Evangelical Holdouts in the Presbyterian Church (USA)
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- Опубліковано 19 лип 2024
- The Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA) is not known for its Evangelicals. Instead, it's a mostly theologically Liberal denomination like other mainline bodies. But there are still Evangelicals holding their place. One example is the Fellowship Community.
When I lived in Florida I went to a Korean church that was part of PCUSA. They were definitely on the theologically conservative side (i.e. did not approve of homosexuality, believed in 6 day creation, believed in a literal heaven and hell, etc.). I asked the pastor about why they were still in PCUSA and he said that they wanted keep a gospel light in the denomination and hoped to push the denomination back toward the Bible. He also said most of the Korean churches in the denomination were on the conservative side.
As an evangelical in the PCUSA I am so glad to hear about this. My Church is kind of on the fence between Biblical and Liberal and I am working to push it in the right direction. Do you mind telling me what church you belong to?
IMO a church that accepts women's ordination cannot rightly be considered theologically conservative no matter what their views are on everything else.
Women's ordination opened the door for transgender pastors. Really, ordaining women was the first ever socially accepted form of crossdressing so churches embracing transgender ideology now shouldn't be a surprise.
I lived in Florida about a year and I have to say that I've been a Christian all my life and I've got a pretty godly existence buthis existence but they were like damming me the hell overcomeplete nonsense they're ultra conservative down there to where it just comes across harsh and judgmental and I think that turns people away they're like colts down there it's scary. I'm from New Jersey not nobody Acts like that
@@RepublicofE This is a radically right wing take, so don’t present it as mainstream.
@@fighterofthenightman1057that is a radically apostolic and Pauline view, and between following a modern worldview that was highly promoted by western billionaire media and following an apostle of God that He chooses to be his voice, I think it's not hard to decide. Note that this doesn't mean subjugation and oppression of women in any way, women can and should preach the gospel, teach and be active members of the church community, it's just the role of authoritative priesthood that is reserved for men.
This is a such a niche topic that only a few care to research and look into. Thank you for doing such.
A church I was heavily involved with when I lived in Southern California was a church which is still part of the PCUSA. Everyone, all elders, pastors, deacons, and a vast majority of the congregants have wanted to leave since 2008. But the catch is that the property - which is historical, beautiful, and five minutes from one of continental America’s best beaches - costs $15 million or so. So the tiny little 300 person congregation would have to cough up a whopping 15 million to split cleanly with PCUSA, despite the fact that we are a very theologically conservative church and are deeply ashamed to still be associated with PCUSA. Tough situation. No one knows about it and it could really use our prayers. Thanks again.
It’s sad to hear about these churches are held captive by the building ownership. I pray they’re still affective parts of the body where they are.
That’s both heartening and upsetting. Will definitely pray for them. Hopefully they will be used to be a positive voice in the PCUSA, one small faithful whisper. Sometimes that’s all you neef
This was what I was thinking as well. Our PCUSA church in Charlotte back in the 80's purchased a large parcel with an existing large building, houses, gardens. I think it was 17 acres. In 1989 the deadline hit all PCUSA churches to relinquish their property to Presbytery. Now, Presbytery hadn't paid a dime for the property and theologically we had clearly split, but we also sent more money to the than any other church in that Presbytery and they wanted us badly to stay. The vote was 90% to leave I believe. It was a good choice. I really feel for these churches and reminds me of Bonhoeffer's quote "If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction.” Today, the denomination isn't letting anyone out of the property deal.
Don't bullshit us. I know the evil PCUSA holds captive the buildings in order to hold congregations ransom, but YOU LET them hold you ransom!!! A portion of your tithes and offerings goes to support the PCUSA agenda, and you don't want to leave because it's close to the beach.. pathetic. The answer is easy; LEAVE!! Leave the building, leave the denomination, join a conservative church or have your gatherings somewhere else. But you don't want to because the materials of this world are more important to you. I knew a pastor who refused to leave the PCUSA (though he claimed to be against it) because his retirement plan was wrapped up in it.. so his money was more important than God's glory. You don't have to pay millions of dollars to leave the church, that's only if you want to keep the building.. so leave the building!! It's that simple!! If EVERY conservative church in the PCUSA did this, the PCUSA would not be the powerhouse that it is, but alas, the so called "evangelicals" in the PCUSA prefer to keep funding Ba'al because money is more important to them than God's truth. We've come along way from Christians dying for the truth of God to now being unable to move away from the beach. I never knew you.
