The M14 did what it was asked to do (Cold War Rifles)
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- Опубліковано 9 січ 2018
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I was a Marine and I carried an M14 for 17 months in Vietnam, the last four months in constant combat with a rifle company. It was a superb, dependable, and deadly weapon. It always worked, no matter what the lousy climate, wet, and dirt it was used in. I used it to engage at 600m against snipers and 10 meters against a VC who blundered into me. I used mine in full auto from the hip against ambushers and from the prone with an XM3 bipod as a squad automatic weapon. It was the main reason that I'm still alive, because it always worked, hit what I aimed at, and killed what it hit.
We got the M-16 in January 1967 and they were fragile, almost impossible to get a reliable setting for the sights, the safety would stick on "safe" and it would jam horrifically and many good Marines were killed while they tried to clear those jams. My company commander would periodically ask why I still kept my M14 and I told him "I'm in artillery and we don't have M16s yet" and then when I'd return to my battery for my mail, they'd tell me that they had an M16 in the armory for me and I'd say "Nah, the grunts want me to keep my M14". I carried it until the day I got hit and my Forward Observer lieutenant crawled up to me (we were still under heavy fire) and said "Rick, I'm sorry you're hurt, but can I take your rifle?".
Much later, I was on a Marine rifle team, firing a match M14 and I still hold the range record for Puuloa Rifle Range I set in 1976: 34 consecutive V-Ring (5 inch circle) bullseyes at 600m, iron sights. Later my team won the Lloyd Trophy in the Far Eastern Division Matches with M14s.
The M14 was and is a superb battle weapon!
A wonderful story. Thank you!
This is exactly what my dad, a Vietnam Marine said!
Fucking legend! Honor to you sir.
Outstanding story, thank you and welcome home. (respect from Canada)
You would be a minority in your statements. It's probably because your were properly trained to utilize such a weapon.
I was one of the fortunate ones to get issued a stock M-14 during Iraq. Mines was built by Winchester and boxed up in 1971 for storage at Anniston Arsenal in Alabama. I was the first soldier to open that box in 2006 right before deployment. It also came with an ART II scope and mount. The full auto selector had been removed and the selector lock was on it. I cleaned it and mounted the scope and zeroed it. The armorers had no clue what an M14 was. My C.O. chose me to get issued with one because he knew I was a shooter and worked at a gun store besides being a soldier and owned a Springfield M1A. I installed and re-assembled all 6 rifles in the company with the help of the 5 other Designated Marksmen. All are M-24 trained snipers. We had a good deployment in 2006-2007. No issues with the rifles and we made good engagements from average of 125 meters in cities and towns, sometimes to 400 meters. Hadji hated us.
Hoorah, trooper - keep stacking 'em up! (our enemies, that is)...
GeorgiaBoy1961=I have done my time. I retired in 2009. My soldiers I had under me back then were young men. I have taught them to appreciate the M14/M1A system as an excellent shooting platform. Many of them are senior NCOs now and instructors who have become really outstanding on their own through my guidance in the past. They were all shooters by their skills as infantrymen when I got them. I just provided the niche of enthusiasm.
I call bullshit
Charlie Rothwill= So when and where were you Down Range?
@@reddevilparatrooper I call bull shit as well, like they brought out some antique out of Alabama for use in Afghanistan? Next your going to try to say you actually get pussy, yeah right
I was in the Marine Corps from 1964 to 1968. The rifle issued to me during those 4 years was the M-14. I never was allowed to set the sear for full automatic. I loved the M-14 and the NATO 7.62 mm ammo. In 1966, I set a record at the rifle range at Camp Lejeune. The previous high score was held by a company commander in the 2nd Tank Battalion. The commander brought a case of beer to my barracks to reward me for breaking his record. I did not drink so I yelled out in the squadbay, "If you want some beer, come and get it!" The beer disappeared in less than a minute. Ah, those were the good old days.
I served from '66-'68... PI, 2nd Bn, Platoon 281. Will never forget my experience in the MC either. You never said what your record breaking score at Camp Lejeune was. It had to be 220 or above (probably closer to 250). Not questioning your rifleman skill, but you left out that important piece of information in your post. I too loved the M-14 and thought it was the natural evolution of the M-1 Garand, which I had the chance to fire going through ITR at Camp Geirger and Stone Bay NC. Can you imagine being in close combat and trying to give an enemy a vertical or horizontal butt stroke with the M-16? The stock would no doubt break, rendering the rifle useless. But hit 'em in the head with an M-1 or M-14 stock, and they'd drop like a sack of potatoes. At any rate, glad you broke the existing record and enjoyed the beer. Semper Fi, Jarhead. Oorah!
Semper Fi Marine.
Semper Fi brothers.
Dwight, you sound like everyone's favorite Marine! You're a crack shot and you've always got beer to hand out!
@@utubetommy
I don't know about the 1960s m16 stocks, but the m16A2 stock can take alot of punishment
From Feb.1965 thru basic and ait at Ft.Polk, I trained with the M 14 like all the army guys did at that time. Afterward in 1966-67, I was allowed to have my M 14 because I was a good shooter. It never let me down. I was able to reach out and clip charlie when the other guys with their little black AR's were coughing up their little 223's rounds. To this day, the M 14 is just one fine bad ass friend I will never forget.
The gas system on the M14 is self adjusting and works in different climate extremes. It doesn't need someone cranking on it.
My dad carried one in Vietnam. He loved this weapon. I just bought him one as a gift. I got a chance to shoot it hitting the gong at 380 yards iron sights. Scary accurate weapon.
