Agree 100%. That magical blue book paired with B2 Keep on the Borderlands WAS D&D for my friends and me. It transported us to a different world whenever we got together. It's hard to explain to people today how amazing the game felt back then in an analog world!
Couldn’t agree more. Will be making a video about the early D&D experience in the near future. Send us a reminiscence or two if you get a chance either here or through our website. We’d like to hear your early stories.
"Keep on the borderlands" OMG thinking about 1981 I had to go pull that ugly colored book off the shelf. A little worn and aged but complete. I believe i got my first basic set "red book" at or about the same time, and if there are any questions about it...Morgan Ironwolf is a female. She is also a powerful adventurer and leader of an adventuring company "Ironwolf Trading and Adventuring Company" within my campaign along with most of her friends within that book and a number of "red shirts". I believe the players in my campaign were first introduced to long story form World living NPCs through this character in an "assist/npc hero saves the moment role" in The Keep on the Borderlands module as both it and the characters were for the most part complete. I don't think prior to this module and that rulebook with existing npc that I had created my own of either. Morgan Ironwolf without a doubt might be the oldest used NPC in the history of my gaming as a DM. I have "companies" binder with a great deal of detail for this character and her collection of magical items, details of her company and personnel, wealth and land holdings throught the realms.
Wow, yeah. My dad got me the basic set when I was ten. The clerk told us about the chits, and convinced my dad to buy a set of dice at the same time. Never cut out the chits.
Discovered your channel through a post in a Holmes Blue Box FB Community. I'm glad I did. You guys seem to care not just about the game but it's players. I already knew about both these systems. This could have been just another review about Holmes D&D. But what kept me riveted to this review was your love for the actual game(s) and your willingness to share it. Great work!
The Holmes Basic Set was my introduction to D&D. I poured through that book over and over again, I had much of it memorized. I have a an immense amount of nostalgia for it, that cover just gives me the feels every time I see it. However, when it comes to Basic D&D rules, it might be my least favorite ruleset. Despite the fact that it is really just a reworking and rewriting on OD&D, it is still fairly clunky and inconsistent in nature. However, Holmes Basic really put forth the rules organization and presentation that would start to shape D&D Basic rulebooks. With that said, I will absolutely still play OD&D or Holmes Basic. 5e is more complicated and harder to understand than AD&D? I will agree it is more complex than OD&D. B/X, BECMI, but it is not more complex than AD&D. AD&D is not a "rules lite" system but any of older Basic versions were.
5e may be better laid out however it's vastly more complicated. B/X also tried to codify everything as compared to Holmes rules-lite style. All have their place and are good even though really different games and feels.
Aside from nostalgia, the reasoning behind this selection is the same as why I chose White Box to start people out. Once they are used to a class-based system and basic gameplay, I plan to introduce them to either BECMI or AD&D. Every time I watch one of your review videos I have an addition to my wish list.
A friend lent me that here in New Zealand in 1977. I hid in a room and when the school had closed I into the school admin office and photocopied it. A pirate from way back apparently.
This made me laugh because we sneaked into the teachers' lounge at our school to do the exact same thing. BUT, we didn't do it when the school was closed. I think we were all a bunch of pirates back then but you would have been our captain! KYSAF!
@@theoldwarlock When we first started playing we used d6s only and a math book of random numbers. My first polyhedral dice I made out of cardboard. Still have the d4 and a side from the d8.
Yep. That was the edition my first DM used (also in '78), though our group quickly amassed the other rulebooks and supplements, as well. I pored over every detail of that color box cover by David C. Sutherland III, and it drove my imagination for many years as I both played and also ran D&D campaigns. What great days those were! =^[.]^=
I bought that Basic Set when I was a kid along with 2 blister packs of dwarves and 2 blister packs of goblins figuring I could use them to do some little fantasy miniatures skirmishes...when I opened the boxed set and started reading I was totally amazed and blown away and hooked for life. No introduction, no real awareness of the game outside of seeing a few displays in stores just that set to learn how to play, it probably took 6 months or so to get a game together but by 12 I was DMing a monthly game for my dad, a couple of relatives and some of my dad's co-workers.
I had pretty much the same reaction after reading the game. It was a mind altering experience since I'd never seen anything like it before. I still have vivid images in my mind from the first time I read the book.
I was given the Holmes D&D Basic Set - 1st ed, for my birthday. I'd been introduced to D&D through the original D&D 3 booklet rule set (White Box) & also had experience of TSR's Empire of the Petal Throne which used the D&D game system with a few notable difference - skills for instance. The Holmes edition is an excellent introduction to D&D & can be played alone or with purchased modules. The boxed Basic Set my favourite D&D item. The only other TSR RPG rule booklet with as attractive & iconic image is Metamorphosis Alpha.
I was largely the same. Didn't have the 3 book set but those that taught me did. I bought Holmes as my first deep dive into the game and have always loved it. Never got to play EPT but now I'm trying to find a less expensive copy so I can try it out. Also just purchased MA and am looking forward to jumping into it. What better way to waste retirement money?
@@theoldwarlock You can buy inexpensive PDF of EoPT from DriveThruRPG. EOPT & MA are two games with wildly imaginative game settings featuring systems that are simple & flexible.MA has been mashed with D&D and there is an AD&D module - S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks that incorporates MA concepts. Metamorphosis Alpha was later expanded to form basis of Gamma World.
Thanks for making this. Very helpful as this is exactly the product I was trying to find out about. The info clarifies much. But there's not any info about Mystara. Which is what I was mainly looking for. The earliest published material on that campaign setting. Mainly the earliest settings/adventures of D&D in comparison to later settings like Forgotten Realms.
