Why a Bakers Dozen is 13 Instead of 12
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2015
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In this video:
There are three main theories for why a baker’s dozen is 13 instead of 12, but most think it has its origins in the fact that many societies throughout history have had extremely strict laws concerning baker’s wares, due to the fact that it is fairly easy for bakers to cheat patrons and sell them less than what they think they are getting.
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Now that you know the truth about the baker's dozen check out this video and find out the fascinating story about the time a company baked a giant cake to win a court case:
ua-cam.com/video/P4dRglshOwI/v-deo.html
When my mother was young, and still when I was young, baked goods were not bought at a grocery store, but at the baker's. (Same with meat - all meat was from the butcher shop.) Anyway, kids were sent to the baker's shop to pick up the rolls, cookies, cakes, etc., whatever was baked that day, and the theory was that the baker gave 13 to make sure 12 made it home.
I'd class that one under wives tale more than anything
That sounds plausible.
I always thought that it was simply because the extra one is to test if the batch came out right. Sell 12 then test (and eat) 1
That's sounds reasonable. But, then why would the bakers keep giving customers 13 if they would've eaten the 13th one already? Customers would still get 12, a dozen, if they did. :)
Lance Lindle Lee I imagine that there would be either massive food waste, or extremely full bakers.
Lakahiya Newberry No one sells by bakers dozen here. I thought that it was only used within themselves.
Thebigitchy hey, I never really gave it much though
+Lance Lindle Lee Oh ok. I still agree with you
+Lakahiya Newberry They would vomit it back.
The guy at the donut shop always told me it was 13 so you could have one to enjoy now while still bringing home a dozen, but this explanation makes sense too.
12 of today's, 1 of yesterday's.
1 of today's, 12 of yesterday's.
OriginalPiMan
Little drops of water, little grains of sand; make the milkmaid wealthy and the baker grand.
Ross Parlette ohhh snap
Ross Parlette interesting- is that an old English rhyme?
Apparently so. Full disclosure: I wasn't there. (grin)
I read about this and the comment was that this was an early comment on food adulteration.
For soups and sauces with a savour.
All his dishes had a unique flavour.
Ask why and you shall see,
That the cook had an ulcer upon his knee!
-Chaucer
(The ulcer was a pus-filled non-healing wound, whose contents made it into all of the cook's creamy concoctions.)
I always thought they always just made the 13th as a sample one so that it wouldn't break the 12 set
Wow, laws to protect people. What a concept.
nosuchthing8 yeah but your hand getting chopped off is a little harsh
yeah, hammurabi was pretty edgy.
Ionlymadethistoleavecoments that's the point it's not worth loosing a hand over and loosing your lively hood and getting shunned by society. Not like today where you can murder people and get a stay in a hotel for a while
robuk1981 I'm fine with a severe punishment, but I can easily see a baker making a mistake and getting his hand chopped off
nosuchthing8 If the people have to have laws to protect them from the laws, however, you have fucked up.
I always thought a bakers dozen had one extra, so that the baker could have to to taste/ check to make sure its cooked or whatever they needed to do with the extra loaf.
Sebastian Finally, someone else who gets it!
Sebastian That could be true too :)
It might be both since a bakers tray can actually fit a maximum of 14 :D (5 on the top, 4 on the middle and 5 on the bottom)
The 14th one could be for tasting and the 13th one can be the insurance for them to not be breaking the law :D
It's just 13 being the Baker's dozen since it's what they sell to customers :D The secret Baker's dozen is actually 14 :D
That's just my theory though:/
I always thought this too
I thought it was in case one was too burnt.
All these great pictures of bread. I wish to commit carbicide.
CarlosIsDown Just do it! Make your dream come true.
TheEbolaVirus think about the heavenly pussy
ReZisT Lust drowning is pussy loaf!
madscientistshusta what
I used to work in a bakery, and always have thought a baker's dozen is 14. Somebody laid it out to me that on a round baking pan, baking rolls for instance, you'd have 7 on the outer ring, 6 on the inner ring, and 1 in the center of the pan, for a total of 14.
I was told that when children were sent to buy baked goods, they'd eat one on the way home, but their parents would get mad at the Baker for it, so children who asked for a bakers dozen had one to eat on the way home.
aw sweet!
Cute story, but highly unlikely. If the loaf was only for the children, they would have had to pay extra for it, and that money would have had to come from the parents, meaning the parents would have known what was going on. More likely the kids would get a spanking at home and learn the hard way that their parents can count.
