Wrexham & MLS the debate we didn’t see coming. Will we see Promotion / Relegation in the U.S.A.?
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- Why are fans arguing between Wrexham & MLS?
Promotion and Relegation may come one day, today is not that day.
Where we can find the great stories in Major League Soccer.
As a Wrexham fan, I want to thank all fans from North America for your support.
It will help us get back into the EFL and will help us to become possibly a PL club within a decade. 🤞
What a lovely note... Godspeed, you are on your way to League 2, my guess League 1 shortly therafter. I am thrilled to see how its helping your town. Have a lot of Welsh fans from my rugby playing days
@@cubanhammer
This season, all the bottom half teams in the PL are only separated by a few points. Technically, everyone of them are fighting against relegation.
Everton took 3 points off Arsenal, because they need as many points as they can, in order to stay up.
This makes the top half of the table unpredictable. As Man City could lose points to teams like Nottingham Forest.
If Everton and Nottingham Forest are not giving their all, given there’s no relegation, then we don’t have to watch Arsenal vs Everton or Man City vs Nottingham Forest because we would know it’d be an easy win before even the match started.
The title race, and the top 4 race, and the top 6-7 race is so tough because every teams have potential to lose to a bottom half team here and there.
As a Gillingham fan, we’ll thrash you next season home and away 😅 Welcome to L2!
The US needs at least 240 teams before pro/rel can be a thing. It also needs to be regionalised into at least 4 sections. Then the play-offs would be like the UEFA Champions League with four regional leagues sending the top four in each. Each region having three divisions of 20 teams. It’ll take a long, long time. I support Gillingham in the fourth tier of English Football in League 2, despite this we still get 5-7k fans at our home games. Next year we’ll get promoted to league 1 after we were relegated last season. I’m sure as we have a new American owner with enough cash to do the job.
Lovely thing to say.. Thanks for checking out the video
For me, the big issue with MLS is that they always want to be a special case. For a decade or more, SUM let them live off of TV money from the USSF. When they get to say "We don't want to compete with EPL. Watch our inferior product because USA!!!!!" while also saying "Pro/Rel? Come on, that's an inferior product" every BS alarm in my head starts working overtime.
THERES GONNA BE A PARTY IN DETROIT NO ONES SLEEPING TONIGHT 🎉🎉
MLS should just add USL Championship Teams in a Promotion/Relegation System. MLS should just keep the same amount of Teams they have now the bottom 2 Teams at the End Of Season in each Conference Western and Eastern Conference which will make a total of 4 MLS Teams get Relegated to USL Championship and the top 4 USL Championship Teams should get Promoted to MLS 1st Division.
Will never happen because MLS is a totally separate entity from the USL... but regardless, I don't see how "promoting" minor league quality teams to the top league will improve the top league at all.
Unless that new team coming in is Chelsea, Manchester City, Real Madrid, PSG, etc. I don't see the point.
In Nations league it's 1 team going up. I think the 2nd placed team have a play off to move up. They are tied with Notts, but Wrexham have 2 games less played (6 points if they win both) that they can get in and increase their gap to 2nd placed Notts
Notts are actually 3 points clear of Wrexham, with Wrexham having 2 games in hand
You are correct.. That playoff game, if Wrexham are in it, will be a massive event.
Promotion and relegation helps keep the quality of soccer at its peak across the entire pyramid. It keeps lower division players hungry on that off chance that they might be noticed by a team a division above them, it also keeps those leagues alive because fans know that winning the table truly means something. It keeps the elite players on their toes because there’s an entire ocean of players beneath them fighting and training everyday to take their spot. If the English did away with their pro/rel in the long term the quality of their homegrown players would suffer.
It works for many reasons, these are all valid points. The money in the Premier League is getting absurd, and that may eventually change what happens at the top. I hope not, but...
@@cubanhammer The wide spread supporter rebellion that happened when the European Super League was announced, causing it to completely implode, must have made at least some absentee, hedge fund investing, oil rich, asset stripping owners have cold feet about it?
They consulted no one. The arrogance was staggering. When your own fans surround the grounds and obstruct the opposition, you, and your own team from entering on a match day, you know you are pissing off the wrong people.
Football must never be allowed to become a bunch of oil baron sheikhs playing a private game of meat-Subbuteo.
It's our heritage, and we don't like people fcking with it.
ESPN, Fox, etc have spent decades sabotaging domestic professional soccer. REASON: minuscule commercial time compared to the other major sports
As a Scottish Glasgow Rangers fan i have adopted my Celtic brethren Wrexham as my second club after watching the show
and i wouldn't count them out of getting to the PL, That's a good 10 year journey for sure but everything surrounding the club is making it possible
I think they will move up a couple divisions.. 4 jumps would be a miracle and a lot of $$$. Don't see it, unless they bring in some heavy financial hitters.
