Crisp, Articulate Snare Sound without Muffling | Season Four, Episode 50
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- Imagine that crispy snare sound without excessive sustain, the absence of clashing harmonics, just a beautifully articulate and resonant snare drum tone. And no, you don’t need any muffling or special heads or even a particular drum. In this episode we’ll dispel some of the tuning myths for achieving this sound and demonstrate how we approach it.
PATREON:
This season is made possible by our Patreon supporters. Join us on Patreon for access to exclusive content such as Cymbal Sounds, our long awaited cymbal series, and MUCH more: sladl.ink/Patreon
0:00 Intro
0:43 Crisp Snare Sound Demo
2:20 Gear Run Down
4:00 Variables to Control
4:44 Common Misleading Tips: #1
6:14 Common Misleading Tips: #2
8:00 Common Misleading Tips: #3
10:05 Understanding the Context
11:20 Summary & Recap
12:50 Wrap up
PRODUCTION PARTNERS:
GIK Acoustics (sonic treatment): sladl.ink/GIK
AKG Audio (microphones): sladl.ink/AKG
Evans Drumheads: sladl.ink/EvansDrumheads
ProMark Drumsticks: sladl.ink/ProMarkDrumsticks
Signal chain:
Mics - Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB & OctoPre - MacPro w/Pro Tools 12.8
Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
Overheads: (Matched Pair in Glyn Johns - Cardioid) AKG C314 sladl.ink/C314Pair
Snare, Toms: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Kick Drum: AKG D12vr sladl.ink/AKGD12VR
No EQ or compression in use with drum demos unless otherwise noted
Acoustic Treatment:
GIK 242 Acoustic Panels: sladl.ink/GIK242
GIK 4A Alpha Pro Series Diffusor/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIK4aAlphaPro
GIK Evolution PolyFusor Combination Sound Diffuser/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIKEvolutionPolyFusor
GIK Tri-Trap Corner Bass Trap: sladl.ink/GIKTriTrap
Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra w/Ludwig 60's Acrolite
Cymbals:
22” Jesse Simpson Clone of old Zildjian A, Zildjian 15” ‘Fat Hat’ Prototype hihats
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans G1 / Snare Side 300
Toms: Evans G1 Coated / G1 Clear
Kick Drum: Evans UV EMAD / EQ3 Coated White Reso
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
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*NOTE: Troll comments will be deleted. You're welcome to disagree with whatever you like but let's keep the conversation civilized and focused on drums.
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Six minutes in and I learned so many things I've been doing to make my great snares sound like crap for 40 odd years now. Doh!! Thank you for this great instructional video. 🙏🙏
These guys are fantastic. It's never too late to learn something new.
This channel consistently puts out the best educational content about tuning on the internet. I have learned so much valuable information from you guys. Thanks for always being objective, unbiased and thorough with what you do here.
Thanks for the kind words! We survive with the support of our followers- particularly our supporters on Patreon. Please help spread the word! 🙏🏻
This was extremely helpful. I've got a snare that I've been struggling to find the 'sweet spot' of, and this video was a huge help. Thanks so much.
Love the fact that you started with a Ludwig Acrolite, that's been my go too snare forever. Thnx great job 👍👍
We constantly find ourselves going back to the Supraphonic and Acrolite. Easily some of the best drums available for the price and then some. Cheers!
I was at the drumshop and they had acrolites and supras. Chose the supra for it's repitation. Had a teacher with an acrolite who refused to sell it to me! Turns out I just wanted his SD!🤣
I like that snare to one day maybe I'll get one
Yep hearing that isolated batter and reso IS EVERYTHING to someone that is totally lost with snare tuning like me 😂
Hopefully this helped shed some light! Also, just so you’re not hung up on those specific tunings- this is all about ratios. You can achieve a similar sonic behavior by lowering or raising the tension of each opt the variables. Just be aware that the relationship between them isn’t linear so you’ll have to…use your ears! 😲😉
@@SoundsLikeADrum Gotcha, I really appreciate the heads up on the ratios being more important to focus on than the specific pitches of each of those. That really helps, especially when my snare/heads might not be working at all at the pitch you're using in your videos😂. Thanks again!
6:45 or so was my go to snare sound for most of the mid-nineties. :)
Really digging that snare sound !
Honestly I love your channel, guys. So many helpful topics that I don't see anywhere else!
