back to miquella and the stars had to have fallen for her to access the new dlc area
Oh damn, that actually makes so much sense! There are the connections between Miquella and Godwyn, and then all 3 of them including Malenia because of the statues at the haligtree… so Miquella and Malenia, who have an established bond with Godwyn, become aware that an eclipse could help or restore him in some way, but said eclipse is being unpurposefully prevented by Radahn. Malenia leaves to fight, and Mohg mohg’s Miquella while she’s gone. That honestly had me stumped the entire time ER has been out but that really seems like solid rationale for the conflict
Your storytime videos are great. Your shorts are great. But these feature length lore breakdowns, Miquella and Malenia especially, are masterworks. So much detail. SO MANY overlapping webs of lore, imagery, themes. You’ve never stopped improving, Vaati, keep up the excellence!
I just realized that the "time-bending powers" needed to perfect the needle could have been provided by Godwyn. He was the the demigod closest to the dragons and clearly practiced their powers as shown by the Golden Lightning. He could have one day ascended to Placidusax's heights and helped cure his sister, but of course, that isn't exactly possible anymore is it?
That damned ranni ruined everything
@@mohammadsaleem5990 nah she was also a pawn in the Greater Will's Order. And it might've been on Marika's orders too.
That may be why he wanted his brother to "die a true death." Because we know that when you die, you come back thanks to the erdtree. Maybe he didnt actually care about Godwyn, he just wanted his help saving Melania. :O
Woild also explain why miquiella wants to save him, in addition to seemingly being the only chill person in the lands between
@@maybemablemaples2144 ok but why would they do that, ask yourself that
Now we know why malenia marched south to fight radahn. Incredible DLC
I feel like Melenia traveled to kill Radahn to get the stars moving again, but the main benefit of this may have been that her fate being in "stagnation" further strengthened the rot and so she may have been trying to cause her fate to flow once again.
Miyazaki really likes writing badass one-armed characters. Artorias, Sekiro and now Malenia.
Well he is a Guts fanboy so makes sense
Lol. Mentioning Artorias in the same light as Sekiro or Malenia is just wrong. Artorias isnt even fit to shine Juno Hoslow’s boots, let alone Sekiro or Malenia.
@@ackvendor True, but we have to also know that these badass characters started with artorias.
@@ackvendor strange take
@@ackvendor absolute wild take, not only was Artorias the only one willing to go into Oolacile to defeat the Abyss, but he protected his dog JUST in case, and it worked. The truest chad. Not because of knighthood, honor or loyalty. But because of his love AND courage.
I feel that Millicent is not a mere parallel to Malenia but an actual fragment. As you pointed out in the Haligtree she states she is there to return a sense of dignity to Malenia that was once her own. Furthermore when the fight with Malenia begins she states that she dreamt for so long and her flesh was dull gold and her blood rotted. I don't think Malenia has golden skin but Millicent most certainly does.
Millicent states she is of Malenia’s blood, but doesn’t know the exact relation. She is literally a part of Malenia that was separated from her after the first Scarlet Aeonia.
She also literally says she is a spawn of Malenia to some extent - but clarifies that she doesn't know exactly how
It would be sick if we could help Melania reunite with Miquila and fight the rot god in the dlc
Cut dialogue script suggests the original quest line may have had malenia survive your boss fight and later become freinds. It definitely seems this was the original design as the existing battle has zero reason to occur and there is no reason to fight her as it is.
My favorite thing about Malenia's version of the rot god is almost completely different. The change from scorpion god to butterflies is such an interesting change from the original Rot God. From scorpions, to butterflies. It's a fascinating change.
lol there's no transition
Malenia is the butterfly
the rot stayed rot fam
don't swim in your fanfiction
@@kaiserdetectivegolden2735 it’s just an observation buckaroo, chill out
@@lsdxiii DW about him he just doesn’t like Malenia. I also love how the rot god changed representation from scorpions to butterflies, makes me wonder if it can only manifest itself in the form of arthropods.
