Those flip over headlights are right out of the Opel Gt parts bin. I had one back in the day. Everytime I pulled the lever to flip them over I felt like James Bond and imagined they were machine guns or rocket launchers.
Pontiac was a brand at GM that got kicked down every time they had a winner. GM used to outright steal product development from Pontiac just to give the advances to other divisions prior to allowing Pontiac to utilize their own improvements in subsequent model years after they had been marketed and proven by the other divisions.
@@rapid13 That's true but barring Pontiac from using its own researched technology and giving the resource to a much better funded division was commonplace within GM. Making Pontiac seem a lesser vehicle in the GM lineup.
Sure was a slap down, the 1964 Pontiac Banshee never came about due to GM thinking it would move ppl away from buying the Corvette. GM then gave the design to Chevrolet to use as their 3rd gen Corvette. The same happened with the Firebird, every Firebird from 1967 is based off of the Camaro. That was the only way GM would allow Pontiac to put out a pony car.
@@dlm9477 I’m a huge Pontiac fan but I have to set the record straight about this one. When Ford introduced the Mustang it caught GM off guard because the Mustang was the answer to the Plymouth Barracuda and GM was behind. All these pony cars were sporty cars assembled with parts bin parts from other car lines. Initially, in addition to the Chevy Camaro and Pontiac Firebird, Oldsmobile was supposed to have their own F body variant. The Camaro was the first introduced but the Firebird took way longer than anticipated due to DeLorean’s insistence that the Firebird had to be superior to the Camaro in every way. All these delays actually screwed Oldsmobile out of their own version of the F body.
@@benn454 Not really. The Camaro and Firebird was GM’s response to the Ford Mustang. Chevy would have a version as GM’s sales leader and Pontiac would have one as GM’s (supposed) performance division. Oldsmobile was also supposed to have their own F body because their sales were slumping at the time.
Assume management saw it being a competitor to the vette simply by it being half the price and decided to axe it. Imagine the M2 being half price to the M3..
Now I have another dream car on my list. A C3 corvette/Banshee restomod conversion. C3 donor car, custom Pontiac syled wheels, headlights, taillights, and some of other styling changes, turned aluminum dash, etc., and most importantly, a 455 Pontiac engine.
Bravo. Excellent video. Well researched, good production, no excess fat. I watch a lot of classic car videos, and many times give up halfway through. This one was all meat and no fat. Thank you.
Nothing can be faster than the Corvette, period...! GM has killed quite a few very cool cars because they were faster than the Corvette...! It's sad, but true...! Thanks for sharing... Keep up your awesomeness...
@@PaulKurz-iy7iv To be fair, the Grand National probably helped extend the life of that platform by years. GM was killing off RWD platforms left, right and centre in that era, to the point there was discussion of the F-body going FWD.
Nowadays the people you see driving Corvettes are usually old, white-haired men, it's a grandpa sports car. The new mid-engine Corvettes look too much like Ferraris, how are they at attracting younger drivers?
@@maxbrandt6 They got too damn expensive. They've always been priced twice as much as the pony cars it seems, today that is a big difference than the 60s. A 65 Mustang sold for around 3000 for a GT model where the vette was over 6000, today that Mustang GT is close to 40000 and the vette is almost 90000. It's just out of reach for the young crowd who would drive the car like it should be driven, the Mustang is still in the range of the average buyer for performance that rivals the vette in the right engine package, and with some aftermarket parts will beat that expensive vette. The Camaro is going to be gone soon and maybe the Dodge cars due to government interference with what the market wants, people need to fight for the freedom to choose an enjoyable ride before they disappear for good. You can always get a classic vette for a reasonable price today and enjoy.
It's been said that when GM axed the idea for the car they allowed Corvette designers to use much of the design to create the C3. SO this car did end up becoming the c3 corvette.
Thank you for this video. It brought back great memories and being educational. I was a teenager, graduating high school in 1964. My friends and I liked the '63 Tempest. But, loved the '64 Pontiacs. My family were always "Chevy" people. Me, I've always been a "Pontiac" person. Owned a few over the years. My two favorites were a 1968 Grand Prix and a 1993 Grand Prix. RIP Pontiac, I still love you.
this car reminds me strongly of a car called the opel gt made by the german brand adam opel ag in 1968 to 1973...and opel used to be a subsidiary of GM for almost 88 years until they sold to the french motor company psa in 2017...in germany we also called the opel gt "mini corvette"... but i can imagine opel took some inspiration for the gt from this pontiac.
There were a few Opel GT and Manta vehicles in Southern California where I grew up in that era. I don't know how popular these models were in the rest of the US.
@@chairman-jenkem-yogurt ya i lived in so cal in the 80´s and early 90´s before moving back to germany in 96...we were german migrants and my step dad opened a small well running repair shop for european cars and i remember seeing a few german import mantas and gt´s come into the shop to get inspections and such, do to the orange county and anaheim area having a pretty large german community...and i cant tell you how often people came in just to ask what cars these are... my guess is if you saw these cars in the US then mostly in areas with german communities near by since these cars are imports and not the typical kind like porsche, mercedes, and co...you kind of had to be a german culture insider to even know the brand opel...
