It’s called a Decapod! How can we not want to know more? Something like that can’t be left hanging. Love the videos, love the idea of a Deapod steam train trying to compete with the “new” electric trains.
Would certainly be interesting. I thought the Decapod was actually technically successful - good acceleration - but it looks awfully heavy and expensive compared to the little 0-6-0 tanks that ran the line normally.
@@iankemp1131 I think that was the problem with the decapod: on paper it was successful and from a purely technical viewpoint it was successful. But... it also consumed far more coal than was reasonable and being so much heavier it absolutely hammered the track, meaning increased track maintenance costs. So, not so successful in practice. Had they sold it to the Midland Railway for use at Bromsgrove shed it would have done wonders as the Lickey Banker, but then we wouldn't have had Big Bertha.
I agree! But please don't merely recycle Wikipedia. With no leading or trailing wheels, the 0-10-0s were great at speed on the straight, but entirely unsuitable for the stated purpose. Fortunately, we did see what the Americans call Decapods, the magnificent BR 2-10-0 Class 9F.
I linked this to a Walthamstow Memories Facebook group, which will certainly attract a number of views. I was born and raised in Warfumstow and rode the Vic Line on the day it opened. The first automatic trains on the underground, if memory serves, although they have always used drivers to maintain passenger confidence. We had to wait for the DLR for truly automatic trains to be introduced, although I believe they also had a 'driver' standing in place doing nothing in the early days of the service. As an aside, the pub opposite the station, now named The Goose, wouldn't let the navies building the line use the pub because of their muddy boots.
@@mickeydodds1 Dont blame rappers for shortening the word whore to 'hoe'. The process is etymology. Just because Americans use the word 'swag' more than the English, doesnt mean they invented it. Our old use of swag, pertaining to stolen goods, evolved to mean something valuable or something to show off, usually of high value. Dont think like an American; be English.
“One would go to Angel Road, God help us!” That busted me up.. then I ran it back and listened again and busted up again. Thanks, Jago, I needed that! 🤣
@@railwaydragon I imagine all it would have led to is an Out of Station Interchange with the new mainline station once that had replaced the original. Though I guess it could possibly have changed the way development in the local area happened thus making the replacement unnecessary...
The line does go towards Angel road but only to the Northumberland Park depot on the surface alongside the mainline station of the same name. If there was space, maybe a better connection would be there with a short passenger branch?
Yes, something on Decapod will be interesting, also the Spitalfields Branch and the connection at Whitechappel and the tunnel under Bethnal Green Bank, not finished, it would have run to Cambridge Heath.
“Stows before hoes”. Outstanding Jago. If often wondered why the Victoria Line stations, after 7 Sisters, were so bleak. Now I know. Not that the ones before 7 Sisters are much better.
All these Victoria Line videos have convinced me that Jago is trying to petition Sadiq Khan to do something about it. I'm not sure what but knowing what Jago's schemes are like. It cannot be anything but brilliant!
Living in South Chingford my Mum always took us on a bus ride to Leyton for the Central Line before the underground arrived at WC, it cheered my Mum up no end when the Underground opened at Hoe Street as she could visit London AND pop into the Market on the way back!
What does it mean please? I did not think Shernhall Street was replaced by Wood Street. It was a problem of land availability - I am not comletely clear but Walthamstow was not a town in the 1860's but a growing village suburb - the centre being at Vestry House - where the museum now is. Space was available to build at Shernhall Street right close to Vestry House and the school etc. Walthamstow's out of town growth had begun at St James street - now the bottom of High Street market and spread towards Hoe Street - but initially the railway coul not get land there in the end they did a land swap that gave them the railwaystation and the council as it became the Recreation ground between it and High street where the library and public buildings were situated throughout most of the 20th century.. Wood Street - gateway to upper class Upper walthamstow and Epping Forest was another growing area and a good place for rail traffic freight and passengers to join/exit - but is fairly close to Walthamstow Central and even closer to Shernhall Street at the top of Valentin road -- it was just good sense to build there and at Hale End.
The passenger services history of the Chingford branch line is quite interesting, including 'the Jazz service' in 1920 running at 5 minute intervals and a wartime frequency of 10 minutes (unlike todays 15 minute frequency). From 1897 to 1966 all-night services ran! If only we had this now.
Being a child of Blackhorse Road and growing up on Walthamstow I always wondered as a kid why the tunnel wasn’t extended to Wood St. After all these years to find out that it had been planned in some way makes me feel happy that my pondering almost was a reality! Keep up the good work on the video’s.
Loving the maps and diagrams, really helps make it more understandable, especially if not from the area! Thank you for going to the additional effort of doing them, I think its very much worthwhile!
Yes please, do a video about the Decapod, described in O. S. Nock's book, British Locomotives of the 20th Century, as the sensation of the day. Nock refers to the Decapod as a tank engine, but it had no external signs of water tanks.
It was a well tank with the water mounted low down rather than in side tanks. Capacity was probably pretty low, so frequent refills might well have been needed.
@@iankemp1131 It did cross my mind, but well tanks such as the famous Beattie design are marked out as well tanks, rather than just tanks. Thank you for confirming.
@@Rog5446 I wasn't sure initially, but the Wikipedia entry does give the Whyte classification as 0-10-0WT, and I couldn't see anywhere else where the water could go :)
Remember the underground opening as a child in Walthamstow we used to bunk on the underground when the ticket collector went for tea or a pee then spent a few hours traveling the tube on to the circle line going round and round then back to Walthamstow I was about 12 years old Happy Memories, Keep safe Jago and Thank you.