This week I just bought the 1979 Holmes Blue Box Basic D&D set from eBay with the B2 module. I remember looking at the cover in the toy store in 1979. Now I have it in mint condition. I am going to get B1 module next.
A reprint of the Holmes D&D book was included in the TSR Silver Anniversary Collector's Edition box set. Unfortunately, the box set is Really expensive to obtain these days. I was fortunate enough to find a set when it came out. It was cool you guys shared this with the community.
I have heard of Holmes basic because I am a huge fan of Basic but I prefer Moldvey. By the way I am mostly just commenting because I know UA-cam likes user interactions and I want your channel to do well cause you guys are cool.
Thanks for the comment and for taking the time to help us out! Regarding Moldvey, I think most people are more familiar with Moldvey than Holmes. I'd be willing to bet a lot more of the Moldvey sets were sold. One of these days I'm going to go through each one in detail and do a complete comparison. I'm curious to know how distinct the differences are since they're only separated by a few years.
@@smugzoid5156 I have a copy of Swords and Wizardry but have yet to go through it and I haven't seen WBFMAG. We've had several comments on Old School Essentials and I plan to investigate that as well. I'm afraid I'm one of those collectors. Not so much to play but to see what others have done with OSR as well as to support them producing more OSR compatible products. Also "ahem" to steal ideas for my own campaign.
@@theoldwarlock White Box FMAG is a huge improvement on S&W. Great for one-shots if people want a more B/X feel without the extra rules. Blueholme is now my favourite D&D version. It needs more light shone on it. We run a monthly game on Discord as a drop-in game (anyone can play) using the original Holmes adventures.
Update I now own a copy of this book and I also have Old School Essentials and the Rules cyclopedia. There are a lot of minor differences and interpretations between the three so when I am thinking about how I'm going to run my game I consult all three to reach a final ruling.
It's a little scary now thinking that the Holmes book was my gateway drug back in 1980 (I found it on the ground, outside my middle school, and got really confused by the inclusion of the chits), and soon it would be relegated to obscurity. I later got my hands on the original white box set a year or three later. While I was trying to run campaigns with the Holmes book, others in my school started throwing the word "Advanced" around. Sadly, my mother deemed all of the artifacts of the era "worthless trash," and that's where most of them ended. Great retrospective and trip down memory road. Thanks! 🍻
I just picked up a copy of the original Holms blue book! So excited to have find it! I am just afraid to touch it with out gloves, eh! I really want Blue Holms now, and to look into ad&d.
First time I've seen your channel. I have several Old School channels I watch, and yours fits in perfectly. Very good video, and thanks for introducing me to the Blueholme books. Looking for them at the current time. I love that you said that you make lots of characters that die, until you find the "one that sticks." Much more entertaining than having a superhero from the beginning. Looking forward to seeing more from you. Keep up the great work!
If you guys aren't familiar with Basic Fantasy you should look it up. They have free adventures in PDF and books printed at cost. I got lucky and found this box set cheap at a local Con. I enjoy it and the Basic & Expert version of the game (later retro-cloned into Labyrinth Lord and many other games).
That is the first real How to play book. Drive thru RPG has reprints in print on demand. Basic Fantasy and Old school essentials are two other retro clones of the old rules sets. enjoyed the video
Agreed. Some of the best memories I have were figuring out that book in a friend's basement and eating frozen pizzas from the 1970s (makes today's stuff seem gourmet).
The rules of Chainmaile that Dave Arneson started with was actually not known as Chainmaile. It was from the Domesday book and it was the only iteration without fantasy. It also went by a different name, it was from volume five. Everyone assumes it’s the published Chainmaile books that came later. Gary of course continue to center around Chainmaile rules but Arliss and used a different combat center. he based his combat mechanics on his naval combat game because it made more sense than the wargaming. In fact he dropped the chain mill rules within three games due to player revolt. He has long since change the game mechanics by the time he met up with Gary and discussed showing him the game that he had created. And the possibility of publishing with him. Gary of course was very enthused
I sent my sister's family a copy of the 1991 Rules Cyclopedea, but somewhat regretted it -- its a great resource for experienced players or (especially) for dungeon masters, but its way too much to throw at new players like my niece and nephew. The only misgiving I'd have about Blueholme is that it might be confusing to have them learn that when I'm basing the campaign on BECMI.
Have you seen the Old School Essential books from Necrotic Gnome? In particular the Dolmenwood setting or the module books by Gavin Norman? The way the modules are laid out are sooooo good
Why do you guys think 5e is more complicated than AD&D? I am trying to learn AD&D 1e right now and it is...quite a bit to take on. This morning I learned those Latin abbreviations. 5e has a lot going on for sure but I am not sure it's more complicated. Maybe it is, I just don't see it yet. I want to learn AD&D and like it and run it. I'm sick of 5e for other reasons outside of complexity, mainly due to it's silly super hero base player characters. I have gone back and read Basic D&D and I absolutely love it. It is so much better than 5e and is way more simple. Basic got me interested in AD&D and I am finding it logical and I like how it is put together so far, but it is just a lot to take in. If you guys have time to respond, teach me! Peace.
There's a guy who did a series of videos covering most of the AD&D rules, with examples: ua-cam.com/play/PLHjo6M4H09m6rnf5QP-rfH7H_ABfZWHeO.html AD&D is poorly laid out, the writing style can obfuscate the rules, and there are a _ton_ of them. But, a great deal of the rules deal with looking up things in charts and there is basically no character customization outside of getting gear, so there aren't a lot of the complex rules interactions that you can get into with 5e. (Which already massively cut down on the complexity of 3.5.) It's also easy to completely miss rules in AD&D (because it's buried halfway through a paragraph three sections away from the heading that it relates to), and a lot of people simply ignore the clunkier and more poorly written rules (weapon verses armor type adjustments, I'm looking at you!). Finally, a lot of things that are defined by rules in 5e, like skills, are left to the GM's discretion. There are pro's and cons to that, but the AD&D way can certainly seem simpler. So once you get used to playing it, your table's version of the system is usually pretty streamlined and it feels like a pretty simple game.