@@DannyWildmen well if you drove an opal it must have been a real jewel...lol... but if you drove a 1958 opel it was probably a kapitän or olympia and honestly many cars from that era where rust buckets if you did´nt care right for them...cavity sealing with wax and galvanizing body panels was´nt all that common and paint layers where thin in the 50´s so most cars that where exposed to wind and weather year round rusted away within a few years if you had a poor care and maintanence game... and you got to remember 58 was 10 years after ww2 and germany was still rebuilding parts of the country...so they had better to do then produce high quality metal sheets for body panels...at that time many car parts where sourced cheaply from other countries...that and from 56 to 57 german metal industy workers started the longest strike against the bad work conditions in german history...so you truly picked a bad year to drive a car from germany! but that been said you´ve also gotta remember opel was/is no brand like mercedes...opel´s focus was allways to produce affordable cars for the average people and like most cars of that kind they have to save on cost´s somewhere and thats usually the quality of the parts they use!
@@pauls.8748 Grew up on the east coast and old enough to have been around when the Opel GT was new. They weren't what I would call common to see but not that rare either saw plenty of them. I thought they were a mini Corvette back then.
@@stuglenn1112 ya the production numbers of the gt were a little over 100,000 cars, and do to the baby corvette design it caught the eye of americans pretty quick...and actually almost half of all the cars produced got imported to the US and Buick overtook all things marketing and distribution...but concidering the size and population of america then the around 50,000 cars is´nt that big of a number and still made them a pretty rare sight... and i cant speak for the 60´s and 70´s or the east coast...but i know that in the 80´s and 90´s on the west coast these cars became a very rare sight...many did´nt age very well do to rust issues and those that did make it you primarilly saw in areas with german communities who still knew what opel even was.
Typical Pontiac history be like Design new sports car Cheap to build Capable using a V8 engine GM scared to lose Corvette sales, nerfs the engine or kills the entire project
I bought my girst car at 13 years old. Was a 1951 Pontiac Chieftain convertible with a huge straight 8. When I think of what that car would be worth these days, the nausea just sets in
Wow, 16,000 views in the first 11 hours! Bravo! Finally getting the attention you deserve. Always a pleasure to watch your videos, glad you've kept up the hard work! Thanks!
An interesting thought. The block dimensions of the Pontiac V8's from the muscle car years were the same. You could literally remove a 301 Pontiac engine and drop in a 455 and use the same engine mounts. These cars may have started life with a Pontiac 326, but it would have been only a matter of time before they received Ram Air Iv 400's and HO455's.
100% correct. I feel that GM’s 400CI limit in A body cars was to prevent Pontiac from ruling the performance scene at GM. There would have been $0 added to allow Pontiac to install a 421 in the original GTO or the later 428. They finally lifted that for the 1970 model year which was the pinnacle of GM performance and the first year for Pontiac and Buick’s 455. Oldsmobile was given the green light for their 455 for sharing the FWD Toronado with Cadillac in 1968. But Pontiac had stuffed most of their high performance R&D into the 400 because it was the biggest engine allowed into their high performance cars. It always puzzled me as to how the 1969 428 HO had a 390 HP rating but the 455 was only rated at 370 HP in 1970.
A couple of years ago, Napoli Classics in CT had the coupe for sale. FYI: Every Pontiac engine from the 287 to the 455 used the same outside block dimensions.
@@707x-y6s Agreed. The point being that here and elsewhere writers report, "We can fit a 389 in there." When anywhere a 326 fits, the 389/400/455 will fit. Pontiac already put a 421 in the first gen Tempest.
My dad's friend owned a tool and die company that was making molds for model car kits for this car, he has them all in his cellar and hasn't sold a single one. like 300 of them still in the box.
Excellent capture, thanks, I never knew of the cars. But it enforces this observation: Ever since they've been rolling out concept cars, every single one of them screams: "These are what we're capable of making, but instead - you get the Pinto, Vega and Pacer." Society is retarded by the industrial scale stifling of it's artisans thanks to pusillanimous executives with an over supply of dullness accented by their myopia.
The vette is what killed the banshee, the GM auto group was not going to allow a car that even came close to the corvette. The vette had a foothold of followers and that's what sank em, it's that simple.
"What could have been?" This car should have gone into production. It is stunning. Even though I was not even born at the time of its creation, I would have purchased one if I was. Thanks for creating and posting :) DM.
Mustang owner checking in. Enjoyed Pontiac's complete underestimation of the mustang. And calling it a four seater is hilarious though I guess technically true. I also agree that Pontiac was never what it could be. As a Ford guy I always had a soft spot for the arrowhead. We are less as an automotive culture without Pontiac. RIP. The brand is missed. Grandma had a 85 Bonneville that was pure class. She had that AC crankin and Gaither gospel tapes on while cousin and I sat in the back. Good times.
What could have been. I see so many striking design features from the Banshee used on some of Pontiac's more contemporary models, like the 1980's Corvette Stingray, Firebird and Trans Am, especially the tail-lights. This car was absolutely beautiful, but form follows function, and Pontiac/GM made a business decision based upon Pontiac's market, relative to other brands within the GM line-up. She may have cannibalized sales for other GM Models (Corvette), and she certainly wasn't practical. The Banshee may have never been mass-produced, but Pontiac never lost track of their dream to actually produced an inexpensive 2-seat sports car--The Pontiac Fiero. Their target audience was spot on, going after recent college grads with a low-cost, cute, 2-seat roadster. Other than marketing a 2-seat sports car, the Banshee and Fiero had little in common. However, the innovation in design and concept was radical, and bode well for Fiero at first. Mechanical issues, in addition to complete impracticality made the Fiero a dog pretty quickly, no matter how pretty it was.