@@cubanhammer The hardest one to get out of would be the championship you are talking about defo
what they have done so far is a miracle already but the out of the box things happening for the club are drawing interest all over the world
Rob and Ryan are not your typical owners and have connections and influence that can attract money, players, investments and opportunities
I know 10 years is a long shot but miracles can happen
@@bigstevie1690 Ryan and Rob are specia, likeable and know what they are doing. Ahead of the FA Cup game there were doing hits for ESPN, CNN etc... Most clubs/leagues could only dream about having them on board
only first place is automatic promotion. places 2 to 7 are in a playoff for the second promotion spot
This is a bad mistake to not know this information if your going to discuss Wrexham. It’s seriously hard to get out of that league.!
They tried suggesting that European Super League and look at how quickly that got shot down with teams not being able to join in or get relegated. They can suggest it, but having the Premier League as a closed shop will never be sanctioned even if the clubs want it, the fans will fight tooth and nail not to let it happen. It would be detrimental to the sport and it would be detrimental to the English national team or any other country that tries it. Its a total no go.
Promotion/Relegation adds stakes and drama and that can be a difference maker here. There is no way the EPL will do away with that. It is part of the fabric and culture of the sport. When we get to 36 teams MLS should divide the league in two and give it a try.
I agree but I don't think you will ever convince any of the new owners in the US to put there clubs at risk for the sake of good sport. The system in the UK works so well but it has grown up in a time where money wasn't the most important thing.
@@shaunansell7352 Please see my comments above. EPL's "drama" is a delusion, as the same half-dozen teams win EPL again and again. Also completely inaccurate to say that money doesn't control the outcome in EPL: Five of the six teams with the highest payrolls are among the seven who have won the EPL championship since the modern league's founding in 1992. Which team has the highest payroll? Who else: Man United.
@@shaunansell7352
"I don't think you will ever convince any of the new owners in the US to put there clubs at risk for the sake of good sport."
You shouldn't need to convince them. The USSF, not MLS owners, are supposed to have the power to change the American league system.
One of the things that really killed the Super League for European fans, apart from the obvious destruction of over a century of tradition and history, was the omission of any form of relegation. We love that playing badly all season comes at a horrific price and the idea that no matter who you are, you can over time rise up to become the greatest. It also makes the end of the season scrap to avoid the drop so entertaining, as much as the scrap at the other end of the table to win the title.
Takes time to build (fan base). 100% agreed. I'm a lifelong football fan and played a bit. In my 30s I lived near DC and had season tickets from day 1, in 1996 to 2004 when I moved. I kept wanting the change to come quicker. In 2010 I was worried about the league until the amazing resurgence. It's amazing.
When you stop to think about it, pretty insane how this League has come...Still a long way to go, but there is some light at the end of that tunnel.
Certainly on a good trajectory. We are good my friend. Thanks for checking out the OG.
Wrexham played in what is now the Championship - the second tier of English football - for many years so that is a reasonable target within the next decade. Many Championship sides would be interested in Paul Mullin, admittedly as a third or fourth striker in their squad.
What gets me is, Promotion/Relegation seems like such an American thing. It is a pure meritocracy. It's a relentless fight to earn your place in the league. Where any team, no matter how humble, can aim for the very top. It's the American dream.
Your closed shop idea exists only to console poorly performing club owners so that they can continue to pay the staff on their luxury mega yatchs.
Lost every game this year? Never mind, your contracts are safe. See you next season..
It is socialism, but the kind that benefits billionaires.
The contracts of the players and coaches of that last-place team are *not* "safe" however... the team itself may stay in the top league (as it should), but that luxury is not afforded to the people actually *responsible* for on-field results - the players and coaches.
This silly idea of kicking out the entire team for won-loss records only serves to hurt the paying fans, who never once participated in any of the team's defeats...
Why should they be punished by being asked to follow their team in an inferior league for something they didn't do?
@@davepazz580 The owners get to stay in the league, though! That's my point.
That ''silly idea'' you talk about (preferred in every other country in the world that has enough teams to support a league system) keeps lazy owners on their toes.
Your first argument is that it's unfair to the players.
Really? Why are they going down? Because they were the worst team. A fact tested on the field all season. Seems fair to me.
What about the top team of the league below. If they can beat the team at the bottom of the league above them, how is it fair to them NOT to promote them up to take their place? What about THEIR players?
Your second argument seems to be that the fans would be upset if their team got relegated.
Well boo fckin hoo!! Welcome to sport, you entitled babies.
Also, the fans of a UK soccer team are known as ''The Twelfth Man''. Support in the stadium is important to results and if they stopped going to games just because their team is losing, they are not real fans and share the blame for their team's decline.
NFL fans would probably just pick another team to follow, especially as US teams are franchises that represent their owners, not any given town or city. That is unknown in UK sport where club loyalty is compulsory.
Keep your protected system, where laziness and sucking are rewarded. We'll keep our ''silly system'', where teams have to prove they are good enough every single season. You will never know the joy or the pain of it, and that is your loss.
