The most insane Low Mythic+ Pug Key Chat you will ever see...
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
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Fun fact, that paladin is on my block list for this exact reason. Unsure of key level, but his note on my list says "doesn't dispel afflicted."
Rofl well he is consistent in that at least!
This guy is from my server, so that makes me sad. I kinda want to just talk with the person so that I can maybe explain the afffix to him.
@@jere_____ see what he says!
@luxumbra69 Update: I chatted with the guy. He really thought it wasn't something he could do. He did learn though (before I even talked with him), so if you are in for second chances, you might take him off your list if you feel up for it.
@@heythereguysitsMetro He said he found out he was wrong after they pointed it out (he didn't say the source of it, I assume one of his friends maybe confirmed). I told him I thought they were overzealous in the way the communicated it, to which he told me " well...they were correct" and went on to say he should have known but that he insisted and was wrong. He was really nice when we chatted.
"oh come on dude just take the pally he's 2.9k rating"
"he cant be that bad"
"can he?"
Rofl
Poison tótem clears both ghosts
Unfortunate for the shaman haha
It's only up for every other set of afflicted I've been told tho
He is probably not running poison cleansing totem.
Thought this was common knowledge for high players
Aren't most dispells 8s cd? Because that is short enough to get both
Lmao, my face hurts from smiling/ laughing. This is such a good example of why you should never talk besides maybe some general strategy at the start. Like you said, if the pali never responded, regardless of the shaman's complaining, the key would have finished in time. Took this season off, so it's nice that I get to still watch these moments, keep em' comin!
Ya legit. Not even a single death when it blows up.
Great Video! I'm pretty sure that the shaman was partied with one of the priests, I don't remember who was in the party when i joined it. Thank you for the tip on trees, I always tend to only grab one set of trees and have everyone use the AoE to grab the rest. I will 100% be changing that come higher keys. It is also good to see the other comments about the Shaman totem. I would of have no idea that poison totem can deal with the affix. Thank you guys.
Great submission. Gonna go down as one of the best of the season for sure. Maybe of the expansion!
this tank is totally noob btw
@@raymondrikimaru6541 do you feel like there are a lot of pro players doing a 5?
@@heythereguysitsMetro just trolling haha this guy is the tank in my m+ group :)
It’s an optional talent for all parties except for the healer. Maybe none of the other people took the talent after inspecting that the paladin has cleanse toxin? That would be an insane thing to do in a pug, I’m taking my dispel during a pug with that affix if I can take a dispel no matter who I am
Well its possible they don't have it, but they shouldn't then be shouting at the paladin to help with it. Let's hope that's not whats happening here haha
Its optional for healers aswell, the spirits cannot be dispelled with a magic dispell so priest MD and warlock imp dispell do not work
Not for the paladin. No matter what spec you are, you always take the poison cleanse which works for affix.
@@heythereguysitsMetro yeah, another example of why it pays to not talk sometimes haha. Best thing is just communicate it once, maybe twice if you think they missed it or didn’t see it and then drop it after that and figure it out. There’s a million ways to take care of a dungeon
3100 rdruid last season doing only pugs. I generally didn't say anything about affixes once I was doing 18+ as I expected people to understand them by that level. Of course, this was hardly the case and people up to about 23's would make similar mistakes as people did in 10's. I could tell some people didn't know what to do with Afflicted and Incorporeal and/or relied on others to take care of it. 80% of the time at least one person in the group would help and if nobody did and it was affecting our run, I'd just leave because I didn't want to explain those things to people in keys over 18 or so just as I wouldn't want someone telling me how to play my class "because they have an alt druid" (I'd always appreciate constructive criticism though). I can totally understand how someone 2900 rated as a ret could make it that far without knowing that affix which only happens every so often anyways (2 weeks of the 10 week cycle). He also could have had a brain fart and confused the capability of his abilities which has embarrassingly happened to me before (once in a 19 or 20 I was swearing to everyone adaptive swarm didn't have a cooldown before- which makes absolutely no sense).
Hmm no need to give him a pass. This is simply unacceptable, and evidence something needed to change here. Glad it did!
As a healer I'd specifically call out individuals and the ability they can use to help with certain affixes. I would just call it out in chat when I needed help if I could not solo them
I've allways made it a competion for myself if I can do the affix to try to dispell more of them than the healer.
Last season as enhance it was pretty much just me and the healer dealing with it in every key right up to +25s. But enhance it's very easy, decurse macro and totem.
Yes poison totem clears both of them but the issue is the long cd on that totem and another group of afflicted can pop out before the cd is up
Good thing is though, if there is 1, you wouldn't need it. So you just need to get a bit lucky with spawns right?
@@heythereguysitsMetro Yeah basically need to pray for good rng in handling that affix as shaman but thankfully you can still heal them as any shaman spec.
Two talents we don't take in raid- improved purify spirit and poison cleansing totem. We take all these for afflicted and can generally manage afflicted unless we are using our cleanse and then we can handle every other one.