@@zachklopfleisch8501 the players handbook was simplified for character creation. The game masters guide is a whole other level , the hit modifiers based on armor class, Hirelings, retainers, charisma, etc. add in wilderness adventures, oriental adventures, and it grew quite bloated.
Hey MC! My answer to this question kind of mirrors my own experience. I do get asked this from time to time. First, know that I disagree with the idea that you need to play every rule in a system to keep it balanced, etc. As noted in the video, I started with Holmes basic and learned that back to front. It was easily done because there wasn't much to it. When 1st edition (AD&D) came out, our table saw it more as supplements to Basic than a new game and continued to follow most of the Basic rules and concepts but added in AD&D things that worked with our style of play - and promptly ignored the rest. For people interested in doing things AD&D old school, I now suggest getting a copy of BlueHolme Prentice Rules (it's on drivethrurpg.com - just type in the title and you can download a PDF of it for free). Read those rules (remember it is essentially Holmes Basic) and play just those rules with your players as if it's a new game - forget everything else you know. Stick with it for a few months until you and your table are really familiar with it - it'll be fun. Then, read and add in the Monster Manual. To me that's where the flavor of AD&D comes through. Monsters are dangerous for low level characters and that makes for a thinking game instead of a killing game. After you get to know the monsters, start with the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide and Players Handbook. Read them through starting with the Players Handbook. That was the "supplement" we adopted the most from. It allows you to expand characters beyond Basic and flesh out their skills and abilities. We used/use most of the PH but a lot of it is just reference (for spells and such) for after you have established your characters. The DMs Guide is another beast. Lots of great information in it, but it really complicates things if you try to integrate it all. Some people are all for that - we aren't. We use the combat tables, saving throw tables, and random monster encounter tables for play of the game. Everything else is for occasional reference and even that is primarily limited to the money section, armor section, and treasure section. There's good information throughout the book for special situations (large battles, siege engines, and such), but we have our DMs be in charge, not the rule set so rules used vary for campaign to campaign in how things are dealt with. You could say we're all playing the game in the same language, but there are different accents. This keeps players not knowing exactly how things are going to be from DM to DM and for us that's a good thing. Our DMs also have developed loads of house rules to make the game to their liking and that just comes with time. For my money, the above is all you need. I have all the other AD&D books, and have read them through, but rarely use them aside from Monster Manual II, Fiend Folio, Unearthed Arcana, and Deities and Demigods. Regarding a balanced game, I don't believe in one. Sometimes PCs are in control, other times they're running for their lives - it all comes down to their decisions and what the DM has created for them to experience, not the rules set. The rules are just a framework to keep people on the same page, but the story being made takes up the rest of the book. I hope this helps. AD&D can seem complex but if a rule is tough to understand or it takes away from the flow of the story, toss it. Doing that has never impacted our game. And even Gary Gygax talked at one point about using whatever rules work for you. One of my favorite quotes from the man is, "The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." I hope this helps. Feel free to ask questions.
@@theoldwarlock Thanks for this detailed answer. I have read through a pdf of the PBH and ordered the 3 core books from DTrpg.The PBH was not too complicated, just a lot of info to contend with. I know the DMG will be even more so. What are your thoughts on Unearthed Arcana? I am thinking of getting it too but might skip it. I also ordered Tomb of Horrors, Ravenloft, and Dwellers of the Forbidden City in print. Any module recommendations? I already like Basic D&D and what I have read of AD&D more than 5e. 5e is great but I don't enjoy my players being semi deities at level 4. I'm in my late 30's and did not play D&D as a kid. I feel like I missed out on something that was invented for me in the prime time to play...so I am making up for lost time. What is a word for a nostalgia you did not experience lol? Old school D&D is my absolute favorite hobby and I got into less than a month ago.
@@zachklopfleisch8501 Makes sense. Yea after reading through the PBH over the weekend I noticed what you are saying about a specific rule being buried in the text. This will come back to bite me. I don't have a great memory and will have to constantly check the rules. I like to play RAW and this is my goal for this game...just to see if I can do it. Once I am satisfied I will probably chop some of the more cumbersome bits. Thanks for the reply!
Just found your channel, and I really enjoy the enthusiasm and level of knowledge you guys have in regards to original and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. Consider me a fan. Out of curiosity, have you guys heard of Basic Fantasy Role-playing, Old School Essentials, OSRIC, etc?
Thanks very much for your comments. I hope we can create more content you'll enjoy. As to your questions, I'm very familiar with OSRIC which is fantastic for many reasons. It was, of course, one of the first OSR rule sets I came across when I started searching such things out. Old School Essentials I know of, but have yet to actually purchase. Basic Fantasy RPG I had not heard of but looked up before this reply. Thanks for putting me on to it! I'm amazed at the number of languages it's been translated into, etc. I'm excited to get copies of that, too. I'm always happy to find and purchase new OSR items (New OSR - does that sound odd?) just, if nothing else, to support the people who are putting effort into OSR in the hope they'll continue to do so. Our system is basically OSRIC with our own rules tossed in along with a lot we've brought over from Holmes Basic. But we've pillaged other rules when it's suited us. Again, thanks for bringing new stuff to our attention. I think we're gaining much more knowledge than we're imparting. With Best Regards-
Very interested in whether you have come across a game called "Castles and Crusades". Apparently it is a clean up and rewrite of AD&D (by Gary Gygax and the Troll Lords) with some of the newer improvements - such as ascending armour class. Pretty much one book - it would seem to be the best of both AD&D and 5e. Interested in your thoughts . . .
