Player Driven Campaign Creation in 5e Dungeons & Dragons and TTRPG- Web DM
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2018
- So many people ask us how to help their players get as excited as they are about the campaign. So we made a video about worldbuilding with your players! Turn that railroading heartbreaker into a collaborative experience that everyone is invested in! Don't forget to subscribe, comment & share. New episodes every Wednesday.
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It sounds so familiar! I'm glad I can finally listen to people talk about gaming without my brain leaking out my ear! (Thanks so much for the twitter shoutout!)
My pleasure, Courtney! You've been a huge influence on my thinking about GMing.
Tried to find that Warhammer game, but alas...
well i mean if they don't take care of the bandits harassing travelers on the road, they're going to run into them from time to time on the road until they find their hideout and take care of the problem...various regions have problems and until they're taken care of they are problems unless they travel out of that region, doesn't mean its a 100% chance they're going to get ambushed or anything but the chance of an encounter is increased and the chance that it will be bandits is increased
I've fudged dice. I do have to admit that. I had a giant scorpion. Should have been a hard encounter but their monk with a -1con wanted to tank it. the third session in. new to d&d player but has a few months of RP experience from some sci-fi rp. I rolled a tail attack. crit. rolled like a 2 below max damage would have been an instant death for the char no death saves. so i told him he got hit by 3 points less than he did to allow the death saves he was so excited about the character and all.... I don't regret it.
I feel ya, I have a bad habit of overestimating the capabilities of my characters. Once I threw two gladiators and two druids against a party of level 3/4 players before realizing that "OH HEY, CR 8 IS ACTUALLY REALLY FUCKING TOUGH. MAYBE I SHOULDA THROWN JUST ONE AT THEM", and instead of letting the monsters steamroll my people, I fudged die rolls, turned crits into hits and made it a very close, tense, exciting fight that ended in a TPK and mutual destruction with the last PC getting KOd just as he took out the final guy. I let the party roll through their death saves to see who survived and let them all escape the dungeon with one hitpoint.
Yeah, fudging dice is not a binary thing. It's not either all good or all bad. Most of the time you _should_ let the dice fall where they may...but sometimes you should fudge.
At the end of the day, we're not playing a game to be perfect simulationists. Where here to have fun. If a dice result would just ruin the session for everyone...well, do what you gotta do to keep the session from being ruined.
I might have the DM impose a limit on themselves. They get a small number of "Fiat Rerolls" per sessions. No more than three, and even that is pushing it. Just to keep themselves from running wild with the power of fudge. Because fudge is a dangerous force, not to be trifled with. Delicious, but fraught with peril.
I completely agree, for the most part i let the dice fall as they may but sometimes i adjust dice to break a lucky streak on my behalf or prevent death. This is often something which I see happen at lower levels and almost never at higher levels.
I don't agree that fudging dice is just bad, it's a tool which can be used occasionally but it should be carefully considered.
I haven't fudged dice, but I have fudged enemy data, in that I sometimes design enemies (potential reoccurring villains) without giving them stats and just make up how much hurt they put out and can take on the fly. Every roll went exactly as it should, but I didn't have to worry about the villain not getting to show up again because his HP was "infinite," in a sense. He would have fled after a reasonable amount of damage through a legitimate, pre-established power. Instead, my players fled after clashing for awhile and realizing with two massive monsters and a slew of soldiers on the way, this is not a battle they could win. (It actually was winnable. Difficult, but doable. I was surprised to see them value self-preservation so much.)
Stupid monk, what kind of melee character has a negative con mod . . . and then tries to tank . . . . . well, anything
21:20 Just this last Monday we had a huge set-piece inside a tower in our weekly game that involved a bunch of orc casters, guards, ogre shamans, and an evil empirical human wizard.
Right before we burst in through the windows S.W.A.T. style, my character used the party's Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals and summoned the elemental beside the wizard.
Elemental had higher initiative and the wizard failed his strength save against its Whelm and spent the entire encounter grappled, restrained, and drowning (read: silenced) inside the elemental.
After the huge battle, our DM just laughed and smiled, saying "That wizard was going to fuck y'all up. You have no idea how great a plan it was to trap him inside that water elemental. He was going to be casting some messed up stuff but if he couldn't breathe, he couldn't cast."
Sometimes you have to let your players' great plan follow through. I think a DM who gets annoyed or frustrated that his uber epic encounter gets steam-rolled should be proud of his players for thinking up a viable means of getting through it. If it happens frequently, particularly through cheesy means, that's something you should be planning for or addressing the party or offending member that's doing it. Otherwise, sometimes your players just come up with a great plan and you should let it play out.
Another great video. So glad I found this channel.
"The most important things that were going to happen to that character had already happened, the most adventure they were ever gonna have had been written into that background"
Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssss.
And that's why exactly like Jim I stopped accepting backgrounds and switched to questionnaires.
What kind of questions do you include?
This was suuuuuch a good point
The background stuff in Xanathar's was great for this, it's enough to color your character with interesting experiences but nothing that's gonna overshadow the events of the campaign
So never thougth of using a questionare! So gonna do that with my next campaign 😀😀😀❤
I used bacon battalian's questions as a guide for players to make back grounds.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the "big damn quest" so long as it isn't railroaded. There may be a threat that the good guys need help from the players in order to stop, but if the players go off and do something else that's fine, so long as the villain is slowly winning. Eventually, when half of the continent is taken, the players are then going to feel and organic sense of urgency.