Trained in Marine Corps boot camp (MCRD) 1964 with the M14, next to Infantry school, Camp Pendleton, 4 months at 29 Palm and than served nineteen months in Vietnam with the M14, thousands of rounds fired in anger, never jammed, cleaned it everyday, served in Vietnam again for 13 months with my M14. I can tell you from experience, it weighed more than the little black rifle, but it was the finest battle rifle of that war. Saved my skin many times and that of my brother Marines. Semper Fi
Lewis Wood MCRD 1963, thank you for your service.
Tom Stuc,my brother also was in the corp in the 60,s he also said to drill sarge that he preferred the m14 over any other weapon and laughed at the m16 ,dad taught us early to use weapons in our childhood,dad used a M1 carbine in ww2,liked it cause it was light in weight,my brother was a better marksman than me,dad made us look ridiculous with a rifle,i'll never be the man he was
Lewis Wood Semper Fi!! I joined a month after 9/11, and only used the M16A2, but half way through my enlistment, M4 was issued to combat units.
Still in now. Have gotten a good deal of time behind the Army's re-vamped M14, and definitely prefer it in harsher surroundings than the alternative M110s. Still a great rifle.
Thank you for your service and your input here.
I was in the last Ft. Ord Basic Training cycle to qualify on the M14. Because of my MOS I also had to qualify with the M16. I personally prefer the M14 over the M16.
Never fired the m14 but I have a garand. And I would say firing the ar over the m14 is a much more e pleasant experience. However my fal is a real joy to shoot.
The M14 might be a little outdated but it is the prettiest rifle of its time and if you've ever shot one you'll fall in love with it I might be buried with mine
I miss my 14. 😐😎
Military doesn't fight "urban combat" anymore, or let's say they fight it very different ways. The length of a barrel isn't a problem for urban combat anyway. Urban combat means too much casualties anyway.
@@lulolee5325 That was literally the entire Iraq War after 2003. Urban combat. I've watched videos of Marines house clearing with 20 inch M16's and they were having to hold there barrels toward the ground half the time not to flag there own people or cross through doorways, and it hit me this is why they switched to M4 Carbines 14-16 inch.
I loved it too! Very accurate.🔥👍
Love this rifle very well 👌💯
went in the U.S army in 65 trained with the M14 i keep it for 4 years it was like another arm finest rifle i ever shot long live the .308
I trained on an m14 in 1965, I love it.
Those of us who are obviously way more familiar with the M14 know about the recoil and the rise of the muzzle in full auto. We also know that if you lay it on it's side with spent casings going up and start firing from your right to left holding the gun down on the hand guard it will automatically walk a straight line right across horizontally all by itself. We were taught to completely dissemble the M14 including the gas system and even the trigger group in the Marine Corps. What the rest of you all learned seems to be problematic with this weapon. It's the best rifle I've ever used and after 1965 to 1975 when I served I used them all. From close in to 800 yards it was the best of the bunch.
Henry Avery thanks for the feedback!
Navy Regs stated only a NAVY GM was allowed to do that maintenance.
We also know, anyone worth their weight in salt, will only use full auto to make the other side duck, whilst you maneuver and communicate.
1965 > 1971. In country 1965 > 66.
In 1969 we could disassemble and reassemble blind folded in no time.
The M 14 was the very first rifle I ever fired as a young Seaman not to long out of boot camp. Later in my Naval career I earned expert on the M 14. This rifle will always be in my heart. In fact I carried the M1 Garand during boot camp at the Naval Training Center Great Lakes Illinois in 1974.
To all who Served Thank you fer yer Service.
My brother was LRRP on DMZ "67" to "68", My first Cuz was in Pleiku fer 2 years "67" to "69". they both had m-14's and swore by im...would "punch" threw the jungle....as opposed ta the varmint rounds of thet .223.
I'm tuned in for and look forward to the G3 video. You got my attention with the FAL video.
I used M-14 in the Marines in 1964. Great rifle. While in Vietnam in 1965-66 the rifle was changed.
Came for the M14, stayed for the history lesson of the steel industry in America.
ZORG kind of interesting!
Carried one it in Viet Nam 1966-77. Loved it ! It’s a classic, you don’t see the m-16s carried at the tomb of the unknown soldier or most other events for that matter.
I was in the Army from 1966 to 1972. Trained on the M-14 and love to this day. Have a buddy, from Junior High, that was in the Marine Corps, same thing, Both of us own that rifle today. I believe there are a lot of us that trained with and loved that weapon.
Still LOVE the M14/M1A. Great rifle and design!!! Keep up the good work!
I love my M1A. The only draw back is that the damned thing weights just about as much as I do.
Good video. My two older brothers, One was in the Army the other in the Marines both used the M-14. They said it was a awesome rifle to shoot.
I qualified for my ribbon with a wooden M14. Not sure of the model, they just handed it us and said shoot!! I loved that thing! Accurate smooth operation, reliable! Appreciated the expertize of the TI, which I'm sure from his instruction was a seasoned vet.
God bless all veterans! 🙏🔥
AF 3478th Comm. Squad.9/66-6/72.
In 1965 in RVN the M-14 with the armour piercing .308 was the king of the land---nothing stood a chance against that round...At first we hated it because at sling arms the mag pokes you in side at every step. Then we learned to pack it across our bellys sling over the neck for a quick draw......T... USMC RVN 1965-66 Chu-lai
Old Dog thank you sir! And thank you for your service. 🇺🇸
We converted over to the Jungle Sling. It rhode better and was always at the ready.
