I think it's neat that laios love of monsters **did** originate in part from a feeling of isolation and resentment toward other humans, always feeling more affinity to animals, but he's still able to be rational and put ethics above his feelings, being mindful of the balance of the ecosystem and putting the safety of others first, even though he has an unfavorable view of humans due to his life experiences. I think a lot of people who think they hate humans really just hate /society/, but don't realize it, and just blame it on some innate human quality rather than all the complicated cultural norms and rules that were largely invented by the upper classes throughout history, but that's a whole can of worms of it's own.
This is exactly why I relate with him. Being isolated for being slightly different is painful, which is why people like us gravitate toward non-human creatures. That doesn't take away such people's empathy towards other humans. They just don't have the patience to deal with societal BS
Something I find neat, judging by the cross-hatching in the manga art, Fishmen appear to have scales, while Mermaids don't. Furthermore, the orientation of their tail fins are different, with the Fishmen flns being vertical, and Mermaids' horizontal. I'm absolutely NOT a zoologist, but from what I can tell, this shows that Mermaids do not in-fact have fish lower-halves, but seal or whale-like lower halves, fitting with their mammalian designation.
I also love the all mermaids appear to have breasts, although it wasn't stated as male mermaids exist, I would like to think that they do, and that they have cloaca similar to birds. And all develop breast to feed young.
Nightmares being an extremely derived type of dragon is still so funny to me. If I had to guess, the shells are actually modified scales rather than the calcium based shells we're used to seeing in the real world
Also, for the kobalt's resistance to snake venom, im pretty sure in the manga they mention that kobalt's originally come from a desert region. Maybe they interact with venomous snakes more because of that and developed a resistance? It's just a guess.
@@pantherenoire7937 They do. I had the same thought too but i don't want to jump to that conclusion because some humans / demi also live there yet they aren't venom resistant.
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Maybe it's like the Inuit artic gene variant that helps them protect against the effects of a high fat diet, ie a long standing selective pressure on specific native populations in an environment.
@@pantherenoire7937may be worth noting that despite not being dogs, meerkats and mongeese are highly resistant to snake venom. Doses that would easily be lethal to a human are just bad wounds with non negligable symptoms, but not outright fatal to a meerkat or mongoose
Their resistence could also be a coincidence, mabe something in their biology simply makes them more resistand to this venom, without having evolved for this purpose.
I think one major difference with monsters in dungeon meshi is that they likely only need to be viable in their current form. In real life, a creature started off as some single cell organism, and then in it's entire evolution until now, every generation and every mutation needs to have remained viable and competitive to some extent otherwise it couldn't have continued to reproduce and evolve. But in the dungeon, the dungeon master can simply create monsters. As long as they're viable enough to survive and reproduce in the form that's created, then that's fine. Even if it's an odd thing to exist, if it in it's current state is able to survive and reproduce, then it works. A realistic path for evolution might not really be needed in this case. EDIT: Sorry about my terminology, I'm obviously not educated in this area. I'm just thinking in context to how the dungeon works and the little I do know about evolution.
@@OutofPlaceZoologist SPOILER when the next person became the Dungeon Lord, they designed walking Mushrooms with Flowers growing on them. The Crew instantly recognized that this wouldn't work because the flower would be wilting the Mushroom
Actually if you thinking about it, then it's same with us and how we breeds our animals and plants that wouldn't really happen in normal environments, what difference is actually just we doing it in same species but the dungeon just used whatever as long as it serves it's purpose and be able to live where it is and procreate itself
What finally got me to watch the anime was a clip of that and a clip of Marcelle using dark magic. I initially didn’t want to watch it because I didn’t think the story was going to be anything special. But the world building was just so novel that I had to see what it was about. Maybe it’s a small thing for others, but I think the conservation of mass is an important thing to consider when designing a magic system. Full Metal Alchemist was one of the only shows to acknowledge conservation of mass. If everyone was able to just conjure water from magic, which itself seems to come from seemingly nowhere, then you’ll eventually run into a problem. So I really appreciate the fact that these authors try their best to not break rules of physics while building a world that feels possible. I feel more immersed when they do that.
For the beginning, the best part of the characters at the beginning is that they break characters tropes. The human fighter is the weird one, the elf is the prissy city person, the dwarf is the environmentalist, the rogue hates violence. It's so good
The best part for me is that I didn't even pick up on this! I mean, yeah I picked up on the characters' races and personalities, but I never actually noticed that they were all such strong and specific inversions of the usual stereotypes until your comment because it all just felt so organic!!! Like, *of course* Chilchuck isn't a fighter, he's fragile and his vast skillset alone justifies his position in the party! *Of course* Marcille is a prissy city-person, she's from an extremely wealthy and powerful family and has probably only ever known privilege. Et cetera, et cetera.
About evolution... (POSSIBLE SPOILERS) I believe that isn't as much of a concern for monsters in this world. AFAIK each monster species starts off as a magically-altered creature, and although the one doing the altering may have some pride in their craft, true selection pressure only applies once they escape into the wild and must reproduce naturally. (Or as naturally as you can get in an ultimately artificial dungeon environment...) So, something like Dryad could be explained as an artificially created "ornamental plant" that escaped and became somewhat invasive. Oh, also "ambient mana" seems to be a thing that lets the more powerful creatures found on lower floors seemingly ignore more of the laws of biology; I recall Laios talking about how a large dragon wouldn't be able to survive in a human town due to lack of mana. And it isn't just a handwave, it's actually implied to have sources and flows to it, not just from [REDACTED] but being produced by the metabolic processes of weaker monsters in upper floors, like slimes and walking mushrooms.
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Hm... Personally, I don't see it as more of a spoiler than all the physical details you've already gone over, as long as you don't go into specific details. But I can see where you're coming from!
@@nnelg8139 The actual revelation itself had not happened in season 1 which is why i don't talk about it in the video Thanks for putting the spoiler warning in your comment btw
@@OutofPlaceZoologist It actually does get explained in the anime with a visual representation. So while an actual demonstration isn't shown until chapter 68, you find out how basilisks are made in chapter 48, or episode 22 of the anime. When Marcille explains how familiars are made, she says that you can modify/fuse plants and animals into monsters (but also that you can alternatively take control of one, implying that there are some naturally made monsters). That being said, I don't think too many picked up on that detail, nor do I think that moment later on will help some of those people understand it better.