I know it's nonsense now, but I had to share my story
+TheReaverOfDarkenss
I see no reason why, when there were more children buying things for their families, a kind hearted baker would not throw in an extra for the child. It wouldn't be industry wide, but it wouldn't be so outlandish to think it might have been common. After all, when sent out to buy loaves/cookies/whatever, who would that child give his business to: the baker who gives them a free extra, or the baker who doesn't?
Also, plenty of small business owners I know, and have worked for keep a stash of suckers/candy/stickers for small children who come into the store, just because the want to.
Waldo
It'll depend a lot on resource availability. If people can easily afford their bread, a baker will have a strong incentive to advertise their own bread above the bread sold by competing bakers. But if food is scarce or the people are poor, there won't be a lot of competition and bakers won't be willing to give away extra bread. So it could depend a lot on region and era.
Like many others here, I always presumed it was because the baker would have one for himself - for pleasure or taste-testing. I guess a followup question is: why are baked goods so frequently sold by the dozen? Is it the 3x4 grid?
the origin of 12, 24, 36, 48, 60 dates back to ancient times. It is because base 12 numbers are much easier to do hand-mathematics with because it has so many divisors. Think about it. 10 items only divides evenly into 2 and 5. If you are sharing something, like bread, you want it to be divisible evenly many ways and 12 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 6, twice as many as 10.
was the ear cut off before being nailed to the door or not? :-P
Hil0. I asked myself the same question! Time to research.
I reckon it'd make a better example to have the ear nailed to the door with the rest of the importunate baker squirming in discomfort still attached to it, he'd definitely learn an important lesson that way.
Carbon Knights Gaming The way I pictured it is you could, or preferrably some help hold the victim face you (back against the door) and use a long finishing style nail. You'll be able to catch some part and drive through to the wall.
I am laughing way too hard at this comment.
Nope. Part of the punishment was that in order to detach themselves from the door, the criminal would have to rip their ear.
I would get confused between 12 and 13 if I had to be up that early as well...
"Gotta make the doughnuts...."
hand cut off? The bakers in my city were straight up executed if they sold bread that was too short. The cathedral in the centre of our city has two metal rods on the side that were the standard for length. If I recall correctly, they would put the offending bakers in a cage and drown them in the Danube river. They were pretty strict about their bread back then...
Are you mentioning the city of Vienna?
That is the most fascinating knowledge I've ever heard! Thanks for this info chief!
Simon, I now have a favorite Today I Found Out video. Thanks for this!
Why do you sound like you're talking through several layers of fabric?
Because he is, popping filters are kinda crappy on that sense
Lmbo!
The real reason for a baker's dozen being 13. 12 for the costumer, one for the baker. They are selling food, you don't want to sell people bad food or else they don't come back. Baker's started selling all 13 when advances in technology made baking things properly, much easier. Seriously, try cooking anything with a wood stove or oven, without a clock, without exact measurements of ingredients, or any idea of hot your oven/stove is.
For medieval baker selling bread was only a side job. Their main
activity was renting space in their oven to the families of the town.
They would put in their own loaf last to block the access to the inside
of the oven so people could see that they could not had stolen any
dough from other loafs.
I always thought that just getting more water to the recipe either directly or by first steaming it would be an easy way to add more weight and I imagine it would be difficult to dispute this.
Firstly, I love your vids! I was always told a bakers dozen was 1 extra for the baker's lunch though! been told this in many kitchens! bow to your greater knowledge!
I always thought that it was 13 causs the baker ate one to see its a good batch
Curiosity Of Mankind same here
Curiosity Of Mankind wouldn't it be 11 then? because a dozen is 12
Make 13, eat 1 then you have 12. That's the idea at least.
How would the baker removing a loaf to eat make one MORE loaf??
That would only work if he make 12 batches and and sold 11 he would have to make 13 and sell 11 if hes also eating 1 (assuming eatch batch is exactly 12)
Good work
A lot of mom and pop shops where I live in Louisiana still practice lagniappe. Where they always give you a little bit more ❤❤
I always thought it was because to make beautiful pastries and cakes, it's always a good idea to make a few extras, just in case some turn out flawed. There have been many times I've made a cake and baked a third layer, because the one of them would fall in the oven or break when placing. This has happened with pastries too. Sometimes the pastries will fall in the oven, deflate when cooling, or burn around the edges.
