holy CRAP the white horse was either really big or that lady was small! But the winner was amazing its changed so much since then i don't think the riders now a days use thoroughbreds
Michael Matz is BEYOND amazing! He survived the crash of United Airlines flight 232, and ran back in to save two children. He got a medal of honor for that... more than 100 people died in that crash. He carried the flag for the US delegation in the 1996 Olympics opening ceremony. The first equestrian athlete to ever do that. He also was the trainer of the (tragic!) 2006 Kentucky Derby winner... Barbaro.
Why TBs have almost been completed eliminated out of the showjumping ring I don't know. There is nothing better than a great TB showjumper like For the Moment. And thank you for putting this up!
True, that's sorta how For The Moment got his name. Lisa Jacquin rode him as a training program, and nicknamed him "For The Moment," because that's about how long she planned to ride him, until she could get her hands on a warmblood. Well, a good decade, dual AGA Horse of the Year (a record surpassed by only Gem Twist) titles, multiple American Invitational wins, and an Olympic medal later... they were still together. :)
@ImmortalSynn yes thats him :) i love the way he sits in the air and the way he launches himself. very smooth. i think you should definately make a tribute!!! do it!! haha.
I love TBs!! They always give 110%. I have ridden a couple of WB when trying for clients of my trainers, but not my personal choice. I would love to see them comeback to GP showjumping someday. I love how the top 3 horses are TBs:)
@TheSofieLee It really is. I've had this tape 16yrs now, and I *still* watch it at least once per week... it's just such an inspiration to see talent on this level!
...of course he did, he's been riding at that level since the early '70s! This was his 60th AGA win, which was quite an accomplishment, considering that the only rider to have hit that threshold before Matz was Rodney Jenkins.
Yeah, noticed that as well. Land of Kings was such an amazing mount too (see my tribute video to him!)... it'll be interesting to see if Indigo lives up to that. Here's hoping that he will!
@DJDangersJessiJane Welcome. Be on the lookout for my next vid, it'll be called "Land of Kings: Three-"P" SuperStallion!" or something similar to that (haven't decided yet, lol) and it will feature Land of Kings (the big grey seen in this video, under Margie Engle) doing several 90s-style courses like this! Should have it up soon, if not tonight. :)
LaCosta goes way back with Margie... before even Daydream and Saluut II. He was, IINM, her first (and for a long time, her primary) FEI-level grand prix horse, and really helped shape her into what she's become today.
I'll very soon be posting another one, where a single Thoroughbred DOMINATES a jumpoff full of warmbloods. It will be called "Fairway: the Good Ol' Master" ...be on the lookout for it. :)
You may be right, but I'd like to throw this idea into the discussion. I actually think that it had to do with money more than anything. The Europeans developed this wonderful product-the WB-and did a great job of marketing it. When professionals realized the kind of money that they could sell these horses for and the high demand from people who have way too much money for their own good, they all started buying, selling, and riding them.
Because they're so similar. They looked virtually alike, despite being different breeds/ages. They both are considered "the best" by their respective circles of fans. And they both have sufficient corroboration to lay claim to that title: Milton is the all-time money winner, which includes a du Maurier championship. Gem was OFFICIALLY named "World's Best Horse" at the 1990 world championships (WEGs), and also has won 3 AGA championships, which no other horse has been able to duplicate.
@msiheartcows Yep. He's now in the Showjumping Hall of Fame as the oldest to win a grand prix in North America, at the age of 22. He kept going after this. :) He was also 2-time AGA Horse of the Year twice... a record that's been broken only by Gem Twist.
Welcome. It's sort of a chicken/egg type thing... you don't generally see running-courses like this at the highest levels anymore. Mostly what you see are technical-courses. The former suits the TBs, the latter suits the WBs. I can't say whether an increase in imported/bred WBs caused courses to shift to technicality over speed, or the shift in tech. over speed caused the increase in WB's over TBs. I'm thinking the latter though.
Keep in mind that that's going to vary by time/date/location. Heck, I taped this 13yrs ago. The channel that it came on doesn't even exist anymore. Nowadays, Outdoor Life Network has plenty of shows, but it's a premium station for most people. ESPN almost never shows showjumping competitions anymore-- which sucks, because it used to almost every Sunday.
@ABonner93 unfortunately you're completely right, but I'd venture to guess if you had a nice line bred specifically for show jumping they would be awesome horses in the ring.