Awesome video! I really appreciate the approach and feel of all of your videos. They're so easy to watch and refer back to. Thank you!
Wonderful and thanks for your time!
Incredibly well explained, thank you!
Evans heads are so dominantly ringy. Would love to hear you use Remo Ambassadors in one video. I think your knowledge and efforts would be showcased beautifully with the thump and snap Remo heads offer.
@@NintenDub I guess... Such a shame
Great vid. Been subbed to your channel for a while. I'm not a "drummer", but, can play ham-handly well enough to execute certain genres at an average clip. I really enjoy recording and have a decent space in my home to do so, and the thing I obsess on most is drum sounds. Especially kick and snare. These vids have helped me get better at the small details with regard to tuning. As you mentioned -- my goal is to get to the point where I can get the sound I want (or very close) with no muffling. Thanks.
That was a great video. Thank you for that lesson
Rad...great episode! Thanks, guys
This video did the most to help me understand what was happening to everyone's drums and why I was starting to hate drumming. Thank you so much. You killed it with this video.
Leveling the snare side head. I'm very surprised you didn't mention that. It made the biggest difference for me. And you're definitely right about not cranking. The snare side head, when leveled, shouldn't be higher than 385Hz at most on the Tunebot. My batter never goes above 320Hz. And the fundamental pitch I like is just below a G#. On any snare I've ever tuned, those are the tightest settings. But the snare side head leveling is the secret sauce.
Keeping in mind that a taught snare side head is still important, I usually go for around 375Hz. (Note. Lug pitches vary because of leveling) Then when I want to raise or lower the fundamental pitch of the drum, I only raise or lower the batter head. This, in turn, always requires me to readjust the snare wires using just the throw off knob. And that is usually a loose finger tight feel.
You can get many sounds without having to ever mess with the snare side head. Generally.
Leveling = articulate snare wire sound when both heads and the wires are in breathable tensions.
Another excellent video. Thank you. Y'alls teaching is the only thing more articulate than your snare wires!
They have a complete guide on snare drum tuning where they thoroughly explain snare side leveling
I love that type of sound on the snare drum
Very helpful, I have a 1966 Acro, with G1 batter and 300 snare side. So I'm going to try these tips on that drum. Thanks
I like my kits tones wide open for live jams or practicing solos.For recording,little bit of gaff tape never hurts.By the way just bought an 8x14 maple snare,holy cow I'm loving that low end.🗽♥️📼
Oh! A new episode in a so short period of time! Congratulations! And still another very important topic.
New episodes every Tuesday with the occasional bonus video on Fridays courtesy of sponsors! 🎉
Good one, am having problems of the sort you bring up. Thanks for the insight
Awesome tech advice
This is superb advice. You the Gov'nor 😎😊♥️
The bass drum is fantastic!
I like your drumming and your snare drum sound.
Another wonderful episode. And it’s so great you use basic heads and wires. And show how a nice drum can sound great and less great just by tuning adjustments. I recently got stuck with my Pork Pie brass drum, it sounded dead. I blamed the heads and wires so changed to fancy heads, fancy wires. Then later, tapped the original single ply heads and wires, they were fine ie not dead or such. So tried again, real slowly, to find resonance in the drum with those heads. Now they are back on, and the drum sounds great. It’s too easy to blame the gear when it’s actually you. :-)
Tama: The Strongest Name in Drums
Cody: The Nicest Man in Drums
Haha, he’ll appreciate that and I can vouch for him being a stand-up human being outside of our UA-cam videos as well. -Ben
Thanks for reiterating the point that should be driven home here. Appropriate snare drum tuning can absolutely be accomplished without muffling. With smaller venue, more acoustic live presentations becoming the norm these days, often drums might not even be miked. In that situation, muffled drums will only be heard a couple of feet in front of the kit without some openness and overtones. The Acrolite, which I use often is usually dry enough with reasonable tuning that you just don't need muffling, including the internal muffle. I do like to play with sensitivity and rebound, so I adjust the batter head and then everything else around that. Having the snare wires just "kissing" the snare head fixes most issues.
Great video. I have a lovely Ludwig Acrolite too. Yay!
