Many tend to simplify saying that romans "copied" greek religion, but that is not that at all. We can find the same religious archetypes ( a god of thunder, a god of war etc). in almost every indo-european belief system.
When the Romans incorporated Greek mythology, one of the most noticable changes they made was to remove most of the father-killing. A staple of Greek mythology, was too disruptive for Rome. Older gods tended to retire or fade into obscurity, not killed by the next generation.
That is extremely interesting! Could you maybe elaborate more on it? Like which stories were changed? The killing of uranos and chronos? And do you happen to know any sources? I'd really like to know. Thank's in advance.
@@yaruqadishi8326 Sorry, I am from Germany. Therefore I spelled it in my native tongue. Although, I checked and Wikipedia at least spells chronos the same way in German and English. All in all I don't think, that it really matters how you spell the two as they originate from the Greek and we only use translations. Nontheless, thank you for the clarification. I forgot that even in the original stories the two were not really killed but simply defeated. Chronos got banished to the Tartarus if I remember correctly and Uranos lost his primary se*ual organ, right? Cheers for the answer. Have a nice day.
Is also intetesting how romans sacralized certain aspects of the state and politics. The goddess Concordia and her temple were created after the end of the conflicts between patricians and plebeians.
Jupiter: “Cut off a head.” Numa: “An onion.” Jupiter: “Of a man.” Numa: “A man’s hair.” Jupiter: “A life.” Numa: “Of a fish.” Jupiter: “Listen here, you little shit-“
this show well how Roman religion was lived through the respect of rules, more than about what one believe.. Juppiter was not precise and Numa respond to him like a lawyer that defend his people.. don't forget they create a system of law that was a real exception at that time (..many things to say about this connection..)
Fun fact, while “Romanus pontifex” and “summus pontifex” are the official titles of the pope of the Roman Catholic Church, “pontifex maximus” has also been used by many popes, especially amidst the enthusiasm for classical history and culture during the Renaissance.
There was a humanist and poet,who was actually a bishop during the pontificate of Leo X who wrote an epic poem in Latin called the "Christiad" -it is in 6 books and its style is pure Vergil the famous ancient Roman poet and based on his "Aeneid" in it the figures in the Christian narrative are treated as if they were pagan Roman gods and demigods.The book was published in 1535.Such things would not have been possible after the Council of Trent when.because of the Protestant Reformation, the church became very sensitive to this type of thing.Poet's name was Marco Girolamo Vida who is best remembered for another Latin epic poem called "The Game of Chess."
That's not very surprising considering that for all effects and purposes the RCC is a remnant institution of the empire, and even the HRE was seen as resurrection of the empire in the western half of the continent.
Fortuna, a primordial native italic goddess, was so loved by romans and italians as a whole that remained popular as a quasi-angelic figure even in christian times. Severinus Boezius in his magnum opus dialogue "Consolation Philosophiae" had her in a prominent role, and the concept of fortune as a picky woman draggin unfortunate mortals across her wheel remained a popular image across the medieval art
One thing not touched on here is that the Greek and Roman pantheons would have likely been somewhat similar even without any direct contact, due to common Proto-Indo-European origin. Jupiter and Zeus, for example, both originate etymologically from PIE Deus-Pater, a Sky-Father god, and there are a number of other similarities suggested by comparative linguistics as well. Of course, there would've been a lot of differences by the 400sBC, due to both to cultural drift and non-PIE influences (such as the Etruscans from the Romans, and Anatolians or Pre-Greek peoples on the Greeks), but my personal belief has always been that a main reason the syncretism happened so smoothly and comprehensively was due underlying inherited religious similarities.
Then Anatolians were PIE also :) at least by the time the Greeks go down into what is now Greece. Hittites, as well as a host of other PIE languages ( which means culture as well, although an admixture of the older inhabitants as well)
Yes, gods can be demoted in importance in different cultures. The Hindu equivalent of Zeus/Jupiter/Odin is Dyaus, now an obscure sky god, whereas as Herakles, Hercules, Thor is represented by Indra, relatively impotrant.
@@forthrightgambitia1032 actually there is Ganesh that is also an equivalent of Thor ( as the good son) and Thor is often portrayed as the norse counterpart to Zeus/Jupiter do to him being the sky god and the thunder/lighting god ( note the weapons of each/gods of rain and lightning) Odin is closer to Aries/Mars then The sky god.
I would really like to recommend Rüpke's Pantheon: A New History of Roman Religion with regards to a fascinating perspective on Rome's religious development.
*Fun fact:* There was a time in Rome in which the cult of the goddess Isis, one of the most popular pre-Greeks cults that existed, was banned during the reign of Tiberius. This prohibition was due to a really curious anecdote: There was a beautiful noblewoman who worshiped Isis. An equestrian man was so attracted to her that he offered her 2,500 gold coins for just spending one night together, which only caused her a deep indignation. After being rejected, the equestrian man went to the temple of Isis and bribed the priests to tell the noblewoman that Anubis was going to appear that night in the temple and had directly chosen her as his companion. The woman believed everything she was told and, when she went to the temple at nightfall, she met the equestrian man (who had disguised himself as Anubis) and f*cked with him throughout the night. After spending several days bragging about having slept with a God, the noblewoman was visited by the equestrian man, who told her: "What we did the other night was really magnificent. I wish you hadn't called me Anubis all the time, but at least I didn't pay you anything at the end 😉". Realizing in horror what she had done, the noblewoman and her husband went to Tiberius' palace in order to protest. The emperor then punished the priests by destroying their temple and forbidding the worship of Isis. Despite this prohibition, many people continued to worship her in secrecy, including the future emperor Caligula, although he later renounced his faith to her and declared himself a God after Isis did not save his sister and lover Drusilla from death, despite promising he would build a gigantic temple for the goddess
@@Vladklx He was a man of the equestrian order. Those are referred to as Knights by historians today because they essentially were knights and inspired the Knighthood of the Middle Ages
Numa Pompilius reigned 715-672 BC) was the legendary second king of Rome, succeeding Romulus. Numa was descended of the Sabines, who declare themselves to be a colony of the Lacedaemonians (Plutarch). Many of Rome's most important religious and political institutions are attributed to him, as this excellent video refers.
For folks whose curiosity often takes them off the beaten trail, there's Kings and Generals. And it's always very well presented. If they taught history like this when I was in high school I might have taken more interest in it.
Something to note about Mars, is that he seems to be more like a Thorr in archaic roman religion. I barely remember the scholar who pointed out that he used to be connected with lightning and thunder, while Juppiter was the personification of the heavens. That is why Mars is so prevalent in the tale of Romulus and Remus.
@@kaloarepo288 There are agriculturat elements within Mars, you are correct. He might've been the storm deity, the god that developed from Perkunos, and also he was the God of the Warrior Band, so, yes, he was a War God, but not like Ares, more like Zeus.
My grandfather said once, in Italian; “Pare che Giove Pluvio abbia deciso di scatenare le sue intemperie.”, when we got stuck on the road in the middle of a rainstorm from hell. I’ll always remember that saying. It means, in English; “It seems as though Pluvial Jupiter has decided to unleash his intemperances.”.
Do you have anything regarding ancient Celtic religions? I know the source materials are extremely scarce and frequently biased, but I'd be interested in learning more. Honestly, for me, the harder it is to learn about a people (generally the further back in time one goes), the more intrigued I am about them. Love your channel!
This is really interesting! This is a topic that I had no idea was even a thing, particularly given the fact that Roman Religion is often thought off merely as a cheap copy of the Greek one. Now I know this is much more complex. As always, great job.
By far, I think one of the greatest or at least most unique book upon Roman Religion relative to Roman government and society has to be Mr. Fustel de Coulanges' The Ancient City (1864). Though it must be somewhat outdated in scholarship, the book remains one of the most fascinating through its discussion of roman religion away from the stereotypical pantheon and rather focuses upon domestic religion namely relating to the Lares, Manes, and Penates (as well as their connection to the hearth or vesta) in both Rome and Greece. The central importance of the ideas originating from the ancient religion (before the ideas of Elysian Fields, pantheons, and the such) can be demonstrated by a few quotes from the book: "A verse of Pindar has preserved to us a curious vestige of the thoughts of those ancient generations. Phrixus had been compelled to quit Greece. and had fled as far as Colchis. He had died in that country; but, dead though he was, he wished to return to Greece. He appeared, therefore, to Pelias, and directed him to go to Colchis and bring away his soul. Doubtless this soul regretted the soil of its native country, and the tomb of its family; but being attached to its corporeal remains, it could not quit Colchis without them." "Men feared death less than the privation of burial; for rest and eternal happiness were at stake. We ought not to be too much surprised at seeing the Athenians put generals to death, who, after a naval victory, had neglected to bury the dead. These generals, disciples of philosophers, distinguished clearly between the soul and the body, and as they did not believe that the fate of the one was connected with the fate of the other, it appeared to them of very little consequence whether a body was decomposed in the earth or in the water. Therefore they did not brave the tempest for the vain formality of collecting and burying their dead. But the multitude, who, even at Athens, still clung to the ancient doctrines, accused these generals of impiety, and had them put to death. By their victory they had saved Athens; but by their impiety they had lost thousands of souls." "The Romans gave to the dead the name of Manes. “Render to the manes what is due them,” says Cicero; “they are men who have quitted this life; consider them as divine beings.” These human souls deified by death were what the Greeks called demons, or heroes. The Latins gave them the name of Lares, Manes, Genii. “Our ancestors believed,” says Apuleius “that the Manes, when they were malignant, were to be called larvae; they called them Lares when they were benevolent and propitious.” Elsewhere we read, “Genius and Lar is the same being; so our ancestors believed.” And in Cicero, “Those that the Greeks called demons we call Lares.” "It often happened that colonists or conquerors established themselves in a city already built. They had not to build houses, for nothing opposed their occupying those of the vanquished; but they had to perform the ceremony of foundation - that is, to establish their sacred fires, and to fix their national gods in their new home. This explains the statements of Thucydides and Herodotus that the Dorians founded Lacedaemon, and the Ionians Miletus, though these two tribes found Lacedaemon and Miletus built and already very ancient." "At one time the tribunes of the people proposed, as Rome, devastated by the Gauls, was no longer anything but a heap of ruins, and as, five leagues distant, there was a city all built, large, beautiful, well situated, and without inhabitants, - since the Romans had conquered it, - that the people should abandon the ruins of Rome, and remove to Veii. But the pious Camillus replied, “Our city was religiously founded; the gods themselves pointed out the place, and took up their abode here with our fathers. Ruined as it is, it still remains the dwelling of our national gods.” And the Romans remained at Rome." "Besides these gods and heroes, men had gods of another species, like Jupiter, Juno, and Minerva, towards whom the aspect of nature had directed their thoughts; but we have seen that these creations of human intelligence had for a long time the character of domestic or local divinities. At first men did not conceive of these gods as watching over the whole human race. They believed that each one of them belonged in particular to a family or a city. The names of many of these divinities are forgotten; it is by chance that there have remained the names of the god Satrapes, who belonged to the city of Elis, of the goddess Dindymene at Thebes, of Soteira at Ægium, of Britomartis in Crete, of Hyblaea at Hybla. The names of Zeus, Athene, Hera, Jupiter, Minerva, and Neptune are better known to us, and we know that they were often applied to these city-guarding divinities; but because two cities happened to apply the same name to their god, we are not to conclude that they adored the same god. There was an Athene at Athens, and there was one at Sparta; but they were two goddesses. A great number of cities had a Jupiter as a city-protecting divinity. There were as many Jupiters as there were cities. In the legend of the Trojan war we see a Pallas who fights for the Greeks, and there is among the Trojans another Pallas, who receives their worship and protects her worshippers. Would any one say that it was the same divinity who figured in both armies? Certainly not; for the ancients did not attribute the gift of ubiquity to their gods. The cities of Argos and Samos had each a Here Polias, but it was not the same goddess, for she was represented in the two cities with very different attributes. There was at Rome a Juno; at a distance of five leagues, the city of Veii had another. So little were they the same divinity that we see the dictator Camillus, while besieging Veii, address himself to the Juno of the enemy, to induce her to abandon the Etruscan city and pass into his camp. "
I don't know whether his opinions are consistent with modern scholarship, but in any case these are *extremely* interesting viewpoints. Thank you very much for your comment!
