DLSS 4 - The Next Big LEAP In Graphics, Says Nvidia
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- DLSS 4 - The Next Big LEAP In Graphics, Says Nvidia
Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang has made some very interesting comments about the NEXT gen of DLSS, AKA deep learning super sampling, their hugely popular upsampling technology. According to Jensen, the next gen of Nvidia DLSS is going to be VERY exciting and could not only VASTLY improve graphics but could open up a whole new world when it comes to remasters and remakes of classic games.
Join us as we examine Jensen's interview on the next gen DLSS (which could be DLSS 4 and found on next gen GPUs such as RTX 50 and RTX 60) and what these revolutions in upscaling - or more specifically, Nvidia's RTX upscaler - could mean for the future of game development. Especially with the prevalence of ray tracing in games, upscaling technologies like DLSS and FSR are almost essential as a PC gamer. But don't forget, this could also have some very interesting ramifications for the future of console gaming as well.
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But it'll be exclusive to the new 6xxx series, with a +35% price increase... /s
most likely, they'll make a special part of the silicon to run it, or probably beef the tensor cores to do that and not tax the rest of the GPU, it's it's the best solution tbh, about the price increase, I'm not sure lmao
Then AMD will make the same thing that will work on most GPUs
Wow, you're optimistic. Only 35% increase for the next hype AI feature, that would be a steal.
Oh damn, I think I broke my sarcasm meter... I should go fix that...
Yeah for sure
@@xpodx so everything that's not locked in into any eco system, like DX on xbox is vastly more optimized than one on PC, if you can fine tune everything and optimise then it will work much better... probably DLSS FG would crash constantly on 30 series if enabled just like that
These quotes by jensen sound a lot like an excuse to not give more raw performance gen after gen...which will play out with the RTX 5000 series...20-30% more performance than the RTX 4000 series except for the RTX 5090.
I agree with you about that but one thing is I have the program lossless scaling on my 7600 K with a 1060 3gb and the interpolation abilities give it some serious legs that it would not have just with raw hardware.
This is why competition is so important. Battlemage should launch later this year and is said to be very competitive in the midrange segment. I don't think drivers would be nearly as big of a problem for Battlemage as they were for Alchemist. If Battlemage can deliver a massive performance increase over Alchemist with good drivers at reasonable prices, I think there is a good chance Intel will gain quite a bit of market share in the discrete GPU market. The flagship RDNA 4 GPU is rumoured to offer 7900 XT levels of raster performance and 4080 RT performance at half the price, which would be fairly impressive. If RDNA 4 and Battlemage can deliver some powerful midrange GPUs at reasonable prices, then hopefully, it will convince Nvidia to pack significantly more processing power into their entry level and midrange GPUs. Competition can make that happen, and it benefits us consumers. It's the key to a healthy industry. RTX 40 was mostly just software upgrades and gimped hardware, resulting in lackluster raw performance at least for midrange RTX 40 GPUs. Everything below the 4080 in the 40 Series lineup is named incorrectly. The 4070 should have been the 4070 Ti. The 4060 should have been the 4060 Ti, etc.
Ray tracing and dlss requires far more raw compute performance then Stone Age raster.
@@Gamer-q7vintel GPUs will be even more compute heavy then NVIDIA if you are hoping for raster monster from intel you’ll be disappointed.
@@kingyogesh441 I think Battlemage will offer a decent performance uplift in rasterized games over Alchemist. The flagship Battlemage GPU should be at least 50% faster than the A770 in rasterization. That's definitely doable and shouldn't be that difficult to achieve.
With the habit of giving low VRAM, I was expecting DLSS 4 is for heavy textures compression but only time will tell. 🤷♀
If they do something about Vram, they won the generation
yeah maybe just add some vram instead thanks
But then why would you ever upgrade in a year? AMD sells diesel trucks and Nvidia sells disposable sports cars.
Cant wait for nvidia to start putting all their features behind a monthly subscription. The way it's meant to be paid!
they aint gonna care enough about the consumer market to get into any of that
People like you are weird for wanting technology to stagnate just because you make minimum wage or don't even have a job, or whatever the fuck
DLSS is already looks better at 1440p and 4k in games that use TAA/FXAA/TSR for anti aliasing. Have no doubts it will continue to improve.
i like dlss but you must be blind if you cant tell its worse than without it at 1440p
at 4k it looks fine for me
@@Shonkuk1 DLSDR at 1440p looks fantastic though for very little performance overhead. Really bridges the gap between 1440p and 4k visually.