16:35 - Funny thing is, TONS of depictions of Basilisks/Cockatrices (both historic and modern) simply depict them as a gigantic snake with a rooster's crest instead of a snake-tailed rooster, it's 100% possible Basilisks and Cockatrices are in fact a snake monster species in Dunmeshi! :D 38:30 - As for why the mimic doesn't just bail on the treasure chest, I personally believe the scene with Kabru's party being paralyzed by treasure bug venom was meant to be a hint to readers, namely that treasure bugs could very well have this paralyzing venom from the very moment they hatch and will just instinctively use it on anything unfortunate enough to come into direct contact with them, meaning the mimic actually CAN'T escape. Essentially, it's the parasitoid wasp's game plan but with the twist that it's the kids that do the paralyzing rather than the parents.
39:03 I think the answer to this question is more preference than safety. When a cat has caught a mouse (assuming that it intends to eat it at all), it will only eat the entire thing if it is really hungry, and gauges what it eats based on hunger level. Cats often avoid eating internal organs, sometimes only eating the head. Some leave the gizzard, which is strongly acidic. The fact that the kelpie leaves the liver behind is curious because cats do consider that to be very tasty. Perhaps kelpies have a strong aversion to bile?
Though they didn't show it, I assume because the adult mimic bugs have paralytic venom, a clutch of eggs would likely have them as well in some capacity. so if the mimic isn't aware that a clutch has hatched, they may be ambushed and paralyzed, left helpless to the newborn treasure bugs. What comes to mind is parasitic creatures like Wax Moths who invade bee hives and lay their clutch. a healthy and attentive hive will dispatch the wax moth and its eggs, but one that is stressed or unhealthy for some reason will not notice, and when the larvae hatch, cause damage to the colony. Perhaps older Mimic, or those who are unhealthy for whatever reason are more prone to being infested with treasure bug eggs.
My brain just jump to the default real life logic and thought "there is no way a small insect can pierce a crustacean exoskeleton" so i didn't jump into that train of thought But reading this makes me rearrange my view because this is not real life after all. They'll find a way So yea i really like this explanation
@@OutofPlaceZoologist small insects need not pierce the exoskeleton. Ants kill crabs by attacking the joints. Using this tactic they can take down even the largest crabs like coconut crabs as the crabs are helpless to stop them. Terrestrial hermit crabs also have mites as a frequent parasite, and they feed off the crab in a similar way, targetting vulnerable areas on the crab's body. A Treasure bug's lifestyle is more along the lines of a phorid fly, some of which are parasitoids which lays their eggs inside a host ant or for some species, bees bigger than they are, even killing the host in some cases like if there alot of phorid fly larvae or if the host is small, like an ant
1:03:30 YEAAAAAAAAAA GO OFF KING, LAIOS IS THE GOAT BECAUSE HE DOESN'T DO THE "HUMANS ARE DISEASE BLAH BLAH BLAH" WHILE BEING A MONSTER SNOB!!!! HE TRULY CARESSSSS HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS ABOUT YEAAAAAAAAH By the way while you were discussing the fishmen I called my little sis over to show her the fish with "arm fins" and we talked about the basilisk and the snake with the spider tail, it was really nice, man :] thanks for letting me bond with my little sis in a fun way we both can relate to (as an animal fan AND a dungeon meshi fan)
I love your last section about Laios and I completely agree with you. His statement about monsters being dangerous really made an impression on me too. That added so much to his character. Not being able to read social cues is one thing, being an asshole is another thing. Too many people nowadays think being an asshole is cool. Luckily Laios is a good character that understands his own shortcomings and genuinely tries, as long as people explicitly tell him and not do the subtle social cues thing, he is very respectful to everyone. He is the perfect lovable dork character.
The Barometz, in shape and seeming, also comes from a very old legend/rumor from ignorant medieval people called The Vegetable Lamb Of Tartary. People were told cotton came from a plant but had no conception of plants with fibers like hair. So rumors started and were illuminated in natural histories with confident assurance, that cotton came from a sheep that grew like a plant. It's so weirdly niche, and yet Japan just happens to absorb the most wild and obscure stuff. This isn't even the only time a Vegetable Lamb Of Tartary is in a Japanese fantasy. In the PS2 game Odin Sphere one of the items you can use in adventure screens will grow a Vegetable Lamb Of Tartary you can then harvest meat from. It's like how Japan not only absorbed Kobolds, they absorbed specifically than ones in the narrow window of old D&D where the translation of the description could be just slightly off enough to make them dog people, which went into the smash hit franchise Wizardry, and then we get Kuro, the goodest boy.
Why would any organism exhibit mimicry aimed at humanoids? Because developing something that might help avoid destruction is helpful. I imagine they already had a flower that, by happenstance, at some point kind of looked humanoid and the ones that had EXTRA human looking parts were able to reproduce more because they were left alone wile the more vague flowers were destroyed on account of their spores being a massive allergen to humanoid species. Why didn't they develop less irritating pollen if humanoid intervention was such an issue? Some of them did, I'm sure. There's probably a common ancestor between a hyper-human flowerer and some looked-over dudgeon plant species that had a flower that looked like a head, a torso, two arms, and two legs. The amount of intervention from people with that exact set-up must have been absolutely astronomical to alter a plant like that by nature, so cultivation and oddities might have played a part before they got where we can see them in series.
If i recall correctly, Dragons are classified that way because they're considered disasters by their sheer presence. the nightmare's ability to completely f-up a group mentally may be the reason it is classified as such.
I'm very happy to see a biology video on Dungeon meshi as that was what wrapped it's claws around me when I found out and started the series! 55:24, very specifically, I feel like I've seen a sea creature that looks EXACTLY like the sky fish but looking back, the closest example I think of is the Polychaete worm though I can't remember which specific type.
I don't remember the clam monster. However, if I had to guess, it's probably classified as a dragon because there's a clam monster called a shen that may or may not be a dragon in disguise. It's notable for having illusion powers. Edit: I should've watched the entire video before commenting. Lol.
Interestingly, there are other snail-dragons of mythology that the clam monster may also be based on. There's the japanese Shussebora and the european paintings of knights fighting giant snails.