@@davepazz580
The owners are ultimately responsible for the team results....
@@FootballBamberger Yes to some degree... however, it doesn't change the fact that punishing the fans for a last-place finish makes no sense
@@davepazz580
"it doesn't change the fact that punishing the fans for a last-place finish makes no sense"
You focus on the punishment of relegation, but don't mention the reward of promotion.
Winning your league and not being able to promote to the next, to me that's worse than the punishment you're talking about.
Why wouldn’t Wrexham be able to make it into the Premier League? Assuming the new owners can get the club to League One or the Championship, they can use the notoriety and momentum to sell a stake in the club to a third - much richer investor and the extra funds would help them improve their stadium, players, and infrastructure.
You might say that Wrexham’s population wouldn’t be able to support a premier league team. But in this day and age - stadium ticket sales are a fraction of Premier League revenue which mostly comes from TV rights, sponsorships, and merchandising.
Once in the Premier League, they would be a massive once in a lifetime kind of Cinderella story and that would push their merchandising to new heights globally.
There are many, many more potential professionals that have grown up playing this game here in the state of Alabama. The lack of professional opportunities in proximity to Alabama has played a major role in preventing these talents from being discovered. It isn't as simple as those players not existing. Chris had to move to Texas as a teenager just to play for Texans SC, not even FC Dallas. USL has been a massive help to players in this area. It has spawned the first sustainable pro team in Birmingham after many other attempts have failed. Would promotion/relegation have fixed all of these issues? Absolutely not. But for the smaller teams that exist in areas like Huntsville and Mobile, I don't see how it wouldn't be beneficial for them. In those areas, too many people are driving 3 or more hours to watch the 1st division pro team that is closest to them because they don't have much desire to watch semi-pro or 2nd division pro soccer. That COULD (not saying it will for certain) be helped by an open pyramid.
I wanna hear/see more about the Alabama soccer story.. So do many more in this country I am positive of it. Honestly, what you just said sounds as interesting as what is happening at Wrexham. Being a definitive American story also adds to it. Perhaps we can get the bottom of the pyramid working in Pro/Rel circles. The top needs to cook a little more.
A big point missed as to why Wrexham hits home for so many is that their supporters (similar to every EFL/English club) are working class. The show paints the picture very clear that their loyal supporters are working tough, rugged jobs and that Wrexham is their escape from it all. MLS is a middle to upper class league, based on its supporters paying $50+ for tickets, $20 for parking and $15 for nachos at the concession stands. I've been to Prem matches in person for half of what it cost for me to see my local MLS side play. It's not to say working class individuals don't watch/attend MLS matches but everything from the kits costing $100+ to the marketing suggest it's rather a rich mans, not poor mans sport
people are giving Wrexham attention b/c it's a great story, and the show is good. Sure, they have famous owners that are putting big money (for the league they're in) into the team. And frankly, if people are paying attention to ANY kind of soccer here in the US...that's a good thing. I've really enjoyed watching Wrexham games....and I'll enjoy to watch some MLS games as well. I don't know what the issue is. I don't live near a MLS team, so it's tough to REALLY get into it.....
We don't have a football league we have soccer sports entertainment. We will never be without pro/rel
The relegation battle in the National League is more compelling than winning an MLS Cup (and my team has won two of them)
As far as pro/rel in MLS goes, I think it’ll take maybe 10 years without expansion investment in the league so that owners feel more stable if it happens at all. The thing the league can do now IMO is to loosen some of the regulations and let teams spend more freely
good idea, i think we also need to combat youth pay-for-play so that more young athletes have the opportunity for soccer
There will never be Pro/Rel unless the MLS controls all the teams in the 2nd tier.
I used to think the same way but I now know it will NEVER happen. At least not as long Don Garber is in charge. It is pretty obvious they are worried about the growth of USL. So much so that they made a new league to take out all the reserve teams from there and put them in their new MLSNP league. At least that's what they will tell you that's why that league exists but the truth is they rly made it to take away potential expansion cities away from the USL to try to slow their growth. MLS has already taken away Huntsville, Jacksonville, Cleveland and Baltimore from USL those are all big coups. I like MLS my team is Galaxy but I also want the lower leagues to succeed and would love to see ProRel here but idk man it's hard to imagine it ever being a thing here.
MLS needs promotion and relegation like the rest of the world. The stakes are not big enough without that.
Your wrong about promotion and religation , religation battles are a huge draw as many are what we call six pointers and very well attended and have a huge impact on a season .
But you have to understand that some Americans love the idea of play off games, it’s just the opposite for Europeans they don’t like the play offs idea but love pro/rel. Americans don’t love pro/rel but Iove the play offs it’s just how it is
@@Dogowisdom605 if you want to battle it out in a cup style Playoff tournament you can make that happen for relegation as well. In Germany we have a tiny bit of that approach implemented. The 3rd last of the first league doesnt get automatically relegated but has to play against the top 3rd team of the 2nd league. So immediately after the season they play one match away and one at home and the cumulative winner goes up / stays up.
