Freight Train Driver vs Passenger Driver - What is better? DAD RAIL VLOG 12
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- Having recently swapped from driving passenger trains to driving freight trains, I look at the pros and cons of each. Exploring issues such as shift work, learning new skills, freight train operations and of course my own opinions on whether it is better to drive passenger trains or freight trains.
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Thank you all for your continued support - Richard.
Dizzy, got your picture in :-) - Розваги
I remember watching a freight train passing through Altrincham station many many years ago, the driver looked about 40, shaved head, big fella, he was leaning out the window looking towards me as he passed slowly. I always thought that looked an ace job and paid loads as well.
Until you found out...... Otherwise... Lol
hi, my friend used to drive class 52s and 47s in the 1970s some times i would go along, great fun in those days.he also drove the class 117 dmus, they were great, like a semi automatic bus
Super video mate! I drive passenger trains and as much as freight driving looks more diverse and interesting, I love driving passenger trains for pretty much all the positive reasons you’ve listed here. Glad you love your freight career, though! Family forever 💞🚂
Thanks Mate. I think its a choice at the end of the day, and as long as your happy thats all that matters. I think the video was fair and balanced :-)
Looking forward to hearing your advice on preparing for an interview. I have enjoyed your videos to date. They are both entertaining and insightful. Thanks
Very well said at the end there, couldn't agree more!
Literally cheered out loud when I saw there was a new video!
Excellent video!! So happy to see a new upload. Watched it right away. Well done Richard!
Great video again.
Explained really well.
Keep'em coming
Rich 🥰🥰🥰.
Thanks for the videos. Looking forward to your next few. I’m a hgv driver at the mo but I’m looking to get into train driving as soon as something comes up in my area so the next videos will be a great help :)
Im so proud I finally know a train driver youtube that still uploads!!
Good to see a new video from you
This was very helpful. Thank you!👍🚂😀 I want to be a passenger driver when I leave school.
Once again, Thank you!
Nice video! I'm honestly still sticking to Northern rail or Avanti for now but at least I've heard the ups and downs!
That was a fascinating insight to train driving. It appears that there are a lot of similarities between train driving and flying aircraft.
never knew youd moved over, good to see another video
Go #TeamGreen 👍🏻👍🏻
Great to have videos back
yaaaaay dad rail is back 18 months plus please don't ever leave again for that long
Another very interesting video! Interestingly freight drivers always seem happier from my experience - I think that is probably reflective of their job satisfaction
You explained that very well! My papa sent a link to me for this video and I’m loving the channel already! You earned a subscriber!
Awesome! Thank you!
Literally seen one of your videos, one of the best channels I've seen!
Thank you :-)
Nice one Rich. Very interesting. Im just leaving the tools after 9 yrs of freight loco maintenance and depot driving to train as a mainline driver for a TOC. Looking forward to it.
I really love your videos. I’m an Indian guy living in America who drives trains in the UK on the Train Simulator, so believe it or not, all the technical information you provide is super useful. I do envy your job though so vicarious pleasure is my MO. Thanks for sharing all the info and hopefully one of your kids picks up your interest in trains. My 10 year old son has been fully ‘indoctrinated’ by his dad so we often have ‘father son train days’ where we rode the metro around Washington DC, the regional train to Baltimore, the light rail in Baltimore and finally return via Amtrak to DC. I find the signaling in the UK the most intuitive whereas that in the US with 1/2/3 aspect signals always has me reaching for the manual. Cheers!
Thanks for your comment. I watched a video about American signalling a little while ago. It does seem really complex! I hope I can get my sons to go out riding the rails with me
Great to see a new video! Great watch and as always, insightful.
Much appreciated!
Man, I love you, in a good way, not the weird way, it's just the way you come across as if you make these videos for me personally. That's a rare gift. I'd love to drive trains for a living, but at 58, I feel my best years are behind me now so I just enjoy watching vids like yours. I hope you keep making them. Perhaps do one from an enthusiasts point of view?❤😂😊👌👍👍👍
Great stuff as always. 👍
Thank you
It’s interesting how different people perceive what type of trains they would prefer to drive, as opposed to those they actually enjoy driving. For me, it was freight liners with 2 x 86’s was what I enjoyed, where as various EMU based passenger services is what I found myself working with. It is a different world now, with characterless trains and locos - I’ve done my time & happy to ;eave the new toys to the newer generation.
