Bowers & Wilkins 607 S2 Anniversary Edition Speaker Review
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- Опубліковано 19 бер 2021
- This is a technical review of the Bowers & Wilkins 607 S2 Anniversary Edition bookshelf speaker. It includes objective measurements, subjective listening tests and suggestions for equalization.
Text review at: www.audiosciencereview.com/fo... - Наука та технологія
This video really helps me interpret the graphs and heat plots that I've been looking at on ASR. Thanks for the explanations Amir!
My pleasure Chris. Good to know the depth of reviews is useful.
I got the Adam T5V based on your recommendation as my first pair of speakers and let's just say that I'm forever indebted to you.
You do great work Amir. Keep doing what you do. Cheers!
Just discovered ASR a month ago. Thank you Amir for all of your hard work! I truly appreciate the guidance ASR offers as a whole, especially as I rebuild my system after a decade long hiatus.
What HiFi "reviews" praise the "improved" difference in audio and video quality of HDMI cables... says it all really.
Small Beer ..What HiFi is a sales/marketing firm, nothing else. I figured that out a long time ago.
Steve hears just the elevations of his wallet and the dynamics of the B&W branding
I stopped reading What HiFi when the reviewer of an AV stand discussed how it improved the bass of his system.
Universally What HiFi loves British speakers I’ve noticed
@@jusjash praising only UK made components!!!!!
This is a great review, thank you very much.I watched two popular and respected youtube reviewers (subjective/listening) not Steve. One reviewer was somewhat upset with product, the other guy made significant room placement and was somewhat apologetic. Your review was OBJECTIVE; clarifying and decisive!! Thanks much.
You are a HERO! Keep on slamming stones in the faces of all the Goliaths of hi-fi industry with no fear, since truth always wins
Indeed! Keep throwing stones! It'll never hurt YOU!
Some years ago, I had a requirement for a small speaker which were to be wall mounted. Based on reviews, B&W had made it on the list to be auditioned. I was shown a brand I'd not heard before for comparison, and ended up walking out of the store with a pair of PSB Imagine Minis. Both my wife and I immediately agreed based on a direct comparison the PSB was a far better option. Some years later, still no regrets. Now NAD M10 powered with Dirac they sound even more amazing.
I guess at the end of the day, its the ears of the beholder that's the most important thing.
Great review!...Finally reviews we can actually trust and make informed decisions in purchasing audio products!
Seems to me that many of the 'subjective' reviewers tend to cover their tracks by "sounds best with this amplifier", or "it took some time to find the right placement", or a number of other parameters that most people won't have the ability to implement (we don't all have a half dozen amps we can switch out, or the ability to change our listening rooms due to spouses or room size). That said, some gear just sounds better in different environments, so I can't really call them out on it either.
20:12 great explanation of beam width and how it can be managed in a loudspeaker. Thank you. I learned 4 new things in about a minute!
Love your reviews. Very valuable resource.
Great review as usual ! Glad to have people like you that share scientific information with us. It would be fantastic to know the behaviour of the Yamaha HS8, if you have access to them of course. Thank you for your invaluable time!
Thank you for kind words and watching Fernando.
Hi Amir, thanks for this great video!! Very informative. Good Real measurements and a clear explanation of the things which can be heard. Personal taste of sound is one thing, but you’ve shown the importance of good engineering. For the same amount of (materials) money B&W could have built a better engineered speaker. We don’t know why they didn’t. What I do know is most people buying this speakers don’t listen carefully and don’t read the ASR website…. , I just gave you the 607th thumbs-up!!
These opposing reviews only solidify my rule to never buy speakers I haven't already heard for myself.
What HiFi is likely the biggest marketing mag of them all, especially when it comes to British brands.
Everything 'reviewed' is always 4-5 stars. Can't recall how long it's been since I looked at that rag!
they love companies that buy advertising space.
You got that right bro!
Its amazing how people can spend 7 to 10k on british speakers that use 50 dollar tweeters and much of it is based on their bs reviews.
@@sergeysmelnik Not B&W. They use quality drive units.
@nostro1001 Smh that rag? stupid comment.What hifi has 5 star ratings with good reviews for Dali Oberon speakers from Denmark,Kef Metta speakers from Spain,Triangle Borea BR08 from France,Dynaudio Contour 201i from Denmark,not just British makes.Please dont be ignorant.
Thank you for sharing your reviews!
Many thanks for your performance review of the above speakers. I was comtemplating to invest my hard earned money on the 606 S2 Anniverssary but I now know that my money is definitely worth spending elsewhere. Kudos and keep up the good work. Thumbs up and subcribed.
Steves reviews are more akin to advertisements.
Bluelithium truth can hurt.
Yu hit di nail on its head. Steve is a master salesman. I like him nonetheless.