Yup
I've been pugging a lot of low keys recently and I felt like the biggest shitshows happened around +5- +6. Met a tank who kept running out of melee range on Nokhud 2nd boss which caused him to die all the time. We still timed the key with 1 minute left but we wasted a lot of time not only on 2nd boss but also on killing mobs that didn't give % and so on.. On +2 you can probably get away with these mistakes but on 5-6 it does get highlighted if you don't know what you are doing.
The 5 keys are the worst for sure. Record them and send them in if it's happening to you too!
As others mentioned, poison cleansing totem gets them but with longer cooldown, but if I'm remembering correctly every other time they spawn the shaman can get both. I run with a shaman sometimes and every second spawn she clears both.
This is correct.
I haven't properly played shaman in a long while (like not at all in Dragonflight), but a shaman can just use PCT, and if they don't get both, they can use (Improved) Purify Spirit to get the other one. Every class in this game that has a healer spec has a dispel of some sort (and all of them work on Afflicted).
thanks!
Thank you for pointing out how some people really do not know their class or the dungeon or the affix.
No shortage of that here.
Poison cleansing totem can dispel both affilcted yes
Ya by now I got that confirmation haha
I’m just picturing this guy running to the entrance of the dungeon with steam coming out his ears 😂
haha
The afflicted can get healed by random AoE heal, so when you see them getting healed but not fully, it's most likely because some random AoE heals are doing their job but it's not enough, and the healer is not actually focus healing them.
Oh ya? Surprised to hear that. Figured it would be immune to aoe like incorporeal.
Disc is actually prime for this aswell as radiance can hit them causing your main healing to heal them (most likely what happened on the boss)
If it helps at all, I talked with the dude (we are same server) and he already figured out his mistake and owned it. So he was able to figure it out. He really didn't know.
Saw your comment and replied in the other string. Glad to hear he takes ownership of it, but it does worry me that it took him so long and needed this confrontation to figure it out.
This is why you have to babysit pugs before they key look at their talents and tell them what to do. If they feel offended and leave, good.
Ya sadly.
The main problem is that dpsers barely have any responsibilities in keys unless you are pushing high keys. As long as they know their icy veins dps rotation and interrupt some random stuff here and there they can easily get to the 3k score range if other party members pick up their slack.
That's a huge part of it for sure. But they do have responsibility. They just don't care to do it so some one else has to pick up the slack.
It's absolutely incredible how this escalated, the egos / immaturity is just crazy.
IMHO, and this is probably not the majority opinion, anyone who plays a class that can deal with an affix not bringing that tool to do the job is failing at their job plain and simple. If you're a shaman and you don't bring poison cleanse totem then you're trolling, if you're a pally and don't bring cleanse you're also trolling. That's why I play a hybrid class in the first place, so I can help the group out where necessary (eg. LoH when someone is low, Freedom when someone is bound), Blizzard gives us the tool so stop with the attitude of "everything being a healer affix" and do your bloody job.
I agree, classes in wow have all these buttons and talents for a reason
I agree, in a pug, everyone should be trying to do it.
But realistically, it only takes 2 spells from any of the four players, so no real need to be disbanding keys over it.
@heythereguysitsMetro totally, there was so many ways that affix could have been dealt with. It boggles my mind
Healer in weekly PUG keys is miserable. Trying to dispel normal mechanics, dispel 1 affix, heal the 2nd affix, and keep everyone alive is too much and no-one wants to help with afflicted and then they blame the healer if it goes off. Meanwhile people are missing kicks, stops, standing in swirlies, standing in frontals. I stopped doing keys and I'm playing Cata Classic and it's actually been a blast so far.
Whatever you find fun! You can honestly just ignore the affix at this level. Not really worth quitting over.
what happened is that those 2 dpses were dispelling and noticing pally isn't so they asked him to chip in, whey he refused they start kind of ignoring the mechanic
Ego is what happened haha
a lot of new players seem to gravitate towards ret I've noticed while running low keys on my alts. They usually don't have interrupt key bound let alone a dispel on an afflicted week.
It's just too easy to play well.
There's a good reason why Paladins are clowned on.
As a healer main since legion, i can totally understand this shaman. There is nothing more frustrating than people who dont help with the affixes. There is an expectation that the healer will deal with everything. Its a high stress role, and more is added if people dont do their part. Dps is by far the easiest role, having played one. Ive left many keys for people not doing the basics such as dispells/clense as im doing going through 30mins of torture for lazy people who cant be bothered who wont do what they are supposed to do.
The shaman is not the healer and is the most capable to get the affix in the comp.
Fun fact and tip: If you don’t group or invite Ragnaros and Azralon you will be instant 3K io.
Idk 3k is extremely low nowadays
@@caroqt I meant it as a bare minimum you can reach lol
Sadly there are too many of them to avoid now-a-days.
Quel'thelas and gallywix can be added to the list too
I was healing a 21 DHT (needs lots of dispels). I had an arcane mage tell me, why are you pestering me with healer affixes. I stopped pugging soon after.
Haha the solution there is to record them and send them in instead!
Wonder if the Pala is a bought character - if they were doing 22s last season and don’t know what they’re doing now, it seems a bit suspect
I don't think that's a common enough thing to see tbh. Some one buying a character is usually something WORTH buying.
Even if it was though, surely the guy wasn't playing 2 months ago then decided to sell and get it all done in this time right?