Looking forward to the 'becoming a train driver' series. Just applied for a local company to me, only at 1st stage and I am not sure what to expect so this will be most helpful!! Cheers for the great content DadRail
Steer clear of dB cargo,
Yes your back nice vid btw :)
More vid please
I'll try!
Ye are so lucky in the uk with rail freight here in ireland it's all gone bar a few timber and container trains
Nice Video. Thank you
There is a lot to be said for how fun freight is. I haven't worked on a train in my life but there is a pretty good game called Derail Valley, it's meant for VR but can be played without it too.
They haven't even added passengers in yet hahah
Fantastic video very interesting
Fantastic video I found it very interesting
Thank you very much!
Im looking at becoming a train driver in the near future hopefully, just waiting on the vacancies to come up. So looking forward for your videos on the path of becoming a driver! Awesome video by the way!
Thanks for your videos !!!. I've recently subscribed and really enjoy what i've seen so far !!!!. Can i ask please do you have a favourite class of freight loco to drive ??? 59, 66....maybe even a 70 or 68 ??? Any AC's like 92's, 90's, 88's or older 86's ???. many Thanks again and keep up the great work. I actually use your video's to get an idea of freight consists on my model railway especially the GWR main line . LOVED the class 59 vid Acton to Herne Hill. That was perfection !!!. Couldn't find part 2 though......
You got the best of both worlds! Has anything out of the ordinary ever happened to you whilst driving a freight train in the dead of night?
Very interesting video. I did 7 years driving passenger trains for SWT followed by 5 years with the green team. Wouldn't disagree with what you say in this video.
Nice to see a view of a train driver
I'm a trainee driver for the "Green team" on intermodal & currently halfway through my brake handling hours. I really enjoy freight & especially as I know what I'm working well in advance, which has supprised me!
I am guessing you are on intermodal?
@@DadRail yes I am 👍🏻
Thank you
Intresting vid! All my freight colleagues wanna come back to my passenger depot lol guess it depends on the company
Thank you. I can see why they would. Freight isn't for everybody.
Did your slightly less frequent upload happen to match up with your move from Pax to freight? (Not judging, just a potential observation) Your videos always feel open (as much as is appropriate), honest but fair to your understanding. As someone who's dream is to one day drive trains (though I am aware of my own potential shortcomings so would almost certainly be happy in another hands-on role within the industry, anything that isn't an office) I really appreciate the insight.
Will you be discussing the current "climate" and it's effects on the industry? (No worries if not, just curious)
As in Britain, Australia has slowly moved away from diesel loco hauled passenger trains to multiple units. Australia once had long interstate passenger passenger trains, that ran overnight between the big cities.
Today only the Ghan & the Indian Pacific fit this bill. But they are infrequent & expansive (only serviced sleeping cabins). They are hotels on wheels not transport, & can be 2 locos, & over 20 cars long.
I assume driving them is rather like driving a freight train? Though they run @ 70 MPH, nothing happens quickly, stopping, starting etc.
In Victoria there are still plenty of trains with a 120 ton 2,200HP diesel (N class) hauling 3-6 cars, going to large rural towns. Though the limit is also 115 Km/H or roughly 70 MPH, with a reasonably high power to weight ratio these trains don't hang about after stops.
I sort of regard them as inbetween the modern DMU/EMU types for performance & a freight or long passenger train. The drivers of these short trains, don't stretch the train, when moving off. They bleed the loco brake as the train stops (smooth sailing). These trains get away like a DMU or slower (say early) EMU.
So while the modern trains are different. I guess driving a class 37, with 8 passenger cars was a bit like driving a short freight?
I, imagine Micheal Pailin's Confession Of A Train Spotter, today. The trains he'd take from Euston to Kyle Of Lochalsh would be very different today, from 1980. All those loco hauled trains are now multiple units. He only took railcars on one line, because he chose to get off the ECML for a little while (or maybe the director did? a little to much overacting too).