@@jakesanders136 I'm glad someone said it. I mean love to everyone but that is a just assessment of the situation. If they're just staying for the building, the church is already gone. Are we so easily bought?
growing up in a liberal presbyterian church, i was confused as to how there were so many members with socially conservative views in a generally lgbt accepting church. For example we had a youth pastor remove a volunteer youth leader on the basis of his sexual orientation. I want to say we can all get along under one church, but church and politics seem to be impossible to untangle in america...
I was an elder (board of directors) in my PCUSA church for 4 years. I was far from the only theologically conservative member. One of the nice parts of the PCUSA is that theologically conservative and theologically liberal believers can happily coexist within the same congregation!
Wrong I am a true Christian and not a woke Democrat. I will not co- exist with those who bastardize Gods word. True Christians will flee from the evil of PCUSA, leaving them to fade into bankruptcy, they are a dying church, Praise God.
Genuine question? How? Like if the church is moving a certain direction that you disagree with how can both of you be happy together? This is an honest question? I am genuinely interested.
I was curious about this so I visited a PCUSA Church earlier today n a very rural area and I want to say on first impressions this is correct. They where obviously Conservative to Moderate in their views but it was a very pleasant experience.. I have never had anyone at a Church offer to take me to lunch right off the bat before. I definitely think n that Parish the Lord is at work. Finding people like that anywhere these days is very hard, needless to say I am definitely considering returning.
That’s great to hear. I’m a cradle Presbyterian with serious reservations about the direction of the PCUSA. But I’m hoping to be a small town minister for all of my life, and I’m really glad that there’s hope for more theologically sound people.
Great video, I’d love to see more like this! It’s always fascinating to hear about evangelical holdouts in mainline denominations. As I understand it, the Presbyterian Church in Canada has a similar group called the Renewal Fellowship.
Thank you so much for this. I belong to a conservative church which is part of the Presbyterian Church (USA). Churches such as ours still exist within the denomination. I appreciate that you understand that not all churches within our denomination are liberal.
How do I find conservative PCUSA churches?
@@a.kamileon I'm guessing you could search church websites for references to The Fellowship group.
As an evangelical in the PCUSA I am so glad to hear about this. My Church is kind of on the fence between Biblical and Liberal and I am working to push it in the right direction. Do you mind telling me what church you belong to?
I had no idea these existed. I wrote off PC(USA) a long time ago and joined an ARP church. Though even we had a significant chunk of theological liberals for a time.
@@crafterman2345 How do you mix liberals and conservatives under one roof. In the church there are issues that are open handed and some closed handed. People will tell you what certain passages mean to them, but the real question is this, what does GOD mean for us to get out of it. There are certain things The Holy Bible is very clear on and need no discussions
Dear God, when will your Church realise that we are one body, there will do zero denominations in heaven
Amen.
When will people stop throwing biblical standards out? When will people stop inventing man made stuff like calvinism? When will churches stop pandering to political correctness?
That’s why you ought to follow The Catholic (means universal) Church. The Church Christ founded.
@@Yourmom-ej6kf hi Brandon. If U look at what en ekklesia is you will find that church's including the Roman Catholic church are not an ekklesia. The bride of Christ has distinct characteristics that are simply not displayed in human denominations, corporations or religious institutions.
@@markferguson1338 a called out assembly commonly translated as church. I agree that the building is not The Church . I agree that it’s not four walls that create The Church. There’s also parishes that don’t even take place indoors. But there is a priesthood that hold authority different than the laity . Also just fyi Roman Catholicism isn’t the only form of Catholicism,Rome is just given primacy
As a clergy member of the Fellowship Community, I think you did a great job with your video. Thank you
I am really enjoying your channel. I've had many interactions with Independent Fundamentalist Baptists in the past. Including Jack Hyles!