There's also a very interesting contrast between the Lake of Rot and Aeonia swamp. The Lake of Rot, for the lack of better terms, is a sea of desolate death. Anything that lives there lives in spite of the rot, not because of it. It's a stagnant, fetid wasteland that's the equivalent of a mass of toilet water that's festering so badly that not even its inhabitants seem to want to be there. In contrast, the Aeonian wildlife has mutated due to the rot and thrive because of it, creating an entire ecosystem filled with life. Extremely hostile life, but still life.
The scorpion is a creature associated with poison and death while the butterfly is associated with life and rebirth. Even Gowry refers to Malenia with imagery pertaining to blooming flowers, which is quite the antithesis from the stagnant rot that the Rot God is associated with. It seems that Malenia's extreme resistance against the Rot God has her develop her own type of rot that defies what the Rot God is supposed to be about as one final middle finger to her fate. If she's going to rot, it's going to be a bloom into new life rather than a dead lake of nothingness.
@@joshuakim5240 Now that you mention that, it really puts scarlet aeonia’s description under a new light. It mentions aeonia specifically being Malenia’s “tehnique”. Oh and the fact that there’s no aeonias or any flowers in lake of rot kinda drives that point home (however there are aeonia butterflies).
The shot of the Gargoyle at 46:00 was so epic, they never seemed imposing to me, they dont seem to be to posess much mass by the way they buzz around, and flail around, they just seemed big for the sake of making them more epic, more gargantuan.
But portraying them as a massive, murky figure, slowly, menacingly approaching paints him as a truely monstous foe, he finally looks like he could be a boss instead of a mini-boss.
The regal ancestor spirit theme along with the sword dance at 7:15 was simply beautiful.
30:44 makes so much sense after the dlc came out, she didnt want power or great runes she wanted radahn dead
Radahn was the promised consort
couldnt even do it too lol, we had to come along and finish the job
malenia recovering health because her movements have the inate properties of flowing water and linking that to the blue dancer charm is just *chefs kiss*
Amazing
What's also interesting is the fact that you actually still can interact with Malenia's bloom after you fought her in Milicent's questline. You return the Unalloyed Golden Needle to Malenia, but because it was worn by Milicent it's properties have changed because the item description changes to: "Removed by Millicent from her flesh. Bears no trace of befouled blood, but is faintly moist with dew.
"There is something I must return to Malenia. The dignity, the sense of self, that allowed her to resist the call of the scarlet rot."
It seems to imply Malenia is still there somehow as you return the needle, now moist with dew (which also has interesting lore implications), to return her sense of dignity back to her. In return you receive Miquella's needle but funnily enough also a Somber Ancient Dragon Smithing Stone which description has an interesting tidbit: "The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time. This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god." Almost like a hint telling the Tarnished where you need to go to use Miquella's needle and fend of the influence of outer gods.
Yes, this is what Malenia gives you as a token of gratitude.
This is why I love the character. Throughout the game, you hear a lot about her and most of it not good. She's blamed, at least impart, for what happened at Shaded Castle. She kicks Godrick around. Then marches on Caelid and destroys it.
But then when you meet her, she's actually kind of nice. Sure, she's not happy you broke into her home and interrupted what is possibly a dream she maybe sharing with Miquella or one he's given her to comfort her while she waits and recovers. She doesn't call you "foul Tarnished", gloat, throw things at you, or let her mutant babies bite your ankles. She just chats it up with you, gives you a swordsman's salute, and introduces herself.
She acknowledges you as worthy of being an Elden Lord if you defeat her. And she shows you gratitude for returning her pride.
@@TheRisky9 believe me there is no much people blame her in lands between even in Caelid, the people more respect her then disrespect her. What made u feel that is becoz Chatdanh fan such a annoying exist…
@@cozmic7978 Um... I'm talking about the narrative in the game. Not the fanboys and girls.
@@cozmic7978 did bro have a stronke while writing this?
It's wonderful how the Shattering was such a violent and vulerable time with so many great powers at play, yet in the end all balanced out and none managed to take control.
It was fun to rewatch this after what we've learned from the DLC, where some of the questions posed here are answered.
I could have sworn I read somewhere that Miquella was taken as Malenia went to go and fight with Radahn, and that until we go and find her, she had been in a deep slumber. I feel like this also kind of fits with what she says when you first encounter her, where she says that she has been sleeping and dreaming of battles, while she awaits the return of Miquella.