I'm a driver too, I work for the same company as you (Not naming names! Just trust that I know that I do!), at a different depot.
I had a 'discussion' with a passenger driver about the rostering. He couldn't understand how we don't know what we're doing a week in advance. It's a nightmare.
My depot has a 'roster' and I haven't followed it as it's written for about 2 years now. I'm yet to have a full week that follows it perfectly.
It's certainly dynamic - my choice of words is dictated by the open nature of this comments section :-)
I'm looking to become a train driver, although most companies only offer training to their current employees. I have an opportunity to join a freight yard as an apprentice track operative, but that will last two years.
The other route is working with TFL and then hoping to find a tube trainee driver opportunity. I've heard they come about much more often, pay more, are easier and I wouldn't be tied to an apprenticeship, which would be a better way to gain experience as an absolute beginner. But freight seems *much* more interesting. I don't know which to choose lol 😅
"You get to drive proper trains" enough said!
But you also get no free train travel or discounts, a lot of guards/revenue staff now will also not let you on if you just show your FOC pass. Your more secure on normal franchised passenger TOCs and have far better T&Cs.
It really depends on the definition of a proper rain. Fifty years ago it meant something with a smoke and dirt puking thing in front with a breakman on every single car trotting along at 20 mph maximum. No toss of a joystick, trickery of compressed air or mind blowing speeds of 40 mph, please.
@@jay-xo9dx Not really an issue though if you don’t travel on trains much. Plus in this day and age, you only usually get (unlimited) free train travel on your TOC only.
@@albusdumbledore1982 all TOC staff actually get 75% off on all other train companies as well (if not safeguarded), also a lot of TOCs are ran by big companies that run a few Tocs which allows staff to get free travel on them as well
@@jay-xo9dx Yes I know that as I’m a driver. But my point still stands that losing free travel isn’t an issue if you don’t travel on trains.
Possibly one or two ex SWT drivers we may both know! Small world. #railwayfamily!
Driving freight trains is really less stressful. You break too harshly once and the passengers come along and beat you up at the next station. Timber, scrape metal or dross doesn't mind. (wink)
Well I would say that being a freight train driver is better cos its probably be more stress free and less pressure compared to passenger driver because of you have peoples lives in you're hands and especially with the schedules you have to keep and you would definetly be under pressure to deliver but I think you might know what I'm on about?? Maybe
As for passenger operations, there are not many pacer drivers left as they all have to go by the end of the year, for better or worse.
Yep .Proper. One word, a world of difference. Now ,if we still had proper passenger trains, with engines on the front, that would,as they say , be ' a whole other ball of wax' . Drive a rusty coupler, and you'll drive anything. Pity about the shift times- if the numbers appear on a clock face, then it can be a start or finish time ! Finishing times are, as you've likely found out, purely notional. Hit 'em up !!!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on train driving. Watching other videos I have been impressed with the skill needed to drive a freight train. A question about brakes. The train has a line containing compressed air running the length of the train. Does that pipe supply air to each bogie? Have the bogie independent braking in case of failure in one of them? Does the loco have a separate braking system to the train? When you apply braking to the train do the loco brakes operate on the same system? I should be interested in your thoughts
The brake pipe runs the length of the train. If there is a break in it anywhere the brakes will apply. Fail safe. There is a straight air brake that is loco only and the auto air brake which is loco and train.
Thank you for your prompt reply. I still would like to know if the bogies on loco and coaches (wagons) are independently braked. Do they each have a separate reservoir and brake pipe?
You have a locomotive or direct brake that applies the locomotive brake only. This is only used during shunting and slow speed operations. The train or auto brake, will apply the brakes on the entire train and the locomotive. Most freight trains will be single piped, meaning that they have a single brake pipe throughout the train and no main reservoir pipe. Main Res pipe is not essential for braking, but more for operating on train equipment such as air powered hopper doors.
Very interesting video. Would definitely be interested to know the differences in route learning I know for partner trains there would be a few at this to learn but for freight do you send up having to learn the entire routes of do you just learn parts and do more driver changes along the way?.