Hi Paul. Yes, I'm very familiar with C&C. And if I had had a choice, that's the game I would have wanted to start with rather than D&D. It is, essentially, a cleaned up version of D&D that makes better sense. But, it's hard teaching an old dog new tricks as they say. I was too far down the D&D road to make the switch when I found out about it. I do recommend it. There are a number of books for it, but not nearly so many as later D&D editions have put out.
One of my favourite D&D books out there. Absolutely love it, especially the Journeymanne version. Though, if you haven't looked into Oldschool Essentials, which is basically a collection of Moldvay's D&D with all kind of cool little additions such as more classes (Gnome, Drow Elf, Half-Orc etc.), optional guidelines on how to turn THAC0 matrix and AC into a form D&D uses today and a lot more. The only thing it's missing is the charming art from the 70's and 80's and the rules are a bit bland to look at. Basically reads like a science manual to combustion engines. But as far as the rules go it's totally faithful and contains basically everything you would ever need to run good old fashioned D&D.
We've had a lot of people recommend Old School Essentials. I now have a copy that I'm working through. But you're right, the great artwork is missing. I hope they find a way to put some into future editions.
We based it on an artwork by Dave Trampier from the AD&D Monster Manual page 104. Not sure of the name of the work but it has three adventurers looking into a glowing treasure chest.
@@theoldwarlock Thank you very much for the response! I love your channel and I'm an original 1st edition player...and still my favorite system of AD&D. Cheers and thanks from Canada.
Hi Alan. Yes. And in my opinion, OSRIC is one of best things to happen to RPGs in the past 20 years. I would be playing that, or Castles and Crusades if I were to start over again.
Except for the disaster of 4th edition I never had anything personal against editions after 1E except that later editions, to me, included too much customization and bogged the game down, in other words included stuff we did not need to have fun.
@@theoldwarlock it i s really amazing especially the layout and design even though its origin era rules its presented in a fashion that feels so innovative.
@@VileTraveller Well this is a real pleasure for me! I’d love to ask you some questions about your games sometime. If you would be amenable to that, please drop us an email at officialoldwarlock@gmail.com. If you’d rather not get into questions and answers, thank you for what you’ve created all the same!
Agree 100%. That magical blue book paired with B2 Keep on the Borderlands WAS D&D for my friends and me. It transported us to a different world whenever we got together. It's hard to explain to people today how amazing the game felt back then in an analog world!
Couldn’t agree more. Will be making a video about the early D&D experience in the near future. Send us a reminiscence or two if you get a chance either here or through our website. We’d like to hear your early stories.
"Keep on the borderlands" OMG thinking about 1981 I had to go pull that ugly colored book off the shelf. A little worn and aged but complete. I believe i got my first basic set "red book" at or about the same time, and if there are any questions about it...Morgan Ironwolf is a female. She is also a powerful adventurer and leader of an adventuring company "Ironwolf Trading and Adventuring Company" within my campaign along with most of her friends within that book and a number of "red shirts". I believe the players in my campaign were first introduced to long story form World living NPCs through this character in an "assist/npc hero saves the moment role" in The Keep on the Borderlands module as both it and the characters were for the most part complete. I don't think prior to this module and that rulebook with existing npc that I had created my own of either. Morgan Ironwolf without a doubt might be the oldest used NPC in the history of my gaming as a DM. I have "companies" binder with a great deal of detail for this character and her collection of magical items, details of her company and personnel, wealth and land holdings throught the realms.
Hmmm...when I got the Holmes set, it came with B1, not B2. It was my gateway to RPGs.
Mine had B1 but I certainly loved B2. Much more because it had an actual base. We eventually modified the area to have Hommlet sit below the Keep.
That Holmes blue book was my first D&D.
Mine as well, and my second game purchase as a very young teen, the 1st being Gamma world
Holmes 1st edition my mom got at a garage sale. No dice, it had the chits! 😮
Friend of mine had that one! He always felt cheated.
Wow, yeah. My dad got me the basic set when I was ten. The clerk told us about the chits, and convinced my dad to buy a set of dice at the same time.
Never cut out the chits.
First D&D book I ever had.
Discovered your channel through a post in a Holmes Blue Box FB Community. I'm glad I did. You guys seem to care not just about the game but it's players. I already knew about both these systems. This could have been just another review about Holmes D&D. But what kept me riveted to this review was your love for the actual game(s) and your willingness to share it. Great work!
Thanks. That's quite a compliment and it's greatly appreciated. Hopefully, we can keep the same tone moving forward.
Yep....love it too, even though it was a slightly different beast than Moldvay. Great to hear ya'll are back doing these again! 👊
The Holmes Basic Set was my introduction to D&D. I poured through that book over and over again, I had much of it memorized. I have a an immense amount of nostalgia for it, that cover just gives me the feels every time I see it. However, when it comes to Basic D&D rules, it might be my least favorite ruleset. Despite the fact that it is really just a reworking and rewriting on OD&D, it is still fairly clunky and inconsistent in nature. However, Holmes Basic really put forth the rules organization and presentation that would start to shape D&D Basic rulebooks. With that said, I will absolutely still play OD&D or Holmes Basic.
5e is more complicated and harder to understand than AD&D? I will agree it is more complex than OD&D. B/X, BECMI, but it is not more complex than AD&D. AD&D is not a "rules lite" system but any of older Basic versions were.
5e may be better laid out however it's vastly more complicated. B/X also tried to codify everything as compared to Holmes rules-lite style. All have their place and are good even though really different games and feels.
