The French Apple | The Story of Thomson Computers
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
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●REVISION - A small revision was made to clarify the TRS80 Colour Computer has the same CPU as the Thomson's and not the TRS80 model I.
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● Description
In the late 70's and early 90's France was more aware than most of the impact home technology could have, and The State were pushing for technological independence with projects like the Minitel network.
Step forward Thomson Computers with their range of computers to mimic the success of Apple in the USA and put France on the forefront of home micros. But did they succeed?
● Music
Ether_Oar - The Whole Other
Komputo - Francis Preve
Lude Illa - Joe Bagale
Otis McDonald - Untitled
Smooth - Text Me Records / Bobby Renz
Vamos - Text Me Records / Bobby Renz
The Machine Assembly - The Whole Other
(This revised release includes a small correction clarifying the CPU model in the TRS80 Colour Computer)
Thank you all for watching, and a special thank you to Bastien for getting the Thomson MO5E over to me from France. If you enjoyed this then please take a moment subscribe for more retro computer goodness. Did you use a Thomson or any other French micros in the 80's? Maybe you have a Thomson laptop now... let us know in the comments!
Neil - RMC
RetroManCave hi love your channel, I would like to ask you a question in regards to repairs. I have an old pong clone that I really want to get going. I have worked out parts that need replacing but cant find a name for them due to very little info on the internet for these old console. Where do you find motherboard layout and or part names? I'm really noob but find it very interesting
You have the voice and inflexion of an Open University TV lecturer from the 1970's.
This is not a bad thing . . .
I worked for RCA after Thomson purchased them. They were no Apple, in any form. Because of French law, they were all screwy. 35 hour MAX work week, the company was run by a French BUREAUCRAT, and they reason they were stupid enough to buy RCA, is because they were even further behind.
That's when I learned, socialism really does not work.
@@fuzzywzhe In those days, work was 39 hours/week, not 35.
35 hours/week only happened in 2002.
“An Apple turnover Thomson very much wanted a slice of”. Pure scriptwriting genius sir.
For the story, the French state wanted a machintosh with 256 mb of Ram byt steeve jobs refused and they goes appart
14:15 - the relief where he relives getting an ST and not a Thomson by his parents ... so palpable 🥳
Fantastic programme. Worthy of a public broadcast!
Very kind thank you it was a pleasure to share with you guys
I think about that all the time. How the best retro computer UA-cam people would get me to watch TV in a way nothing else has been able to since I was a kid, haha.
My youth... sigh.... I loved these computer classes in primary school with the MO5s and TO7s. Even if we didn't really have Thomson at home (Oric then Amstrad were the brands to have then in France), seeing a MO5 or TO7 nowadays bring tears to my eyes..
Great video!
I took a "Computer Concepts" course which had BASIC, using an IBM 360. I received a TI 99 4A and learned BASIC on it, too!
This was really interesting. A piece of history that I don't ever remember hearing about at the time in the UK or covered anywhere else since. Like the Spectrum clones video you did it's a fascinating insight. Looking forward to Part 2.
Yes interesting video - I came back to this video after seeing the Thomson briefly mentioned in Retro Gamer (when they were talking about a game called Bactron)
In France they were very popular in schools, my mom had one she bought with her brother.
I had a TO6 and a TO9 for about a year. The issue with french equipment is the delay to obtain the computer, the total lack of customer service and the difficulties to get compatible accessories.
Like many french, I dropped Thomson for Amstrad in 1986 and it was a delightful experience.
Another important point is the availability of many books related to programming for Amstrad and the Z80. Also many computer magazines were available for the Amstrad platform. I learned assembler and pascal language thank to my CPC 6128.
In 1989 I switched to Amiga 500 and again it was a bliss. 3D image and animation, Pascal and C programming. With the 1 Mb memory board (one of the few at the time) and the Motorola 68000, the sky was the limit.
For a moment I thought my message was deleted! Then I realised that this is a new version of the video.
Great video, as always! Keep up the good work.