I see what you're saying. But generally if the players are having a problem with "the big damn quest", then there was probably a miss communication between the Players and GM about what to expect out of the campaign.
Though I also understand "burn out" to be expected, that is a good time to use what you just said, as long as the players are warned about the impending doom taking place though. I can see where something big happened that the players were supposed to intervene, like, "The Lich Krocera took over [Insert Important City]!" Could be fine, but taking over half of the Sword Coast cause the players decide to do a few dungeons and weren't warned once about it, could kinda come off as "Huh huh, should have payed attention what I originally set out for you."
I exaggerate of course, as you may have, I just feel it's fair to warn players of big events they could have stopped. Like a favored NPC is running after them to tell them grave news. But it could makes sense if they accidentally took part in a short Underdark/Planar adventure and no one knew where they went. (Much like Avatar XD)
TLDR: If there’s a big evil then other adventurers can do the parts your party doesn’t want to do. If your party wants to ambush cult leaders instead of negotiate with other factions let someone else negotiate while the party decapitates the enemy leadership and gathers intel for friendly forces. Or maybe your group wants to focus on diplomacy and running a large business on making weapons and armor for friendly forces. While someone else kicks doors and kills monsters.
Something I did was asked the party what they want to do with Rise if Tiamat and they didn’t want to do political shenanigans or even dungeon crawls. They wanted to RP with the NPCs they like and use magic to make complex IED ambushes of cult members.
So that’s what we did. Another party did the politics and even the infiltration to stop the summoning ritual, the group wanted to kill dragons with the armies of the Sword Coast in front of the temple, scream insults to Tiamat and put as much enemy attention as possible to the outside of the temple. All of this was because of player input.
@@yellowbeard1 Beautiful.
My favorite thing, as a DM, is to secretly incorporate many aspects of the characters backstories into the story and the fantasy world. It' fun to find opportune times for a big reveal of a major plotline that includes their backgrounds is a fantastic way for dramatic storytelling or cliffhangers to end gaming sessions.
I was playing a game a couple years ago where I put a former friend in my backstory that happened to fit the description of a villain he had made, and that's how my local informant and trusted friend became possessed by a demon.
It's also a way to flesh out the game world. The players do it with their backgrounds.
Every player already expects this. This isn't so much a good move as it is a necessary move. Doing it doesn't automatically make your campaign good - but not doing it will almost certainly make it boring to be a player in.
@@gnarlestongnu637 -nah. I have played in many games where characters backgrounds weren't used in this way. The dm had a strong story to tell and it was great.
I've been DMing a campaign for two years now. 80% of current events are based on stuff that has happened over that period of time. We'll be starting a new campaign in the near future, and some of the events that take part of the lore involve previous characters in some way.
Watching their "wait a minute what" faces is entertaining, especially when they come across NPCs they've dealt with in the past and didn't think much of them.
Shh don't let them know they hold the power
That illusion is all we've got
Cannot stress enough: a successful party and tabletop sesh, relies heavily on COMMUNICATION & RESPECT. If everyone is open minded, patient, and constructive, the machine maintains its well oiled state. If there's something you hate or really like, make sure you relay that to the DM. It'll only help for future development and aim. And the same vice versa for the GM to discuss with their players.
The GM is only as strong as their players. Similar to a God, they have no power if they have no disciples/followers. D&D is a very symbiotic relationship. And hopefully it revolves around fun, because if not, what are you working towards.
*edit: The Sword?! Epic underrated band. Even more inspiration points to you gents.
THE SWORD!!!!!
JPruInc favorite song/album? Warp Riders, for me. That's where I was introduced to them.
The Big LeBoschski I’d say Age of Winters or Acocryphon.
Really good advice here. I have to say, it’s all sounding very Powered By The Apocalypse. A lot of this stuff is very much codified in the text for games like Apocalypse World and Dungeon World.
About the question of player freedom: for me, the absolute most crucial thing is that the players tell me in advance of a session what they intend to do in that session. That way, I can prep for each session as needed, in a self-contained way, so each session is satisfying. I also have my more “zoomed out” notes for the whole campaign world, but they only need to be very lightly detailed.
ITS FINALLY WEDNESDAY
"Is it wednesday yet?"
Computer problems guys!
@@WebDM Just say you are a time Lord, it is much more believable.
In Rise of Tiamat as a player. Completely on rails. We captured the Black Dragon Mask, gave it to Lariel and her crack team of wizards who contained it in a magic vault...and, it disappeared. The Draakhorn called it to Dragon HQ or something. Lariel tells us to go get the Blue Mask from a turncoat at Xonothal's Tower. I ask why we would risk a mission getting something we can't hold onto. She says, We need a win." -- DM. DM's old friend says we can contain it with his 6th level spell ability or box of many dimensions or something.
The 'planned' TPK with the blue dragon in Waterdeep & these missions where the 'princess' is always in the other castle makes me wonder.
Maybe the DM will let us capture the blue mask or maybe [add arbitrary etc].
My players get better and better sessions every week because of you guys!
Happy we can help. Thanks for the feedback!