So, I’m not quite sure why I was recommended this video. Still watched it fully from beginning until end - you’re very entertaining, easy to understand, passionate of the topic, and well-spoken! It wasn’t until near the very end that I saw what the connection was… Am I the first of Project Moon sleeper-agents commenting on this video? I saw that Angela png among your 5th category of characters you like, you can’t hide it from the denizens of The City. The Invitations are sent, the Reception starts soon…
Honestly, one thing I love is that even creatures that are more magical, they fill their own ecological niche The changeling mushrooms spread largely by targeting social species that will get left behind by their groups if they look wrong The Shapeshifter is a good example of the sorts of adaptations to feed primarially on humans, since we tend to get smarter with better tools, at least a little faster than a lot of species can adapt, so using that intellegence against us is a great strategy I do agree that the Dryads aee just weird if you start thinking about it though 😂
Fun fact of a Dire Wolf, they weren't actually the "Wolf but Big" Fantasy usually shows, they were more like "Wolf but Pitbull" and went extinct because the prey they were specialized to hunt died out.
Without doing much research, I think that's the case. It'd make more sense that the plant got its name from the myth rather than the other way around (at least it makes more sense to me, especially given the actual plant has the "sheep" part at the bottom rather than the top).
(Possible spoiler?) Given where most unicorns are depicted to exist, I do believe that the horns are being sawn off. Whether or not they are capable of regrowing them, given that unicorn horns are used to keep many sources of water purified throughout the dungeon, the horns would likely be sawed off once grown just because having easy access to water filtration is extremely useful.
18:12 they’re clearly either nudibranchs or slugs with hermit crab habits. So if they were to be mollusks they’d be in Gastropoda! Here’s a nudibranch that looks very similar to the living armor! ua-cam.com/video/Tt1QANIdoLo/v-deo.htmlsi=EqGvqK08vTfEnyh4
I love your insight and thought process about a lot of the monster featured in the manga. I only know somewhat about mythology and fantasy monster so most of the time I didn't really think much of how they work and why they evolve in such a way because "that's just how they do in the myth" Edited because I accidentally pressed enter too early
Great Video, I hope you make more videos in different kinds of medias, I kinda hope an indepth look on Monster Classes in Monster Hunter and seeing which kinds are in that classification
since you mentioned your taste, here are some recs for psychological and mystery manga that you'll probably enjoy but might not have heard of because of their demographics: - double - limit - helter skelter - 7 seeds - mystery to iu nakare - mitarai-ke, enjou suru - shigeshoushi
I like to think that a slime would have a brain so it could avoid trying to eat fire (which occurs in the dungeon both naturally and due to adventurers) without needing to get close enough to get hurt.
5:07 Funny thing is that I was seeing cut shorts from the anime for a while and not getting me interested, but then there was a short of episode 3 and I immediately got to go know what was it to watch it
I only watched the anime so far, (Mainly because I can't get a hold of manga very easily) but when I heard that the entirety of what I saw was just considered to be an appetizer, my mind shut down for a while, and I had to watch the vid a second time to find out what I missed. Edit: I just finished reading the manga, and I only have one thing to say... HOLY SHI-
31:40 my theory about the Basilisk is that the snake lives longer because it has the lings, and maybe in difficult situations it has other structures to pump blood as the heart would. I'm not a biologist but I think it may be more difficult to oxygenate blood than pump it for backup mechanisms despite our societies focus on the heart.
I don't like some choices in the localization. For example during the Griffon episode the English subtitles completely ignored the central point of the oeigin of the meat and called it from another completely different species. Even when every localization of Dungeon Meshi manga correctly called the meat what it is. Good video also I didn't know you liked Project Moon. Eve
18:52 i think the reason they are categorized together is specifically because what it takes to over come , that large amount of magical power they possess and them not being intelligent Nightmare fore you to face inner demons and has a similar mental strain as you would trying to physically overcome a dragon
42:52 Many shark species have vertical slit eyes but they are often too dilated to tell. I think they are especially prominent on ground sharks like catsharks, blacknose shark, and tiger sharks.
The nightmares being dragons reminds me of barnacles and how people thought they were mollusks until they realized years later that they were crustaceans, which then lead Darwin to study barnacles to better understand where they might go, which then frustrated him to the point where he declared "I hate a barnacle as no man ever did before." I wonder if any dungeon ecologist cried themselves to sleep next to a tank of nightmares.
The Cockatrice ang Basilisk being Serpents is cool. Despite what we actually see, we may think the bird is the main body but the snake "tail" is the actual body. Technically its a snake with a mutated tail that became the Cockatrice and the Basilisk
If you do a subnautica video my life is yours! It’s one of my favorites games, I’m ocean obsessed and desperately want more scientific and biologic focused videos about it!
The only reason i'm against the thought is i believe there are lots of such videos already (from marine biologists even) that my insights would be redundant
Basilisks Chicken side doesnt appear to have lungs. It could be as simple as it could still breaths while bleeding to death. While the chicken side asphyxiates.
There's something that I really think you'd enjoy! It's a game called Rain World, it's a survival game where you play as a little animal in an abandoned world. I can't really say much more because anything I could mention I consider kind of a spoiler, despite there not being a super accessible story unless you figure out the mechanism in which you get the lore. I'll just say that you should definitely try it!
I really enjoyed this content! I wish you didn’t have the put your disclaimer at the beginning about your option… I understand why, and that’s what’s disappointing. As for ideas for similar content. I would love to see your take on Monster Hunter. It “feels” realistic with its ecology and such, but I’m curious on your take and opinions!
I actually made a video talking about monster hunter, although specifically about the species concept and classification. I find it redundant to talk about the previous games because there are a whole series of books on zoologists thought on them and there are lots of dedicated channels (kinda) that talk about the actual in universe ecology I do plan on reviewing stuffs on MH wild when its released since it'll be "fresh" insights
Almost none of the monsters make sense as something that would evolve through competitive advantage, but even the wacky ones that don't even fit in their kingdom make sense if you think about them as engineered organisms. The monsters didn't come about as a function of nature, they were invented by the imaginations of natural creatures who wanted them for a specific purpose. A successful dungeon lord doesn't just place the monsters, they also have to make the collection of monsters self-sustaining, or the ecosystem will run at a net loss and constantly need to be replenished. Dryad Flowers being human-looking, motile organisms that tempt explorers and then kill them is a ridiculous and wasteful lifecycle, but someone thought it was cool or scary, so now they exist in this world and serve to fix key nutrients that wouldn't be available to their biome otherwise, even though there are better candidates for the niche.