He should stop reviewing speakers all together. Hes either a moron or liar. Probably both. He cant even place his cornwalls properly yet im supposed to spend thousands of dollars based on his bs. How many speakers has he measured? Does he even know how? Probably no...
@@sergeysmelnik he gave that average Klipsh speaker of the year too . WTf is wrong with him ?
@@joeygonzo he basically gets payed by these companies to do adds like many of the popular youtube talking head "reviewers."
b&w have always sounded bright and fatiguing to me, thanks for confirming it.
yeah it's weird.....as if someone is pressing in the woofer with their finger while it's playing.
Incorrect ,many b&w speakers sound great with proper system matching.
Problem is with crooked logic of thinking that measurments even if done correctly determine how "good" speaker will sound...
@@kdomster9141 Company should list such matching components then.
@@kdomster9141 i always assumed it was from metal tweeters, every speaker with them I'd heard sounded way too bright. then my father got some focals, wow they sound amazing and they're so efficient as well. it was enough to make me reassess my bias and realize the horrible treble on b&w psb and paradigm speakers was a deliberate manufacturing choice not a characteristic of metal tweeters.
@@DueM Metal dome can sound this way but also sound fast and with natural decay lasting forever and be very natural to percussive instruments, brightness of older B&W models was there due to cheap low end electrolitic caps on the tweeter.... swap for warmer sounding Polypropylene with a quality say 0.1uf bypass cleared up agressive and bright siblance and still kept fast character and turned the presentation into clean with great airness to it....also Quality copper wires instead of some sort of alu wires found inside the speakers did warm up the tonality of the tweeter and its midrange.... nice 3usd Mills resistor did help too .
Older b&w speakers suffered from very poor quality crossover components , drivers were great , cabinet ok but crossover components average or below kind of like many KEF Paradigm or PSB products...
Thanks for the detailed objective review Amir.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching Tony.
My first pair of "proper decent" speakers were B&W 606. I thought they sounded great but wondered why they sounded best when I was above them and they weren't towed in very much. However, I always felt my ears were fatigued/hurting due to listening too loud for too long. I then upgraded to pair of Revel m106. Initially I was gutted as all that detail had disappeared and they sounded flat by comparison, though now after being weaned off the B&W I can listen for hours and hours without fatigue, pretty loudly and the sound is amazing. Whenever I switch back to the 606 for a bit I can only hack an hour or so before it's too much. Unsurprisingly the revel measure great and the B&W: not so much. Maybe Steve and the what hifi guys just like bright speakers, their love of klipsch seems to suggest this is the case. However Steve also loved the M106 too so who knows.
your comment is from 2 years ago...wondering what you think now... and if you still have the Revel or you're actually bored by them. would love to hear what you think...
What HiFi must be one of the least reliable rags out there. A few years ago one of their editors (Simon Lucas?) had a whinge on their forum about having to stop reviewing certain products because of people on the internet, he also mentioned having to pull their reviews off the website even though they stood by those reviews. Intrigued, I had a look at the reviews and saw they’d pulled all their hdmi cable reviews. So despite it becoming apparent that hdmi includes a checksum (can’t remember which site made this clear - avf maybe?) making it impossible for a cable to alter anything, they ‘stood by their reviews’ but with a heavy heart took the decision to remove them all! This episode made it crystal clear to me that they couldn’t be relied upon to tell me if it was day or night, let alone anything else.
They're audio pimps
I'm constantly learning from these videos.
Measurements solve the problem of incorrect attribution.
As a reviewer, I can say that there are times when inaccuracies in frequency response can sound pleasing. Whether it is pleasing based on personal preference, hearing capabilities, how it sounds in your specific room, or is recording specific, it's difficult to tell. It can also vary listening based on short period vs long-term listening like Amir said. I've found that long-term, flat with good off-axis response is a good starting point. You can easily adjust tone controls from there to suit preference.
The end user-experience of listening to music is a complex set of interactions and it's incorrect to assume that one reviewer's experience will somehow reflect yours in your room. Measurements will help you determine what is causing what.
Bingo. Measurements won’t always tell you if speakers are “good” they will however tell you what the sound like and it’s up to you to determine whether you like that sound.
Nicely put, Joe. To reduce all audio to science is as asinine as trusting one man's ears imo. Why not use both the subjective and the objective, mix the science and the art of this hobby? For example, yes the Revels measure flat but they lack any soundstage magic. Back they went. If all you want is flat and accurate then there are plenty of studio monitors that tick the box. All that said, the hi fi industry has been too skewed to the subjective, which is problematic. ASR bringing some level of objectivity to the table is only a good thing. But that doesn't mean subjective reviews have no place.