That reminded me of when I used home micros in school. In the States, my school had TRS-80 Color Computers, which was what I also had at home, and we learned Logo on it. They were networked together to save & load programs quicker than using tapes but it had to be done one...computer...at...a...time....without any screw ups. Usually though the computers used in schools (Apple II's & BBC Micros) were too expensive to be purchased for home use so we had cheaper ones like the C64's & ZX's.
I remember, as a teenager, having worked on a laser show project, programmed and piloted from a MO5. It was loads of fun. A lot of French highschoolers learned to program in LOGO with this stuff.
I used those MO5 as a kid in france ! Even back then we realised they were crappy . When my parents bought an Amstrad CPC 6128 + it was even more obvious.
In fact, all my friend had CPCs. It probably influenced my carrier as a computer technician though .
One thing that was very cool was this stylus.
My junior school had a Spectrum 48K with a microdrive, senior school had Acorn Achimedes - We all used to play a heavily copied version of Virus when the teachers buggered off.
Also Thomas is my name too.
Virus or Zarch was great. My school archimedes had a zx spectrum emulator on it, we used to play Great Escape on it
Fascinating stuff. I liked the bit about winning a computer with a pair of underpants. You don't hear enough stories like that any more.
RetroManCave!!! amazing video. So much history in this video. I have always wondered what home computers the French and other countries in Europe had. Thank you and you just got a new sub
Thank you I'm glad you enjoyed it
During these years , France had a system called Minitel which offered a kind of internet provided by phone (you had to call the 3615 (or the 3616 etc) and you had to write a code (AIRFRANCE))on your Minitel and you were able to buy a train or plane ticket with it. And France telecom gave it you for free, you just had to pay the communication which was quite expensive.
I just saw a video on the minitel a few days ago and it was very interesting. The french used to always come up with very unique things back in the day but it seems they stopped doing that (their cars had this peculiar look for a long time, you could always tell it was french)
I had no idea you spoke French! Well, as far as pronouncing French names goes. Amazing video, I love it!
Neil, brilliant work as always. As a cave dweller from "across the pond", I enjoy earning about machines I never knew existed. Cheers!
Very interesting video. I love learning about retro computing through your videos; they're always so well-produced and thorough. Good work; thank you.
Amazing video this is Neil. I'm not very knowledgeable regarding French technology, but after seeing this, it's really an eye opener for me to be curious on what the French have to offer in regards to technology. 8^)
Nice work as always Neil. This made my day for sure,. 8^)
Anthony..
Thank you as always for watching Anthony I appreciate it
Thompson Were also manufacturing TV cameras and other broadcast equipment like professional vcrs as well although in the 90's they would just rebrand SONY equipment with their name, although I don't know maybe they had a deal with SONY to share their tech together. They were a big company fingers in many pies.
Thomson had a wonderful Broadcasting subcorp that Jack Fucking Chirac totally destroyed in early 2000ies.
these historical videos are brilliant, I'd imagine your letter to bring back the Computer Programme's gonna pop up in the mail any day now
My brother had a Thomson Computer. RIP. Greetings from Germany
I still remember touching the MO-5 when I was in elementary school. There was a computer room just for that, and being brought there was like winning the lottery. We would learn a bit of LOGO, the optical pen was so cool and I really wanted to see the "turtle" to be at once operated by the teacher. Unfortunately never happened. I remember that by my 4th grade my teacher acquired an Olivetti PC1 and spent a whole night to tame the beast, and me finally got our first family computer in the form of an Amstrad CPC6128 (bundled with the color monitor, the TV tuner, a compilation of games and even a computer desk) :).
So I love your stuff and I give you immense credit for doing those brilliant documentary on complex and convoluted decade long industrial saga on a foreign company, it's not like there are a ton of content on the subject, but may I add that the hard core of Thompson nowadays is not in technicolor at all, it's in Thales which actually mean Thompson Alcatel Electronic Systems, and is to this day huge huge giant that is doing very well, from weapons radars train signaling the British Queen Elizabeth Class, satellites and even space station modules, if you are in europe your VISA might be a Thales card
So in the end while the consumer electronics didn't pan out, the government managed to make back its money from the nationalization dozens of time over since then
Random fact: Olivetti re-released the MO6 under the name of "Olivetti PC128 Prodest", with a slight translation of the startup menu of the machine in Italian and a different color scheme.