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Bro Devil Survivor 1 and 2 are my jam, and SAIDUQE/Alcor is one of my favorite characters. Devil Survivor needs either a rerelease on Switch/Other Consols, a remaster, or a 3rd game, because the series is heavily underrated and SMT5V really put the wind back in Atlus’ sails.
What separates a colony organism like manowar from a multicellular organism like humans? are they an example of the middleground that could have been happening in evolution between single celled organisms and multicellular life?
I think the lines are a bit blurry. The thing about biological categories is they are man made. Any hard definition we try to establish will run into some kind of problem. Even the definition of life has challenges. There are at least 123 different definitions of life because none perfectly describe everything we consider to be alive while excluding everything we don’t consider to be alive. Some consider the existence of specialized cells, the ability to separate and survive, and the ability to reproduce independently to be functions of colonial organisms. But I’m sure you can find examples that are exceptions to this rule.
@AlliePaints What @connorgrynol9021 said is correct To put more focus on your specific question: Let's say you know what a lion looks like. Then you see an animal that looks like two or even more lion joined together. You would most likely think that is indeed two lions joined together (somehow, someway). That's how it is with colonial hydrozoan. Each polyp looks like the "typical" Cnidarian polyp, so those that knew about Cnidarian polyp would most likely think those are several polyps somehow joined together and performing as a single colonial entity. Somewhere in the evolutionary process, before a colonial hydrozoan became the colonial hydrozoan that we now know, those different polyps might just actually be different individuals that stick together and mutually symbiotic. As time goes by, they started "aggregating" with each other. So it's like how a single cell organism might evolved into multicellular organism, but upscaled. That's oversimplification of course, but i hope that's a clear enough explanation. I would also like to clarify that those are theories. We don't really know how they actually evolve because we can't observe them. Not enough clue (yet, at least)
The dryad might be a mimic evolution. Like some non-poisonous animals mimic their poisonous counterparts without the downside of spending resources to actually produce the poison/venom. Also who are the 2 girls at the bottom in the second column(the one who has house and L) 1:01:00 ?
The front most is Faust from Limbus Company, behind her (to the right of the screen) is Binah / Garion from Lobotomy Corporation / Library of Ruina (same universe)
29:34 the snake part has the lungs without the snake the chicken suffocates cutting the snake off from the rooster cuts through its stomach so it starves to death even if it’s healed
Reading the manga i felt like the creatures in the dungeon are made b, magic, but the creatures are the most efficient if they take the natural path. Like, they can't really work, without bei g a part of an ecosystem or a greater context.
artificial insemination for minotaurs definitely gonna be craaaaazy. I got a flashback about the first time I see a picture of artificial insemination on cows on my highschool textbook. like, oh my god that farmer's hand went so deep 😭
Your friend is really a queen for recomending and insisting that its good, because then you watched before spoilers. You wouldve probably come across some spoiler of episode 10 and it wouldve ruined the surprise. This anime is really good, and i want to read the manga aswell
![Delicious in dungeon/DUNMESHI reacts!!| [2/2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3nq1HxbxL70/mqdefault.jpg)
I think it's neat that laios love of monsters **did** originate in part from a feeling of isolation and resentment toward other humans, always feeling more affinity to animals, but he's still able to be rational and put ethics above his feelings, being mindful of the balance of the ecosystem and putting the safety of others first, even though he has an unfavorable view of humans due to his life experiences.
I think a lot of people who think they hate humans really just hate /society/, but don't realize it, and just blame it on some innate human quality rather than all the complicated cultural norms and rules that were largely invented by the upper classes throughout history, but that's a whole can of worms of it's own.
This is exactly why I relate with him. Being isolated for being slightly different is painful, which is why people like us gravitate toward non-human creatures. That doesn't take away such people's empathy towards other humans. They just don't have the patience to deal with societal BS
Something I find neat, judging by the cross-hatching in the manga art, Fishmen appear to have scales, while Mermaids don't. Furthermore, the orientation of their tail fins are different, with the Fishmen flns being vertical, and Mermaids' horizontal. I'm absolutely NOT a zoologist, but from what I can tell, this shows that Mermaids do not in-fact have fish lower-halves, but seal or whale-like lower halves, fitting with their mammalian designation.
They're probably based of the myth of selkies
@@afairyonacid I love that they made it apply to mermaids in general tho.
It seems more cohesive
I also love the all mermaids appear to have breasts, although it wasn't stated as male mermaids exist, I would like to think that they do, and that they have cloaca similar to birds.
And all develop breast to feed young.
@@afairyonacid Yo, so that means they're like the Selkie of West Skerrie depicted as a statue in Anvil in TES4: Oblivion!
Cetacean mermaids best mermaids
Nightmares being an extremely derived type of dragon is still so funny to me. If I had to guess, the shells are actually modified scales rather than the calcium based shells we're used to seeing in the real world
dayum, like, what lava snail produces?
If they'd be modified scales, it would probably be made of many many layers of keratin, i think!
I mentioned to my freind that them being related has the two horrific possibilities of dragon's being invertebrates or nightmares having spines
very small note for the kraken section: lemon sharks also have vertical pupils
Also, for the kobalt's resistance to snake venom, im pretty sure in the manga they mention that kobalt's originally come from a desert region. Maybe they interact with venomous snakes more because of that and developed a resistance? It's just a guess.
@@pantherenoire7937 They do. I had the same thought too but i don't want to jump to that conclusion because some humans / demi also live there yet they aren't venom resistant.
@@OutofPlaceZoologist
Maybe it's like the Inuit artic gene variant that helps them protect against the effects of a high fat diet, ie a long standing selective pressure on specific native populations in an environment.
@@pantherenoire7937may be worth noting that despite not being dogs, meerkats and mongeese are highly resistant to snake venom. Doses that would easily be lethal to a human are just bad wounds with non negligable symptoms, but not outright fatal to a meerkat or mongoose
Their resistence could also be a coincidence, mabe something in their biology simply makes them more resistand to this venom, without having evolved for this purpose.