I think it was some playstation desc of elden ring saying how we would fight WITH radahn and malenia instead of AGAINST them. theres even some cut dialogue that malenia was actually close with us in some way. Partner, lover, battle sister idk some close connection though.
Every new video makes me want to go back and watch an older one for clarity. The lore of this game is rich and dense, and you're doing a phenomenal job interpreting it for us! Really grateful
I’ve always found it interesting how a lot of characters have a counterpart tied to them. Melina and Ranni, Morgott and Mohg, Malenia and Miquella etc… The concept of “twins” in this game I feel is a huge underlying part of the story and quest lines with NPCs. Because when I came across Millicent in Caelid I thought it was Malenia (knowing already about malekith/gurranq). They look extremely similar especially with hair color and dress along with missing a limb which you end up giving to her. Along with finding her with rot already inside her. Drawing a similarity to gurranq, by giving him death root it’s acting like you are restoring him. Just like Millicent, the needle and her prosthetic. I don’t understand what it all means. But everything is done with an intent at fromsoft. So if this DLC is truly about miquella I’m curious how they will paint his picture.
I'm not going to act like an expert, but "divine twins" seem to be a common thing in real world mythologies. I believe in Europe, for instance, "the divine horse twins" were a common reoccurring theme stretching off into the uncertainty of prehistory, presumably from the eurasian step. Hengest and horsa being a relatively late representation of that. I need to look more into that subject myself
There's also:
Marika and Radagon
Godfrey and Hoarah Loux
Darian and Devin (D twin brothers)
Diallos Hoslow and Juno Hoslow
Indeed, Duality is a very prominent theme in Elden Ring.
Isnt it confirmed that millicent was originally supposed to be malenia but they cut that and made her a seperate character
@@qoki2244 source ?
where do you see parallels between melina and ranni? i'm interested
It's funny watching old lore videos now that the DLCs out
I really wish we could actually befriend and help Malenia. Don't get me wrong, great boss and storyline there. But also, I love her character and feel for her, she fights the rot so much
I hate her. Its because radahn is my favourite. I think it was a dirty trick to suicide bomb and call herself undefeated
@@fr0sty790Why is Radahn allowed to use his gravity magic, but Malenia is not allowed to use her Scarlet Rot?
Malenia also didn't have several of her limbs and is mostly blind. The fact that she fought him to a standstill shows how skilled she was.
@juanlaise1059 it’s bc radahn held back with his gravity magic since if he really wanted to, he could’ve easily have just used his magic to send a star or meteor to kill malenia, crush her into an infinitely small point like with a black hole, or just simply use it to send her flying off to space never to return. Instead he tried to fight fair using no bullshit while malenia got desperate
@@mrvespuccia.k.ameganite1747
He cannot send stars nor meteors. The strongest ability we know he has is him going to the atmosphere and coming back as a meteor himself(and since we don't see how their fight went out, aside from a small part in the trailer) he couls have used it.
He cannot crush the Tarnished either with his gravity magic, so why would it work on Malenia, who is far stromger than the Tarnished that fights Radahn at the time?
It was stated both were equal and that Malenia used her Scarlet Rot to break the draw.
Saying Radahn would have easily killed Malenia is completely against everything we are told. Nowhere is it hinted that he held back against Malenia or us.
@juanlaise1059 I just hate that she calls herself undefeated. She suicide bombed, gave up her everything, got knocked out, condemned Caelid to rot and had to be dragged back while the Cleanrots stayed behind to cover the retreat. All because Radanh allowed her to get up after she got knocked to the ground and her prothesis came loose. If he had pressed his attack, that'd have been it.
You can see the Haligtree from the cliff to the left of the Shaded Castle. Also, Miquella's Cocoon is exactly underneath the site of Malenia's first bloom
I think as far as the Great Scorpion is concerned, I see it as the Outer God of Rot’s Beast, in a similar way that the Elden Beast is the manifestation of the Elden Ring and the Greater Will. We know the Outer God of Death also has a similar Beast as described in the Twinbird Kite Shield, being the Twinbird itself, mother to all the deathbirds we fight in the lands between.