@@Susrek as compared to Holmes, yes, 5e is more complicated. As compared to AD&D, not as much.
Aside from nostalgia, the reasoning behind this selection is the same as why I chose White Box to start people out. Once they are used to a class-based system and basic gameplay, I plan to introduce them to either BECMI or AD&D. Every time I watch one of your review videos I have an addition to my wish list.
Glad you find some good stuff in our content! We're hoping to have more reviews soon.
The blue & white Holmes was my very first D&D book circa 1978! I was 11 years old!
It's definitely a great one! Thanks for the comment!
A friend lent me that here in New Zealand in 1977. I hid in a room and when the school had closed I into the school admin office and photocopied it. A pirate from way back apparently.
This made me laugh because we sneaked into the teachers' lounge at our school to do the exact same thing. BUT, we didn't do it when the school was closed. I think we were all a bunch of pirates back then but you would have been our captain! KYSAF!
@@theoldwarlock When we first started playing we used d6s only and a math book of random numbers. My first polyhedral dice I made out of cardboard. Still have the d4 and a side from the d8.
Yep. That was the edition my first DM used (also in '78), though our group quickly amassed the other rulebooks and supplements, as well. I pored over every detail of that color box cover by David C. Sutherland III, and it drove my imagination for many years as I both played and also ran D&D campaigns. What great days those were! =^[.]^=
Agreed! And some of those earliest drawings in the books still can't be beat for driving the imagination.
Zenopus is my go to 1st adventure.
I bought that Basic Set when I was a kid along with 2 blister packs of dwarves and 2 blister packs of goblins figuring I could use them to do some little fantasy miniatures skirmishes...when I opened the boxed set and started reading I was totally amazed and blown away and hooked for life. No introduction, no real awareness of the game outside of seeing a few displays in stores just that set to learn how to play, it probably took 6 months or so to get a game together but by 12 I was DMing a monthly game for my dad, a couple of relatives and some of my dad's co-workers.
I had pretty much the same reaction after reading the game. It was a mind altering experience since I'd never seen anything like it before. I still have vivid images in my mind from the first time I read the book.
I was given the Holmes D&D Basic Set - 1st ed, for my birthday. I'd been introduced to D&D through the original D&D 3 booklet rule set (White Box) & also had experience of TSR's Empire of the Petal Throne which used the D&D game system with a few notable difference - skills for instance. The Holmes edition is an excellent introduction to D&D & can be played alone or with purchased modules. The boxed Basic Set my favourite D&D item. The only other TSR RPG rule booklet with as attractive & iconic image is Metamorphosis Alpha.
I was largely the same. Didn't have the 3 book set but those that taught me did. I bought Holmes as my first deep dive into the game and have always loved it. Never got to play EPT but now I'm trying to find a less expensive copy so I can try it out. Also just purchased MA and am looking forward to jumping into it. What better way to waste retirement money?
@@theoldwarlock
You can buy inexpensive PDF of EoPT from DriveThruRPG.
EOPT & MA are two games with wildly imaginative game settings featuring systems that are simple & flexible.MA has been mashed with D&D and there is an AD&D module - S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks that incorporates MA concepts.
Metamorphosis Alpha was later expanded to form basis of Gamma World.
Ive definitely heard of it. It was my first and it gives me such nostalgia to see a copy.
Hopefully you still have yours?
@@theoldwarlock Original is long gone. But Noble Knight came to the rescue.
I would recommend both the Dungeon Builder’s Guide Book and World Builder’s Guide Book from 2nd Edition AD&D.
Both are excellent.
Thanks for making this. Very helpful as this is exactly the product I was trying to find out about. The info clarifies much. But there's not any info about Mystara. Which is what I was mainly looking for. The earliest published material on that campaign setting. Mainly the earliest settings/adventures of D&D in comparison to later settings like Forgotten Realms.
This week I just bought the 1979 Holmes Blue Box Basic D&D set from eBay with the B2 module. I remember looking at the cover in the toy store in 1979. Now I have it in mint condition. I am going to get B1 module next.
That's a heck of a find, congratulations! Keep your sword arm free!
@@theoldwarlock Thanks Old Warlock.
I've always just known that as The Blue Book. I've still got a couple copies of it in my collection.
I've heard a lot of people refer to it the same way. Calling it Holmes Basic didn't come about until much much later for me.
I play the Blueholme Journeymanne retro clone, it's my favorite old school system so far.
Agreed! Was really impressed with the system. I recommend it a lot.
Glad you like it! I wrote it as a what-if exercise - what if Holmes had become the basis (!) of D&D instead of AD&D?
A reprint of the Holmes D&D book was included in the TSR Silver Anniversary Collector's Edition box set. Unfortunately, the box set is Really expensive to obtain these days. I was fortunate enough to find a set when it came out. It was cool you guys shared this with the community.
Glad you liked it Dani.
Most important, yes. The best: D&D Rules Cyclopedia.
I have heard of Holmes basic because I am a huge fan of Basic but I prefer Moldvey. By the way I am mostly just commenting because I know UA-cam likes user interactions and I want your channel to do well cause you guys are cool.
Thanks for the comment and for taking the time to help us out! Regarding Moldvey, I think most people are more familiar with Moldvey than Holmes. I'd be willing to bet a lot more of the Moldvey sets were sold. One of these days I'm going to go through each one in detail and do a complete comparison. I'm curious to know how distinct the differences are since they're only separated by a few years.
@@smugzoid5156 I have a copy of Swords and Wizardry but have yet to go through it and I haven't seen WBFMAG. We've had several comments on Old School Essentials and I plan to investigate that as well. I'm afraid I'm one of those collectors. Not so much to play but to see what others have done with OSR as well as to support them producing more OSR compatible products. Also "ahem" to steal ideas for my own campaign.