I saw one that's on display in Milford CT at Napoli Classic Motors a few years ago. I thought it was an early 70's corvette. Until I saw the 1.2 million dollar price tag.
1989 Fiero prototype was axed because Chevy executives did not want Corvette competition for a cheaper price. I had an 86 and 87 Fiero GT. The 88 Fiero was the best with new Lotus suspension and other improvements.
I really don't see the big deal, it just looks like a prototype for what became the Firebird. Pontiac was putting out some serious product from the late 60's to the early 70's. Their big 455 Super-Duty & High Output were bad-ass engines which where capable of 350HP stock. With about $250 in basic modifications (back then) you could bump the output up to 380-385 very easily. I still think those 1970 & 71' Firebirds are sexy, high performing machines.
My friend had a 78' Pontiac LeMans. It had a 3.8 liter 6 cylinder but my buddy told me you could bolt a 400 c.i. V-8 in it no problem. He had that car for years and it was matenence free. Except for oil changes and brakes...
I remember seeing this car when I was growing up and really wanted it Then I turned 16 and fell in love with my 67 Firebird later on in a couple years meet my wife she had a 68 firebird After a couple more years we found a 68 Convertible 400 HO it wasn’t in great shape but we had fun in in it not going to tell the disgrace full amount I had to sell it for but it went to a good home
CADILLAC, THE STINGRAY, and the PONTIAC GTO set the bar for auto manufacturers in the 1960s. In 1964 , the FORD MUSTANG had car buyer's taking another look at the Ford lineup.
My first two cars were Pontiacs. Absolutely loved everything about both of them. My first car in 2008 was a 1998 Firebird and it was an absolute magnet for both women and police, it was a T-top with removable sun roofs on either side. Around 2013 I bought a 2002 Pontiac Bonneville my second car which wasn’t nearly as sleek as the Firebird but was much more comfortable and quick for a full sized sedan 2002. The Bonneville was the group choice for long distance drives and road trips. TLDR; Buy a used Pontiac! You won’t regret it.
They did. Harley earl was the designer of the original corvette. He was working with Pontiac and they designed and built a car called the Bonneville Special. chevy then used the design and it became the corvette
The front design reminds me of the first Lamborghini design from Franco Scaglione from 1963 for the 3.5 litre Coupe which was rejected from Feruccio L. It had also hidden front lights with that division…
Even though GMs policy of making 4-5 models that were practically the same ( Chevelle, GTO, 442, Buick GS) with parts interoperability, i was always the Pontiac fan growing up.... 1st car 69 Firebird 400 Ram Air III and later 8 Trans Ams ( 455HOs, SDs) it was DeLorean's forward thinking that always rankled the bean counters. But he made legendary cars.
It was from these men that the Pontiac Fiero was made in 1984. Although cancelled after 5 years of production the mid engine 2 seater that Delorean deperately wanted to build with Pontiac goes on to still be on the road today driven the world over.
I had the pleasure of seeing this car in person at the Iola Wisconsin Old Car Show about 20 years ago. I hope the owner was able to get my drool off the paint, it's truly a work of automotive art.
Gam axed delireon s Banshee, which- was built along side, loosely,, the Opel GT concept. Opel gt went into production early 68- Corvette followed 2 months later, with the C3.. they axed the Banshee, and stole the design..Good ole GM..smh..
The OHC6 used was the 230 1bbl engine (165 hp), not even a Sprint... yet. From what I'd heard this car with the 230 1bbl OHC6 was running circles around contemporary Corvettes with a 327 4bbl at the Milford Proving Grounds. Chevrolet couldn't allow that, and it was Chevrolet that demanded that the Banshee "never sees the light of day". When Chevrolet couldn't compete head-to-head, which was often, especially with Pontiac, they resorted to whining to GM Corporate to get their way. That included having the Pontiac OHC6 and Buick V6 put out of production for the Chevy 6 to be the "corporate" 6 cylinder engine, even though the OHC6 was heavily redesigned from the Chevy 6.
J Patrick Wright is not who called Pontiac an old person’s division and that Pontiac was in trouble, that was my father for whom he was the ghost writer, they were not his words but my father’s. My father is also the one who asked Collins if the engine would fit. I asked Collins why they didn’t use the even larger engine before he passed, it was because they had a lot of the 389s lying around. Collins stated that my father did something bo one else did at the time, let him present the idea himself to senior leadership. He said he appreciated my father for that and that my father was a great mentor of his.
Sorry, but the GXP and G8 were Holden; an Aussie built GM sub. I liked their designs but they were total sales flops. They definitely are not Pontiacs!
Pontiac had some amazingly beautiful cars between 1960 and 1967. The 1959 Catalina was a looker too. Then there was the 421SD motor. Aside from women's styles, the 1970's took an aesthetic nose dive. Music, Harley Davidson... just about everything got ugly in the 70's. It was depressing.
10:17-10:32 is actually from May, 1957 showing the virtually completed 1959 Chevrolet after several months of a crash re-doing of that year's models, just in the nick of time. So in fact, the '59 in reality is also a '57 Chevy! Having said that, I know it didn't belong in this video, but sure am glad it was. On the Banshee, it was beautiful but I can see would have cut into Corvette sales, and GM mgmt wasn't about to have that. Also, except for Corvette, GM's had a rough go with 2-seaters period (Riatta, Allente) in the late 1900s.