Im from the UK and i can tell you Max is right, relegation battles are only really a big deal in the last few weeks of the season, well unless one of the big boys is down there, you guys dont need that yet in the MLS, in the future maybe, but not right now
Max tends to be right about most things.
@@chancemiller9340 i disagree on some things but yeah ive noticed generally Max speaks a lot of sense, it's why ive subscribed, as far as the USMNT and MLS go, im an admirer from afar, you guys have come a long way, its nice to see, and i wish you the best for 2026 (unless you play England 😂)
I'm sorry but that's total utter rubbish. Fans of my club have been shitting it about relegation since October, it's all they are talking about on social media. We're 12th but in terrible form. I suspect you support some big six team and have never thought about it. For the other 80 something clubs in the league it is very real and certainly is a big deal from about game 11.
@@eagle_rb_mmoomin_418 not really unless your team is in the relegation zone, neutrals only really pay attention from about game 30 onwards, the US doesnt need ot yet, bear in mind that almost every town up and down the country has a team if you include non-league you're talking hundreds of teams, so for us pro/rel is necessary, i dont think the US needs it yet, maybe in the future, oh and to answer youre question, yes im a gooner, i assume youre a Palace fan, for what its worth i think you'll be fine this season
@@mrmr5580 my point exactly so you haven't had years and years of worry about relegation. It is entirely normal for fans of the other 86 clubs to have a relegation tracker going at the start of the season. For Arsenal fans it's can we win the league, why haven't we won the league in years what's wrong with us. Put some money in the club you bastards. That's not how anyone in the other 14 and below are thinking.
cause of West and East conference teams it's kinda interesting how you would add promotion and relegation as late as now
inauthentic Corporate culture down to the supporters groups in some cases = MLS vs. Wrexham and other community based clubs where the culture is authentic and built around the community.
Before we add promotion/relegation to MLS, the other non-MLS teams need start spending money and winning Lamar Hunt Cups (US Open Cup) first; show they can compete.
You should not get a boat load of money (promotion to MLS) for doing nothing (financially).
Rumour has it Wrexham AFC will tour the United States in June/July to play MLS teams.
#wrexhamfx
They should, it would be lucrative.. Would make sense from MLS side.. Those two entities should be friends.
Would love to see how Wrexham and MLS teams lined up.
You are so patient to take the time to explain this to the Euro Snobs who say MLS sucks. I've given up trying to explain that 2 + 2 = 4 to people who are just biased in their opinion and unwilling to even TRY to understand the history of our young league.
How about an NHL comparison?
English fans are different than American fans, and they'll never allow a closed Premier League.
Wrexham are Welsh! Welsh and English are two different cultural groups who inhabit Wales and England, within the UK.
@@WalesTheTrueBritons What League system do they play in? Certainly isn't the Cymru Premier...
Winner of the open cup gets promoted, if not an MLS team. Immediately raises to profile of the tournament and increases investment in lower league teams
I'll start with I know almost nothing about the MLS. But watching from Europe and wanting to see the US build up an attractive league system and give the world more great football experiences, I just want to say one thing: you will have to be ready to fight for it because the big team owners of MLS teams will lobby against relegation. With relegation on the table their businesses suddenly have a theoretical bankrupt option on the table. Even if they personally would prefer relegation being implemented it's a huge huge added business risk.
Anyway, I hope you can make it. With how professional USA takes their sports if they went all in on football this would mean innovation in tactics and a new level of athleticism in elite players.
Soccer is 100 years behind the NFL, NBA, MLB etc. I think the only way to market the game at a National level
Is to bring the game at the highest level to regional markets. Lets have cities like Waco, Tulsa, Omaha, New Orleans, Santa Fe, Etc. All have a shot to compete at the highest level and let the game have a spotlight through the country at different times
It's difficult because you have a closed loop system, those involved in the loop would never want to risk the financial damage that relegation can cause. Your only hope really is to have a system that has relegation without having severe financial damage to those who are relegated, perhaps having 2 leagues where the TV revenue profit is shared across both. In England being relegated whilst usually not being the death knell of a club, as many teams rebound hard, it can be damaging to lose quality players and TV money. At the same time I don't think you want relegation lite, the draw towards the end of the season in Premier League football comes from the drama of a club losing status and potentially a huge amount of money.
It is very complex. There’s a chance that soccer/football fans want a similar experience that others get around the world. American sports just aren’t built on the same foundation. The main issue is that there are not enough people that enjoy this MLS format for it to grow substantially. However, maybe some Wrexham friendlies could help the cause.