In nam the M14 was my rifle, it never let me down 1965 to 1966,1968 to 1969. I served in the USMC from 1960 to 1981, Msgt retired.
I loved that M-14 when I was in the marines. I liked it more than the Mattey's.
A friend of mine worked for Harrington and Richardson during the M-14 production. He said the WW2 M-1 machines and tooling were so worn out that when they COULD keep them running, for every two parts they manufactured, one was part thrown away for failing QC!
Great history for, never realised production was spread out so much. Thanks.
Excellent presentation. Thank you!
Great video Paul!
I served in the Navy and we would use the M14 to shoot shot line across to another ship for refueling. Also we used it for shark watch. I’ve never heard of the anti mine use before
in viet nam 66 ,67 the bridge at da nang river was destroyed a bridge using pontoons was built Army CORPS OF Engineers. marines guarded the bridge and traffic control,the fired upon any thing that floated down river setting off many mines and explosive traps. I was witness to these events and L/CPL Caldarone was a very good shot.SEMPA FI BROTHERS.
USS SCOTT DDG-995 and USS KIDD DDG-993 used them in the eighties for all watches except roving patrol and QD watches.
@@NavyGunner1980 Sub base used them too while in port. The duty section always had one M14 and a shotgun watch. Visible on the subs.
I was in the Navy (USS SEMMES DDG-18) ditto on the shot line for unrep and shark watch. Wonder if they still swim like that anymore while anchored?
I went aboard the USS Kittyhawk as part of the Marine Detachment in 1976 and we had to qualify with this weapon that shot a .308 round. It was mainly a ceremonial weapon but we used to shoot weather balloons off the rear flight deck of the ship when we were at sea just for some target practice. We also shot the M79 grenade launcher and the M60. What a blast. Our main weapon for standing guard was the .45 or short barrel 12 gage but the good ole M16 was what we qualified with out of boot camp.
Great Job Covering my old Navy Weapon :) Used to have to qualify with this weapon
Yeah Len, I think that's what we used too at Great Lakes, 1967. Whew, I forgot. Much I cannot remember these days...
I was in Viet Nam in 1967 -68 and we carried the M-14, we were combat engineers and I suppose the army thought that infantry should have M-16's. I for one was very happy to have it as it never failed to function regardless of the weather or conditions we were in. It was interesting to hear you say they were discontinued in 1963, I saw alot of them while I was there.
Did you know Larry Strayer?
From all the veterans I've talked to they had no complaints with this rifle.
I don't have any complaints with it .
very few veterans ever used the M14 in combat. A few thousand of them, at most. By the time nam got really hot, we were using the m16.
I carried one in Viet Nam and I never felt that I did not have enough rifle.
Were you ever issued a M16? What did you think about it?
I qualified with one before I left for Viet Nam, expert I might add, but I was never issued one in country. The first rifle they gave me was a semi-automatic M-14 like we used in basic training. About six months later they swapped that one out for a fully automatic rifle. In full auto it was useless but impressive as hell. I do have an AR-15 now but I want an M-1A someday. I guess I am old school but shot for shot nothing compares to my Springfield O3-A3.
As a Small Arms Repairman in the Army (1980-1986) I worked for a short period of time at Anniston Army Depot. One of the lines was taking crated M14s and rebuilding them. They were then placed back in crates for storage. I am sure these were not the ones that were destroyed but are probably in use by other countries such as the Philippines. These rifles were rebuilt with the best parts and technology of the day. If you get your hands on one I am sure you won't be disappointed.
Excellent video! Thank you for taking the time to produce! 👌
A lot of Military Snipers loved a M-14. Excellent weapon. A service grade 14 with a 10x scope good to 800 any day
I'd rock it. Whoops um I did for 17 years.
We have a long ways to go before we create a weapon that will see nearly as much service as the spear
Love this series! Thanks for the work!!
Great video! Lots of information I had not heard before. The part about the steel-workers strike and imports is sobering. We've certainly paid a price for that.
M-14 were still being used after 1963. I was in military in 70's. I used that, till the Mattey's came in.
Excellent video and a lot of good information about this amazing rifle.
You have some of the best and most informative no BS vids on YT. Thumbs up and subbed.
2ndarymotion very kind of you sir!
Really enjoying this series. Keep it up!
This is probably the only time I've ever heard such a critical review about the M14! But most of what I've heard about it was from Vietnam veterans who were comparing it to the first generation of the M-16 with all of its issues. From just a fun to shoot perspective, the thing is awesome!
AnAngryBlack totally agree with you. I have not heard one negative thing before I begin research on this rifle
AnAngryBlack I think production inconsistencies were the ultimate downfall of the M14, rather than combat effectiveness..
I would take the M-1 and M-14 over the M-16 any day !!!!!
*Sees 1 reply*
*clicks and sees no reply*
Depends on the battlefield
Different cartridge. Lot's of great rifles fire .308 or 7.62x51 like FN SCAR. Or a Zastava in .308
Same here.
So you're saying you've never seen combat....
Every new gun goes through teething problems when they were corrected
It was a masterpiece !
All I can tell you as a Infantry man in Scout Platoon I was blessed with the opportunity to carry this amazing rifle in battle. In Afghanistan I had zero completes about the one I carried, it did everything I ask it to do and better, for the Job I was ask it to do with an optic and being semi, I had quick target acquisition capabilities with an amazing chambering.
I had a TRW M14 issued to me and loved it!
The M14 never really left the service you have the M14ERB, M21 & M25 that are still being used as Sniper Rifles. The SOCOM 14 is used by the Navy Seal's.