@matrixmare He was. You can see more of him in my video "Margie vs. Patty: a Clock-out knockout" and can look forward to a video featuring just him, soon.
Do you have any videos of VIP the Dutch warmblood stallion ridden by Debbie Dolan. I worked with him and Land of Kings at Hill Top Farm in the 90's and would love to see some videos of him. King is on UA-cam quite a bit, but can't find VIP videos.
I don't have a specific link, but a while ago I was searching for him and VIP and found him a few times. I only found a few pictures of VIP, but no videos. The Hilltop Farm website has some pictures of VIP in their memorial area.
Huh? Where else is Lenz on UA-cam?? I had never seen any of him, until I put these up. And I searched all over. Links? No, the only mount I have for Debbie would be Quantum Leap, at this venue, and also at Upperville.
Featured, by order of go: OLISCO - Michael Matz LAND OF KINGS - Margie Goldstein (Engle) FOR THE MOMENT - Lisa Jacquin QUANTUM LEAP - Debbie Dolan Sweeney RHUM IV - Michael Matz LACOSTA - Margie Goldstein (Engle) MONT CENIS - Patty Stovel
As said, it's subjective.: Milton made more money, so if that's how you judge "better", then it's him. Gem beat Milton in just about every competition they ever squared off against each other in. So some consider *him* better for that. Also, at the inaugural WEGs, Gem was officially given the title of "World's Best Horse" over Milton. So you may wanna take that into consideration. Lastly, Gem placed in many FEI competitions under 3 main riders. Milton did it primary under one.
@deaconredwhiteandblu I know right?! I was totally rooting for LaCosta in this too... we don't really get a chance to see it here, but that horse was soooo FAST! You can even hear the commentators mention it several times: to see him go was like watching a lightning bolt weave its way through a course. Sucked so bad to see him out of the running, but that's how it goes. ;)
...considering that he broke Rodney Jenkins' record of 60 victories within a single showjumping league (interestingly enough: THIS win was the one to tie that record!), I'd say that what you suggest, probably isn't the case ;)
I would suggest spending some time reading some of the other comments here, as the topic's been covered quite a bit... but to sum it up: basically my whole point in posting this video is to detail the differences between 1990s USA courses, that tended to have more emphasis on speed/agility (catering to the Thoroughbred type), versus 2000s type, which feature more emphasis on scope and technical questions (catering to warmbloods). So to answer your question: lower fences and more running.
@alessiabbyxD Land of Kings? ...if you like him, look forward to a full-feature video of just him, that I'll be making. You can also see more of him now in my video "Margie vs. Patty: a ClockOut KnockOut" Enjoy ;)
@matrixmare Then be on the lookout for my next video. It'll be called "Thoroughbred Domination: Fairway-- the Good Old Master" . It will feature an entire field of warmbloods getting the absolute PANTS whooped off of them, by the only Thoroughbred in the field... and an older one at that... Fairway.
The ottos never looked like For the Moment, the problem is we lost the sport horse TBs breeding lines and programs when the WB from Europe became popular. Funny thing is most of thiose WBs have loads of sport horse TB lines in them....
@AlexanderTheLiberal ...because she's not there for the likes of you, but rather for spectators who might be new viewers of the sport and thus not grasp the true complexities/difficulty of what they're seeing.
@horseskickbutforever Rhum IV? Yeah, very amazing showjumper... not the fastest, not the scopiest-- damn he was sooo incredibly *smooth* in nearly everything he did! He could take just about any 1.60m jumpoff course, and make it look like a hunter round. I'm considering making a tribute video to him, as I have several of his spectacular wins on tape. :)
@matrixmare True, but your last just highlit the reason we don't see so many of them in the grands prix any more... because there's just so much more money to be made (by breeders/trainers) by pushing the warmblood philosophy. I'm hoping that Gemini (Gem Twist's clone) changes that, when he begins breeding!
The words are "many" and "Thoroughbred"... and as true as the statement may be, it's a rather moot point-- as there's a whole lot more KWPNs/Hanoverians/Holsteiners/Oldenburgs out there who are nothing more than kiddies' lesson-horses, than many would like to admit.
I think that it was kind of a fad and I don't really blame the pros because there is a lot more money in show WBs than show TBs. After all, you can get a TB off the track for very, very cheap. They won't ever be worth as much in the show ring as WBs because they have other purposes (racing) where you can get them for very cheap. I think a good TB can still be just as competitive as a WB. The really nice TBs are athletic enough to be as technical as the WBs.