When a player hands me a multi-page character background, it feels like freaking Christmas. Finally, someone willing to put in a fraction of the amount of effort into their story as I do into mine. And you better believe I incorporate their story heavily into the campaign. I recently finished a six month long arc centered on my Bard and the evil green dragon her long lost father had been forced to serve. She discovered (both the player and the character) that her roomate's character was actually her biological mother (a secret that player kept from her for those six months). It was epic. At the end of this arc the Bard player got a tattoo based on my campaign. Proudest moment of my DMing life.
I can't say I completely agree with you when it comes to tweaking encounters. Especially in the player's favor. Ultimately you are constantly beta-testing your players with your encounters and if something is too difficult I agree with some great GMs like Matt Colville that you may need to tweak to avoid punishing the players for being your beta testers. Now that doesn't mean you should tweak all the time, but there are situations I think would warrant it.
I'm so grateful this exists, I've been looking for advice like this for a long time.
I think the important aspect of "illusionist" style DMing is that the players don't ever find out. Which means it has to be pretty subtle, unlike the examples in this video. If you suggest that a manticore encounter is at the end of one tunnel, you can't just swap it out without justification or your players will immediately realise you're messing with them.
So my current campaign, which I intended to be somewhat open-ended for my newer players (plus one veteran), has pretty much become a player-driven campaign thanks to two of the PCs’ backstories. One is the primary reason the party is in the starting region, and has a particular long-term goal to find his family. The other has a long-term goal of taking over an empire that’s one of the major players in the setting. The other players are perfectly fine with helping them, so the party has an established set of major goals they’re aiming for.
Now I’m just seeing how to mix the two major goals together, and it’s not that hard. It’s nice that I’m getting such an interesting game from a group of mostly new players. :D
That sounds like an awesome plan! I hope your characters enjoy it!
I'm planning to make a campaign after my party finishes the printed adventure we're doing, thanks for the tips!
Glad to help! Good luck!
I fudge dice, but as i grow and become a more experienced DM i find i have to do it less and less
22:2. What do you do when the players curb stomp an encounter you had meticulously put together so fast they don't even learn the cool backstory OR get the next clue? Here is my personal number one trick: Revenge Plot! The Curbstomped NPCs bigger, badder cousin shows up seeking revenge for their disgraced cousin. It also turns out the bigger, badder cousin ALSO has a cool backstory and knows a clue.
Oooh, player agency talk! Perfect! I was already gonna do a presentation on Player Questionnaires for my D&D Club, so this’ll help to make a whole meeting about helping DM’s make games more Player-Centered! (To an extent, nobody wants to read your 18-page backstory Josh!)
If you want to bring some mechanical incentive into running a player-driven campaign, then I highly recommend lifting the Beliefs and Artha system from *The Burning Wheel*. The short version is that each player character gets to write three beliefs or goals which it is the GMs job to challenge through game-play. If their beliefs drive the story each session then they are rewarded with Artha. For a DnD translation, Artha could either be interpreted as 'experience points', or as a spendable 'inspiration' resource that grants advantage. This creates a positive feedback loop where the PCs spend their Artha on rolls to drive the story with their beliefs and then get rewarded for doing so.
Funny thing is most of my players actually prefer to play "My" story. It is very interesting to go from players who are like "The DM cannot offer ANYTHING! it is entirely player based" to going to another group who is like "We want to dive into your head and see what sort of story you want to tell DM".
This kind of method works REALLY well for Curse of Strahd- let the player characters dictate what's important. One of my characters is a Raven Queen warlock? Well now, Mother Night is the Raven Queen! One of my characters wants to be an American soldier from World War 2 who gets whisked away to Barovia? Maybe his destiny is more than meets the eye!
Gage Smith The WW2 soldier thing is badass. Did they get a gun and/or grenades? Did you throw in a Nazi vampire spawn as a personal enemy?
I did not. Guns were the big no-no, they faded away as his surroundings did when the mist came in.
Thank you guys so much for this channel! I'm a long-time player, first-time DM and I love the advice!
You are welcome! DMing is just like playing, except you just play more characters.
You two are my absolute favorite dnd youtubers, period
Sooo insightful and fun to listen to
Pruitt: maybe your fighters master was killed
Me: Hello my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
The beginning description about the players and their backgrounds being the main focus is all of my campaigns.
Part of the reason that I like to start with a backstory is that it makes it easier for me to figure out what their personality and capabilities should be, your not there to play out the backstory... most of the time at least, your there to play out the results of that backstory.
Thank you for articulating some things that I hold to be sacred truths about DMing. I never, ever fudge, and have cultivated a bit of a reputation amongst my peer group behind that. I think two of the keys many DMs miss is making failure fun (don't gatekeep the fun parts behind successful die rolls) and giving your NPCs in a combat encounter something to do other than kill the PCs. You know you're doing it right when the players contemplate "I know we have to stop them and we'd all probably die, but I kind of really want to know what happens when the Goblins get that valve open."
During the talk about fudging dice rolls Jim says, "Would you accept it from a player?" I think this could become a great DM mantra for many elements of the game. It's a game and we're all players. Yes, the DM is a ref and is coordinating but the players have agreed to follow a set of rules. The DM is a player and should abide by the same social contract and play by the rules. That makes them a truly unbiased ref.
This was fortuitous timing, I was just today looking for advice on this! Thanks for your help, gentlemen.
I'm running my first campaign right now and this is really helpful advice, thank you dungeon daddies
Good Luck! Come back and tell us how it went.
How did it go?