I've never been a soccer fan. I lived in England for three years and still couldn't get into it. Welcome to Wrexham opened my eyes to the sport. My wife and I love it now. The underdog story is the draw. MLS in my opinion does not have a "this is my team" feel. It seems as if MLS attempts to target an elite audience instead of the common man. If MLS modeled after the England system with relegation and smaller teams (they are all in major cities) the common person would be more vested. We watch Premier League all of the time now. I still have no interest in MLS other than the World Cup. Just my two cents. Thanks for the content.
Dave appreciate you checking us out... I am more and more impressed with the Wrexham project every week because of folks like you. To be fair, not a true underdog story as it stands. They are crushing people in that League. Relegation will improve MLS, but the big push in interest will come with loosening salary cap, bringing in better talent and creating some Super Clubs.. Thats what people want to see. Relegation games can get pretty stale, especially middle of season.
As a football fan, Welcome to Wrexham is strange confection… but I can say that the last episode is a masterfully constructed piece of TV, so maybe skip ahead to the end.🤓👍⚽️
I tried watching MLS when Gareth Bale signed for LAFC and I found it boring with a flat atmosphere. Even when Wales played against the US in the recent World Cup you could see the difference where Welsh fans had so many chants and songs to fall back on while the Americans were just singing USA USA. You guys are miles off Europe and South America when it comes to entertaining football and fans. The reason why people in your country are loving watching Wrexham is because they play very entertaining football and they have an established fanbase that has been going through 3 centuries of support meaning Wrexham supporters really care about the club and its been going on through generations of families.
It's worth noting that Nashville SC were a successful USL team prior to joining MLS, and the success of USL's Sacramento FC in last year's U.S. Open Cup has led to wide speculation that they will be the next MLS franchise. Considering that MLS is still expanding, it could be said that effectively we have a form of promotion going on; relegation comes in the form of franchises that have folded, although, with MLS's recent surge in popularity and profitability, fortunately we have not seen that side of the equation recently.
MLS fans are missing the mark so fucking hard with wrexham.
1. The English system is head and shoulders above the American one, there is no debate it is simply just facts. American teams (in all their sports) are franchises, if things are going poorly they can just pack up and move to a different market. The owners of these franchises would never agree to the possibility of relegation as in terms of business, it’s an incredibly risky thing to do. Teams in Britain and most of the world are intrinsically linked to the location that they are from. You can’t pick up wrexham afc and put them in London because $, the team is wrexham, wrexham is the team. All you have to do is look at the one set of sports in America that aren’t franchises, college sports. These teams/schools are part of the community and the area and you can tell the difference in the fan bases.
2. While in the short term MLS fans might want to throw all their toys out of the pram, this team and the show has done absolute wonders for the sport in the USA. While the eyeballs are far more focused on European teams right now, as the love of the game grows, the interest in the MLS is just naturally going to follow. The more MLS fans try to fight agains this, the higher level of disdain and disrespect will be put on the league.
3. For a country that exposes free market ideology, y’all really can’t see that consumers are simply choosing the better product. They do not have to support the American product simply because it’s American, they can support wrexham and the European model because that’s the free market for ya. MLS needs to do some self reflection and stop pointing fingers at leagues that are just simply a better product
On your third point, I don't understand what you mean by "y’all really can’t see that consumers are simply choosing the better product"... this is a concept everyone understands, and logically, hardcore Euro soccer fans in America will instead choose to follow Euro club soccer week in and week out.
This isn't a shocking revelation... nobody here is expecting American soccer fans to support MLS out of some obligation, that's silly.
The only issue such fans have to contend with is you're basically stuck following your fave Euro club from afar, only to be enjoyed on a video screen of some sort... unless you have the means to keep flying to Europe multiple times every year (plus the occasional exhibition match on US soil), you're not going to get the "live" game experience.
Which is precisely what MLS does offer to the cities they are based in... and this is why the league targets "general" American sports fans, rather than wasting time with the so-called "Eurosnob" fans - the league understands this is where the real growth is over time.
Pro/rel in MLS is a tired debate. MLS will never have pro/rel nor should it ever have it. It is more likely Europe would ditch pro/rel than for MLS to add it. I don't expect Europe will soon drop pro/rel because it is part of the culture but the American system offers more stability and is far more lucrative. MLS is a fantastic product and the leagues ever accelerating pace of growth is frightening. Why do people keep acting like it needs to change?
Pro/rel is a weird obsession. It's just a mechanism. I'm personally agnostic towards it. I don't hate it. It does have an appeal in that it would allow an FC Alabama or an FC Iowa to exist. But it isn't like required and I don't know if it is even practical. This debate needs to die. It ain't happening soon or maybe ever.
MLS is absolutely not going to implement pro/rel at the top levels of the US Soccer pyramid, but I do have a request for the pro/rel crowd. Can you give me one example of a league anywhere in the world, at any time, that had a closed top tier at one point in time and then they switched to a pro/rel format? Name the league or the country and tell me the year in which that transition happened.
Let's have a look.