For you maybe, but then again, I'm guessing you probably already have a fair grasp of the sport... the commentary is more intended for those who don't.
Boy do I wish Michael was still riding grand prix. He's just amazing to watch.
That was so intense wow! True talent in both horse and rider right there!
holy CRAP the white horse was either really big or that lady was small! But the winner was amazing its changed so much since then i don't think the riders now a days use thoroughbreds
...BOTH!
Margie is 5'2, and Land of Kings was 17hh. So she's tiny, and he's huge ;)
He was noticeably thick too. Very broad barrel.
ImmortalSynn i loving stallions like that! they're so beautiful to look at, and watching them move is amazing!
I do!
Michael Matz is BEYOND amazing!
He survived the crash of United Airlines flight 232, and ran back in to save two children. He got a medal of honor for that... more than 100 people died in that crash.
He carried the flag for the US delegation in the 1996 Olympics opening ceremony. The first equestrian athlete to ever do that.
He also was the trainer of the (tragic!) 2006 Kentucky Derby winner... Barbaro.
Didnt Michael Matz train Barbaro?
the name sounded very familiar...
Amen to that. Rhum was amazing, and I seriously miss Michael as a rider.
omg that michael matz was amazing, wish ppl still jumped like this. Some of them turns were amazing and the power of the horses. just wow!
Wow. I wish they still had this.
This video had great quality too!
Thanks for uploading!
Why TBs have almost been completed eliminated out of the showjumping ring I don't know. There is nothing better than a great TB showjumper like For the Moment. And thank you for putting this up!
holy crap 1.35...that horse is amazing! my favourite. all great horses and rider :)
Michael Matz with a SLICK turn on Rhum IV at 6:16! My jaw actually dropped. That's what jumpers are all about!
Michael Matz was such a beautiful rider. Miss seeing him over fences! He's done ok for himself, though ;)
True, that's sorta how For The Moment got his name.
Lisa Jacquin rode him as a training program, and nicknamed him "For The Moment," because that's about how long she planned to ride him, until she could get her hands on a warmblood.
Well, a good decade, dual AGA Horse of the Year (a record surpassed by only Gem Twist) titles, multiple American Invitational wins, and an Olympic medal later... they were still together. :)
@ImmortalSynn yes thats him :) i love the way he sits in the air and the way he launches himself. very smooth. i think you should definately make a tribute!!! do it!! haha.
Wow, land of kings is freakin huge!!
I love TBs!! They always give 110%. I have ridden a couple of WB when trying for clients of my trainers, but not my personal choice. I would love to see them comeback to GP showjumping someday.
I love how the top 3 horses are TBs:)
@horseskickbutforever
Indeed, that's what made this class so spectacular... one of the most memorable jumpoffs I've ever seen!
Wow, what a resemblance between Land of Kings and Margie's new mount Indigo!
Yes. He's now in the Showjumping Hall of Fame, as the oldest horse to win a showjumping grand prix class in both the USA and world.
and whoa that prize is huge!
@TheSofieLee
It really is. I've had this tape 16yrs now, and I *still* watch it at least once per week... it's just such an inspiration to see talent on this level!
These jumps are insane :)
Michael Matz is Da Bomb!!! I would have liked to see the interview at the end though, since he won I am sure they interviewed him, right?
Agreed. No one (in N.America anyways) beat Gina Johnson and the Southerns (Nancy and Linda) when it came to commentary!
Michael Matz = Great rider and horseman. I remember Chief at the 1986 World Championships in Aachen a Team Gold for u.s.a.
...of course he did, he's been riding at that level since the early '70s!
This was his 60th AGA win, which was quite an accomplishment, considering that the only rider to have hit that threshold before Matz was Rodney Jenkins.
Wow, Rhum IV is so freakin fast adn his turn to the wall was amazing! I think Lacosta is absolutely gorgeous though, I've never heard of him before.
Yeah, noticed that as well.
Land of Kings was such an amazing mount too (see my tribute video to him!)... it'll be interesting to see if Indigo lives up to that. Here's hoping that he will!
@DJDangersJessiJane
Welcome. Be on the lookout for my next vid, it'll be called "Land of Kings: Three-"P" SuperStallion!" or something similar to that (haven't decided yet, lol) and it will feature Land of Kings (the big grey seen in this video, under Margie Engle) doing several 90s-style courses like this!