True! During the Klinton years they tried to pull and destroy most of them. Desert storm's successful use of the M14 and no more Klinton's in office saved them and helped launched the SOCOM 14.
Long Schnozzed Tribesman Well the M14 and it’s variants are still being used by the most powerful military in the history of the world. Guess what isn’t? The FAL, suck on them nuts.
The M14se "crazy horse" which is a stock M14 but is locked in semi is in service with the 101st airborne
Excellent history lecture, thanks for posting
I love all the history you put into your vids. Awesome!
I started to buy a CMP M1 Garand but for practical reasons I chose to buy a M1A. Although Ide love to have a M1 Garand for nostalgic reasons I love my M1A!
I just stumbled upon your channel by accident. Anyhow, I really like your comments about the M14 rifle. I did not know there were issues that you had mentioned with the M14.
I wonder why we don't hear more about those issues as opposed to the AR-15 issues that were prevalent early on in the rifles initial deployments?
The m14 has proven itself to be very adaptable over the year. From personal experience I had one bad firefight with my Mk14 EBR and that was because of hot ammo I stole from the gun team. I relied on this rifle and she served me well
If you TONG OIL the stock, you "Never" have to worry about ANY form of water. . . . its a "One Shot" deal, you do it ONCE, you never have to do it again !.
The gas system of the M14 does not need to be adjusted. It is the Cut-off and Expansion gas system. As soon as the hollow piston begins moving it cut off any further gas from entering the system. Thus it is truly self adjusting. It always takes in only the amount of gas it needs to function regardless of the condition of the weapon of ammo.
Max Headspace This is true
Which is much nicer than a Fal
Just asking what if the weapon is very fouled/dirty during combat, does the gas system adjust for this? That is one of points of being able to adjust the gas bypass to be able to sacrifice bullet speed and accuracy for being to keep rounds running thru the unit and prevent malfunctions.TR
Anthony Richard The need to increase the gas because the gun it dirty and fouled in my opinion is pointless. All the gas does is push the bolt back faster. Most if not all malfunctions are caused by the bolt going forward, so the power of the spring. If you gun is malfunctioning/jamming because of being dirty inceasing the gas used won't help. It just needs to be cleaned. Although there is a situation where this would make sense. That is in artic climates with below freezing temperatures where more gas might help to free up the action on the first round. But the M-14 was noted to preform very well in these conditions where the FAL struggled. Also in the sandbox the M-14 did quite well and the IDF found that the FAL does not preform well in sand/dust very well either. No need to tune the gas for different ammo with the M-14 with the automatic gas bleed off. But mud is where the FAL excels and the M-14 struggles. Mind you if you get a considerable amount of mud in ANY rifles action it will fail.
Good point, cant always clean weapon in combat though. Maybe someone needs to make an adjustable or compensation recoil spring to bring unit back to battery in dirty conditions. Wishful thinking but someone may glean this thought. I want patent rights lol,I have an FAL with modified bolt for sandy conditions. I also have an AR10, G3 Clone, Vintage M1 Garand. No m14 yet. M1 Garand probably easiest to shoot in regards to recoil and getting back on target except rear site not too good. FAL is really nice shooting as well.Did the IDF ever field the M14? I know they modified the FAL and AK and made the Galil. Want to ad M14/M1A to my collection. Any recommendations
Cheers
Why we ever dumped the M-14 for the AR platform still eludes me. Sure the AR is highly manageable, light and accurate. The M-16 A1 that I trained with as a young Marine never failed to hit it's mark or fire. Yet, the gas piston system of the M-14 and the FN FAL make both more of a reliable workhorse combat rifle like an AK-47 with much better range and accuracy than any AK could dream. Thanks for featuring this personal favorite and what may well be the finest battle rifle ever made.
It's actually a myth that the DI system in the AR-15 makes for an inherently less reliable weapon, it's just as much down to quality control in manufacturing, and the reliability of the magazines. Most AR-15 stoppages are caused by faulty mags, and most modern, current-issue AR-15s are so well-made that they can be fired dry until fouling cakes on the bolt carrier group and starts flicking out broken clumps of the stuff from the ejector port. The real problem in Vietnam was less precise manufacturing, poorer-quality polymers in the furniture, and also appallingly low-quality ammo alongside poor initial (re)training and (re)certification on the platform. Some early field manuals even billed the rifle as a "self-cleaning" weapon, which is utterly laughable and no doubt contributed to its horrendous track record. The ammo which was often issued with it was so badly-made (And not what the rifle was designed to fire) that it would often pinwheel in the air, creating keyhole-shaped cuts in foliage. And this is all _before_ you get to the fact that it was still an immature platform and design and manufacturing tweaks to make it work better had not yet been implemented.
It's the same reason AKs have a very mixed track record on the American civilian market: Most of the ones you can buy in the U.S. are not built very well, and/or don't play nice with certain kinds of ammo. (Ex.: Some Wolf AK ammo is lacquered. This means if you fire the rifle a lot in a short period of time, the lacquer will melt and gunk up the firing pin.) Even for cheap, loose-tolerance Soviet equipment, if you don't adhere to design specs, it stops working properly. Contrast this with the M-14, which is an iterative development of the original M1 Garand platform, and was, itself, a mature design with high manufacturing standards and the benefit of advance time to work out kinks in its design even before the Vietnam War. Everyone knew how to use it, what to expect from it, and how _not_ to use it, which cannot be said of its replacement during Vietnam. Of course it was more reliable. It had every advantage it could have asked for in that department handed to it, and was pitted against a brand-new rifle which was often misused horribly by a military which did not fully understand it yet. The M16, too, did what it was asked to, and people were confused when it choked on what it _wasn't_ asked to do, just as much as the M-14 when it got slammed against its own shortcomings, and they were numerous enough that even with the M16's spotty early track record, the military stuck with it for half a century henceforth.