I'm a neutral to PL bottom of the table and I followed those matches. You are right, more so at the end. However, I follow the USL here (Rowdies local) and have absolutely no interest in MLS.
Three generations of my family played for Woking. Big deal for us to get to third. Wrexham did soo well to get promoted.
The Premier League will never be a closed shop. You can take that to the bank.
If it's any consolation I'm sure most Welsh people would rather have you go to the French Riviera or the Basques Country too 😉😊
The Premier League will not be able to make it a lockout at anytime despite the best efforts of some of the American owners. The whole thing in Britain is based on a meritocracy, it has to be, if there's no jeopardy what's the point? Everton has been a poorly run club for some time with £millions spent on players with very little to show for it, if they go down so be it. They will be replaced by teams anxious to stay in the Premier at all costs fighting in every game to remain in the top tier. This keeps the Premier league in fact all the leagues competitive, remember there are leagues below the National League so Wrexham could theoretically get relegated as well as promoted. Everyone in Britain and Europe understands this principle, in fact, it was the supporters furious backlash against the European Super league that caused immediate backtracking from the clubs involved. I think the MLS should use the British model under a centralised football association not just for the reason I have given here, however ,I won't go down that rabbit hole for now.
Agree you with 100%. Every sport should be meritocratic, otherwise its not an authentic sport.
@@mr.magpie9369 Yes, agreed
Nope the Premiere League turning in a closed league will never happen in Europe. Out of the reason it would be political socide. Instead of the US in Europe there are family connected over generations with a club. Some would die for their clubs.
To think it will happen can only said by an US person that hasn't experienced this connection.
Well Martin, I am indeed not English. I would say as Americans go, I know more than 99%.., Premier League part of my life for 27? years. Things are changing, and they are changing fast. While I don't think Pro/rel would go away, you would be naive to think that idea of closing top has not at least been tossed around.. There are fewer Eng/British owners, execs, managers, players and even fans tbh (in sense of overall % globally) in the English game. Let's circle back in 5 years. Appreciate you tuning in - Max
@@cubanhammer Does not matter. UK is not EU. They make their own laws with the Premier League and if a political party would allow the Premier League to be turned into a closed league it would be political suicide not to mention some politicians might have to fear for their life.
The UK has already implemented drastic rules if a team joins the Super League that was also the reason why the Super Leauge never happened.
If you think this is not possible well think again. The government can implement rules of hiring players from other nationalities, player visas, and even regulations to build stadiums and facilities. Good luck.
You will see that with time I think more and more US investors will go away from the Premier League cause the realize the market is saturated and you would need to invest so much more then it is worth without getting it back.
MLS needs to have a pyramid system like English and european soccer with promotion and relegation. All MLS clubs can just go through the motions and know they won't be relegated, the good thing about MLS is the wage cap.
Interesting that people are saying no one pays attention to the relegation battle till the last few weeks. These people are very wrong. If your club has a bad start to the season, you are staring at the bottom of the table after around 10 games, constantly working out how many points you've got, how many will keep you up, where you're getting those points from? It's like that for 30plus games
Everton fans are talking about it right now on game 2 of the season.
The relegation battle being watched by everyone that watches football
this sounded like an apology, are you sure you are not pro-billionaire?
The big 6 EPL clubs did try to break off and create a European Super League with no Promotion/Relegation. A closed shop..I didn’t happen because fans from not just other non-big 6 teams but the fans of Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City, Man U etc, all made it very clear in huge demonstrations and shirt burnings, that this would not happen. TV sports pundits, players and politicians in the House of Commons all condemned it and UEFA said they would all be banned from all UEFA and FIFA competitions. So no, it won’t ever happen here.
Need it for the NFL! Make the XFL the lower League.
Surely MLS USP can be promotion / relegation? It offers something radically different from other American sports.
But what would be the point?
@davepazz580 The point is that nearly every game has stakes. The fight to not get relegated is every bit as intense as the fight to get promoted.
As a Brit I can’t imagine how boring it must be to watch your sports nfl mls mlb no promotion or relegation, no competition at the bottom of the league
We feel the same way when we turn on county cricket.
As an American, I can't imagine how boring it must be to see the same half-dozen teams vie, year after year, for the Premier League title--usually decided well before the end of the season--while the remaining teams flounder. Teams like Wrexham tell themselves that they can be contenders for the PL championship, one day; history says otherwise, absent a massive infusion of cash (say, from a television show popular in the U.S,) to enable it to buy top players. In MLS, virtually every team IS a contender, every year; in Premier League, that belief is, with very rare exceptions, a delusion.