In regards to the thing about last season being way to easy for io, do you think last season was easier than this season? I've had a lot more success this season and kind of just attributed it to the new scaling and not improvement. In reality its probably a bit of both, but would be curious to know what you think about the ease of this season with the number squish/affixes being pushed to higher keys.
This season is considerably harder than last with no question in my eyes. It should be the easiest because it has all returning dungeons too.
People have just given up I suppose.
Just got back to doing keys on my shaman this season. Thankfully my guild is fairly active and pushing keys, because pugging has been rough. I was solo pugging a lot of keys the first few weeks to catch up on iLvl before joining in on guild runs, and man there are a lot of high rated players from last season who are completely unaware of a lot of the mechanics and affixes.
Ya sadly last season was absurdly easy so a lot of people just got free boosts.
I had a boomkin in a neltharion's lair just get hit by every single mechanic...i mean actually every mechanic that could be stood in and killed by, he was doing it. it was a +20 and the dude had 2500 io. I didn't think it was possible but yes, people can be that bad.
You mean in season 2?
Either way 2500 in a 20 is really low.
6:00-6:30 is the perfect highlight for the intro's context lol
Absolutely perfect.
poi totem dispels one when you summon it first time, then it needs another tick to dispel second ghost.
Thanks for clarifying!
A healer should *never* have to fully heal an afflicted because the rest of the party wont do their jobs and dispell afflicted, and theres plenty of pulls where the healer wants to save their dispell for something inside the pull rather than the afflicted. Dispelling Afflicted is everyone's responsibility and Ret Paladin's not using Cleanse Toxin should be an insta kick.
Do you kick him and disband the key or do you just let some go out here and there and get the easy upgrade?
Think carefully.
@@heythereguysitsMetro DPS being unwilling to dispell or cc during afflicted or awakened is unfortunately such a common occurrence that you check their talents and have them acknowledge they understand their role is to help before the key actually starts. This healer is 100% right to be livid. frankly if the other dps are helping dispell but just not the paladin they should be annoyed at him too, because he is ignoring his share of the responsibilities in order to mindlessly tunnel dps instead of doing his fair share. Especially as a melee he's not having to interrupt a cast and has downtime gcd built into his rotation that allow him to dispell with less loss than the priests or shaman.
@@Quiet_9 preach
the Pally is obviously one of those that has a simple tunnel vision.. "must top DPS...must top DPS" nothing else matters.. must top DPS
I wouldn't say that. He genuinely doesn't know something ultra basic. That's far worse than tunnel vision.
I wanna say the other people are the same because they also didn't take dispels even when they could. No one is right in this situation
The ironic thing about this entire debacle, is that the affix going off doesn't even matter at this key level.
The paladin was right in saying "Stop talking and play the game".
But was also wrong because paladins can dispel the affix.
Being 2900 means nothing in S4.
In S4 of Dragonflight if you are not at least 3200+ rated you're just not as good as you think you are.
Ya if he only said "stop talking" and nothing else, this would be an ENTIRELY different video haha
Poison cleanse totem will get both if they are close together, but 45s cooldown means you can do about every other.
If I can cleanse on my paladin while tanking, healing, or DPSing there is no excuse for this chudwa. Or the priests.
If the shaman dispells one and heals the other, he's not healing party members.
Thanks for confirming!
this dude aint touching that shieldblock, literally makes your shield slam do more dmg too XDD
Not great.
Poison totem can get both afflicted but can only happen every other time because of totem cd. Please keep in mind the shaman may dispel a mechanic and will not have a dispel readily available when the totem is on cd.
There are no mechanics there he can dispel right? All magic at that point.
@@heythereguysitsMetro You mean the shaman? Yes, the shaman has other things to dispel in Azure Vaults so he may not have it available to dispel the afflicted. This means it is extremely helpful if one of the other dps can assist in dispelling the afflicted. Many times when I have to heal in a pug, I have to choose to not dispel debuffs in the dungeons so as to make sure I have my dispel available for the afflicted. A shaman can use poison totem for every other afflicted not every spawn of afflicted.
@@gpm135 what are some examples of things shaman DPS can dispel on that dungeon?
@@heythereguysitsMetro Here are some of the examples of things the shaman can dispel in Azure Vaults and yes , when I am on my shaman and in a pug , I have dispelled all of these at some time or another. Some groups are better at cc's and interrupts which help mitigate these debuffs. Right from the get go from the entrance, to hallway to first boss room to hallway to second platform to 2nd boss room, third boss and 4th boss all have debuffs a shaman can dispel. Here are some of names of the debuffs: 1. Mystic Vapors 2. Erractic Growth 3. Waking Bane 4. Crystalline Rupture 5. Forbidden Knowledge 6. Icy Bindings 7. Absolute Zero 8. Dragon Strike
@@heythereguysitsMetro The entire instance of Azure Vaults from the entrance to hallways to every platform to every boss room have debuffs that can be dispelled as a resto shaman. Example deubuffs: 1. Mystic Vapors 2. Erractic Growth 3. Waking Bane 4. Crystalline Rupture 5. Forbidden Knowledge 6. Icy Bindings 7. Absolute Zero 8. Dragon Strike.
