My favourite Cav&Pag. I was surprised to hear that you think it gets overlooked. I really thought it was kind of ubiquitous and I was even under the (it appears, mistaken) impression that it was the reference recording for these two sweaty spaghetti westerns.
Yes, this is the bit I don’t understand. From Lucia in Berlin across the Puccini with L Price and Freni, all those fab Verdi recordings ending up with the most fabulously conducted Ballo, Karajan was one of the most fab conductors of the Italian repertory.
Karajan was maybe the greatest Puccini conductor of the postwar period, & almost equally fine in Verdi. That his Cav & Pag are outstanding shouldn't be a surprise, but I guess maybe it is these days.
Joan Carlyle passed away just a couple of years ago and was a lovely soprano who was on contract to Covent Garden for many years ( thanks to Kubelik.) Karajan seems to have given her sensible roles for her voice , Mimi in La Boheme at La Scala and Zdenka in Arabella with Lisa Della Casa. She was also mentored by Kempe. It is a strange thing that Karajan's influence while seemingly destructive vocally to some was beneficial to others. A good influence example being Elizabeth Harwood who gradually expanded her repertoire of roles with him , moving from lighter coloratura to lyric soprano repertoire including Arabella , Marschallin etc up until her sad early death . He seemed willing to balance the orchestral sound so that she never had to force in any way. On the other hand you have the example of lyrical voices tackling Turandot etc, on the pretext Maestro wanted it to 'sound beautiful' and ending up in difficulty.
Thanks again for an interesting video. Like some of the other comments, I am surprised that this is an overlooked set. Unless you take the Callas version, I would have thought that this would be the reference recording for the twin bill. Over the years, I have had to revise my sense of Karajan to allow for his Italian side. With all of these, I have found the date is key. Before he fell overly in love with himself, not just the studio Verdi operas but his live performances of Don Carlo and Trovatore are gripping. Similarly, he obviously loved the Requiem since he made so many version of that. Perhaps, one day we will have a reissue of the one with Price, Cossotto, Pavarrotti, and Ghiaurov, also with La Scala and from the same date as the Cav and Pag.
Ever since these two recordings came out they've always been pretty much the reference for everyone I know. And why shouldn't we expect Karajan to do well with this repertoire? He spent a lot of time in the opera pit, from Aachen to Vienna. His Hansel & Gretel, Falstaff, Rosenkavalier, La Boheme and much more are top-drawer stuff.
I learned these operas from this recording. I had them on cassette tapes (I don't even want to recall how many year ago) so threw them away at aome stage when i no longer had a tape player.
Dear Mr Hurwitz, I am not quite sure about what you said on the relathionship between Christa Ludwig and Herbert von Karajan is correct. If my memory is right, Christa Ludwig knew Herbert von Karajan for a long time (when he was director of the opera at Aachen), way before she became a singer. She said once on the French radio France Musique that she used to call him by his first name and to express her viewpoints without him getting mad! About Astrid Varnay, you have probably forgotten the Salzburg 64 production of Elektra for which Mrs Varnay and Moedl were on stage ! It is a quite memorable recording even though the sonics are not that great !
I have not forgotten anything. The Elektra was Varnay and Karajan's "reconciliation," and after that Karajan said he had no desire to touch the opera again. As to Ludwig, she was one of the few singers who could say no to Karajan and get away with it, and that was what I was referring to. It's all discussed in her memoirs.
I believe every word you said about this exceptional set. I bought the original release (1968?) at Korvette’s - if anyone is familiar with that superstore - in a plush red box with foil-stamped type, and at half price because they had the curious habit of pricing multiple disc LP boxes as 1 disc. After listening to this Cav / Pag, I must say, in retrospect, that my view of the set then is much the same as yours now. On seeing the theme of this episode, the first thing that popped in mind was -Joan Carlyle!- remembering that she was such unusual casting - I had never heard of her when the set was released. Thank you for your enthusiasm - Apple Music stream here we come!
Apparently, the only two pieces that ‘defeated’ Karajan were Bruckner 6 (many fall at that fence, so he’s in good company) and ….Rhapsody in Blue, to which he couldn’t bring what was needed (I don’t think he recorded it commercially). Von K’s Cav and Pag are excellent and he transforms the La Scala pit orchestra. Heresy maybe, but I prefer Levine’s Cav, with Domingo and Scotto. Levine whips it along and the principals are at their best.