Wrexham on Hulu, is so much better than MLS
Tbf even your local team would be better to watch than the MLS. Not quality wise but atleast there’ll be some value to the game😂
All the way to the PL not gonna happen? you underestimate the stubbornness of Ryan Reynolds, who has himself set this as his goal and he is not the giving up type. He has what it takes to get them there, believe it or not. His partner Rob, the honorary Welsh, will also do whatever it takes, since he is just as crazy. many argue that they don't have the money but i think they do, they are just being smart about it, not throwing money around, keeping things real. They don't want to end up like Red Bull where prizes just go up by them having a interest in something or someone. Trust me, after the promotion, they will bring in players other teams wont be able to get, like Hoffenheim did in germany 06/07 with the then 21 year olds Salihovic and Janker joining from 1st division teams dropping down 3 leagues and they went up right away and then, they got in the young brazilians to take them up even further... today, Hoffenheim is a stable in the 1st tier of german football, all the way from the 4th division within 8 years... If the SAP Boss can do that in Germany, Ryan and Rob can do it in England. Trust me, 10 years from now, Wrexham is going to play Premier League.
I absolutely and unequivocally *HATE* the notion of “super teams”… so depressing to be a fan of a regular team and only see championships shared between 2-3 teams.. awful.
Promotion-relegation is completely UNnecessary given the financial pain the relegated teams suffer, plus the MLS has an extended playoff system that more or less accomplishes the same thing by penalizing NON-playoff teams from any playoff game rewards… the European and Latin American leagues have promotion-relegation because there are up to 200 professional soccer teams in many countries, and also these leagues do NOT have any league playoffs.. none.
Mind you, the only playoffs that exist in pro soccer are inter league between different countries, and even the champions league took queues from US pro sports leagues in their set up.. so *NO* promotion-relegation necessary!
European divisions have playoffs
@@grantmitchel
Which ones? NONE of the main leagues in Europe or South America have league level playoffs.. there are club playoffs between international leagues (Champions League and Copa Libertadores), but NO extended playoffs as in any US pro league..
@@sheldoninst oh you mean the top leagues?
@@grantmitchel
Yea of course. The lower divisions and lesser leagues many times serve as guinea pigs for FIFA rule experimentation, but even they rarely have playoffs.
closed systems just don't ultimately excite fans. The Super league was driven by a lot of US based owners. Fans in the UK went into full scale revolt. No one really wants a no risk/no drama league. That is MLS's problem. Until a way can be figured out to satisfy MLS owners and fans with a model that doesn't cripple a team on demotion but actually has incentive's winning a league AND crucially staying in it. The football pyramid absolutely has different issues like sustainability and ultimately some forms of regulation will be required.
Even using Richards as an example, he had to leave the US and come to Europe to develop. There's a cap on how well US players can develop in the US the whole football ecosystem is odd. There's no linkages between grass roots and the very very top.
No one mentions AFC Wimbledon. An unscrupulous owner moved Wimbledon FC out from London to a 'new' city. The stadium had long been lost. Something that happens in the US. The fans of Wimbledon a very old historic club banded together to create AFC Wimbledon. Over many years and promotions they achieved EFL League One status (two divisions above Wrexham) at the same level of the club that was ripped away from them. Currently they are in League Two. But that club has had a phoenix like rebirth to the point where they have now built a modern new stadium on the location of the original stadium. That's a fan owned club that again just like Wrexham could get themselves promoted to the Premier League. The reality for both club is that League one or Championship yo yo club is probably at a push the maximum they could do. Unless a serious capital injection occured. But the possibility exists and what we've seen with Championship clubs is they attract investment because of the premier league.
Why not MLS? It’s that simple: your system is about franchising.
Watching the Columbus Crew/Austin FC franchise movement event tells all. If the "product" isn’t successful in whatever city AKA "market" it'll moved to whatever other destination. No matter what. People hate that. So the "Wrexham - phenomenon" is all about people who want to identify with a club that is connected to a city and not to an ownership. Your "shareholder"-attitude is kinda embarrassing for all people who love that sport. And European leagues going the "American Way" failed miserably with the introduction of the "Super League" that imploded a few days after it has been made official.
Do you even understand what a European football club costs just to buy before investing 10 times what a mls team costs $5 billion for chelsea before investing and they can still be relegated for a bad season you do not buy a football club to make money you lose money no team in European football makes a profit appertaining from about 3 teams
The documentary is doing for wrexham what the ultimate fighter did for the ufc. If you want MLS to blow up a story needs to be told that people want to be a part of. Sport is about story and history. MLS has no history in the US.
You are right, there is very little history... You need to find other angles for storytelling, but you can come up with something. Time for creativity is now..
Agreed
MLS is too much like MLB with the minor league teams being farm Clubs for the major teams. EFL league, with the tiers and promotions/relegations makes it exciting as any team can rise up, year to year. Somebody also needs to consider doing an FA Cup type series with MLB teams, all the way down through the minors. Can you imagine the NY Yankees playing the Fredericksburg Nationals in Fredericksburg,VA? How fun would that be?
That's only good for the team coming up, but bad for league overall because they have to give up a team which will most likely lose its fanbase and simply follow another sport in town.
From the standpoint of how American sports leagues are run, it's a lot better to simply have every team in the top league and have them fight it out for playoff spots...