Should have it up soon, if not tonight. :)
LaCosta goes way back with Margie... before even Daydream and Saluut II. He was, IINM, her first (and for a long time, her primary) FEI-level grand prix horse, and really helped shape her into what she's become today.
I'll very soon be posting another one, where a single Thoroughbred DOMINATES a jumpoff full of warmbloods.
It will be called "Fairway: the Good Ol' Master"
...be on the lookout for it. :)
You may be right, but I'd like to throw this idea into the discussion. I actually think that it had to do with money more than anything. The Europeans developed this wonderful product-the WB-and did a great job of marketing it. When professionals realized the kind of money that they could sell these horses for and the high demand from people who have way too much money for their own good, they all started buying, selling, and riding them.
Because they're so similar.
They looked virtually alike, despite being different breeds/ages. They both are considered "the best" by their respective circles of fans. And they both have sufficient corroboration to lay claim to that title:
Milton is the all-time money winner, which includes a du Maurier championship.
Gem was OFFICIALLY named "World's Best Horse" at the 1990 world championships (WEGs), and also has won 3 AGA championships, which no other horse has been able to duplicate.
@msiheartcows
Yep. He's now in the Showjumping Hall of Fame as the oldest to win a grand prix in North America, at the age of 22. He kept going after this. :)
He was also 2-time AGA Horse of the Year twice... a record that's been broken only by Gem Twist.
Good point.
Welcome.
It's sort of a chicken/egg type thing... you don't generally see running-courses like this at the highest levels anymore. Mostly what you see are technical-courses. The former suits the TBs, the latter suits the WBs. I can't say whether an increase in imported/bred WBs caused courses to shift to technicality over speed, or the shift in tech. over speed caused the increase in WB's over TBs.
I'm thinking the latter though.
Agreed. That, and it was MUCH easier to find the grands prix on TV... back in the days of the Prime Network, and when ESPN showed showjumping. :(
Keep in mind that that's going to vary by time/date/location.
Heck, I taped this 13yrs ago. The channel that it came on doesn't even exist anymore.
Nowadays, Outdoor Life Network has plenty of shows, but it's a premium station for most people. ESPN almost never shows showjumping competitions anymore-- which sucks, because it used to almost every Sunday.
Those jumps are insane... xD
@ABonner93 unfortunately you're completely right, but I'd venture to guess if you had a nice line bred specifically for show jumping they would be awesome horses in the ring.
Sino Zephyrus Well, that's what Gem Twist's clones are hoping to address. ;)
...you should see the pedestal (4th jump) in the first round of this class. It was crazy. Only 1 in 7 horses got past it without a refusal!
@matrixmare
He was. You can see more of him in my video "Margie vs. Patty: a Clock-out knockout" and can look forward to a video featuring just him, soon.
Do you have any videos of VIP the Dutch warmblood stallion ridden by Debbie Dolan. I worked with him and Land of Kings at Hill Top Farm in the 90's and would love to see some videos of him. King is on UA-cam quite a bit, but can't find VIP videos.
I don't have a specific link, but a while ago I was searching for him and VIP and found him a few times. I only found a few pictures of VIP, but no videos. The Hilltop Farm website has some pictures of VIP in their memorial area.
@QueenBeatlesWings
They are. And look for a video featuring them in a little while. It'll be called "Land of Kings: the All-Around" :)
Huh? Where else is Lenz on UA-cam?? I had never seen any of him, until I put these up. And I searched all over. Links?
No, the only mount I have for Debbie would be Quantum Leap, at this venue, and also at Upperville.
I really wish the jumpers were still like this :/
Agreed!
Yes, Gem (and his clone, obviously) are both pure TBs.
Featured, by order of go:
OLISCO - Michael Matz
LAND OF KINGS - Margie Goldstein (Engle)
FOR THE MOMENT - Lisa Jacquin
QUANTUM LEAP - Debbie Dolan Sweeney
RHUM IV - Michael Matz
LACOSTA - Margie Goldstein (Engle)
MONT CENIS - Patty Stovel
Indeed he was
As said, it's subjective.:
Milton made more money, so if that's how you judge "better", then it's him.
Gem beat Milton in just about every competition they ever squared off against each other in. So some consider *him* better for that.
Also, at the inaugural WEGs, Gem was officially given the title of "World's Best Horse" over Milton. So you may wanna take that into consideration.
Lastly, Gem placed in many FEI competitions under 3 main riders. Milton did it primary under one.
god they are amazing riders and horses.