@@jasondoe2596 Hi Jason, as Mr. Coulanges himself has said "History is not an easy science [...] For us, if we have not been stopped by the profound feeling of the difficulties of our task, it is because we think the sincere search of truth always contains utility. Should we have only illuminated previously neglected points, should we only have succeeded at attracting attention on obscure problems, our labor will not be undone. And we could still believe in our right to say that we have worked, for the sake of Man, towards the progress of historical science, and towards the comprehension of human nature." General modern scholarship, at least the ones I've usually seen, rarely touches upon this subject. I have seen some articles discussing certain detail aspects of how certain hypothesized household deities may not exist like the Lars familiaris, but the general framework has not been entirely disproven or even challenged. I have suggested such a work not because of its essential truth, but to "illuminated previously neglected points" which have already been discovered, but became obscured over time. Coulanges work in the past have inspired similar analysis techniques from other authors such as Mr. Lafcadio Hearn's Japan, An Attempt at Interpretation (1905) which has been used by the US government to more closely understand Japanese culture so as to properly implement a post-WW2 occupation scheme. Unfortunately, interest and discussion of Mr. Coulanges' work has died out since the early 20th century outside of France, but I hope this comment may lead more onto this path of having a broader perspective. His other work, History of the Political Institutions of Ancient France is still widely respected in French Medieval Age studies, though it is even more obscured, and unfortunately yet to be translated into English.
Fact :- In 113 BCE Ambassador of Greek king Heliodorus erected Garuna stambh ( known as Heliodorus pillar ) in Vidisha district of India in the honour of God Vishnu
@@alexanderrahl7034 Yes.. Greeks have very strong relations with India in past... One of the Greatest Indian king Chandragupta ( Sandrocottos in greek )'s wife was Greek princes Helena" (daughter of Selucas nicator who was the general of Alexander the great and later the king of Seleucid empire )
@@Shubham-vr5ye Greeks obtained their military elephants as a result of a treaty with Chandragupta and the Greek Seleucid kings based in Syria (Antioch) set up a huge rearing and training camp for elephants near the city of Apamea -after that Greeks used elephants in many battles like king Pyrrhus of Epirus when he invaded Italy and took on the Romans.Greek Seleucids also used elephants to put down the Jewish Maccabean Revolt and in the "Book of Maccabees" it is reported how a heroic Jewish soldier got under an elephant and stabbed it killing both himself and the elephant.
@@kaloarepo288 wow...the Greeks really enjoyed these ancient tanks.. I've always wondered from where Hannibal got his elephants..Since the African species is larger, more aggressive and difficult to tame.. his elephants may have been from Asia but again Hannibal was rebellious and he was in Africa for him It is very difficult to obtain these valuable war assets from Asia to North Africa without being captured by the Romans.
The Pre-Greek influenced Roman religion shares a common heritage with Greek and other Indo-European cultures. For example, the gods Jupiter (Iupiter páter in Latin) and Zeus páter evolved from the term "djous patēr" ("sky father").
Actually the word djous pater means father of god's instead of sky father The word deos/devos/djous is common in all Indo European (except Germanic ones) Lang's and stands for god or a powerful being.
Actually the word djous pater means father of god's instead of sky father The word deos/devos/djous is common in all Indo European (except Germanic ones) Lang's and stands for god or a powerful being.
@@AdityaGupta-nz4me Is _Djous_ a corruption of _*Dyēws,_ the “sky” (or “to spark”) or of the other PIE word _Deywos_. If it’s a corruption of _Deywos_ then you might be right. From what I remember, Proto Indo-Europeans used _Deywos_ as a term to mean Deity or God. Therefore Deus, Devas, and the Germanic Tìwaz descend from that word. So it would be “God-Father or Father of Gods”-or if it descends from _*Dyēws_ then it would mean “Sky-Father”? Correct me if I’m wrong.
I was surprised by how little I've actually thought about this. Thank you for yet another fascinating video. I would love to learn more about the Etruscans! Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you friends! ✝️ :)
11:20 Romulus and Remus' arguments between them are summarized like this: Remus: "I want to do this in my way, brother" Romulus: "Ok. We will make a little competition. The one who wins decides the plan to follow, ok?" Remus: "That's fair..." *5 minutes later* Remus after losing: "I am not going to follow your plan. Let's make another competition!" Romulus: 🤦 *Repeat the process*
Our Ancient History Teacher taught the class about the Vestal Virgins & their influence on Roman Religion & it was fascinating. Our Teacher is a chad when it comes to teaching ancient history. I always loved History whether it is Ancient, Medieval or Modern. Thx for the awesome videos as always K&G.
Really interesting as always. However, it must be said that Rose's thesis, the so-called "primitivist school" has been debunked by Dumezil's "trifunctional thesis", whereby the idea of a "numen" applied to the Roman religion in the terms of Rose would contradict the obvious argument concerning the legacy of the Roman religion from Indo-European religion. As the latter had already passed this phase (the numen), it would be illogical to think that archaic Romans (latin-Faliscan were italic Indoeuropean peoples) downgraded to a religious vision even more primitive than their Indo-European ancestors, just to develop again a new organized religion.
Separation from the older larger culture group into its own tribe (latin pastoralists) causes the divergence, later as the roman state emerges as independent, and centralization begins, the push for a new faith emerges. While you may be right and it might not have been necessarily more "primitive", it certainly makes sense that it wasn't always progressing forward without some back steps taking place in the process.
You're assuming that the Proto Indo Europeans were one monolithic society. Italic(Italo-Celtic) peoples, Hellenic peoples and Aryan peoples are descended from separate Indo European tribes, you could see this in their different Y chromosomes. This is also the case archeologically, Italo-Celts descend from Bell Beaker, Hellenics from Late Yamna and Aryans from Sintashta.
@@admontblanc and the Etruscans who gave Rome : Togas Gladiators the Senate Chariot races Oracles Roads and much more say thanks for forgetting Romes REAL founders
An important religious roman festival was the Lupercalia. The name Lupercalia was believed in antiquity to evince some connection with the Ancient Greek festival of the Arcadian Lykaia, a wolf festival (Greek: λύκος, lýkos; Latin: lupus), and the worship of Lycaean Pan, assumed to be a Greek equivalent to Faunus, as instituted by Evander. Justin describes a cult image of "the Lycaean god, whom the Greeks call Pan and the Romans Lupercus", as nude, save for a goatskin girdle. In Roman mythology, Evander (from Greek Εὔανδρος Euandros, "good man" or "strong man": an etymology used by poets to emphasize the hero's virtue) was a culture hero from Arcadia, Greece, who was said to have brought the Greek pantheon, laws, and alphabet to Italy, where he founded the city of Pallantium on the future site of Palatine Hill, Rome, sixty years before the Trojan War. He instituted the festival of the Lupercalia. Evander was deified after his death and an altar was constructed to him on the Aventine Hill.
Keep wishing. Rome was not Greek. However, Rome conquered Greece and made Greeks become fanatical Romans. Greek identity was replaced by Roman identity until 1821.
@@legioromanaxvii7644 Without Greece, Rome would have been nothing more than just another local italian people.They step upon the Greek foundations to build their own achievements. Rome was a city, Greek was already an entire established world, before the Roman dominion. At one point after the Roman conquest, the two became one, a Greco-Roman world. And the Greeks became Romans, as Rome was becoming hellenized. In some sense the Greeks gave their civilization to Rome, and the Greeks continue the Roman Empire, after the Fall of the first Rome.
@@pseudomonas03 Without Rome, there would be no Greek language today (because Romans protected the Greek language, making it language of their society along with Latin). Without Rome, there would be no Greek literature, no Greeks today and no Eastern Orthodoxy. Both Greece and Rome became one, but a lot of Greeks today say negative things about Rome. Without one or the other, neither would exist.
@@legioromanaxvii7644 come on ... Romans didn't protect Greek language neither Greek literature. Romans were conquered by Greek literature ,art, philosophy ecc. Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit et artes intulit agresti Latiο. Oratio Epistolarum, II,1,156 Greece, once conquered, in turn conquered its uncivilized conqueror, and brought the arts to rustic Latium (Horace)
Not a single mention of Janus? Perhaps the only real roman god who isn''t influenced from greek culture? The god on the first coins? The god after whom a whole month from the calendar was named? For real?!?!
Happily, I watched the vid. Excellent! A little known subject brought to life and into the light. Outstanding! Production value is of the highest quality. Keep up the great work.
I once read somewhere that the name "Jupiter" was formed from "Zeus Pater". Sort of makes sense. As well, Richard Armour, the satirist, said that it's lucky that Romulus killed Remus because had it been the other way around the name of the city would have been Reme.
It comes from Dyeus Pater (a very primordial indo-european god which literally means "heavenly father") not a some rock this video tries to imply. The word Jupiter though is a cognate with Zeus as well as Thor. All those names come from this oldest indo-european god.
Yes this is true. I am from Greece and i can understand all those synthetic words. Jupiter Zeus Pater ( Ζεύς Πατήρ) Theus Pater (Θεός Πατέρας) means Father God. Also: Piter - Pater - Fater - Father. All those words are based Greek% stop the Indo-European theory, is false
Great topic. I saw an “authoritative statement” recently that insisted that all Roman gods were anthropomorphic, probably by a kid who heard only about the Hellenic-Roman pantheon once. What nonsense, many, many Roman gods were numinous, especially before the Roman adoption of the Hellenic pantheon.