@@Chris._.B which Revels lacked soundstage magic to you? I reviewed the F226Be and was very fond of their soundstage.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Hey Erin, I've never heard the F226Be, they look like beasts (ones I can't afford). I had the M16 for a couple of months. They were nice enough but I went for some Dali's which - if you'll excuse my subjective take and flowery words - had a more open and airy sound, a slightly less edgy sound and vocals projected with more dimension. And, quite importantly for me, I prefer to listen at low vol (70db peak) - the Revels needed to be cranked a wee bit to come alive whereas the Dali's sound sweet as you like even at 60db peak. Horses for courses. P.S. Just subscribed to your channel.
Interesting...I do hear great things about the M line Revel speakers. Curious to see your findings on the Quad bookshelf line? Particularly the S2's or even Z2's.
I like b&w speakers they suit my taste, but the last 600 series i had and heard was 683 s2, i don’t have experince with the latest 600 series, i now have 702 s2, witch sounds beautiful to me, i really like how much details there is, and put vocals a bit more forward witch i like, very musical speakers to my ears, they are a bit more forward in the highs, but i don’t find them too bright,
People saying reviewers are going to be mad but this isn't saying they can't review gear. I think this info is great for any smart reviewer out there, get into measuring or at least get a setup that is know to be measurably and subjectively great that they enjoy as well and compare their review items to that reference. They could even say they like something that has imperfections but give the proper information as well and preferably tell people they should have a good reference as well before buying something as much to an extreme as these speakers. The amount of people buying the best measuring gear for given prices and more and more of the manufactures coming out with great measuring gear is proof that it's what people want.
That Guttenberg fella gives me the creeps. Thankfully these silly old Audiophools are steadily being discredited by videos like this. Love it!
Which speaker instead of the B&W would you recommend? Thank you
it's a pet peeve when a reviewer merely says "it sounds ok to me." the other good one is "you won't hear it anyways ..probably because you're old." these people (Steve) tend to be the ones who don't bother to even measure the equipment. even if your hearing is good, what makes you think your room you have to listen in is ideal? hey, we're all getting old or there already. I have to laugh when an old guy has an opinion only on how it sounds to their ears. even if I'm deaf that doesn't mean it's ok to sell me a broken speaker for $1k+. I'm really grateful for your work Amir and get a kick out of how you roast those, reviewers and manufacturers alike, who pretend that omitting due diligence is ok!
Thank you for another review video, Amirm. I also read written review first and this was a nice additional topping. :) As usual.
Even video focusing on ‘showroom sound e.g. setting awareness for consumer’ (+ this review as an example and maybe some others that correspond with that from ASR) might have higher reach?
Thanks for the suggestion. Let me think about how I can put one together.
Your videos are very informative and the way you state things can be humorous in a good way.
I watch but take Guttenberg's videos with a grain of salt.
If you notice, he tends to "like" almost everything he reviews.
I hope you continue doing review videos like this one.
Thanks Stephen. As you, I do watch Steve's videos from time to time. He is pleasant to listen to. And sometimes shares useful functionality and history about products. I hardly ever walk away knowing if something is good or bad though from his videos. He has mastered either not knowing what is bad or not saying what is bad about a product!
Steve is fun... Just don't take him seriously
what's the best distance to measure nearfield for speakers?
I'll be perfectly honest, the B&W 800D series of speakers are a halo speaker for me, but neutral they are NOT. It looks like these speakers aren't neutral either, but they don't have the low end response and low distortion in the bass and midrange to pull off the colored response. I've never heard a B&W speaker that I liked the sound of other than the 800D series. Excellent review.
What speaker would you recommend around the same price range as this to pair with The Harman Kardon Citation Amp ?
Great review 😄
One thing that does come to mind Amir, is that maybe you should consider to test another pair of these just to make sure this specific pair was not an outlier somehow.
I try a lot of audio gear used which allows that luxury. Buy/sell no like. I can say your analysis was spot on to my subjective listening to a B&W bookshelf. Very oddly hot yet gapped...at first I said hmm.. "interesting" tweeter...but then after listening to multiple genres I trusted my ears.... The sound just was wrong on mid to upper end. Didn't even need to think about how the bass was.
I've heard a few B&W speakers in the past and never really been impressed for the price. Matter of fact I've had the experience with several more expensive brands as well. Many of these "high end" brands have years of anecdotal meaningless reviews form guys like Steve Gutenberg and articles from magazines they have on speed dial. These companies carefully fabricate their image in the audio world to justify their price. Some of them are really good many others can be beat by a budget speaker or a Parts Express DIY kit. No offense to Steve he seems like an awesome guy but I would take his audio advice with a grain of salt, as you should anyway. Be skeptical do your research and thats why what Amir is doing is so important. Finally we get to see the otherside of the coin, we no longer have to rely only on anecdotal hearsay. Measurements may not be the whole picture bt they definitely help us see more of it. Thanks Amir.