The key squish was the best thing to ever happen to wow M+. Players who accidentally hit 3K IO are struggling in 5's like this pally. Thank you Blizzard for keeping them where they belong.
Yup, totally agree.
word of glory from ret pal would likely heal the afflicted even if he didn't take his cleanse.
yes. when i get in parties and the healer is stressed I will take care of both souls . literally non issue.
He isn't holy bro. He doesn't have any heals...
Pugging has become its own affix ... "Pugging: Party-wide communication reduced to almost zero and at least one or more of your party members is inflicted by raging, toxic douche baggery". Seriously though, I get the convenience of pugging (at least for some classes/roles), but with how common negative experiences have become and how many people complain about pugs, you'd think more people would put in an effort to find friendly groups of like-minded players whether through guilds, forums, etc.
It's really the hardest affix there is too. It makes people behave in a manner totally counterproductive to success.
This video really shows that clearly. They don't even have a single death when this blows up. Really silly.
What boggles my mind is how much utility they have in their composition to deal with the affix.
- 2x Purify
- 1x Cleanse Toxins
- 1x Poison Cleanse Totem (Yes, PCT can deal with Afflicted. Every kind of dispel except Magic dispels works)
- 1x Purify Spirit (if the Shammy is talented into Improved Purify Spirit)
On top of that things are going fine. Yes, there are some afflicteds that are going off, but not a single player died to anything. They're killing bosses and not dying, they're gucci!
Where it goes wrong, in my opinion, is people are talking/blaming too much. Just play the game and blast that key.
Yes, the Paladin might not be dispelling the Afflicteds, but with 5 possible ways to dispel them (and that's not even including healing them to full) this shouldn't even matter.
100 percent agreed. My exact thoughts here!
Pal got boostet a few times, there is now way he playd it by himself.
Raiderio says otherwise unless he is finding people his own score to do the boosting haha
@@heythereguysitsMetro I call these "unpaid boosts". these guys are dps players that just slam their faces into keys until they luck into a group that can 4 man the dungeon with them basically following along and contributing nothing but whatever dps they can muster. they arent pulling their weight, but the IO goes up over time. just because they fail 7/10 keys because they dont/cant contribute, doesnt mean they cant just get into groups and be hard carried on accident. but its like you say, the game is telling them they are successful. the game rewards this behavior with IO points and they keep climbing (albeit slowly, and not to the tippy top).
@@87cigs Ya the game rewarding it is the part that worries me. Glad we are taking steps towards fixing that this season at least.
just checked verything he did last saison, this pal is 100% boostet. In every grp on 20+ he got a minimum io in the grp whit 3200+ Sometimes even 3500+ This Pal is 100% boostet whit gold or irl money.
Also the fact that he got a 22 whit plate stack and 2 pals in grp. Big NOPE.
This dude went strait on my Blocklist so he cant even q in my keys.
Yeah I agree with "This is not what M+ is supposed to be." It's going to painful trying to get people to realize that, yeah, you actually have to play and learn to succeed, but it will be worth it in the long run.
Uncomfortable for sure. But ya more people need to realize this and quick.
Shaman's PCT can get every other set (there could be a way you could get every set by speccing the talent that lets you recall totems and reset cooldown but not sure). It's annoying when healers expect you to get every set.
There isn't always two spawn either right? So you can probably use it when there are two and then if you get lucky you won't have two spawn again until it's up?
It's a disc priest. Power Word: Radiance can hit the Afflicted and give them Atonement and can be healed completely unintentionally. Also, pally can sacrifice a little DPS and solo the affix because WoG can one shot the affix. Shaman can solo every other set with the cleansing poison totem.
Power word life on one ghost and a cleanse will do the trick too if you don't want to burn a radiance
They CAN. They aren't though, and they talk about it a LOT. That's why its a video. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
The fact the shaman kept yelling at the pally when if he stopped typing for a second he could have been the one helping dispell lmao
It’s about sending the message lol success doesn’t matter
Right, that's particularly frustrating to know that this guy could be getting most of them alone.
Yeah that pally is a mega baby, the priests and the Azralon shaman got too butt hurt about him not doing it as well though since they could've easily handled it themselves. These videos always manage to astound me man lmao
Its really weird to see an affix go off and TWO players who failed to get one affix then blame a third lol
i ran pretty high keys in BFA and somewhat in shadowlands and coming back in season 4 DF, im basically the skill level of a mount collector. It all goes out the window if you miss a few seasons. but im pretty humble about it atleast
Plenty of resources to learn from now-a-days. If you have any questions, let me know! This is the place to learn!
Too bad the Waking Shore didn't say anything about dispelling in the tutorial, the poor pally just wants to play the game and not push buttons. :(
You shouldn't give approval to someone who doesn't want to adapt to the weekly affixes, but also do the weekly affixes, as a team. He should play on his own server. IK metro said you should just play the game its not wiping us but I saw the healer die to Mystic Vapor stacks at the beginning and already lost faith in CC and dispells from the team. DO NOT give the pally any kind of approval. He needs to adapt and get good LOL. Take a dispel ffs its literally an affix and he chose NOT to take it LMFAO
The thing I'm talking about is simply how the affix can be handled without him having it. It's a team after all. Four people have the ability to do it. Only two every truly need to act. Some times one.