There is a huge difference between a plot that you are dropped into and a plot that has a lot of places for a player's back story to fit in.
In general you should have a like half page character background. It lets you pull forth important people and things in the past briefly. Lets you get into it more if you want to or let the DM use or ignore what ever they want. Helps if you have a bullet point thing with it that has important names and roles for people you mention.
Thanks for another awesome video. You guys have been my biggest help as I learn to DM. I'm running 3.5 but all of your advice has been a great asset. Also, I just ordered one of those Run D&D shirts!
I've been putting together a campaign for a while, that I'm pretty proud of how I'm doing it.
The genesis was a map, of a real city, but redrawn so that none of the names or recognizable elements would be identified. I labeled a couple major features on the map, and laid out some "territories" for different power factions, and then left most of the map alone.
The next step, I created 3 lists, 20 items each, for random encounter rumors. So when the PCs run into townspeople and talk to them, there are a list of rumors that they'll run into. Each of these could generate a session or two. The reason for 3 lists is so that commoners, nobles, and merchant/soldier type people have different rumors.
This is where the PCs first enter as level 1s, but not to play. The players give me the rough features of their characters as level 1, and I provide the rough details of how their character exists in the city. At that point, they're tasked with leveling him up to 3, and bringing the details of those early adventures back to me. Those adventures become the current events and recent past that brings the city to life. This also ensures that each character is invested in the city's goings on.
I have created several sort of generic adventures for whoever shows up, if the situation arises that things aren't progressing. But my hope is that by being part of the legend of the city, each player continues to be motivated to add to it. Part of the intention also is that there be players that aren't always present, so that when they return they find out the new changes in the city, and in turn add events that other players will discover...
Ooo thank you new episode .. downloading it for after lunch
I love your love for The Sword!
I love that you guys love the sword
Warp Riders album is my favorite i thought i was the only person who thought of making it a spelljammer campaign until i heard you guys talk about it a few videos back!
I swear you guys can read my thoughts. Every episode for the past 3 or 4 weeks have been on topics I’ve been thinking a lot about leading up to the week the episode is released. Great video guys!
He found out! Neutralize him! Neutralize him!!!
This was extremely insightful, thank you
My philosophy on Backstories is to create a short history that tells me where the character learned his abilities and why he’s out adventuring, something that will give that character a voice and let me know how that character reacts to situations. I try to avoid tragic backstories because it’s a bit cliche. It’s funny when you sit down to a table and there are more characters with tragic backstories than an episode of Naruto. I also try to keep the backstories short. The character shouldn’t have experienced more before he is first level than most characters experience by the time they are 20th level.
Starting my second campaign in two weeks this video has definitely given me some good ideas for session zero.
good one where the "players" are interactive in a movie is The Princess Bride.
I love the Mythic Legions ogre on the shelf behind Pruit.
Another great thing GMs can do is ask the players for something related to their PC, such as an item, location, event, or NPC which can be tied into the preexisting pieces of the setting. And it doesn't have to be some pre-written backstory of your character, it could be something done at the table, in the moment! Not only does it ease the burden of the GM to come up with adventure hooks that incorporate your Character better, but also allows you to feel like the game is partly yours (because that is how the game should be). Bonus points if you come up with something that has no direct benefit or link to your character! :D
Also, couldn't agree with you more about The Sword, Pruitt. I've probably listened to their whole discography multiple times now, sometimes forgetting that I have been listening to the same band for the last few days purely due to them being so open to try and experiment with new sounds and genres.
Anyone else feel like this episode was a personal attack on them as a DM? Haha! It's really hard coming up with captivating narrative on the fly, but it's a great goal to aim for.
I came across this at a perfect time. I'm running a high level game right now and I've realized I've got that MCU thing going on. The game was supposed to be more towards old school dungeon delve and domain play. I always love y'alls videos.
I love this- I think functionally if you want to try out stuff like this the idea of mechanical story control for players (as in flashback tokens or etc) were what I found easiest.
But I have run a game of Microscope to generate a campaign setting before- which was really fun
Had this idea for a campaign where something like two thirds of the party are "students" at an Academy for adventurers. For those who remember Final Fantasy VIII the Academy works just like the SeeD Gardens. Every few sessions the party looks at the notice board and picks a mission/adventure they want to spend the next few sessions on. Some are straight forward dungeon delves, and some are political power moves the headmaster wants done to shape the 500 miles of campaign world around the Academy.
Successful missions reward the party with gold. Outstanding individual performance, or choosing/winning missions that tie into your character's backstory, and the headmaster's mysterious goals can grant access to tutors of advanced techniques, spells, or feats beyond their normal class advancement. Or in some cases the player gets to walk into the Academy's magic item vault and walk out with one item.
The kicker is the players choose at first level if they are already a student or if they're an adventurer the students in the party meet in the middle of their first mission. The difference is simple. There is no variant human in the game but students start the game with all the benefits of variant human tacked onto whatever race they are. Non students start the game with a single +1 magic weapon of their choice that they got from their previous solo adventuring, and once they enroll in the Academy after joining the party they can audit classes until they "catch up" with the students. Everyone should get a magic weapon and the benefits of variant human by level 4.