I recently got a Gretsch Brooklyn Standard that came stock with Ambassadors and sounded great but I wanted to hear what Mike Johnston was so I put an Aquarian Texture Coated on and an Aquarian High Performance snare side and holy smokes this thing has some crack! Almost too much lol I like it
Up until about last October my snare setup was a coated Pinstripe CRANKED muffled with an O-ring which was held in place by two moon gels. And, for what it's worth, I gigged for 15 years with that snare and never had any complaints. It makes me cringe now, though because it's not the sound I wanted. I settled for it because I didn't know how to get the sound I wanted. So, choking and muffling gave me a controlled sound at least. I am now running a coated Ambassador over Evans 300 wide open and it sounds freaking amazing. It's still not my sound, but I like it MUCH more than the sound I had before. I have a couple more batter heads on the way now and I think one of those (Evans UV2 and Remo Emperor X) is going to give me exactly what I am looking for. The majority of the reason for my ability to tune and make adjustments based on what I am hearing and what I want to hear is directly attributed to watching this channel. Thank you guys so much. Stellar content as always!
A side note to those still struggling with getting their snare sound... Pay attention to the setting of the snare tension when you are installing your snares. Turns out that for years I had been bottoming out the tension on my throw such that I had very little headroom left for adjusting the tension of the snares. For whatever reason, it never occurred to me that I could fix that problem very easily. I just tried compensating for that through "tuning" and muffling. I'm sure there is probably a video on this channel addressing that specifically. I just have not come across it.
Thank you!!
You’re quite welcome!
A lovely vintage Acro sure doesn’t hurt, right? If it’s a great drum it’s gotta sound great with no muffling. The drum sounds BEAUTIFUL, really nice, full tone where you can hear the instrument doing it’s thing in a very controlled way… You guys have the best tuned and recorded drums on the web, always a treat to hear!
Thanks for the kind words! We do love this drum but it’s really not about the drum. We can do this with any of the drums that the two of us owns because it’s all about listening to and working with the ratios of tension between each of the variables discussed. It’s important that this be clarified for anyone reading this, as no one should feel like they need to buy a certain drum in order to dial in a crisp, articulate sound. Cheers and thanks for watching! -Ben
Can we get a video about reggae sound snare? Amazing job as always
Modern tuning and muffling is so common due to people trying to get a polish radio mixed snare sounds which is usually heavily compressed or even replaced altogether from an acoustic drum in their bedroom or on a stage. As soon as you put even a mic on a drum the sound changes drastically. I tune more to the room or the vibe of the music being played. I think some folks overthink the tuning of drums. Good video though. Cranking the snare side tends to work good for less buzz in bigger rooms I've noticed. And more snare response. Also every drum is so different. Snare beds , size. Material , edges etc.
That sound was so "just right" and familiar to me. I took my snare from the bag, checked it and it was tuned exactly the same! I've tuned it recently by ear to sound "right" as it was a bit too loose and lost the crispiness. I just wonder if it is kind of a sweet spot that we all can feel after a certain amount of time or we are just listening to the same artists with their snares tuned about the same?
Oh thank you. I thought I was going nutz or maybe losing my hearing. my snare side was table top.
Thank you. Very useful and explained well! Could you expand on the wire tension aspect a little?
I have a Tomahawk stainless steel 10 lug snare with Ambassador batter, Evans snare side 300 and Puresound pro custom 20 strand wires I'm trying to work out.
After that I have a 16x10 snom and 12x5 Tama Club Jam snare I wanna apply this to.
Glad you enjoyed it! When it comes to wires, we generally recommend setting their tension last because what works for them is entirely dependent on the snare reso head. Start loose and slowly increase tension will experimenting with playing the drum at different dynamics. We move through this pretty quickly by focusing on the softest playing, as this is where a drum will first exhibit symptoms of being choked if the wires are too tight. Also, for your snom- do keep in mind that lower sounds (assuming that’s the general range at which your tuning the drum) typically require a longer note length so a crisp, articulate sound is a bit counterproductive. Happy experimenting! -Ben
@6:19 it's usually my normal sound for my snares, also close to what James Brown drummers had in tha late 60's and 70's which was almost un-herd of but u see how it worked out for James Brown and his drummers which has been tha most sampled sound in music history even with tha snare sound here lol
Doesn’t get any better than these guys on this channel talking anything drums!!!!!
Aw, thanks so much!
They didn't mention the tuning but the resonant head is a perfect 5th higher than the batter head in their model snare drum.
Soooooo Goood!
Just had a evans muffle gel and their you go
5:40 so close to c.watts groove on bridges to Babylon. Btw were you changing wires for acoustic reasons only?