So railing on the paladin is just an ego thing.
when i was last doing ret pall they can cleans his self but not others i main holy most of the time . but yea they should have all been dealing with it too
Cleanse can be used on any target. Always been that way.
he probably thinks blessing of sacrifice is his defensive and makes the target take _his_ damage
haha
In my case, I always forget mechanics because I only play 3 weeks per season to get keystone master and unsub. In terms of skill knowledge I think that depends on how long they've been playing that class, maybe they are trying out a different class on the new season and getting their feet wet with it in low keys
Not in this case, no.
Sometime you out of position or healer is about to go through a pressure point and needs the globals if everyone pitches in is a better xp. That pally prob never used hop or lay on hands in m plus might as well play a rogue.
I imagine a lot of people playing ret did play rogue or dh in the past when ret was awful. Never used to playing something with more support utility.
Problem really is: You've got muppets like that in 13 to 14s now. 3000 score, yet no clue what dispells, even interrupts and stops are. Blaming everybody but themselves. It's tragic...
Ya sadly its not going away entirely.
People got too used to VDH soloing all the stops.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Only goes to show VDH can NOT be the S tier tank ever. Not as long as they can chains sigils that way. They need the nerf bat Lucille-style...
The guy obviously doesnt know what's going on with the affix, but like you say it hasnt mattered. if it looks like it's starting to matter then clear, unemotional, short instructions are best. "player use >the right spell< on the affix please."
in general though, my keys go way way better when no one says a word. even if theres a wipe and no one says anything thats generally a sign that the key will be successful. this season in particular I've felt that progress through the 12-14 key range is going to be more defined by ..... basically personality stuff..... rather than game play issues.
I'd love for people to just stay in their lane and do their job. I'll take 3 dps with 45% logs who keep quite and broadly do their jobs every time. the little optimisations people get super hung up about (this is slightly off topic now I guess - you do need to play the affix...) are just not that impactful.
Signed, a tank player getting buned out with "characterful players". (even though my keys are going well this season.this stuff is so annoying!)
Totally agree about the chatter.
Its non-productive at BEST.
The paladin won't dispel i believe for the following reasons
1. He's not setup to see debuffs and doesn't want to setup to dispel cause he believes as a dps it's not his job
2. He's not spec'd into cleanse
3. Won't dispel cause it's a DPS loss and he's a parse bro.
As a paladin you have an insane amount of utility you bring with you to the party. You do great damage and can save lives. But most people treat the class like they are a warrior
He said why he wont do it lol
@@heythereguysitsMetro I'm not sure I'd take his word for it. ..I wrote this comment before people started talking to this guy and he reconsidered which upon reading the.comments is what happened. Most of my experience boils down to those 3 things. So in this instance I was incorrect
this is literally how all the pugs i've been in look like lol
All too common sadly.
Its not uncommon for no one that can handle those afffixs to take the talents for them. Incorporeal and afflicted... its shocking how common it is for people not to do those at all.
I don't doubt that. But this is something else entirely haha
as a retri since years i realized with the retri rework so many new player rerollerd to it, all those FOTM rerolelrs cause with low skill and low ilvl its dmg is still relatively high but they barely know anything about paladin utility. it makes pally become the new hunters. clueless gamers :(
I like the rework gameplay wise and for ret not being paper anymore but the fact that its so popular right now and so many clueless rerollers makes it stand in a bad light
Ya, and a lot of players rerolling from things without this sort of utility, so they aren't taking the time to learn when they can help others.
shamy can solo the affix. if one spawns dispell, otherwise set totem and forget....but be careful on frog boss for exapmple the totem might dispell actuall toxins and not hit the affix
for sure
guys like Njblade are the strongest argument for keeping ret out of the meta
Haha it's certainly very easy to play.
spot the guy who gets carried
All 3 of the dps lmao, somehow none of them are aware they can all dispel. Odd group
Can you get carried in a 5?
May I say I have been that guy, sure I knew my kit. But in my case I learned. It was s2 halls week one like a 17 the dragon debuff, I didn't know could be dispelled with freedom and I was so sure the healer was wrong but I tried and it worked and I learned.
and if you freedom before the cast goes off you dont even get the initial DMG!
Well I would consider that a more advanced strategy.
To not know how the affix works is totally unforgiveable. Its far too basic to not be aware of.
I dont think its the level that forced him to learn but the players
In this case, you are right. They could have just ignored the affix and would have been fine.
Love the videos. I unfortunately lost all interest in pushing keys in retail. As a reward focused player, having my portals already made it not as interesting. But watching these videos let's me enjoy the fun from the sidelines.