That sounds awesome
I have shifted my style to allow for this more and even did a session 0 to try to get everybody on the same page. I’m allowing them to connect with the world however they see fit. The problem that arises is no one really has their own goals and if they do they’re in conflict with someone who does have a goal. I’ve tried to talk to them about it and they just don’t seem to want to spend time on figuring out those questions outside of the game. Since this air of vagueness and less goal oriented play has started, I’ve tried to get more into establishing a story for them to follow again. I feel like there are negative to both sides depending on who you players are.
It always come down to who your players are.
My first true player driven campaign I made was two years ago. I had my players make their backstory (some never really cared about it, but I urged them and sat down with a couple of them to create something they were happy with). I had the actual campaign, and the story and general direction I wanted that to take, and then I would intercede it with bits and scraps of the players' backstories. Eventually, that lead to all of these lines of story overlapping, and having an actual impact on the larger picture. The end result was that my players were exceedingly interested in not only their characters, but also the world around them. It felt more real and more interesting for everyone. They were HOOKED, and I loved it, and for the first time in my D&D career, when one of my player's PCs died, they really really cared, and they were beat up for weeks. It felt so rewarding as a DM to have my players get so interested and so invested in this thing we all made. Before, we had so much fun messing around in these campaigns just playing, but after that campaign, things had changed, and for all the better. I cannot recommend this style of play enough.
Plot points of the dmg is an awesome concept
My players give me the seeds of their character. The two of us walk through a rough, basic history with a couple cool details that gets the player invested in the character.
Then they let me run with it. I will write up a character background and send it to the character's history. By the time they are done reading, my backstory will have the player ready to see what happens next to the character. The player knows what is motivating the characters actions, and they have a destiny to unwrap.
One of my players was very hesitant to let me write the backstory, but once I was finished, he had changed his mind. Give me the time and a set of parameters to work within and a world will give me enough to come up with a compelling story almost every time.
Great Video as always! I would love to see a video on how to run a pre-written adventure, but make it feel more like an open campaign. For those of us that like to DM for friends but are quite short on available prep time.
I'd say: Read the adventure beforehand and be ready to improvise ☺
For sure. I think one of the hard parts for me has always how to let them wander off the rails. But then you ultimately need to bring it back around onto the rails. Unless you are prepared to go completely away from the module. Techniques for bringing it back around to kind of pick up where they left off and how to make that feel organic.
I set up my game with cornerstones; what are the key historic moments that shaped the land, who rules where, what is the general populace like in different areas, what are the current major events, what legends are present (humanoids and monsters alike), how do the dieties operate (passive/active).
Once that is all set up I look at what my players' long term and short term goals are, and pick out a single event or npc from their background that could influence those goals, or the goals of one of the other players, creating small plot-hooks for that.
Based on all that I come up with a fitting main story where all that fits in with and then improv everything else.
I used to write a main story and then try to come up with stuff that would fit into there, but it was way harder to change in a way that it felt organic and believable.
13th Age fills these shoes amazingly well with it's One Unique Thing mechanic, among other things.
Approximately 5:00 An event that happened in the background made me think back to the way the original Pirates of The Caribbean trilogy seemed to have a lot of events recur such as Jack being left to die on an island.
The Sword and Anthrax are a couple of my favorite bands, especially with songs like 'How Heavy This Axe' and 'Medusa'. Speaking of 'Used Future', the Screwattack music video has a bit of roleplaying videogame charm to it.
This video is simultaneously the one that gives me some of the best advice from y'all and the one I disagree with the most
All my campaigns are player driven campaigns. I even pick or create the world based on the players. I think it most often allows maximum fun for everyone. I enjoy making many worlds and styles so adapting to the players and their characters makes the most sense to me. I still add in things I want but only when it seems to gel with the players. If they want heavy combat I’m not going to force too much intrigue, mystery and non violence. I will however often leave non violent options so they are not JUST murder hobos all the time.... I also think the way you grant exp effects the attitude and I encourage some exp for solving problems without killing and also exp for puzzles, solving mysteries and playing the RP of their character well. I like to have a logically consistent living bra]eating world so it would exist without the characters, but also allow the characters to change and impact the world. If playing in a previously established world the time you play The campaign in, Can also be adjusted and making sure to link backstories to locations. Good points about using the backstories well! I disagree on the illusionist talks to me the great encounters should be ‘quantum’ I do a mix of three versions; 1) improved random stuff from tables 2) preplanned out encounters that can’t be moved due to logic 3) quantum encounters that will be in any town or any room (don’t let the players figure out you are doing this). I am a DM who establishes at the beginning of a campaign in session 0 if there will be fudging and adaptable encounters or set and brutal. I think it’s a campaign playstyle thing. I tend to always allow for adaptable encounters not for the dice but for the monsters HP, some powers, tactics, and if they flee or if backup arrives or not. Great video thanks!
This video came out at the perfect time. The next campaign that I'm working on is going to be more player-centric with an overarching event that slowly goes on in the background and affects the world as a whole.
He gets it so right at 16:10. It's not the encounter being available (randomly) it's putting it in front of the players in spite of their choice to avoid it!
Great episode! I certainly try to center things around my players, although I have certain world events happening whether they engage or not.
I am guilty of having fudged the dice before. Once I did as a new DM because I felt guilty for killing a PC, and I was about to down his new character. That one I feel I shouldn't have done. Another case where I did it was with a new D&D player. He had gone the whole campaign missing with his spells and not doing much damage. Then, he cast a 3rd level lightning bolt spell for the first time, so I failed the saving throw on purpose. It became a memorable moment for him, so that one I don't regret. I probably wouldn't do that again for these guys, but I still might consider it for a new player...maybe.