I’m not sure if that means the Beast is the manifestation of the Outer God directly or just the manifestation of their will upon the laws of nature in the lands between, or maybe those are both the same thing honestly
yeah, gods seem to exist kind of in a fractal state where they keep subdividing but the subdivisions fundamentally contain all parts of the original
Continuing this theory, would that make the Regal Ancestor Spirit the Beast/manifestation of the old Great Tree? The one the crucible knights were based off?
In which case, much as the player does battle with the Elden Beast, the Blind Swordsman likely fought against this Great Scorpion to break the Outer God of Rot's hold over the Land's Between, and then (as stated above by @Jstar338) was aided by the spirit of the Siofra River to seal the essence of the Outer God in the Lake of Rot.
The scorpion tail’s owner makes an appearance in the DLC, super super cool!
I don't think its one in the same as the owner isn't a god, might be coincidence of body
I want to think what she said to radahn was something along the lines of "forgive me brother" because she probably knew what would happen or at least a degree of it because I very much like stories of these two just chilling before the shattering
I think your theory that Miquella sent Malenia to resume the movement of the stars makes the most sense. It got me thinking. I'm not sure if the timing fits, but with Malenia away, that would have been the perfect opportunity for Mohg to steal Miquella, I just don't know if the lore clearly states when he did this. If the timing does fit though, then from Malenia's perspective, she left the Haligtree to fulfill her brother's wishes only to be returned not only in failure, but also having rejected her brothers kindness and efforts by willfully succumbing to the rot that Miquella had worked so hard to stave off. Even breaking the needle he gave her in the process. So when she returns with this shame and sees that her brother is gone, she may have thought that she betrayed Miquella and that he had left as a result of that perceived betrayal. Though this would depend on whether Mohg's intrusion was covert or not (I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was covert, but I can't be sure). So, having just lost everything she valued and believing it was all her own fault, Malenia lamented and could only wait. Either for her brother to return, or for a chance to redeem herself. This would also help explain why she didn't search for him. She thought she had failed him and didn't believe herself worthy to seek him out, only to wait and protect what he had left behind.
Huh, I originally just wanted to comment saying I liked your theory, but my flow of thought just kept going. Oh well, I love the videos as they really get me thinking and theorizing which I find fun (as clearly shown by my ramblings above). Looking forward to the next one!
Holy shit that's even more sad for Malenia than I initially thought.
It had crossed my mind that Mohg tricked Miquella and Malenia into sending the latter out to fight Radahn.
She’s awaiting his return. She’s not seeking him out because she believes he will be back
Your thoughts are gold and I applaud them.
I got the impression that when Malenia wakes up to fight you, she had been sleeping since she fought Radahn, so your theory would answer how Mohg managed to take him from the heavily guarded haligtree without waking her up.
Just wanted to point out a little mistake: Radahn did already have his Great Rune during his fight with Morgott. The battles of the Shattering were after the demigods obtained their runes, so if Radahn grew in size after his fight with Morgott, it wasn't for that reason
Or he was midway through the sizes?
Vaati says that the portrait of Radahn is a normal sized person but it’s pretty hard to tell without anything for reference in the painting
@KimJongPhil can't be, he's already massive in his fight with malenia
@@KimJongPhilRadahn is already huge in the cinematic of him qnd Malenia fighting.
I think making himself lighter with gravity magic made him grow bigger as he would be less affected by the planet's gravity. Kinda like how the astronauts staying in the international space station get taller.. only this is the over the top fantasy version of it.
I know this video is out dated but it real helps you figure out the lore of the dlc and how it connects. Like the march to cailed he didn’t know why she did it but now that the dlc happened it’s very clear why .
The scarlet blooms being nurtured by betrayal suggesting a possible betrayal by Miquella... goddamnit. That's too good. It hurts SO BAD but I think that lines up with the themes way too well and has an incredibly decent chance of happening in the DLC. Or suggested it would have if we learn Miquella's intentions turned, or were always, deceitful.