@@theoldwarlock I think you'll find them different not just here and there but if you play, the feel is very different.
@@theoldwarlock White Box FMAG is a huge improvement on S&W. Great for one-shots if people want a more B/X feel without the extra rules. Blueholme is now my favourite D&D version. It needs more light shone on it. We run a monthly game on Discord as a drop-in game (anyone can play) using the original Holmes adventures.
Update I now own a copy of this book and I also have Old School Essentials and the Rules cyclopedia. There are a lot of minor differences and interpretations between the three so when I am thinking about how I'm going to run my game I consult all three to reach a final ruling.
I've heard of it. A friend of mine had it. I had the next version of the box set.
There were definitely differences between the sets and I think overall the purple (later) set was more popular (or they made more). I like both.
The Holmes version was my introduction to D&D. I still have it.
It's a little scary now thinking that the Holmes book was my gateway drug back in 1980 (I found it on the ground, outside my middle school, and got really confused by the inclusion of the chits), and soon it would be relegated to obscurity. I later got my hands on the original white box set a year or three later. While I was trying to run campaigns with the Holmes book, others in my school started throwing the word "Advanced" around. Sadly, my mother deemed all of the artifacts of the era "worthless trash," and that's where most of them ended. Great retrospective and trip down memory road. Thanks! 🍻
Glad you enjoyed the video! Hope you find some new books somewhere at some point! Keep your sword arm free!
I just picked up a copy of the original Holms blue book! So excited to have find it! I am just afraid to touch it with out gloves, eh! I really want Blue Holms now, and to look into ad&d.
Glad you like it! It was my gateway drug so be careful.
I learned from Moldvay and Cook! Basic Expert is the only D&D I need
I got the famous Holmes Basic D&D set for Christmas in 1980! I’m still running a campaign as a DM today!
Nice! And I agree - I've never really felt the need to move any further away from it.
Rules cyclopedia is all you ever need
You're right, it is an excellent book.
I've got two VF/NM copies right in front of me! Thanks for sharing.
Nice to hear. One of the best gaming books ever!
Thanks for sharing this! Just picked up Blueholme.
Let us know what you think!!!
@@theoldwarlock I love it! I got my start with the magenta box so this is right at home. Thanks
I learn how to play with The Black Box (TSR 1070). Yep, the one with the dragon cards, by Troy Denning.
First time I've seen your channel. I have several Old School channels I watch, and yours fits in perfectly. Very good video, and thanks for introducing me to the Blueholme books. Looking for them at the current time. I love that you said that you make lots of characters that die, until you find the "one that sticks." Much more entertaining than having a superhero from the beginning. Looking forward to seeing more from you. Keep up the great work!
Thanks, Michael. We appreciate to feedback.
If you guys aren't familiar with Basic Fantasy you should look it up. They have free adventures in PDF and books printed at cost.
I got lucky and found this box set cheap at a local Con. I enjoy it and the Basic & Expert version of the game (later retro-cloned into Labyrinth Lord and many other games).
We've heard of Basic Fantasy but never played it. It's been recommended enough times that I'll probably have to pick up a copy.
So glad this came up in my feed today. Great stuff guys.
Thanks Lightmane, we really appreciate it. Keep your sword arm free!
Heard it, have it, started with and love it. Also have Chainmail as well as BX and BECMI.
I have 2 of the blue books. One is in almost new condition and one is is good but used.
That is the first real How to play book.
Drive thru RPG has reprints in print on demand. Basic Fantasy and Old school essentials are two other retro clones of the old rules sets.
enjoyed the video
Didn't realize there were reprints available on DTRPG. I need to pick one up as a working copy. Thanks!
I STARTED with Holmes. Good times!
Agreed. Some of the best memories I have were figuring out that book in a friend's basement and eating frozen pizzas from the 1970s (makes today's stuff seem gourmet).
The rules of Chainmaile that Dave Arneson started with was actually not known as Chainmaile. It was from the Domesday book and it was the only iteration without fantasy. It also went by a different name, it was from volume five. Everyone assumes it’s the published Chainmaile books that came later. Gary of course continue to center around Chainmaile rules but Arliss and used a different combat center. he based his combat mechanics on his naval combat game because it made more sense than the wargaming. In fact he dropped the chain mill rules within three games due to player revolt. He has long since change the game mechanics by the time he met up with Gary and discussed showing him the game that he had created. And the possibility of publishing with him. Gary of course was very enthused
if you have questions feel free to ask used to know Dave Arneson
Thanks for sending this, Kevin. Very interesting. I may be in touch regarding Arneson.
Moldvay was to me what Holmes was to you. Great stuff.
I sent my sister's family a copy of the 1991 Rules Cyclopedea, but somewhat regretted it -- its a great resource for experienced players or (especially) for dungeon masters, but its way too much to throw at new players like my niece and nephew. The only misgiving I'd have about Blueholme is that it might be confusing to have them learn that when I'm basing the campaign on BECMI.
Good point. If you're teaching someone new, I'd go with whatever your using.
I read that manual today, is awesome
It's really the primary rulebook for my campaign. Glad you liked it.
Heard of own and use it everyother weekend
Have you seen the Old School Essential books from Necrotic Gnome? In particular the Dolmenwood setting or the module books by Gavin Norman? The way the modules are laid out are sooooo good
I don't believe we have, but thanks for the recommendation! We'll have to try and check it out! Keep your sword arm free!
Do you guys play AD&D or AD&D 2e?
We play AD&D with some 2e pulled in. We also have holdovers from Basic. Okay, and we have stuff from most later editions too, but mostly AD&D 1e.