Love this channel!!! U always give me the 411 on the denominations thank u
my experience in PCUSA is that most congregations are actually conservative. especially rural churches. most people dont really care about what the denomination says as long as their local parish is good.
Almost every PCUSA church I have seen was a rainbow flag flying women ordaining abbomination.
That's a sad statement in itself. truth is meaningless to your church or you wouldn't support its opponent.
One who does not care what the denomination believes has a bigger problem. They might think it is the local country club or some other social function.
@@innovationhq8230 The one near me doesn't fly it, at least not outside.
As a former PCUSA Pastor, I must say "And tHAT is a big part of the problem."
Hello Joshua, I was wondering if you could do a break down of the General Association of Davidian Seventh Day Adventists , their beliefs, and history. There is a lot of confusion of who they are and what they are all about. Mostly they are just confused with the branch Davidians under Koresh. So it would be nice to see someone show the differences between the two groups doctrinally and also their distinct histories.
I really like your videos, keep up the good work.
Truely, I don't say this to be flippant or dismissive, but this video is why I'm so happy to be on the Barque of St. Peter in Christ's Church, as troubled as it can be. When every man holds scripture in his own authority, each then becomes the sole authority for truth and you see heartbreaking congregational fissures that appear more like political parties and coalitions than churches. It brings to mind Judges 21:25. Pray for unity brothers and sisters.
Let us also pray that sanity return to weird movements like the Synodal Path, within the Church of Rome.
Have roots in PCUSA and Lutheranism. In both I’ve seen American socio/political impulses seem to drive church splits. I like this UA-cam channel (an appreciate the amazing effort reflected!). But fear it may feed divisive impulses…the unending drive to refine doctrinal statements. That can be good….as long as we major in the majors.
thank you so much for the videos! would you be willing to make a video about sedevacantist catholics?
I had been a PCUSA member my whole life but left to join a PCA congregation in 2014. The decision to affirm same sex marriages was what did it for me, but I had been troubled by the direction the denomination was moving for some time. Until recently I never identified as “evangelical” and I still only accept the description with reservations.
What these good people are trying to do is laudable in trying to save their historic denomination. However, what I fear is that the denomination isn't interested in being saved.
Just examine the commentary from Louisville about Matthew 25 or other social justice issues and I think you may begin to look into the jaws of the beast.
Wow. I attend a relatively liberal PCUSA church and had no idea that there was still a subsect of Evangelical Holdouts within the church. So nice to learn about about the diversity within the denomination.
I think it's true of some United Methodist churches. They don't want to give up the name and believe John Wesley is spinning rapidly in his grave.
I left our Presbyterian church when the new associate pastor started his liberal rants about systemic racism and all the rest of the Marxist woke buzz words! Just give me the gospel and scripture, don’t need to be indoctrinated!
@@gregoryanderson6550 He appears to be politicizing his beliefs!
I would like you to do a video on when denominationalism began.
A niche topic only a few writers have investigated as Steve Cedeno said below.
In Scotland reformed Christians often have to travel out of their home base in order to find a non-liberal church.
As Arthur W Pink said: Better to stay at home than worship in an unbiblical church.
Splendid video! Can you do a "remaining orthodox churches in the TECUSA" video too?
Are you a conservative Episcopalian?
I was not expecting my old pastor to come up in this video! Paul Detterman is the pastor of a church I used to go to
Excellent explanation!!
Thank you, Brother 🌹🌹🌹
I am not a presbyterian but if I was I'd probably be a member of eco good however I'd like to see a Unity among all Christians to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. God bless you.
Excellent explanation
I would think that Bruce Gore is among that group. Excellent series on Revelation and eschatology.
I’m so proud to be a part of the PCUSA. My husband and I were married in our Texas church back in 2019.
That's great, it's too bad that you don't have any theological basis for that union. And you're simply eisegeting your way into personal morality instead of the objective morality espoused in scripture. But I guess the bible takes a back seat when all you want is pleasure.
Nah nothing to be proud of on either count
Happy for you brother - may God bless your family and congregation. I am sorry for all the noise from our own brothers and sisters who still harbor fear in the places where love is longing to move in. ❤️God bless.
@@4emrys It's too bad that you're a bigoted fanatic.