Glad to hear you still enjoy watching.
comment to the vid: Maybe its ego, but I think a lot of people who play games, especially mutliplayer, are not playing for the fun of playing. It gets frutstrating fast as you saw and even if nothing happens, ppl are arguing just for the sake of it. I guess thats the internet today.
the second topic: The amount of players my tank, me and a decent healer carried over the last seasons is huge. So they get theyre score without kicking or CCing or playing any mechanic. Some 10's i played this season felt harder than 14-15s, just because ppl dont know what theyre doing. And another thing is, ppl just copying builds from Wowhead or Icy Veins without ever reading their skill tree. So, if the Pala cant "dispell", its just because the Wowhead - Mythic+ Build has not checked that talent. Just Yesterday someone in my Mythic Guild said, its hard to get in Mass Blind on a Pala in a Raid Build. WTF. Just unspecc your +2 sec of Divine Steed and BoS...ignorance is a bliss i guess
Ya, sadly most players don't actually take the time to understand their class, they just read guides and assume there is no wiggle room. We see it a lot!
Funniest thing is the Paladin's raider io says he is rank 8 on his server, lol
Ya sadly server ranks mean nothing now.
He's on a tiny server
As a holy priest main, we can solo the afflicted . Probably the best healer for afflicted weeks other than shamans,
Sure I mean every heal can. They nerfed the amount of healing you need by a lot on these. And I imagine at 5 they need even less, but I don't know that for sure.
@@heythereguysitsMetro we have serenity which is an instant big heal. Only one global while other healing classes are going to need more than one global / cast time
@@leon03k maybe. Idk. They nerfed it pretty hard. Even as dk I can usually get it with two uses now.
But why would you want to waste a serenity on an affix that can be dispelled? Especially on hard boss fights
@@TheFinQ because pugs are unreliable ? As u can see from that season 3 3000 io ret pally
This is why i talk to people before we start keys and give them 1-2 minutes time to answer if they going to help to play affixes. If they not reply i kick them and invite someone else.
Do you feel like that's worth in a key like this where failures don't impact your success rate?
@@heythereguysitsMetro yes and no. But at least people playing affixes. :D
I did watch this video and I understand what you mean about this players score. What I mean is as a tank player do you feel others can carry you to a higher score with the same ease as this paladin was carried? I thought it was kind of silly to say you don’t care about score when you are seeking progression. Maybe score and progression are not the same for everyone, but I think your score is a metric of your personal progression based on the way you play the game. I saw you as someone who cared about score, it was just my observation based on what I’ve seen of you play the game, but I understand the confusion.
Score is just pointless to me, especially when you know me and this paladin can get the same score from the same key if I and him were in the dungeon together.
Its obviously not working well if that is the case, right?
At the end of the day though, I just do keys to get a little better every time I do them, and with that does come score.
But score is not the driving factor to me playing this game in any way.
Its hard to not feel this way though as I have seen so many people abandon reason in the pursuit of it.
@@heythereguysitsMetro I have always wished for a better metric of personal performance in keys and the game in general. I feel it would humble a lot of players and help them understand the game more. And I do understand the stubbornness to put countless hours into staying updated with all the new m+ information. It’s interesting to see the reaction from people when you don’t follow the meta. People get so stuck in their ways they can’t comprehend any other solution.
@@NotBananamanana haha ya blows a lot of minds to know you can succeed multiple ways!
Ya, PST gets both and you could technically get the reset totems talent to use them an extra time
Unlikely that you don't use another totem in between that would take up the charges however in the builds where you take it.
Ya, so this shaman just doesn't have the talent then I suppose.
The affix affects all players so all that can deal with it should do so. However, most groups will rely on the healer but if the healer is struggling to heal for whatever reason then there is no reason why a hybrid class can't heal the ghost. I haven't played disc in a while so I'm not sure how to deal with this other than using dispel on one and then flash heal on the other. As a holy priest, I think it would be easier to deal with.
There is a very good reason why a hybrid class shouldn't heal the ghost.
It's 'cause every single one of them that has a healer spec (and thus can off-heal) already has dispels for Afflicted.
That's why this clip is so strange right? The healer asks for help, and two of the people who can help dogpile on the third person.
Overall i maybe would make 1 comment about asking for help for the afflicted, but when it does not happen i suck it up as the healer. Some afflicted will simply go off. And on a +5 that is for sure not the end. The response of the ret is golden of course. He can solo the afflicted with his dispell and 1 WOG. I am afraid the community talks too much about afflicted as a healer-affix. I have heared and seen more comments people think the afflicted only takes the healer (magic)-dispell.
ya it really just doesn't matter. They could let them go off every set and still be fine.
Weird part is its not even the healer commenting on it after the key starts though haha.
The more I think about it, the more I think its probably more the DPS are miffed they got asked to help, and now taking it out on the ret who isn't helping.
The 2900 dude 100% bought carries lol
I'm not seeing it personally but ya never know.
Hey would you look at that, the priests are back!
Priests are reliably good for a laugh around here!
Ego mechanics are the hardest to do while pugging
100 percent because they don't appear in logical points of difficulty.
These guys didn't even have a single death to this ego mechanic!
Paying for +10s is pretty cheap. You pay $80-100 and you get all +10s. That Paladin paid. I refuse to believe otherwise
He did a lot of keys higher than that with all different people.
@@heythereguysitsMetro That's...unbelievable lol! How the hell does this dude get so many high keys completed? I would love to watch an actual +15 of his from this season
They actually nerfed the hp on the afflicted by a lot, 1 riptide typically can heal a whole afflicted on my shaman
Yup, very easy to heal now.