Why do you guys think 5e is more complicated than AD&D? I am trying to learn AD&D 1e right now and it is...quite a bit to take on. This morning I learned those Latin abbreviations. 5e has a lot going on for sure but I am not sure it's more complicated. Maybe it is, I just don't see it yet. I want to learn AD&D and like it and run it. I'm sick of 5e for other reasons outside of complexity, mainly due to it's silly super hero base player characters. I have gone back and read Basic D&D and I absolutely love it. It is so much better than 5e and is way more simple. Basic got me interested in AD&D and I am finding it logical and I like how it is put together so far, but it is just a lot to take in. If you guys have time to respond, teach me! Peace.
There's a guy who did a series of videos covering most of the AD&D rules, with examples: ua-cam.com/play/PLHjo6M4H09m6rnf5QP-rfH7H_ABfZWHeO.html
AD&D is poorly laid out, the writing style can obfuscate the rules, and there are a _ton_ of them. But, a great deal of the rules deal with looking up things in charts and there is basically no character customization outside of getting gear, so there aren't a lot of the complex rules interactions that you can get into with 5e. (Which already massively cut down on the complexity of 3.5.) It's also easy to completely miss rules in AD&D (because it's buried halfway through a paragraph three sections away from the heading that it relates to), and a lot of people simply ignore the clunkier and more poorly written rules (weapon verses armor type adjustments, I'm looking at you!). Finally, a lot of things that are defined by rules in 5e, like skills, are left to the GM's discretion. There are pro's and cons to that, but the AD&D way can certainly seem simpler.
So once you get used to playing it, your table's version of the system is usually pretty streamlined and it feels like a pretty simple game.
@@zachklopfleisch8501 the players handbook was simplified for character creation. The game masters guide is a whole other level , the hit modifiers based on armor class, Hirelings, retainers, charisma, etc. add in wilderness adventures, oriental adventures, and it grew quite bloated.
Hey MC! My answer to this question kind of mirrors my own experience. I do get asked this from time to time. First, know that I disagree with the idea that you need to play every rule in a system to keep it balanced, etc. As noted in the video, I started with Holmes basic and learned that back to front. It was easily done because there wasn't much to it. When 1st edition (AD&D) came out, our table saw it more as supplements to Basic than a new game and continued to follow most of the Basic rules and concepts but added in AD&D things that worked with our style of play - and promptly ignored the rest. For people interested in doing things AD&D old school, I now suggest getting a copy of BlueHolme Prentice Rules (it's on drivethrurpg.com - just type in the title and you can download a PDF of it for free). Read those rules (remember it is essentially Holmes Basic) and play just those rules with your players as if it's a new game - forget everything else you know. Stick with it for a few months until you and your table are really familiar with it - it'll be fun. Then, read and add in the Monster Manual. To me that's where the flavor of AD&D comes through. Monsters are dangerous for low level characters and that makes for a thinking game instead of a killing game. After you get to know the monsters, start with the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide and Players Handbook. Read them through starting with the Players Handbook. That was the "supplement" we adopted the most from. It allows you to expand characters beyond Basic and flesh out their skills and abilities. We used/use most of the PH but a lot of it is just reference (for spells and such) for after you have established your characters. The DMs Guide is another beast. Lots of great information in it, but it really complicates things if you try to integrate it all. Some people are all for that - we aren't. We use the combat tables, saving throw tables, and random monster encounter tables for play of the game. Everything else is for occasional reference and even that is primarily limited to the money section, armor section, and treasure section. There's good information throughout the book for special situations (large battles, siege engines, and such), but we have our DMs be in charge, not the rule set so rules used vary for campaign to campaign in how things are dealt with. You could say we're all playing the game in the same language, but there are different accents. This keeps players not knowing exactly how things are going to be from DM to DM and for us that's a good thing. Our DMs also have developed loads of house rules to make the game to their liking and that just comes with time. For my money, the above is all you need. I have all the other AD&D books, and have read them through, but rarely use them aside from Monster Manual II, Fiend Folio, Unearthed Arcana, and Deities and Demigods. Regarding a balanced game, I don't believe in one. Sometimes PCs are in control, other times they're running for their lives - it all comes down to their decisions and what the DM has created for them to experience, not the rules set. The rules are just a framework to keep people on the same page, but the story being made takes up the rest of the book. I hope this helps. AD&D can seem complex but if a rule is tough to understand or it takes away from the flow of the story, toss it. Doing that has never impacted our game. And even Gary Gygax talked at one point about using whatever rules work for you. One of my favorite quotes from the man is, "The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." I hope this helps. Feel free to ask questions.
@@theoldwarlock Thanks for this detailed answer. I have read through a pdf of the PBH and ordered the 3 core books from DTrpg.The PBH was not too complicated, just a lot of info to contend with. I know the DMG will be even more so. What are your thoughts on Unearthed Arcana? I am thinking of getting it too but might skip it. I also ordered Tomb of Horrors, Ravenloft, and Dwellers of the Forbidden City in print. Any module recommendations? I already like Basic D&D and what I have read of AD&D more than 5e. 5e is great but I don't enjoy my players being semi deities at level 4. I'm in my late 30's and did not play D&D as a kid. I feel like I missed out on something that was invented for me in the prime time to play...so I am making up for lost time. What is a word for a nostalgia you did not experience lol? Old school D&D is my absolute favorite hobby and I got into less than a month ago.
@@zachklopfleisch8501 Makes sense. Yea after reading through the PBH over the weekend I noticed what you are saying about a specific rule being buried in the text. This will come back to bite me. I don't have a great memory and will have to constantly check the rules. I like to play RAW and this is my goal for this game...just to see if I can do it. Once I am satisfied I will probably chop some of the more cumbersome bits. Thanks for the reply!
I have. It is somewhere around here.