May-Ko youngster. Jeez! They didn’t want to take only so many customers away from the Corvette. Financial decision. Would not have brought in any more money but it would have been more cost to build both the Vette and the competing Pontiac.
If GM was beyond passionate with their vehicles. You would think they would have put more horsepower under the Corvette the next model year while apprving the multiple General Motors creatuins for even greater success.
My family loved Pontiacs , we had Le Mans,Catalinas,bonnevilles,grand prix’s, loved all of them whoever was in charge of pontiac should have been removed before it folded
This is the same thing that happened to the Dodge Nitro. It was very popular with mopar customers, so much so that the brand was killed because it was stealing sales away from Jeep. What a shame.
Damn, what a shame they got shut down trying to produce what would certainly have become a future classic. GM's all like "on with the malaise era! harumph, harumph". I might be crazy but I see a bit of a nod to Alpha's classic stylings in that two piece grill. All in all, it's a gorgeous design, too bad so sad. Thanks for the great video!
I remember seeing the Pontiac Pegasus up close. That car was a GM/Ferrari project. GM provided the body. Ferrari provided the power and interior. one of the most beautiful cars i've ever seen. only 1 was made.
We look at these beautiful cars and can only wonder what might have been and what stopped them, who pulled the plug and why. Their gorgeous and we'd love to own one today. Upper management was and still are today, responsible to the shareholders for profit and production numbers. In the 60's two seater sports cars were not in high demand at the dealerships. Not that there weren't any - there were, they simply weren't in high demand. Maybe it's just me but what killed these beautiful cars was they targeted a low percentage of the car buying market.
I think Pontiac made two fatal mistakes with the Banshee: 1. It was planned to have a V8 option, and 2. the styling looked too much like the C3 Corvette that was coming out a year after they planned their car's release. GM was never going to go for that.
The SP6 and XP models look great. I drove a Pontiac Tempest for a while it is fun and with a fairly cheap price too then, it remains an interesting brand yet.
I think it's pronounced "make-o" shark, not "mack-o" shark.
You're right. Sorry about that.
@@Barchetta No worries. I wasn't trying to be a jerk. Just wanted to let people know.
The Mako Shark Corvette was painted the colors of the Mako Shark.
Frickin shark-nadoes with laser beams on their heads!
If you want the same pronunciation as the fish, try, "Mahko-Shark" (long "a") The reader actually has it pretty close.
Those flip over headlights are right out of the Opel Gt parts bin.
I had one back in the day.
Everytime I pulled the lever to flip them over I felt like James Bond and imagined they were machine guns or rocket launchers.
😂😂
They weren't?
It’s actually the other was around.
Pontiac was a brand at GM that got kicked down every time they had a winner. GM used to outright steal product development from Pontiac just to give the advances to other divisions prior to allowing Pontiac to utilize their own improvements in subsequent model years after they had been marketed and proven by the other divisions.
Pontiac is part of GM duh
You’re right
PMD was the
Bastard Stepchild.
@@Floridaredwing25 No doubt about it but the board of directors had pet divisions they favored heavily.
Don’t really need to steal what you already own.
@@rapid13 That's true but barring Pontiac from using its own researched technology and giving the resource to a much better funded division was commonplace within GM. Making Pontiac seem a lesser vehicle in the GM lineup.
GM made a massive mistake by killing Pontiac.
I agree 👍
It was mostly a condition of the govt bail out in 08 . Thanks Obama.
Pontiac's entire history seems to be one slap down after another from GM especially when it came to any possible competition with the Corvette.
Till the final slap in 2009
Not just Pontiac. Every GM division had that problem. It's a minor miracle that the Camaro and Firebird ever got greenlit.
Sure was a slap down, the 1964 Pontiac Banshee never came about due to GM thinking it would move ppl away from buying the Corvette. GM then gave the design to Chevrolet to use as their 3rd gen Corvette. The same happened with the Firebird, every Firebird from 1967 is based off of the Camaro. That was the only way GM would allow Pontiac to put out a pony car.
@@dlm9477 I’m a huge Pontiac fan but I have to set the record straight about this one. When Ford introduced the Mustang it caught GM off guard because the Mustang was the answer to the Plymouth Barracuda and GM was behind. All these pony cars were sporty cars assembled with parts bin parts from other car lines. Initially, in addition to the Chevy Camaro and Pontiac Firebird, Oldsmobile was supposed to have their own F body variant. The Camaro was the first introduced but the Firebird took way longer than anticipated due to DeLorean’s insistence that the Firebird had to be superior to the Camaro in every way. All these delays actually screwed Oldsmobile out of their own version of the F body.
@@benn454 Not really. The Camaro and Firebird was GM’s response to the Ford Mustang. Chevy would have a version as GM’s sales leader and Pontiac would have one as GM’s (supposed) performance division. Oldsmobile was also supposed to have their own F body because their sales were slumping at the time.
I miss Pontiac
Mercury and Plymouth too.
I miss oldsmobile
I miss all of them.
Obama killed it.
Strong Opel GT vibes from the hard top.
Headlights are Opal
The Opel was based on the Corvette as well.
I'd much prefer to have an Opel GT, than a Corvette.
Assume management saw it being a competitor to the vette simply by it being half the price and decided to axe it.
Imagine the M2 being half price to the M3..
