Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
Why I REFUSED To Talk In Tongues: My Evangelical Upbringing | OTE Podcast
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 гру 2022
- Holly Laurent grew up in a religious family, and was expected to talk in tongues. Today, she is a performer, director, podcaster and comedian - and has a podcast about mega churches called MEGA (below). She’s a lot of fun, and she breaks down her own background of growing up evangelical.
Holy Laurent links:
www.hollylaure...
MEGA PODCAST - CHECK IT OUT: podcasts.apple...
vimeo.com/4953...
Andrew Gold links:
/ andrewgold1
/ andrewgold_ok
/ andrewgold_ok
#evangelism #atheism
What would you do if asked to talk in tongues?
Finnish will do i reckon. I*m fluent.
I've witnessed the tongues and I don't understand it. Looking forward to getting some insight into what speaking in tongues really is about. I remember reading a few different things in the Bible but never paid close attention.
I believe speaking in tongues is a witnessing gift, which is described in the beginning of Acts chapter 2.
I’ve been around people who engaged in the “tongues” that I would describe as like ecstatic utterances, and I thought it was distracting and less meaningful than normally spoken prayers.
I went to an Assembly of God school in 9th grade, and sometimes the weekly chapel services included this ecstatic jibberish.
I didn’t feel moved by the Lord to join them, so I just prayed quietly by myself.
I'd stick my tongue out because that is a childish thing to do and speaking in tongues reminds me of baby babbling, it's all so ridiculous and not dealing in truth/reality at all. I grew up in a very dangerous cult, had extreme mind control/programming, which has taken many years to dismantle. This cult stuff is so extremely dangerous. The extreme evangelicals are definitely cultic. Their beliefs and behaviours acted out from those beliefs, are Christo Fascist.
@@emilien. 😂😂
I miss being 💯 certain about life, and a god, and what rules I need to follow to get to “heaven”. Not knowing everything for “certain” is exhausting. I have to think critically, I have to have compassion for myself and AND others. I have to give people the benefit of the doubt. Life was so easy when I knew all of the answers.
Really great conversations in this interview. Thank you!
Well done for following your own critical thinking. The world is amazing despite magical thinking. More so I think. Human brains are wonderous. I had a sudden realisation when I admitted I didn't believe in 'god' in the traditional sense that prayer wasn't the same as action. Since then I've done much more active charity and volunteering because humans need humans to help then. Prayer is exactly the same as doing nothing. Hopefully you will also reach that conclusion and begin to act altruistically
@@malicemacey *I have had many of the same revelations that you have. Yes, we need prayer, as it is our direct communication with God, but we MUST do the work that is required of us if we are to truly serve God and that means that we MUST serve humanity as a whole!! It is NOT enough to throw money in the plate on Sundays!! We MUST love, comfort, feed, clothe and serve His people as He instructed us to do.*
*The church has also REMOVED the divine feminine of God and you cannot have the CHRIST consciousness without BOTH the divine feminine and the divine masculine. Imho*
*I was born with the gift of prophecy. I have had dreams, experiences and downloads since I was a small child. I have ALWAYS known that I had a higher purpose. I believe that this purpose is NOW!! So MUCH is now coming clear to me. Those of us who can see and understand what is currently happening in our world right now, have been here before. We have returned for this time and purpose to help God's people during this time. Remember who you are!!! We are divine beings and we have done this before. We need ONLY to remember who we REALLY are!!!*
*Sending MUCH love* 💕 *light* ✨ *prayers* 🙏 *and an abundance of beautiful🌹 blessings to you and all.* 💕 🙏💕🙏💕
You thought you knew all of the answers.
Look into Islam if u want certainty.
You will find the truth in holy bible my sister every thing you need to know is already written and prophesied
Raised Pentecostal. Scorned constantly for not using my “gift”. Discipline consisted of me picking a “switch” and then beaten with it. And then told I’m filled with the devil. This was my mom. Thank God my dad was not. He actually intervened when I was 14 and the beating had gone on for an hour. Usually started at my ankles and went slowly up my backside then back. The pain was unbearable. I had turned around and she was about to hit my face when my dad grabbed her arms. I think that was the last time she “punished” me. She then started the verbal attacks. I had an 8 year break but she back with the assault on my character. I’m done.
I could tell you done some wacky stories.
I am sick you had to endure what you did. You survived and did not turn into the sick person your mother was. You are a beautiful creation and deserve to be treated tbus. God bless you and I am glad you walk among us. No child should ever be abused in any way.
@@meladdison9315 oh that's sweet of you. Loads of therapy! She was only mirroring her upbringing, and the truth is, she is not well. I mostly feel sorry for her, now I know I can just walk away. There was a lot using the bible to abuse, but now I know it was wrong. There are so so many children abused in that religion and it's completely normalized. Hoping it was not in vain and looking to be a source of understanding to those who are trying to cope with the same issues.
My neighbors became Pentecostal about 5 years ago. They changed the way the dressed and they stopped celebrating Christmas Easter and all holidays. They don’t even celebrate their kids birthdays anymore. I feel bad for the little kids as the are not allowed to participate in any school holiday events . To each their own but what I feel weird about is that they really stopped socializing. I mean they hardly even say hello to us . Their whole lives revolve around their church. They do night vigils , super extreme fasting . I just feel something is not right here.
These people should be arrested for assault
@@victoriasoto7335 That sounds more like a cult with total control over people's lives, than the love of God.
As an ex-fundie raised in the charismatic evangelical church, this interview had me hooked right out of the gate!! So valuable for those of us who are in the midst of our own journey of ‘spiritual deconstruction’!!!
Thank you 😊
I would recommend looking into Humanism. We can find beauty, wonder, empathy, art etc. as atheists/agnostics by seeing the wonder of the universe as a product of science. Religion stunts curiosity because you think you already have the answers. When you reject that you open a world of wonder and curiosity
@@malicemacey Humanism seems pointless to me, ultimately, without an understanding of more than this tiny speck of life one is experiencing, whatever 'one' is... its really has nothing to offer imo
@@malicemacey Yeshua does not stunt curiosity. Religion and Yeshua are two separate things. It seems you never really knew Him.
@@christoffesedao3579 nothing like pure arrogance in the religious
For anyone interested, the best explanation I've heard about speaking in tongues was from Michael Heiser. According to him the speaking in tongues mentioned in the NT was the sudden ability to speak other foreign languages so as to communicate their gospel message with the many other nationalities they came into contact with. As for the gibberish version goes, apparently there are non Christian/ new age/pagan movements that practice this. I've witnessed this practice in church services and even for a believer it can be very uncomfortable to watch unfold. First time I'd heard of this was from the Alpha course, where they do a Holy Spirit service. Much of what evangelical churches seems to practice is NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) and according to some is actually blasphemous. Mike Winger is a good resource on the matter.
Good comment. :)
Acts 2:6b describes that tongues were actual languages
“ . . . a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.”
Peter, Dr Michael Heiser is amazing scholar/linguist. Glad that you mentioned him. I don't think many have heard of him. As he says, when we try to interrupt particular Bible content apart from knowing the Jewish history/their thinking of the time/correct application of their language, then we get it wrong. And as Holly said in this interview, most Christian are not literate concerning what they proclaim to believe and most don't even read their Bibles nor know how to study scriptures. Sitting in a church with walls, believing only what that preacher says on Sunday without studying for ourselves, is not healthy. No wonder podcasters never lack for material concerning Christians groups.
@@debbieklahn1263 thank you Debbie. Completely agree 👍 personally speaking, Heiser's work was a Godsend. I was burnt out by church and fairly jaded for similar reasons mentioned in this podcast. Sadly this is a familiar and many don't recover.