@@Shonkuk1 digital foundry and hardware unboxed have also found that it looks better. Some older games with older versions of DLSS and or MSAA options can have native look better. But new releases use TAA. DLSS is a better version of Temporal reconstruction image reconstruction than TAA.
@@Shonkuk1
Bullshit
MSAA TAA FXAA and any other AA form is terrible and makes the native 1440p looks worse while performing terribly.
DLSS is currently the best form of AA
"in games that use TAA/FXAA/TSR for anti aliasing"
That's because those already set the bar low by DECREASING image quality to begin with.
FXAA is basically screen space anti aliasing, the image quality is for s**t vs older techniques that only work on forward rendering before deferred become the game engine choice du jour..
“A company says their own product will be the best ever.” How is this news?
it will be news if that were to be proven false. ;D
they say this every gen but the only thing we get is more fake pixels for more $
One interesting feature would be to do re-lighting with ai. The game would render a geometry buffer + material info with no lighting and flat texturing. The nueral model would understand the scene and with this addiotional information it could calculate very sophisticated lighting with caustics and shadows. Perhaps some day it's going to be possible. Also sophiaticated animations of pixar movie quality of hair, water, minute muscles, fat under skin inertia etc could be generated instead of simulated... Talking of simulation, destruction could be generated instead of simulated as well, probably on sophistication level where it wouldn't be cost effective to rig it by an artist and simulate at runtime.
Nvidia has Remix which is basically what you described as it evolves. There is an open source library that anyone can use, I'm in the middle of getting it to work with older games.
The most important thing is more performance with the same quality, already in CP2077 in 4k PT ON and DLSSQ 4090 do only 40 FPS, but minimum needed to smooth game and run FG is 60 FPS, need to have FASTER DLSS with the same QUALITY or even better, but the most important is performance, not quality
Rome wasn't built in a day. The fact that we're at the point where demanding modern titles like that can be fully path traced at playable frame rates is incredible. It's ok for games to scale with future hardware. Better than paying for a remaster down the line.
The thing is, they seem to be wanting to put out a stagnating cards with artificial improvements, they can just invent "better" performance by using AI instead of actual performance.
DLSS 4+ only on RTX 5000?
That's what I'm thinking.
Yeah and no backwards compat even though it would work.
How else are they going to incentivize people to buy their latest gen cards? Hahaha
You MIGHT be able to use AI to convert a typical scene with standard lighting to where it has RT. It would have to be some pretty well developing AI to do ONLY that specific thing though because RT means setting attributes for objects and what that AI would have to do is predict what those attributes would be based on the current lighting effects. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not going to happen anytime soon. Nvidia has their hands in a WHOLE BUNCH of stuff right now that every project they take on is new engineers, workers, and they'd have to be sure they'll have the market for it. They wouldn't make and train this AI unless different customers already said they'd use it to remaster games or to convert a game to RT.
And it would be helpful because even if the AI doesn't do great, it would get attributes entered into different objects and then game devs could edit it.
The PS6 could definitely have full PS1,2 and 3 backwards compatibility via brute force emulation. Whether Sony does it is another matter, but one can dream.
Why would you want to run those old, ugly ass games on a 4K TV lmao.
@@ZackSNetwork I guess you're unaware of how good upscailing has gotten. Research the Retrotink 4k, its amazing. Also nothing stopping someone from having a smaller secondary 720p or 1080p TV for retro gaming if you think 4k is too high of a resolution for these old games despite upscailing. I guarantee the PS6 will still be backwards compatible with old HDMI 720p TVs.
@@ZackSNetwork You must be a child, because most of the best games ever made were from the PS1 and PS2 generations. Plus, if sony goes beyond just emulating the games, a lot of them will look pretty decent running at native 4K (or higher).
I'd like to see a project that uses a deep learning model to synthesize sounds, textures, and other information based on developer's text input at run-time-consistently and accurately. Imagine what this would do to game storage requirements that are ballooning right now.
I dabbled with Silly Tavern and I think that the concept of the Lore Books used there would be great to have for games. It would need to be pretty complex as it should have a way to determine the limits of knowledge for the NPCs. e.g. one town in a fantasy world might not know anything about another town which is on the other side of the game map. But knowledge could be transfered from place to place via trader's gossip. Though how this would pan out on a persistent world would be interesting, like in WoW you could have some characters in the world understand your character titles ... "OMG it is Timmy the Dragon Slayer" ... and have all of the dragonkin in the area being a bit twitchy around you.
I am SO hyped for AI 3d asset generation. It will be years from now, but think of how much work (=money) it will save.