Now I have another dream car on my list. A C3 corvette/Banshee restomod conversion. C3 donor car, custom Pontiac syled wheels, headlights, taillights, and some of other styling changes, turned aluminum dash, etc., and most importantly, a 455 Pontiac engine.
GM duplicated the majority of their vehicles throughout all the GM companies. They didn’t want the Corvette duplicated.
That car should’ve been produced! It looks beautiful!
They did. Chevy took it for the later Corvette
Bravo. Excellent video. Well researched, good production, no excess fat. I watch a lot of classic car videos, and many times give up halfway through. This one was all meat and no fat. Thank you.
GM has continually gone down hill from the great 60s and 70s to lost in space.
Nothing can be faster than the Corvette, period...! GM has killed quite a few very cool cars because they were faster than the Corvette...! It's sad, but true...! Thanks for sharing... Keep up your awesomeness...
At some point someone shoulda said maybe your just not making the fast car fast enough
Like the Grand National
@@PaulKurz-iy7iv To be fair, the Grand National probably helped extend the life of that platform by years. GM was killing off RWD platforms left, right and centre in that era, to the point there was discussion of the F-body going FWD.
Nowadays the people you see driving Corvettes are usually old, white-haired men, it's a grandpa sports car. The new mid-engine Corvettes look too much like Ferraris, how are they at attracting younger drivers?
@@maxbrandt6 They got too damn expensive.
They've always been priced twice as much as the pony cars it seems, today that is a big difference than the 60s. A 65 Mustang sold for around 3000 for a GT model where the vette was over 6000, today that Mustang GT is close to 40000 and the vette is almost 90000. It's just out of reach for the young crowd who would drive the car like it should be driven, the Mustang is still in the range of the average buyer for performance that rivals the vette in the right engine package, and with some aftermarket parts will beat that expensive vette. The Camaro is going to be gone soon and maybe the Dodge cars due to government interference with what the market wants, people need to fight for the freedom to choose an enjoyable ride before they disappear for good.
You can always get a classic vette for a reasonable price today and enjoy.
1960’s was the most interesting decade for American auto makers.Style and muscle!
Maybe it's just me, but I see the C3 having taken much of its styling from this, rather than the Mako Shark.
You are correct. The vets parents were Pontiac 😎
It's been said that when GM axed the idea for the car they allowed Corvette designers to use much of the design to create the C3. SO this car did end up becoming the c3 corvette.
I always thought it was the Opel GT the C3 was a copy of, astheticly.
@@topcatcoast2coast579Those came out the same year.
@@number3665axed after stolen is more likely. The banshee is the stingrays.
Thank you for this video. It brought back great memories and being educational. I was a teenager, graduating high school in 1964. My friends and I liked the '63 Tempest. But, loved the '64 Pontiacs. My family were always "Chevy" people. Me, I've always been a "Pontiac" person. Owned a few over the years. My two favorites were a 1968 Grand Prix and a 1993 Grand Prix. RIP Pontiac, I still love you.
GM didn't produce this but did produce the Opel GT, which shares many styling similarities.
Opel was the German division of GM.
Opel GT was a German GM product
The Opel GT was an excellent car with a 400 stroker, I found that to be true, it's sitting in my garage right now.
I liked the opel GT but it was a little over priced. But it sure was sharp, looked like a mini Corvette! I did drive one an it was fun.
Don’t remember the Opel GT having a V8 in it.
What amazing concepts , too bad they didn’t come to fruition. Happy New years everyone. Cheers 🇨🇦
this car reminds me strongly of a car called the opel gt made by the german brand adam opel ag in 1968 to 1973...and opel used to be a subsidiary of GM for almost 88 years until they sold to the french motor company psa in 2017...in germany we also called the opel gt "mini corvette"... but i can imagine opel took some inspiration for the gt from this pontiac.
There were a few Opel GT and Manta vehicles in Southern California where I grew up in that era. I don't know how popular these models were in the rest of the US.
@@chairman-jenkem-yogurt ya i lived in so cal in the 80´s and early 90´s before moving back to germany in 96...we were german migrants and my step dad opened a small well running repair shop for european cars and i remember seeing a few german import mantas and gt´s come into the shop to get inspections and such, do to the orange county and anaheim area having a pretty large german community...and i cant tell you how often people came in just to ask what cars these are...
my guess is if you saw these cars in the US then mostly in areas with german communities near by since these cars are imports and not the typical kind like porsche, mercedes, and co...you kind of had to be a german culture insider to even know the brand opel...
@@DannyWildmen well if you drove an opal it must have been a real jewel...lol...
but if you drove a 1958 opel it was probably a kapitän or olympia and honestly many cars from that era where rust buckets if you did´nt care right for them...cavity sealing with wax and galvanizing body panels was´nt all that common and paint layers where thin in the 50´s so most cars that where exposed to wind and weather year round rusted away within a few years if you had a poor care and maintanence game...
and you got to remember 58 was 10 years after ww2 and germany was still rebuilding parts of the country...so they had better to do then produce high quality metal sheets for body panels...at that time many car parts where sourced cheaply from other countries...that and from 56 to 57 german metal industy workers started the longest strike against the bad work conditions in german history...so you truly picked a bad year to drive a car from germany!
but that been said you´ve also gotta remember opel was/is no brand like mercedes...opel´s focus was allways to produce affordable cars for the average people and like most cars of that kind they have to save on cost´s somewhere and thats usually the quality of the parts they use!
