I kinda wanna joke and say "Gee I really hope that works out for them", but seriously I wish more business leaders would be that frank and seemingly respectful of the staff. He seems to acknowledge that its the staff that makes it work, not the people in the corner office.
I applied to National Airlines multiple times in the late 1970s. Went to work for Southwest and two weeks later National offered me the job. I stayed with the then itty-bitty airline, whereas I would have been wiped out in the Pan Am merger had I switched. Very blessed to have retired after 34 years with Southwest.
A sober message along with some motivational talk. Did Pan Am ever do those airline refurbishments? From what I've read, the planes were looking rather shabby in Pan Am's final years.
PanAm fue la pionera en operar el B_707 y 747 lo lógico en los 80's hubiera ocurrido lo mismo con el B_757, 767 pero no ocurrió era un reflejo de comienzo de la caída de la compañía
I come from a long ago PA family. My father was with PA for 35+ years, and I started there in 66 before moving to EA/CO/UA later. Flying PA in the 60s and early 70s was always great, service and aircraft were the best. In the later 70s into the 80s I didn't get to fly PA at all, but in 87-89 flew them several times. I took them on such routes as MIA-HOU/MIA-LAX/DFW-MIA even MIA-ATL when naturally they were not the big carrier on the route, but just out of some kind of loyalty I guess, and to give them a shot. Pretty much all the flights were not great, the F service was ok, but nothing exceptional, coach was not poor, but routine. What was clear was the aircraft were tired and old, and the crews were not happy (to be expected). It was a small sample, but probably reflected what was going on. I saw the same kind of thing at EA at the time, you knew there wasn't any long term hope. Really was a disappointment.
El mejor reflejo de como funciona una empresa es ver la actitud de empleados y Panam en últimos 4 años no era lo mísmo de antes ya había perdido algo de brillo
At 11m46s, a clip at the gate appears to show an aircraft named “Clipper Employee Pride”. I’ve compiled an exhaustive list over 25+ years of aircraft names from company records and aviation sites, but this one is new to me.
I'm assuming he's mostly referring to Eastern. Borman had been forced out and Lorenzo was in the process of basically gutting the airline to prop up his other airlines. He'd eventually lock out the mechanics and trigger a bunch of sympathy strikes, leading to Eastern's bankruptcy. This is also the Carl Icahn era at TWA. Corporate raiders were buying these airlines and sucking out as much as they could before they went under.
I flew PA in First Class between LAX to JFK in 1986. It was sad to see the end of PA approaching...old and ratty aircraft. I wonder if the cabin refurbishment proposed in this video took place. ✈️✈️✈️
El fin ya había comenzado en 1978 con la famosa desregularizacion de mercado aereo de estados Unidos donde las demás aerolíneas 🇺🇸 ya podían volar a todo el mundo simplemente PanAm no supo adaptarse al cambio cuando le tocó competir
they all in the end blame labor and labor costs for their failure to manage they take HUGE compensation to run the airline in profit but you did not do your job so you should be FIRED
Management means every salaried or non-union position. As Marty mentioned they had already laid-off 500 management positions, and a lay-off for a salaried worker means a full end of job there is no getting called back there is no continuation of benefits you are just politely shown the door and unemployed. When the labor costs are that high there is nothing left to manage - what was management supposed to do exactly? Just charge higher fares and have empty planes? The unions always blame management, but then ask union leadership what should be done differently and you quickly realize they have no idea how an airline even works much less how to run one - most pilots cannot even define CASM or RASM, and equate load factor with profitability when that is far from the truth. Then you have the issue that most management positions are not airline industry specific - an accountant can be an accountant at any company, an engineer at any company - why should someone give up higher pay to do their job in the airline industry especially when the unionized workforce is not only completely dependent on doing their job within the airline industry but has no respect for the job management does. I have yet to see a pilot even know what revenue accounting even does much less how an airline actually manages to go and collect the money for the tickets that have been flown, yet pilots will always blame management. How often do we hear “when the plane is full”, well wtf does that have to do with profitability? Nothing. A pilot of FA screams we should not end a route because the plane was always full, but they cannot even define yield much less know what the yield was on a route. The attitude of always blaming management for union contacts that become unaffordable is what keeps dooming airlines. The pilots at Pan Am were the single highest cost, same as the pilots at AA, DL, UA, and WN are today the single biggest cost for each company. Scream all you want about compensation, but the pilots are the ones taking the huge compensation when management salaries are far below industry standard and are today - most management positions at UA, DL, AA, and WN even today pay less than $100k. Look at the recently negotiated contracts at all the big 4 - pilots and FA’s can still receive medical benefits even if they don’t work one hour the entire month - no one in management at any of the big 4 has such a perk. When the contract is unaffordable the airline suffers, and the only remedy is bankruptcy court because only in bankruptcy court can the airline throw the contract out and start over (you cannot have a contract with a bankruptcy entity - as soon as the airline files for bankruptcy the union contract ceases to be enforceable).