@horseskickbutforever
...which one are you talking about?
@GRITSNaturalHorse
Some of them (e.g., Land of Kings and Mont Cenis). Others (For the Moment) were actually pretty little.
@deaconredwhiteandblu
I know right?! I was totally rooting for LaCosta in this too... we don't really get a chance to see it here, but that horse was soooo FAST! You can even hear the commentators mention it several times: to see him go was like watching a lightning bolt weave its way through a course.
Sucked so bad to see him out of the running, but that's how it goes. ;)
@ImmortalSynn woops i meant 5.35 haha. the brown one. hes amazing :)
...considering that he broke Rodney Jenkins' record of 60 victories within a single showjumping league (interestingly enough: THIS win was the one to tie that record!), I'd say that what you suggest, probably isn't the case ;)
...actually I'd say it was tense up to the point of LaCosta's attempt at the turn, after that, the mood sorta lifted.
Agree?
Forgot to add-- anyone wanting to see the first-round for this competition should click on the new link provided in the info-box. :)
Yes he did.
He's also the same Michael Matz that received governmental honors for saving children in the crash of United Airlines flight 232.
Amazing, but I'm just noting that the third rider had short reins and you could see that the horse was fighting the big.
Wasn't Gem Twist a Thoroughbred too????
I would suggest spending some time reading some of the other comments here, as the topic's been covered quite a bit... but to sum it up: basically my whole point in posting this video is to detail the differences between 1990s USA courses, that tended to have more emphasis on speed/agility (catering to the Thoroughbred type), versus 2000s type, which feature more emphasis on scope and technical questions (catering to warmbloods).
So to answer your question: lower fences and more running.
@alessiabbyxD
Land of Kings? ...if you like him, look forward to a full-feature video of just him, that I'll be making.
You can also see more of him now in my video "Margie vs. Patty: a ClockOut KnockOut"
Enjoy ;)
@ABonner93
Wasn't it awesome?! ...I miss those days in showjumping!
@matrixmare
Then be on the lookout for my next video. It'll be called "Thoroughbred Domination: Fairway-- the Good Old Master" .
It will feature an entire field of warmbloods getting the absolute PANTS whooped off of them, by the only Thoroughbred in the field... and an older one at that... Fairway.
The ottos never looked like For the Moment, the problem is we lost the sport horse TBs breeding lines and programs when the WB from Europe became popular. Funny thing is most of thiose WBs have loads of sport horse TB lines in them....
how old is he?
Oh Darn! :O( Oh well! hehehee. I didn't even know he existed then, course I do now!
@AlexanderTheLiberal
...because she's not there for the likes of you, but rather for spectators who might be new viewers of the sport and thus not grasp the true complexities/difficulty of what they're seeing.
@horseskickbutforever
Rhum IV?
Yeah, very amazing showjumper... not the fastest, not the scopiest-- damn he was sooo incredibly *smooth* in nearly everything he did!
He could take just about any 1.60m jumpoff course, and make it look like a hunter round.
I'm considering making a tribute video to him, as I have several of his spectacular wins on tape. :)
@matrixmare
True, but your last just highlit the reason we don't see so many of them in the grands prix any more... because there's just so much more money to be made (by breeders/trainers) by pushing the warmblood philosophy.
I'm hoping that Gemini (Gem Twist's clone) changes that, when he begins breeding!
Rhum IV is not a TB....
That said, I'm hoping that Gem Twist's clone brings back the TB blood into American (and heck, international) showjumpers.
He's a Selle Francais.
7:20 commentators curse
The words are "many" and "Thoroughbred"... and as true as the statement may be, it's a rather moot point-- as there's a whole lot more KWPNs/Hanoverians/Holsteiners/Oldenburgs out there who are nothing more than kiddies' lesson-horses, than many would like to admit.
Pretty sure he's full, but don't quote me
IYSS :)
I think that it was kind of a fad and I don't really blame the pros because there is a lot more money in show WBs than show TBs. After all, you can get a TB off the track for very, very cheap. They won't ever be worth as much in the show ring as WBs because they have other purposes (racing) where you can get them for very cheap. I think a good TB can still be just as competitive as a WB. The really nice TBs are athletic enough to be as technical as the WBs.
For you maybe, but then again, I'm guessing you probably already have a fair grasp of the sport... the commentary is more intended for those who don't.
but she didnt take a breath the whole time lol. It was a bit distracting