This one reviewer Andrew Robinson, slammed this speaker in a review not liking the sound of it at all. I own a pair of Bower and Wilkins and I like them alot. But room acoustics, type of amp or receiver driving them and personal preference for everyone heard different.
@@bradleydurbin6784 I agree. The measurements on these don't show a nice flat well measured speaker, instead a bright speaker. BUT if that's what ya like and were looking for then the measurements still were helpful. Weather a speaker theoretically measures well or not depending what the listener wants I still think companies should provide standardized measurements to aid the consumer in a buying decision.
I've been hearing about a French speaker company called triangle. And they are putting out some amazing sounding speakers. How do triangle speakers compare to Bowers and Wilkins speakers?
Hello Amir, I’m a subscriber to your channel.
My initial reaction is to hate your guts for each new review you post, but that then turns to understanding and eventually appreciation for what you are doing.
It is difficult to shit on a person who is taking his own time and money to test, listen, and hopefully teach other your approach to product review.
I really do appreciate the time you put into this.
What I don’t get is why any speaker manufacturer would put out this kind of product?
If it was easy for you to measure and find the obvious flaws why couldn’t they B&W, and why is there so many positive reviews online that don’t seem to agree with what you are reporting?
Watching Steve’s video, he kinda correlates what you found during your testing, but then he goes off and starts talking about his personal likes of the product which isn’t helpful for potential buyers.
Watching Tharbamar video, he also correlates what you found, especially the bass bottoming out, but overall he really likes the speaker. He also had experience with the older models of the same speaker so was able to provide insight into that.
As alway take care and stay safe,
Brian
Hi Brian. I always say speaker *business* is 80% marketing, 20% technical and engineering. There is so little objective information out there that customers are basically shopping on marketing messaging. Hopefully we can gradually change this.
Your the SAINT of the Audiophiles! Please, more of this and debunking the fraud.
Would love to see reviews on integrated tube Raven Night Hawk or osprey with Celeste speakers, supposed to be a matched combination Synergy wise. Would love to see tekton Double Impact review also. Prima Luna was in my sight before I looked at Raven.
I actually own the 606 for my desktop Setup. I bought them cause they sounded the best to me in that price region and i got a good deal. But I have to say beyond medium volume the treble does get fatiguing and noises like glass breaking may even hurt my ears at mdeium listening levels.
For a destop system they are decent enough, but these are next on my replacment list.
Also I have to say that the port, the cross over and the tweeter integration/voicing are the main complain when these are the main thing advertised (Decoupled Carbon tweeter, Flow Port and "simple" crossover=more effincency). They even claim to have "improved" the cross over in this version and slapped on a 15% increases here in germany.
Bro get some proper studio monitors
Refreshing to see your reviews, once people had respect for science (maybe not so much with HiFi) but now opinions and marketing of either the product or the personality are all. Over the years I built a few loudspeakers then settled for a pair about 20 years ago. I can tell if the music was recorded well and poor recordings don't grate too much; I can listen to them for extended periods without fatigue. Job done. I wonder what audiophiles actually want?
Which speaker did you settle with?
@@pokerbarloahavia An early Kef concentric 55. Before that designs by Wilkinson based around a Kef B200.
I think they want excitement of new experience with new stuff. However some of them and not only they want the best possible reproduction of recorder reality (sound), but funfact that measurements can lead to that direction and not bias of some personalities...
This is an outright hero review. Thanks!
One question. The edges of the speaker being square can contribute to diffraction. But isn’t the kef r3 also sharp edged ?
Is the tweeter in a waveguide
Greeeeaaat review as always Amir! As someone said the truth always win. I hope someone send you Meyer Sound products soon (like Amie monitor) I consider Meyer brand a great example of "put science first", from my understanding they have created very reliable and specialized products.
Interesting , after I started reading your reviews . I was looking for frequency response graphs . I saw several pa speakers that had good frequency response and I was thinking if they could produce decent "audiophile" sound. I am talking about 6-8 inch speakers and from companies like dynacord-Yamaha-Martin audio-l acoustics. I would like to see test on some pa speakers
I have tested a lot of pro/active speakers and some of them are superb. I have tested two Yamahas for example. I have not however tested standard PA speakers used for voices and such.
Wow one thumb down.
It has to be Steve G! 🤣
Two thumbs down, must be What Hifi clocking in😁
Amir, what smallish speaker do you recommend at $1500 U.S. , or less? I kept watching, and it's the Performa :)
B&W seem to get a lot of good reviews, yet I notice many for sale used after a few months of use. It's very telling... They have a presence range boost, probably impress with shock and awe during a demo. After a few months they are just fatiguing.