Fascinating. The Underground definitely learned the lessons from the failings of the Victoria Line, that it's no use building a fast and super frequent line if the stations can't cope with people getting on and off the trains, as it's the stations which then restrict capacity. Unfortunately it costs a FORTUNE to expand underground stations and try and provide them with more circulation space, and is incredibly disruptive on the surface, as shown with the upgrades to the likes of Kings Cross, Victoria, Tottenham Court Road and Bank
So if the station capacity doesn’t keep up with the capacity of the line then there’s no point in have loads of trains because stations just can’t cope? Who would have thought……..😂. I mean…..why did the Underground even have to “ learn” this lesson ? It’s blooming obvious to a school kid. They knew alright……it was just politics and funding issues getting in the way of common sense. Wouldn’t happen in Japan and other places that believe in just doing things right the first time.
As someone who's lived in Walthamstow all their life, I'd love to know the location of the Shern Hall St station. Also, my father was part of the construction crew for the Walthamstow-Blackhorse Rd section (and had a rather nasty accident during it).
Jago, the Decapod is a must. Tests showed it did have the desired acceleration but due to weight restrictions it never took off.the Jazz services as they were knowing of Liverpool Street were handled by the N7 locomotives from the 1920s till November 1960. They had great acceleration and braking and all the trains were air brakes unlike most others that used vacuum brakes. These locos lingered on with the North Woolwich to Palace Gates service along the L1s until September 62 when Stratford shed 30A,closed to steam. Followed by the closure of the Palace Gates branch on 7h January 1963.
I'll get straight to to the point: I watch your videos because I find all trains interesting, I enjoy the way you phrase things and use the English language - and also for staying anonymous! You are the uplifting solution to my dreary winter mornings. (Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery...).
Route diagrams help a lot but maybe a current diagram with overlays for comparison would help even more. A blue line with a station doesn't do it for me 😁
Spent a good year commuting daily to Uxbridge from Walthamstow - that was a fun ride! Yes entering the tube at Walthamstow did feel like sneaking in through the back of someone's garden shed.
Certainly believe that the Walthamstow Central overcrowding situation would be eased had the line continued to Wood Street. They’d have at least one less passenger at Central, me - as Wood Street is much closer than Walthamstow Central for me
Yes please to the Decapod. Something similar has happened in Germany where they turn over regional services for a week to steam locos working DMU or EMU schedules. It's called "Plandampf". Thus you get huge express locos accelerating like stuff of a shovel with a mere 4 silverfish carriages then dropping the brake for a rapid deceleration every 5 or 10 minutes. Hope it's survived COVOID.
Surprised they never thought of building a tube station next to it depot at Northumberland Park and run a service that way with possible extension to meridian water in future.
I used to live in chingford and used the Victoria line daily. Loved it! I could always rely on it to get me home. It was also state of the art for its day.
Never been to Walthamstowe myself, I need to go there. Lots of interesting sites and walks there according to walking UA-camr John Rogers who resides nearby.
Even with the addition of the new entrance for the bus station Walthamstow Central never really felt like a terminus station. When you look at other stations there was always something a little grander even if it were done cheaply. Here they threw something utilitarian up and "meh that's ok". A rebuild I feel is sorely needed. If we did get Angel Road, and Wood Street as Terminii I doubt the line would be able to cope, Look at the issues the Northern and District Line has in regards to their branches... As for the "stows before hoes" thanks for making me cackle like a maniac on a crowded bus...
There were plans to extend the Victoria Line from Walthamstow Central to Chingford but now you got London Overground operating to Chingford from Liverpool Street via Clapton. And there were plans to extend the Victoria Line to Woodford and to Hainault via using the loop via Roding Valley & Chigwell. But Central Line operates the loop between Leytonstone and Woodford via Newbury Park.
I agree, I would of also liked the line to be connected to Stratford as it's the new 'Central London'. I know 97/257 goes there. Right now to connect to the Central Line via Victoria Line you would have to go all the way to Oxford Circus and then change over.
I grew up in Walthamstow this was of especial interest: thank you Jago. I wish I could have had "Stows before Hoes" as my school motto. My Dad worked in the City before WW2 and during the National Strike, along with many other City workers, he had no option but to walk along the tracks from Hoe Street station to Liverpool Street and back every day - unthinkable now, of course. Dad hated the change from what he regarded as the reliable steam trains to the new electric ones in the '60s, which seemed to break down very regularly. When the Victoria Line first opened, the interchange at Blackhorse Road between the Victoria and what was then the Barking - Kentish Town line was at first across Blackhorse Road itself. When, many years later, I went to go from the Victoria to the now Overground station, I found myself standing on the kerb and looking across to a blank wall where the station used to be. I had completely failed to notice the entrance to the new Overground platforms. Yes please, I'd love to know more about the Decapod!
Given the amount of passengers who only exit Walthamstow Central as far as the Overground platform to Chingford, I should think an extension to Wood Street would have been very welcome - although then you'd have people waiting at Wood Street for trains to Higham's Park and Chingford.....
When the line first opened Pimlico station did not exist of course; even the extension to Brixton opened without it. There was however a non-Interchange station even when the first section, Walthamstow to Highbury, opened. Blackhorse Road was shown as having no Interchange despite the BR station being just a short walk away. Only when that station w as closed and replaced by the present one closer to the Victoria Line one did it become an Interchange on the map. Just fifty or so years ago the Victoria Line did not exist, or at least was not open. It has always been a busy line, so how did the rest of the network cope without it in those days when even less people drove cars in London than do today? There is of course one open air station on the Victoria Line, or at least there was, I don’t know if it’s still used; Northumberland Park Staff Halt.