Are you arguing against 5.56 also, or just the M-16? So if you redesign the M-14 in 5.56 you get the Mini-14. Many regard the mini-14 as mediocre, or at least not leaps and bounds above the M-16. An actual scaled down FN FAL might be cool, but the closest we've come to that is the FNC which is meh
wow great video, love all the history and research that went into making this video. what a refreshing thing to see. New SUB!
David Lang thank you VERY much!
Good stuff~!! I learned a lot and you obviously know your stuff. Thanks.
Good review. Completely correct: If'n. I've deployed (6 times) and the LAST thing I need in my tiny brain is cook-off safety. I will chew ass 24/7 if the simplest instruction/training "keep barrel facing up/down range AT ALL TIMES" must be followed w "as well, when you have ammunition at any time keep that barrel pointed at the sky" doesn't fit.
Great video bro and a great history to learn. Maybe do a cold war era pistol series next.
The Archangel might do that
Browning HP your 1911 and Walther P38
Charles van Dijk All of those are from before the cold war but they are all interesting.
Your presentations are very well done.
WarHammer1911A1 thanks man
Great video. Lots of info. Thanks.
Love my 14/M1A...Qualified with it...open sights of course...500 yards. Expert. We had them in Vietnam ... We MARINES were the last to transition into the 16. Those who qualified expert got to keep them till the end of your tour. Your vid showed barrel rise in full auto. I believe ... You were not holding on to it properly and the rise was exaggerated on your part. We...never...had that problem in combat. Never. Do some pushups or something. :-) :-)
Fucking A. I hate to hear civilians trying to act like they are the experts on military weapons like this dick head. The 10.8 lbs were worth it and those who complained were weak pussies. Served 66-69 army,qualified expert on the 14.During BCT when we were issued the large heavy battle rifle cause that's it's designation,not assault rifle which is the for shit M-16s designation. Many guys (draftees)had never shot any type of weapon. To get them over their fear, a black D.I. when we went to the range for our 1st firing of this big intimidating weapon He said to our group of about 15,"you have to hold this weapon very tight against your shoulder or it will hurt your shoulder, but if you hold it like I just said it's fine and I'll prove this". He then put it by his groin inches above his prick and fired 3 rounds down range to the amazement of these guys.Then he said something like "Now do I look like I'm hurt". After that these guys were good to go.Since I'd used a 20 gauge it was no big deal to me. I loved that very accurate, powerful no issues great rifle when I was when deployed to Asia 67. Then that piece of shit M-16 began to replaced it around 66 which caused the deaths of about 2,500 men from jamming caused by the army not using the powder Stoner designed it to use, and instead used the more powerful, dirtier burning powder which caused fouling; powder that was designed for the M-14 -M-60 of which suited both of those great weapons. Since the army had shit loads of the newer powder they ignored Stoners warnings, by taking the cheaper route. It took thousands of soldiers to die from jammed 16's and 4 congressional hearing for the army and DoD to correct its many issues. It's had about 249 mods and fixes since it was put in service in 1966. Finally the army etc has plans for the .338 lapura round in a new rifle to replace that 50 yr old for shit relic that's only good only for up to about 300 yards and room clearing. That's the govt. for you, use the cheaper propellant instead of the one Stoner told them to use because it was not designed for the dirty burning, more powerful one on hand. Due more powerful it'd fire at a faster rate which caused the extractor to rip the lip off the fucking case then your ass was done. About 2500 soldiers were KIA in Nam with their jammed M-16 by them. The fucking army and DoD needed crucified for the deaths of all those brave young men by being cheap ass scum..Moral of this, is the govt.can do whatever they wish with our troops and damn the consequences because they are above the law.
The M-14 with selector switch is supposed to be fired on automatic with attached bipods extended. Carried one for eight months in VN Echo Co. 2/3. Always carried one magazine loaded with all tracers and another with tips of rounds snipped off just enough to expose some lead. Also two taped upside down with tape from Corpsman. Also had M-14 grenade launcher attachment and crimp rounds then turn gas valve to align with barrell before chambering the crimp round manually.
M-14 with the 50 round drum magazine. Sweet!
As much as I LOVE that rifle, you've got to be "Kidding", about a 50rd drum . . . talk about HEAVY ! ( The ":Ammo", plus the drum, has GOT to weigh 10lbs at least )
I was issued an M14 without a selector during Army Basic Training B-2-1 Tank Hill Fort Jackson SC in March of '66. It was the first time I fired anything but a .22 caliber rifle. I liked it. My particular rifle was newer than most of the others that were issued to my company. I ended up shooting expert with it. Six months later I was issued another one at Di An RVN First Infantry Div. I was transferred to Task Force Oregon and the Americal Division in the spring of 67 where I received my first "Made by Mattel" M16. A lot of people were having trouble with theirs. I didn't have a single problem, but I kept my weapon spotless, gas tube included. I currently own an M1A Supermatch, a Socom 16, and 5 AR's in various configurations. Both weapons were effective for me in combat. The M14 proved deadly out to 454 paces. It is part of America's history and mine.
Good information well presented. Thank you.