I watch your ads because I like your content. Enjoy the coffee for today!
i thought it was because in royal courts there was a poison taster and he got the 13th and that way the noble never had to see 11 rather then a whole 12
I heard that one too. The 13th roll or loaf was for tasting not just in Royal courts but everywhere.
Ensec it's always amusing how people view the activities of royalty through the lens of ordinary life. The monarch or lord would never have seen the whole dozen anyway, they had servants to make their bread appear for them when and where they wanted it, and that was the extent of their involvement with it.
A baker's dozen is 13 because if it was 12 it'd just be a normal dozen ;)
you're a wanchor
+DoNeverHesitate kappaaaaa
+tohopes I never realized until now that this should indeed be the correct spelling instead of wanker
But your math system is a base of ten... So in your theory, where did the dozen even come from then?
~boB
I always thought it was so the baker could eat one lol
I learn more here than any other school/channel.
Now I know why the Egyptian baker mentioned in the Bible in the Book of Genesis ended up in prison and being hanged.
Prolly the best channel ever.
In my country, thirteen per dozen applied mainly for eggs.
After a short search, I discovered it was mainly used for fresh products. But it seems in some region even the clog maker would sell 13 pairs for a dozen.
And the reason I see most often given is: "In case there is rotten/defect one".
Before this video I had never heard it was used for bread...
ydela1961 oh cool
Interesting to hear the difference in Simon's presentation between 2015 and today. He sounded so low key here, but much more energetic now.
Why only 230k subscribers? I am new here and this is a fantastic channel? Or... Is it relatively new and people are just finding it as I am?
Jeffery Williams try looking at their other videos and you'll find that a lot of them are very long and pointless. Some even last for 12 minutes but didn't have to. It's just endless talking and talking and talking and talking...
To be fair, that's just using UA-cam's system to net the highest number of views and money from each video as possible; we wouldn't have to sit through such long videos if UA-cam didn't have such a screwy algorithm that told them to make it that long or else they ain't getting paid.
Because they haven't renamed the channel to things you always forget to google
TL; DR: 3 possibilities (with the first most likely being the right one)
1) In England a baker could have his hand cut off if he sold a lower amount so they would give an extra piece to ensure it was always at or above the the weight that was purchased.
2) Selling 13 instead of 12 to a vendor gave the vendor a whole sale discount so they could make a profit on the 13th piece.
3) In order to avoid corners in baking pans (which would get too hot and ruin the baking) they arranged the dough in rows of 4x5x4 (which equals 13) to cook as much as possible without burning anything.
Why didn't they charge a different price for every loaf of bread, depending on the weight of the loaf?
I believe they did in most places throughout history, but there are ways to cheat that method too. for example, chalk was used by skeezy merchants to make flour weigh more per volume (and the wight of flour per a specified volume was used to determine it's quality.) also, amendments like milk and eggs alter the wight of the bread being sold. ye old England saw it fit to regulate the industry, and the way described in the vid is just the way they did it. not necessarily the best way, but I assume a good solution for the time period
Because people dont watch videos all the way to the end.
Beyond what's mentioned at the end of the video it's also worth pointing out that a fine-tuned scale was not something found in the house of the common man for most of history.
Goldenkitten1 oh i remember the day i got my first tripple beam
my coworkers have the theory that it could be to have an extra bun or loaf to check to make sure the others are done. the only problem with that is that it doesn't apply well to experienced bakers
The real reason is that bread shops used to sell bread at cost price for the bread maker. The bread shops started out as 'factory shops' where the produce of the factory was sold locally. The 13th loaf in the bakers dozen was given by the bread maker so the bread shop could make a profit from the sale of the 12. At least thats how my teacher explained it in 1986.
one story which I heard was that bread was a cornerstone of many people's diet. So, if there were more than one baker in the area, they would put a thirteenth in as a form of gratitude for the customer giving them their business.
The story I was told was that you were given an extra loaf/donut/etc. because they believed the devil would make you drop one, hence why I have also heard it referred to as a "devil's dozen"
Ive always heard a bakers dozen was a sort of quality control. The items were serverved to the public at 12 and the 13th was for the bake staff to sample for either quality control or possibly for the customer to sample... Just a thought
~boB
mmmm ground sand
DrJD123 keeps your teeth healthy as well. Like flossing… 😉
That kind of proves that laws don't necessarily stop people from doing bad things.
More common than you'd think... Look for "Silicon Dioxide" in the ingredient lists of things like cake mix, powdered beverage mix, and many other products sold as (1) a powder (2) that contains sugar or other hygroscopic ingredients. It's an "anti-caking agent" - it keeps powdered ingredients from getting clumpy from absorbed humidity. It's also _finely ground sand._
...well, technically, finely ground _quartz._ But most sand is mostly quartz...