@@pauls.8748 Grew up on the east coast and old enough to have been around when the Opel GT was new. They weren't what I would call common to see but not that rare either saw plenty of them. I thought they were a mini Corvette back then.
@@stuglenn1112 ya the production numbers of the gt were a little over 100,000 cars, and do to the baby corvette design it caught the eye of americans pretty quick...and actually almost half of all the cars produced got imported to the US and Buick overtook all things marketing and distribution...but concidering the size and population of america then the around 50,000 cars is´nt that big of a number and still made them a pretty rare sight...
and i cant speak for the 60´s and 70´s or the east coast...but i know that in the 80´s and 90´s on the west coast these cars became a very rare sight...many did´nt age very well do to rust issues and those that did make it you primarilly saw in areas with german communities who still knew what opel even was.
Typical Pontiac history be like
Design new sports car
Cheap to build
Capable using a V8 engine
GM scared to lose Corvette sales, nerfs the engine or kills the entire project
DeLorean snuck the GTO past top brass. Too bad this got shot down.
I bought my girst car at 13 years old. Was a 1951 Pontiac Chieftain convertible with a huge straight 8. When I think of what that car would be worth these days, the nausea just sets in
Wow, 16,000 views in the first 11 hours! Bravo! Finally getting the attention you deserve. Always a pleasure to watch your videos, glad you've kept up the hard work! Thanks!
That thumbnail pic is pretty sweet.
This Ford at 5:17 sure does have a lot of Corvette-esque features from that top down view.
An interesting thought. The block dimensions of the Pontiac V8's from the muscle car years were the same. You could literally remove a 301 Pontiac engine and drop in a 455 and use the same engine mounts. These cars may have started life with a Pontiac 326, but it would have been only a matter of time before they received Ram Air Iv 400's and HO455's.
100% correct. I feel that GM’s 400CI limit in A body cars was to prevent Pontiac from ruling the performance scene at GM. There would have been $0 added to allow Pontiac to install a 421 in the original GTO or the later 428. They finally lifted that for the 1970 model year which was the pinnacle of GM performance and the first year for Pontiac and Buick’s 455. Oldsmobile was given the green light for their 455 for sharing the FWD Toronado with Cadillac in 1968. But Pontiac had stuffed most of their high performance R&D into the 400 because it was the biggest engine allowed into their high performance cars. It always puzzled me as to how the 1969 428 HO had a 390 HP rating but the 455 was only rated at 370 HP in 1970.
That is NOT true. The 326-455 were the same the 301 was NOT. smaller block. lower deck height and narrower intake area.
Dear Barchetta, these views are reflective of the quality of your videos, please keep going!
Imo one of the best researched and video about Pontiac no bs just facts OUTSTANDING VIDEO
they didn't give the Beach Boys a chance to sing about the Banshee.
A couple of years ago, Napoli Classics in CT had the coupe for sale.
FYI: Every Pontiac engine from the 287 to the 455 used the same outside block dimensions.
326-455 had the same outside dimensions.
301 had a short deck.
326, 350, 389, 400 had 3" mains.
421, 428, 455 had 3.25" mains.
@@707x-y6s Agreed. The point being that here and elsewhere writers report, "We can fit a 389 in there." When anywhere a 326 fits, the 389/400/455 will fit. Pontiac already put a 421 in the first gen Tempest.
@@rondpert5167 Understood..point taken.
My dad's friend owned a tool and die company that was making molds for model car kits for this car, he has them all in his cellar and hasn't sold a single one. like 300 of them still in the box.
Pontiac was always a threat to Chevy! Long live Pontiac.
Yup. And GM always sided with Chevy.
Excellent capture, thanks, I never knew of the cars. But it enforces this observation: Ever since they've been rolling out concept cars, every single one of them screams: "These are what we're capable of making, but instead - you get the Pinto, Vega and Pacer." Society is retarded by the industrial scale stifling of it's artisans thanks to pusillanimous executives with an over supply of dullness accented by their myopia.
Pusillanimous...now there's a word one doesn't see every day. Very apropos.
The vette is what killed the banshee, the GM auto group was not going to allow a car that even came close to the corvette. The vette had a foothold of followers and that's what sank em, it's that simple.
There was a Pontiac version of the Vette at the Gilmore Car Museum, north of Kalamazoo, Mi.
"What could have been?" This car should have gone into production. It is stunning. Even though I was not even born at the time of its creation, I would have purchased one if I was. Thanks for creating and posting :) DM.
@@karlwithak. Yes, very sad.
Mustang owner checking in. Enjoyed Pontiac's complete underestimation of the mustang. And calling it a four seater is hilarious though I guess technically true. I also agree that Pontiac was never what it could be. As a Ford guy I always had a soft spot for the arrowhead. We are less as an automotive culture without Pontiac. RIP. The brand is missed. Grandma had a 85 Bonneville that was pure class. She had that AC crankin and Gaither gospel tapes on while cousin and I sat in the back. Good times.