@@imperator7828 Maybe "transformed" is a better word but yeah the old gods were well out of favor, which people forget when they blame Christianity (tbf I used to too). Christianity just won the race for a replacement. Mithra and Sol were huge.
I'm surprised they didn't go more into depth of Rome's founding myth. Leaving out Romulus killed Remus is a big thing, but hopefully in their future videos they'll go further into the story and how it impacted Rome's cultural practices.
I think you simply have to look at the rape of the Sabine women to understand how early ancient Romans thought. Their industrialization of the slave trade is simply an extension of that ancient desire to dominate.
Pallantium was the city was founded by Evander of Pallene and other ancient Greeks sometime previous to the Trojan War.[1] In addition, Dionysius of Halicarnassus writes that Romans say that the city was founded by Greeks from Pallantium of Arcadia, about sixty years before the Trojan war and the leader was Evander.[2]Solinus writes that the Arcadians were the founders of the city.[3] The myth of the city's origin was significant in ancient Roman mythology because Pallantium became one of the cities that was merged later into ancient Rome, thereby tying Rome's origins to the ancient Greek heroes. Other cities in the area were founded by various Italic tribes. Virgil states that Evander named the city in honor of his ancestor, Pallas,[4] although Pausanias as well as Dionysius of Halicarnassus[5] say that Evander's birth city was Pallantium, and thus he named the new city after the one in Arcadia. Dionysius of Halicarnassus also mentions that some writers, including Polybius of Megalopolis, say that the town was named after Pallas, who was the son of Heracles and Lavinia, the daughter of Evander, and when he died his grandfather raised a tomb to him on the hill and called the place Pallantium, after him.[6] The origin of Rome and the composition of its people are worthy of remark. They explain the particular character of its policy, and the exceptional part that fell to it from the beginning in the midst of other cities. The Roman race was strangely mixed. The principal element was Latin, and originally from Alba; but these Albans themselves, according to traditions which no criticism authorizes us to reject, were composed of two associated, but not confounded, populations. One was the aboriginal race, real Latins. The other was of foreign origin, and was said to have come from Troy with Aeneas, the priest-founder; it was, to all appearance, not numerous, but was influential from the worship and the institutions which it had brought with it. These Albans, a mixture of two races, founded Rome on a spot where another city had already been built - Pallantium, founded by the Greeks. Now, the population of Pallantium remained in the new city, and the rites of the Greek worship were preserved there. There was also, where the Capitol afterwards stood, a city which was said to have been founded by Hercules, the families of which remained distinct from the rest of the Roman population during the entire continuance of the republic. Thus at Rome all races were associated and mingled; there were Latins, Trojans, and Greeks; there were, a little later, Sabines, and Etruscans. Of the several hills, the Palatine was the Latin city, after having been the city of Evander. The Capitoline, after having been the dwelling-place of the companions of Hercules, became the home of the Sabines of Tatius. The Quirinal received its name from the Sabine Quirites, or from the Sabine god Quirinus. The Coelian hill appears to have been inhabited from the beginning by Etruscans. Rome did not seem to be a single city; it appeared like a confederation of several cities, each one of which was attached by its origin to another confederation. It was the centre where the Latins, Etruscans, Sabellians, and Greeks met. --Numa Denis Fustel de Coulanges, The Ancient City, 311 ReferencesEdit ^ Aeneid, viii^ Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Roman Antiquities, 1.45.1^ Solinus, Polyhistor, 1.1^ Aeneid 8.54^ Roman Antiquities, i. 31^ Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Roman Antiquities, 1.32.1 External linksEditThe Ancient City (pdf) at the McMaster Archive
Nothing more than outlying Roman folklore from the later Roman Republic. Only Greek ultranationalists seriously believe that Greeks founded the city of Rome.
@@legioromanaxvii7644 sure pall Emperor Antoninus Priscus who ,declair part of Pelloponese, tax free to honor Evander of Pallantium the " Grate Ansestor of the Romans " was Greek ultranationalist also ,as Ms Marion Mc Donald who concluded that Latin, is coming direct from Greek language, she's also as Virgil,Numas and other Roman authors who claimed that ,as " Accidentaly " at all Etruscan ruler of Rome Tarqunius Priscus had a Greek father Demaratus from Corinth ,Pope and the Vatican create a separate history and later qglobal Elit finish the job with the Ridiculous " Indo-European pseudotheory " as about ultra nationalism is a term lost its meaning today completely one with German flag or Julius Ceazar Face in his profile can stick you a stick who is written on if " Be careful " Greek ultra Nationalist,put you I n the same level with some Balcanic trolls but True is LIGHT no matter when is coming up and *Internet is 4he coin with the double options
@@eliaspapanikolaou3563 Dear Elias, your comment is only barely 1 minute old and you have already given yourself a thumbs-up. How sad. You have no idea about history and it is obvious. Latin is not coming directly from Greek and many ancient Romans actually loathed the Greeks. There was even a term in ancient Rome that highlighted the Roman superiority complex over the Greeks. Graeculus Γραικύλος which means, little Greekling. Now if you look at the byzantine sources, many Byzantines were saying that were descended from Italy. So you are in fact, Roman offspring :)
@@eliaspapanikolaou3563 Dear confused friend, in medieval Greek (Rhomeika language), there were 5000 words of Latin origin being used by the Eastern Romans. Today, many Latin loanwords can be found in modern Greek, like krebati, fournos, porta, balbida, freno, maestros, filtro and hundreds more :-)
@@legioromanaxvii7644 dear confused friend Byzantine s say the opposite thatold Roman's deshendent from Greece 🇬🇷 and that's why call the inhabitants of the Italian Peninsula Latins or Italians and never all them Roman's, even in video of Kings and General s before a month Byzantine scholars say it CLEARLY I read my self Many Original" Byzantine " texts in Greek that they say " We are Roman's, in Legacy but we belong to Hellenic nation and to the Greek tribe"
Indeed, romans didn't copy everything from the greeks. They had their own vision and the etruscans were also very influent. Also, like Dumezil wrote, many of these religious views in Europe may come from the proto-indoeuropean faith, that's why there are similarities between pantheons like the hellenic and norse ones. But romans also had original gods that the greeks didn't have, like the two-faced god Janus and Quirinus
Lucius Tarquinius Priscus, or Tarquin the Elder, was the legendary fifth king of Rome and first of its Etruscan dynasty. He reigned from 616 to 579 BC. He was prohibited from obtaining political office in Etruria because of the ethnicity of his father Demaratus, so Lucius Tarquinius Priscus became king of Rome. Demaratus,from Doric royal house of Bachiade, came from the Greek city of Corinth with his entourage,architects,poets,potters ecc,and brought art and religion and myths in Tarquinia. Demaratus became through his sons the ancestor of the Roman race of Tarquinia and the ancestor of many noble Roman families. His descendants were three kings of Rome and the first two advisers when the Roman Republic was proclaimed.
Etruscans had a very different pantheon before they met us when we colonised the southern part of Italy. They had Gods and Goddesses like: Aita - God of the Underworld Alpan - spirit of Harmony Athrpa - Goddess of Fate Catha - the daughter of the Sun Cel - Earth Goddess Culsu - double-faced God of Gates Laran - God of War Nortia - Goddess of Fate, protector of plagues and disasters. Silvanus - God of the forests Tages - revealed to the humans the secrets of religious rites. Tharn - Goddess protector of the children Tivr - Goddess of the Moon Turan - Goddess of love Turnu - son of the Goddess of love Uni - Goddess of Fire Vanth - female demon associated with Death. Veltha - Goddess of vegetation/agriculture Usil - The Sun God … etc When Romans conquered Hellas, Hellas conquered them with its civilisation! They adopted our Pantheon and changed the names: Zeus became Jupiter Hera became Juno Athena became Minerva Aphrodite became Venus Ares became Mars Poseidon became Neptune Demeter became Ceres Hestia became Vesta Hermes became Mercury Hephaestus became Vulcan Other deities like: Eros became Cupid Nike became Victoria Persephone became Proserpine The oldest Etruscan God of Sun was replaced with the beliefs of the Titans. Usil, the Sun God was replaced with Sol Invictus, the invincible Sun. The Titan Helios from the Hellenic mythology.
Everything you said was false. Romans already worshipped Jupiter before they conquered Greece. They already worshipped ALL their gods before they conquered Greece. Their gods are native to them. They didn't copy form the Greeks. They equated the Greek gods with their own gods because they saw the similarities.
@@minutemansam1214 again, go again to school and study History again! Hellenes colonised Italy before Italy was a thing! We colonised the southern part of Italy BEFORE the creation of the Roman Empire and BEFORE they conquer us!!! Can you understand this??? Etruscans had the Gods I wrote you above! They had a different style in their statues! Etruscans got influenced by us at some point and then when the Romans conquered Hellas they fully adopted our religion!
@@minutemansam1214 you are miseducated! Etruscans are the ancestors of the Italians! Etruscans had very different Gods from us! They had Gods and Goddesses like: Aita - God of the Underworld Alpan - spirit of Harmony Athrpa - Goddess of Fate Catha - the daughter of the Sun Cel - Earth Goddess Culsu - double-faced God of Gates Laran - God of War Nortia - Goddess of Fate, protector of plagues and disasters. Silvanus - God of the forests Tages - revealed to the humans the secrets of religious rites. Tharn - Goddess protector of the children Tivr - Goddess of the Moon Turan - Goddess of love Turnu - son of the Goddess of love Uni - Goddess of Fire Vanth - female demon associated with Death. Veltha - Goddess of vegetation/agriculture Usil - The Sun God … etc When we colonised the southern part of Italy they influenced by us and adopted our pantheon! They adopted “some” of our stories😂😂😂 What stories are original Italian/Roman/Etruscan? Do you not any? Romans studied OUR mythology, Stories, poems, Historiography… and translated them to Latin. They each Roman poet created a version of our stories! Ovid’s writings confuse today’s people because he wrote his version of our Theogony (the genesis of our Gods) Virgil studied the Iliad and inspired to write the Aeneid and he claimed the Aeneas from Troy founded Rome to give more mythical origin to Rome!!! Rome is 99% Hellas🇬🇷
@Fgff maybe this is why they say that the Northern Italians are more stiff and grim and the Southern Italians are more warm-hearted and inviting people… 🤷🏻♂️🇬🇷
@@Kolious_Thrace I think you are the one who should study more. The gods that the romans adopted from greece either kept their names or slightly adapted to latin phonology, like Apollo or Aesculapius. There are many other gods that didn't have a greek origin, including Jupiter, Mars, Iuno and Diana, just to name a few. These gods were interpreted by the greeks as Zeus, Ares, Hera and Artemis because they covered similar roles in their pantheon. Not perfectly equivalent though. Zeus was much more focused on its role of father, Jupiter on it's role of lawmaker. Ares was more focused on violent human nature, often for the sake of violence, while Mars on the violent nature of youth redirected in service of the community. And so on.