I pulled butts for the last Marine recruits to qualify with the M14
I have a National Match M1A with stainless barrel. A large NightForce scope sits atop this weapon. It's an ABSOLUTE TACK DRIVER. I love me some M14! all day long!!!
love the M14/M1A variants, looking at the SOCOM 16, ty for the quality of work that you do!
Mike Mason thank you!
Carried a H&R. M-14 in ICorps for 18 more. Loved it. "THIS is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine."
That Fal gas system sure was neato when the m14 beat it in the artic weather trials
tom riemenschneider lol. We left out the part where Springfield went over their rifles with a fine tooth comb for months before they went to the Arctic trials. Didn’t want to bash the rifle too bad.
Legally Armed America that is true but Fn could have done the same or at least give guidelines for adjusting the gas system. What's getting under my skin is that m14 under proper quality control would be a better rifle, the downfall of the m14 was because we needed a battle implement we could produce tomorrow. Which led to poor quality control and calibration of manufacturing machinery, (which is fucked up considering the navy made a whole video on the importance of calibration and quality control in WWII) I personally believe that the M14 design is a superior design which led to the longevity of the design. However during a time of war we cut corners. Which led to problems like inaccuracies due to improper bore diameters. The M14 was a solid battle implement that got the shaft. The problem with the m14 is not the design but our countries inability to deliver our "American Quality" I hope you realize I'm not on here to attack you I'm very interested on why you have such a bias to the Fal. During the Six days war captured AKs were found to be "More reliable and controllable and the required maintenance was lower which was better for conscripted troops.
The much-maligned (justly so in many instances) regime of Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara is to blame for many of the problems you cite. McNamara and his "whiz kids" with their slide rules and mainframe computers thought they knew how to run the military better than men who had made it their life's work. Any new piece of military equipment, whether it is a tank, ship, plane or gun - is going to have problems in the field, if forced into action too soon, before the bugs can be ironed out. That turned out to be the case with the M-14, and - proving that the DOD/Pentagon doesn't always learn from its mistakes - again with the M-16. Put a new rifle into the field without sorting it out properly - finding and fixing manufacturing defects, training the skilled technicians and tradesmen needed, the engineers, etc. as well as getting the ammunition where it needs to be, training the troops - and you are asking for problems. I also fault McNamara for disbanding our national armory at Springfield, Mass. - which had been established by George Washington - in favor of cronyism on the part of his pals in the defense industry. The other problem with the M-14 - well, two other problems - were that John C. Garand was not consulted during the latter stages of the design process for the M-14, and also the fact that the new main battle rifle was designed basically by committee. The specifications laid down called for one - one! - weapon to replace the M-1 Garand, M-1 Carbine, M3 Grease Gun SMG, and the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR). Only someone high on something would believe that one design could replace all of these very different types of firearms. Actually, when you consider all of the gamesmanship and nonsense that surrounded the new design, the M-14 turned out quite well - an excellent, if somewhat conservative and traditional, battle rifle. An evolution of the M-1, and not a fresh sheet of paper as the FAL and G3/CETME designs were.
Legally, the blame for that shameful episode falls upon the Ordnance Dept. proper and not necessarily Springfield Armory alone. The folks at Springfield, after all, took their marching orders from Ordnance, Big Army and the DOD/Pentagon.
TRW - Thompson, Ramo and Wooldridge - consistently turned out the best M14s because they were primarily an aerospace firm used to doing high-stakes, high-precision work that had to be done right the first time. The other contractors and subcontractors should have taken a page from their book, so to speak, in terms of how they operated. Remember, though, that lacking the pressure of an on-going world war, the government could not compel (at least not easily and without ruffling some feathers) the kind of cooperation seen during the war years 1941-1945. True the Cold War was on, but times were still different during the 1950s. And the DOD/Pentagon were guilty of rushing the rifle into service before it had been adequately squared-away, sorted out mechanically, and so forth. Teething problems are extremely common in any new mechanical device, and if the folks running things don't take that into account, there are almost always problems down the line. It's why the navy does "shake-down cruises" on newly-commissioned vessels.
As I read it for the adoption of the M14 was after WW2, The Army, seeing how a company of infantrymen could have m1 garands, m1 carbines, thompson submachine guns, M3 grease guns, BAR, Springfield rifles as their DMR, decided to find a new rifle that could replace all of those and thus simplify ammo needs for an infantry company.
That was the advertisement for the M14, but everyone inside the military knew it was always meant to replace the Garand and nothing else.
It's always a danger to write a design specification which is too broad; you end up with a tool which is mediocre at everything it does, rather than excellent at one or two things. The M14 ended up being a decent design, especially given all of the drama which attended its development - but the military was kidding itself when they thought it would successfully replace all of those different classes of weapons. A battle rifle isn't, by definition, a submachine gun - the former fires a full-power rifle cartridge, whereas the latter fires a pistol cartridge. If you merge the two properly, you get an assault rifle - a weapon designed to incorporate the best features of battle rifles and SMGs in one platform, but that's not what the M14 ended up being. Nor did it end up being a light machine gun. At best, you could call it an automatic rifle - since it lacked a quick-change barrel, and could only be fed from box magazines. The M14 was supposed to replace the BAR, but it ended up being an automatic rifle, similar to the Browning Automatic Rifle but not clearly superior to it.
It was essentially a heavily modified M-1. Garand went back and put in the box mag and the select fire function in that he had originally designed in the late 20's-early 30's, but which the army vetoed because they thought a detachable mag would get lost, and select fire would waste ammo.