@readytoharvest can you do Most Asked Questions for PCUSA or PCUSA in 4 min?
When people tell me that the PCUSA is very liberal, I scratch my head and say, "Really?" We literally have only one affirming LGBTQIA+ congregation in my entire state and they are by far the smallest congregation in the state. Most are hardcore traditionalists and the most liberal thing you will see is interracial marriages and women serving as deacons and elders. I imagine in more larger cities you do see something more like the Episcopal Church where I have yet to see a congregation in my state that isn't liberal to the core.
My best guess for this is because Karl Barth, a Neo-Ortohodox theologian, had a huge influence on the Confession of 1967 which ended up being more moderate than what most people expected.
Granted, churches like the PCA do come off as conservative Evangelical without even trying too hard so the PCUSA doesn't have the evangelical vibe despite the publishing house, Westminster John Knox Press, printing evangelical authors.
So what women should be deacons and elders too. Good grief sounds like you haven't been a biblical demomination for quite some time then.
Very interesting.
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. 2 Corinthians 6:14-18
Do you have any videos about the Orthodox Presbyterian Church?
I grew up in a theologically conservative PCUSA church- it’s where I first heard the gospel and I’m thankful for that. But ultimately that church left for the EPC- and we (for job reasons) moved away where we then joined PCA, and I’m so glad we did.
A video on how churches split the 2 genders during service would be good. My independent baptist church feels like guys only talk to guys and girls talk to girls. I'm seldom approached by older woman being kind, younger woman don't engage conversation. I recently learned that orthodox churches split the genders and girls sit on one side and guys on the other. It'd be a cool video
As a member of the Presbyterian Church, I am wanting to know just what it would take to break away from the church? I have heard that other churches have done this and that the presbytery charges them a lot of money to get out. The whole purpose of getting out is because of the rigid rules, and guidelines that must be followed. We want to stay biblical, of course, but following some of the rules for being ordained to do communion and such, can become quite an issue in finding someone in these days. Where can I go to find more information about this? Our small church is forced to take classes to learn how to serve communion, unless we trust the Presbytery find someone for us to come and pay them to do it. There are many other issues that they force on us and to me, I see no pros to staying in the Presbytery. any information would be much appreciated.
“Sell what you have and give to the poor.
Take up the cross and follow me.”
Love ❤️
Jesus said to love ❤️.
I actually Got Saved by a Faithful Witness of a Lutheran Camp Counselor in Colorado Lutheran Camp being part of a Presbyterian groups invited in late summer 1974. As I grew in the BIBLE, I found most people in our Church were more nominal Christians at best, But there were Blessed Exceptions. God led me to a Baptist ( BBC ) church in 1976
Family was Methodist till 1970, switched to Presbyterian USA, Got Saved at Lutheran Camp 1974 , Became a Baptist in 1976
Be aware that when you tithe to a PCUSA church, part of that $ goes to PCUSA national and towards their pet projects and agenda. Correct?
Yes, each church pays "per capita" support to the presbytery/denomination: oga.pcusa.org/section/ecclesial-and-ecumenical-ministries/per-capita/frequently-asked-questions/
@@ReadyToHarvest Which is why I think it would be very difficult to stay.
I left long ago.
I was a pcusa hold out until 2012. I honestly just got tired of fighting the national group... I didn't find the renewal group useful... they were all talk and no action. My former youth pastor took his denomination to ECO.
I now attend the church my husband grew up in, an SBC. It's going faster to progressivism than PCUSA went.
I don't think we'll be sbc much longer. It's sad this is happening to all of these churches
Jehovah's witness are one of the few religious where woman pastors and the accepting of homosexual acts as ok will never be accepted
@@gt-cx1ce never gonna happen. Jw's have massive theological issues and depend on extrabiblical revelation
Is there much of a difference between Evangelical Presbyterians and reformed Baptist?
Baptism would be one - Presbyterians baptise infants, while baptists do not. Another would be church government - Presbyterian churches are ruled by elders and answerable to the Presbytery (regional association of churches). Churches that would describe themselves as Reformed Baptist are more likely to be independent from a denomination and to give congregational votes the final say in decisions that a Presbyterian church would entrust to its elders. That's my impression, anyway!