Played a few games using that system.
Just recently found this channel....think you guys are great! Old school DM myself, NOT a fan of 5e! Keep up the good work!
Thanks for your comment! Keep your sword arm free!
I'd say if people want to get into table top RPGs they should get into OSR instead of D&D 5e.
Just found your channel, and I really enjoy the enthusiasm and level of knowledge you guys have in regards to original and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. Consider me a fan. Out of curiosity, have you guys heard of Basic Fantasy Role-playing, Old School Essentials, OSRIC, etc?
Thanks very much for your comments. I hope we can create more content you'll enjoy. As to your questions, I'm very familiar with OSRIC which is fantastic for many reasons. It was, of course, one of the first OSR rule sets I came across when I started searching such things out. Old School Essentials I know of, but have yet to actually purchase. Basic Fantasy RPG I had not heard of but looked up before this reply. Thanks for putting me on to it! I'm amazed at the number of languages it's been translated into, etc. I'm excited to get copies of that, too. I'm always happy to find and purchase new OSR items (New OSR - does that sound odd?) just, if nothing else, to support the people who are putting effort into OSR in the hope they'll continue to do so. Our system is basically OSRIC with our own rules tossed in along with a lot we've brought over from Holmes Basic. But we've pillaged other rules when it's suited us. Again, thanks for bringing new stuff to our attention. I think we're gaining much more knowledge than we're imparting. With Best Regards-
I still have that book somewhere....
The Holmes book has the single best introductory or example dungeon ever printed. If anyone has not tracked it down yet… you should!
I can almost picture the map. I think there was like an underground pool or lake
Completely agree! It still influences my dungeons today.
Very interested in whether you have come across a game called "Castles and Crusades". Apparently it is a clean up and rewrite of AD&D (by Gary Gygax and the Troll Lords) with some of the newer improvements - such as ascending armour class. Pretty much one book - it would seem to be the best of both AD&D and 5e. Interested in your thoughts . . .
Hi Paul. Yes, I'm very familiar with C&C. And if I had had a choice, that's the game I would have wanted to start with rather than D&D. It is, essentially, a cleaned up version of D&D that makes better sense. But, it's hard teaching an old dog new tricks as they say. I was too far down the D&D road to make the switch when I found out about it. I do recommend it. There are a number of books for it, but not nearly so many as later D&D editions have put out.
C&C is absolutely a better 5e. They share a similar objective but C&C nails it and 5e sorta fritters it's way back to the problems of 3e.
One of my favourite D&D books out there. Absolutely love it, especially the Journeymanne version. Though, if you haven't looked into Oldschool Essentials, which is basically a collection of Moldvay's D&D with all kind of cool little additions such as more classes (Gnome, Drow Elf, Half-Orc etc.), optional guidelines on how to turn THAC0 matrix and AC into a form D&D uses today and a lot more. The only thing it's missing is the charming art from the 70's and 80's and the rules are a bit bland to look at. Basically reads like a science manual to combustion engines. But as far as the rules go it's totally faithful and contains basically everything you would ever need to run good old fashioned D&D.
We've had a lot of people recommend Old School Essentials. I now have a copy that I'm working through. But you're right, the great artwork is missing. I hope they find a way to put some into future editions.
@@theoldwarlock the artwork and the how and why of playing. Good for reference for experienced players, horrible for newbies. To
I wish DnD books would go back to being that small.
As someone who just reorganized a home library of such books, I couldn't agree more.
We have Cairn now
What is the name of the original illustration that you based the thumbnail on? I've been trying to find it for quite a while...
We based it on an artwork by Dave Trampier from the AD&D Monster Manual page 104. Not sure of the name of the work but it has three adventurers looking into a glowing treasure chest.
@@theoldwarlock Thank you very much for the response! I love your channel and I'm an original 1st edition player...and still my favorite system of AD&D. Cheers and thanks from Canada.
@@athenassigil5820 You bet! Glad you like our content. KYSAF!
Mine was w B1, had chits.
Yes! A friend of mine had the chits. As I recall, the box included a card you could send in for the free dice. Am I remembering that right?
Great advice!
Thanks, and another commenter said you can get a Holmes Basic reprint from DriveThruRPG.
Ever check out OSRIC?
Hi Alan. Yes. And in my opinion, OSRIC is one of best things to happen to RPGs in the past 20 years. I would be playing that, or Castles and Crusades if I were to start over again.
Except for the disaster of 4th edition I never had anything personal against editions after 1E except that later editions, to me, included too much customization and bogged the game down, in other words included stuff we did not need to have fun.
Never heard of??? I still own it since i was a kid.
Yall had a chance to check out Old School Essentials? Its really dope.
We've heard a lot about it and plan on checking it out soon. Thanks
@@theoldwarlock it i s really amazing especially the layout and design even though its origin era rules its presented in a fashion that feels so innovative.
We agree. It may have something to do with all that came before but there's also something about the design that is really comfortable.
look into DCC
It gets recommended a lot. It's on our list of things to check out. Thanks!
I have but I'm dating myself. ;)
Gotta admit, when you think too close, it can scare you when you realize how long ago you bought that book.
Never heard of it? I own one.
It's terrible. It's a poorly written, poorly organized incomplete but important book in the D&D canon.
Not at all. Holmes was a wonderful writer. It's perfectly well organized and as complete as it was allowed to be.
Thanks for the Blueholme shout-out (first time I've ever been called a group!). 🥸
Are you MT?
That's me! 🤓
@@VileTraveller Well this is a real pleasure for me! I’d love to ask you some questions about your games sometime. If you would be amenable to that, please drop us an email at officialoldwarlock@gmail.com. If you’d rather not get into questions and answers, thank you for what you’ve created all the same!