What could have been. I see so many striking design features from the Banshee used on some of Pontiac's more contemporary models, like the 1980's Corvette Stingray, Firebird and Trans Am, especially the tail-lights. This car was absolutely beautiful, but form follows function, and Pontiac/GM made a business decision based upon Pontiac's market, relative to other brands within the GM line-up. She may have cannibalized sales for other GM Models (Corvette), and she certainly wasn't practical. The Banshee may have never been mass-produced, but Pontiac never lost track of their dream to actually produced an inexpensive 2-seat sports car--The Pontiac Fiero. Their target audience was spot on, going after recent college grads with a low-cost, cute, 2-seat roadster. Other than marketing a 2-seat sports car, the Banshee and Fiero had little in common. However, the innovation in design and concept was radical, and bode well for Fiero at first. Mechanical issues, in addition to complete impracticality made the Fiero a dog pretty quickly, no matter how pretty it was.
No more than a cross between a Shelby Daytona, Corvette and Opel GT..
To not mention the Buick Opel GT in all of this is just unconscionable.
A company making these kind of decisions deserves to go bankrupt.
Yeah, Chevy can't have anything to outshine the Corvette, EVER! Still is true today. I'm biased though. I absolutely love Pontiac. I miss Pontiac.
I saw one that's on display in Milford CT at Napoli Classic Motors a few years ago. I thought it was an early 70's corvette. Until I saw the 1.2 million dollar price tag.
What great cars those could gave been!
I owned a 68 firebird convertible from 83-92. Beautiful car but I have to admit the 68 Camaro rs/ss convertible was my favorite.
$180K is a drop in the bucket of a current Automotive executive salary.
1989 Fiero prototype was axed because Chevy executives did not want Corvette competition for a cheaper price. I had an 86 and 87 Fiero GT. The 88 Fiero was the best with new Lotus suspension and other improvements.
I really don't see the big deal, it just looks like a prototype for what became the Firebird. Pontiac was putting out some serious product from the late 60's to the early 70's. Their big 455 Super-Duty & High Output were bad-ass engines which where capable of 350HP stock. With about $250 in basic modifications (back then) you could bump the output up to 380-385 very easily. I still think those 1970 & 71' Firebirds are sexy, high performing machines.
Nice presentation, informative, well done!
My friend had a 78' Pontiac LeMans. It had a 3.8 liter 6 cylinder but my buddy told me you could bolt a 400 c.i. V-8 in it no problem. He had that car for years and it was matenence free. Except for oil changes and brakes...
Good to see the Banshee get some attention. Great looking car!
I remember seeing this car when I was growing up and really wanted it
Then I turned 16 and fell in love with my 67 Firebird later on in a couple years meet my wife she had a 68 firebird
After a couple more years we found a 68 Convertible 400 HO it wasn’t in great shape but we had fun in in it not going to tell the disgrace full amount I had to sell it for but it went to a good home
CADILLAC, THE STINGRAY, and the PONTIAC GTO set the bar for auto manufacturers in the 1960s.
In 1964 , the FORD MUSTANG had car buyer's taking another look at the Ford lineup.
Is it possible, that the Banshee concept was inspiration for the Opel GT? Looks an awful like it. Beautiful cars.
My first two cars were Pontiacs. Absolutely loved everything about both of them. My first car in 2008 was a 1998 Firebird and it was an absolute magnet for both women and police, it was a T-top with removable sun roofs on either side. Around 2013 I bought a 2002 Pontiac Bonneville my second car which wasn’t nearly as sleek as the Firebird but was much more comfortable and quick for a full sized sedan 2002. The Bonneville was the group choice for long distance drives and road trips.
TLDR; Buy a used Pontiac! You won’t regret it.
If they were allowed to make that imagine what the fiero would be
Beautiful sports cars. We did get the more expensive Corvette and Pontiac's sports commuter car.
I honestly think the Firebird would've been better if it was based on the Corvette instead of the Camaro.
I think it's pretty ironic that Pontiac is probably best known now for the Trans Am, made famous by Burt Reynolds in "Smokey and the Bandit".😉
Imagine if Pontiac came out with a Corvette before Chevy.
They did. Harley earl was the designer of the original corvette. He was working with Pontiac and they designed and built a car called the Bonneville Special. chevy then used the design and it became the corvette
The front design reminds me of the first Lamborghini design from Franco Scaglione from 1963 for the 3.5 litre Coupe which was rejected from Feruccio L. It had also hidden front lights with that division…
Just what I thought
Too bad. If Pontiac was allowed this prototype to market, we'd see them and Firebird all over the place. Banshee was hot. Opel GT?
Even though GMs policy of making 4-5 models that were practically the same ( Chevelle, GTO, 442, Buick GS) with parts interoperability, i was always the Pontiac fan growing up.... 1st car 69 Firebird 400 Ram Air III and later 8 Trans Ams ( 455HOs, SDs) it was DeLorean's forward thinking that always rankled the bean counters. But he made legendary cars.
It was from these men that the Pontiac Fiero was made in 1984. Although cancelled after 5 years of production the mid engine 2 seater that Delorean deperately wanted to build with Pontiac goes on to still be on the road today driven the world over.
I had the pleasure of seeing this car in person at the Iola Wisconsin Old Car Show about 20 years ago. I hope the owner was able to get my drool off the paint, it's truly a work of automotive art.
Gam axed delireon s Banshee, which- was built along side, loosely,, the Opel GT concept. Opel gt went into production early 68- Corvette followed 2 months later, with the C3.. they axed the Banshee, and stole the design..Good ole GM..smh..
Roche had his head where the sun did not shine.
The SP5 was a beautiful concept that likely would have taken market share from the Corvette. GM would not allow that to happen.
Excellent video very informative.