A seemingly casual comment has me mentally going through my long-departed childhood book collection - was it in Tuplin I saw a photograph of a tiny James Holden (with large beard and hat) standing in front of a massive ten-coupled locomotive, 'built to prove theoretical acceleration'? Yes, please, to an insightful, thoughtful, honest and wonderfully written documentary on the decapod (yes that sounds like a lot to ask, but it's the ridiculously high bar you've set for yourself. And we appreciate it very, very much).
@@iankemp1131 ... yes, that's the one I remembered! Belated thanks for checking your copy of Tuplin, it's been four decades since I picked up a second hand paperback and after this many house moves, I've no idea where or when it went. Holden looks even smaller than I recalled...is that my age showing? Best wishes.
The NYC,C&O,and B&O,all had 0-10-0's,used as hump switchers,or heavy duty flat switchers for coal yards,and other onerous operations,and the bulk of modern switchers were 0-8-0's,derived from the USRA,[WW1 designs,under MacAdoo],the closest British design,was the Southern Railway USA tanks! The GWR also had a derived design in the 1500 pannier tanks,done by Collett,and you can add the SR wartime 0-6-0's,as really modern engines! Bullied and Gresley foresaw much of the now,modern era,as they went outside the box! Thanks for another interesting video,and yes,do a video on the Decapod,it will be interesting 👍! Thank you,as usual,for your diligence and persistence!!
Chingford girl here. (Or for four years during the 80s anyway.) I have very fond memories of 'Walfamstow', and very bad memories of travelling through Kings Cross a few months after the fire and being told to open my eyes because the Victoria line platform /wasn't/ a burnt out wreck. (Living in London in the 80s was like living in a building site next to a bomb site. Which, tbh, was probably the result of postwar regeneration being underway. My dad actually worked on the North Circular and showed it off to us one night after a good dinner and almost got us arrested by driving onto his /own/ construction site at a random time of night.
Walthamstow Central is located in what is basically the town centre of Walthamstow. Wood Street is literally in the middle of nowhere. Not necessarily but you get what I mean. It's like making the Bakerloo line terminate in a little alley after Elephant And Castle.
I find the view at 07:30 irresistibly charming. There’s just something cozy about the hodgepodge of the old and new station on the same platform, with the houses in the background coming right up to the station. Like a small countryside oasis left in the bustling city.
Me living in Walthamstow is fine the station sometimes gets a BIT overcrowded but the corridor to the trains is quite big so there is enough space for a lot of people
I drove the tunnel boring machine from the main site on Ferry Lane, it was in a sports ground next to the Ferry Boat Inn. Chas Brand & Son was awarded three contracts on the Victoria Line. Euston Station, Seven Sisters that shared the main site on Ferry Lane and the section Ferry Lane to Hoe St. The section I mostly worked on, the TBM hit a sand pocket and running sand engulfed the machine and yards of tunnel. Works were put in place to freeze the ground, the Ferry Lane was closed except for a bus service that terminated both side of the treatment area, passenger's had to walk pass and board a continuation bus. I then moved to the station tunnel shield that built the two platform area's of Blackhorse Road, Hoe Street and on the other contract section of Seven Sisters. Wages for a miner in those days meant I could have bought a brand new Mini each week, eat a steak breakfast every day and keep my local landlord smiling.
I suppose against a background of usage being stagnant at best we are lucky the Victoria Line got built at all, but the minimalist standards have lasting problems. Narrower than usual platforms on some stations north of Kings Cross. Two escalators only where three would have been expected leaving no redundancy for faults and no rush hour extra flow. Pimlico even as a new build with only stair access part of the way to the street. Connections where it can be quicker to go up to the street and back down (Green Park and Victoria pre recent improvements). At least the cross platform connection at Oxford Circus wasn't value engineered out
I lived in Walthamstow for 20 years. I am sure I read somewhere that the station in Walthamstow was originally going to be at the junction of High Street, Hoe Street and Church Hill, then go on to Wood street.
There were two tramway arrangements affecting Walthamstow. First of all the Lea Bridge, Leyton & Walthamstow which originally intended to serve Leyton Station (GER) and Hoe Street, but ran into difficulties with the Local Boards. Act passed 1881 but the story was as complicated as many of the Underground machinations. The second lot were operated by the Walthamstow Urban District Council, but they classed their lines as light railways. It's worth mentioning W'stow was for yeard a 'posh' area but few realize that part of the Epping Forist came under the W'stow UDC. Chingford to 'Bakers Arms', Ferry Lane to Woodford and Markhouse Road to Higham hill were the routes initially, but a later route from Chingford to Stratford must have been a marvel for 1909. Just a digression.......
Walthamstow Central is the last stop on the journey from Stockholm to visit my family. It's a pity, for me, that the line didn't go through to Wood Street.
Did I imagine this…. Wasn’t there an idea that the Victoria line could have terminated at Woodford (maybe even via Chingford)? Damn, a Woodford to Walthamstow connection would be useful nowadays!
Another winner! Hard to see why Hoe St and Wood St were considered to need separate branches - they look to be in a perfectly reasonable line from Blackhorse Rd. For the other branch, Angel Rd makes no sense as a terminus but Waltham Cross, Enfield Town (via the old Angel Road to Lower Edmonton line) or even just Northumberland Park could have been good - better than the Seven Sisters turnback. It would have been hard to forecast in the 1950s/60s though, because Stansted Airport wasn't even envisaged and the track capacity problems on the Tottenham Hale-Cheshunt section would not have been foreseen. But even for the new Meridian Water station, one wonders whether a Victoria Line extension with the smaller footprint would have been cheaper and more useful than the third main line track - maybe a double line could have been fitted in!
"Let me know if that would be of interest"... Every time you ask that, EVERY TIME, the answer is a varient of the following; Yes, hell yes, and "Oh gosh, why did you have to ask? YES!"