I’m a 70yo Veteran and Retired Pilot who Lost any Pension Years Ago. I’m Barely Surviving on Social Security here in North Carolina. I’m Originally From NYC but I Can’t Live There….. It’s too Expensive. So I don’t see my Children Much Anymore.. if anyone Has any idea of what I should do And where I could go please let me know.
Home boy basically saying “I have a concept of a plan”. I know this dude got his money a while his plan sucked ass and drove the company into the ground
I’m a 70yo Veteran and Retired Pilot who Lost any Pension Years Ago. I’m Barely Surviving on Social Security here in North Carolina. I’m Originally From NYC but I Can’t Live There….. It’s too Expensive. So I don’t see my Children Much Anymore.. if anyone Has any idea of what I should do And where I could go please let me know.
Rest in peace, Marty. I believe you did not die of a stroke but of a broken heart.
I kinda wanna joke and say "Gee I really hope that works out for them", but seriously I wish more business leaders would be that frank and seemingly respectful of the staff. He seems to acknowledge that its the staff that makes it work, not the people in the corner office.
This is true. I really hope it works out for them!
They’ve always known staff is what makes it work but they don’t care. It’s about the bottom line, bottom dollar.
was still smoke and mirrors. He knew they were doing bankrupt...
I applied to National Airlines multiple times in the late 1970s. Went to work for Southwest and two weeks later National offered me the job. I stayed with the then itty-bitty airline, whereas I would have been wiped out in the Pan Am merger had I switched. Very blessed to have retired after 34 years with Southwest.
A sober message along with some motivational talk. Did Pan Am ever do those airline refurbishments? From what I've read, the planes were looking rather shabby in Pan Am's final years.
PanAm fue la pionera en operar el B_707 y 747 lo lógico en los 80's hubiera ocurrido lo mismo con el B_757, 767 pero no ocurrió era un reflejo de comienzo de la caída de la compañía
I come from a long ago PA family. My father was with PA for 35+ years, and I started there in 66 before moving to EA/CO/UA later.
Flying PA in the 60s and early 70s was always great, service and aircraft were the best. In the later 70s into the 80s I didn't get to fly PA at all, but in 87-89 flew them several times.
I took them on such routes as MIA-HOU/MIA-LAX/DFW-MIA even MIA-ATL when naturally they were not the big carrier on the route, but just out of some kind of loyalty I guess, and to give them a shot. Pretty much all the flights were not great, the F service was ok, but nothing exceptional, coach was not poor, but routine. What was clear was the aircraft were tired and old, and the crews were not happy (to be expected). It was a small sample, but probably reflected what was going on. I saw the same kind of thing at EA at the time, you knew there wasn't any long term hope.
Really was a disappointment.
El mejor reflejo de como funciona una empresa es ver la actitud de empleados y Panam en últimos 4 años no era lo mísmo de antes ya había perdido algo de brillo
At 11m46s, a clip at the gate appears to show an aircraft named “Clipper Employee Pride”. I’ve compiled an exhaustive list over 25+ years of aircraft names from company records and aviation sites, but this one is new to me.
And then there was Locerbie
That was 88 right?
Fascinating. Does anybody know what confrontational tactics were used at the other airlines he mentioned?
I'm assuming he's mostly referring to Eastern. Borman had been forced out and Lorenzo was in the process of basically gutting the airline to prop up his other airlines. He'd eventually lock out the mechanics and trigger a bunch of sympathy strikes, leading to Eastern's bankruptcy.
This is also the Carl Icahn era at TWA. Corporate raiders were buying these airlines and sucking out as much as they could before they went under.