Ok here’s the crazy thing… cleanse toxins is a talent and therefore must be activated to use it. Now this paladin has cleanse toxins at the moment but I’m not sure if he had it back then. 😅 maybe he using it now after somebody told him. I don’t know 🤷
Me personally as prot paladin that talent is so useful I can’t live without it (literally 🤣🤣😅)
But… I mean, yeah I don’t understand why they were all after the paladin tbh… shaman can dispel, priest can heal or dispel, also it’s a freaking 5…
I’m siding with the paladin tbh… he stayed silent for a bit but after continuous banging on his head he snapped. You all would have done it too, don’t lie.
I certainly sided with him until he started saying the talent didn't work for sure.
The priest might not be able to dispel. Priests need to spend 2 talent points to be able to dispel the affix as they only come baseline with magic dispel which does nothing on these. Disc priest is kinda hurting for points or he just simply forgot. Also, when some of your party already have an atonement buff, using radiance will put one on the affix and thus he will heal the affix up to full by his normal damage rotation
Let's hope that's not the case. Not really able to justify these things if these guys aren't even taking the spell and using it themselves, right?
Its bad enough the dude wont use poison cleansing totem.
I really dont understand why they are only calling the pally out, everyone but the warrior can handle it. People like to make a big deal out of aff and incorp but honestly they are some of the easiest affixes to deal with in the game.
If you have the comp, 100 percent. They have a VERY strong comp for it haha. Really weird stuff.
if u look at the affix 2:52 u can see that someone is trying to dispell the affix. i assume its the priest with only magic dispell ^^ i think all 4 fkd up with affix but tbh even if one is going off all key long u can even time +10 keys with it. but overall the problem in m+ and raid is that ppl are fast with blaming each other instead of explaing stuff and giving tips.
The blaming is really out of control. People even blame others for stuff that isn't even causing issues. Egos are running wild in this game and it comes from the mediocre bunch the most
bro, i would assume he bought the account. No way you do not know how to do affixes if you were clearing 23's
It's possible tbh. I don't know why he was doing 23s 7 weeks ago and is only doing 5 now. But honestly I don't think this is that strange.
@heythereguysitsMetro that's insane that you could do 20 pluses a few weeks ago and have no concept on what u have to do. Lol great video and commentary around it as always
@@dustinsirois4788 thanks! It really is insane and really disappointing that blizzard let the keys be that easy tbh
I could carry 20s easily last session with my havoc dh. I can't tell you how many keys above 20i did where it seemed like I was the only qualified dps lol
I'm sure it was a lot given what I have seen this last year.
i dont even think that this is just a problem in "low keys". last season my brother and i encountered multiple people like that even on 25/26 where they simpley have no idea whats going on. why? idk but what would the solution be? all that i can think of is dividing the people into. let everything up to +10 be via que and stop that at maybe hero track? including the vault and for people who want to push? well make it some kind of oldschool arena team thing which starts at +11? would make pushing prob more fun but then again...how many people would stop playing....tough one to figure out...idk
No easy solution, but mythic+ score needs to stop being a focal point for sure. If there are people able to be this unaware in a higher key, then its a clear indication that the score is not functional towards its original purpose.
Everyone in this group only has themselves to blame. It's afflicted week, you check people's talents. If the shaman isn't talented for totem, you leave the group. There's no surer sign that the people in your group are mouth breathers than if they haven't talented to deal with the affix.
Or just chill out and go upgrade the 5 lol...
The affix is a total non-factor here.
its crazy how some people get io these couple seasons ngl...this week I had a group of 3k io (current season) friends/guildies/whatever that just died on the last boss in ULD. It is a hard boss, yes...BUT people didnt know how to deal with the debuff that would kill you. This group had a prot pala that didnt know freedom removes it and you can freedom someone else, a priest that didnt know that fade removes it, a destro lock that can use the imp to remove it ...and they just flame the random healer. When I went to say something to defend the healer, they kicked me and the priest whispered me to flame like what lol ... I expect people not knowing some mechanics, but for a group with that io and trying a 15 it just not good
Those are the ones you wanna record for sure haha
Tbh I could totally understand how he timed those 20+ without doing the affix.
In higher keys people tend to do the affix instantly - if there were 2 people in his run doing all the affixes already, he didn't have to touch it.
Most afflicted / incorporeal going through I saw in the 10-19 range, not 20+.
Of course the problem of him going to a dungeon with no knowledge about the affixes is still a problem, but I would not say that's impossible to clear 20+ with one player never doing the affix.
Well its not like he only ever did it a single time.
Surely there were keys where he was needed to handle it along the way right?
@@heythereguysitsMetro Not necessarily.
In my experience you just need 1 competent person in addition to the healer as backup to deal with it. As long as you have 2 people that are able to do it and actually doing it, the other 3 can just forget about it.
Whenever I heal, I just solo it unless someone else beats me to it, but there is usually someone that gets the other before I do. Not just at higher keys, but lower ones as well.
You are somewhat unlikely to get a healer that can't solo it AND you being the only one that can help, so I can see how he might never needing to do it, especially at higher levels.