I honestly think that, as an old computer, the MO6/Prodest design is fantastic, and when my machine will die I'll probably keep the case.
I also think that a video on Olivetti would be needed, it was a pretty interesting company... That died (as a major IT company) due to the poor decisions of the italian government.
Man, Olivetti doesn't get much love nowadays. :(
That's true... Well, at least now Ivrea is a UNESCO site, so who knows
Wow ! I know i'm late on that video, i just discovered this channel, but those are the first computers i ever used when i was still in elementary school ! What a memory !
I am french and good job for all the researchs !
Merci!
Long live the MO5 :-D
but with mechanical keyboard, of course.
Damn, these machines used NMOS instead of CMOS and could get quite WARM.
Oh and it's a deliciously simple and well engineered system that is exhaustively documented so it's very easy to build I/O boards, replace parts or extend features !
On a jamais été bien bon dans le secteur de l’électronique les français ^^; . Other wise, it was fun to hear the story of a "french" compagny by a english men xD !
Please post part 2; this was really interesting and entertaining!
Very interesting. I love that area where designers had to make hard decisions about the hardware (pun). Merci.
great video!, I didn't even know these computers existed!!.
Awesome video, never knew of this company, but kind of glad we never got them here in the USA, and I got the VIC-20, and later on the C64, C128, and Apple II IE as my 8 bit computers before moving onto PC clones.
whow! never heard or see one of this pearls ... thanks for the review and historicle view - thumps up!
The only reason why the Thomson was somehow successful is because it had a semi-protected market. Even though it was expensive for its so-so-hardware specs, the French press was very bias towards Thomson. And the fact it was in French schools provided a huge amount of publicity for the company. Thomson barely sold any of its computers outside of France.
this makes me wonder which computers (and consumer products in general) have been made with the least number of compromises that were still priced reasonably.
There's one on eBay, reasonably priced, and it says it works! Fantastique!
FYI, while mentioning "plan informatique pour tous" initiator Jean-Jacques Servan-Schreiber, you've put a video of Laurent Fabius. I'm nickpicking because I like everything else. keep it up.
Fantastic and really interesting video....thanks Neil. 👍🏻
The guy at 12:20 looks 100% like young Michel Platini
I used a brilliant Thomson DVB-T box for my CRT for years untill I finally gave in and bought an LCD tv...
I was working for a company that worked on troubleshooting set-top-boxes running Linux in the early 2010s... Thompson/Technicolor computers are still alive and well... just not immediately obvious that they're computers anymore.
As you mentioned SCART... I've got to throw in my obligatory "fascinating fact" regarding SCART. Even though it's an acronym for "Syndicat des Constructeurs d'Appareils Radiorécepteurs et Téléviseurs" nobody in France ever calls it SCART... Still when I was working in that job I just mentioned, one of our French programmers was all "huh? What is 'SCART'?" because in France it's always called "Péritel".... (shrugs)
Another story that sadly ends with agonisingly dull "IBM PC compatibility".
My childhood was also DOMINATED by the ATARI ST!!! I think it had the BEST PIRATE SCENE going.. it was almost like a small community.. you could read about what was going on in the groups scrollers.. BEEF's .. BREAKTHROUGHS.. GREETINGS of course :) I ended up reverse engineering GAMES for a living eventually.. this had such a profound affect on me... In comparison, i always felt the AMIGA PIRATE SCENE was pretty COLD!!! I think it had a LOT to do with the ATARI ST scene being MAINLY based in the UK!! I know a lot of groups came from FRANCE, FINLAND, GERMANY etc etc.. but the BIG GROUPS!! such as MEDWAY BOYS, POMPEY PIRATES etc etc all came from the UK.. the AMIGA scene seemed to be run firmly in the EUROPEAN countries.. germany.. sweden, holland etc etc.. I know its not PC to talk about PIRATING GAMES .. but when ur 12 years old in 1990 and get a second hand ST.. the first think u do is lay down 10 quid on 20 cheap blank disks :) You couldnt even get a NEW game for that... and i may have been thick as a tree stump at 12.. but even i could see that 20 disks FULL OF GAMES (atari st scene always had more than one game on a disk) was better than 1 bargain game for 10 quid! :) MY only regret is that it took me 5 more years to learn ASSEMBLER.. when i was 17 i taught it myself when i got to college.. the information was finally out there.. on this CRAZY NEW THING!! called the INTERWEBS :) Stay cool my fellow pirates!! :)
11:50 Michel Platini lol for the Mo5 Michel Platini serie...