@@mrsphilm.007 thank you for your reply, much appreciated 👍
*_"the speaking in tongues mentioned in the NT was the sudden ability to speak other foreign languages so as to communicate their gospel message with the many other nationalities they came into contact with."_*
Yes, but this reversing of the Tower of Babel effect is as likely to be actual fact as *OMMO KATOONA MAKUTA KATATA!* actually meaning something.
And when did YHWH decide he'd made a mistake in confusing the languages?
{:o:O:}
When I was 17 a friend took me to a Pentecostal Church - lots of glossolalia. I took another friend once (last time) and after the service they wanted to lay on hands and pray over us. My friend started speaking in tongues and I thought "omg what do I do?" so I faked it. After we left, I asked her if she really spoke in tongues and she just said "god no! I just wanted to get out of there."
The faking you did is even dumber.
As an ex satanist I'm sitting here reading The Bible for the first time. The Orthodox Study Bible. I am loving it so much. The dots I'm connecting are blowing my mind...I could go on! This is not the church I was led to believe all my life. It's supernatural and beautiful and very very wise and in my estimation and research-true!☦
@rigavitch paradine
Yes! 🙏
Have you gotten to the part where god kills Lots wife for looking back at Saddam and Gomorrah and then tells Lot he can marry his own daughter to replace her? And because Eve wanted knowledge, all women forever are punished for it, plus lots of stuff in the NT. Women aren't to speak or teach in church and they must obey their husbands because the husband is between them and god in the spiritual hierarchy. Women are god's favorite scapegoat throughout the whole book. And yeah, I've read it all.
@@dreamingrightnow1174 Oh yes! And I've gotten some fantastic insights into things people have an issue with from some incredible minds who understand the historical context etc. I am humbled! I used to think I was so so very clever...
Tell more ?
I went to a cult meeting with my sister-in-law and after praying, the leader asked if anyone could speak in tongues. The living room was full of 20 some yr. olds. After some silence, a girl got up and spoke in tongues, then she interpreted it for us. Four more people spoke. I am a Spanish/English interpreter so I asked the leader why they had to translate to each other. Shouldn't all the people who spoke in tongues understand the other? I was told God spoke to everyone differently. I thought it was peer pressure and honestly, a bunch of crap.
If God speaks to people, why in a language no one will understand? Makes no sense.
@@lindasnyder1729 when people speak in tongues it’s always with the sounds of their language. They never speak it with vowel sounds that don’t occur in their native language.
Pentecostalism I think has to do with “the experience of the Holy Spirit”, as well as something to do with the body.
Acts 2 describes the disciples speaking in tongues, in case any one is interested.
People who speak in tongues never use sounds that are inconsistent with their native language. That’s so interesting to me and proves that’s it’s invented. I learned that when I was reading about possession.
@@pamelaboswell9715 Personally, I never seen anyone speak in Tongues the way it’s described in Acts 2
Acts 2:6b, tongues were actual languages
“ . . . a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.”
@mrsphilm.5090 Exactly right
No, actually it does not.
When it’s boiled down, most arguments for tongues at Pentecost can ultimately be said to hinge on two things; first, what the Holy Spirit actually gave the 12 apostles at Pentecost, and second, the crowd’s assumed linguistic diversity. Indeed, once can easily argue that the former completely hinges on the latter.
If one carefully examines what the Greek text says the Holy Spirit gave the 12 apostles (yes, just 12; not 120, but that’s a story for another day) on Pentecost, and put the narrative into historical, cultural and linguistic perspective, one is compelled to conclude a very different view on the concept of “tongues” at Pentecost and, more so as “initial evidence” of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. One is also forced to rethink the actual languages and role they played in the event.
At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit gave the 12 apostles what in the Greek text is “apophtheggesthai” - usually translated as “to give utterance”. This is not, however, the most accurate translation of this Greek word, but it’s the one that has come to be the more or less ‘de facto’ rendering.
This word is from “apophtheggomai” which is best translated as “to give bold, authoritative, inspired speech to” (don’t go to Strong’s and look it up - “Strong’s” is a _concordance_ , not a lexicon; there’s a _huge_ difference).
It refers *not* to the content/means of the speech (i.e., the language used), but rather to the *manner* of speaking. In each instance where this word occurs in scripture, the person's speech is bold, authoritative, and inspired and it is always, by the way, in the speaker’s native language.
In short, the Holy Spirit did not give the _language_ (i.e. the means/content), it gave the _manner_ in which it was spoken.
So why is it usually translated as “to give utterance”? That hinges completely on the next part…
The Jews present at Pentecost, as we are told, came from three areas: Judea, the Western Diaspora and the Eastern Diaspora. “All nations under heaven” is an idiomatic expression - Acts II: 9-11 tells us where those visiting were from.
Jews from Judea spoke Aramaic as their mother tongue. I don’t think there’s any argument there. Jews from the Western Diaspora spoke Greek - all those lands had been Hellenized for centuries and Greek had long displaced indigenous languages. Eastern Diaspora was different - no Hellenization and countries had their own languages. Though people in Jewish communities in these lands spoke the local languages in varying degrees of fluency, it was never their ‘mother tongue’. For Jews in the Eastern Diaspora, the language of ‘hearth and home’, the language “wherein they were born” was Aramaic. This language was one of the things that set them apart as being Jewish; it gave them their cultural and religious identity.
Many lands, many places and people, but only two languages; Aramaic and Greek; and of course, the apostles spoke both.
Something to think about - In the entire Pentecost narrative, not one language is ever referenced by name. Why do you suppose that is?
When Peter stood up and addressed the crowd, what language do you suppose he addressed them in??
The “list of nations”, as it’s called, of Acts 2: 9-11 is simply that - a list of countries, lands and nations that tell us where these people were from; *not* what language(s) they spoke, as most people assume. Further, the idea that the “tongues” of Acts II was xenoglossy also stems from this false assumption.
The miracle of language at Pentecost was making the God of the Jews accessible to all people and moreover, not having to do so in one prescribed language; namely, Hebrew, the sacerdotal language of Judaism.
Jewish religious custom and tradition demanded that any teaching, praying, reading, prophesying, etc. done from the temple (where the apostles were) be rendered _first_ in Hebrew, then followed by a translation into the vernacular. There even existed an ecclesiastical office for the individuals who did these translations (called the ‘mertugem’). On Pentecost, the apostles broke this tradition and “began to speak in ‘other’ (i.e. _other_ than Hebrew) languages (Aramaic and Greek), as the Holy Spirit kept giving a bold, authoritative, inspired manner of speaking to them.
The apostles, by help and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, did away with this cultural and religious tradition, and addressed the crowd in Greek and Aramaic; the mother tongue of the attendees, instead of the culturally and religiously correct, and expected tradition of Hebrew first, then translations into the vernaculars. Doing this from the Temple where they were, broke a slew of cultural and religious taboos. The shock to the crowd was that they did not first hear the expected and culturally correct Hebrew first, then vernaculars. May sound a bit silly nowadays, but at the time, to do such a thing was unthinkable. Further added to the crowd’s reaction was to hear Galileans (the “country bumkins” of their day) speak so boldly, completely inspired, and with such authority.
To suggest, as the apostles did that the God of the Jews was now available to non-Jews and in any language, completely dispensing with Hebrew altogether was tantamount to heresy; hence also part of the crowd's reaction (i.e., they must be drunk to dare to do such a thing). Sounds a bit ridiculous in today’s times perhaps, but there was a time when many religions had specific sacred languages ‘attached/associated’ with them, and it was heresy to veer from their usage in the prescribed manner.
With regards to the concept of “initial evidence of tongues”, according to the Pentecost narrative, there were around 3,000 people who were baptized that day. If these 3,000 were 'baptized in the Spirit', I would think that at the very least, according to some Pentecostal/Charismatic beliefs, they should have starting “speaking in tongues”. Yet *nothing* of the sort is recorded. Certainly 3,000+ people “speaking in tongues" would at least merit a sentence or two in the narrative, wouldn’t it?