The Yankees vs the Fredericksburg Nationals would be like watching the Heavyweight champ vs. the middleweight champ... not much of a real contest.
America has American football we have Football. Makes it more exciting than American football or soccer.
Good by me..
Oooh this is a long discussion sir, I can't be bothered to type the criticism.
MLS is not end all be all. They don't represent every city or every community. USL covers the map better than MLS.
Mls needs some top players
Pro/reg makes every game count, MLS bottom teams play half ass all the time since their games don’t matter.
The J League is 29 years old and now has 3 divisions and 60 clubs in there 100 year 100 club plan. Now the Japan National team now becoming a soccer power. The hole MLS is in diapers is BS when you compare it with a nation where soccer was not number 1 and a league around the same age.
Max. Cmon man. What a downer of a video. What was the point again?
Sorry Max, I don't normally dislike videos but had to dislike this one. You're making a video referencing Wrexham but you haven't even finished the series. You admitted to watching relegation games towards the end of the season so it did draw you in to watch. You wouldn't have watched at all if there was no relegation. I support you either way. Good luck with AppleTV.
The ligamx might get relegation and promotion back which is cool
so the whole "no one watches the regulation battle til the last few weeks" is an odd thing to say since. thats the time of the year when it happens and you still watched. did you watch DC United last 3 weeks last season? bet not
The soccer season is 9 months long. Relegation battles are built like a season long grind for survival.. It's not, its bad footy for the season, minus maybe a couple highly strung weekends. its not making the game better.
@@cubanhammer which is why people keep tabs on those in and around the drop zones.ill watch the reg fights. I checked out of DCU as early as June last yr. It was abysmal
@@cubanhammer I’m a west ham fan. You mentioned you’re a west ham fan in this video. That was either a lie or just a massive overstatement to say you’re a fan. I have simply no idea how, as a follower of a team that has had year after year of relegation battles, you can say that you just turn in to the very end of the season to watch. Because of my love for my team and the bonechilling thought of having to watch them in the championship (AGAIN), I’ve watched incredibly poor sides every weekend hoping for something positive to happen.
Your opinion towards rel/pro is one that has come straight from the MLS corp and owners who are scared shitless of actually putting their money where their mouthes are.
@@cubanhammer Sorry this is a batshit bollocks take, and indicative of everything that is wrong with the MLS.
How does Wrexham compare to MLS teams?
Inferior
Miles behind them.
rubbish
another American not doing his homework regarding promotion, only the top team is promoted directly, the 2nd to 7th fight it out for the second slot.
top 2 teams dont get promoted 2-7 have play offs
Yeah I'll just stick to Wrexham. Thanks tho.
Uk just passed a law so that can never happen in the uk are game is based on pro/rel
I saw a Swedish team (Hammarby) went to play against Seattle FC, and Hammarby won :P Just want to let you know that Hammarby only have won Allsvenskan (the Swedish league) once. Dunno where Seattle is placed in MLS, but to lose against Hammarby cant be fun. Next time play against AIK, best Swedish team if you dont count with the half danes Malmö..
Why can't they go all the way Luton have just done it they were non league not so long ago
This is the difference between well seasoned professionals who can provide educated information compared to some youtubers who just simplify certain topics because they don't have much idea about how things work. Comparing 27 year old MLS to 100+ years European Leagues is just not fair or realistic.
So sad! You dont like it.. so stop commenting about wrexham it will only waste your time..focus on mls..thats more your jam..
Respect that show, guys and club a lot. Happy its out there. Thanks for checking out the video
Not really enjoying the company line on this one. I agree that it probably won’t happen because of the owners financial interest… But it is absolutely a be all end all for many fans in regards to raise the level of excitement. It’s kind of crazy to be so dismissive of it.
Max getting that MLS money will poopoo any pro/rel argument.
USL needs to begin pro rel and establish three levels. Let USL experiment and people will fall in love with USL. Not to replace MLS but to put pressure on MLS to open up.
Ruben, yesssss. This is the next step, start it with USL. Its naive for them to think that MLS, will just set up a soccer heirarchy with them.. Not happening. Get the wheels in motion in meantime.
Pro/Rel is an integral part of the game. Kicking a ball around on a pitch is not what we call football/Soccer. Losing and Winning to have tangible consequences is what defines this team sport. US Americans rather redefine the sport than face the challenge that is Football/Soccer. The rest of the world is just not American enough to get it 😂
Maybe MLS should stop moving teams around so they can build a fan base.
They've only done that a couple of times in it's 27 year existence...
You had NASL before the MLS. It isn't as new as you claim it is. FFS, you had Pele, Beckenbaur and George Best in NASL and still failed and this was over half a century ago.
Bad management, and over expansion,,and only a handful of Americans,,now ,u actually have American players playing big roles on their teams,,give mls 10 more years,and it will be a top 8-10 league in the world,,