Another killer show. I both as a DM and a player do not mind at all the "Quantum Encounter". Why? Because as a DM I have put a lot of thought into designing fun challenging encounters that I (The DM is a player too) would like to see how my players deal with it. That is one of the most fun parts about being a DM. Being surprised by your clever players. As a DM, knowing what lies a head means you probably have a really good idea as to what will bring the most enjoyment to the session. And as a player I enjoy being challenged and will never know whether or not the encounter was, or was not a DM Quantum Encounter. As George Costanza once said, "It's not a lie...if you believe it"
Man, this video is about me as a DM. I thread this needle with my players from the get-go. We all made sure we were on the same page, we all wanted a RP-heavy game, really rich character developments. I wrote many graphic novels in my campaign world setting up a big war, and let them know in Session Zero, their characters are the heroes who will save the world. Our Feb-May campaign saw them become local heroes and step onto the regional stage. We’ve begun “the next episode” in June, and the PCs are beginning to meet the main characters of my novels, who are burnt-out on fighting...
This is only possible because we had a really clear approach: collaborative dramatic hero storytelling using dice to address risk/possibility. We definitely still got plenty of 5e combat slog, though it had me tearing out my hair, looking to Matt Colville, these fine gents, ProfessorDM, and others for ideas on speeding up combat. We’ve struck a good balance now, even though we can’t share a table anymore, we use Roll20 and Discord voice chat, and we all seem pretty happy w the setup.
The week-between is when i ask my players all the backstory/mcguffin questions for the upcoming session, since not all of us are as good at RP and improv as others. This helps the shy ones still feel like they are getting attention, and build collaborative narration, giving just enough hints to let them prepare for whats next.
I'm currently running a Shadowrun 5e campaign In which the players are revolutionaries, but starting at the stage of where its just them in a basement starting the whole thing. What they do is completely player driven, I've even gone to the extent that someone else is playing the government and I feed information to him after each session much of it just other events happening in the country and he makes government level decisions which effect the players plans. It was sort of an experiment into what I felt would be true player driven game and its taught me a lot. In particular;1)Given total freedom my player become overwhelmed with choice.2)Allow players to choice there targets involves a lot of "discussion" and they often over plan3)Generally the pace feels very slow because of a lack of direction.4)Preped Improv is key to keeping the game moving.5)The level of ruthlessness required to effectively start a revolution is absolutely terrifying.I would be interested to know if anyone else has tried something similar and what they found?
to answer your last question, no i have not attempted to start a revolution yet, i will give my government a few more years before i go that far. :P
on a more serious note however that seems like a really cool idea and definitely something i would like to try out one day, if i can find a group willing to play that.
Most of the players are very politically aware which is essential (by which I mean they are know a lot of political and world history) and those that weren't very quickly did some background reading.
I do not see how ruthlessness is required to start a revolution. Although we may disagree on whether or not killing tyrants and their jackboots is considered ruthless. Also I love having a third party control an element in campaigns.
As revolutionaries you want to mess with the Powers that Be, and in Shadowrun for sure the beings in power are ruthless. Even if you don't want to use lethal force in your revolution you bring fatal danger to yourself and everyone around you and helping you. So you have to be or become ruthless if you want to keep moving forward.
I can see players getting overwhelmed by choices in such a campaign, especially in Shadowrun. What the players need is something of a general plan and something of a timeline. Then they can attach individual actions and missions to that and progress.
That's usually what the npc questgivers, mr Johnsons and benefactors are for.. without it the players will flounder.
I feel like this approach needs a very specific/experienced group.
I've really never had a group that wanted any real choice. First session they stood on a boat and scratched their heads where the adventure is.
And I'm talking 5 year experienced players here with DM experience.
Not really feeling the need to give my players the reigns, they don't know what to do with them anyways.
Most players I know want a linear PC RPG like Baldur's Gate with some fluff "choices" (i.e. paragon or renegade, but still stop the BBEG)
about to start a new campaign, this is well timed and useful
If you have players that can accept character death and not bail out of the campaign, those players are DM GOLD. You can let the dice determine survival and make the story be the focus.
Let the players know that the world is harsh, let them see how the story can survive a players death and see how the new character can be integral to the story as well.
One campaign I ran had three players and they realized they needed another person to add resilience to the party. Having a character go down almost turned into a total party wipe several times.
So, they added a 4th character and through no fault of their own, the 4th character became a "Star Trek red shirt" who died when the main characters survived. It was as if the dice did not want them to survive. On their fourth "4th" the character became a focus of the party to "Keep her alive for a change" because, as a DM NPC I worked hard to find a character with a story that the party got attached to. After several months, the party had gelled completely and the four of them worked so well together that the party as a whole had been reinforced and could handle much more epic encounters.
Great vid guys.