Bought loads of their Tellys over the years,they made some nice CRT ones.
I've interviewed a couple of French programmers for Retro Gamer, and they said their main memories was the terrible disk interface - frequently it would not save properly and you would lose your work!
Just a little bit of information about the LOGO Turtle program described by Olivier : it seems at first absurd for it to have a "lower / raise the pen" command, but in fact it was intended to be used with a little "Turtle robot" hooked with a cable to the MO5, and the robot was outfitted with a simple pen and placed on a big sheet of paper, to draw what was programmed by the students.
Alas, most of the schools didn't wanted to get the robot with their package, as it was an optional peripheral (and quite expensive), so they only used the on screen rendition of the program to do the drawings.
I myself have seen this turtlebot only once in Highschool, used with some T07 or some other Thomson in end of life around 1994....
We had the same turtle here in the UK for the BBC Micro, but I never got to see one. Turtles were for rich schools 😁
@@RMCRetro Anyway from what I saw they weren't very reliable in the end, I mean you could get better results by strapping a paperboard pen to a real land turtle and let it roam free on the paper ^^°
that's a nice vidéo ! as usual ;) , I'm French and I remember this curious computer with pen, I used it in a computer club association in my city in the 80's , but at school we had the MSX ZX81 lol ! learning basic and switching to Dallas series cause it was connected to the TV lol ! I have a traineeship at Thomson (army) company and it's funny to see that they used the same processor than "crotale" missiles ! once again France loose.... , same goupil....... 1mhz cpu ! against the C64.....
Thomson...I'll never forget that name. Horrible memories of terrible TVs and VCRs...
At that time there was a kind of holy war between PC and MC Intosh user. If the French had caved in to Apple that would have been the death of the PC !!
Nowadays, Thomson consumer electronic branded products are made by external companies that pay a license to technicolor (like TCL for TVs), hoping a better market penetration.
I lived all this!
[copying from previous video revision] When i was a kid i got an Olivetti Prodest Pc128 which is actually a rebranded MO6. I learned basic on it, but as a gaming machine it was rather disappointing. It sold very little here in Italy and being Olivetti a brand most devoted to office equipment (typewriter, photocopier, ...) i had to go that kind of shops to buy games. It is still there in my parents attics if you need it ...
okay but can we talk about the custom paint jobs at 18:56
I'm watching this because I saw it on your video of the year and realised I missed it the first time it was released, very interesting video and I love the TO9. It looked like it belonged on the set of a 70s sci fi. I kinda want one. Has part 2 been done yet? Or is it the show and tell?
Thanks Lucy. Part 2 is the show and tell chat with Bastien
@@RMCRetro thank you for quickly replying. I'm off to watch that now. Merry Christmas.
You're welcome, Merry Christmas to you and yours!
Thx a lot for this video. I'm french, and, i'm Thomson computer generation come from. At 7 old (I'm 41 now ... omg) the first contact with computer was Thomson TO7 or MO5 during the plan Informatique Pour Tous (Computer for everybody government program). That was a big part of my life. But, you now what, it was the worst computer during this period in regard of Amstrad or commodore. The tips to have a computer for a french family, at this epoq, advertisement said it's school computer with school program. But in fact, there had lot of program (Infogramme, Atari now) with no school payload ..juste game !! :)
The comparaison with apple is not possible. In France, Apple is very rare computer may be you can find apple 2, but not often. And macinstosh classic was reserved for Professional used. You can find very often Amstrad CPC 464, and Spectrum. In video games, Philips PONG, Atari VCS and Aminex video tv game.
In memory of this time, now I've the Thomson family and I'm playing with ! you can find sdcard converter to use your Thomson computer.