Her first bloom against Radahn had nothing to do with betrayal. It was a bog standard fight. We also don't betray her when we fight her. Also a bog standard fight. There's far too much speculation in these comments for the limited information we have. At least Vaati admits when the information doesn't perfectly line up. No, it's not suggested nor even hinted at that miquella betrayed malenia. It wouldn't even make narrative sense
Where is the betrayal when the Tarnished fights her? That point does not add up bro
@@gamersreactions9267This comment is made under the assumption that malenia has only bloomed twice. Then the 3rd could possibly be from Miquella in the future maybe in the dlc, thus making her 3rd bloom more vivid by his betrayal.
What if we have the option to fight Miquella at some point in the DLC, and then if you kill him the Millenia fight has a third phase... with three times the HP and poise :D
Just noticed this: the Mushroom Crown item looks an awful lot like the Xanthous Crown, even more interesting is where the Xanthous Crown was found in previous Souls games.
-Jeremiah in the Painted World of Ariamis in DS1 (a world with signs of rot in it)
-Yellowfinger Haysel in the Farron Keep in DS3 (a rotten swamp)
This is the legacy of the Xanthous Crown
and in demon souls, the og crown would take possession of an character so you could look at it like a sort of mental rot
@@Gensolink literal brainrot
Yellowfinger Heysel
@@Gensolink Scarlet rot heavily affects the mind, this fits surprisingly well lol
ER is a prequel to dark souls confirmed
I got pretty emotional around the part where you're explaining milenia and why her move is called the waterfowl dance, all powerful stuff man. This river runs deep in this game and I love it to pieces
34:46 miquella awaits thee o promised consort
Just a little thing about the marais part. Marais (pronounced "mare") is a french word that means "swamp". I havent read anything about it, but in my opinion they take their name from the lake of rot or the swamp of aeonia, which emphasis their fascination for Malenia.
(Sorry if I made mistakes, english isnt my first language)
Their castle also stands in the middle of a poisoned swamp
A few thoughts:
The amber starlight is also used to create an incredibly powerful sleep potion. Which is yet another symbol of miquella and saint Trina being one and the same.
And 2: if I recall correctly the alabaster and onyx lord only do either push or pull gravity magic, but not both. So regarding the two different learning periods, it's possible he learned from different lords. There's one imprisoned behind the carian royal manor. I wonder if he's one of those teachers that ranni imprisoned? We know she has a tendency to do so, because she imprisoned the black knife ring leader.
I see Malenia battling Radhan because it was the only way to access Moghwyn Palace to save Miquella. Radhan's boss arena is just above Moghwyn Palace, but Radhan holding on the stars and defending Sellia (probably combined with his great rune power that makes his skin burn in a way, and probably making him more feral) didn't leave a choice for much negotiation, giving lead to a battle of who wanted to accomplish their duty the most
I dunno, there's a waygate in Consecrated Snowfield which leads straight to Mohgwyn palace which seems like a much more effecient way if she was going straight to Miquella.
@@custardpup6385I always assumed this waygate was built by the Mogwyn dynasty and kept covert, that's why it's in a random corner of a pretty inhospitable region and guarded by bloody phantom
@@iissacc exactly
32:10 now we know Malenia and Miquella actually wanted Radhan dead. But not exactly because they wanted the stars to keep moving.
It's always a treat when Vaati uploads, especially on a weekend when I can sit down and enjoy the lore with no distractions. Can't wait for Shadow of the Erdtree! 😁🔥
Amen brother amen
Boss, stop playing Elden Ring. Diamond Dogs needs you!
@@arsy9753
No worries, my friend! I invited the Mother Base personnel to practice against Malenia while I watch the fight as a summon 😎
On the note about “stagnant water leads to decay” in the blue cloth set, I think this relates directly why Marika shattered the elden ring in the first place.