Quantum Encounter is the best D&D phrase ive ever heard
So in my re-introduction to D&D in 5th Edition, I've been very lucky with the group I broke that ground with. One of the first missions with our DM, running the introductory campaign, our characters went WAY off script early. After an ambush by a groupe of goblins, our characters abandoned their pursuit of the and instead delivered a cart of goods to the next village as they were hired to do. Afterwards the party decided to investigate the goblins who attacked them and caught them somewhat with their pants down. Apparently, rather than forcing some kind of wacky encounter on us, he made it so "well, the goblins were expecting you much earlier, when you didn't show up they dropped their guard." That kind of thinking on one's feet always impressed me and has made for years of enjoyable games.
running a BDQ right now, but I was evil and tied the short term threats into backstories, the ranger's tribe was attacked, for example
also made sure to put lots of room in the timeline for them going off the rails
I Like Web DM because whether i agree or disagree with them on a topic I feel like they always have good reasons for why they play the way they do.
That little yellow dinosaur on the play mat is just great.
The dimetrodon is actually not a dinosaur but a synapsid.
Great video. Thanks
Were are those troll articulated figures on the background from?
Just started a BDQ type campaign in which the PCs, diplomats sent to negotiate with the king of a rival country, witness the King's merging with the King In Yellow from the Cthulhu Mythos. They're trying to make it across a hostile country, back to their home, and warn everyone of the threat approaching.
I'm giving the players freedom in how they go about getting home, but the threat gives a good sense of urgency and a reason to not fuck around for too long
I love your shows, but this one seemed to not hit the mark and fizzled out.
It seems like a big missed opportunity to discuss Player driven campaigns, and not discuss West Marches style.
Also, there really wasn't much discussed about how to manage a player driven champaign, when Player A wants to do X, and Player B wants to do Y ...
Anyways, I hope that this doesn't come off as too harsh ... It's just my point of view. Love your shows!
Talking about the over-written characters reminded me of two different characters. I had a friend at a game I didn't play at whose character was a general in an army that lead a failed revolution to try and overthrow the gnome king, which was why he was currently living like a nomad.
Another time, I'll never quite know why but it was everyone's favorite part of this campaign, a character was a runaway slave that burned his home to the ground and joined the clergy. I realized that he never mentioned the slave owners not being demons, so I made them demons and had them take over the city after he left. The whole city where he used to live had been killed while the corpses were effectively marionette dolls putting on a facade of normal life so no one would check it out
I like the term 'Quantum Encounter' for sure.
I come close to this sometimes. On occasion I will rubberband characters back toward a particular moment in the plot in order to facilitate an entire adventure. Like if the characters find a tablet that will lead them to the ancient ruins an adventure is built around, but they need the archaeologist Millbur to decipher the language and lead them to the ruins, then Millbur is going to be in whatever city and whatever tavern they travel to next because that is the multi-session adventure that I spent a month planning.
But for many other points that are not the 'set up' for an adventure, I find it helpful to include a note that details "What happens if the player characters dodge this event?"
Does the merchant hire a less capable band of adventurers, who flummox the entire quest and the villain gets a step ahead? Does the orphanage burn down because the necromancer they WOULD have discovered now succeeds unopposed in his evil plot to abduct the nun who runs the orphanage?
Knowing what happens if "nothing happens" is helpful in restraining the impulse to make a thing happen no matter what.
I must have missed the outro talking about The Sword when I first saw this video. Everything about them you guys said I agree with completely. Check out Spidergawd if you want to add in a level of sonic/psychedelia to that kind of music.
Has anyone else noticed that Jim and Pruitt's salt and pepper beard combo has switched since the dome episodes?
I've suggested different skill checks after rolling low and gotten the go-ahead, such as first investigation to look for footprints getting a 3 then suggesting survival for tracking skill; I still rolled bad on the second roll, but yeah sometimes valid suggestions can be made.
As much as I love Web DM, I equally love running off to listen to The Sword or Gloryhammer after the outro.
I recently had my party of level 3s fight a lone Ettin. I liked the roleplay opportunities of the Ettin, so I put it in my game, and my players thought the thing was hilarious.
I expected them to barrel through it, and they did. They got a surprise round on it, though, so they went through its hit points much faster than I expected.
They would’ve killed the thing before it had even had a turn, so I decided mid-combat that it had around 45 more hp, just enough that it would take my players 3 rounds to kill the thing, instead of two.
Did it make a huge difference? No. It my players got to interact with that ettin a little longer, which they enjoyed. They still totally wiped the floor with it.
Giving the Ettin effectively 1 more round pf HP gave it a turn in combat, which gave it some agency, which allowed it to express itself one more time. I think my players enjoyed that turn.
House Rule: When players finish an encounter in X rounds or fewer (to be playtested) roll a D20.
When the die falls on 5 or lower, a second wave ambushes the party and a new initiative is rolled.
Optional correlary: the new encounter's difficulty may be increased in relation to the previous encounter the closer to 1 the roll is.
Basically, if they smash an encounter with a large group of goblins in one round, there's a 75% chance they can just revel in it, and a 25% chance a second wave of enemies will show up. On a 5 it might be just one more goblin that was late to the human flaying party, on a 1 it could actually be the goblin chieftan with a group of lackies in tow.
As it is a house rule, it is something the players will be aware of as a possibility. Given the low threshold of it happening, it will also not deter them from fighting optimally just to avoid it happening, and when it does happen, there's a die roll as proof, and when they probably still win anyway because they're on their A game, they get to feel that much more proud. (Its probably against the spirit of the rule as written here, to continually roll for new encounters. One ambush second wave is probably enough. Twice maximum, and only if they _really_ stomp the fight twice in a row).
That bit that you said "this video isn't about that" wanted exactly that. That is literally what I wanted. Can I get that?