Thanks, It depends on the route. Some freight drivers will sign the entire ECML or WCML for example. You may have driver changes on route, depending on the service requirements. In my experience freight route knowledge has to be to the same standard as passenger drivers
@@DadRail that’s true for the route knowledge with the braking points/zones for passenger services and the much greater range of freight drivers route knowledge, it all balances out in the end. I went the other way as the more consistent shift patterns and getting home every night on suburban rail becomes more valuable as you get older, I also wanted to become an instructor and there are more opportunities in a toc.
Drove passenger trains for 10 years and switched to freight about 18 months ago. It's a very different kind of job. The main reason I switched was I was getting tired of passengers. Driving a passenger train you spend as much time driving as you do arguing with passengers, answering questions about tickets and looking at doors opening and closing. In freight you're on your own. Not to mention in freight you drive a proper train, it's a craft. Passenger train you can be lazy and the worst that happens is you miss a platform or its an uncomfortable ride, be lazy in freight and you'll get stuck somewhere messing up the entire railroad for all nearby trains.
I agree with you 100% especially what you said about it being a craft. Much more skill involved when driving a freight train
About the schedules ... what about when some of the other drivers take time off sick, or bereavement, or whatever
For me? Freight all the way. I bloody hate passengers!
Freight trains. Is much fun (heavier trains, longer formations...) The funniest is braking (The brakes are slow and braking distance is a critical factor).
Agree with you 100%
I appreciate youve driven both but for me its high speed passenger work all the way. Theres far more night and weekend work on freight, plodding along at slow speed spending hours sat in loops would bore me, dropping a freight train off hundreds of miles from home and driving a van back to depot would not appeal either. I get that there’s more variety on freight but overall not for me.
Cant argue with that at all. Freight is not for everybody.
@Dad Rail I'm not a train driver but I had an interview with DB Cargo two weeks ago so I'm still waiting to hear back. I think I would prefer Freight. 20 years of customer facing roles I'm sick of it now.
Hey Rich I need advice with interview please. I've got one very soon.
I’ve driven freight in Belgium for 15 years now, also have a Netherlands licence and German boarders. Occasionally doing some wagon inspections too which is a nice change (in good weather), only driven passenger when doing special steam excursions. Remembering all the stations to stop at is not my cup of tea. Haha. Is there a big difference in earnings between freight an passenger in the UK? In Belgium as a freight driver I make about double of a passenger driver and get a company car. Passenger work is still state owned here, for a long time those boys stayed for job security but are now really looking over the fence as they wage gap has become ridiculous. Belgian railways tries to scare there drivers saying they’ll have to work harder for private companies. But the guys who made the change found freight more laid back due to the nature of the work.
Despite driving in multiple countries and getting to drive all sorts of traction, driving in the UK is my dream. My grandfather was on BR and my dad started there too before ending up in Belgium with the train ferries. But the UK network is something I grew up with and still feels like home somehow.
Not a massive salary difference. In fact some passenger guys have a better basic wage. In my experience though you can make a lot more money on freight thanks to the amount of overtime that is available. I know some freight drivers that earn over 100k. not sure they have much free time away from work though.
Hi there.
I'm new to your channel, and was wondering...
If one of your colleagues is off, sick, and there's no one else available, JUST YOU, but you haven't driven that particular route before,,, are you allowed to do the job on your own, or do you need someone like a 'spotter' in the cab with you, to supervise.?
I've always wondered if you NEED a route learning certificate or passport type thing, before you're allowed to drive a certain route by yourself.
I'd really appreciate it if you could either, msg me the answer, or better still, make a video on this particular thing. I'm sure many others would like to know what's what (or have you already made one.? As I said, im NEW here).
Love the vids
Keep'em coming
Rich 🥰🥰🥰.
Probably gonna do what you did, go for passenger trains driving, then if I want to, I’d change to freight, cus I’d honestly love to drive a 66
*That joke towards the end about freights being late due to passenger trains really cracked me up. By the way, I want to become a train driver at some point although I am crossing middle age now!*
Thank you for your prompt reply. I am particularly interested to find out if each bogie has an independent breaking system. I.e. A separate pressure cylinder and brake pipe so that if one bogie's brakes faile the other one would still operate.