Yes, a video on Decapod would fascinate. As you mention, it (and it was unique) was developed by the GE to counter an electric proposal that they could not afford, It set out to demonstrate to Parliament that a steam locomotive could accelerate a 300 ton train to 30 mph in 30 seconds. Having done this it was converted to a weird looking 0-8-0 tender freight loco.
Apparently, the 'kicker' which finally confirmed central government funding for the Victoria Line was that it would generate employment in the steel industry of the north east of England! The transport needs of Londoners was a secondary consideration.
The decapod was there to fight off rivals, but it didn't tackle the overcrowding. The GER painted the coach doors different colours açcording to class, so as to speed loading. At the same time they put headshunts at the ends of the platforms at Liverpool Street to speed round the turnround times for the trains. When the LNER took over they introduced new coaches on both the Liverpool Street and King's Cross inner suburban services. These were articulated so as to reduce the length of the train to get in more coaches. From Liverpool Street they were formed up of five coaches, known as quintarts,and from King's Cross in four coach sets, known as quadarts. The coaches were non corridor,with a door to each compartment. Down each side of the compartment there were full width bench seats. The idea was that the compartment could seat six people on each bench and six could stand down the middle, a capacity of 18 people to each compartment. At the outer end of each set was a guard compartment and small luggage space. The compartment next to this was labelled Ladies Only. The high density of Southern Electric suburban services is often, but I think these knock it into a cocked hat. If you're going to do a video on the decapod it might be worthwhile talking about these other methods the railway used to increase capacity.
'Decapod' sounds like some kind of lumbering dinosaur - which is probably what the prototype was! Those underground buildings at Walthamstow might be better described as of the public convenience style
There was a missed opportunity for the Victoria to reach Woodford or South Woodford via Wood Street. Did wonder if those proposals could have become much more such as a route from South Woodford to Thamesmead or from either towards Claybury Park within the Hainault Loop to Collier Row beyond (thereby relieving the Central Line - a few Central schemes did include an extension to Collier Row).
It’s called a Decapod! How can we not want to know more? Something like that can’t be left hanging. Love the videos, love the idea of a Deapod steam train trying to compete with the “new” electric trains.
A Decapod sounds like something from War Of The Worlds!! Tell us more, Jago!!!
Yes. Please make a video about the decapod.
Would certainly be interesting. I thought the Decapod was actually technically successful - good acceleration - but it looks awfully heavy and expensive compared to the little 0-6-0 tanks that ran the line normally.
@@iankemp1131 I think that was the problem with the decapod: on paper it was successful and from a purely technical viewpoint it was successful. But... it also consumed far more coal than was reasonable and being so much heavier it absolutely hammered the track, meaning increased track maintenance costs. So, not so successful in practice.
Had they sold it to the Midland Railway for use at Bromsgrove shed it would have done wonders as the Lickey Banker, but then we wouldn't have had Big Bertha.
Decapod, very Harry Potteresque. yes more please.
Decapod sounds like something out of Jules Verne - so yes please!
Yes, it definitely has a sea monster sound - I bet Captain Nemo had seen one!
Actually they are sea creatures - think crabs and lobsters…
@@allangibson2408
Oh, of course - that must be how I got the notion. Thanks.
I agree! But please don't merely recycle Wikipedia. With no leading or trailing wheels, the 0-10-0s were great at speed on the straight, but entirely unsuitable for the stated purpose. Fortunately, we did see what the Americans call Decapods, the magnificent BR 2-10-0 Class 9F.
@@allangibson2408 The plural of octopus is actually octopods. if the locomotive had 8 wheels it would qualify as an octopod.
I linked this to a Walthamstow Memories Facebook group, which will certainly attract a number of views. I was born and raised in Warfumstow and rode the Vic Line on the day it opened. The first automatic trains on the underground, if memory serves, although they have always used drivers to maintain passenger confidence. We had to wait for the DLR for truly automatic trains to be introduced, although I believe they also had a 'driver' standing in place doing nothing in the early days of the service.
As an aside, the pub opposite the station, now named The Goose, wouldn't let the navies building the line use the pub because of their muddy boots.
Was not prepared for the “stows before hoes” - my tea went everywhere 😂
With a name like Hoe Street, you knew he was gonna do SOMETHING with that.
Back to the days when it meant an agricultural implement, and not rappers' profanity.
@@mickeydodds1 Settle down , don't go upsetting Jago before he "pops a cap in your a%$e
@@mickeydodds1 In this case "hoe" likely comes from the Anglo-Saxon "hoh", meaning a sloping ridge. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Hoe
@@mickeydodds1 Dont blame rappers for shortening the word whore to 'hoe'. The process is etymology. Just because Americans use the word 'swag' more than the English, doesnt mean they invented it. Our old use of swag, pertaining to stolen goods, evolved to mean something valuable or something to show off, usually of high value.
Dont think like an American; be English.
I've noticed you're including more maps in your videos lately. Thanks ! It really helps me understand your videos.
Viewer: Thanks ! It really helps me understand your videos.
Jago: @0:42
😁
“One would go to Angel Road, God help us!” That busted me up.. then I ran it back and listened again and busted up again. Thanks, Jago, I needed that! 🤣
Then I go on to “Ya know, Stows before Hoes” I mean killin me 🤣🤣
A Victoria line station at Angel Road would have resulted in an interesting situation given the fate of Angel Road station.
@@railwaydragon I imagine all it would have led to is an Out of Station Interchange with the new mainline station once that had replaced the original. Though I guess it could possibly have changed the way development in the local area happened thus making the replacement unnecessary...
Yesterday I went on the jubilee line to baker Street and I saw some tourists freak out when the loud noise occured (in the tunnel)
The line does go towards Angel road but only to the Northumberland Park depot on the surface alongside the mainline station of the same name.