I think one major difference with monsters in dungeon meshi is that they likely only need to be viable in their current form. In real life, a creature started off as some single cell organism, and then in it's entire evolution until now, every generation and every mutation needs to have remained viable and competitive to some extent otherwise it couldn't have continued to reproduce and evolve. But in the dungeon, the dungeon master can simply create monsters. As long as they're viable enough to survive and reproduce in the form that's created, then that's fine. Even if it's an odd thing to exist, if it in it's current state is able to survive and reproduce, then it works. A realistic path for evolution might not really be needed in this case.
EDIT: Sorry about my terminology, I'm obviously not educated in this area. I'm just thinking in context to how the dungeon works and the little I do know about evolution.
No worries, i understand what you mean. I think most would too
@@OutofPlaceZoologist
SPOILER
when the next person became the Dungeon Lord, they designed walking Mushrooms with Flowers growing on them.
The Crew instantly recognized that this wouldn't work because the flower would be wilting the Mushroom
Actually if you thinking about it, then it's same with us and how we breeds our animals and plants that wouldn't really happen in normal environments, what difference is actually just we doing it in same species but the dungeon just used whatever as long as it serves it's purpose and be able to live where it is and procreate itself
I wish they had included the the nutrition breakdown as the ad splash card. Would be perfect for that.
Like the stand stats in JoJo
16:12 about the serpentes thing, I remember Laios explaining in the show that the chickens were actually the tails
Snakes, which with the addition of magic, grew entire chickens backwards where the lower body grows on other species.
I thought the living armor being a mollusk was the most inventive thing I've seen when it comes to fantasy biology. It's so good!
What finally got me to watch the anime was a clip of that and a clip of Marcelle using dark magic. I initially didn’t want to watch it because I didn’t think the story was going to be anything special. But the world building was just so novel that I had to see what it was about.
Maybe it’s a small thing for others, but I think the conservation of mass is an important thing to consider when designing a magic system. Full Metal Alchemist was one of the only shows to acknowledge conservation of mass. If everyone was able to just conjure water from magic, which itself seems to come from seemingly nowhere, then you’ll eventually run into a problem. So I really appreciate the fact that these authors try their best to not break rules of physics while building a world that feels possible. I feel more immersed when they do that.
i loved the part with the shape shifter so much because it's very on spot with kitsune/nine tailed fox legend where barking dispels their illusions
For the beginning, the best part of the characters at the beginning is that they break characters tropes. The human fighter is the weird one, the elf is the prissy city person, the dwarf is the environmentalist, the rogue hates violence. It's so good
The best part for me is that I didn't even pick up on this! I mean, yeah I picked up on the characters' races and personalities, but I never actually noticed that they were all such strong and specific inversions of the usual stereotypes until your comment because it all just felt so organic!!!
Like, *of course* Chilchuck isn't a fighter, he's fragile and his vast skillset alone justifies his position in the party! *Of course* Marcille is a prissy city-person, she's from an extremely wealthy and powerful family and has probably only ever known privilege. Et cetera, et cetera.
Ain't no way I saw Oberon in your fav character list, now I need to see a series on lostbelt biology.
About evolution... (POSSIBLE SPOILERS)
I believe that isn't as much of a concern for monsters in this world. AFAIK each monster species starts off as a magically-altered creature, and although the one doing the altering may have some pride in their craft, true selection pressure only applies once they escape into the wild and must reproduce naturally. (Or as naturally as you can get in an ultimately artificial dungeon environment...)
So, something like Dryad could be explained as an artificially created "ornamental plant" that escaped and became somewhat invasive.
Oh, also "ambient mana" seems to be a thing that lets the more powerful creatures found on lower floors seemingly ignore more of the laws of biology; I recall Laios talking about how a large dragon wouldn't be able to survive in a human town due to lack of mana. And it isn't just a handwave, it's actually implied to have sources and flows to it, not just from [REDACTED] but being produced by the metabolic processes of weaker monsters in upper floors, like slimes and walking mushrooms.
Indeed. That's what I'm talking about in the last part of the basilisk section. It's a spoiler which is why i don't talk about it in the video
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Hm... Personally, I don't see it as more of a spoiler than all the physical details you've already gone over, as long as you don't go into specific details. But I can see where you're coming from!
@@nnelg8139 The actual revelation itself had not happened in season 1 which is why i don't talk about it in the video
Thanks for putting the spoiler warning in your comment btw
@@OutofPlaceZoologist It actually does get explained in the anime with a visual representation. So while an actual demonstration isn't shown until chapter 68, you find out how basilisks are made in chapter 48, or episode 22 of the anime.
When Marcille explains how familiars are made, she says that you can modify/fuse plants and animals into monsters (but also that you can alternatively take control of one, implying that there are some naturally made monsters). That being said, I don't think too many picked up on that detail, nor do I think that moment later on will help some of those people understand it better.
16:35 - Funny thing is, TONS of depictions of Basilisks/Cockatrices (both historic and modern) simply depict them as a gigantic snake with a rooster's crest instead of a snake-tailed rooster, it's 100% possible Basilisks and Cockatrices are in fact a snake monster species in Dunmeshi! :D
38:30 - As for why the mimic doesn't just bail on the treasure chest, I personally believe the scene with Kabru's party being paralyzed by treasure bug venom was meant to be a hint to readers, namely that treasure bugs could very well have this paralyzing venom from the very moment they hatch and will just instinctively use it on anything unfortunate enough to come into direct contact with them, meaning the mimic actually CAN'T escape. Essentially, it's the parasitoid wasp's game plan but with the twist that it's the kids that do the paralyzing rather than the parents.
39:03 I think the answer to this question is more preference than safety. When a cat has caught a mouse (assuming that it intends to eat it at all), it will only eat the entire thing if it is really hungry, and gauges what it eats based on hunger level. Cats often avoid eating internal organs, sometimes only eating the head. Some leave the gizzard, which is strongly acidic. The fact that the kelpie leaves the liver behind is curious because cats do consider that to be very tasty. Perhaps kelpies have a strong aversion to bile?
Though they didn't show it, I assume because the adult mimic bugs have paralytic venom, a clutch of eggs would likely have them as well in some capacity. so if the mimic isn't aware that a clutch has hatched, they may be ambushed and paralyzed, left helpless to the newborn treasure bugs.
What comes to mind is parasitic creatures like Wax Moths who invade bee hives and lay their clutch. a healthy and attentive hive will dispatch the wax moth and its eggs, but one that is stressed or unhealthy for some reason will not notice, and when the larvae hatch, cause damage to the colony. Perhaps older Mimic, or those who are unhealthy for whatever reason are more prone to being infested with treasure bug eggs.