The OHC6 used was the 230 1bbl engine (165 hp), not even a Sprint... yet. From what I'd heard this car with the 230 1bbl OHC6 was running circles around contemporary Corvettes with a 327 4bbl at the Milford Proving Grounds. Chevrolet couldn't allow that, and it was Chevrolet that demanded that the Banshee "never sees the light of day". When Chevrolet couldn't compete head-to-head, which was often, especially with Pontiac, they resorted to whining to GM Corporate to get their way. That included having the Pontiac OHC6 and Buick V6 put out of production for the Chevy 6 to be the "corporate" 6 cylinder engine, even though the OHC6 was heavily redesigned from the Chevy 6.
Pontiac was a killer in Nascar in the early 60's especially with Glen "Fireball" Roberts until GM banned factory participation.
GM will do anything to keep the corvette as the flagship
J Patrick Wright is not who called Pontiac an old person’s division and that Pontiac was in trouble, that was my father for whom he was the ghost writer, they were not his words but my father’s. My father is also the one who asked Collins if the engine would fit. I asked Collins why they didn’t use the even larger engine before he passed, it was because they had a lot of the 389s lying around.
Collins stated that my father did something bo one else did at the time, let him present the idea himself to senior leadership. He said he appreciated my father for that and that my father was a great mentor of his.
4:00 Man thanks for the video, it reminds me my red 2207 Pontiac Soltice, but more vintage that I like it ❤
To anyone that is interested the one and only Pontiac banshee is for sale at Napoli motors in milford ct.
An exciting new age, full of wonder and experiment... I'd have bought one.
Nissan and Toyota should declare James Roche a saint
Well now I see where Corvette got the idea from
As the owner of the last great pontiac built, the G8 GXP, I approve of this video 👍
Sorry, but the GXP and G8 were Holden; an Aussie built GM sub. I liked their designs but they were total sales flops. They definitely are not Pontiacs!
Pontiac had some amazingly beautiful cars between 1960 and 1967. The 1959 Catalina was a looker too. Then there was the 421SD motor.
Aside from women's styles, the 1970's took an aesthetic nose dive. Music, Harley Davidson... just about everything got ugly in the 70's. It was depressing.
Punk rock, Martha Quinn, MTV and Max Headroom pulled us out of the crapper.
I'm totally with you on that. 😔
Interesting piece of automotive history. Thank you.
Looks like both Ford and GM went on to build the wrong cars. The ones they abandoned were gorgeous.
10:17-10:32 is actually from May, 1957 showing the virtually completed 1959 Chevrolet after several months of a crash re-doing of that year's models, just in the nick of time. So in fact, the '59 in reality is also a '57 Chevy! Having said that, I know it didn't belong in this video, but sure am glad it was. On the Banshee, it was beautiful but I can see would have cut into Corvette sales, and GM mgmt wasn't about to have that. Also, except for Corvette, GM's had a rough go with 2-seaters period (Riatta, Allente) in the late 1900s.
May-Ko youngster. Jeez! They didn’t want to take only so many customers away from the Corvette. Financial decision. Would not have brought in any more money but it would have been more cost to build both the Vette and the competing Pontiac.
Congratulations!!
If GM was beyond passionate with their vehicles. You would think they would have put more horsepower under the Corvette the next model year while apprving the multiple General Motors creatuins for even greater success.
Bring back Pontiac!
My family loved Pontiacs , we had Le Mans,Catalinas,bonnevilles,grand prix’s, loved all of them whoever was in charge of pontiac should have been removed before it folded
I've never heard an AI voice with a lisp.
GM refused to allow its production because their darling Corvette might be embarrassed. So GM Killed it.
This is the same thing that happened to the Dodge Nitro. It was very popular with mopar customers, so much so that the brand was killed because it was stealing sales away from Jeep. What a shame.
Damn, what a shame they got shut down trying to produce what would certainly have become a future classic. GM's all like "on with the malaise era! harumph, harumph". I might be crazy but I see a bit of a nod to Alpha's classic stylings in that two piece grill. All in all, it's a gorgeous design, too bad so sad. Thanks for the great video!
Maybe it's classic BMW roadster I see in that grill.
I remember seeing the Pontiac Pegasus up close. That car was a GM/Ferrari project. GM provided the body. Ferrari provided the power and interior. one of the most beautiful cars i've ever seen. only 1 was made.
My 1984 Pontiac Fiero shows its roots in the earlier Pontiac.
The reason Pontiac is no more with us in 14 minutes
Having GM guide America's automotive future was like allowing the Nazis to plan a bar mitzvah.
Still driving my 02 Bonneville with a 3.8 with over 250000 miles bought it new.
We look at these beautiful cars and can only wonder what might have been and what stopped them, who pulled the plug and why. Their gorgeous and we'd love to own one today. Upper management was and still are today, responsible to the shareholders for profit and production numbers. In the 60's two seater sports cars were not in high demand at the dealerships. Not that there weren't any - there were, they simply weren't in high demand. Maybe it's just me but what killed these beautiful cars was they targeted a low percentage of the car buying market.
I think Pontiac made two fatal mistakes with the Banshee: 1. It was planned to have a V8 option, and 2. the styling looked too much like the C3 Corvette that was coming out a year after they planned their car's release. GM was never going to go for that.
The SP6 and XP models look great. I drove a Pontiac Tempest for a while it is fun and with a fairly cheap price too then, it remains an interesting brand yet.