Funny thing I found once when researching the origin of my given name is that Mars’s might have come from an Etruscan or Oscan god named Maris, depicted as a child and with an unknown sphere of power.
Indeed. Syncreticism broke the orginal cultural continuity yet the ancients loved to practice it wherever they went. It's really amazing how fluid religion and spirituality was back then vs how calcified it's become now.
They are the same Gods, it's extremely funny how you people who do not even worship the Gods make statements about our religion, The ancient philosophers, scholars and teachers acknowledged this fact that we worship the same Gods but now charlatans are claiming that "Muh, they were different Gods, Muh because Different names, cultures, traditions etc."
I'm not sure there is such a thing as Roman religion "before the Greeks." Roman religion developed concurrently and intertwined with what we're calling "Greek polytheism" here. Rome didn't have to conquer Greece to adopt religious practices. They were closely linked to Greek cities from the kingdom era and early Republic. For instance, the first Roman road was a direct link to Cumae and Naples. The last king of Rome exiled himself to Cumae and was the grandson of a Corinthian. The Etruscans, Romans, and Italian Greeks, and others, all drew upon a shared heritage back to Homer. You can see this in their art and pottery from early periods, and such. Etruscan, Greek, and Latin cities always claimed a Homeric legendary founder of their cities. These peoples were never isolated entities.
That is true but Hellenism's influence before the late republic was not as massive as it was during the late republic and imperial period. Pre late republic Romans were very careful with cultural imports from the Greeks and Etruscans.
Ive always wondered if Rome itself was a mix of Greeks and Etruscans before the mythic kings or a dominance of one over the other which overtime separated from their cousins.
@@jasonmuniz-contreras6630 Was it? I realize you could never figure this out through DNA because they were too good at incorporating foreign populations, but would the DNA show the original latins to be some Celto-Hellenic-Etruscan mix or a unique Isletic genetics?
@@silencemeviolateme6076 greeks colonized SOME parts of southern italy, surely not Latium (where the latins are from). trying to cancel preroman italic civilisations is not cool.
@@lenase7396 Ok, then where did the Latins come from? I think we make a mistake trying to view these places as ethnicly bound nation-states. They weren't they were amalgamations of different tribes. So it may be more accurate to describe the Latins as a league of unrelated tribes living in the region who joined under one banner. Think more like the Iroquois League.
At last, a good video explaining the originality of ancient Roman religion. There is a widespread misconception insinuating that Roman religion was just a watered down version of Greek religion. It is about time that we dispel this misinformation once and for all.
They were a branch of the Indo-European religion. But exactly what slant unique to the Romans is very interesting. We know the Latin and Celtic languages split and could look at the Celtic religions for possible insight.
The Romans held in high regard two brothers who were plumbers. Known for their ability to jump high and with great precision. Avid coin collectors. They also had a fondness for mushrooms. When the circumstances demanded they could fly, shoot fireballs, run at extreme speeds, and even temporarily ignore all manner of personal injury. Truly the Super Mario Brothers are the finest sons of Italy the world has ever known.
The channel is called Kings and Generals, no Priest and Farmers always have been focused in war and conflicts with a special place for culture and religious things but mainly focused in war, don't expect other
@@josesoria2072 They have often done videos on economics and religion and daily life of people, so, no, Kings and Generals do cover Priests and Farmers.
Are you guys going to do a video on just the sacrificial practices of the Roman's? Some them, especially the mythraic ones, are downright crazy to read about.
Early Roman history is maddeningly fascinating. Unlike the Indus or the Minoans (that we know of) this place came to shape history like almost no other, but it was born in mists and shadows. I'd give my left nut to know exactly what happened during their first couple centuries.
Archaeologists have painted that picture for us, so we don't have to speculate that much. We have tracked them from their humble beginnings. Minoans are a much older and more advanced civilization than the Myceneans-Greeks, Classical Greeks and Romans. They found in Akrotiri in Santorini a perfectly preserved sample of their city and it was packed with 2-3 floor villas that had bathrooms on the upper floors with plumbing. Their walls had wooden wedges inside them that provided amazing earhquake protection. Much more exciting and fascinating how these people where more ancient yet more advanced in many ways from everything that followed. Platos lost Atlantis was probably describing Santorini's ancient harbour as well that fitted the description of circles of land and water mass and the cataclysmic event that submerged it and practically ended the Minoans.
If Roman and Greek religion came before Christianity, wouldn’t that invalidate Christianity? I mean, what makes the Christian God more legit than the multiple Greek and Roman gods since Greek and Roman gods came first?
The people decide that not the deities. The people and the state by and large chose Christianity willing over the religions of there forefathers and so it remains today.
The thing with a lot of historians is, unless they've actually taken metaphysics and theological classes, you take their viewpoint on religion with a grain of salt. Much of polytheistic religion is the collection of high ideals to aim for---embodied in the form of man. And then to call this or that one a god means they are of the highest values to aim for. The modes of ritual, while it may sound odd to us in this point in time at first sight, is not actually that odd. Rather the rituals are means of imitation and getting into the zone of what it means to be this or that type of god. Is this god characterized by strength? Brutality? Wealth? So on and so forth? So too the worshippers put themselves into ritual to imitate this god. To add, the means of worship including putting in the food below their altar is a sign of sacrifice to accomplish these characteristic or traits. The same applies for monotheism. By the claims of Monotheists that these gods are all false ones means one thing simple: These gods are not the highest ideal that, part of it, encompasses the mode of action of man in truth. There is One that's so far above and will always be true regardless when man goes extinct or not. This is essentially the claim of hardcore monotheists. As to what is this Highest one, it's impossible to give it a name, so to give it a name would limit it, so we call this a deferential name that's not it's real name, but a way to point to this Infinite Truth. Note, religion is not a joke, nor optional. It's the motivating force of man and of this reality.
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Why not make a new channel for such topics call it M&R mythologies and religions like wizards and sorcerers?
Please continue the series on crime syndicates
Make a video about the history of the Russian mafia and the Yakuza
Are you guys looking to go into the NFT marketplace in the future?
Thank You for telling me this. I've always wondered who was there, before Jupiter, Juno, Mars, and Venus
Many tend to simplify saying that romans "copied" greek religion, but that is not that at all. We can find the same religious archetypes ( a god of thunder, a god of war etc). in almost every indo-european belief system.
God of War I don't know but God of Thunder, yeah
Not copied, more like same origin of indo european civilization, you will find similarities everywhere and it is not by any chance
@@Wow22109 True
Interestingly, the ancient Armenians also has the same pantheon as greeks
@@Wow22109 with same names?
When the Romans incorporated Greek mythology, one of the most noticable changes they made was to remove most of the father-killing. A staple of Greek mythology, was too disruptive for Rome. Older gods tended to retire or fade into obscurity, not killed by the next generation.
Though they had the same religions and mythos tales and Customs in general. It wasn't a so integration as you are saying.
That is extremely interesting! Could you maybe elaborate more on it? Like which stories were changed? The killing of uranos and chronos?
And do you happen to know any sources?
I'd really like to know. Thank's in advance.
@@hamsaa6283 there's no killing but destructive defeat. And it's Oranos(Uranus) and Kronos not "chronus".
@@yaruqadishi8326 Sorry, I am from Germany. Therefore I spelled it in my native tongue. Although, I checked and Wikipedia at least spells chronos the same way in German and English.
All in all I don't think, that it really matters how you spell the two as they originate from the Greek and we only use translations.
Nontheless, thank you for the clarification. I forgot that even in the original stories the two were not really killed but simply defeated.
Chronos got banished to the Tartarus if I remember correctly and Uranos lost his primary se*ual organ, right?
Cheers for the answer. Have a nice day.
@@hamsaa6283 actually it does matter cuz you're speaking to the Greek where Kronos comes from not Germany.
Is also intetesting how romans sacralized certain aspects of the state and politics. The goddess Concordia and her temple were created after the end of the conflicts between patricians and plebeians.
Not to mention, the God Terminus, who was a representation of the empire's borders
@@RexGalilae then they instituted thr cult to the emperor, declaring them gods by the Senate.
@@holyfreak86
Typical Romans, practical almost to a fault lol
Now, I understand the etimology of discordia and concordia
The converse is equally interesting: how we secularized the state and politics over time
Jupiter: “Cut off a head.”
Numa: “An onion.”
Jupiter: “Of a man.”
Numa: “A man’s hair.”
Jupiter: “A life.”
Numa: “Of a fish.”
Jupiter: “Listen here, you little shit-“
Abraham: "Noted"
I found that part both hilarious and interesting lol
Lol
this show well how Roman religion was lived through the respect of rules, more than about what one believe.. Juppiter was not precise and Numa respond to him like a lawyer that defend his people.. don't forget they create a system of law that was a real exception at that time (..many things to say about this connection..)
Numa didn't want to killed anybody
These religion episodes are really interesting. Hope you do more like these and cover Manichaeism and other ancient cults!
Do you have any other content on Manichaeism you could point to?
Fun fact, while “Romanus pontifex” and “summus pontifex” are the official titles of the pope of the Roman Catholic Church, “pontifex maximus” has also been used by many popes, especially amidst the enthusiasm for classical history and culture during the Renaissance.
There was a humanist and poet,who was actually a bishop during the pontificate of Leo X who wrote an epic poem in Latin called the "Christiad" -it is in 6 books and its style is pure Vergil the famous ancient Roman poet and based on his "Aeneid" in it the figures in the Christian narrative are treated as if they were pagan Roman gods and demigods.The book was published in 1535.Such things would not have been possible after the Council of Trent when.because of the Protestant Reformation, the church became very sensitive to this type of thing.Poet's name was Marco Girolamo Vida who is best remembered for another Latin epic poem called "The Game of Chess."
That's not very surprising considering that for all effects and purposes the RCC is a remnant institution of the empire, and even the HRE was seen as resurrection of the empire in the western half of the continent.
Fortuna, a primordial native italic goddess, was so loved by romans and italians as a whole that remained popular as a quasi-angelic figure even in christian times. Severinus Boezius in his magnum opus dialogue "Consolation Philosophiae" had her in a prominent role, and the concept of fortune as a picky woman draggin unfortunate mortals across her wheel remained a popular image across the medieval art
One thing not touched on here is that the Greek and Roman pantheons would have likely been somewhat similar even without any direct contact, due to common Proto-Indo-European origin. Jupiter and Zeus, for example, both originate etymologically from PIE Deus-Pater, a Sky-Father god, and there are a number of other similarities suggested by comparative linguistics as well.