Tadicuslegion78 yeah but that never happened oh they replaced the garand ,carbines and smgs the BAR ,but the, m-14 proved to be shit in automatic so they tuned the full auto out allowed troops to continue to use carbines and smgs when they could until a old air force fox told McNamara to fuck off and ordered ar-15s
In spite of the us ordnance dept. And the secretary of defence!
Read the history of the m-16 and how Curtis lemay told off
Both US ordnance dept and the secretary of defence McNamara!
But the light and heavy Browning caliber .30 machine guns, the Springfield, Garand and Browning Automatic rifle all used the .30 cartridge. The Thompson submachine gun, the grease gun and the Colt .45 pistol all used the same cartridge. We had the best weapons ever fielded. I think the reason for changes was to bring business to certain congress critters districts. The same thing is going on today, the warthog is a perfect weapon, needing only maintenance and occasional tweaking. But it's under attack and probably will be replaced by something that may not be as good.
I enjoyed both you and your video. Let me help you with the M-14 and CMP. I am a retired attorney, a gun collector, and was the armorer at my local high school in New Orleans where at that time ('67-'71) live M-1, M-79, 1911s, and M-14 (four of which were select fire). My father was a B.A.R. Man in the 6th MARDIV during WWII on Okinawa. I attempted to legally buy him a B.A.R. until his death in 2003. Most B.A.R.s were destroyed, like the M-14, because the select system on both can be reactivated with moderate skills. Many people think that an entire squad in the USMC received select fire M-14s. The Marines over there may have "remedied that situation; however, usually two men received select fire, and the rest were given semi-auto only fire. For four years I cleaned & dreamed of having a select fire M-14. In my senior year, someone drove a truck through the armory wall, and stole all of the M-14s (select & semi-only) along with crates of WWII 1911A1s, and the functional M-1s. Regarding CMP, I am not going to kiss anyone's ass in order for them to pick out a rifle or carbine for me. They have already stated that they are not capable of assuring that no one can re-activate the M-14...mostly because they know very little about weapons. They only sell them, with morons picking your gun for you. No thanks, I'll pass on CMP. But I enjoy all of my Springfield M1A1s, so I'll answer any legal question that I can help you on. (The High School was Jesuit High School.)
Thank you an informative straight forward video. Good man.
Gary Vallone thank you!
I haven't heard of any of these hick ups for the m14. But its a great rifle to this day.
Look up the M14ERB, M14E1, M14E2, M21 & M25 . There still in service being used as Sniper Rifles and DMR's.
I was referring to the production of the m14 not the rebirthing of it in the dmr and sniper roles
As far as the regular M14 it's used as a traning rifle and for ceremonial purposes. The M21 & M25 are still in service. The M14ERB might still be used. The SOCOM Mini 14 is manly used by the Navy Seal's . Rumor has it the Navy Seal's have keep some regular M14's .The Navy also keeps some for shooting mines in the water don't know why when they could just use the M16 maybe the 55.6 round dosent have enough penitration the M14's 7.62 round might give the Navy what it needs.
If you mean modifications to make the M14 more modrenized to today's standards there out there they also have modifications for the SKS .
If you mean Hiccups like wepons malfunctions. Failure to Extract and problems with the Spindle Valve that's pretty easy to fix . Other than that there's pretty much no malfunctions from a M14 unless it's caused by the shooter loading the rounds improperly into the magazine that could cause it to jam .
I carried an M-14 outside Pleiku in 1969. Thank god I did not need to carry it very far! We were a maintenance Bn located well forward of artillery hill and pulled guard duty on our own perimeter as well as the giant ammo dump even further out. Here is a list of the things I routinely carried into those twenty five foot towers.
1) M-60 machine gun and one or two one hundred belted rounds of ammo.
2) M-79 grenade launcher with ammo already in the tower.
3) M-14 bullet launcher and at least ten twenty-round magazines. Back in the day I remember claiming I carried four hundred rounds but find that hard to believe these days. Apparently I believed it at the time. I do remember quadrupling up on ammo pouches and stuffing magazines in unlikely flack jacket places. But TWENTY box magazines!?
4) I do not remember if we were issued the detonator for the 12 clamor mines or if it was left in the tower.
Here is my commentary on the M-14. All us garrison guys were trained on both M-14 and M -16 but for garrison duty preferred the M-14 because the M-16 was rumored to be dirt temperamental and need lots of cleaning. I do not remember every completely tearing down the M-14. Probably should have, I suppose. But none of them ever malfunctioned. Not that we shot them all that often.
Here is a funny boot camp anecdote (me being a draftee). We marched out to the firing range in order to zero our M-14s. At the range were were instructed to load three rounds into the box magazine, lock and load and carefully squeeze of round number one. I believe my smart ass drill sergeant deliberately provided my with a fully automatic set on full auto. And remember, these weapons have foldable butt plates for steadiness in prone position.
I was not new to firearms and carefully squeezed off the first round from about a seven pound trigger. Well. All three twelve guage worthy rounds flew downrange in about 1/3 of a second or less. The rifle relocated itself a foot and a half to my right hand side and my shoulder was simply relocated. That gd butt plate did not extent out at 90 degrees. Instead it formed an nice bear trap V shape into my shoulder.
An M-14 on fully automatic is more threat to the operator then to anyone downrange. I never ran across another fully automatic version.
Used an M-14 as a member of the Anti-Mine Gunnery detail on the USS Constant. Ours didn't have full auto capability, but they were solid weapons and a lot of fun to shoot. Good times!
Great info and research. Well done.