If there was space, maybe a better connection would be there with a short passenger branch?
Yes, something on Decapod will be interesting, also the Spitalfields Branch and the connection at Whitechappel and the tunnel under Bethnal Green Bank, not finished, it would have run to Cambridge Heath.
Another vote for a Decapod video. Fowler's Ghost would also make an interesting video.
@@visionsofhere3745 And Jago has provided (the former at least): ua-cam.com/video/LC9FbPF4DKw/v-deo.html
“Stows before hoes”. Outstanding Jago. If often wondered why the Victoria Line stations, after 7 Sisters, were so bleak. Now I know. Not that the ones before 7 Sisters are much better.
All these Victoria Line videos have convinced me that Jago is trying to petition Sadiq Khan to do something about it. I'm not sure what but knowing what Jago's schemes are like. It cannot be anything but brilliant!
Victoria line woes are part and parcel. Remember?
Living in South Chingford my Mum always took us on a bus ride to Leyton for the Central Line before the underground arrived at WC, it cheered my Mum up no end when the Underground opened at Hoe Street as she could visit London AND pop into the Market on the way back!
"Stowes before hoes!" Won't get this outta my head all day now lol
Walthamstow's official new motto!
Much easier to chant when you've already lost Wood.
What does it mean please?
I did not think Shernhall Street was replaced by Wood Street.
It was a problem of land availability - I am not comletely clear but Walthamstow was not a town in the 1860's but a growing village suburb - the centre being at Vestry House - where the museum now is. Space was available to build at Shernhall Street right close to Vestry House and the school etc. Walthamstow's out of town growth had begun at St James street - now the bottom of High Street market and spread towards Hoe Street - but initially the railway coul not get land there in the end they did a land swap that gave them the railwaystation and the council as it became the Recreation ground between it and High street where the library and public buildings were situated throughout most of the 20th century.. Wood Street - gateway to upper class Upper walthamstow and Epping Forest was another growing area and a good place for rail traffic freight and passengers to join/exit - but is fairly close to Walthamstow Central and even closer to Shernhall Street at the top of Valentin road -- it was just good sense to build there and at Hale End.
@@tolkny Most interesting insight on this area; Thanks!
At least someone confirms my fading memories of sixties Britain a mixture of make do and mend and cheeseparing on a national scale.
Not to be confused with Margaret Thatcher’s policies…
I'm in on a Jago Decapod vid. Paget loco would be great too. Conspiracy theories and then some there..
Ta.
"Holden" on to the thought of a vlog on the Decapod. I'm almost steamed up about it.
G'morning, Jago! Definitely do a video on the Decapod (Dekapod?)! I love episodes dedicated to engine types.
The passenger services history of the Chingford branch line is quite interesting, including 'the Jazz service' in 1920 running at 5 minute intervals and a wartime frequency of 10 minutes (unlike todays 15 minute frequency). From 1897 to 1966 all-night services ran! If only we had this now.
Yes please to Decapod!
Yes - can we have a video on the Decapod. The name alone deserves it...
Perhaps it was designed by a committee?
I agree with the other Anthony!
Being a child of Blackhorse Road and growing up on Walthamstow I always wondered as a kid why the tunnel wasn’t extended to Wood St. After all these years to find out that it had been planned in some way makes me feel happy that my pondering almost was a reality! Keep up the good work on the video’s.
Being left with a question has put me all in a quandary Jago. I didn't expect to start my Friday with a tricky decision to make.
Another wonderful "tale from the tewbe". Thank you.
You literally answer all my questions that I have about the tube
And answers questions I didn't know I had.
Loving the maps and diagrams, really helps make it more understandable, especially if not from the area! Thank you for going to the additional effort of doing them, I think its very much worthwhile!
I lived near Seven Sisters until lockdowns happened, so it's nice to see glimpses of it again.
Hard to believe
It's never nice to see anything in North London, I call lies on that statement. ;-)
@@paulchoccyt1303 Hahaha ;) With everything that went on around me in West Green, I can see what you mean!
Yes please, do a video about the Decapod, described in O. S. Nock's book, British Locomotives of the 20th Century, as the sensation of the day.
Nock refers to the Decapod as a tank engine, but it had no external signs of water tanks.
I just found that there's at least THREE volumes to that book!!! I'll be broke for a thousand years at this rate!!! 😂
It was a well tank with the water mounted low down rather than in side tanks. Capacity was probably pretty low, so frequent refills might well have been needed.
@@iankemp1131 It did cross my mind, but well tanks such as the famous Beattie design are marked out as well tanks, rather than just tanks. Thank you for confirming.
@@Rog5446 I wasn't sure initially, but the Wikipedia entry does give the Whyte classification as 0-10-0WT, and I couldn't see anywhere else where the water could go :)
Remember the underground opening as a child in Walthamstow we used to bunk on the underground when the ticket collector went for tea or a pee then spent a few hours traveling the tube on to the circle line going round and round then back to Walthamstow I was about 12 years old Happy Memories, Keep safe Jago and Thank you.
Fascinating. The Underground definitely learned the lessons from the failings of the Victoria Line, that it's no use building a fast and super frequent line if the stations can't cope with people getting on and off the trains, as it's the stations which then restrict capacity.
Unfortunately it costs a FORTUNE to expand underground stations and try and provide them with more circulation space, and is incredibly disruptive on the surface, as shown with the upgrades to the likes of Kings Cross, Victoria, Tottenham Court Road and Bank
So if the station capacity doesn’t keep up with the capacity of the line then there’s no point in have loads of trains because stations just can’t cope? Who would have thought……..😂. I mean…..why did the Underground even have to “ learn” this lesson ? It’s blooming obvious to a school kid. They knew alright……it was just politics and funding issues getting in the way of common sense. Wouldn’t happen in Japan and other places that believe in just doing things right the first time.