Of course, there would've been a lot of differences by the 400sBC, due to both to cultural drift and non-PIE influences (such as the Etruscans from the Romans, and Anatolians or Pre-Greek peoples on the Greeks), but my personal belief has always been that a main reason the syncretism happened so smoothly and comprehensively was due underlying inherited religious similarities.
Also Rome was influenced by Greek colonies before Greece itself.
I was going to comment this, thanks for saying it more eloquently.
Then Anatolians were PIE also :) at least by the time the Greeks go down into what is now Greece. Hittites, as well as a host of other PIE languages ( which means culture as well, although an admixture of the older inhabitants as well)
Yes, gods can be demoted in importance in different cultures. The Hindu equivalent of Zeus/Jupiter/Odin is Dyaus, now an obscure sky god, whereas as Herakles, Hercules, Thor is represented by Indra, relatively impotrant.
@@forthrightgambitia1032 actually there is Ganesh that is also an equivalent of Thor ( as the good son) and Thor is often portrayed as the norse counterpart to Zeus/Jupiter do to him being the sky god and the thunder/lighting god ( note the weapons of each/gods of rain and lightning) Odin is closer to Aries/Mars then The sky god.
I would really like to recommend Rüpke's Pantheon: A New History of Roman Religion with regards to a fascinating perspective on Rome's religious development.
That may explain the evidently greater stability of the roman polity compared to other polities.
The book looks good but it's a little pricey, even on eBay
This was the most hilariously fitting sponsorship segment yet. I legit laughed out loud.
*Fun fact:* There was a time in Rome in which the cult of the goddess Isis, one of the most popular pre-Greeks cults that existed, was banned during the reign of Tiberius. This prohibition was due to a really curious anecdote: There was a beautiful noblewoman who worshiped Isis. An equestrian man was so attracted to her that he offered her 2,500 gold coins for just spending one night together, which only caused her a deep indignation. After being rejected, the equestrian man went to the temple of Isis and bribed the priests to tell the noblewoman that Anubis was going to appear that night in the temple and had directly chosen her as his companion. The woman believed everything she was told and, when she went to the temple at nightfall, she met the equestrian man (who had disguised himself as Anubis) and f*cked with him throughout the night. After spending several days bragging about having slept with a God, the noblewoman was visited by the equestrian man, who told her: "What we did the other night was really magnificent. I wish you hadn't called me Anubis all the time, but at least I didn't pay you anything at the end 😉". Realizing in horror what she had done, the noblewoman and her husband went to Tiberius' palace in order to protest. The emperor then punished the priests by destroying their temple and forbidding the worship of Isis. Despite this prohibition, many people continued to worship her in secrecy, including the future emperor Caligula, although he later renounced his faith to her and declared himself a God after Isis did not save his sister and lover Drusilla from death, despite promising he would build a gigantic temple for the goddess
Not knight maybe a elite soldier..
Knight is a name give for elite Christian soldiers..
@@Vladklx Its what historians call the middle class in roman times - equites translates to knights in english
@@Vladklx
He was a man of the equestrian order. Those are referred to as Knights by historians today because they essentially were knights and inspired the Knighthood of the Middle Ages
So sleeping with God is fine & proud thing. Why do a God would want woman? Humans are funny & stpid.
@@RexGalilae very interesting.
Can't wait for the remaining episodes! And it would be great to see more series on different world religions!
yes, please!
Numa Pompilius reigned 715-672 BC) was the legendary second king of Rome, succeeding Romulus. Numa was descended of the Sabines, who declare themselves to be a colony of the Lacedaemonians (Plutarch).
Many of Rome's most important religious and political institutions are attributed to him, as this excellent video refers.
For folks whose curiosity often takes them off the beaten trail, there's Kings and Generals. And it's always very well presented. If they taught history like this when I was in high school I might have taken more interest in it.
That is not the purpose of public education.
@@tsriftsal3581 how would you know you slept through it all
@@sfbuck415 wish it were possible.
/Close to 20k hours looking at the past. Seems like it was a waste.
pretty hit or miss on the accuracy though
@@hawkinsstern5356 well make your own video then. and provide your own sources so we can check your accuracy.
Something to note about Mars, is that he seems to be more like a Thorr in archaic roman religion. I barely remember the scholar who pointed out that he used to be connected with lightning and thunder, while Juppiter was the personification of the heavens. That is why Mars is so prevalent in the tale of Romulus and Remus.
yes, jupiter is the latin name for the indo-european sky father, and war gods usually stem from thunder gods
I think that Mars was originally an agricultural deity who was responsible for demarcating the boundaries of fields -later turned into a war god.
@@kaloarepo288
There are agriculturat elements within Mars, you are correct. He might've been the storm deity, the god that developed from Perkunos, and also he was the God of the Warrior Band, so, yes, he was a War God, but not like Ares, more like Zeus.
My grandfather said once, in Italian; “Pare che Giove Pluvio abbia deciso di scatenare le sue intemperie.”, when we got stuck on the road in the middle of a rainstorm from hell. I’ll always remember that saying. It means, in English; “It seems as though Pluvial Jupiter has decided to unleash his intemperances.”.
Love your videos man. You go in-depth and explain history in a way that makes it easy to retain. Thank you for your dedication
Do you have anything regarding ancient Celtic religions? I know the source materials are extremely scarce and frequently biased, but I'd be interested in learning more. Honestly, for me, the harder it is to learn about a people (generally the further back in time one goes), the more intrigued I am about them. Love your channel!
Biased ?
@@Voidapparate think of the Romans or Greeks calling 'Keltoi' "Barbari" or viewing them as rivals and dehumanising them in their written accounts
@@Doyle141 Wouldn't historians account for that?
@@Voidapparate He said the source material is biased, not the historical research.
Great Video! Specially because you brought the etruscans into it. I'd really like to see more about pre-indo-european history like the etruscans.
This is really interesting! This is a topic that I had no idea was even a thing, particularly given the fact that Roman Religion is often thought off merely as a cheap copy of the Greek one. Now I know this is much more complex. As always, great job.
Reality tends to be more complex than our fantasy :)
Did you not see the earlier vid on Etruscan religion?
@@dubuyajay9964 Who are you talking to?
@@MrStn Sorry, that should have been Kuro.
@@dubuyajay9964 I did not.
By far, I think one of the greatest or at least most unique book upon Roman Religion relative to Roman government and society has to be Mr. Fustel de Coulanges' The Ancient City (1864). Though it must be somewhat outdated in scholarship, the book remains one of the most fascinating through its discussion of roman religion away from the stereotypical pantheon and rather focuses upon domestic religion namely relating to the Lares, Manes, and Penates (as well as their connection to the hearth or vesta) in both Rome and Greece.
The central importance of the ideas originating from the ancient religion (before the ideas of Elysian Fields, pantheons, and the such) can be demonstrated by a few quotes from the book:
"A verse of Pindar has preserved to us a curious vestige of the thoughts of those ancient generations. Phrixus had been compelled to quit Greece. and had fled as far as Colchis. He had died in that country; but, dead though he was, he wished to return to Greece. He appeared, therefore, to Pelias, and directed him to go to Colchis and bring away his soul. Doubtless this soul regretted the soil of its native country, and the tomb of its family; but being attached to its corporeal remains, it could not quit Colchis without them."
"Men feared death less than the privation of burial; for rest and eternal happiness were at stake. We ought not to be too much surprised at seeing the Athenians put generals to death, who, after a naval victory, had neglected to bury the dead. These generals, disciples of philosophers, distinguished clearly between the soul and the body, and as they did not believe that the fate of the one was connected with the fate of the other, it appeared to them of very little consequence whether a body was decomposed in the earth or in the water. Therefore they did not brave the tempest for the vain formality of collecting and burying their dead. But the multitude, who, even at Athens, still clung to the ancient doctrines, accused these generals of impiety, and had them put to death. By their victory they had saved Athens; but by their impiety they had lost thousands of souls."
"The Romans gave to the dead the name of Manes. “Render to the manes what is
due them,” says Cicero; “they are men who have quitted this life; consider them as divine beings.” These human souls deified by death were what the Greeks called demons, or heroes. The Latins gave them the name of Lares, Manes, Genii. “Our ancestors believed,” says Apuleius “that the Manes, when they were malignant, were to be called larvae; they called them Lares when they were benevolent and propitious.” Elsewhere we read, “Genius and Lar is the same being; so our ancestors believed.” And in Cicero, “Those that the Greeks called demons we call Lares.”
"It often happened that colonists or conquerors established themselves in a city already built. They had not to build houses, for nothing opposed their occupying those of the vanquished; but they had to perform the ceremony of foundation - that is, to establish their sacred fires, and to fix their national gods in their new home. This explains the statements of Thucydides and Herodotus that the Dorians founded Lacedaemon, and the Ionians Miletus, though these two tribes found Lacedaemon and Miletus built and already very ancient."
"At one time the tribunes of the people proposed, as Rome, devastated by the Gauls, was no longer anything but a heap of ruins, and as, five leagues distant, there was a city all built, large, beautiful, well situated, and without inhabitants, - since the Romans had conquered it, - that the people should abandon the ruins of Rome, and remove to Veii. But the pious Camillus replied, “Our city was religiously founded; the gods themselves pointed out the place, and took up their abode here with our fathers. Ruined as it is, it still remains the dwelling of our national gods.” And the Romans remained at Rome."
"Besides these gods and heroes, men had gods of another species, like Jupiter, Juno,
and Minerva, towards whom the aspect of nature had directed their thoughts; but we have seen that these creations of human intelligence had for a long time the character of domestic or local divinities. At first men did not conceive of these gods as watching over the whole human race. They believed that each one of them belonged in particular to a family or a city. The names of many of these divinities are forgotten; it is by chance that there have remained the names of the god Satrapes, who belonged to the city of Elis, of the goddess Dindymene at Thebes, of Soteira at Ægium, of Britomartis in Crete, of Hyblaea at Hybla. The names of Zeus, Athene, Hera, Jupiter, Minerva, and Neptune are better known to us, and we know that they were often applied to these city-guarding divinities; but because two cities happened to apply the same name to their god, we are not to conclude that they adored the same god. There was an Athene at Athens, and there was one at Sparta; but they were two goddesses. A great number of cities had a Jupiter as a city-protecting divinity. There were as many Jupiters as there were cities. In the legend of the Trojan war we see a Pallas who fights for the Greeks, and there is among the Trojans another Pallas, who receives their worship and protects her worshippers. Would any one say that it was the same divinity who figured in both armies? Certainly not; for the ancients did not attribute the gift of ubiquity to their gods. The cities of Argos and Samos had each a Here Polias, but it was not the same goddess, for she was represented in the two cities with very different attributes. There was at Rome a Juno; at a distance of five leagues, the city of Veii had another. So little were they the same divinity that we see the dictator Camillus, while besieging Veii, address himself to the Juno of the enemy, to induce her to abandon the Etruscan city and pass into his camp. "
I don't know whether his opinions are consistent with modern scholarship, but in any case these are *extremely* interesting viewpoints.