Taco bell likes serving sand.
I always thought it had something to due with providing a batch sampler. Was just my thought.
You missed the story I was given when I was growing up. Bakers would make a 13th loaf as one for the customer to eat as a trial to see if the bread was good. Many American bakeries still practice this> I know this from personal experience. I'm not saying it is the actual origin of the Baker's Dozen, but it is something many bakers have been doing for quite a while!
L. Cleveland Major 12 is just considered an arbitrarily "complete" number
ok so in a baker and I was told during my apprenticeship it was marketing. so someone buys a dozen you give them one extra as a gift. over time they get used to this and go somewhere else one day and order a dozen and only get 12 what's that where's the gift? you're going to go back to the first bakery. because they perceive as they are getting more. now days you can see the same sort of thing from loyalty programs in nearly every shop
They are just nice, they still often chuck in something extra if you are a regular customer. It's the original loyalty club!
I was told by my Mom, was young, that it was a "nice gift" from the bakers. Neat idea any.
I was told it was 13 so the baker could eat one on his way home.
Do you have one why gasoline is sold 9/10th of a gallon?
Good video
5:02 Oh. That's why my bread has sand in it!
Seems the bakers misunderstood what "sandwich" was supposed to mean.
CheeseTaterson Haha!
That's one of the many reasons we should start officially calling it a sammich. There's no confusion in that.
XZDrake naw that's corn or wheat hearts that make up the little grains in the bottom of artesian bread
This channel has made me the most interesting person to talk to at parties lmao
0:17 Only in this case they're selling the patrons MORE than they think they're getting.
i would like to point out that back in 1800 bakers would use alot of other stuff then sand to make the wheat stretch. stuff like chalk and plaster of paris
Modern 'baker's dozen' is so the baker can taste-test the 13th. Ye Olde baker's dozen may be an origin theory for the unluckiness of the number 13... Considering that that number is so easily connected with some VERY bad luck situations.
I always thought it was an early example of advertisement that got out of control and became the norm.... "Look I give 13 for the price of 12!" My theory it ended up so popular that all bakers just started doing it in order to compete with their fellow bakers. Though giving an extra so your hands don't get chopped off sounds good too...
2:35 This legend dates back to the 12th century, I'll have you know!
I dont think a regulations equates to a culture of selling 13 over 12, when a the seller could be haggled or simply sell 12 for less to compensate or undercut competitors. Also doesn't take onto account how you guage temperature and cook time in a brick oven during a time when there was no thermometers or thermostats control. Thus the baker would have extras from adjusting and feeding the oven with test breads, throw it into a batch to sweeten the deal.
I thought the prevailing idea was that you simply can't make baked goods out of dough in perfectly even quantities, so you would make a bit more dough than you thought you needed, and then just bake the extra if there was any.
i was always told the 13th item was for the baker or the purchaser of the dozen items to snack on
I always thought the 13th was from yesterday's batch that hadn't sold.
Another way bakers would cheat customers was to replace some of the flour with pulverized chalk.
And in London, distilleries would sometimes dilute gin with some phosphoric acid.
I sell sweet corn at a 14 ear doz ,It is a great way to be different and make the customer feel like they got a deal . Also if the customer picks out a bad ear in his/ her doz they most likely over look the mistake because of the good deal
Why not all of the above?
The wheat and yeast and all the ingredients' parents are brother and sister because they're in bread.
I always thought it was incase one got burnt while baking
using a more hydrated loaf will give it more weight depending on how much is cooked.
So the Baker can have one before he sends the rest off!
that doesn't even make sense.. when I go to the baker I don't buy 12 breads.. I buy 1, so in that case the baker would have 1, I would have 1 and then there would be 11 left. And if he only baked 12, he could still have 1 and I buy 1 and then he has 10 left
Back then people often bought in batches. It was important to know that the stuff you're buying is of good quality. Even if you trust the baker, you still have to worry that a mistake may have spoiled the batch. If the baker splits one of the batch members with you at the store, you can first see that the baker finds it delicious and secondly you can try it for yourself. Since it comes from the batch you're looking to purchase, you can expect the rest in that batch to be about the same.
These days advanced technology, methods, and regulations have made it so that different batches tend to come out very similar to each other. This was not so often the case back when it was all done by hand and they didn't know the things we know today.