I’m reasonably sure Vickers would’ve said ‘No’ to Karajan but I think Von K may have sensed that and steered clear of asking him to do anything ‘risky’.
Dave, speaking of Karajan I just read this joke. Have you heard it before? Herbert von Karajan was in Heaven, at the conductor’s eternal banquet. He was asked, “Who is the greatest conductor of all time?” He said, “Me, off course!” “How do you know that?” he was asked. “Gott tolt me!” And from an adjacent table spoke up Leonard Bernstein, “I did no such thing!”
I'm a bit surprised you would consider this oveerlooked. Not only does it seem to top most "reference" lists for these works, but DG recently reissued this in a deluxe CD/Blu-Ray edition. It's about the only Cav&Pag you can find in classical record stores nowadays.
Actually he did say no to Karajan. Namely, Karajan recorded the audio version of Madama Butterfly with Pavarotti and Freni but decided to record the video version with Domingo and Freni. Some say he found Domingo visually more appealing as Pinkerton than Pavarotti and that Pavarotti didn't accept this switch very well (I think the whole cast was identical on audio and video version, with exception of Pavarotti). However, Madama Butterfly was the last recording he did with Karajan and that was in earlier part of his career. Some say Karajan was ready to record with Pavarotti more Puccini and Verdi after Madama Butterfly, but Pavarotti made other prominent collaborations.
Nor were they almost 2 decades later when he was Booed by the claque in Don Carlo (Muti, c) Opening night 7 December. Il giorno di San Ambrosio patron saint of Milano.
I don’t find HvK’s success with this Cav/Pag recording to be “surprising,” at all. Of course, that could be due to the fact that this recording is sort of “imprinted” on me-I almost can’t remember a time that I didn’t consider it to be the gold standard pairing of these two operas.
One of my favorite opera recordings. Sumptuous in the Karajan style, excellent singing, and sonically brilliant.
My favourite Cav&Pag. I was surprised to hear that you think it gets overlooked. I really thought it was kind of ubiquitous and I was even under the (it appears, mistaken) impression that it was the reference recording for these two sweaty spaghetti westerns.
Yes he just transformed those operas for me. Gorgeous conducting allied to the drama
Yes, this is the bit I don’t understand. From Lucia in Berlin across the Puccini with L Price and Freni, all those fab Verdi recordings ending up with the most fabulously conducted Ballo, Karajan was one of the most fab conductors of the Italian repertory.
Karajan was maybe the greatest Puccini conductor of the postwar period, & almost equally fine in Verdi. That his Cav & Pag are outstanding shouldn't be a surprise, but I guess maybe it is these days.
Joan Carlyle passed away just a couple of years ago and was a lovely soprano who was on contract to Covent Garden for many years ( thanks to Kubelik.) Karajan seems to have given her sensible roles for her voice , Mimi in La Boheme at La Scala and Zdenka in Arabella with Lisa Della Casa. She was also mentored by Kempe.
It is a strange thing that Karajan's influence while seemingly destructive vocally to some was beneficial to others. A good influence example being Elizabeth Harwood who gradually expanded her repertoire of roles with him , moving from lighter coloratura to lyric soprano repertoire including Arabella , Marschallin etc up until her sad early death . He seemed willing to balance the orchestral sound so that she never had to force in any way.
On the other hand you have the example of lyrical voices tackling Turandot etc, on the pretext Maestro wanted it to 'sound beautiful' and ending up in difficulty.
Marvelous recording for both singing cast and conducting
Thanks again for an interesting video. Like some of the other comments, I am surprised that this is an overlooked set. Unless you take the Callas version, I would have thought that this would be the reference recording for the twin bill. Over the years, I have had to revise my sense of Karajan to allow for his Italian side. With all of these, I have found the date is key. Before he fell overly in love with himself, not just the studio Verdi operas but his live performances of Don Carlo and Trovatore are gripping. Similarly, he obviously loved the Requiem since he made so many version of that. Perhaps, one day we will have a reissue of the one with Price, Cossotto, Pavarrotti, and Ghiaurov, also with La Scala and from the same date as the Cav and Pag.
Ever since these two recordings came out they've always been pretty much the reference for everyone I know. And why shouldn't we expect Karajan to do well with this repertoire? He spent a lot of time in the opera pit, from Aachen to Vienna. His Hansel & Gretel, Falstaff, Rosenkavalier, La Boheme and much more are top-drawer stuff.