Thank you very much for your comment!
@@jasondoe2596 Hi Jason, as Mr. Coulanges himself has said "History is not an easy science [...] For us, if we have not been stopped by the profound feeling of the difficulties of our task, it is because we think the sincere search of truth always contains utility. Should we have only illuminated previously neglected points, should we only have succeeded at attracting attention on obscure problems, our labor will not be undone. And we could still believe in our right to say that we have worked, for the sake of Man, towards the progress of historical science, and towards the comprehension of human nature."
General modern scholarship, at least the ones I've usually seen, rarely touches upon this subject. I have seen some articles discussing certain detail aspects of how certain hypothesized household deities may not exist like the Lars familiaris, but the general framework has not been entirely disproven or even challenged. I have suggested such a work not because of its essential truth, but to "illuminated previously neglected points" which have already been discovered, but became obscured over time.
Coulanges work in the past have inspired similar analysis techniques from other authors such as Mr. Lafcadio Hearn's Japan, An Attempt at Interpretation (1905) which has been used by the US government to more closely understand Japanese culture so as to properly implement a post-WW2 occupation scheme.
Unfortunately, interest and discussion of Mr. Coulanges' work has died out since the early 20th century outside of France, but I hope this comment may lead more onto this path of having a broader perspective. His other work, History of the Political Institutions of Ancient France is still widely respected in French Medieval Age studies, though it is even more obscured, and unfortunately yet to be translated into English.
Fact :-
In 113 BCE Ambassador of Greek king Heliodorus erected Garuna stambh ( known as Heliodorus pillar ) in Vidisha district of India in the honour of God Vishnu
That's super cool
I learned a while back that in ancient Greece, something like 10% of the population was Buddhist
@@alexanderrahl7034 Yes..
Greeks have very strong relations with India in past...
One of the Greatest Indian king Chandragupta ( Sandrocottos in greek )'s wife was Greek princes Helena" (daughter of Selucas nicator who was the general of Alexander the great and later the king of Seleucid empire )
@@Shubham-vr5ye OK
@@Shubham-vr5ye Greeks obtained their military elephants as a result of a treaty with Chandragupta and the Greek Seleucid kings based in Syria (Antioch) set up a huge rearing and training camp for elephants near the city of Apamea -after that Greeks used elephants in many battles like king Pyrrhus of Epirus when he invaded Italy and took on the Romans.Greek Seleucids also used elephants to put down the Jewish Maccabean Revolt and in the "Book of Maccabees" it is reported how a heroic Jewish soldier got under an elephant and stabbed it killing both himself and the elephant.
@@kaloarepo288 wow...the Greeks really enjoyed these ancient tanks..
I've always wondered from where Hannibal got his elephants..Since the African species is larger, more aggressive and difficult to tame.. his elephants may have been from Asia but again Hannibal was rebellious and he was in Africa for him It is very difficult to obtain these valuable war assets from Asia to North Africa without being captured by the Romans.
The Pre-Greek influenced Roman religion shares a common heritage with Greek and other Indo-European cultures. For example, the gods Jupiter (Iupiter páter in Latin) and Zeus páter evolved from the term "djous patēr" ("sky father").
Comparative Mythology is awesome
Actually the word djous pater means father of god's instead of sky father
The word deos/devos/djous is common in all Indo European (except Germanic ones) Lang's and stands for god or a powerful being.
Actually the word djous pater means father of god's instead of sky father
The word deos/devos/djous is common in all Indo European (except Germanic ones) Lang's and stands for god or a powerful being.
@@AdityaGupta-nz4me
Is _Djous_ a corruption of _*Dyēws,_ the “sky” (or “to spark”) or of the other PIE word _Deywos_. If it’s a corruption of _Deywos_ then you might be right.
From what I remember, Proto Indo-Europeans used _Deywos_ as a term to mean Deity or God. Therefore Deus, Devas, and the Germanic Tìwaz descend from that word.
So it would be “God-Father or Father of Gods”-or if it descends from _*Dyēws_ then it would mean “Sky-Father”? Correct me if I’m wrong.
@@stanfromuzbekistan8282 no you're correct🙏🏽
6:20 I’m sure they worshipped Numen by chanting, “Numa Numa Yei”.
That's Romanian mythology, not Roman
I was surprised by how little I've actually thought about this. Thank you for yet another fascinating video. I would love to learn more about the Etruscans!
Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you friends! ✝️ :)
Omg omg omg I can’t believe this video just dropped! I did so much research into this early this year and it wasn’t easy!
Truly fascinating stuff! Ancient battles get the majority of attention today but mythology and the details of daily life are quite intriguing.
11:20 Romulus and Remus' arguments between them are summarized like this:
Remus: "I want to do this in my way, brother"
Romulus: "Ok. We will make a little competition. The one who wins decides the plan to follow, ok?"
Remus: "That's fair..."
*5 minutes later*
Remus after losing: "I am not going to follow your plan. Let's make another competition!"
Romulus: 🤦
*Repeat the process*
Romulus and Remus, Cain and Abel, Osiris and Seth.
@@holyfreak86 Don't forget Caracalla and Geta. The fact Geta was murdered in front of their mother makes that tragic event even more sad
Our Ancient History Teacher taught the class about the Vestal Virgins & their influence on Roman Religion & it was
fascinating. Our Teacher is a chad when it comes to teaching ancient history.
I always loved History whether it is Ancient, Medieval or Modern.
Thx for the awesome videos as always K&G.
Really interesting as always. However, it must be said that Rose's thesis, the so-called "primitivist school" has been debunked by Dumezil's "trifunctional thesis", whereby the idea of a "numen" applied to the Roman religion in the terms of Rose would contradict the obvious argument concerning the legacy of the Roman religion from Indo-European religion. As the latter had already passed this phase (the numen), it would be illogical to think that archaic Romans (latin-Faliscan were italic Indoeuropean peoples) downgraded to a religious vision even more primitive than their Indo-European ancestors, just to develop again a new organized religion.
Separation from the older larger culture group into its own tribe (latin pastoralists) causes the divergence, later as the roman state emerges as independent, and centralization begins, the push for a new faith emerges. While you may be right and it might not have been necessarily more "primitive", it certainly makes sense that it wasn't always progressing forward without some back steps taking place in the process.
You're assuming that the Proto Indo Europeans were one monolithic society. Italic(Italo-Celtic) peoples, Hellenic peoples and Aryan peoples are descended from separate Indo European tribes, you could see this in their different Y chromosomes. This is also the case archeologically, Italo-Celts descend from Bell Beaker, Hellenics from Late Yamna and Aryans from Sintashta.
@@admontblanc and the Etruscans who gave Rome : Togas Gladiators the Senate Chariot races Oracles Roads and much more say thanks for forgetting Romes REAL founders
@@jasonmuniz-contreras6630 Absolutely Correct! Impressive.
Finally an ad that is just right for me, thanks Kings and Generals!
11:52 Man trolled the hell out of Jupiter and Jupiter just acquiesced. This story is so funny to me 😂
Thanks!
"Interested in early Roman paganism? Don't worry, I've got something for that ED you're suffering."
This channel is so good. I’m so glad to have found you all!! Thank you for quality presentations of new content.
An important religious roman festival was the Lupercalia. The name Lupercalia was believed in antiquity to evince some connection with the Ancient Greek festival of the Arcadian Lykaia, a wolf festival (Greek: λύκος, lýkos; Latin: lupus), and the worship of Lycaean Pan, assumed to be a Greek equivalent to Faunus, as instituted by Evander. Justin describes a cult image of "the Lycaean god, whom the Greeks call Pan and the Romans Lupercus", as nude, save for a goatskin girdle. In Roman mythology, Evander (from Greek Εὔανδρος Euandros, "good man" or "strong man": an etymology used by poets to emphasize the hero's virtue) was a culture hero from Arcadia, Greece, who was said to have brought the Greek pantheon, laws, and alphabet to Italy, where he founded the city of Pallantium on the future site of Palatine Hill, Rome, sixty years before the Trojan War. He instituted the festival of the Lupercalia. Evander was deified after his death and an altar was constructed to him on the Aventine Hill.
Who is also described as being the founder of Rome. Rome in Greek = Power, Force, Sturdiness, Charge.
Keep wishing. Rome was not Greek. However, Rome conquered Greece and made Greeks become fanatical Romans. Greek identity was replaced by Roman identity until 1821.
@@legioromanaxvii7644 Without Greece, Rome would have been nothing more than just another local italian people.They step upon the Greek foundations to build their own achievements. Rome was a city, Greek was already an entire established world, before the Roman dominion. At one point after the Roman conquest, the two became one, a Greco-Roman world. And the Greeks became Romans, as Rome was becoming hellenized. In some sense the Greeks gave their civilization to Rome, and the Greeks continue the Roman Empire, after the Fall of the first Rome.
@@pseudomonas03 Without Rome, there would be no Greek language today (because Romans protected the Greek language, making it language of their society along with Latin). Without Rome, there would be no Greek literature, no Greeks today and no Eastern Orthodoxy. Both Greece and Rome became one, but a lot of Greeks today say negative things about Rome. Without one or the other, neither would exist.
@@legioromanaxvii7644
come on ... Romans didn't protect Greek language neither Greek literature.
Romans were conquered by Greek literature ,art, philosophy ecc.
Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit et artes intulit agresti Latiο.
Oratio Epistolarum, II,1,156
Greece, once conquered, in turn conquered its uncivilized conqueror, and brought the arts to rustic Latium (Horace)
This was a very interesting look into Roman religion. My compliments to all those who made this video a reality.
Not a single mention of Janus? Perhaps the only real roman god who isn''t influenced from greek culture? The god on the first coins? The god after whom a whole month from the calendar was named? For real?!?!
No Janus nor Bellona. I wish to learn more about them.
Happily, I watched the vid. Excellent! A little known subject brought to life and into the light. Outstanding! Production value is of the highest quality. Keep up the great work.
Informative video, but a bit surprising that there's no mention of Janus.
OK. That was one of the funniest transition to a promo I’ve ever seen on UA-cam. 😂
I once read somewhere that the name "Jupiter" was formed from "Zeus Pater". Sort of makes sense. As well, Richard Armour, the satirist, said that it's lucky that Romulus killed Remus because had it been the other way around the name of the city would have been Reme.