If one argues they were not baptized in the spirit, but only in water, not only would the apostles have been violating a slew of work prohibitions on a high holy day (and would not likely have been allowed to do such a thing), considering one of the main focuses of the day was about being baptized in/receiving the Holy Spirit, that would be a rather anti-climactic ending to the narrative, wouldn’t it?
No xenoglossy, no modern tongues-speech, just real, rational language(s). There was a language miracle at Pentecost provided by the Holy Spirit, no argument there; just not the one most people assume. And of course, again, when the apostles received the Holy Spirit, the only tongues (read ‘languages’) spoken were their own. In short, the gift of languages was not evidenced on Pentecost - it didn’t need to be. I would argue that, if looking for a gift of the Holy Spirit to assign to Pentecost, it would be more the gift of Prophesy than of Languages.
This more correct historical, cultural and linguistic view negates that awkward discrepancy between the real, rational languages of Pentecost and the so-called “prayer language “ of Paul’s letter to the Corinthians that tongues-speakers have skated around and explained away by instituting various “types” of “tongues”. There is only one type of “tongues” in the Bible - real rational language(s).
@@kavikv.d.hexenholtz3474Interesting! Thanks for adding to the discussion!
I really can't say without a better introduction to it. I went to Catholic school through 8th grade and I've always had an interest in all religions. Unfortunately, a friendship was ended by an Evangelical friend and coworker when I innocently asked how he knew what he getting/saying came from God. That was the beginning and end of learning about speaking in tongues.
ah that is a shame. hope you enjoy this one though!
@@AndrewGold1 I look forward to it! Thanks ...
Thankyou guys!!❤❤perfect! Just starting
@Mary Allison You see the arrogance in that statement, don't you?
So, to me, a voice can come from God. Not like an audible voice. But, if it's not coming from God, then it's coming from "Not God". I have said this to more than one person when they've informed me that God spoke to them. I have some interesting stories having to do with speaking in tongues.
I'm a Christian..I am not a Christian just so I can get to heaven. This is NOT what an evangelical Christian is at all. I follow Christ.
Gosh, I'm only now into the first part of this and Im dying. ;)))))
Andrew I commented a few weeks ago when you had Aaron on how similar my Pentecost upbringing was to Scientology, and how difficult it was to break free. What a sh#t storm of self righteousness responses hit the board. Sooo happy to listen to your fabulous guest. Thank you so much.
Absolutely right. And thank you so much cronesbrew!
I watched my mom do that when I was like 13 and it scared the living crap out of me and essentially soured me on religion in general for decades. And we weren't even in a tent, it was a brick and mortar building. I guess it was balanced out by the "Reverend" having a cute daughter, which ended up being my first kiss.
wow what an image, thank you! and the 2nd image too haha but mainly the first one, religion is insane!
My belief comes from a spirtual active personal relationship with Christ not any church. Christ came into me through a dream at 12 yrs old and I remember it to this day.
I was raised as an evangelical, and I am deeply, deeply appreciative of Holly's description of the remorse and revulsion about teaching children such f'd up things. I was a Christian camp counselor for years, and I have so much regret about my part in teaching little kids that they inherently deserved to be burned forever in a lake of fire except for a human sacrifice. I have never heard someone articulate my anger and thoughts about the toxic mess that is the beliefs taught by American evangelical Christianity.
That's not just in America, I lived in 2 European countries and it's the same crap everywhere.
Remember, at least in the US, the evangelical movement is really a political movement as a backlash to the civil rights movement. Principally to end the womens movement and maintain patriarchy. These men manipulating the church doctrine are doing it to maintain their social privilege, control women and raise voters for their social-political agenda. It’s actually bullshit.
Especially to end the idea of womens’ freedom had the brilliant, diabolical idea to raise women who didn’t want to be free and would willingly submit to and support male authority. It’s part of the psychological damage of religion. Show me a woman who self hates in this way and I’ll show you a woman subjected to patriarchal religious programming.
My problem with Christianity is this idea that God made me how I am, yet I’m inherently bent towards sin because of what 2 people I never met did, and I have to spend my life fighting that, lest I go to hell. So I’m being punished for Eve? But I also have free will…but my choices should be what God wants. Yet he’s omnipotent and is in control of everything. None of it makes sense. Too many contradictions.
So much this!!!
I’m a person of faith and I love your podcast, Andrew. It’s so refreshing to hear opinions and life experiences of all sorts. This doesn’t happen enough any more. I feel it’s so important for us to allow our thoughts and beliefs to be challenged in order to expand and grow. Keep it up!
Agreed! Eastern Orthodox lady here, but I enjoy all the various guests and their different viewpoints.
Andrew, another REALLY good session. You are knocking it out of the park this week. Isn't it fun to think:) THANK YOU.
My pleasure Lauren!
*OMGOSH!!! I related so MUCH to this!!! I was raised Evangelical, but attended a Pentecostal church many times with friends. Speaking in tongue scared the daylights out of me!! As an adult, I attended a non-denominational church with my children and eventually attended a Pentecostal church at the choice of my wasband, because he refused to attend my church.*
*The Pentecostal church claimed that if you were not able to speak in tongue that you had a demon inside of you. I NEVER believed this and STILL I do NOT believe that to be true.*
*I NO longer attend a church, because of ALL of the MIXED messages that I received. I have a personal relationship with Mother/Father God and understand things MUCH differently!!!*
*From my own RESEARCH and inner intuition, I feel that the Bible has been edited to deceive humanity. We only have 66 books of 777, and the MOST important books have been kept from humanity and it is my feeling that this was done on purpose to help to lead us astray!!*
*I now listen to my heart* ❤ *and allow my "God given" intuition to direct and guide me. I have learned so MUCH more in doing this, than I EVER did attending church and constantly being told that I am a sinner and I am not good enough.*
*I am good enough, because I have God inside of me!!! I am a divine being and God does NOT make junk!! I will NOT let a church or ANYONE else take my God given divinity from me!!! I am made in the image of my creator, therefore, I will NOT let someone who serves the darkness convince me that I am not of the LIGHT!!!*
My grandmother was the most grateful person I’ve known. She was an amazing woman who loved God and expressed her love and thankfulness for Him in a gentle, kind, and beautiful way that I’ve not seen in anyone else.
The few times I attended church as a child was in the charismatic sect. It’s confounding that a sect of a belief/religion can be established and successful that teaches the opposite of that belief/religion. They, i.e. the charismatic sect, share the same reference (the Holy Bible) yet teach contrary to its contents.
I’m thankful for scholarly teachers like Mike Heiser, John MacArthur, John Piper and Chris Rosebrough.
Difference between accepting a science textbook on "faith" and a holy book on "faith is this: Somewhere along the line, the guy who wrote the science book based it on someone who acquired the information through experiment/objective observation. It is a matter of credibility of the original source of information.
There was so much that was covered in this interview I actually listened twice. I normally don't go near commenting on conversations about religion. Have to say I really enjoyed listening to the two of you together - good job Andrew!
My take away then is because all religions are man made - and with an agenda. Then faith, not facts is what makes people certain of their direction in life.
Aw thank you Elizabeth !
What a disappointment of an interview (up to a certain extent)
While I disagree with a good amount of what Christianity says, the disrespectful way with which the interviewee (and the interviewer as well, although not as much) deals with Christian matters is quite a turn-off.
It’s one thing to talk about a controversial matter while showing wisdom and trying to shed light on traumatic aspects. It’s another to make fun and generalize (even if in a subtle way) an entire religious demographic and unexplainable phenomena.