As someone who's lived in Walthamstow all their life, I'd love to know the location of the Shern Hall St station. Also, my father was part of the construction crew for the Walthamstow-Blackhorse Rd section (and had a rather nasty accident during it).
I suspect that it's the Ravenswood Industrial Estate, but I'm happy to be corrected if I've guessed wrong.
Jago, the Decapod is a must.
Tests showed it did have the desired acceleration but due to weight restrictions it never took off.the Jazz services as they were knowing of Liverpool Street were handled by the N7 locomotives from the 1920s till November 1960.
They had great acceleration and braking and all the trains were air brakes unlike most others that used vacuum brakes.
These locos lingered on with the North Woolwich to Palace Gates service along the L1s until September 62 when Stratford shed 30A,closed to steam.
Followed by the closure of the Palace Gates branch on 7h January 1963.
I'll get straight to to the point:
I watch your videos because I find all trains interesting, I enjoy the way you phrase things and use the English language - and also for staying anonymous!
You are the uplifting solution to my dreary winter mornings. (Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery...).
Is this the first video with route diagrams, or have I not being paying attention? In any case, bravo!
A Jago video with diagrams 😱 I was horrified at first, but I could grow to like it, I guess… 😅
Route diagrams help a lot but maybe a current diagram with overlays for comparison would help even more.
A blue line with a station doesn't do it for me 😁
He's doing quite well, but hasn't got his East and West sorted yet : @2:34
@@dukenukem5768 I noticed that spot, too.
Yes please, would love to see what you can dig up about the Decapod!
Spent a good year commuting daily to Uxbridge from Walthamstow - that was a fun ride! Yes entering the tube at Walthamstow did feel like sneaking in through the back of someone's garden shed.
What route did you take?
@@mbrady2329 Victoria to Kings Cross, Circle to Baker St, Metropolitan to Uxbridge
Certainly believe that the Walthamstow Central overcrowding situation would be eased had the line continued to Wood Street. They’d have at least one less passenger at Central, me - as Wood Street is much closer than Walthamstow Central for me
Bring on the Decapods, please!
There's a Decapod Street in Stratford, presumably close to where the Decapod was built.
Yes please to the Decapod. Something similar has happened in Germany where they turn over regional services for a week to steam locos working DMU or EMU schedules. It's called "Plandampf". Thus you get huge express locos accelerating like stuff of a shovel with a mere 4 silverfish carriages then dropping the brake for a rapid deceleration every 5 or 10 minutes. Hope it's survived COVOID.
Surprised they never thought of building a tube station next to it depot at Northumberland Park and run a service that way with possible extension to meridian water in future.
I used to live in chingford and used the Victoria line daily. Loved it! I could always rely on it to get me home. It was also state of the art for its day.
I live in walthamstow and honestly this video put a smile on my face. Great to know about the history of my everyday commuting
Very informative I used to live in Highams Park until 1966 but now live in St.Thomas Ontario Canada 🇨🇦. Keep up the good work please.
You intrigue me with your mention of the Decapod.
Never been to Walthamstowe myself, I need to go there. Lots of interesting sites and walks there according to walking UA-camr John Rogers who resides nearby.
Also a remarkably good pie and mash shop at the end of the High Street market :)
Thank you for adding the maps to your video.
I enjoy the videos and the dry humour. Thank you.
Even with the addition of the new entrance for the bus station Walthamstow Central never really felt like a terminus station. When you look at other stations there was always something a little grander even if it were done cheaply. Here they threw something utilitarian up and "meh that's ok".
A rebuild I feel is sorely needed.
If we did get Angel Road, and Wood Street as Terminii I doubt the line would be able to cope, Look at the issues the Northern and District Line has in regards to their branches...
As for the "stows before hoes" thanks for making me cackle like a maniac on a crowded bus...
A crowded 34 going through Deadmonton?
There were plans to extend the Victoria Line from Walthamstow Central to Chingford but now you got London Overground operating to Chingford from Liverpool Street via Clapton. And there were plans to extend the Victoria Line to Woodford and to Hainault via using the loop via Roding Valley & Chigwell. But Central Line operates the loop between Leytonstone and Woodford via Newbury Park.
I wish the Victoria line had an extension to Whipps cross hospital and possibly to the central line too. It would be very useful
I agree, I would of also liked the line to be connected to Stratford as it's the new 'Central London'. I know 97/257 goes there. Right now to connect to the Central Line via Victoria Line you would have to go all the way to Oxford Circus and then change over.
I grew up in Walthamstow this was of especial interest: thank you Jago. I wish I could have had "Stows before Hoes" as my school motto. My Dad worked in the City before WW2 and during the National Strike, along with many other City workers, he had no option but to walk along the tracks from Hoe Street station to Liverpool Street and back every day - unthinkable now, of course. Dad hated the change from what he regarded as the reliable steam trains to the new electric ones in the '60s, which seemed to break down very regularly.
When the Victoria Line first opened, the interchange at Blackhorse Road between the Victoria and what was then the Barking - Kentish Town line was at first across Blackhorse Road itself. When, many years later, I went to go from the Victoria to the now Overground station, I found myself standing on the kerb and looking across to a blank wall where the station used to be. I had completely failed to notice the entrance to the new Overground platforms. Yes please, I'd love to know more about the Decapod!
Given the amount of passengers who only exit Walthamstow Central as far as the Overground platform to Chingford, I should think an extension to Wood Street would have been very welcome - although then you'd have people waiting at Wood Street for trains to Higham's Park and Chingford.....