It comes from Dyeus Pater (a very primordial indo-european god which literally means "heavenly father") not a some rock this video tries to imply. The word Jupiter though is a cognate with Zeus as well as Thor. All those names come from this oldest indo-european god.
Yes this is true. I am from Greece and i can understand all those synthetic words.
Jupiter
Zeus Pater ( Ζεύς Πατήρ)
Theus Pater (Θεός Πατέρας) means Father God.
Also: Piter - Pater - Fater - Father.
All those words are based Greek%
stop the Indo-European theory, is false
Great topic. I saw an “authoritative statement” recently that insisted that all Roman gods were anthropomorphic, probably by a kid who heard only about the Hellenic-Roman pantheon once. What nonsense, many, many Roman gods were numinous, especially before the Roman adoption of the Hellenic pantheon.
Who else was caught off guard by the ad intro?
10:58 It makes Batiatus' "praying" scene in Spartacus make a lot of sense!
You guys should sell your
Videos to museums. Love your work!
I'm not sure that I buy the whole, "No mythology before the influence of the Greeks" hypothesis.
A video on the war of the Spanish succession would be cool which is a topic I know absolutely nothing about
Apart from the constantly fantastic content, the music gets better and better. Have you ever thought about publishing the sound track"?
if you mean the very last song, it's "The Byzantine Empire" from the Crusader Kings 2 DLC soundtracks
Making original stuff may not of been Rome's expertise but they were masters of improving stuff they adapted from.
great video. I really enjoy the culture and economy videos. also want to commend your Latin pronunciation
finally, i was wondering so much what happend to roman religion when christianity took over
can't wait for that episode :)
@@imperator7828 Maybe "transformed" is a better word but yeah the old gods were well out of favor, which people forget when they blame Christianity (tbf I used to too). Christianity just won the race for a replacement. Mithra and Sol were huge.
@@xiuhcoatl4830 given the fact that the empire fell in 1453 I would not really say that it collapsed
@@leonardoferrari4852 i think he means the collapse of the western empire
@@imperator7828 Sol invictus was only relevant because Aurelian brought it back from the pit of irrelevance
This channel never missed
Wow, I wasn't expecting an ad for hardon pills.
Lmfao same
The other vitamin D.
Why no mention of a very early Roman god of doors:Janus
Was he a God of Chandlers, too?🤭
Great video! Informative and easy to follow.
First here, just hit the like button and go do whatever you wanna do man!
Fantastic video keep it up your doing amazing job
I'm surprised they didn't go more into depth of Rome's founding myth. Leaving out Romulus killed Remus is a big thing, but hopefully in their future videos they'll go further into the story and how it impacted Rome's cultural practices.
I think you simply have to look at the rape of the Sabine women to understand how early ancient Romans thought. Their industrialization of the slave trade is simply an extension of that ancient desire to dominate.
Thank you Kings and Generals Team.
Pallantium was the city was founded by Evander of Pallene and other ancient Greeks sometime previous to the Trojan War.[1] In addition, Dionysius of Halicarnassus writes that Romans say that the city was founded by Greeks from Pallantium of Arcadia, about sixty years before the Trojan war and the leader was Evander.[2]Solinus writes that the Arcadians were the founders of the city.[3]
The myth of the city's origin was significant in ancient Roman mythology because Pallantium became one of the cities that was merged later into ancient Rome, thereby tying Rome's origins to the ancient Greek heroes. Other cities in the area were founded by various Italic tribes.
Virgil states that Evander named the city in honor of his ancestor, Pallas,[4] although Pausanias as well as Dionysius of Halicarnassus[5] say that Evander's birth city was Pallantium, and thus he named the new city after the one in Arcadia. Dionysius of Halicarnassus also mentions that some writers, including Polybius of Megalopolis, say that the town was named after Pallas, who was the son of Heracles and Lavinia, the daughter of Evander, and when he died his grandfather raised a tomb to him on the hill and called the place Pallantium, after him.[6]
The origin of Rome and the composition of its people are worthy of remark. They explain the particular character of its policy, and the exceptional part that fell to it from the beginning in the midst of other cities. The Roman race was strangely mixed. The principal element was Latin, and originally from Alba; but these Albans themselves, according to traditions which no criticism authorizes us to reject, were composed of two associated, but not confounded, populations. One was the aboriginal race, real Latins. The other was of foreign origin, and was said to have come from Troy with Aeneas, the priest-founder; it was, to all appearance, not numerous, but was influential from the worship and the institutions which it had brought with it.
These Albans, a mixture of two races, founded Rome on a spot where another city had already been built - Pallantium, founded by the Greeks. Now, the population of Pallantium remained in the new city, and the rites of the Greek worship were preserved there. There was also, where the Capitol afterwards stood, a city which was said to have been founded by Hercules, the families of which remained distinct from the rest of the Roman population during the entire continuance of the republic.
Thus at Rome all races were associated and mingled; there were Latins, Trojans, and Greeks; there were, a little later, Sabines, and Etruscans. Of the several hills, the Palatine was the Latin city, after having been the city of Evander. The Capitoline, after having been the dwelling-place of the companions of Hercules, became the home of the Sabines of Tatius. The Quirinal received its name from the Sabine Quirites, or from the Sabine god Quirinus. The Coelian hill appears to have been inhabited from the beginning by Etruscans. Rome did not seem to be a single city; it appeared like a confederation of several cities, each one of which was attached by its origin to another confederation. It was the centre where the Latins, Etruscans, Sabellians, and Greeks met.
--Numa Denis Fustel de Coulanges, The Ancient City, 311
ReferencesEdit
^ Aeneid, viii^ Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Roman Antiquities, 1.45.1^ Solinus, Polyhistor, 1.1^ Aeneid 8.54^ Roman Antiquities, i. 31^ Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Roman Antiquities, 1.32.1
External linksEditThe Ancient City (pdf) at the McMaster Archive
Nothing more than outlying Roman folklore from the later Roman Republic. Only Greek ultranationalists seriously believe that Greeks founded the city of Rome.
@@legioromanaxvii7644 sure pall Emperor Antoninus Priscus who ,declair part of Pelloponese, tax free to honor Evander of Pallantium the " Grate Ansestor of the Romans " was Greek ultranationalist also ,as Ms Marion Mc Donald who concluded that Latin, is coming direct from Greek language, she's also as Virgil,Numas and other Roman authors who claimed that ,as " Accidentaly " at all Etruscan ruler of Rome Tarqunius Priscus had a Greek father Demaratus from Corinth ,Pope and the Vatican create a separate history and later qglobal Elit finish the job with the Ridiculous " Indo-European pseudotheory " as about ultra nationalism is a term lost its meaning today completely one with German flag or Julius Ceazar Face in his profile can stick you a stick who is written on if " Be careful " Greek ultra Nationalist,put you I n the same level with some Balcanic trolls but True is LIGHT no matter when is coming up and *Internet is 4he coin with the double options
@@eliaspapanikolaou3563 Dear Elias, your comment is only barely 1 minute old and you have already given yourself a thumbs-up. How sad. You have no idea about history and it is obvious. Latin is not coming directly from Greek and many ancient Romans actually loathed the Greeks. There was even a term in ancient Rome that highlighted the Roman superiority complex over the Greeks. Graeculus Γραικύλος which means, little Greekling. Now if you look at the byzantine sources, many Byzantines were saying that were descended from Italy. So you are in fact, Roman offspring :)
@@eliaspapanikolaou3563 Dear confused friend, in medieval Greek (Rhomeika language), there were 5000 words of Latin origin being used by the Eastern Romans. Today, many Latin loanwords can be found in modern Greek, like krebati, fournos, porta, balbida, freno, maestros, filtro and hundreds more :-)
@@legioromanaxvii7644 dear confused friend Byzantine s say the opposite thatold Roman's deshendent from Greece 🇬🇷 and that's why call the inhabitants of the Italian Peninsula Latins or Italians and never all them Roman's, even in video of Kings and General s before a month Byzantine scholars say it CLEARLY I read my self Many Original" Byzantine " texts in Greek that they say " We are Roman's, in Legacy but we belong to Hellenic nation and to the Greek tribe"
Great video, thank you!
Indeed, romans didn't copy everything from the greeks. They had their own vision and the etruscans were also very influent. Also, like Dumezil wrote, many of these religious views in Europe may come from the proto-indoeuropean faith, that's why there are similarities between pantheons like the hellenic and norse ones. But romans also had original gods that the greeks didn't have, like the two-faced god Janus and Quirinus
Really interesting, thank you for your amazing work.
Lucius Tarquinius Priscus, or Tarquin the Elder, was the legendary fifth king of Rome and first of its Etruscan dynasty. He reigned from 616 to 579 BC.
He was prohibited from obtaining political office in Etruria because of the ethnicity of his father Demaratus, so Lucius Tarquinius Priscus became king of Rome.
Demaratus,from Doric royal house of Bachiade, came from the Greek city of Corinth with his entourage,architects,poets,potters ecc,and brought art and religion and myths in Tarquinia.
Demaratus became through his sons the ancestor of the
Roman race of Tarquinia and the ancestor of many noble Roman families.
His descendants were three kings of Rome and the first two advisers
when the Roman Republic was proclaimed.
As always, magnific content
Numa Pompilius doesn't get enough coverage in modern media.
this is awesome
Etruscans had a very different pantheon before they met us when we colonised the southern part of Italy.
They had Gods and Goddesses like:
Aita - God of the Underworld
Alpan - spirit of Harmony
Athrpa - Goddess of Fate
Catha - the daughter of the Sun
Cel - Earth Goddess
Culsu - double-faced God of Gates
Laran - God of War
Nortia - Goddess of Fate, protector of plagues and disasters.
Silvanus - God of the forests
Tages - revealed to the humans the secrets of religious rites.
Tharn - Goddess protector of the children
Tivr - Goddess of the Moon
Turan - Goddess of love
Turnu - son of the Goddess of love
Uni - Goddess of Fire
Vanth - female demon associated with Death.
Veltha - Goddess of vegetation/agriculture
Usil - The Sun God
… etc
When Romans conquered Hellas, Hellas conquered them with its civilisation!
They adopted our Pantheon and changed the names:
Zeus became Jupiter
Hera became Juno
Athena became Minerva
Aphrodite became Venus
Ares became Mars
Poseidon became Neptune
Demeter became Ceres
Hestia became Vesta
Hermes became Mercury
Hephaestus became Vulcan
Other deities like:
Eros became Cupid
Nike became Victoria
Persephone became Proserpine
The oldest Etruscan God of Sun was replaced with the beliefs of the Titans.
Usil, the Sun God was replaced with Sol Invictus, the invincible Sun.
The Titan Helios from the Hellenic mythology.