A trick to buy a Thomson, take care to alimentation ! Very often, after many year power down, the power on can be explose condensator of internal alimentation. The price (last year) was to 20€ to 50€ for TO9. Now, you can buy to 80 to 200€ for extreme condition.
I've all family, TO7, MO5, MO6, TO8 and TO9. The most beautiful is TO7. His 70's futurist design is so cool. The most playable is TO8. The good choice to buy it is TO8. And on french forum, there is big fan community.
Thx a lot
I fogot !! In school, there is the NANORESEAU (nano network). It was lot of MO5 connected to IBM PC. The goal is to learn how to program langage, not with Microsoft basic 1.0 (yes yes ... Inside Thomson, it's Microsoft), but it's the TORTUE langage (turtle). The goal is just draw line with command lines. Fun and more fun...
Can't find the second part of the video... :-(
You're welcome Neil. Always a pleasure. 8^)
TO7 is 8K RAM (I own one) and the TO7*70 are 48K, 64K with video RAM but only 48K usable. As teacher my parents has a price on it and I was not able to have a c64, the best computer at the time.
it was far behind in term of software and quality, sound horrible, scrolling absent, sprite monocolors.
Software where sold by a unique company for a long time before other company does good softwares (FIL). The CPU was always so slow, even compared to the one who replaced it the Amstrad CPC (I own a 6128) deeply more advanced in everything.
The Amstrad 6128 offer a floppy drive (good and fast), real keyboard, connectors for joysticks and printer (you have to buy adapters for TO7) 128k usable in two bank (ideal for copy) 27 colors with multicolor sprites.
The new TO computer is a chinees cheap atom based computer sold as noname and I guess they will never learn anything.
I see them dying, I was from Angers where many of their factories where.
good busted out by Amstrad in every ways, CPC was well rounded and complete from the start, even TO8D was incompelte as it lacked some even basic soundchip, any basic AY (same as CPC, speccy, MSX, Atari ST, Oric Atmos...) would have do well, sad as TO8 wasn't too bad on the paper.
RetroManCave - Love your videos! perfect amount of history and technical information. Who does the music in your videos?
Hey thanks! Most music comes from youtubes own creators library which anyone can use. I usually list all tracks and artists in the description
Another great educational video :D Is it just me or is some of the repeating old footage mirrored? There's a guy thinking by the computer and the program on the screen seems to be aligned to the right, is that correct?
the first time i used a computer was the MO6
i was like 7 or 8 years old at that time, and my parent didn't wanted to pay for a computer (too expensive and 0 use for them), i played with my big cousin and his amstrad (a lot of game unlike the school).
Back then we had MO5 networked with a Goupil PC t school... It was boring af. Fortunately my cpc464 at home was far more interesting :D Good video.
Slight inaccuracy, Thomson was the son of Scottish parents living in Manchester at the time of his birth. He was not English. It's also worth noting that "Thomson" is a Scottish name as is "Houston".
7:40 Sorry to nitpick, but while you are right the keyboard improved between the original TO7 and the revised TO7-70, it's because the TO7-70 was blessed *with* a chicklet keyboard instead of the previous membrane one, zx81 style. The "typewriter" keyboard was initially a 3rd party after market add-on, and then Thomson in late 85 retrofitted some models with a real keyboard.
The TO7-70 chicklet was a bit better than the MO5 or ZX Spectrum one because the keys had a "hardened" top surface, but it still felt like a dead fish to the touch.
The main difference between the TO7 and the TO7-70, aside from the upgraded RAM, was the BASIC in ROM. On the original TO7, the Basic was on a separate cartridge (sold separately, expensive), and the machine only had a very primitive monitor in ROM.
HTH, keep on the good work ;-)
AFAIK, the basic wasn't in ROM for the TO7/70. It is only starting from the TO9 and TO8 product lines that the basics were made resident. On the TO7/70 the basic was still in an external cartridge.
Samuel Devulder: my memory isn't what it used to be. You are right, basic was still on a cartridge. But it was bundled with the machine free of charge while it was a 500FF option on the original TO7.
What voltage do these french computers use?
Perhaps the logo programming language had an influence on France's politics: LePen Up Right Forward 90 LePen Down. Left
Just spotted the Amiga A500/A2000 mouse in there, at 15:38, albeit with different button colour, but definitely looks like the same casing design... Anyone know who designed it?