I flew PA in First Class between LAX to JFK in 1986. It was sad to see the end of PA approaching...old and ratty aircraft. I wonder if the cabin refurbishment proposed in this video took place. ✈️✈️✈️
This is right before Lockerbie. The beginning of the end for Pan Am.
El fin ya había comenzado en 1978 con la famosa desregularizacion de mercado aereo de estados Unidos donde las demás aerolíneas 🇺🇸 ya podían volar a todo el mundo simplemente PanAm no supo adaptarse al cambio cuando le tocó competir
they all in the end blame labor and labor costs for their failure to manage they take HUGE compensation to run the airline in profit but you did not do your job so you should be FIRED
Management means every salaried or non-union position. As Marty mentioned they had already laid-off 500 management positions, and a lay-off for a salaried worker means a full end of job there is no getting called back there is no continuation of benefits you are just politely shown the door and unemployed. When the labor costs are that high there is nothing left to manage - what was management supposed to do exactly? Just charge higher fares and have empty planes? The unions always blame management, but then ask union leadership what should be done differently and you quickly realize they have no idea how an airline even works much less how to run one - most pilots cannot even define CASM or RASM, and equate load factor with profitability when that is far from the truth. Then you have the issue that most management positions are not airline industry specific - an accountant can be an accountant at any company, an engineer at any company - why should someone give up higher pay to do their job in the airline industry especially when the unionized workforce is not only completely dependent on doing their job within the airline industry but has no respect for the job management does. I have yet to see a pilot even know what revenue accounting even does much less how an airline actually manages to go and collect the money for the tickets that have been flown, yet pilots will always blame management. How often do we hear “when the plane is full”, well wtf does that have to do with profitability? Nothing. A pilot of FA screams we should not end a route because the plane was always full, but they cannot even define yield much less know what the yield was on a route.
The attitude of always blaming management for union contacts that become unaffordable is what keeps dooming airlines. The pilots at Pan Am were the single highest cost, same as the pilots at AA, DL, UA, and WN are today the single biggest cost for each company. Scream all you want about compensation, but the pilots are the ones taking the huge compensation when management salaries are far below industry standard and are today - most management positions at UA, DL, AA, and WN even today pay less than $100k. Look at the recently negotiated contracts at all the big 4 - pilots and FA’s can still receive medical benefits even if they don’t work one hour the entire month - no one in management at any of the big 4 has such a perk.
When the contract is unaffordable the airline suffers, and the only remedy is bankruptcy court because only in bankruptcy court can the airline throw the contract out and start over (you cannot have a contract with a bankruptcy entity - as soon as the airline files for bankruptcy the union contract ceases to be enforceable).
PanAm or Pan Am?
Either way is good!
I flew on Pan Am in February 1987 on a trip to the Bahamas.
I’m a 70yo Veteran and Retired Pilot who Lost any Pension Years Ago. I’m Barely Surviving on Social Security here in North Carolina. I’m Originally From NYC but I Can’t Live There….. It’s too Expensive. So I don’t see my Children Much Anymore.. if anyone Has any idea of what I should do And where I could go please let me know.
If Pan Am had the technology we have today back in those times.... Pan Am could have become very successful. He seems so angry on a side note.
They tried.
@5:50 A SOLITARY connection to the island of Ireland ... to Shannon airport. 😅
I hope Pan Am can live again like before
Lo intento en el año 2020 pero proyecto de resurrección nunca progreso
747 jumbos just too big to fill
To big to fill and decades before "too big to fail" corporate bail-out plans on the backs of the American taxpayers.
El año de su cierre 1991 tenía muchos jumbos difíciles de llenar así era imposible continuar actividades
How sad
Wonder how that turned out…..
I know they really tried to make a solid plan to keep the airline in business
Home boy basically saying “I have a concept of a plan”. I know this dude got his money a while his plan sucked ass and drove the company into the ground
First comment thankyou
winner
Please select your prize.
Is That Frank???
I’m a 70yo Veteran and Retired Pilot who Lost any Pension Years Ago. I’m Barely Surviving on Social Security here in North Carolina. I’m Originally From NYC but I Can’t Live There….. It’s too Expensive. So I don’t see my Children Much Anymore.. if anyone Has any idea of what I should do And where I could go please let me know.