Are you using a signature pro mark sticks?
Great, as usual. I only use rimshots and It would be gold to hear some rimshot in every test 🙃
We always include rimshots. The last hit of the single stroke dynamics and five individual hits is always a rimshot for snare demos.
@@SoundsLikeADrum Yes, I meant in the grooves.
@@samunerdrum5978 We're sure to include lots of rimshots in those as well 🙂
@@SoundsLikeADrum great. Thanks for the awesome work.
@@samunerdrum5978 You're quite welcome!
That first groove you played sounded a lot like Two Princes.
A great vid you can do is getting the bass drum to feel good with a double pedal ..That can be so hard to get it to sound and feel right with 2 beaters hitting the same head .. I have so many issues and i noticed different heads change the feel tremendously.. Maybe a future vid Ty
This is really a personal preference and practice sort of scenario. As long as your pedals are balanced and the beaters are aligned, it really comes down to the desired sound and working on your technique to adapt to the feel of the head. This goes for single pedal as well.
@@SoundsLikeADrum Ty i will try it
the best upgrade you can do with a double pedal is a high quality driveshaft, like a Trick Universal shaft, Pearl Z Link or ACD Ultimate driveshaft. Makes a world of difference.
Hi Guys thanks for the great information on this channel. I have a question about the AKG mini mics you are using, I have one that I’ve been dying to try but I don’t think I have the correct cables. I have a QSC touchmix 16 with phantom, what do I need to power these things? Thanks so much
You're quite welcome! These are the AKG C518M clip-on condensers. They use a mini-XLR to standard XLR cable and are phantom powered. We run them directly into our Focusrite Clarett 8Pre.
@@SoundsLikeADrum
Thanks so much for the reply. So all I need is a mini XLR-standard XLR cable? Sounds too easy, someone wanted to sell me all these extras.
@@apdito AKG includes an MPA V L adapter as the cable for these mics and that's all we've ever used with them: www.akg.com/Microphones/Microphone%20Accessories/MPAVL2.html?dwvar_MPAVL2_color=Black-GLOBAL-Current
great video! Really like that you think the sound depending of the context: "There´s no good sounds and bad sounds" I totally agree!
👍
It would be really cool if you guys could play along to a track to show how short the snare sound truly gets within a musical context.
How would these notes for the batter and reso translate to a 6.5x14 maple snare?
Idk if I’d say the resonance was stifled with the heavily tightened batter head, it just shifted the ring to a higher frequency and shortened its duration, making it more noticeable and annoying
Unless that’s what you meant lol
Yep, that’s what a choked sound is, symptomatic of stifled resonance.
What kind of mics are you using on the kit?
Full listing on the description.
One of the biggest things that helps me get an articulate sound is simply playing in the center of the head (and not hitting a rimshot when I don’t mean to)
I'd love to know what the tune bot settings are to replicate this on my acrolite!
You don’t need tune bot settings- just listen to the pitches of the heads as demonstrated in the first example.
@@SoundsLikeADrum Yeah I tried that already. It didn't work. I don't think I can hear pitch very well.
That’s definitely something to work on and practice. Ear training is an important part of all of this. I’ll check the pitches later and update this comment with them for your reference but keep in mind that you’ll learn far more by experimenting rather than being fed the answers.
@@SoundsLikeADrum Thank you! It's called 40 years of playing metal. Lol. My hearing isn't what it use to be.
Where do you get a bacon head and how much.
Ah, but it’s the bacon snare wires that are truly the key to the crispiest of tones…
How about an episode about using super old, warn out heads? Like, removing and wiping everything down, then going for a drastically different tuning?
This
Like John Bonham would do! He loved using old heads on his drums
@@TylerOath There's something about broken-in that cannot be replicated.
Tensioning the resohead clearly above the batter head nearly always leads to a tone in the decay that I do not like at all. 12 snare strings are also quite few to muffle the reso head against that singing. Using a thinner resohead can attenuate the effect. The most „oumpf“ you‘ll get when both heads have the same tuning, but this is not necessarily „crisp“. Tuning the batter head higher than the reso gives more snare noise without that annoying singing. Steve Maxwell recommends this anyway to get more sound projection of the drum in an acoustic situation. The snare response can then additionally be adjusted by varying the tension of the 4 rods next to the snarebed combined with more or less snare tension. The discussion is as old as modern snare drums are used and it is all about taste. I know.