My Dad was an evangelical pastor and the speaking in tongues thing was clearly coerced. The whole atmosphere was just so over-the-top fanatical at 16 years old I was literally choking on the Bible as I couldn't have normal conversations with him. And ultimately it broke me. If a person wasn't manifesting wealth it had to do with your relationship with God, or you were praying wrong or you weren't tithing. Just real honest to god cult 💩.
I grew up very similar to you and I ended up leaving the church at 18, in the process, I lost all of my friends and most of my family. They would happily interact with me if I came to church but if I ran into them in public, they'd turn their backs on me. It was so hard to leave because I had absolutely zero support. I ended up living in a women's shelter for almost a year so I could get on my feet. I had been given a ton of responsibility as a kid, yet never taught how to be an adult and make it on my own. Luckily, I made it through college and became a responsible adult.... it just took a little longer than most people, graduating at 25.
I'm now, 53 and an agnostic. The only relationships I maintained was with my great grandmother and my sisters. I tried with my parents, but it was simply too stressful hearing them preach to me and tell me how much they were praying for me, and it just made me angry.... I know why they said those things, to try to make me feel guilty by telling me how worried they were that I was going to hell. But see, I don't believe in hell, so it just irritated me to the point that I just ended the relationship. It's a much healthier way to live.
@@Kymberlee_W ❤
That wealth thing goes all the way back to the Puritan pilgrims that came to America hundreds of years ago. People worked hard to be wealthy so the neighbors would think God favored them. That was the beginning of the Protestant Work Ethic in North America. It’s deeply entrained in our society, unfortunately!
Hey Andrew, I grew up in an evangelical church and went to a school attached to same church when I was a kid. They even hosted an anti LGBTQ event during school hours. This is an interesting topic you've hit here. Would love to see more of it.
Thanks JoJo, glad you’re away from that. And I’ll touch on it more !
My most intense sleep paralysis episode was waking up with my head turned to one side and hearing a demon whispering in my exposed ear. I was unable to turn and look (paralyzed) and unable to say anything. The paralysis finally broke and my head whipped around forcefully. My very large black cat was laying right up against my head. The shock of turning my head so quickly made him jump and "merow?". I let out a scream and then laughed my a$$ Off.
When she talks about abortion in the Tenakh, I have to adamantly disagree and refute her statement that HaShem condones abortion. This is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!
In fact, HaShem is very angry that people we’re sacrificing their children to Molech, a man made god.
Yes, this woman twists scripture.
This sounds so familiar like my teenage years in church thinking I was crazy because I didn't want to speak in tongues
Amazing chat, really enjoying your channel Andrew 😀
I wouldn’t talk tongues if asked to. It’s not a show, it’s a gift of God.
This is why I'm excited for this interview. I remember reading about speaking in tongues in the Bible, I've been to various churches where it's predominant and then churches where if speaking in tongues is brought up the looks one can receive...
I have no belief in God but I was good at it. A kid can be forced into so much fuckery.
@@charisma-hornum-fries Getting people in the formative years and inculcating them seems to be the key.
I am a new born believer in water and spirit. Sad to hear of so many unbiblical doctrines and myths about Christianity. And yes I speak in tongues and yes to unbelievers it sounds like gibberish but I do not care since it's effects are amazing. Miracles happen. I change in a very positive way. I am definitely against prizing and pressuring or trying to persuade anyone into Christianity or talking in tongues Especially not with kids. Also yes we have to share the gospel aka the good news that's it. We are sawing the seeds and the rest is done by god himself. So I am very sorry for anybody who had to experience anything else. I think it's very misrepresented from this women who clearly never experienced god or his real followers. So many wolfs in sheep clothing out there. I am so a blessed to be a child of god. Protected, healed physically and mentally and loved. I am thankful to god for my brothers and sisters in Christ. I know they talk about us as being in a sect but really you have to look at the result of it. Does it hurt me. No quite the opposite. As a former successful stripper living the worldy life chasing the money and bound to my addiction. My life has become sane, calm and peaceful.
Around the 23:00 mark, Ms. Laurent talks about her perspective vs. her father's perspective: ie: where she sees addiction and abuse, her father sees "a powerful stronghold of Satan." This is exactly the tension in the movie "The Exorcist". I learned that this was the interpretation that the director of the movie took to the story about demonic possession. There are many, many clues in the movie that what is really happening is trauma from sexual abuse. The babysitter leaves the child alone for a short while with the creepy stranger to go on an errand. When the mother learns of this, she is horrified. From this, all types of calamaties flow including the hyper-sexualization of the victim, the rage, the "coma", the self-mutilation.....all real symptoms and behaviors of child victims of sexual abuse. This was a deliberate goal of the director and there are lots of clues once you realize what you are seeing.
Yahweh detests any form of human sacrifice - this is a pagan practice punishable by death. I don't know what Exodus book your guest referring to. Man is made in Yahwehs image.
Agree. I was taken aback by the comments that God is an abortionist and killed his own son. The devil is a liar and so are those statements.
I was raised in an extremely fanatical "born again" Christian household. I removed myself from this 50 years ago. Though much older than Holly now, her experience and process of "unlearning" was very similar to mine. Finding ways to have "limited" relationships with family relatives who are still entrenched in the Evangelical Christian world can be a life long journey for sure. Loved your conversation. Thanks for sharing Holly.
thanks paula!
Everything she said, I felt the same way! I remember one time they were praying over me to speak in tongues and I couldn't! I started praying and I was begging God for him to give me the gift of tongues the elder told me to stop begging because, God hates beggars! The same day they prayed over me so I would get the gift of slaying in the spirit! I had heels on without the backs they tried to push me and push me but I would not fall down! I wasn't feeling it! I'm not going to fake something I don't feel or do something I don't feel comfortable doing! There were people... all you had to do was blow on them and they're out like a light! Something always seemed off not real I was not going to comply! I remember the church mentioned something about me wearing nail polish! I said, to one of the elders, I love nail polish! She took my hand looked at my nails and said, in God's Time! WTF! TILL TODAY 30 YEARS LATER I STILL FEEL THE ANXIETY! AND SO MUCH FEAR WAS BUILT INTO ME! FIRE AND BRIMSTONE YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!!! LOOKING BACK IT WAS JUST HORRIFIC! ✌🏻✌🏻
So sorry to hear that. They will get gods judgement for this mistake
Wow this was a brilliant video and Holly what a amazing interesting person I really enjoyed listening to her, so intelligent & articulate. Well done to the both of you this was a great conversation 💗
I have been asked to speak in tongues, (I'm not at all religious) I've been in every type of church in town, and asked not to return to all of them lol. They literally have a fake it till you make it motto. You hit the nail on the head Andrew, you feel social pressure to please people, reward systems are in place for playing along. Eventually it becomes easier and easier and then... Normal... It's a bit of self hypnosis, I believe it's literally like chanting. Anyway. I played a long, recorded myself, Then explained my whole idea above. They had a "translator" tell me and the people what was said (it was nothing memorable.... At least I can't remember it lol), I recorded their translation. Then played what I said to the other translator, they had a different translation. Everyone gathered around me to welcome me at the next meetup, I talked about my experience, (they asked) showed them my translations and how they were completely different (yet said basically nothing) it didn't phase these people at all. But they asked me to only come and have 1 on 1 meetings.. my job was done lol I never returned.
So grateful I happened upon this Podcast. I can relate to Holly's perspective. Thank you Holly and Andrew.
Such a fascinating and intelligent conversation. So happy to have discovered this channel...and grateful 😁
Thanks Libby!
Excellent session ….listening to Holly triggered the trauma I endured as a child of a fanatical Pentecostal parents/pastors. Now 52yrs old and most conversations with my mom are awkward…I’m on planet reality but she’s on planet supernatural “satan’s stronghold on everything” 🙄🙄🙄
Sad and pathetic way to live your life!