Also, not sure if that is the case here, but I know that many people with high scores get it by running with a set group or their guild. Often this leads to them being used to things being handled by others to the point that they don't even know it's being done, or think that is just how it is. Once they enter a pug where this is not a case and people do things differently with different expectations, it's a major change and they can't deal with it.
Never underestimate how much you can get carried.
@@Rattja trust me I don't after what I have seen haha
And my season 3 keystone hero toon couldn’t get a tank or healer to join my +2 on week 1. Hahaha
At least this season 4 disaster has given me time to play MoP remix and grind out Taivan. Got my Taivan earlier this week and now I am working on my second MoP toon. I haven’t had this much fun in a long time
It's really fun to just play the full game rather than only instances right!?
Boy, he's nearly 3k and doesn't know his cleanse works on the affix, how has he gotten away with being carried all this time and never forced to learn...
But also:
Boy, these other 3 players are sure being unreasonable telling the paladin to pull his weight dispelling, they could've handled it fine among themselves...
Ya, frustrating all around haha
@@heythereguysitsMetro My point was more so that both opposite takes get called silly, while it seems to me that if one of these two is silly... the other isn't.
As ret you can do both cleanses if you are fast on the first add. But you can't explain that to that star player, fml... I mean the whole group seemed filled with class knowledge, but that ret should check himself.
Really weird ego there for sure.
I mean technically the paladin is correct, cleanse toxin is not a dispel it's a poison cleanse which while it works for the affix is not the same as a dispel which affects magic debuffs :P
While some healers can solo afflicted it is preferable to have at least 1 other class that can help (2 if the dungeon itself requires dispelling) as it is a big waste of mana and healing for the healer to heal the ghosts and while the -100% haste penalty is not as bad as the -50% damage and healing penalty from incorp (both of which can stack) it's one of the worst feeling punishments as it doesn't tax your hp it taxes your throughput and slows you down possibly more than just dying would.
Upping the difficulty hasn't fixed anything all it's done is move the metaphorical gate down by x levels. The only way to fix this problem is to implement better learning tools for new players. Something like instead of doing a regular mythic dungeon with no affixes for your first mythic key you'd go through a scenario where you get to experience the different affixes in a series of Boss/add fights (depending on affix) and have someone like Chromie be teaching about each affix and how to deal with it. Then add in a skip feature where anyone who's done a mythic key before can just attain their key by either speaking to an npc or doing a mythic 0 if they choose to instead of having to go through the intro scenario every season :P
Maybe he thinks it's a magic dispel only or something? Ya idk
I think he is disc ... hard cast heals on the afflic
I wouldn't worry about that. More about they way they handle it all.
the IRONy is strong with this one ! xD he should have stayed quiet instead ( @ paladin)
If he did it would be a TOTALLY different video.
His usage of shield block and spell reflect usage is almost aggrevating lol! Dear lord. This affix is a joke with this setup, but it just seems like they've never encountered it before? - I stand corrected. 2.9 io, lol.
Ya that's what's so crazy. He has seen it at a pretty high level haha
Sorry but i have to go with the shamy here. as a mage main i had 34 dispels healer 40 and next one had 4. people don't care about doing afix. people care about pewpew-ing. yes i understand i am talking about 22+ not 5s sure but still people need to learn that m+ is a team gameplay not me me me. help your healer out help your tank and your other teammates.
The team concept is totally lost in pugging for sure.
Priests and Shaman were being dumb, but somehow the paladin came out with the wombo combo ultimate dumb.
Realistically, Ele Shaman doesn't want to grab poison cleanse. It's still something you SHOULD get on afflicted week when you're pugging because of these situations because it handles every other affix proc, but I get it.
But both priests should have disease cleanse. The one who's harping on the paladin the whole time is the shadow priest, who loses nothing in taking it. Alongside that, the Disc priest should prioritize dispelling the other, but if he can't, he's a disc priest he can just penance it at this key level.
That said, 'cleanse toxins isn't a dispel' from someone who's almost 3k rated last season is insane.
Absolutely wild honestly. When I saw this I was blown away.
Yea this is kind of the reason im gettin burnt out on the game myself. Did algethar last week with it and the comp was bear, priest heal, hunter, warrior, and pally (me). Like 3 minutes in on trash with the tree boss the bear just types "pally help with affix" which i always do. I just told them "i am", just a little annoying when they automatically assume you arent doing anything to help. But the rest of the key went fine and we timed though... like i said though it just kind of killed my motivation to play the game this season with all these affixes ruining groups and stuff
These are the ones you wanna record and send in!
@heythereguysitsMetro yea I know I should start. Just never got obs installed and set up is all
@@mikesgamer12 cool well if you have any questions lemme know!
There just must be some tutorial at level 10-20, that explains what is "CC" "AoE" "Dispel" "Diminishing Returns" .... for people who buying accounts and for people with intellectual debuffs. Ah always forgetting that WoW now full of "OverWatch" zoomers.... add them too
The jargon can get confusing, I'm sure. I don't think its confusing enough to be a problem this late in the progression though...
Was S3 M+ really that easy? I took S3 off.
Absolutely.