It is shown as Kabru and his party can attest
My brain just jump to the default real life logic and thought "there is no way a small insect can pierce a crustacean exoskeleton" so i didn't jump into that train of thought
But reading this makes me rearrange my view because this is not real life after all. They'll find a way
So yea i really like this explanation
@@OutofPlaceZoologist small insects need not pierce the exoskeleton.
Ants kill crabs by attacking the joints. Using this tactic they can take down even the largest crabs like coconut crabs as the crabs are helpless to stop them.
Terrestrial hermit crabs also have mites as a frequent parasite, and they feed off the crab in a similar way, targetting vulnerable areas on the crab's body.
A Treasure bug's lifestyle is more along the lines of a phorid fly, some of which are parasitoids which lays their eggs inside a host ant or for some species, bees bigger than they are, even killing the host in some cases like if there alot of phorid fly larvae or if the host is small, like an ant
1:03:30 YEAAAAAAAAAA GO OFF KING, LAIOS IS THE GOAT BECAUSE HE DOESN'T DO THE "HUMANS ARE DISEASE BLAH BLAH BLAH" WHILE BEING A MONSTER SNOB!!!! HE TRULY CARESSSSS HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS ABOUT YEAAAAAAAAH
By the way while you were discussing the fishmen I called my little sis over to show her the fish with "arm fins" and we talked about the basilisk and the snake with the spider tail, it was really nice, man :] thanks for letting me bond with my little sis in a fun way we both can relate to (as an animal fan AND a dungeon meshi fan)
My mom always says: people who hates animals also hates humans, plants and themselves. And it's true.
That Mersault jumpscare caught me so off-guard wtf. Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one who was hooked specifically by the monster ecology and biology
I love your last section about Laios and I completely agree with you. His statement about monsters being dangerous really made an impression on me too. That added so much to his character.
Not being able to read social cues is one thing, being an asshole is another thing. Too many people nowadays think being an asshole is cool. Luckily Laios is a good character that understands his own shortcomings and genuinely tries, as long as people explicitly tell him and not do the subtle social cues thing, he is very respectful to everyone. He is the perfect lovable dork character.
The Barometz, in shape and seeming, also comes from a very old legend/rumor from ignorant medieval people called The Vegetable Lamb Of Tartary. People were told cotton came from a plant but had no conception of plants with fibers like hair. So rumors started and were illuminated in natural histories with confident assurance, that cotton came from a sheep that grew like a plant. It's so weirdly niche, and yet Japan just happens to absorb the most wild and obscure stuff. This isn't even the only time a Vegetable Lamb Of Tartary is in a Japanese fantasy. In the PS2 game Odin Sphere one of the items you can use in adventure screens will grow a Vegetable Lamb Of Tartary you can then harvest meat from. It's like how Japan not only absorbed Kobolds, they absorbed specifically than ones in the narrow window of old D&D where the translation of the description could be just slightly off enough to make them dog people, which went into the smash hit franchise Wizardry, and then we get Kuro, the goodest boy.
Why would any organism exhibit mimicry aimed at humanoids? Because developing something that might help avoid destruction is helpful. I imagine they already had a flower that, by happenstance, at some point kind of looked humanoid and the ones that had EXTRA human looking parts were able to reproduce more because they were left alone wile the more vague flowers were destroyed on account of their spores being a massive allergen to humanoid species. Why didn't they develop less irritating pollen if humanoid intervention was such an issue? Some of them did, I'm sure. There's probably a common ancestor between a hyper-human flowerer and some looked-over dudgeon plant species that had a flower that looked like a head, a torso, two arms, and two legs. The amount of intervention from people with that exact set-up must have been absolutely astronomical to alter a plant like that by nature, so cultivation and oddities might have played a part before they got where we can see them in series.
That's an interesting idea
I like it
If i recall correctly, Dragons are classified that way because they're considered disasters by their sheer presence. the nightmare's ability to completely f-up a group mentally may be the reason it is classified as such.
I'm very happy to see a biology video on Dungeon meshi as that was what wrapped it's claws around me when I found out and started the series!
55:24, very specifically, I feel like I've seen a sea creature that looks EXACTLY like the sky fish but looking back, the closest example I think of is the Polychaete worm though I can't remember which specific type.
I don't remember the clam monster.
However, if I had to guess, it's probably classified as a dragon because there's a clam monster called a shen that may or may not be a dragon in disguise.
It's notable for having illusion powers.
Edit:
I should've watched the entire video before commenting. Lol.
Interestingly, there are other snail-dragons of mythology that the clam monster may also be based on. There's the japanese Shussebora and the european paintings of knights fighting giant snails.
Now THIS is what I needed today. (Positively, looking forward to more of your content already)
So, I’m not quite sure why I was recommended this video. Still watched it fully from beginning until end - you’re very entertaining, easy to understand, passionate of the topic, and well-spoken! It wasn’t until near the very end that I saw what the connection was…
Am I the first of Project Moon sleeper-agents commenting on this video? I saw that Angela png among your 5th category of characters you like, you can’t hide it from the denizens of The City.
The Invitations are sent, the Reception starts soon…
Surprisingly i've seen several comments about meursault jumpscare here
Could've never seen that coming since PM is kinda niche
Honestly, one thing I love is that even creatures that are more magical, they fill their own ecological niche
The changeling mushrooms spread largely by targeting social species that will get left behind by their groups if they look wrong
The Shapeshifter is a good example of the sorts of adaptations to feed primarially on humans, since we tend to get smarter with better tools, at least a little faster than a lot of species can adapt, so using that intellegence against us is a great strategy
I do agree that the Dryads aee just weird if you start thinking about it though 😂
Fun fact of a Dire Wolf, they weren't actually the "Wolf but Big" Fantasy usually shows, they were more like "Wolf but Pitbull" and went extinct because the prey they were specialized to hunt died out.
I thought the Barometz's inspiration was from the misinterpretation of cotton plants.
Without doing much research, I think that's the case. It'd make more sense that the plant got its name from the myth rather than the other way around (at least it makes more sense to me, especially given the actual plant has the "sheep" part at the bottom rather than the top).
(Possible spoiler?)