Check out Justin Peters Ministries 'WHY ARE CHARISMATICS SO WEIRD?" AMY SEMPLE MCPHERSON. READ 1ST CORINTHIANS CHAPTER 14 ❗❗❗❗❗❗ TO HER🩹🩹💞
Epic conversation. Very enjoyable It's like they are in my mind, lol. Im intrigued by the 'we are robots' concept; that'll be a good one to ponder and discuss. I enjoy these type of conversations that focus on enrichment, honesty, neutrality and leave you, hopefully, with new knowledge and morsels to ponder without, consciously or not, utilizing it as a vehicle with which to sway the other to their core beliefs and/ or thought process.
is there a part 2? seemed to end suddenly 😐 I can really relate to what she said about the difficulty when your family remains very religious, it does create a distance and i agree Ive never tried to take my parents faith away from them, only answered questions about my doubts as 'un-confrontationally' as possible. Maybe its because I view religious beliefs as deeply personal and everybody has the right to decide for themselves. Saying that, Hitchens/Dawkins etc make me think maybe we should be as vocal about our 'truths' as they are about theirs 😬Great interview tho, enjoyed it!
Nope sorry if it ended suddenly !! Can’t remember how it ends !
After being in 2 cults atheism is my safe place.
I was able to escape from fundamentalism, I was also an evangelical who became "charismatic" -- but I couldn't see how I could be anything other than a hypocrite so long as I didn't follow Jesus' instructions in Luke 14: _If any one wants to be my disciple hey must walk away from all his possessions_
It was a long road, but I escaped the mind lock of belief after that. Who cares what a monkey believes about God and so on? How could any of us have the right belief, if we don't even know what to think?
Anyway I am very happy to hear the blood trauma - ritual mind control program being called out!!!! Seriously Christianity is an insane cult that us terrible for people's mental health and self-esteem. By design! Broken sinners are easily controlled and that is the _entire Christian game_
Many thanks to both of you!
Andrew, I think what you are doing is great, keep them coming, thank you..👍
Thanks !!
Holly - you did very well with your grandmother!💗 I have worked in a Alzheimer facility and that was the best thing you could have done for her. The Alternative would not have been good.
Thank you so much!
Loved her immediately ❤
Andrew, I really loved this podcast. It honestly made me think about so many things that both of you talked about that I had never truly considered before. I am an ex-Catholic, I suppose Athiest but not a craw thumper, but just on a human level, all these questions and none of the answers. It was really amazing just to listen to and to think about and I will continue to think about it for some time for sure. Thanks to both of you so very much, 💕
thanks dearbhla, always love hearing from ya!
@@AndrewGold1 Ditto 🙂
This may be my favorite of your interviews so far!
Interesting conversation , thanks ! If people sat in silence and had a heart felt talk with God they might be surprised ! People love to run on treadmills with what group think says . Why not just ask God to reveal God to YOU ! ! We are not flesh robots , we are precious children and babies are God's magnificent gift of LIFE ! The spark of life created at conception cannot be duplicated by man . Precious be those who have great reverence for God and Life ! Pray for those who believe we are autonotoms , we are so much more ! God Bless YOU ALL !
I Am So saddened by this video, I'm not sure who this woman is and I am only 5 minutes in...But although she is speaking from her own viewpoint of course? Her objection" to all things " pentecostal or charismatic" etc displayed by Christians would suggest unresolved hurts, bad experiences etc?
However, the sad thing is...If she really knew the, grace and mercy filled love and forgiveness that comes from Knowing Jesus Christ...: She would be able to forgive, be healed, and realise she may not be accurately describing All spiritual gifting in God's church? ( There Is a place for spiritual gifts...tongues is one of them, although even Christians argue on specifics etc it Is still Biblical)
Already, I get the impression from her comments and " mock tongue speaking" that she is showing her bias and ignorance ? I will continue to watch obviously but If this is " anti christian"... Please have another person on your channel to share the other side? This whole " Tongues" is controversial even in the Body of Christ...But we shouldn't let it discount more serious topics and " throw the baby out with the bathwater" ...especially the Good News of The Gospel ?
In my own journey these past 36 years with Jesus, I have had experience with both " camps".. It is not just " cut and dried"... There is good and bad, abuses and fakes...but also genuine Truth and gifting, deliverence and Testimony? ❤️..
Footnote; Andrew I am a bible believing Jesus loving Christian who loves your channel and supports you...( I don't just believe " gobbledygook"... LOL 😂)
However, now I'm 9 minutes in ...abortion in the Bible?????
She has rejected Jesus and God...she is talking from a position of " darkness" now..( Here comes the haters ..)
BUT it's TRUE...she's rejected Jesus and Is therefore an enemy to All Things In His Light and Truth?... She is now speaking for the opposition to the Bible??
Therefore, It won't be THE TRUTH? Just her opinion at best and an instrument of Satan at worst?
Thankfully As with All of us " screwed up individuals" there Is still Love and Grace waiting for her to have a True relationship with God, Like He offers for all freely? I know far too well He doesn't give up on Us even when we give up on Him...I send my love and prayers to her ( And if course ..you ✝️💗
I find it odd that if an individual thinks he is being attacked by demons, he will be placed on psych meds but if a group of people in a "religion" believe demons are attacking them, they will get tax exemption.
I am an Evangelical Christian, attend mostly Baptist Churches and I don't police your behavior!!! I tell you about Christ because He did die for us as we are all sinflul and fall short of the grace of GOD!!! But it is up to you to accept Christ in your heart not me! I cannot force you. And I was never comfortable with speaking in tongues. I attend some Pentacostal Churches and that always makes me feel uncomfortable. However, would you prefer if Satan's followers come to witness to you? Evangelical Christians believe in having a direct relationship with Jesus Christ. We believe that we have to accept Jesus Christ in our hearts and follow Him to get to Heaven. And it is a relationship. And lady, you don't even know the definition of the Pentacostal denomination. You don't know much do you? But you do mock our beliefs. Keep it to yourself. Yes. I have read the Bible. And Archaeologists have found and continue to find that events in the Bible did occur. Follow or don't follow whoever you want--- ultimately it is YOUR SOUL.
🤦🏻♂️ *mmmgh* Not all Pentecostals are Charismatic, and just because your a Charismatic doesn’t mean you’re a Pentecostal. People, within, and without the Church tend to convolute the two. It’s understandable, but there is a distinction. I did not understand this until much latter in life, and having been down charismatic roads. In my walk, as I’ve studied scriptures, and saw the doctrinal distinctions I realized the two are sort of related, but not necessarily the same.
I was brought up atheist and then gave myself to the only evangelical baptist church in jersey Channel Islands uk for the last 5-6yrs. now as much as I loved the ritual and teachings which I absolutely 100% believed in and read all of “God’s” word, for the last year I have been questioning everything , researching and I don’t know what to believe now, it has left me in a bit of a battle in my mind, my soul, my everything and it is terrifying. I have lost my “church family “, I have lost my sense of what is real and what is not, I have lost my capability to trust anything anyone says due to my own weakening so to speak and in one way it is freedom but in another way I feel so scared, lonely and even made to feel that I am wrong that I am crazy and inferior because the evangelical teachings as well as my “family “ teaching says that not all people of faith are so called chosen by god and no one will ever know until the day you die but on the other hand god will save and forgive you if you proclaim your faith and love for him even on your deathbed which has left me feeling absolutely crazy and intact guilty due to this teachings and I am struggling mentally with it all, I am now in such a spiral of depression because I am questioning “god’s word” and how DARE I, my so called church family would say including my pastor, and therefore I am now questioning my own worthlessness of gods love and I must not be one of the “blessed chosen people of god” so what is the point in carrying on?! I truly need help with this because it has left me in a such an uncomfortable emotional state because of my questioning of this doctrine and I have been left to feel and think I am the problem not god. Please can you help me see the truth because I don’t know what is real anymore and it is terrifying
Hi, I can relate to your position as someone waking up during lockdown. Firstly, asking honest questions cannot be wrong! Secondly, any "family" whose love be so highly conditional, knowing the emotional distress you are in, simply isn't worth that name honestly. The tactic they are using as a group is to put all this on you the individual, citing select scripture no doubt or fobing you off with personal prayer (or you allude to them citing "being chosen" or not). If we saw schoolkids doing this we as adults could see immediately this is more like bullying than seeking to be helpful.