Dear sir can you please do measurements on a magnepan model ....lrs or 0.7 or 1.7 . Thank you for your work.
I have only tested the LRS: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/magnepan-lrs-speaker-review.16068/
I always watch Steve's channel to find out what not to buy.
😂
Seems like he loves everything. The UA-cam reviewers who rely on income from reviews must get review units in to evaluate. Cheaper if they can get the company to loan them the units instead of buying. I assume they don’t want to piss off to many manufacturers lest the can not make as many reviews and thus lose income.
The reason they sell so many is thier reach. In my country Denmark they are sold in a retail hi-fi store, most people who buys from them just go in listen for a few minutes and take the word of the seller and buy them.
Do you have any suggestions for decent audio retailers in Denmark? I just moved to Copenhagen and have been aching for some decent hi-fi.
@@BrianSantero There are quite a few, you have ktradio and high-performance audio and Audio Consult,then you have a big chain called hifi klubben that holds the brands like Dali and bowers & wilkins. I have bought from all 4 of them. There are of course many more.
DBA.DK is where most Danes sell used items, so you can find used hifi equipment.
ha ha ha, I bought them few weeks ago. 2 weeks later one developed hiss in around 6kHz. I returned them to the seller and replaced with another type - this time a floor stands (Monitor Audio Silver 300)- from the time perspective 607 S2 AE were simply too small in the bass department comparing to my current ones. But the fact that they failed completely in less than 10 days of usage.... welcome to mass market
Geez, just finished watching your review - I cannot be more happy that they failed ;-)
I had some Silver 1's (bookshelf) for a few years. Granted, I wasn't using them 'properly' as my listening distance is around 5ft so they were incredibly fussy and I found them bright as hell. Switched to some Adam T5Vs for a test and they absolutely annihilated the MAs.
Excellent overall review.....thx Amir. Please do more like this.
Will do. Thanks for watching.
I am a bit skeptical about this Test setup, but well, it seems like these 'cheaper' B&Ws kinda suck ;o)
Anyways, I have a pair of 702 S2 and I m quite happy with em . And thats all that matters to me.
Right now Im looking for a Desktop Setup. I 'm aiming at a set of Canton AM 5 or the Yamaha HS5....the look is an importent part of the equation here ;o) and about anything is going to be better than what I have now. Any comments on these Speakers?
Also a Dac/Preamp is on the List, kinda settled on the SMSL M500, other ideas?
cheers!
You have to listen to them, so if you like them then their perfect.
I tried the yamaha, then settled for Adam 5t for desktop, i also have Mackie MR624, the most musical of the bunch.
I recently sold some B&W DM 620. those were mini towers with 8-in woofers and 8-in passive radiators. they were the most shrill and bass-less speakers I have heard. They literally sounded like the Minimus 7.
I should have known ASR and Amir way before... I went through almost all B&W : 300, 603, 704,804 and there was always something not ok. (IEnjoyed the most 704). I will not buy Bowers any more. Under delivery overpriced.
Me to.what hifi is my guide long time ago til now😭
Try the Focal Aria 906 or even chora line of speakers. They have a sound that will impress after a long listen I used to own a pair.
Rather soulless. No excitement. Boring loudspeakers.
??? and you never bought Epos speakers? Just stuck with BW??
Was Looking at 606 S2 speakers, so what do I match with my Brio R ? 🥴
Amir, have you done any testing on "break-in/burn-in"? Always wondered if this is real where some will say speakers will sound less harsh/bright after "X" amount of hours. Is it mechanical break-in? Electronic break-in?
I have in one instance. I tested a speaker brand new, and then tested it after it was used for a few hours. It made no difference whatsoever. Drivers can shift their response a bit but a completed speaker frequency response changes so negligibly that you can't make any case out of it sounding different. I also tested electronics warm up by leaving a DAC on for a couple of weeks and its performance did not change at all. Ditto for re-testing a device after some use. So please, please don't believe those myths.
@@AudioScienceReview good to know, thanks!
I enjoy my RSL CG25’s.
RSL is a great company in my opinion.
Amir, you are absolutely right; l have yet to hear a completely acceptable sound out of any B&W speaker system! This particular model is bass-reflexed just like the majority of book-shelf speakers since their makers believe this is the only way they can get some bass out of them! As you know, this configuration has two big inherent flaws. For the benefit of your interested viewers, l recommend reading a well-written article in Wikipedia that explores these flaws in detail.
Or any of the popular open baffle speakers like spatial m3, pure audio etc.
Geez Amir, is it me or did I get the feeling you didn't like this speaker too much? 😁 I haven't been a big fan of lower priced B&W speakers that I've listened to over the years. I think you have to move much much higher in price tag to get good sounding B&Ws.