When the line first opened Pimlico station did not exist of course; even the extension to Brixton opened without it. There was however a non-Interchange station even when the first section, Walthamstow to Highbury, opened. Blackhorse Road was shown as having no Interchange despite the BR station being just a short walk away. Only when that station w as closed and replaced by the present one closer to the Victoria Line one did it become an Interchange on the map.
Just fifty or so years ago the Victoria Line did not exist, or at least was not open. It has always been a busy line, so how did the rest of the network cope without it in those days when even less people drove cars in London than do today?
There is of course one open air station on the Victoria Line, or at least there was, I don’t know if it’s still used; Northumberland Park Staff Halt.
That is so interesting, I never knew half of this stuff was planned! So glad you could shed some light on the history of the Victoria line in my area!
Great video! I am enjoying your Victoria line kick. I would enjoy hearing about the Decapod. What a peculiar name for a steam locomotive.
I'd enjoy watching something on the Decapod steam engine. 👍
A seemingly casual comment has me mentally going through my long-departed childhood book collection - was it in Tuplin I saw a photograph of a tiny James Holden (with large beard and hat) standing in front of a massive ten-coupled locomotive, 'built to prove theoretical acceleration'?
Yes, please, to an insightful, thoughtful, honest and wonderfully written documentary on the decapod (yes that sounds like a lot to ask, but it's the ridiculously high bar you've set for yourself. And we appreciate it very, very much).
Quite correct! Just looked in "British Steam since 1900" and it's the final photograph.
And now we can all see this exact picture in Jago's video on the Decapod! ua-cam.com/video/LC9FbPF4DKw/v-deo.html
@@iankemp1131 ... yes, that's the one I remembered!
Belated thanks for checking your copy of Tuplin, it's been four decades since I picked up a second hand paperback and after this many house moves, I've no idea where or when it went. Holden looks even smaller than I recalled...is that my age showing?
Best wishes.
The NYC,C&O,and B&O,all had 0-10-0's,used as hump switchers,or heavy duty flat switchers for coal yards,and other onerous operations,and the bulk of modern switchers were 0-8-0's,derived from the USRA,[WW1 designs,under MacAdoo],the closest British design,was the Southern Railway USA tanks! The GWR also had a derived design in the 1500 pannier tanks,done by Collett,and you can add the SR wartime 0-6-0's,as really modern engines! Bullied and Gresley foresaw much of the now,modern era,as they went outside the box! Thanks for another interesting video,and yes,do a video on the Decapod,it will be interesting 👍! Thank you,as usual,for your diligence and persistence!!
Chingford girl here. (Or for four years during the 80s anyway.) I have very fond memories of 'Walfamstow', and very bad memories of travelling through Kings Cross a few months after the fire and being told to open my eyes because the Victoria line platform /wasn't/ a burnt out wreck. (Living in London in the 80s was like living in a building site next to a bomb site. Which, tbh, was probably the result of postwar regeneration being underway. My dad actually worked on the North Circular and showed it off to us one night after a good dinner and almost got us arrested by driving onto his /own/ construction site at a random time of night.
Decapod? Oh most certainly yes!!!
Cheers from Nova Scotia 🇨🇦
Greetings from Lunenburg, N.S. Where you at?
@@davidyoung5114 Enfield :)
Walthamstow Central is located in what is basically the town centre of Walthamstow. Wood Street is literally in the middle of nowhere. Not necessarily but you get what I mean. It's like making the Bakerloo line terminate in a little alley after Elephant And Castle.
“Stows before Hoes!” That got a light morning chuckle from me!
Thanks for the latest fine video about the complex gestation of the Victoria Line. I'm fascinated to learn more about the Decapod locomotive.
I find the view at 07:30 irresistibly charming. There’s just something cozy about the hodgepodge of the old and new station on the same platform, with the houses in the background coming right up to the station. Like a small countryside oasis left in the bustling city.
Yes yes yes, that Decapod is intriguing and promises good entertainment too :)
Thank you for the quality content and the chuckles!!
Spot on.Very good how you put this video together
Thank you very much for replying to my comment. I would love if you could take a quick look at my page and any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Perhaps a Christmas-time entry? Dec-A-Pod with clouds of steam...fa la la la la, la la la la!
As I always say: "If something about a mass transit route doesn't make sense, you can bet your ass somebody made a ton of money off it."
They’ve planned too small for Walthamstow. And now they’ve created oversized monster at Ealing Broadway- lessons learned
"On average, the stations are big enough." - Yes, lesson learned 500 percent. 🙁
Me living in Walthamstow is fine the station sometimes gets a BIT overcrowded but the corridor to the trains is quite big so there is enough space for a lot of people
Decapod, Decapod, DECAPOD!! 😜 Yes please!
Is true the track will bend?
Hi Jago. Great video! Good to see the humour back.
I drove the tunnel boring machine from the main site on Ferry Lane, it was in a sports ground next to the Ferry Boat Inn. Chas Brand & Son was awarded three contracts on the Victoria Line. Euston Station, Seven Sisters that shared the main site on Ferry Lane and the section Ferry Lane to Hoe St. The section I mostly worked on, the TBM hit a sand pocket and running sand engulfed the machine and yards of tunnel. Works were put in place to freeze the ground, the Ferry Lane was closed except for a bus service that terminated both side of the treatment area, passenger's had to walk pass and board a continuation bus.
I then moved to the station tunnel shield that built the two platform area's of Blackhorse Road, Hoe Street and on the other contract section of Seven Sisters. Wages for a miner in those days meant I could have bought a brand new Mini each week, eat a steak breakfast every day and keep my local landlord smiling.