Everything you said was false. Romans already worshipped Jupiter before they conquered Greece. They already worshipped ALL their gods before they conquered Greece. Their gods are native to them. They didn't copy form the Greeks. They equated the Greek gods with their own gods because they saw the similarities.
@@minutemansam1214 again, go again to school and study History again!
Hellenes colonised Italy before Italy was a thing!
We colonised the southern part of Italy BEFORE the creation of the Roman Empire and BEFORE they conquer us!!!
Can you understand this???
Etruscans had the Gods I wrote you above!
They had a different style in their statues!
Etruscans got influenced by us at some point and then when the Romans conquered Hellas they fully adopted our religion!
@@minutemansam1214 you are miseducated!
Etruscans are the ancestors of the Italians!
Etruscans had very different Gods from us!
They had Gods and Goddesses like:
Aita - God of the Underworld
Alpan - spirit of Harmony
Athrpa - Goddess of Fate
Catha - the daughter of the Sun
Cel - Earth Goddess
Culsu - double-faced God of Gates
Laran - God of War
Nortia - Goddess of Fate, protector of plagues and disasters.
Silvanus - God of the forests
Tages - revealed to the humans the secrets of religious rites.
Tharn - Goddess protector of the children
Tivr - Goddess of the Moon
Turan - Goddess of love
Turnu - son of the Goddess of love
Uni - Goddess of Fire
Vanth - female demon associated with Death.
Veltha - Goddess of vegetation/agriculture
Usil - The Sun God
… etc
When we colonised the southern part of Italy they influenced by us and adopted our pantheon!
They adopted “some” of our stories😂😂😂
What stories are original Italian/Roman/Etruscan?
Do you not any?
Romans studied OUR mythology, Stories, poems, Historiography… and translated them to Latin. They each Roman poet created a version of our stories!
Ovid’s writings confuse today’s people because he wrote his version of our Theogony (the genesis of our Gods)
Virgil studied the Iliad and inspired to write the Aeneid and he claimed the Aeneas from Troy founded Rome to give more mythical origin to Rome!!!
Rome is 99% Hellas🇬🇷
@Fgff maybe this is why they say that the Northern Italians are more stiff and grim and the Southern Italians are more warm-hearted and inviting people… 🤷🏻♂️🇬🇷
@@Kolious_Thrace I think you are the one who should study more. The gods that the romans adopted from greece either kept their names or slightly adapted to latin phonology, like Apollo or Aesculapius. There are many other gods that didn't have a greek origin, including Jupiter, Mars, Iuno and Diana, just to name a few. These gods were interpreted by the greeks as Zeus, Ares, Hera and Artemis because they covered similar roles in their pantheon. Not perfectly equivalent though. Zeus was much more focused on its role of father, Jupiter on it's role of lawmaker. Ares was more focused on violent human nature, often for the sake of violence, while Mars on the violent nature of youth redirected in service of the community. And so on.
Thanks for the video as always
Funny thing I found once when researching the origin of my given name is that Mars’s might have come from an Etruscan or Oscan god named Maris, depicted as a child and with an unknown sphere of power.
Rule of thumb is: The Roman and Greek gods and goddesses were COUNTERPARTS, NOT EQUIVALENT of each other.
Indeed. Syncreticism broke the orginal cultural continuity yet the ancients loved to practice it wherever they went. It's really amazing how fluid religion and spirituality was back then vs how calcified it's become now.
They are the same Gods, it's extremely funny how you people who do not even worship the Gods make statements about our religion,
The ancient philosophers, scholars and teachers acknowledged this fact that we worship the same Gods but now charlatans are claiming that "Muh, they were different Gods, Muh because Different names, cultures, traditions etc."
@@wizardwiz9218 Where does Eros come from?
Amazing video bro
I'm not sure there is such a thing as Roman religion "before the Greeks." Roman religion developed concurrently and intertwined with what we're calling "Greek polytheism" here. Rome didn't have to conquer Greece to adopt religious practices. They were closely linked to Greek cities from the kingdom era and early Republic. For instance, the first Roman road was a direct link to Cumae and Naples. The last king of Rome exiled himself to Cumae and was the grandson of a Corinthian.
The Etruscans, Romans, and Italian Greeks, and others, all drew upon a shared heritage back to Homer. You can see this in their art and pottery from early periods, and such. Etruscan, Greek, and Latin cities always claimed a Homeric legendary founder of their cities. These peoples were never isolated entities.
That is true but Hellenism's influence before the late republic was not as massive as it was during the late republic and imperial period. Pre late republic Romans were very careful with cultural imports from the Greeks and Etruscans.
At 07:57 The Roman did not have myths? What about the myths of Janus?
Ive always wondered if Rome itself was a mix of Greeks and Etruscans before the mythic kings or a dominance of one over the other which overtime separated from their cousins.
Nah, just an Italic settlement with an increasingly Etruscan-like ruling class.
@@jasonmuniz-contreras6630 Was it? I realize you could never figure this out through DNA because they were too good at incorporating foreign populations, but would the DNA show the original latins to be some Celto-Hellenic-Etruscan mix or a unique Isletic genetics?
I think yes. Greeks colonized Italy, the colonies gained independence and then dominated Greece. Everything old is new again.
@@silencemeviolateme6076 greeks colonized SOME parts of southern italy, surely not Latium (where the latins are from). trying to cancel preroman italic civilisations is not cool.
@@lenase7396 Ok, then where did the Latins come from?
I think we make a mistake trying to view these places as ethnicly bound nation-states. They weren't they were amalgamations of different tribes. So it may be more accurate to describe the Latins as a league of unrelated tribes living in the region who joined under one banner. Think more like the Iroquois League.
At last, a good video explaining the originality of ancient Roman religion. There is a widespread misconception insinuating that Roman religion was just a watered down version of Greek religion. It is about time that we dispel this misinformation once and for all.
They were a branch of the Indo-European religion. But exactly what slant unique to the Romans is very interesting. We know the Latin and Celtic languages split and could look at the Celtic religions for possible insight.
Yes also Germanic religions to a certain degree.
Awesome, thank you! So much I didn’t know
Wow, the original Numen reminds me of the concept of Mana, somehow.
It reminds me more of kami, personally...
🔥🔥🔥💯 I really injoy these
The Romans held in high regard two brothers who were plumbers. Known for their ability to jump high and with great precision. Avid coin collectors. They also had a fondness for mushrooms. When the circumstances demanded they could fly, shoot fireballs, run at extreme speeds, and even temporarily ignore all manner of personal injury. Truly the Super Mario Brothers are the finest sons of Italy the world has ever known.
lmao
Amazing work
I never know whether Jupiter Optimus Maximus (Jupiter, the best and greatest) started off from a point of pure confidence - or wishful thinking.
Finally we got something see here. Post more videos relating to the culture ,origins, religion rather than war.
The channel is called Kings and Generals, no Priest and Farmers always have been focused in war and conflicts with a special place for culture and religious things but mainly focused in war, don't expect other
@@josesoria2072 They have often done videos on economics and religion and daily life of people, so, no, Kings and Generals do cover Priests and Farmers.
@@soumajitsen1395 i know that, but the main purpose of the channel is war and conflicts, not culture and religion
You should do the story of Frumentius and the Christian conversion of Ethiopia
Are you guys going to do a video on just the sacrificial practices of the Roman's? Some them, especially the mythraic ones, are downright crazy to read about.
Mostly old religous killed by Christianity & Islam, Only Hinduism survived.
This is brilliant !
Early Roman history is maddeningly fascinating. Unlike the Indus or the Minoans (that we know of) this place came to shape history like almost no other, but it was born in mists and shadows. I'd give my left nut to know exactly what happened during their first couple centuries.
Archaeologists have painted that picture for us, so we don't have to speculate that much. We have tracked them from their humble beginnings. Minoans are a much older and more advanced civilization than the Myceneans-Greeks, Classical Greeks and Romans. They found in Akrotiri in Santorini a perfectly preserved sample of their city and it was packed with 2-3 floor villas that had bathrooms on the upper floors with plumbing. Their walls had wooden wedges inside them that provided amazing earhquake protection. Much more exciting and fascinating how these people where more ancient yet more advanced in many ways from everything that followed. Platos lost Atlantis was probably describing Santorini's ancient harbour as well that fitted the description of circles of land and water mass and the cataclysmic event that submerged it and practically ended the Minoans.
This was awesome very informative
So it was basically an indo-european religion too?
I learn a lot with this channel
If Roman and Greek religion came before Christianity, wouldn’t that invalidate Christianity? I mean, what makes the Christian God more legit than the multiple Greek and Roman gods since Greek and Roman gods came first?
Christianity was based from when Jesus Christ came, if you think that since it came after it’s deemed false then, that is on you.
Psst, There is no God. Only the higher phenomenon that doesn't give a f*ck on everything
The people decide that not the deities. The people and the state by and large chose Christianity willing over the religions of there forefathers and so it remains today.
People chose one stupid God in place of many stupid gods
@@xiuhcoatl4830 OK maybe I overstated things but a large part of the empire was already christian by the time happened which is what I meant.
After the ad for Roman, will an upcoming episode feature an ad for Trojans?
You should honor Priapus, the Roman god of oversized permanent erection, instead of using those pills.
You know, this channel is cool and all, but I think it would greatly improve if they would publish their sources
Can you make a series on the Hindu contribution to science and mathematics and empires as you did with Islam?
❤️ 🇮🇳
@Sanjeev Das He made on the Islamic golden age?
India has a super interesting history so I'd love to see something in this vein for sure.
Islamic golden age is influenced by Ancient Greek, Ancient Persian, Ancient Indian, Ancient Egyptian and even Ancient Chinese thoughts.
Baman
The thing with a lot of historians is, unless they've actually taken metaphysics and theological classes, you take their viewpoint on religion with a grain of salt. Much of polytheistic religion is the collection of high ideals to aim for---embodied in the form of man. And then to call this or that one a god means they are of the highest values to aim for. The modes of ritual, while it may sound odd to us in this point in time at first sight, is not actually that odd. Rather the rituals are means of imitation and getting into the zone of what it means to be this or that type of god.
Is this god characterized by strength? Brutality? Wealth? So on and so forth? So too the worshippers put themselves into ritual to imitate this god. To add, the means of worship including putting in the food below their altar is a sign of sacrifice to accomplish these characteristic or traits.
The same applies for monotheism. By the claims of Monotheists that these gods are all false ones means one thing simple: These gods are not the highest ideal that, part of it, encompasses the mode of action of man in truth. There is One that's so far above and will always be true regardless when man goes extinct or not. This is essentially the claim of hardcore monotheists. As to what is this Highest one, it's impossible to give it a name, so to give it a name would limit it, so we call this a deferential name that's not it's real name, but a way to point to this Infinite Truth.
Note, religion is not a joke, nor optional. It's the motivating force of man and of this reality.