We are already seeing AI assisting with animation. MetaHuman looks great, and AI to smooth NPC replies is a breath of fresh air.
But asset generation is my holy grail. It will help movie/TV creations as well.
Some of the examples shown buggs me. Those that show what I think is from Skyrim. What buggs me is that the ones said to describe Raytracing and DLSS and so on are not using the same textures or models as used in the parts said to showing the original game. Texture packs and models are not part of RT or DLSS. Sure the original is old and looks old today, but if you are demonstrating the new tech both examples should use the same data for textures and 3D objects. Sure it wont look as impressive, but that's still the truth. Modern GPU capable of handling RT and DLSS or similar tech can also handle the same textures and 3D data when doing normal rendering.
Thr didnt say next gen they said in the future dont assume.
Also people who dont understand whats about to happen is they are going to legit imorove the way things look. It isnt just upscaling its generating new details. So before yall judge it dont assume or weird out. Its going to be amazing if you look at what nvidia has done already.
For sure more A, I and price!
1:42 - AI powered Ray Tracing is so amazing it can generate objects that were never part of the game, lol...That's some fierce AI!
Gonna be a thing to use along Frame Gen so you get enough delayed frames to Generate visuals on the fly but I def see where its gonna go. I think VR would be a great experience to generate Phantasy style worlds on the fly
Probably not gonna happen, but after now experiencing the M3 Pro first hand... Maybe future consoles might go ARM instead of x86. Seeing how in slashes my R7 5700x in DaVinci-performance... Yeah, I know, the GPU-performance is not there yet... But, there are also some years left until a PS6 hits the store-shelves.
No chance. Games are always about IPC and clock speeds, that single core performance. Throwing lots of weaker cores at it ain't gonna help like it does with software like DaVinci. Arm is a mobile technology. It's not gonna replace x86 in desktop or console anytime soon.
elden ring still doesn't have DLSS and it upsets me :/
Also the game is locked to 60fps which is super annoying
Has a mod if I am not mistaken
@@MichusubPl Locked to 60 fps on PC sounds archaic af
And cruel! 😮💨😤 @@phlixcarbon
@@apostleoffate2028 It does but then you have to play offline without the invasions, messages from other players and blood stains
If textures are generated from lower quality to higher quality, that might reduce vram problem for 8gb vram cards.
Thats the only thing that can make remakes and remasters easier to do, i definitely believe is texture related, several diferent res of textures from 480p to 1080p and 4k
if this version of DLSS will even be offered to older gen cards. It might be next gen exclusive.
I wonder what would happen if nvidia had their own CPUs. Would like to see how they utilize them together
They had Tegra with ARM, its nothing special. It couldn't compete in high end consoles, nor can it compete in smartphones. They may be a GPU powerhouse, but they aren't instantly going to dominate in CPU space.
The CPU will only works with the GPU from the same gen or something like that probably...
It seems you have missed that Nvidia is rumoured to be releaseing a Windows ARM SOC, after Qualcomms exclusivity is over in about a year or so. The whole ARM ecosystem is coming to Windows form probably all the old ARM SOC manufacturers.
Nvidia is now partnered with MediaTek who have ARM licence, so we may see something in the near future
Nvidia is getting into the CPU business soon too.
I hope it works on Rtx 4000 series.
it 90% wont
LOL it will have the hardware natively, but nvidia will lock it out.
@@jacobbolle1376 Unfortunately, This will most likely be true.
and RTX 3000 series owners hoped DLSS3 (frame generation) would work on their cards. Cmon, you oughta know how Nvidia is by now.
"Burgers and fries are VASTLY good for you," says McDonalds.
We wouldn't need ai (ntc) for textures if devs were actually coding properly for today standard ( 8gb vram for most)
I am talking about sampler feedback streaming.
A system that would allow the gpu to stream only the part of textures that aren't obstructed
( resemble a lot to mesh shading but for textures) ..
Imagine playing at native 4k on an 8gb 128bit buss gpu without penalty coming from the bandwidth ....
The bottleneck simply wouldn't be the bandwidth anymore.
We also need vrs tier 2.
+3 to 5% performance without noticing the downgrade. The gpu would simply compute less pixels in areas of the screen that were flagged as ( hard to see )
And of course we need mesh shading .
Mesh shading would be the most effective in massive cities where there is a ton of meshes.
What if i told you , you could play cyberpunk at native 4k + at 60 fps and at max settings ( without rt) on a bare rtx 4060 + r5 7600 all of the time with those tech ?
Sounds unbelievable but it could be a reality 😅....
So Nvidia is going to incorporate Remix into DLSS? Im still trying to get Remix to work, what the hay Jay?
