Open-Ended Puzzle Design at Zachtronics

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  • Опубліковано 18 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 63

  • @AlekseyLoykuts
    @AlekseyLoykuts 5 років тому +111

    It's so cool, when you can print out documentation for shenzhen i/o and play with pokerface, while others at home think you're doing some actual work

  • @Soul-Burn
    @Soul-Burn 5 років тому +123

    "If it took 2 hours to solve it was probably too hard" ...
    haha hahaha...
    Some puzzles in SpaceChem or TIS-100 took me... way more than 2 hours.

    • @Cheesecannon25
      @Cheesecannon25 5 років тому +2

      That's why I couldn't play SpaceChem past the first few puzzles.

    • @PGMT22
      @PGMT22 5 років тому +13

      As much as i love Zachtronics games, i typically quit about 1/3 or halfway through when most of the game time is spent staring at the screen slowly debugging things

    • @prototypeinheritance515
      @prototypeinheritance515 5 років тому +3

      @@PGMT22 same for me, except for exapunks

    • @capnthepeafarmer
      @capnthepeafarmer 5 років тому

      I think I've got a couple HUNDRED hours in spacechem.

    • @Sintarzus
      @Sintarzus 5 років тому +2

      @@PGMT22 same, but on the middle-late part. Puzzles are exponentially difficult, and last ones are a total bs. Like afterending of Opus Magnum, with walls and stuff, or all second half of the Infinifactory.

  • @Lishtenbird
    @Lishtenbird 5 років тому +41

    Dunno how much I learned about designing open-ended puzzles... but as a comedy show, I enjoyed that a lot :D

    • @bagok701
      @bagok701 5 років тому +28

      I took this away from the talk:
      1. Make tools and proccesses not puzzles,
      2. dont arbitrailily constrain the tools to teach them,
      3. make targets as puzzles _not_ constrained scenarios
      4. use metrics to watch for bounce rate on puzzels

    • @chriswahl1337
      @chriswahl1337 4 роки тому +4

      I was literally gonna say something similar. It was good to listen to while cleaning the garage. 😅

    • @nobytes2
      @nobytes2 4 роки тому +1

      Is GDC not a workshop. If you read his zack-like book you'll get a better insight on how he designs his games, but ultimately design is all about self experimentation.

  • @silverhammermba
    @silverhammermba 2 роки тому +13

    "Your question has to be one sentence" is a fantastic idea. I wish more speakers implemented that rule. "Hi, big fan of your games, I've been playing since..."

    • @revimfadli4666
      @revimfadli4666 2 роки тому +3

      Very on-brand too, optimisations and such

  • @riveteye93
    @riveteye93 5 років тому +9

    Thanks for having this talk, any insight into the design of Zachtronics games is a treasure.

  • @vitorgas1
    @vitorgas1 5 років тому +46

    Zach optimizes even when talking, he speaks very fast

  • @marti0nesorare356
    @marti0nesorare356 5 років тому +2

    Thanks for the talk Zach! And thanks gdc

  • @Vospi
    @Vospi 5 років тому +6

    It must be a great system to work out your personal goals and business.
    Abstract enough, open-ended enough, restricted, tested.

  • @JinKee
    @JinKee 5 років тому +16

    "instead of teaching them harder we just made it easier to use" if only chip makers could make new masks to do that.

    • @hauntedshadowslegacy2826
      @hauntedshadowslegacy2826 5 років тому +3

      If only the education industry didn't force harder teaching on everybody just so they can make a quick buck.

  • @PsychadelicoDuck
    @PsychadelicoDuck 5 років тому +5

    A very meandering talk, but enjoyable to listen to and sprinkled with interesting bits.

  • @willhart2188
    @willhart2188 5 років тому +3

    I love these games.

  •  2 роки тому

    I deeply admire this guy.
    And I don't say such thing often.

  • @Epinardscaramel
    @Epinardscaramel Рік тому +1

    Their process is almost the opposite of the ""usual"" way of making puzzle games 😮

  • @MartinClausen
    @MartinClausen 5 років тому +13

    Why can't crafting be skills based?

    • @corvus418
      @corvus418 4 роки тому +7

      Crafting more often than not is inventory management and fetch quests, both tedious systems.