You left out his Verdi Requiem, the singers were Lyontine Price, Fiorenza Cosotto, Luciano Pavarotti and Nikolai Ghiaurov, at La Scala.
I learned these operas from this recording. I had them on cassette tapes (I don't even want to recall how many year ago) so threw them away at aome stage when i no longer had a tape player.
A performer once said that for these works, especially Pag, there were "before Karajan" and "after Karajan" interpretive eras. He cleaned them up,
Taddei's Prologue is epic.
Any role sung by Taddei is epic. One of the greatest baritones in the recorded era.
Dear Mr Hurwitz, I am not quite sure about what you said on the relathionship between Christa Ludwig and Herbert von Karajan is correct. If my memory is right, Christa Ludwig knew Herbert von Karajan for a long time (when he was director of the opera at Aachen), way before she became a singer. She said once on the French radio France Musique that she used to call him by his first name and to express her viewpoints without him getting mad! About Astrid Varnay, you have probably forgotten the Salzburg 64 production of Elektra for which Mrs Varnay and Moedl were on stage ! It is a quite memorable recording even though the sonics are not that great !
I have not forgotten anything. The Elektra was Varnay and Karajan's "reconciliation," and after that Karajan said he had no desire to touch the opera again. As to Ludwig, she was one of the few singers who could say no to Karajan and get away with it, and that was what I was referring to. It's all discussed in her memoirs.
I believe every word you said about this exceptional set. I bought the original release (1968?) at Korvette’s - if anyone is familiar with that superstore - in a plush red box with foil-stamped type, and at half price because they had the curious habit of pricing multiple disc LP boxes as 1 disc. After listening to this Cav / Pag, I must say, in retrospect, that my view of the set then is much the same as yours now. On seeing the theme of this episode, the first thing that popped in mind was -Joan Carlyle!- remembering that she was such unusual casting - I had never heard of her when the set was released. Thank you for your enthusiasm - Apple Music stream here we come!
“Mario, Mario, Mario…check out my beubs”! That’s such a great story Dave😂
Apparently, the only two pieces that ‘defeated’ Karajan were Bruckner 6 (many fall at that fence, so he’s in good company) and ….Rhapsody in Blue, to which he couldn’t bring what was needed (I don’t think he recorded it commercially). Von K’s Cav and Pag are excellent and he transforms the La Scala pit orchestra. Heresy maybe, but I prefer Levine’s Cav, with Domingo and Scotto. Levine whips it along and the principals are at their best.
I’m reasonably sure Vickers would’ve said ‘No’ to Karajan but I think Von K may have sensed that and steered clear of asking him to do anything ‘risky’.
Dave, speaking of Karajan I just read this joke. Have you heard it before?
Herbert von Karajan was in Heaven, at the conductor’s eternal banquet. He was asked, “Who is the greatest conductor of all time?” He said, “Me, off course!” “How do you know that?” he was asked. “Gott tolt me!” And from an adjacent table spoke up Leonard Bernstein, “I did no such thing!”
Yes, it's an oldie!
I'm a bit surprised you would consider this oveerlooked. Not only does it seem to top most "reference" lists for these works, but DG recently reissued this in a deluxe CD/Blu-Ray edition. It's about the only Cav&Pag you can find in classical record stores nowadays.
That's my experience.
Luciano Pavarotti never said no to Karajan. He needed his support in his early year, the La Scala patrons were not exactly enamored with him.
Actually he did say no to Karajan. Namely, Karajan recorded the audio version of Madama Butterfly with Pavarotti and Freni but decided to record the video version with Domingo and Freni. Some say he found Domingo visually more appealing as Pinkerton than Pavarotti and that Pavarotti didn't accept this switch very well (I think the whole cast was identical on audio and video version, with exception of Pavarotti). However, Madama Butterfly was the last recording he did with Karajan and that was in earlier part of his career. Some say Karajan was ready to record with Pavarotti more Puccini and Verdi after Madama Butterfly, but Pavarotti made other prominent collaborations.
Nor were they almost 2 decades later when he was Booed by the claque in Don Carlo (Muti, c) Opening night 7 December. Il giorno di San Ambrosio patron saint of Milano.
I don’t find HvK’s success with this Cav/Pag recording to be “surprising,” at all. Of course, that could be due to the fact that this recording is sort of “imprinted” on me-I almost can’t remember a time that I didn’t consider it to be the gold standard pairing of these two operas.