Theyre all severely boosted in highs
CIRMMT posted a YT guest lecture of Dr. Floyd Toole, and you should watch it in its entirety. 1h04m59s he talks about the B&W Matrix 801, which many consider the pinnacle of their product line up. Its measurements are even uglier than these.
@@status101-danielho6 it's all about selling them at the show room. They dont give a shit if you enjoy them a month later
Don't buy BW chit
Same. I bought my first pair of B&W’s 26 years ago. Man that was so long ago. Then have purchased 4 more pairs over the years. Unfortunately they have been more focused in “home theater” sound over the last decade unless you’re looking at the 800 series which is outside my willingness (willingness is different from budget).
Thanks for the video and measurement. Can you please listen to it share your opinion and then analyze result too? I think when u know the data if u know it is not that good it will sound not that good. I just want to know like wow it measured better or worse than your initial first experience with particular speaker. Thanks your precious time.
Amir-you need to test the Kef LS50! I have these B&W speakers and you have shed light on my journey. I am tempted to pick up the rev as you mention a positive note-any measurements on these? I have always eyed the Kefs. Unfortunately, I do not have access to a showroom with them. A serious nod of appreciation Sir to your mission on this channel.
He already tested them. They measure okay, but they're poor value and less expensive speakers do better.
@Jon Beck The Spinorama measurements require a lot of interpretation, but they're used because there's no other set of measurements that can capture a loudspeaker's "goodness". If all you bought were Revel loudspeakers, you'd be fine. But there's a lot of great products at all price points. Check out his review of the Audioengine A5+, it's probably an inexpensive giant killer if you already have a subwoofer.
@Jon Beck From his homepage, click on: Forum > Speaker Review and Measurement Index, and a spreadsheet ought to show up on a desktop. It doesn't work on a mobile browser, so you need a PC or a tablet in desktop mode. From there, you should see a list of loudspeakers. It's not that thorough, but the LS50 is there.
If all you want is a quick Yes or No, look on the right columns for a score higher than 5.0, or higher than 7.0 with a subwoofer. It's not foolproof, but any of these are speakers you ought to enjoy for decades to come, knowing that they're not going to become sonically obsolete.
The value of his website is that $$$ doesn't mean better; a subwoofer makes a HUGE different in perceived sound quality; and that the audiophile press is not particularly trustworthy because of their lack of measurements and conflicts of interests.
This is my own 2 cents, but for what it's worth, anything more expensive than a pair of Sonos Fives or Revel M16's (both
@Jon Beck The top three links in the forum all point to indices for various product class reviews. Here is the one for speakers: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/SpeakerTestData/ You can sort by ones I recommend for example.
How do you measure reflations on a speaker? Is that not room-dependent vs speaker-dependent?
He does this outside so it only sees the speaker reflections
The predicted in-room response simulates what the speaker would do in typical listening room. It is not perfect but correlates well.
Way to go Amir!!! Nailed it! I own a pre 2000 b&w 801 s3 matrix and it's amazing. I also owned and own post 2k b&w and they sound very bad in comparison. The worst was 703 s1 which was ear bleedingly screaming at highs and mids and had yucky resonance at high bass. Let's set B&W back on the right track.
Have you done a review on the leaf DB52? I feel like you and GR research are a sanctuary for good information.
ASR is the best thing to happen to audio industry in a long time, and I believe it is directly responsible for lowering prices of new products now that they feel threatened by cheaper products (mostly imports) performing objectively better. There is always going to be some subjectivity to audio but that is completely up to the listener. I don't need the garnished description of how tall and short the soundstage is for a free sample they (the reviewers) receive from the company. Unfortunately, it is the only way to learn about a lot of audio products you are interested in.
LOL, not by any stretch of the imagination.
What small speaker would you recommend under $2000?
for a similar price would you recommend a FOCAL stand mount?
How can the Spin take into account the effect of the port when a bookshelf speakers frequency response is designed to be close to a rear wall? Does that robot have an attachment that mimics a typical bookshelf enclosure? Very interesting, thanks!
Do you really think speakers designed to be placed against the wall would have a port at the back?
@@karolre3246 Yes, a properly designed bookshelf can design a rear port to be taken into account in an enclosed space. I've seen a few..he calls this a bookshelf speaker in the first minute which tells me it's supposed to be designed to be in close proximity to a rear surface. Makes me wonder if the speaker measurements would change (for the better) if used in a ...bookshelf. Could possibly change the anemic bass response? I don't know if the robot takes this into account.
Room gain does not offset the terrible frequency response above 600Hz
Naming something “bookshelf “ does not mean they should be placed near a wall. B&W does recommend these being 0.5 meters from a rear wall, probably to help the anemic bass, and yes, Klippel takes room response into account.
Hey Amir, you need to revisit ATC and review the SCM-11 v2 bookshelf speakers because Danny Ricthie measured them and they were pretty flat according to his measurements.