DLSS is still soap image without hard sharpening
Looks better than native to me, except when compared to DLAA
Maybe if you play in 480p , 1440p looks decent to a point it's hard to tell the difference between Native vs Quality DLSS.
@@darkfire3691 in 1440p it looks worse in almost every game.
Image is less sharp.
Its most visible in motion and the worst when you look at a lot of trees, bushes etc
The Best looking dlss game is cyberpunk but even this game had a Little blur\soap image.
Dying light 2 had very messy trees/bushes when using DLSS
DLAA had the same problem. The only thing that can help is sharpening.
I have a few friends that never using dlss because of blur or artifacts / strange looking motion objects like vegetation.
I'm always tuning of blur deep of field in every game so for me everything is visible.
I cant wait for the AI characters where you have to have an actual conversation to in order to collect data for game progression. Its going to be dope!
Nvidia will make the 4090 obsolete as soon as possible with their feature lock-outs. Also, Jensen is lying when he says he cares about gamers because you don't force high prices on people that you care about.
Companies don’t care about customers they just want money.
Innovation costs money and gaming is still a relatively cheap hobby even at the highest end especially when you're already in the eco system and have old parts to sell.
I'll get excited when Path Tracing is the only way scenes are rendered. Rasterisation needs to hit the bin! I may have a long wait.
Thanks Paul! Hope your day goes great as well.
Reshade does a lot visually with games when development are sloppy in most cases.
Great, I can see devs putting in even less effort now on textures
The start of the video made me chuckle with the footage of the RC car game.
Are people still kiiding themselves this is going to be an actual game?
oh hell yes. Dlss has been incredible
Let me guess the next gen DLSS is an RTX5000 exclusive feature get your wallets ready folks it will be the most expensive generation yet.
Guessing algorithms + high power...and real engineers who want to actually solve the problem get no funding.
Watch amd make a version 1-2 years later with no BS hardware requirements
Yeah, finally.... DLSS 4 for series 5000 only, it's time to move to 5090 for basic gamers
Nvidia also promised 2-4x more performance multiple times...
Nearly all emulators support custom textures in games. I would never recommend it though as in most cases the custom textures lack mipmaps so they end up as jagged messes even if they look great in still shots.
If AI increases framerates, that would be nice. Thumbs up.
I’d be very interested to know IF next gen DLSS will ‘vastly improve Graphics’ personally I think not
It'll make the the barely better looking features a bit less resource expensive.
that's right, frame generation, not frame interpolation like amd
Nvidia is moving to these gimmicks because they are not dependent on the quality of game development. Poorly made games get big performance boosts and consumers credit Nvidia. Raster performance is largely dependent on the quality of game development and even the design philosophy used to make the games. Nvidia can throw all the power they can at a game and some dev team will be satisfied to just let the video card force into 40fps instead of optimizing.
I love the b-roll with rtx on vs off and the main difference is massively upgraded texture. Nvidia is a pathological liar. EVERYTHING is a misrepresentation of reality.
umm except consoles dont use Nvidia, they use AMD which is much worse at this sort of thing
Ladies and gentlemen, my name's Paul and this is between y'all.
I wish Sony would ditch AMD for Intel or Nvidia
More fake frames….yaaaay. What happened to raw power of the GPU.
They will sell the card as a real ram like they did fake frame by putting a name sake hardware optixal crap
Some good points about the possibilities, but it's irritating to see Jensen talk about an AI 'texture improvement' toy when they still skimp on VRAM offerings, hurting textures in enough games. SMDH
I don’t care how good it looks visually, I care if it’s actually fun and entertaining. The Switch has better games than Xbox series or PS5, and will always have better games, period. Gameplay > Graphics. All these AAA companies are working with SBI now and all these games keep sucking ass, and majority of the new games coming look like ass. Give me a game that is fun and entertaining over a game that looks gorgeous and preaches the whole time about some bullshit I don’t care about.
Switch... bruh
Switch... bro!
Hope its better than dlss 3
"better graphics i tested today a myth the more mhz the gpu has the better are the graphics i undervolted and underclocked my gpu and tested it at a mmo at high settings:
at 1850mhz it looks really good with 1440p but not at 4k and 90fps and 70c vs 2650mhz (normal clocks) it looks so beautyful like a ps5 at 4k but 95-110c ....
the 800mhz more looks so much better like the same as from an gtx1660s to a rx7800xt both with rt on like :D
so why not try mmore clock as 1000000 ki tools?
Just like ray tracing, they will release the hardware and the software will take years to implement
Lovin the Nvidia updates!