  • @dylanknight1237
    @dylanknight1237 4 роки тому

    36:32 through 46:22 is supremely good

  • @phitrum
    @phitrum 2 роки тому +1

    Double checks that playback speed is set to normal

  • @raven9057
    @raven9057 5 років тому +7

    A very very underrated game developer. Thumbs up for Zach and Jonathan Blow to create a game together.

    • @JohnDiGrizUkraine
      @JohnDiGrizUkraine 3 роки тому +1

      I'm not sure it would work out, since they have such an opposite approach to making puzzles

  • @karlstenator
    @karlstenator 5 років тому +1

    I freakin' love Spacechem >_

  • @andriypredmyrskyy7791
    @andriypredmyrskyy7791 3 роки тому +3

    This just in from zach: the Riemann hypothesis must have lots of solutions, cuz we don't know what the solution is!

  • @TheLavaBlock
    @TheLavaBlock 5 років тому +1

    very inspiring

  • @sirdiealot7805
    @sirdiealot7805 5 років тому +30

    This talk was rather confusing, it was more the podcaster talking and putting words in Zach's mouth.

    • @Thedamped
      @Thedamped 5 років тому +5

      I actually thought it was one of the most informative GDC talks I've listened to.

    • @tomsko863
      @tomsko863 5 років тому

      @Bobo That's what they mentioned at the beginning, but it still wasn't very good.
      Besides a handful of bulletpoints about how the story was integrated with the puzzles, it sounded like two friends gushing over old times.
      I found "Game Maker's Toolkit
      " 6 minute long video (ua-cam.com/video/w1_zmx-wU0U/v-deo.html) more informative and insightful than this hour long video.

    • @voltcorp
      @voltcorp 3 роки тому

      honestly I think the designer is just not good at giving talks or doesn't like doing so, and this was the solution

  • @spenzakwsx4430
    @spenzakwsx4430 3 роки тому

    the thumbnail of your video looks very cool. what game ist that?

  • @pdrg
    @pdrg 5 років тому +2

    Paper FTW. Imagine an infinitely resizable tactile monitor at print resolution which you can put in your pocket.

  • @mykalimba
    @mykalimba 5 років тому +1

    First question: did Zach start the session by taking a big swig of milk from a carton? 🤔

    • @Spookyhoobster
      @Spookyhoobster 5 років тому

      I've seen those cartons in a few different talks.

    • @BasiCitizen
      @BasiCitizen 5 років тому

      Water also comes in cartons so it might be that. "Boxed water is better" or "Just water" are a few brands you might see at stores. The goal is to cut back on making more plastic bottles....or maybe they just like cartons. Who knows.

  • @KlausWulfenbach
    @KlausWulfenbach 5 років тому

    Evidently Cool Dad is basically Hot Dad with more (?) vaping.

    • @THB192
      @THB192 3 роки тому

      I literally confused Cool Dad and Hot Dad.

  • @calbagarlock1122
    @calbagarlock1122 4 роки тому +1

    Why can't crafting be skills based?
    Zach optimizes even when talking, he speaks very fast
    Zach optimizes even when talking, he speaks very fast

  • @metafuel
    @metafuel 5 років тому

    I get the feeling Zach Barth and Elon Musk need to connect. Both appear to be trying to translate their own really complicated thought processes to mere humans.

  • @DM-qm5sc
    @DM-qm5sc 5 років тому +3

    I wish he included anti trump messages in exapunks.

    • @ThePC007
      @ThePC007 5 років тому +21

      Lolwut?

    • @Hoichael
      @Hoichael 5 років тому +21

      Why though? I can't say that I'm a fan of Trump, but injecting concrete political messages into your game will only result in alienating half of your potential playerbase just because you don't agree with their worldview. That's as ignorant and childish as it is stupid.

    • @Sintarzus
      @Sintarzus 5 років тому +2

      But why though? Exapunks is already political, most cyberpunk stories are, it just not THAT explicit about it.

    • @nobytes2
      @nobytes2 4 роки тому

      no

    • @THB192
      @THB192 3 роки тому

      @@Hoichael You assume half of zach's playerbase wouldn't agree with an anti-trump message, which I doubt.
      As for why someone would do something like that, it's because sometimes it's worth taking a stand for what you believe in, even if you don't necessarily benefit financially from it. It's not childish at all.