Hey there. :) Need someone to send one in to test.
Hi Amir!
I know it is a ling shot, but I will try it anyway...
Canton makes an Online Exclusive series of Speakers, and I have the B100 Floorstanders. I think they are quite good but would love to see an objective Review of them. Since they are Floorstanders and I am in Germany, so I cannot send them to you, but maybe you can get a pair from Canton US or something... would be great!
Also, if you get your hands in a pair of KEF Q Series Speakers (Q750, Q350, Q150) that would also be interesting to see how well the concentric design measures!
Hi Roland. I have a contact in the company so could ask them. The issue is that right now I am very far behind as far as testing gear in general, and speakers in the specific. I need to clean up that queue first before asking for more bits to test.
@@AudioScienceReview
Thanks, that is great! And yes, I know the terrors of a long backlog...😉
yep I watched Steve Guttenberg's review of the B&W 607 and my dealer didn't have them. I got them without hearing them and boy was that a bad idea...they were all out to lunch and the tweeters were horrifying until i bi wired them and it helped a bit but wasn't profoundly better and mid bass was bloated with more power amps like the 150W Parasound A23+ but it did like the 30W Rega io better ...So I sold them took a 200 loss and got a pair of used $1600 ATC SCM12's and a REL T/Zero sub for my desktop. All I have to say is OH MY GOD the ATC is a god send.
best channel
The purest yet full bodied sound I've heard is from Epos ES14 speakers .. the epos doesn't measure as well as a KEF ls50 , yet the epos sounds beautifuly superior in every way
Dear Amir, Can you test QAcoustics 3050i. This speaker is quite better than the Big Name brands, I feel. Thank you
What if I'm going to use room correction regardless of the speaker I buy, because my room is far from ideal, and can't do acoustic treatment. Does the frequency response still matter?
@Will end of the day you listen to the room and the speaker at the listening spot. How does it matter if I the freq resp I get at my listening spot is not flat after using DSP ?
@Will Of course it can be. Amir just showed his setting.
@Will It can be made better yes, nothing can be “corrected” if we mean shaped in perfection. But that's not possible however we look at it.
Also depends on what kind of room correction we are talking about?
@Will But no speaker represents the image the same in all directions.
With the steak you just lower the heat ; )
Maybe it is rounded from inside? Or they have some sort of sound absorbing layer there? That'd work right? Aesthetically I prefer rounded edges too!
Inside won't help you with diffraction. We worry about the sound expanding outside of the speaker and then getting diffracted on the edges.
@@jamesdoranto9013 Inside and outside matter, but on the inside you can always use absorbers. You cannot do that with outside. But when it comes to this speaker, it has bigger issues than not having rounded edges.
@@jamesdoranto9013 the outside definitely matters more than you think. Hard edges don’t do too well as well as larger baffles around the mid/tweeter. There’s a reason why people make edges on the sides of the speaker besides looks. The sound travels AROUND the enclosure also.
Dedicated video on your test setup? Maybe even explain it to a "guest".
I just bought B&W 606 S2. Can't testify about the 607s, but these speakers are splendid for my small room 2 channel system. I'm running them on an AV receiver (sensitivity is 88 and my Sherwood claims 100 Wts per so there's plenty of power) and they still sound great.
Could the extra brightness help in some rooms ? Could the lack of bass help if placed close to the wall ? Does a flat speaker sound good in every room ?
Yes. In an over treated room a brighter speaker may sound good. Also to old people who have lost some high frequency hearing. However, this speaker is very hard, if not impossible to eq, so fixing the issues aren’t possible. The idea of weak bass being helped by placing close to a wall would also be very difficult to accomplish because you want your speakers placed in a window to properly place the stereo sound. Better solution would be to add a subwoofer. Flat speakers do not sound better in every room, but a flat speaker is easy to eq for almost any room.
Speakers that are designed to be placed close to the front wall don't have port on their back...
Yes.
No.
Yes, but the brightness is first of all subjective to each and everyone. Also, no room is the same in shape ans size. Some have plenty of book shelfs and furniture that diffuse the high frequencies making a speaker sound duller.
A “flat” speaker does not sound good in any room. First of all there are no “flat” speakers. Some have a flatter frequency response than others. But that's it.
Keep in mind that testing raw data like this is good but it doesn't say everything about a speaker. Amir knows this but he takes strong fact driven opinion which is good in many ways, but not necessarily when comparing how things actually behave in a listening situation.
I had the B&W 602.2 . Gr Research exposed it for the sound monster it was. But, gosh, one of my favorite speakers!
Hah, I knew it - most of the glowing online reviews regarding this speaker can not be trusted - thank you Amir!
Looking forward for you to test a little bigger 606 S2 Anniversary speakers.