You have every right to be distressed both internally and by how your being treated. Your local GP or nurse would want you to tell them about this stress, assure you it's highly understandable, and be able to help with this key aspect: I know because doing that helped me from injuring myself.
In terms of looking for answers to "spiritual" issues, I found some UA-cam channels like "Mythvision" helpful. Derek was an Evangelical and he interviews folks who have studies the Bible's origins, archaeology etc. Now that might sound "dry" but Derek helps make it understandable and even at times fun.
The "penny drop" video for me on that channel was "Meet the real god of the bible: Francesca Stavrakopolou" where this author shows how Israelite religion changed massively over the centuries. The version we know: God the one true God was much later - earlier he had a goodness wife and god children! I cried when I realised that, but ultimately it helped me untangle the idea of the Old Testament "god" being "true" - which one??? I got the book on Amazon and that gave lots of information and cemented the facts in my head.
The experts also show folks editing the Old Testament often had 2 different versions of the same story, and would just squash them together: 2 creation versions, 2 noah flood versions (one with 2 animals each, the other with 7, and different number of days rain).....
I started small, and it took me a while to build up to hearing one of these ppl out, like peering through nearly closed eyes until I felt it was safe. And hey, if the evidence would point the other way then that's fine: we're just honestly seeking truth.
Try and find this lady's podcast (I'll need to look it up). Also search "exvangelical podcast" to see some channels and pick an episode that you like title of - podcasts are like listening to a friend whose been there and can be really relaxing. There arexbooks too but don't want to overload information!
But please do have that chat with GP/ nurse about how you're feeling, that's #1. Then just have a little look on UA-cam and Google "exvangelical podcasts" to see, just start somewhere small one step at a time, you can always click away from anything you don't like - you're just having a wee peek! 😉 And don't feel you ever need to accept that conditional treatment from anyone, maybe you're seeing their true colours?
@Leila Magrath If you believe God exists, why not pray to God and ask Him all the questions/concerns you have. You can even tell God that you're questioning His words.
@@sopranods People do this all the time and always receive a different answer from one another.
Love your content.... great job!
She’s awesome! Her description of Hillsong and then evangelism was spot on lol
What a fantastically honest conversation. I'll look Holly up after this. ❤️
thanks gayle, check out her podcast MEGA!
I was raised a Christian, no surprise, I rebelled. Since then, I've had several belief systems that later fell apart. Only recently have I embraced that there's just a lot I don't know and we as a society don't know. And I spend years searching, convinced I'd find the ultimate truth. The reason I searched so hard was because I experienced something I can't explain through human means. But now, I have maybe 2 concrete beliefs and everything else I accept that I don't know. What I think I know for sure is that there's a spirit realm and that there's a Creator, but I don't think it's Yahweh anymore.
I found this interview fascinating. Politically, I am now also trying to stay more in the middle. I think as an American I look at it differently because my job was threatened over something I apparently can't name without my comments being deleted. So excuse me if I stay more on the right.
Don’t turn away from God because of what ‘ man’ made it out to be. For I know the plans I have for you sys the Lord, plans to prosper you and not for destruction, plans to give you a hope and a future, then you will call on me and seek my face and I will be found by you, when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:11
20:36 To kind of extrapolate on this point a bit, there's more to computers than just 'lines of code'. There's different tiers of code, and the deeper down you get, the harder it is to change a piece of code. Firmware is the deepest layer of code, and it's how the different components talk with each other. For a human-body equivalent, it's the info your nerves carry from your eyes or your hands to your brain and vice versa. Changing the firmware is suuuuuper difficult, and trying to do it with zero reference on how to is borderline suicidal. If you miss a single comma or bracket when changing the firmware of your motherboard, you can completely brick it. The next layer up from firmware is the BIOS or 'Basic Input/Output System' which pairs the rudimentary parts of the firmware's communications with some sort of user-accessible interface (hence the name). The BIOS equivalent for the human body would be involuntary processes like breathing, digesting, or blinking (the autonomic nervous system). Could you tweak such a thing? Sure, but again, it's crazy difficult, and messing it up could leave you with a useless brick that you can no longer interface with. For humans, we've seen what happens when this system breaks down. We've given them names like sleep apnea.
One layer up from the BIOS is where code starts getting a little more accessible: the operating system. While messing with the operating system's files can be tough, it's way safer than the other two. You can't completely brick a computer by changing a line of code anymore. It's still difficult if you have no frame of reference or experience, but it's doable with enough grit and determination. This, I believe, would be equivalent to a human's core identity and personality. You can change who you are, but it's far from easy and involves some rather drastic measures in some cases. This is where I consider gender identity and sexuality to reside along with other core traits. As with the layer before, we have names for dysfunctions in this system. We call them 'Narcissistic Personality Disorder' or 'Sociopathy'. Much like how the operating system of a computer is largely dictated by whichever company has created it, the societies and social groups we grow up in and around have significant impacts on who we are. It's not guaranteed for us like it is for computers, of course, but the influence is hard to get rid of.
Beyond that layer, things get a lot simpler, and I won't spend much time on these (especially since this is getting kinda long). The final layer is the program layer. Programs or applications rely on the systems before it for a strong framework. Think of this like the various thoughts or tasks you partake in on a daily basis. Washing the dishes, thinking about dinner, reading a book... All of those are our 'programs'. Much like the last two layers, we have names for problems in this system. One such name is 'executive dysfunction'. It takes some work to change how we handle our programs or which programs we select at a given time, but it's far easier than changing any of the other layers.
I know this was a lot to read, so I commend anyone for getting through this. Code is still far more complex than what I've described here, and there are literally thousands of books and videos and instructional documents made about it. I did my best to make things understandable for the layperson. Where religion lies in all this, I'll leave for further discussion. It's ridiculously late for me, and I should get some rest.
What you are referring to is the paganism that was occuring at the time. The baby sacrifices were being dictated by the little "g" god of this world, Satan. Not God, the Father of Jesus.💕
Hey, Andrew. Can’t wait to watch this over the weekend. This subject hits close to home - long, weird, kinda sad story - and it’s always fascinated me. Later...
So true. Brought up in the world of Catholicism, I finally found that the best spiritual guidance comes from Hinduism, even if you don't go to the temples. All the good you need is inside of you. Just sit quietly and wait.
The mass hysteria in the " Happy Clappy " Evangelical Church is very close to the Black Gospel Church and the first time I experienced it at a School religious meeting scared me so much that I excused myself. Cliff ( kitty ) Richard was there looking lovingly at the young boys . Children quickly moved to a different School .
Please bring her back on again, Andrew Gold!
I will do eventually !
No friend, you know not what you are talking about. God is completely against child sacrifice. He had the Israelites destroy these tribes. Your channel will sink if you dishonor God. It will. Read the Bible for yourself. Michael Heiser is a biblical scholar, he can give you honest insight about the Bible.