When you brought up time urgency after Big Damn Quest, I was completely on board, that is the number one problem that I struggle with when I find myself not enjoying D&D, and yet it is the most used trope in published campaigns to tie them together. To all the DMs out there, buy it for flavor, but run it like a series of adventures, pretend that you are stringing together a series of small adventures and making a series, if you try and force it, perfect example being the "death curse" its impossible to get that feeling of just being in the right place at the right time hero feel, because everyone knows that they are in a giant funnel. That's my 2 cents. Keep it up, WebDM, loving it.
I reread that and it sounded strange. Star Trek Next Generation was a series of small adventures that over time revealed story arcs that progressed and tied together, this is somewhat what I am attempting to convey. Oh well.
Hell yeah, the Sword! Warp Riders #1
Any word on the next Hex episode?
Closer to the end of the year, but we have one coming up a bit sooner that also relates.
Is that a patreon thing, what's a hex episode? Enlighten me! =)
@@radelc Look up Web DM What the Hex and you should be able to find it
@@WebDM Thank you very much for the reply. Looking forward to it!
Oh I didn't even pay attention to that "Part 1" on Hex Crawl Ep. Looking forward to it, we've been running a West Marches style hex crawl with a group of 8 depending on which guys and gals are available each week. Hardest part for us is trying to keep characters in similar locations for starting each session. I need to get better at managing bringing a session to close and getting them back to a town.
Checking out The Sword right now based on your recommendation.
The Sword! Yes you have good taste.
I will fudge for players to their benefit when I think it will improve the experience... as long as you make sure they don't realize it of course!
In reference to the "avengers" at 24:00. Sometimes when the PCs are walking to a location they will come across a few NPC adventures who look beaten up and will be told a story about a dungeon or monster thats near by that the NPCs failed to take on.
What I think of when I hear "player driven campaign" takes place when the players get to the point of familiarity with a campaign world and culture that they can do their own thing...instead of going down to the tavern to wait for a Quest Giver to come along and send them off on an adventure, they decide to rob the local castle's treasury, or form their own mercenary company and hire a bunch of mercs and join a war two countries over, or buy a ship and go off exploring the Great Western Ocean *of their own accord*, not because that's the campaign the DM has in mind.
I miss you guys. I miss Pruitt, but Jim was still plugging away last year...
Usually the only time I've allowed myself a fudge factor has been for a couple of brand new players where the focus was on making sure they enjoyed themselves. I was a newish gm and really hadn't bought into the one shot game.
It is the very random "OMG what just happened!" fzcot the dice can bring that can really make the game sing. My very fav bit was what ended up being a cursed sword "Lindur's Bane". It wasn't planned as a cursed sword. Wasn't even magical as I recall (granted, it's been 40 years). Every. Single. Character that used the sword in battle died within a game week. PC, NPC. Didn't matter. It was actually one of the pcs who had been carrying it around but not using it that got us all thinking about where he'd obtained it. We started working our way through all the previous owners and let's just say none of them died of old age in their beds. As the GM, I set them up with an opportunity to purchase/work for a remove curse. The Dice Gods had other plans. After the 3rd or 4th attempt to remove the curse, the group tried selling it. But by that time, it had been named and taken on a life of it's own, in the story arc. And the random rolls stopped them from selling it. Nearly caused 2 of the players to quit the game because it was getting seriously too freaky for them. I had been making all the rolls in public, so they all knew it wasn't ridged in any way. Or had the Bearer of the Bane roll. This was over about a 8-9 month campaign back when I was I college as a freshman and we'd play about an hour neay every night and from the last class Friday to the first class Monday. On a side note, it *may* have been a factor in flunking out later...but that's another tale for another time.
I appreciate the opportunity to tell this story. Haven't thought of Lindur's Bane in decades. Thanks for strolling down Memory lane with me for a bit!
I had an idea for a campaign that featured tiles, on each tile there is a different monster lair of some kind (kobold warren/orc stronghold/minotaur labyrinth etc.) over time new villains would be introduced to the setting and depending on how many losses the good guys have suffered, which monster lairs have been cleared the villain will be more or less difficult to combat and will appear in different forms, maybe you'll face a regular orc horde, unless you failed to destroy the demon worshippers in the tile near where the orc villain appears then it'll be a demon-orc horde. Good guys will turn evil and evil guys will turn good depending on if their loved ones die or if their best friend marries their crush or if you do a powerful speech. The good guys' army (not player controlled) will be whittled down depending on how much it is used and if the players don't do a good enough job taking out monsters that join the various villains and if they take out monsters that would actually stop various villains the good kingdom will fall, one of the players will have an opportunity to travel back in time. They think they know everything that's going to happen, but if they decide to uproot the demon cult early they might face an even worse enemy earlier on that the demon cult helped destroy.
So a neat thing I started doing some years back, after a long dming gap. I would have my players much like Jim Davis's wives approach to character building. Build characters with no background to start. My players would get a thumbnail about the world we would play our first game maybe 2 and then I would give them homework. No more than a page asking who is this at my table and then again why does your character have this fighting style and so on. Small questions that let me know is this paladins sword more than just a long sword to them or why does our wizard like to swing sword and staff versus damaging spells. Pathfinder had so many options that this continued dialogue acted like a whet stone for my players and me. Which let me add to my worlds depth. So my story would evolve while my players learned more about there characters.