TheReaverOfDarkness If people bought in batches, the baker wouldn't have made only 1 batch to satisfy 1 customer on that day. So if he baked 10 batches of 13 items that day, threw them all in a big basket in the sales room and then gave you a dozen plus 1, you wouldn't know from which batch the 12 are and from which batch the 1 sample is.
*****
No, they often kept batches separate from each other for this very reason. It was quite common for a mistake or unknown (to them) variable to spoil the quality of the batch. It was important for a baker to discover this before selling the product because it could ruin their reputation if it produced an angry customer. With all batches maintained separately, a baker could essentially check the whole batch by testing one member of the batch.
Some say that the 13th one is for the baker to test if the batch is good instead of what the theory suggests :/ It makes sense but here's my theory :D
I think it might be both reasons since a bakers tray can actually fit a maximum of 14 :D (5 on the top, 4 on the middle and 5 on the bottom)
The 14th one could be for tasting and the 13th one can be the insurance for them to not be breaking the law :D
It's just 13 being the Baker's dozen since it's what they sell to customers :D The secret Baker's dozen is actually 14 :D
That's just my theory though:/
Kuya Dan okayy
bakers in small scale places like little towns that dont have huge demand for product might be making and selling a batch at a time. No reason to sell part of a batch if you aren't going to be able to sell the reset. And if youre baking in groups of 13, you'll need to bake 12 batches before you have enough for 1 extra batch to sell. Seems like both could be true, one being an early social tendency and the other being a later legal/economic response
I was told it was to get a sample of food
There is probably some truth in all three theories -- there's rarely only one correct answer as to why things are the way they are.
One of the better (you might think) punishments was being forced to eat the entire loaf if it was found to contain cheating ingredients like sand or sawdust. Not horrible, but then again, those weren't the only ways they tried to cheat people. Trust me, sometimes a hand or ear could be better than a crafty baker's imagination. Sometimes the bread would be burned under their feet or noses, though that's a bit more uncommon.
I always assumed it was a "sample". The baker would give you one to sample their product and then ordering a dozen got you 12. So it just because common practice to add the 13th to each order.
Lmao... if I ever caught a baker putting ground sand in a bread I'd nail their ears on their door myself.
how does the Baxter thing work? don't surnames usually follow the patrilineal lines? so how would you end up with a girl's last name?
We learnt in chef school that the 13th piece was for the person buying the goods to snack on on their way home as a kind of "thank you". Then they will get home with the full dozen. 😋
lol @ baker innuendo
I always thought the baker baked one extra for themselves or to test the batch.
I always though they kept the extra loaf for themselves.
And here I thought they were done in such a way as "12 for you, 1 for me" when making them.
the 13th was because of the idea that one would burn, so you could still sell a dozen form one batch. that's what I was told.
Josh Mcdowell that is pretty much what I thought it was.
Yep, thought it was insurance or testing a batch.
My last name is actually French for Baker but I'm not one but I do have other distant relatives who's last name is baker.
Funny thing though, I had an uncle who worked at a bakery but his last name wasn't Baker. Lol
and here i was thinking they were just throwing in an extra one to be nice.. Like a freebee just to say thanks. Here sample one for your self since your probably buying a dozen to feed a group, make sure you keep something for yourself, etc, etc.. But of course it has to do with getting your hand chopped off.. Lol.
...the Worshipful Company of Bakers (London) guild was actually started in the 12th century, when it fact it was really the 13th century...
I think in case one is burned ect so for insurance?
I don't know the real reason but I was told that bakers were generous back then and would give you 13.
if someone sells me a loaf of bread with sand in it, i'll personally cut off his hand
the above?
I thought for sure it was because the baker wanted to try an item from the batch and since the baker didnt want to ruin the batch out (by making it an odd number) he just made one extra. Great video though!
I always just thought that a baker's dozen was merely a byproduct of accidentally having a little too much dough or batter so the excess went into a 13th item and that it was purely something that happened by accident. the truth is more interesting though.
I always thought it was so that the baker could eat one.
I always thought a bakers dozen was because if you need 12 of something 1 will always get messed up so make an extra! 😂
I knew a cart baker who gave 15 in his bakers dozen and when people got mad and say a bakers dozen is 13 he would give them a few more doughnuts.
I love how almost the entire video is just pictures of delicious looking bread
My grandmother was one of 13 kids born in a family called Baker.
Everyone knew them as the Baker's dozen.
A practice that greedy, over-priced Dunkin' Donuts should honor.