Evangelical Presbyterians believe that infants should be baptized and that Jesus is spiritually present in communion, that is to say that Jesus is present in heaven, but believers commune with his body and blood through the Holy Spirit.
Reformed Baptists only baptize believers and believe that Jesus is not present in communion, and that it is solely a symbol of the sacrifice on the cross.
Fun stuff.
This may be why many Americans are drifting away from church. I'm a theological liberal, but a political conservative. I also know people who are theologically conservative, but politically liberal. So, if a church is both theologically liberal and progressive or theologically and socially conservative, it turns off some people.
I think I might be, I don't know anymore what I am. I feel kinda hopelessly lost a sea. So many differing beliefs! There should be a search engine on these denominations and the splits!
The Presbyterian Church (USA) in my hometown is a social tradition - not so much a body of loving Christian believers. With a church on nearly every corner, it's like having way too many football teams... 🤷♂️
IS Redeemer church part of that fellowship?
Redeemer in New York City is in PCA
redeemed zoomer rejoices
... I have to wonder how many / how big are sub-groups, like 'Fellowship Community', across the USA............ I have my doubt, but do have an open mind.
I thought in the video it said a hundred something churches, but the denomination is thousands. I could be misremembering though.
I came to Christ in the PCA! PTL!
Endless splits.
there is an appointed end
Protestantism...
will christians ever be happy with their text lol
Outside of 1 or 2 issues, ECO is not too far away from PCUSA.
Can you explain?
I’m very happy that biblical Christianity exists in these unbiblical denominations. I’m not sure I understand why they stayed though.
One simple reason: church property. If they leave the church the main denomination would have to agree to sell the church building to the congregation and the congregations often don't have the money and that's assuming the main denomination even wants to sell. That's why you have huge, old, beautiful Episcopal churches with 30 people showing up to services and one angry lesbian "pastor" while up the road you'll have a conservative Anglican congregation of hundreds in a converted warehouse that was just built two years ago.
@@rumrunner8019 thank you. I forgot about that.
@@rumrunner8019 good point. Money > faith.
I am currently on Session in a very progressive church of about 1700 members. I feel isolated as one of the only evangelical current elders. As I wrestle with the issue of stay or leave, I concurrently wrestle with stay to attempt to be the solitary voice of "reason" vs be a part of the passive resistance. Our church dates back to the beginning of the 19th century and we are struggling, as are we all, with the future of the church and the Church. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Stay and be a solitary voice, or stop the sleepless nights and seek solace in homogeneity elsewhere.
Videos on this phenomenon in the other Mainlines would be interesting. I think ELCA and TEC are probably more openly hostile to theological conservatives than PCUSA, probably because of the difference in polity.
The ELCA has more of a theological conservative presence than the PC(USA).
The United Church of Christ has entered the chat...try being an evangelical there. You will definitely be swimming against the tide.
My wife and I moved from California to a medium-sized North Carolina town and found a PC-USA church we liked. The children's programs were good, we made a few good friends, good music, decent preaching, though we found some sermon points and positions a bit suspect to our middle-of-the-road (non-)leanings. We started attending an adult Sunday morning class and after three or four Sundays where we saw little reverence for Scripture, saw various members dismiss a "personal relationship" with God and Jesus' sacrifice, and one discussion that ended with a seminary-trained member saying, "Yay, I made another heretic today!" ... we left to a different, ECO Presbyterian church.
The older I get, the more I understand the value of the conservative interpretation of the scriptures. Mind you, I understand it without always agreeing. Much like how churches shouldn't be forced to teach evolution from the pulpit, there should be no church influence on laws for the country in the 21st century. Marriage should be between two, consenting adults, regardless of gender in order to uphold the legal rights of spouses. Not allowing equal marriage based on one's own interpretation of scripture is blurring the lines between church and state as well as withholding equal rights to citizens who either aren't Christian or don't adhere to the same interpretation of scripture. I'm not sorry to say that church governance shouldn't be actual governance. And that should definitely be a line no church should want to cross
What about predestination?
Yes that's a Calvinist doctrine taught by Presbyterians.