I don't think so. On most if not all wagons, there is 1 brake distributor that works both bogies.
Thank you . Does that system apply on passenger trains?
@@davidcowie2462 the brake system is different on passenger trains, but from the passenger train I have driven, you could only isolate whole coaches not individual bogies.
@@DadRail Once again I am grateful for your advice. I look forward to your next video. They are a great source of interest for us old folk during lockdown!
I don't know if it's been mentioned, but as a Brit, the phrase "which is better freight or passenger" can only be completed with "only one way to find out.... FIGHT!!!!!" 😁
If you have a crew change along a freight route, say Essex to south Wales, what happens to the driver who has been replaced at, say Acton, or somewhere out in the sticks in the middle of the night?
It Depends, they could wait for another working going back to Essex, they may be booked a company van or hire car to drive back, or possibly travel back on passenger trains
So you would say freight pays more?
Great video! I've been torn whether or not I want to work on the railway professional or as a pass time. I've wanted to be a Train Driver since I was a kid so it's been a career choice for years. However, I signed up to volunteer on my local heritage line to work on the steam engines. Do I want to keep it as a hobby to go to whenever or do I want the thrill of rushing down the mainline and call it my job?
Question is, would you still enjoy it as much if it was your job?
I’d would tell you to avoid heritage lines until you are trained. (Should you join a company) You would be required to learn the current rule book and there are huge differences between that and the rule books used on heritage lines. And each line has variations of the old 1955 or 1972 rule book. You’ll get confused and that could lead to an incident.
With Freight train driving, would you have been told a couple of months before hand that you'd be a route conductor for the Ultra Sonic test train or would it have been the day before notice?
Normally, you will only find out the week before when the rosters are published.
@@DadRail ok thanks for the info.
On the short term contracts you mentioned for routes; how much time do you get to learn the route before you have to sign it?
Depends on how long and complicated the route is. It can be several weeks sometimes.
Dad Rail Ah I see, thank you
Running to time isn’t something a passenger train driver worries about, if you’re late there’s nothing you can do about it, if a manager asks you why it’s usually much later and you can’t remember anyway, if it’s straight away there’s usually a reason, if you need a toilet break then you take it and if it makes you late so what. One of the things that Richard doesn’t mention is that most passenger train drivers get home every night, that’s not true of freight train drivers, another is that while doing ballast you might sit for 9/10 hours without moving your train in the middle of nowhere without facilities or human interaction, it can be very boring, the final difference not mentioned is that freight drivers usually work a 37hr week and passenger drivers only a 35hr week. Both have advantages and disadvantages; passenger drivers know their routes more in depth, freight drivers know longer and more varied routes; modern passenger trains fail very infrequently, freight trains fail regularly; passenger drivers can plan their social life much better, freight drivers have to be more flexible; passenger drivers are heavily monitored and managed, freight drivers are more independent and generally less monitored.
Edit: I forgot another major difference in favour of passenger driving, freight trains are primitive, they tend to be uncomfortable, noisy, dirty and have no or poor quality air conditioning and heating, the difference between them and a modern EMU cab is like going from a sixties morris minor to a modern luxury car
You forgot about communication. Such as Freight communicating with base/signal/traffic control and passenger driver talking over the loud speaker to the passengers, unless that is only applied in passenger piloting with national/international flights.
Good point. In the absence of a guard it is the drivers responsibility to make announcements to the passengers. Both passenger and freight may have to communicate with the signaller so not really any difference in that respect.
Are the salaries similar?
I have an Interview with DB Cargo UK tomorrow.
Congratulations 👏 I'm in the assessment stage's one for freight and another for passenger
Can you do a video on what qualifications you need to become a train driver thx
its comming :-)
@@DadRail ok thx cant wait
I love trains
How does train priority go? Is Headcode number?
Generally a Class 1 train will be prioritized over a a class 2 or class 6, but it all depends on lots of factors. If a freight train is running late a signaller may decide to hold an on time passenger train to allow the freight to go in front. They will generally look at the bigger picture. If I hold the freight for the passenger, it has to follow the passenger train all the way and will be moving slower as the passenger train stops at stations, therefore it will loose more time. If I let the freight go first it will have a clear run an may make up some time. The passenger train will be late, but its booked to sit at X station for 4 mins so will get the time back. There is no simple answer, its generally whatever will create the least amount of overall delay.