Given where most unicorns are depicted to exist, I do believe that the horns are being sawn off. Whether or not they are capable of regrowing them, given that unicorn horns are used to keep many sources of water purified throughout the dungeon, the horns would likely be sawed off once grown just because having easy access to water filtration is extremely useful.
i thought the skyfish was based on a "cyprid" called rods and i use quotation marks because even most hardcore beliers admit they're BS
i’m no expert but maybe the snake part of the basilisk lives longer because the lungs are in the snake part
I just assumed its not drawn because it would be to cluttered, but if its deliberate then that is indeed the logical explanation
@@OutofPlaceZoologistthe lungs are actually labeled in the basilisk anatomy cross-section. It’s right next to the snake stomach.
@@gavinbrown216 For the chicken part i mean
Just like liver is not labeled for the snake part but it is for the chicken part
18:12 they’re clearly either nudibranchs or slugs with hermit crab habits.
So if they were to be mollusks they’d be in Gastropoda!
Here’s a nudibranch that looks very similar to the living armor! ua-cam.com/video/Tt1QANIdoLo/v-deo.htmlsi=EqGvqK08vTfEnyh4
In the manga they are stated to have adductor muscle, so it would not be a nudibranch (at least not our real world nudibranch)
@@OutofPlaceZoologist oh…their eyes stocks do remind me of conches though.
The incubating snake animation killed me, you earned a sub right there.
I love your insight and thought process about a lot of the monster featured in the manga. I only know somewhat about mythology and fantasy monster so most of the time I didn't really think much of how they work and why they evolve in such a way because "that's just how they do in the myth"
Edited because I accidentally pressed enter too early
Great Video, I hope you make more videos in different kinds of medias, I kinda hope an indepth look on Monster Classes in Monster Hunter and seeing which kinds are in that classification
40:01 well, cats do it too! From the house cat to the leopards!
Cats chatter to get birds & leopards mimic the cries of baby monkeys.
There are apparently also reports of tigers mimicking deer calls to attractthem
since you mentioned your taste, here are some recs for psychological and mystery manga that you'll probably enjoy but might not have heard of because of their demographics:
- double
- limit
- helter skelter
- 7 seeds
- mystery to iu nakare
- mitarai-ke, enjou suru
- shigeshoushi
3:25 Mersault jumpscare
Excellent video! It's exactly the kind of Dungeon Meshi analysis I was hoping to find.
Hot water is usually a good way to stop the stings as it disables the shooting muscles and denatures the venom.
Are you completely sure in your statement that hot water disables the shooting muscles?
@@OutofPlaceZoologisthe didn’t say HOW hot that water is🙃
@@stevendorries That's fair i guess smileyface
@@stevendorries I mean the stingers won't get you if you get boiled.
As a biology student I did showed my Zoology professor the manga and the shell part as well the tentacles
THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE VIDEO !!!! CANNOT WAIT FOR THE NEXT ONE :3
I really enjoyed this video and your breakdown.
Perhaps another video covering the second half of the series in the future?
How did i miss the video i suggested, also, great video there
I like to think that a slime would have a brain so it could avoid trying to eat fire (which occurs in the dungeon both naturally and due to adventurers) without needing to get close enough to get hurt.
18:12 Also they were only just discovered so maybe you could make the argument it simply hasn't been possible to classify it yet
31:30 Could've also just been cause the lungs were on the snake side
I just assumed its not drawn because it would be to cluttered, but if its deliberate then that is indeed the logical explanation
The Barometz was definitely inspired by the The Vegetable Lamb of Tartary myth.
I'm confused why they didn't go with Dungeon Dining for the English title. I feel it would've worked better.
5:07 Funny thing is that I was seeing cut shorts from the anime for a while and not getting me interested, but then there was a short of episode 3 and I immediately got to go know what was it to watch it
You get a follow seeing your taste at 2:02
I only watched the anime so far, (Mainly because I can't get a hold of manga very easily) but when I heard that the entirety of what I saw was just considered to be an appetizer, my mind shut down for a while, and I had to watch the vid a second time to find out what I missed.
Edit: I just finished reading the manga, and I only have one thing to say... HOLY SHI-
31:40 my theory about the Basilisk is that the snake lives longer because it has the lings, and maybe in difficult situations it has other structures to pump blood as the heart would. I'm not a biologist but I think it may be more difficult to oxygenate blood than pump it for backup mechanisms despite our societies focus on the heart.
I don't like some choices in the localization.
For example during the Griffon episode the English subtitles completely ignored the central point of the oeigin of the meat and called it from another completely different species.
Even when every localization of Dungeon Meshi manga correctly called the meat what it is.
Good video also I didn't know you liked Project Moon.
Eve
took me a while to find the pm sleeper agent this time, kim jihoon be with you
This so much
18:52 i think the reason they are categorized together is specifically because what it takes to over come , that large amount of magical power they possess and them not being intelligent
Nightmare fore you to face inner demons and has a similar mental strain as you would trying to physically overcome a dragon
42:52 Many shark species have vertical slit eyes but they are often too dilated to tell. I think they are especially prominent on ground sharks like catsharks, blacknose shark, and tiger sharks.
The nightmares being dragons reminds me of barnacles and how people thought they were mollusks until they realized years later that they were crustaceans, which then lead Darwin to study barnacles to better understand where they might go, which then frustrated him to the point where he declared "I hate a barnacle as no man ever did before." I wonder if any dungeon ecologist cried themselves to sleep next to a tank of nightmares.
quickest 1 hour of my life omg
The Meursault jumpscare gave me psychic damage
The Cockatrice ang Basilisk being Serpents is cool. Despite what we actually see, we may think the bird is the main body but the snake "tail" is the actual body. Technically its a snake with a mutated tail that became the Cockatrice and the Basilisk
Man I can’t believe we found the real life Laios
Did he find the Mangaka's blog? She's still adding stuff.
Great vid, was very riveting!
Dungeon meshi not only cares about how "realistic" the animals could be,
But Also how they would interact with each other in an ecosystem
If you do a subnautica video my life is yours! It’s one of my favorites games, I’m ocean obsessed and desperately want more scientific and biologic focused videos about it!