I love PCUSA because it is so accepting
I don’t believe they are as accepting as you might think and hope they are. The members of the Fellowship churches are always in danger of church discipline when they transgress the PC(USA) constitutional standards. That’s not acceptance in my book.
@@todgilmore3258 well the particular one I go to I like I can't speak for all of them though. However, if a church is going to be part of our denomination it has to abide by our rules and those rules include accepting our lgbtq friends as children of God among other things. If a church doesn't want to come under that then they can leave. Again though, I'm only speaking for my particular church that I go to.
I am just finding this due to becoming frustrated with an elder in my PCUSA church continuously insulting political conservatives on his Facebook page. If you want to insult or critique an elected person, go for it. But he insults conservative voters/thinkers. That includes me and my children, and I have a big problem with it. It is very concerning that he chooses politics above people. Long story short, I left the PCA church in my town because I divorced my abuser several years ago. The pastor of the church at the time gave his "consent" (as if I needed it) but proceeded to treat my boys and me with contempt and shunned us. I would have preferred to go to an EPC church as this is the denomination I grew up in, but there is not one here. We eventually joined the PCUSA church in town because the pastor was so loving and accepting of us, and that is what we needed. This is a mixed church with many conservatives left, so we have been happy for the most part. But now this guy is ruining it ha. He is basically hateful toward people like me on his social media posts but nice to me in person. I am just searching for somewhere to fit in, I guess. It is frustrating!
We used to belong to a PCC (Canada) sort of equivalent to the PCUSA church but in Canada. I hear from friends who are still in PCC churches that likely the PCC will split over the LGBTQ+ issue. Also wonder what the CRC will do next yr at Synod. I think that many churches will demand full acceptance of LGBTQ+ and that will result in another split. I support female office bearers in the CRC where we still have our membership but 450 miles or so away as we moved. We moved almost 2 yrs ago but the closest CRC probably has a minister that will probably end up in the PCC or the United Church of Canada who allow atheists as ministers or seem to last time I heard. I am not an evangelical but rather an orthodox Protestant.
Left in 2011. Basically, PCUSA is a social club. Now, I attend a bible preaching, teaching, believing church is where I go now. And those churches are getting harder and harder to find.
I went to a very large PCUSA church when I lived in another state. I was very happy with their conservative theology, even though I personally believe in believer's baptism. I can well believe that many within the PCUSA stay to be a faithful remnant.
Playback speed - x2
1.5 for my brain's cpu
Unbelievable how "churches" are run like business and not as part of the Body of Christ. Maybe because they're not part of it. These people are like those pharisees to whom Jesus said: ""... you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in." (Matt.23:13)
We have to keep in mind that all churches, whatever their putative origins, are currently human organisations, and have everything that's present in all other human organisations: differences of opinion, factions, politicking, desire for power and influence and money, and all the rest. The only perfect church would be one with no people in it!
Holdout: Here I stand; I can do no other.
So, they are about 2%.
2% of the *churches* . However, i suspect their congregations are much larger.
@redeemed zoomer
I am with the holdouts, underdogs, and others who can only read General Assembly news with noses held.
Informative but you rattle off too fast. Hard to follow you.
A lot of the problems exits when man usurps what God says. Started in Genesis 3.
Look up redeemed zoomer
It's a pity that the main issue seems to be homosexuality when the real issue is reformed orthodoxy. I take my hat off to these congregations. At the end of the day the locus of ministry is the local church. As a Presbyterian in my neck of the woods I have withdrawn largely from denominational issues and focus on local ministry.
Wow now this video is all sort of informative I madame I'm a presbyterian and we belong to the PC USA however however learning more about what the PC USA stands for it honestly goes completely against my conservative parents believe in what I was talking about my pastor is very liberal. I really like him and hes preaching a great message. I mean that in the sense where he really pretty much sticks to The Bible and and the text of God he doesn't really get into all this other stuff. So these topics didn't really come up how I'm up however I know that know that my parents were not 4 for gay marriage and we're not cool with pastor's pastor's marrying them. I'm also well aware that the presbyterian seems kind of monetarily It's greedy and it seems that no matter what you do it's never enough they want more it's not more for like a 101 committee's it's really ridiculous
Sadly, I left a PCUSA church where I had many friends because of the liberal bent, weak adherence to scripture, and the Matthew 25 social gospel they push. I found a nice reformed church 1/2 hour away from my house.