I had never been to church ans went to a friend's church spaghetti night to support him. After dinner a neighbour of mine from our street started talking in tongues. People gathered around her, started clapping and praising around her and I was full on WTH? 35 years on and I still think of her as a nut. I left and swore at my friend to never trick me like that again because it was type of recruiting night. I still roll my eyes thinking of it. Yikes.
Great video. Growing up in a non-religious household makes all religions seem as valid to me as Harry Potter. Christianity is as weird to me as Scientology.
As an atheist, I know more about the Bible than my whole family. My mom’s side of the family were all Catholic, and they are notorious for not reading the Bible. And my dad was raised by his ex-Catholic, Baptist grandfather, but doesn’t go to church.
My 82 year old uncle, who was raised Catholic but has been attending a Seventh Day Adventist church, has lately been saying “did you know such and such in the Bible.” And I’d say “yes, of course.” It’s all new to him, but I’ve been through the Bible quite a few times, so I’ve heard it all.
It’s quite funny.
I really do think that reading the Bible makes you an atheist, as Mark Twain said.
I was taught that speaking in tongues was a power given to the disciples so they could spread the word of Jesus. It allowed them to speak in their own languages while people heard them in their languages. The gibberish that they call speaking in tongues now, I find laughable.
Church is supposed to be uplifting and communication and fellowship. Church shouldn't be pushing anyone to do things that they don't understand. Unfortunately her experience in church was traumatic. Completely opposite of what church stands for. I feel bad she had such a bad experience. I truly hope she finds the answers she's looking for..😢
I used to but not any more. It can be demonic but in many cases it's just speaking gibberish which is something one can learn to do. Following practices such as speaking in tongues started to affect my mental health negatively. I tried switching to a conservative church but eventually gave up on religion entirely.
I’m glad to hear it Alexia !
Very intersting title, but the opening statement by the lady is what I think you consider to be the most offending/unacceptable of all. As far as Speaking in tongues is concerned, that gift does not exist anymore as it was just a sign for the church in eary years.
That aside...
What most of the Christians do not probably realise is that God's nature does not change. God created humans in His image and they shared the holy nature of God until they sinned. They sinned because they had the freewill to do so, and the right circumstances were there.
Regardless of all that, God cannot be in fellowship with His creation if they have fallen short of His glory. Such is God's nature, regardless of age.
If you claim to or follow God of the Bible or not, facts are what they are, and one can't present God's truth to another by sugar coating so it would sound pleasing, and acceptable to all. It will not be and every true Christian knows this.
Message of the Bible is simple. God is most Holy. He created Man for fellowship, in His own image. Since man decided to sin, God couldn't be in fellowship with Man. Instead of destroying His creation, God made an opportunity for all through the sacrifice of Lord Jesus, to be redeemed. Because the alternative is the Hellfire which is not just for the humans who choose not to acknowledge God or accept His plan of salvation, it is also for thr fallen angels and the devil.
God could've destroyed the whole earth and mankind, make new creation but no - He wants His creation to exercise their freewill and find the truth.
Its the duty of every Christian parent to teach their children about God and his nature. It is not for fear mongering, as you make it out to be. The world is perverted as such, that every concerned parent would protect their child at any cost. But only this is deemed important because most people do not consider God to be serious or real and therefore, God's nature and ways aren't heeded to. They'd rather belive in a watered down version of God should they believe at all.
Fear of God is offensive to most people and the fact that everyone will be held accountable before a morally just God, highly unacceptable to them.
I'd just say this, trying to contain the creator of the Universe, and life into our moral bubble, is foolishness. If anything, we ought to look to conform to the standards of God, but not contain. To those who truly wish upon this, will have the grace and favor of God in abundance.
Brilliant interview
Used to be a very tame Baptist and went with some friends from school to a Pentecostal service once and whoa man it's freaking wild. The entire congregation went into it all around us and my girlfriend from the time and I never went back lol.
Great discussion and thought provoking👍
I’m glad martial arts was brought up. I was part of a school like 10 yrs ago that was kind of culty ( I realize now after binging your channel). We started every class by reciting the tenets of the system, even though they all were good things (like honesty etc) I see now that reciting these every class (2-3xwk)really invested people in the system. There were a lot of extra fees on top of the monthly fee, you paid for the belt testing, to go to conventions, competitions, uniforms, gear, T-shirts etc. it could be a very expensive hobby. There was a lot of ceremonial stuff with the way you conducted yourself when entering the dojo, mat, and especially in front of the Sifu. All these are not unusual for martial arts in general, but my instructor added a lot of extra responsibilities,like community service, assisting with kids classes (for free) etc to belt requirements. It really changed the way I acted and thought in everything,I have to admit for the better in the beginning, but towards the end was feeling like it was all too much and felt very guilty leaving. I think it’s when they put up a sign saying something about how we should consider the Sifu our father that I knew it was getting too weird. It definitely showed me(as an atheist) how much the fellowship of being with people with similar interests/ beliefs can make you feel that sense of belonging and pull you into their system
Appreciate you calling her on the woo-woo quantum thought time travel. Quantum mechanics brings out the inner crackpot in everybody 😂
Robots or Mind/Body/Spirit Complexes, I call I but know I am Eye of Love boundless Love. Eye of Light, infinite Light. On Her might she may come around the mountain or no but I am Eye of All Love with no need to Know. Thanks to you both for lending your light that we transmute old energy in dark places.
Creeker here! Holly worked at Impact when I was there.
I was raised in a Southern Baptist church and had hell pounded into my brain from the time I was 5 till my teenage years when I finally left the church. It messed me up and scared me and kept me from doing fun things because I thought I would go to hell if I drank a beer. Smh. The church can be very dangerous and damaging.
She is speaking of Exodus about Yahweh ergo the Jewish nation under the leadership of Moses sacrificing children?? Exodus clearly states that Yahweh condemned the Cannonite nations for sacrificing their children to their gods. Something that never came up in Yahweh's heart. Seems She has just enough information to mislead and confuse both herself and those who take her at her word. So what Exodus translation is she referring to?? What is the scriptures she is "remembering" please let me know. Apocryphal Books exist that were thrown out of the original canonical scriptures. She is straight up incorrect here.
On the topic of projection, if you've ever been in a relationship with a personality disordered person you'll experience the crazy making behavior of them describing you as the one doing all the abusive things they have done or are doing to you. I also could see that I was projecting all of my own qualities onto them, especially those I wanted to see (empathy, honesty, remorse, regret, guilt, love, when they weren't experiencing those emotions at all. This tendency keeps us stuck much longer than we would be if we could stay in reality.
I grew up Pentecostal and I can assure you it is terrifying. Absolutely terrifying.
Check out The power of belief- by Bruce Lipton. Also, Gregg Braden. Lots to learn.
I thought I saw the curvature from a plane as well once - it was such a beautiful sight to see, there were no clouds!
What a wonderful discussion about thought grids, how judgement is not love consciousness, programming, how humans are not coded as love consciousness, the power of the observer to control one's own thoughts, as opposed to being controlled by one's thoughts, and awakening consciousness flows within humanity. Thank you for this. 🌺🌺🌺
My family was Pentecostal and we were never forced to speak in tongues at all.Things these days are a lot more full of pressure.
On returning to my evangelical roots and my country of birth (SA), i began to wonder how this financially prosperous congregation i grew up in, had benifited from Apartheid during its heyday. Its taken me years to even start processing this.
Member now. You've proved yourself! Welcome to my, very hard to enter "club" of -people who'm actually think. I will always buy someone like you a pint a month as poor as i am. Cheers Andrew, you're GOLD!