Weren’t b&w sold awhile ago ?
Dale Carnegie wants to have a word with you. But you’re too busy with Floyd and Ethan pushing the field forward ;-) Thank you for all you do!
:) Very kind of you.
I expect B&W voiced them to have that frequency response, if all speakers measured flat they would all sound pretty much the same.
You mean if they all did that, they would all sound good. :) There is still plenty of room outside of tonality to differentiate speakers. You can do that with directivity, how loud a speaker plays, how it looks, how big it is, what type it is, etc. Let's let the innovations be in those areas than making less round tires as a way of innovation!
they are supposed to sound just how the track was recorded.. I mean what Hi Fi means to you?
Steve Guttenberg recommended the pioneer spbs22lr so I bought them. You also liked those speakers especially for the price.
So I assume something changed for him over the past 4 years or so.
Edit: audio reviews are no longer negative since they started linking the products in the description. 😉
What hi-fi said that Audioquiest RCA cable make vocals clear but the overall sound is lacking warmth and dynamics. Whatever that means...
I would love too see the robot do its job!
The robot is in our garage full of our personal stuff. I have to expose all the junk we horde in there to the world! :) There is a brief video online that shows a bit of it working: ua-cam.com/video/oPJGCPRXThE/v-deo.html&ab_channel=MatejIsak
@@AudioScienceReview I watched the video and I can understand why you do this testing in your garage!
I don’t really like listening on axis for this particular series of speakers, and from your measurements and James Larson’s off axis by about 20-30 degrees helps to flatten out the top end
A good speaker gives you a choice that way, not force you and thus, eliminate some positioning you like to use.
@Jon Beck This again?! Are you dumb ore something. He reviewed more than an hundred speakers and gave you the database you are looking for.
So, high treble can cause not clean sound?
Yea and it is freaking impossible to listen to these speakers for more than 5 minutes. It hurts your ears. Think hearing super high frequency ringing for 5 minutes it isn't a good experience
Most likely the dip at the cross over point could be largely due to poor components matching in the x-over and also the woofers/tweeter matching with x-over, NO or lack of overall sonic quality check eg freq. resp. before sending the product out the door. A designer(no respectable ones anyway) of these speakers would shameful sending this kind of speakers out the door.
A lot of sales from large speakers manufacturers are due to marketing and after a good review the manu. keep pushing them out the door. Also, there is no shortage of lots of speakers promoters of new speakers on UA-cam, so many of them, every new model usually have good reviews and perceived as the next best speakers.
Amir, you are doing a good job.
I believe my above comments need revision after I read a new review about 705 B&W speakers if you examine the curves of the freq. from this review,
www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2511:nrc-measurements-bowers-wilkins-705-signature-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153
B&W intentionally design their speakers to have a dip around the x-over than then heighten the high freq. response, this kind of response characterises the articulation of the speakers sometimes refers to as "voicing of the speakers" which also means identify them as belonging to the stable of "B&W sound". Whether you like them(the sound) is up to each individual, I don't. Cheers.
Interesting video. Thanks! Even though I am not totally for 100% flat response, I am glad to see some constructive criticism about this overrated speaker. I had very similar experience with the 606 I reviewed. Bass - nothing to write home about (in contrast to bragging in magazines) and I think even the previous one (685 S2) was having less harshness. They definitely crossed the line in this department with this generation of 600 series in my opinion. However, I don't understand why you evaluated Focal Aria 906 much better and didn't mention anything about brutal top end. Speaking from my experience, the 906 is even more harsh than B&W and requires huge amount of effort in pairing to make it sound right (for example Rega).
Looking at the graphs. The 906 actually has a subdued treble. It does have wide dispersion in the top end though so a very reverberant room could make them sound harsh, but these B&W speakers are without question harsher in the top end.
@@homeboi808 Hmm. It might be the room.
What HiFI? is incredibly useless. There is not a single product they have anything negative to say about.
The point about pointy corners is actually quite interesting, most manufacturers seem to had that figured out 30 years ago.
I've seen plenty of 2 star and 3 star reviews from What Hifi I've the years... Mission speakers used to get a hammering from them in the 90s... Even though they had lots of adverts in the magazine
@Will who's speakers did that happen to?
@@jules153 The funny thing is that the Missions where probably the better value British speaker over the B&Ws. I had some that cost £90 and really they were enjoyable speakers and i couldn't complain at that price.
@@Jordonater yep a friend of mine had some Missions and loved them. They probably wouldn't measure well at all....
Transient response is far more important that frequency response..
anyway, the Kevlar woofers looked more attractive to me than those "Continuum" ones... but yes BW sounds too bright to me too.
do you promote Revel speaker ??
"But, but, my ears!!"
You are enjoyable as an exposer of shenanigans. Thanks.