Never mind the tube station the bus station has been rebuilt twice i think. A review of the Walthamstow Corporation Trams would be interesting
I suppose against a background of usage being stagnant at best we are lucky the Victoria Line got built at all, but the minimalist standards have lasting problems. Narrower than usual platforms on some stations north of Kings Cross. Two escalators only where three would have been expected leaving no redundancy for faults and no rush hour extra flow. Pimlico even as a new build with only stair access part of the way to the street. Connections where it can be quicker to go up to the street and back down (Green Park and Victoria pre recent improvements). At least the cross platform connection at Oxford Circus wasn't value engineered out
Should I make a video on the Decapod???
Hmmm let me think... YES!!
GE fan and born on Walthamstow High Street. Good video and Decapod? Yes please.
_Decapod_
A locomotive running along on ten little feet sounds like something Terry Pratchett might have thought of.
You've just reminded me of Luggage. And if you're familiar with the covers of Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels you'll know what I have in mind!
@@Thomas828
Exactly; that's the link. Cheers :)
I lived in Walthamstow for 20 years. I am sure I read somewhere that the station in Walthamstow was originally going to be at the junction of High Street, Hoe Street and Church Hill, then go on to Wood street.
There were two tramway arrangements affecting Walthamstow. First of all the Lea Bridge, Leyton & Walthamstow which originally intended to serve Leyton Station (GER) and Hoe Street, but ran into difficulties with the Local Boards. Act passed 1881 but the story was as complicated as many of the Underground machinations. The second lot were operated by the Walthamstow Urban District Council, but they classed their lines as light railways. It's worth mentioning W'stow was for yeard a 'posh' area but few realize that part of the Epping Forist came under the W'stow UDC. Chingford to 'Bakers Arms', Ferry Lane to Woodford and Markhouse Road to Higham hill were the routes initially, but a later route from Chingford to Stratford must have been a marvel for 1909. Just a digression.......
"Stows before goes" classic Jago 🤣🤣
Brilliant maps! Love it.
These videos are fascinating and very informative
Walthamstow Central is the last stop on the journey from Stockholm to visit my family. It's a pity, for me, that the line didn't go through to Wood Street.
Did I imagine this…. Wasn’t there an idea that the Victoria line could have terminated at Woodford (maybe even via Chingford)? Damn, a Woodford to Walthamstow connection would be useful nowadays!
Another winner! Hard to see why Hoe St and Wood St were considered to need separate branches - they look to be in a perfectly reasonable line from Blackhorse Rd. For the other branch, Angel Rd makes no sense as a terminus but Waltham Cross, Enfield Town (via the old Angel Road to Lower Edmonton line) or even just Northumberland Park could have been good - better than the Seven Sisters turnback. It would have been hard to forecast in the 1950s/60s though, because Stansted Airport wasn't even envisaged and the track capacity problems on the Tottenham Hale-Cheshunt section would not have been foreseen. But even for the new Meridian Water station, one wonders whether a Victoria Line extension with the smaller footprint would have been cheaper and more useful than the third main line track - maybe a double line could have been fitted in!
A video on the Decapod? Ten times yes!
A Decopod????Yesss pleassssse
Such a cool name for a train 👍🏻
"Let me know if that would be of interest"... Every time you ask that, EVERY TIME, the answer is a varient of the following; Yes, hell yes, and "Oh gosh, why did you have to ask? YES!"
ooo this one is gonna be exciting for me, i lived in Stow for 30 years!
Yes, a video on Decapod would fascinate.
As you mention, it (and it was unique) was developed by the GE to counter an electric proposal that they could not afford, It set out to demonstrate to Parliament that a steam locomotive could accelerate a 300 ton train to 30 mph in 30 seconds.
Having done this it was converted to a weird looking 0-8-0 tender freight loco.
Apparently, the 'kicker' which finally confirmed central government funding for the Victoria Line was that it would generate employment in the steel industry of the north east of England!
The transport needs of Londoners was a secondary consideration.
In winter, the wind on the escalators at Blackhorse would turn it into a white horse.
Brilliant video - I laughed out loud several times!
I used to live at Walthamstow, about 16=17 years ago. I didn't recognise the streets around the station *at all*!
We NEED to know more about the Decapod!!
The decapod was there to fight off rivals, but it didn't tackle the overcrowding. The GER painted the coach doors different colours açcording to class, so as to speed loading. At the same time they put headshunts at the ends of the platforms at Liverpool Street to speed round the turnround times for the trains.
When the LNER took over they introduced new coaches on both the Liverpool Street and King's Cross inner suburban services. These were articulated so as to reduce the length of the train to get in more coaches. From Liverpool Street they were formed up of five coaches, known as quintarts,and from King's Cross in four coach sets, known as quadarts.
The coaches were non corridor,with a door to each compartment. Down each side of the compartment there were full width bench seats. The idea was that the compartment could seat six people on each bench and six could stand down the middle, a capacity of 18 people to each compartment.
At the outer end of each set was a guard compartment and small luggage space. The compartment next to this was labelled Ladies Only.
The high density of Southern Electric suburban services is often, but I think these knock it into a cocked hat.
If you're going to do a video on the decapod it might be worthwhile talking about these other methods the railway used to increase capacity.
1:51 - one of my friends works for the TFL Incident Response Unit he might even be in that vehicle!
'Decapod' sounds like some kind of lumbering dinosaur - which is probably what the prototype was! Those underground buildings at Walthamstow might be better described as of the public convenience style
There was a missed opportunity for the Victoria to reach Woodford or South Woodford via Wood Street. Did wonder if those proposals could have become much more such as a route from South Woodford to Thamesmead or from either towards Claybury Park within the Hainault Loop to Collier Row beyond (thereby relieving the Central Line - a few Central schemes did include an extension to Collier Row).
The first tube from Walthamstow, on a dark winter morning, is a special kind of grim.
Loved it u make it easy to learn about this subject