Rtx 4000 just became obsolete
A "mid-spec" 40 series can already run basicaly everything with DLSS3 and fake frames + RT, so my guess is that they are moving away from raw performance increases and just get more AI features, geting them exclusive for the 50 series. We already know that AMD is not going to put much of a fight in the next generation, so it makes all the sense to just get more exclusive features and not raw performance...
probably will be good but like dlss be trash for the first 2 years. Better textures are pointless for nvidea unless you have the 3090 4090 5090 all other cards dont have enough vram for 4k.
DLSS 3.o just came out, can current cards use DLSS 4?
Ps5 pro will beat rtx 4080 with Ray tracing in 4k.
Nvidia says a lot of things.
So pretty 🤩
Vastly improve= unnoticeable stuff.
TLDR; Nothing new here.
So finally dlss becames realtime denoising thats not making ai generated texture jensen its a denoiser
No offense, I find dlss rather boring. You get fake frames, I just want well-optimized games with real frames. I don't care if we have to wait 10 more years for raytracing, if you need fake frames to make it work then I am not interested, not from NVidia and not from AMD.
sorry to tell you but those days are gone we will have a future full of AI upscalers and generated frames from now on.
Dlss is great in upscaling, dlss frame generation doesn’t have to be turned on when using just dlss
Games have always faked many things under the hood. You just never heard about them if you're not into the technical side of game development. All that matters is the end result. DLSS is probably the greatest innovation in rendering in the last decade. Granted it got off to a ropey start but the latest versions of it are fantastic and enable 4k gaming on a mid range card. Talking about the upscaling side of DLSS of course, frame gen has a way to go but it's only going to get better.
@@mojojojo6292 I program myself and I studied some computer science, I have a pretty good idea of the tricks, for example faking reflection. The end result is what matters but DLSS just doesn't give the same end result as without DLSS but properly optimized code, that is a fact. Some things can look better if a tool like DLSS or FSR works well (lines which look less jagged, letters which look a bit sharper), other things look worse, currently especially when high speed movement is involved. It doesn't necessarily look worse but it leads to muddy waters with developers getting away with even more atrocious coding and NVidia and AMD selling even worse graphics cards for the same money. They can just fool us into believing that the game works and that the graphics card is decent while we don't get that. Look for example at how much smaller the die of the 7800 XT is compared to the 6800 XT, look at how the 6700 XT got a smaller memory-bus (256=>192 bit). Same for NVidia, AMD just blindly follows NVidia instead of undercutting the price and selling more (maybe they can't because TSMC can't produce more for the same price per wafer, I don't know).
In regard to frame generation, I just don't want it. Upscaling will not look as good as when you render the graphics at that resolution and I definitely don't want extra frames inserted to fake a higher FPS because it won't improve the latency between the input from the player and the output in the game.
To be clear, I am not against DLSS or FSR being an option, I am against testing with it and not mentioning that you used it or not also testing without such tricks. Test the game with DLSS and FSR turned off and at 100% resolution and then we gamers can choose not to buy the game until the hardware is good enough to run it that way. This way at least there might be some healthy pressure on both AMD/NVdia and game-developers.
bla bla bla
lmao, dlss 1 2 and 3 have been shit. "trust me bro v4 isnt going to suck"
Upscaling is okay, frame generation is trash. nVidia need to stop making gimmick features.
I use FG on my 4090 and it is awesome
@@nuclearpcs2139 Why would you even use FG if you had a 4090, is there any game you can't run above 90fps with upscaler? FG increase your latency and lowers visual quality, its no longer worth trading FPS for frame generation if you are already hitting above 90fps without it.
@@skychaos87 At 4K there are games (patch tracing) where even standard DLSS2/3 is not enough to get 60fps, so I think FG makes sense. Of course frame generation increase latency, but if you look at console games they have even higher latency at standard 60fps, so I think people using FG will still have a great gaming experience, especially on gamepad.
@@PabloB888 Not even RT or PT is worth it as FG actually lowers your overall visual qualities with those artifacts, not to mention increased latency.
@skychaos87 You don't even notice FG artifacts 99% of the time. Even Digital Foundry agrees. Also, some people have 165hz or 240hz monitors, even a 4090 can't hit those framerates on newer games without FG. Also latency is never worse than the latency of the base framerate, in fact it's still usually better due to nVidia Reflex. The latency argument only works if your base framerate is already low. FG was designed to get around the issue of CPU bottlenecks, not to make low unplayable framerates playable.
Bullshit😂
why?
Bullshitake flavored AI ramen 🤣