Company I work for taken on few Pass drivers seemed to be be long conversion for freight did over75 hours train handling did you do many hours?. Daughter has gone from Freight to pass didn't seem to take long to convert , her main reason was job security 3 threats of redundancy plus a tupe in 4 years was enough to prompt moving over
I had to do 150 hours. I hope you Daughter is ok now.
@@DadRail Yes her jobs OK now the pass company's work different with the franchise system think there is more security . Round here freight seems to depend on few company's ,she was tuped over when we lost contract along with 30 drivers ironic thing is we won it back tuped drivers back . 150 hours is a lot considering your qualified main line already and well out of PQA period bet you didn't need it
Which driver has the most seniority on the GBRf Tonbridge seniority list?
I don't know im afraid.
@@DadRail And who is the funniest driver at GBRf Tonbridge?
I love Trains and I'm a train enthusiasts and I wanna Drive a train but I really want to drive a Passenger Trains and I wanna work for southern.
yes my man!
southern is epic
@Ironicpickle 247 I applied at SWR, GWR, Thameslink, Chilterns railway, DB Cargo Uk, Colas Rail and the Underground
Whichever i get first il take.
Is there an age-limit for driving trains? Thanks.
21 is the lower limit, I don’t think there is an official upper limit, but if you are approaching retirement companies maybe reluctant to train you as they won’t recover there investment
@@DadRail Thanks!
Probably freight trains, no passengers to cause problems ( ex Intercity Senior Conductor)
Well , I like passenger drivers but I also like freight drivers. But which is better there's only one way to find out . .. ...
Looks like, after much researching, i'm still the only trainspotter in global railway history to have had a diesel locomotive driver for a girlfriend, once upon a time. It was incredible. . . My plan worked, therefore dreams can come true :D
Wow lucky you :-)
I'm a passenger train driver of 30 years service here in Victoria Australia
Hello and Welcome.
On freight you forgot *blue team!!!*
Whats you opinion on signallers haha
Depends if I'm running on red or green signals :-)
I’m happy being a driver. I’ve only got one train to worry about and no bosses looking over my shoulder ;)
Who earns more freight or passenger
It depends on the individual companies.
@@DadRail intresting but how much does a freight earns
"Pacers are the expection"
Whilst watching this video, I’m getting ready to run a freight train from Albany, New York, US, to Montreal Quebec, Canada.
You’re making me jealous lol
Freight trains are by far the daddy of all trains and the best
From what I've driven so far id have to agree
Probably a freight driver, because you can blast a class 66 horn.
Or on the occasion ya get yer hands on a 37!!
Do like a good 37....!
@@dredfell37's Cold drafty noisy uncouth power delivery , makes class 66 seem a luxury and that's saying some thing but nice to see and hear though
After a few years in freight the noise and general grottiness of a class 66 cab is a pain, who gives a toss about blowing the horn.
Would you please comment on the different skills needed to drive freight and passenger trains. Thank you. I am not being rude, could modulate the tone of your voice. Currently the pitch of yoiceis the same, lower your voice so that you may raise your voice to highlight important, or interesting points. Please excuse any importance on my part. Regards,Patrick Northamptonshire
Your ALIVE!
I guess driving freight vs passenger trains is a bit like driving buses vs trucks
I’m darails son HI DAD!!!!
Hi Son :-)
The Class 67 is used as passenger and freight
Freight every time.
If your post November 1994 your NEVER getting free of priv rate travel,
Not as a freight driver, we get a pass to use for duty purposes but no leisure or family travel.
Nore should you get free travel or PT , let’s face it, today’s drivers are just boil in the bag drivers, they don’t deserve it
@@mickcavey6218 I hear that term a lot in the industry. How do you define a boil in the bag driver?
@@DadRail fresh of the street, into drivers school, brain washed,
@@mickcavey6218 I'm really sorry Sir Driver, I forget that trains can be driven from armchairs now. Forget DOO we can just hire you and use you to run all the trains! Would you like that? xD