Why don't you read a couple of verses out of the bible in all your videos.
PLEASE
?
So much to cover that the poor fellow doesn't have time. Anyway, this is not a theological channel as such.
Women ministering as pastors is a Black and White issue in Scripture. The apostle Paul could not have stated it more clearly. Sola Scriptura!. I grew up in a PCUSA Church that was not Evangelical. I am now part of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church [EPC] but not because I did not want to stay and fight, but only because I thought it was a losing battle. I truly hope I was wrong. I wish ECO God's richest blessings.
The ECO and the EPC allow for women pastors.
@@pauln5785The EPC has no women pastors.
If they do that can only mean it will in time lose to the Dark side.
SOLA SCRIPTURA
If you do not believe in the Bible why bother? You are worshiping yourself not Jehovah.
Once you ordain women, you are lost.
Very Christian Taliban Statement! 👎
If they wanna keep faithful to the scriptures why do they abandon scripture when it comes to women's ordination? Sorry but they failed there
Why is it that "Evangelical" has come to mean.exclusively conservative evangelical. In my book, being evangelical is about my attitude to sharing the good news of Kt Christ, not holding to a particular set of beliefs. It seems to me that some polemicists seem to have forgotten that God is Love! Sadly, some self-styled "Evangelicals" more like Satatn's. spawn. I pray that they may yet repent.
The Bible is clear what to do if you are in a false church, such as the Roman Catholic Church and others who do not stick to God's word alone: "Come out of her, my people, and be not partakers of her sin and that ye receive not her plagues." - Revelation 18:4
Before you go taking pot shots at the Catholics put your own Protestant house in order first snd do something about all these progressives.
@@jabujolly9020 My particular congregation is Biblically sound. I can't speak for anyone else.
The RC might believe in the infallibility of the Pope (in strictly limited circumstances), Protestants ultimately believe in the infallibility of every individual to come up with their own interpretations of the Bible - and thus literally the thousands of churches dividing and subdividing plus the many thousands of individuals who claim to be Bible believing Christians who are no longer members of any community of faith.
@@willx9352 Christians are followers of Jesus Christ if they are born again. It has nothing to do with a denomination. There are millions of Christians around the world. They are not zombies. No one thinks exactly alike. Every individual is at a different stage in their spiritual journey. But the redeemed are all on the same path. If they are truly saved they belong to God and no one can snatch them from His hand.
@@johnbrowne3950 That is your interpretation of the Bible - it is not shared by the majority of other Christians - including most protestants! As I said, protestants make every person a Pope.
What the evangelical holdouts in the PCUSA and ECO (as well as the EPC) don't seem to understand is that their affirmation of the unbiblical practice of ordaining women to the offices of pastor and elder is their Achilles heel. Former PCUSA General Assembly moderator, and Fuller Seminary professor, Jack Rogers was entirely correct when he said that if you can learn to read the Bible in such a way that allows for the ordination of women to be pastors and elders you can learn to read the Bible in such a way that allows for the ordination of active homosexuals (and for that matter, pretty much anything else). If you truly want renewal, you need to repent and stop blatantly disobeying Scripture. "Whatever thing I command you, that you shall observe to do. You shall not add to it, nor take away from it." (Deuteronomy 12:32) My wife is still a member of First Presbyterian Church Colorado Springs, which is one of the founding churches of ECO. What I find there is simply a mass of theological confusion. They don't seem to know what they believe, and I've heard some really bad (bordering on un-Christian) and un-Presbyterian doctrine taught in the Sunday school class. Their lead pastor, Tim McConnell, seems to be sound theologically, but when the women get up to speak they almost always wonder off into some kind of social justice silliness. I keep telling them that I wish I could teach them how to be real Presbyterians, so far they haven't taken me up on the offer.
Why not just LEAVE and go somewhere else? Honestly, it is just stupid to remain when you aren't comfortable. The church you "hold out" in isn't going to change. You are just going to be miserable and be branded a "Karen" by leadership. This same thing is happening in the UMC with GMC holdouts. They just make things worse for everyone.