It seemed almost motiveless and random since everyone else in the game seemed to have pretty strong trust in the golden order, but ALL of marika’s children have been cast outside of the golden order in one way or another (Morgott and Mohg with remnants of the crucible, and Malenia under the influence of the Rot God, and Godwyn who would come to live in death)
The reason it might have been Marika’s fault that these things happen I think can be traced back to the stagnation. Marika prevented the cycle of life and death by instituting her golden order, and as a result Malenia and Miquella are stuck at different points in the cycle of life and death. Miquella will never grow old, and Malenia will constantly decay. I think this is because Marika put the flow of life into a stagnant state
I don’t know how every demigod fits in to the equation but this is my theory on why marika shattered the elden ring in the first place
I'm glad you said this, I've been on this tip for a bit too, nicr to see it confirmed. Stagnation and decay caused by a refusal to let the world move forward is a running theme in Miyazaki's work, and frankly rings true to the zeitgeist. The world beyond change, beyond ideology that was declared in the 90's has, in many ways just stayed the same except for slowly, ever so slowly, getting worse. Not to read too much real life into the fantasy game, but slow decay seems to be a theme of the modern era, which echoes across a lot of art that has come out since it became perceptible. I think the feeling of this is why this theme is often so resonant for people, the feeling is in the air, and art always reflects life.
54:22 "Personally, I'd be down for that fight if she rises again with her lower half as a scorpion, or something"
Goddamn, Vaati called that so hard, even if it wasn't Malenia.
I had never considered that Malenia might be gearing up for a comeback and now I can just hear her phase 2 intro lines and music repeating in my head.
You will witness true horror indeed.
@@michaelhagen8537 They kinda reserve ''God'' for Outer Gods. Malenia and Maliketh are both Gods, yet do not give that message upon death, which is ironic since Maliketh dubs himself a God in cut dialogue (still in the game, just without a trigger currently), and Malenia is called the GODdess of Rot.
@@TheStraightestWhitest Pretty sure there is no dialogue or even any in game reference to Maliketh being a god. The guy's awesome, and is dubbed what demigods feared, but never a god. He's only the shadow of a god, it'd be like calling Blaidd a demigod due to his relation to Ranni.
@@TheStraightestWhitest Malekith is a shadow just like Blaidd is a shadow to Ranni. Malenia was still considered a demigod even after her "bloom" which supports that it may only be the 2nd bloom. Marika/Radagon and the Elden Beast are the only ones called a god so far.
@@theworstcatholic7247 I think there is cut content of Maliketh basically referring to himself as one of the Gods. There is a youtube video of all Maliketh's cut dialogue that I think he says it.
New Vaati video while having a rough day… I needed this. Thanks my dude.
I hope your day vastly improves
Same my bro. Stay strong.
I'm sorry to hear that! I hope things get better, but maybe the video can serve as a good distraction until then 🙏
15:10 "this is why Malenia recovers health by attacking during her boss fight" I like to imagine FromSoftware added that to troll the players, appreciate your quality content
Oh here’s the boss with impressive mechanics and hard to dodge combos. But not yet, she also heals on hit. But not yet, her heal goes through shield block. But not yet, she has a total of 38k hp in her 2 phases. But not yet, her 2nd phase chases your ass down and leaves you near 0 chance to heal.
@@MaidenlessScrub Get gud lul
@@MammalianCreature kind of agree, shes not the best designed boss
@@MammalianCreature she’s actually my favourite boss in the game. She might think that she’s abusing me, but I’m a masochist
@@MaidenlessScrub Same. She's how I measure how good my build is, usually. If I can beat her within five tries, the build is decent. If I can't, I've got to scrap the build because it's worthless.
Watching this now after DLC, it's impressive how close you came to the reason behind the battle between Malenia and Radahn, without knowing the storyline in DLC
Such quality in your work. Each time, it's rediscovering the game. I went through missing all of this. It's impressive how deep the story has been built and with so much details, it's really amazing.
The Radahn fight was and still is one of the most epic things I've ever experienced in a game. It was a full-blown war, running towards him with all of those characters. I was struck with awe. The awe, which cannot be put into words.
Once you learn his attacks, it’s a pretty fun fight 1v1
@@LittleCaesars777 Yep, and a short one at that!
Really hindered by the bowspam ehich begins the fight and how stupid he looks on that horse
You need to get out more man... It wasn't that amazing.
@@Ryan-gw3yv it was pretty fuggin epic. Maybe let folks enjoy stuff instead of being a miserable 💩.
Elden Ring is a very epic game. That's literally the point Miyazaki had when designing it. I can think of few (if any) other games that I've played over the last 20+ years that have had as amazing highpoints or made you truly feel like you were on an epic adventure in the same ways ER does.