Don't forget to put this in the cold war playlist. :)
As left-handed shooter, with the sling wrapped tightly around my right hand, in the prone position, with my 195 pounds of hard-core body weight pushed hard into the butt of the M14 ... the rifle barely even 'flinched' with each trigger pull. I hit 10 of 10 bullseyes at P.I. in the midst of a rain squall that literally flooded the 500 firing line so bad I had water up to my chin, but it was Dry in the Pits...It was Qual Day and I shot a perfect score! (And a slow sea gull with a spotter round.)
It was 1971, and we still used the M14 in Boot Camp...but of course, my Service Rifle was the M16. I always liked the fire power of the M14, but at nearly twice the weight of the rifle and ammo it certainly was no fun to haul around, compared to the M16.
Floyd Burdett awesome shooting! Thank you for your service, sir
After carrying the M-60, an M-14 was pretty light in comparison.
Another great video... Great rifle. Love the history you're giving us.
An M14 with a drum magazine is such a cursed image.
FWIW, the M16 at that Vietnam Era time was being issued using 20 round magazines very regularly.. The Ak-47 rocks the magazine in place, yet I've never of that being a drawback to the Ak-47's design.. The M14 always gets shunned, and idk why.. The rifle seemed to be preferred in place of the M16 by many veterans whom had to fight with them.. and I know I'm not supposed to compare, but I wonder for every one M14 stock that swelled, how many M16's jammed, rusted, cracked, ripped rims of cartridges? I do think production instability was more of a major factor to the 'downfall' of the M14, then was actual combat effectiveness..
Both the M-14 and M-16 were designs forced into the field before they were fully-sorted out. The politicians, CEOS and generals and other brass who tout these new weapons systems are always anxious to debut them - whether they are really properly sorted out or not. Seen it over and over again, in the history of the U.S. - whether it is in tanks, vehicles, ships, planes, firearms, artillery, ammunition, you name it. Good men died in the Second World War when Liberty ships, it was discovered, would break in half when hit amidships by German torpedoes. Why? Because of a design defect - turns out that Liberty ships were built in two halves, which were then welded together. This point was where they were breaking apart - and the design was modified to make this problem less-likely. At least the Liberty ships had the excuse of an ongoing, hot war in which shipping was desperately needed - and despite the drawbacks, it was an excellent design critical to our war effort.
"The Ak-47 rocks the magazine in place, yet I've never of that being a drawback to the Ak-47's design"
Because AK mags rock into place easily, but M14 magazines require some fiddling. If you watch the Official US Army videos about M14 operation it's amusing to see troops struggle a bit with the demonstration reloads. Even the Mini14 changes how the magazine rocks in because the M14's design was so poor.
" for every one M14 stock that swelled, how many M16's jammed, rusted, cracked, ripped rims of cartridges?"
The problem was only improperly built M16s would jam (perhaps even sabotaged, there s some good videos about how the Ordance corps sabotaged the M16 to try to save the M14) but properly built M14s would always swell - not the M14's only problem, also. The entire design philosophy behind the M14 was totally out of date.
Sleeping with my Springfield Armory M1A Scout Squad tonight. 😳
Atlanta Light 😂
Im sleeping with my Mini 14
I have a rusted out Lee Enfield
"What's your rifle's name, Private Pyle?"
i always wanted the M1A SOCOM 16 but im poor...
Excellent presentation.. Excellent speaker.. Very clearly understood and points well made...
GREAT video , you obviously have very solid research skills. Keep up the awesome work!
The M-14 rifle is my favorite NATO rifle! Everything about is simply awesome!
loved the M-!4, got to vietnam was issued the very toy looking m-16 ( NOTHING BUT A SUPPED UP 22) went for a m-60 MG. then to a AK47 after enemy contact. never saw a m-14 in vietnam. LZ BLACK HAWK , pleiku. 4th div.
I like how fluid and consistent your commentary is bud, spitting some good knowledge our way, great job! Despite it having it's quirks, this is the coolest, most badass rifle I've ever owned, and I wouldn't trade it for anything except another M14
Bob Saget thank you, sir. And yes, these are absolutely beautiful and well-made rifles.
Fasinating stuff, thanks for posting
I used to work for a guy who was on an army sniper team in the 1950s, he said the M14 was his favorite rifle of all time
3rd us infantry, THE OLD GUARD (tog), E company, I loved this weapon, vs the M16, (served 1987 - 1991).
paul mc Rock on, brother!
I was Charlie Guard 80-83. I'd rather carry an M-14 any day
I started in Charlie till my clearance dropped then off to CCG, then 1st platoon Echo. 87 eh? Echo? I promise you we know each other. Remember a scrub E3 getting into it with Top Smith?
Was the company armorer with 160 M-14's and ran record fire at Caserma Ederle in Vicenza Italy from 1967-69. Very accurate description of the 14...and also in honor guard where I threw the 14 around in parades. Thanks for the show!
Robert Wolfram thank you sir!
Superb. Fantastic History. Subbed !
THE Marines rifle
My dad made the transition from the m1 to the m14, he said liked it but sometimes he cracked the upper hand guard when presenting arms for inspection. The flash hider was an issue too, he said he bent one, lost his zero.
mcqueenfanman...When they first came out they were issued with the front handguard that had the elongated cooling slots. Those were very susceptible to cracking from slot to slot. Later, the handguard that had no cooling slots were issued and that solved the cracking problem for us. I’m talking 1961 in Germany here. I didn’t see anyone ever have issues with the flash suppressor getting bent though.
This is the channel I've been looking for :)
Alex Peralta Bermudez hahaha! I hope so!
Just found your channel. I just subbed. I really like your cold war rifle series!