Why product-led growth is the future | Elena Verna (Amplitude, Miro, Surveymonkey)

Elena Verna has led growth at some of today’s most successful B2B businesses, including Miro as CMO, Surveymonkey as SVP of Growth, and now at Amplitude as interim Head of Growth. She’s also worked closely with over a dozen companies on growth and product strategy, including companies like MongoDB, Clockwise, and Netlify (where she sits on the board of directors). Elena is undoubtedly one of the smartest people on growth strategy in the world.
Find the full transcript here: www.lennyspodcast.com/elena-v...
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Where to find Elena:
• LinkedIn: / elenaverna
• Twitter: / elenaverna
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• Newsletter: www.lennysnewsletter.com
• Twitter: / lennysan
• LinkedIn: / lennyrachitsky
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Thank you to our sponsors for making this episode possible:
• Persona: withpersona.com/lenny
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• PostHog: posthog.com/lenny
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In this episode, we cover:
00:00 Elena’s career path
03:59 How did Elena go from an analyst at Safeway to Head of Product at Amplitude?
11:38 The path to advising
13:30 Elena’s most fulfilling and most challenging positions yet
17:00 What’s changing in B2B growth?
19:49 Consumerization examples
21:48 What exactly is “product-led growth,” and how can you apply it at every stage of growth?
23:15 Advice for founders starting a company
26:36 Layering sales-led and product-led
28:27 Why does PLG often get crushed when you move upmarket, and how do you avoid this?
35:00 Advice for starters going to market
36:38 Why product-led is the future of sales
38:57 Defining product-led sales vs sales-driven
41:41 Why is freemium the way to go, over trial?
51:34 Why you should hire internally for your first growth hire
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[@kasperkorea]

My goodness she is well spoken.

[@alexf7414]

I just had an epiphany hearing Elena talk, what she’s sharing is gold. Lenny since I found your content I’ve being thinking in locking myself in my house for 2 weeks and consuming it all, the value you provide is insane. Thanks a lot

[@anirudhmadhavan]

I usually gauge a piece of information by its simplicity. This is so well crafted and simple to understand for someone new to growth like me. With 8 years of product experience, I'm now exploring growth and enjoyed every bit of this.

[@Berta999able]

Wow, this is one smart lady. The way she approaches every question by deconstructing common assumptions and evaluating Pros/Cons of each alternative at the speed that she does is really impressive. One of those moments when I'm proud to be from Russia lol

[@josevalle7133]

Probably the best PLG talk I have seen! So much great information.

[@helenarvan]

This right. I feel like I was in a class lesson. She is amazing and as well the tone of speaking. I was able to capture everything and I've bookmarked this talk for further notes. Amazing.

[@kedmitheus]

This is a wonderful talk on PLG! It's incredible how you can literally hear through Elena's voice Nir Eyal's book "Hooked". Thanks for sharing !

[@MildredIwegbu]

This was wonderful to listen to. I was able to follow the conversation as a new PM and not get lost. Thank you Elena and Lenny

[@Karthik-s]

One of the great podcast in recent times! There is so much in it 🙌

[@lucaslarbodiere3120]

WoW she makes such a complex subject so simple. I loved the talk thanks

[@pinchosfam]

OMG this is pure gold, Elena is brilliant!!!

[@ronjart]

Amazing insight. Thank you so much for recording and sharing!

[@jaredlekkas5458]

Incredible interview!! Huge thanks!🎉🎉

[@giovannigiannaccari5166]

Best Startup business podcast I've ever heard tbh

[@qusek6446]

GREAT value watching from Mexico. Learned a lot, thanks Lenny and Elena!

[@greg2biggers]

Wow. Master class in product led growth thinking and practices!!! Thank you Elena and Lenny

[@michelguyfortin]

This is awesome! What a great interview with so many insights. Thank you!

[@patricknyiti5303]

OMG..This is 1 hour sublime experience

[@ChrisTischner]

Amazing chat! But disagree with doing trials OR Freemium. You should charge for your product immediately and make your ICP sign a contract from the start. Just include a provision where they cancel within 30 or 60 days. This makes sure you get paid immediately, but gives the customer the ability to walk away if it's not a good fit.

[@tnabizade]

Great podcast, amazing!
For me it is still a bit difficult ti understand the difference between bottom-up and product led growth.
I mean even when the sales generate leads and Pipeline, they do it based on the sales of the product that yiu have, but not something else, right? How does that contradict to product led growth, that also sest the product qualification, maybe self service, efficiency due to product utilization?

[@LennysPodcast]

A simple way to think about it is that "bottom-up growth" refers to *who*-starting at the bottom of the rung within a company (e.g. an individual engineer or PM), vs. going straight at the CTO/CTO/PTO. You get ICs using it, excited about it, and spreading within an org. While "Product-led growth" refers to *how* someone begins using the product, being able to start using the product and finding value without talking to anyone (e.g. sales).
These two usually work together, as going bottom-up is really only possible if you can just start using the product self-serve (e.g. Figma), but there are times where you can be product-led and start in the middle of the org (e.g. eng managers). You can possibly even be product-led and top down, though can't think of any examples.

[@MUXI_]

Could you please include a time-lapse in your video? thanks.

[@Valueacademyonline]

OMG. Where did you find this Jam?

[@sadiviziotv7095]

analysis of 107 publicly listed B2B SaaS providers shows that most companies adopting product-led motions are not enjoying any boost

[@thomasto314]

Can you point me to the analysis?