The only reason i'm against the thought is i believe there are lots of such videos already (from marine biologists even) that my insights would be redundant
Basilisks Chicken side doesnt appear to have lungs. It could be as simple as it could still breaths while bleeding to death. While the chicken side asphyxiates.
meursault cameo
There's something that I really think you'd enjoy! It's a game called Rain World, it's a survival game where you play as a little animal in an abandoned world. I can't really say much more because anything I could mention I consider kind of a spoiler, despite there not being a super accessible story unless you figure out the mechanism in which you get the lore. I'll just say that you should definitely try it!
I really enjoyed this content! I wish you didn’t have the put your disclaimer at the beginning about your option… I understand why, and that’s what’s disappointing.
As for ideas for similar content. I would love to see your take on Monster Hunter. It “feels” realistic with its ecology and such, but I’m curious on your take and opinions!
I actually made a video talking about monster hunter, although specifically about the species concept and classification.
I find it redundant to talk about the previous games because there are a whole series of books on zoologists thought on them and there are lots of dedicated channels (kinda) that talk about the actual in universe ecology
I do plan on reviewing stuffs on MH wild when its released since it'll be "fresh" insights
I love your friend's response
You: are you sure I'll like this
Her (with wise sage voice and a halo for added effect): Yes.
I believe the "skyfish" familiar shape was inspired by the "flying rod" cryptids
I think the reason the Snake lives longer is that the lungs are in the snake part.
This was a fascinating video.
herpetologists are my fave zoologists
Unrelated but I love your deer icon ❤
Almost none of the monsters make sense as something that would evolve through competitive advantage, but even the wacky ones that don't even fit in their kingdom make sense if you think about them as engineered organisms. The monsters didn't come about as a function of nature, they were invented by the imaginations of natural creatures who wanted them for a specific purpose.
A successful dungeon lord doesn't just place the monsters, they also have to make the collection of monsters self-sustaining, or the ecosystem will run at a net loss and constantly need to be replenished.
Dryad Flowers being human-looking, motile organisms that tempt explorers and then kill them is a ridiculous and wasteful lifecycle, but someone thought it was cool or scary, so now they exist in this world and serve to fix key nutrients that wouldn't be available to their biome otherwise, even though there are better candidates for the niche.
1:01:10 YOOOOO AL SAIDUQE, N, HOUSE?!? You got some good tastes my man.
Can't believe someone actually know alcor in 2024
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Bro Devil Survivor 1 and 2 are my jam, and SAIDUQE/Alcor is one of my favorite characters.
Devil Survivor needs either a rerelease on Switch/Other Consols, a remaster, or a 3rd game, because the series is heavily underrated and SMT5V really put the wind back in Atlus’ sails.
What separates a colony organism like manowar from a multicellular organism like humans? are they an example of the middleground that could have been happening in evolution between single celled organisms and multicellular life?
I think the lines are a bit blurry. The thing about biological categories is they are man made. Any hard definition we try to establish will run into some kind of problem. Even the definition of life has challenges. There are at least 123 different definitions of life because none perfectly describe everything we consider to be alive while excluding everything we don’t consider to be alive.
Some consider the existence of specialized cells, the ability to separate and survive, and the ability to reproduce independently to be functions of colonial organisms. But I’m sure you can find examples that are exceptions to this rule.
@AlliePaints What @connorgrynol9021 said is correct
To put more focus on your specific question:
Let's say you know what a lion looks like. Then you see an animal that looks like two or even more lion joined together. You would most likely think that is indeed two lions joined together (somehow, someway).
That's how it is with colonial hydrozoan. Each polyp looks like the "typical" Cnidarian polyp, so those that knew about Cnidarian polyp would most likely think those are several polyps somehow joined together and performing as a single colonial entity.
Somewhere in the evolutionary process, before a colonial hydrozoan became the colonial hydrozoan that we now know, those different polyps might just actually be different individuals that stick together and mutually symbiotic. As time goes by, they started "aggregating" with each other.
So it's like how a single cell organism might evolved into multicellular organism, but upscaled.
That's oversimplification of course, but i hope that's a clear enough explanation.
I would also like to clarify that those are theories. We don't really know how they actually evolve because we can't observe them. Not enough clue (yet, at least)
My favourite neurodivergent main character
Laios is *very* autistic-coded but in a respectful way that is rarely seen in any media. Not sure he's my fav though. Frieren is a tough competitor.
I had the same impressions about the manga at first and I only started reading it once the anime was announced haha. Glad I did though
The dryad might be a mimic evolution. Like some non-poisonous animals mimic their poisonous counterparts without the downside of spending resources to actually produce the poison/venom. Also who are the 2 girls at the bottom in the second column(the one who has house and L) 1:01:00 ?
The front most is Faust from Limbus Company, behind her (to the right of the screen) is Binah / Garion from Lobotomy Corporation / Library of Ruina (same universe)
@@OutofPlaceZoologist Thank you very much
about the basilicks, did you notice where are the lungs in the body? i think that is the answer.
29:34
the snake part has the lungs
without the snake the chicken suffocates cutting the snake off from the rooster cuts through its stomach so it starves to death even if it’s healed
I also finished the whole manga between episode 3 and 4 dropping 😂
31:40 maybe the snake lives more because the lungs are in the "snake side"? If they somehow dont bleed out before it...
Doesn't the snake half of the cockatrice live longer bc that's the half with lungs? Or am I reading that diagram wrong?
Marcille is best anime elf to date! Can't wait for Season2 she'll become darker 😂
you talk like my math teacher mister sho. i like zoos
12:28 It is hard to be a Dragonslayers Ornstein fan in this show because you get to watch him get dismembered, cooked, and eaten alive in 4k HD.
Can you talk about mystery manga that let’s you think along with them?
Laios as Todd Howard! XD
Reading the manga i felt like the creatures in the dungeon are made b, magic, but the creatures are the most efficient if they take the natural path. Like, they can't really work, without bei g a part of an ecosystem or a greater context.
artificial insemination for minotaurs definitely gonna be craaaaazy. I got a flashback about the first time I see a picture of artificial insemination on cows on my highschool textbook. like, oh my god that farmer's hand went so deep 😭
laios has a youtube channel now?
Actual Meursault Jumpscare
Nightmares are to dragons as barnacles would be to mimics, maybe?
I thought the Living armor look alot like Scallops
Adorei o vídeo
Your friend is really a queen for recomending and insisting that its good, because then you watched before spoilers.
You wouldve probably come across some spoiler of episode 10 and it wouldve ruined the surprise. This anime is really good, and i want to read the manga aswell