Yes indeed we were unlucky to have those crap computers in our French schools, even back then they felt like inferior products! But interesting video :)
BULL was also another French PC company more geared towards the pro market...
Is it me or did it seem that some of these machines had Amiga tank mice???
It certainly looked that way
Europeans were way more clever than Canadians, in the 80's we had 2/3 286's (probably not even) for the whole school and no specific programming intro or classes, the teacher was "showing" how to input text and using computers to show stuff. That was pretty much it for lessons...
It got better in the 90's for the quantity of material but it was about the MS environment and very very basic tasks.
TO9 should have been powered by a M68000, and some expansion bays in its housing... And a multitask OS. Too late already.
So Alstom is General Electric?
I still have PTSD from my first encounter with it at school ! A bad idea wanted and promoted by a socialist government … what a surprise 😲! No wonder why the french tech was late back then, when you have to start on that better not start at all. The keyboard of the black unit was the worst keyboard I've ever used in my life 🤣.
The document that is presented at 1:30 is written in Swedish. "FILIAL I EUROPA" is European office...
fortunately i never had an apple product and my money will never go that way...
The French Apple sounds like a quitter to me LOL also who would want an apple that smells like a dish drain
replace thomson by philips msx and you have a story about microcomputers in schools in the netherlands.
the true best Apple spawn company was BeInc; BeOS was a far more superior OS, multitasking, mulltimedia oriented that put the then macos (system 8 and 9) and of course windows to shame; BeOS ran on PowerPC (same micros Apple was using back then in 90s) and even on intel; but its CEO ego Gasse made the wrong business decision and the rest is history (as well as Be Inc)
Beepier Beeps 😂👍🏻
Serpentza sent me :)
@serpentZA Sent me. Yeah! great channel :)
Thank you and welcome
In, the second part, please have a small space for homebrew productions including games (www.6502man.com/RetroCoding/SecteNoire/SecteNoire.php ) or demos (www.pulsdemos.com, www.pouet.net/prodlist.php?platform%5B%5D=Thomson&page=1 ).
I spent a lot of time on these at the computer club. I was a little nerd and gave basic lessons to other students.
Thomson computers all sucked, seriously. A C64 or even a ZX Spectrum was miles ahead.
the country of Franoe
Жаль... на этом канале мы никогда не сможем посмотреть обзор "Искра-1256". (Даже нормальных русских обзоров - не посмотреть. Компьютер был секретным долгое время. Потом, в 1985-м его рассекретили и мелкими партиями стали поставлять в институты)
Awful computers in this time, nostalgia gets me when I see it now :)
the French government had a contract to impose Thomson computers (especially the TO7) in the school district. This computer has never entered homes, the French have never adopted.
Thanks for watching. This is in the video, as well as guests who had them in their home. I imagine it to be like the BBC Micro in the UK, mostly in schools but some did have them at home also.
Yes, the MO5 has lived a little, rarely the TO7. That said, it was a good idea but with the arrival of other computers, as you explain in your report, the C64 and Amstrad were the star at that time.
That said, congratulations for the quality of your reports, I subscribe with pleasure.
That's nice thank you. Yes the French really did love those Amstrads like nobody else. I blame the crocodiles
the French liked the Amstrad because of the advertising, but the C64 was much more powerful !
I like commodore !!!
Ah, Technicolor... Worst routers in the history of the world to support. lol.
1:37 (FÖRENTA STATERNA) is UNITED STATES
Technicolor? They make the worst Cable Modems in the history of mankind...
part 2?
Coming soon :D
Trouser tribulation
Sexy looking machines though...
French apple… yes, but NO 😂
It's France, the government is too much involved.
France is the last soviet land alive... with the price it cost. During Mitterand years, it was open bar..
@@Fred-jh5we I wrote that 5 years ago, haha, surprised anyone responded.
The thumbnail is a little misleading, as the 5 looks a LOT like an S.
so France wanted to set standard for computers in europe... well, just look at their cars , like renault. thank god they were not successful in setting standards for computers in europe.
look at airbus