Aw thank you so much HS K, I’m honoured to be in that club
As long as someone's beliefs make the happy, don't cause them or anyone any harm, is essentially a very positive thing in their lives, let them believe. I know so many Pentecostal Church Members from Appalachia (my mom wasn't Pentecostal, but originally from Appalachia) who would give you their last drink of water, or last morsel for food. When I was married, there was a Pentecostal Lady with whom my maternal grandmother was friendly whose home had recently been destroyed in a fire. I mean mere weeks before. These people are some of the most hard working, usually blue collar, caring, decent, and are beloved community members in Appalachia. This woman found a way to get wool and crochet pot holders for me. They were incredibly beautiful and true folk art passed down hundreds of years from usually the British Islands. My point is that she was in the middle of a devastating personal crisis, and she still found time to make me something not expensive, but invaluable for the care, kindness, beautiful art,and selflessness she showed to give me a wedding present. I mean there are always exceptions and people are good and bad everywhere. I just say by far the majority I know are happy, they love their lives, their religion does so much good. Yes it seems odd, but they don't push anyone else to change. I say let them believe. If it makes life more peaceful or offers comfort to you in a moment of need, then it's a beautiful thing.
I stopped going to church and told my family I wasn't a Christian. They tried to stage an intervention. The pastor even came to our house. My brother said, "Haven't you read the Bible!?!?" I said, "Yes I have. Have you?" 🦗 🦗 🦗
wow! glad you got away from it metal cat mom!
Kind of on the lines of belief orientations, could the study that linked 'conservative, far right, evangelicals' enlarged amygdala which is where the fear reaction is located... An interesting read that rings highly of truth when comparing the tendencies of the "faithful"
And, I think I may have been around 11 when I went to a friend's church where they spoke in tongues, freaked me out at first, I thought the person next to me was having a stroke.
Fascinating.
I think that maybe it is always best to ask actual theologians about Biblical questions, such as what it says, and what those words mean in the original languages. Better to discuss these matters with scholars who have spent the better parts of their lives studying it. Many of us pursue our spiritual lives, but sometimes end up with some very goofy ideas due to lack of knowledge.
cop out
Agree. The sheer ignorance of real Christian doctrine now practiced in the popular Pentecostal (now the Charismatic) "church" is what gets real Christians a bad name. They do not represent me. Including this woman. She is not and has never been a Christian. She doesn't even understand the basics and therefore misrepresents them, like most atheists.
This was a reply to Polly. Not Esben.
This woman is disrespectful and mocking Christianity. She is not the authority on anything concerning Christ, faith, and salvation.
If your belief system cannot stand up to scrutiny and satire, then i it is not worthy of respect.
I am so very glad that following Christ is not a "belief system" ❤@@AndrewGold1
I refused to speak in tongues and then I only spoke one word to make my pentecostal friend happy.
I call it gibberish. Because in the Bible, clearly it says, it should be always accompanied by interpretation. And someone always understood the language, when it first happened to the apostles.
I slowly stopped visiting her church. I experienced weird spiritually oppressive sensations, not visions. But I felt like, no, something is off.
The whole time I didn’t feel safe or that I could fully trust the leadership.
I am a confirmed and devoted christian, but since I was born again in the Holy Spirit, all by myself, no one was around. It was of my own free will that I came to my faith.
I did grow up in two prebysterian churches. And was a member of a baptist church after that until 2012.
But I even told members, I was only doing it to be able to vote in church meetings. Not because I actually fully embraced their emphasis on baptism.
I told them, I experienced the baptism by the Holy Spirit. So I always got speaker in tongues coming at me for not having a tongues experience to prove my experience. They did it gently but still, a bit of coercive attitude.
I never chose nor will ever choose a denomination.
I only believe in a Christ centred and biblically sound and in context perspective and worldview.
I also experienced oppressive spiritual warfare, but it didn’t manifest physically. But even some christians didn’t believe me.
Of either experiences, both how the Holy Spirit worked in my life, nor how satan oppressed me via his principality of oppressive spirits.
But the way both sides interpret or react to things makes me deeply sad.
I always wanted to be brave/courageous and a peacemaker. And most of the time I have, but verbally, I have expressed things I regretted. Especially, when angry, and knowing anger can blind the mind to be extremely certain.
Sadly, the one key thing I strongly believe in, freedom of choice of the will. Consent. Both sides prize but only for themselves.
Not for the other side when they take their views to extremes.
I deeply believe in fostering and adoption, so to me, pro life and pro choice are both equally too much. We should just let each side choose. And both sides should focus more on the orphans who need families. Not just a home, or a house to live in. Actually be loved and cared for as family. Education on what the commitment to adopt means.
Never allow full adoption till the foster period shows the family, they will stick to their commitment to the child.
After the scandal of a chinese baby boy been "rehomed" by a family that used his adoption for views in UA-cam, I was horrified, how those involved didn’t make sure of certain things.
The problem really is when people lie and coerce victims into believing or been so afraid, that they cannot escape or get help. Especially, babies who cannot communicate.
Like the horror stories of adopted children, been adopted into a house of physical and/or sexual abuse.
Anyways, mainly, I only see it as a battle over the mind, the spiritual experiences.
Each side will believe as they will. Some are false teachers, and create cults, that harm mainly women and children.
Wolves in sheep’s clothing. Polygamy is definitely not God’s design. God only permitted for a reason. But it always showed that those in those kind of relationships always paid a price/consequence. Solomon’s harem, he regretted after they led him astray spiritually.
When I used to read the Bible as a kid, I only found it interesting as reading any of my fave fairy tales. But after receiving the Holy Spirit after I prayed for three days, of my own volition. I experienced true and genuine repentance of two past events in my life, God convicted me of.
And the oppressive spiritual warfare was intense as well. But I never had full visions. Only a sense of the Presence of the Holy Spirit, only one time Jesus, breathing on me for my healing.
And all my spiritual oppressive warfare, it felt like the principality under satan was harassing me and tormenting me.
Got good help via a ministry that doesn’t call it deliverance. But who help one realize their identity in Christ.
I summarized it as I am God’s beloved child, created for His good purpose.
Sadly, his ministry and a few others I follow are the few true peacemakers.
Some I used to I stopped, because they were too political and are definitely extremely pro life and anti LGBTQ+ and used to mock people about getting letters were people wrote anti christian beliefs but attributed it to them, when they disagreed.
Plus, too much emphasis on condemnation. Not making sure they kept it to Gracious Truth in Agape Love.
I entrust every individual human since Adam and Eve, till Jesus returns and God’s Kingdom is established for eternity.
Even every unborn spirit/soul.
And hell to me is just complete and utter separation from God’s Agape Love.
The key thing few fully understand and focus on is that it’s about been in right relationship with Him.
Rejecting Him is a God given choice to each individual.
Eternal torment, biblically, only speaks of thirst is the only true example. The rest was all examples humans imagined.
To me eternal torment means no more of the Holy Spirit’s spring of living water.
And I do not trust males who alway chase after the glory.
And God never said he was male as humans are male. That is a toxic patriarchal attitude in my opinion.
Sinful men have abused women and children and that needs to be truly acknowledged. Not hidden in secrecy.
Privacy is about protecting someone who was harmed. Secrecy only protects the perpetrator/predator/cult leader/psychopath/sociopath.
I only trust those who truly seek God’s glory.
Because.
It is.
Glory Is God’s❣️
💖✝️📖🕊💖
Yes I have sleep paralysis first time I was so scared I was out of my body, so scared. Now it feels not so bad because I know what is happening.
Sacrifice of babies? Think you should have to prove that one, shouldn't get away with claiming that God promoted child sacrifice in the Bible. God forbade people making their children pass through the fire, which was an actual form of child sacrifice at the time.
Grew up in Apostolic pentecostal Church. Lived in constant fear from their teachings. Would never subject my children to it.
Me neither! It's scarier than many "rituals" I've witnessed on the "dark side" lol seriously though!
About the shaking to release trauma, look up David Berceli and TRE (Trauma Releasing Exercises).