High Guardian Spice's Creator Blames Budget on Series Shortcomings | Off The Cuff
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- Опубліковано 21 січ 2022
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High Guardian Spice is the perfect example of how NOT to write, animate and voice act. What a cautionary tale.
The only good thing about HGS is that it's a learning experience. I watch these videos on HGS so I know what NOT to do when creating a story, piece of media, etc.
Sort of like a "how not to" tutorial.
And a perfect example of a media scam and propaganda at the same time.
It's like Shyamalan's Last Airbender but animated lol.
This basic 101 that everyone knows and was pressured to do and these ppl threw it all out the window. Talk about waisted potential
The part about empathy is where Raye manages to lose mine. He's willfully ignoring all of the good faith criticism, all of the people in the lgbtq who appreciate the show's intent but are frustrated with how far short of the mark it fell, and just lumping everyone who criticized it together with the "lol sjw show bad" crowd. It is possible to have empathy for creators AND criticize their work, Raye.
That's the ....difficult part with dealing with "progressive" shows. You CAN'T critique shit about them or you're instantly labeled as sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc etc regardless of how genuine the critique may be. It's always the same story, "haters, bigots and trolls getting their way" but they never consider that if the negative feedback greatly overshadows the positives....then maybe, just maybe, the "haters" are right, and the product is legitimately bad.
@@kou7191 Reminds me of Sony's attitude towards The Last of Us 2's sex scene vs every anime game that shows skin. TLoU2 is revolutionary and brave for showing a sex scene. But anime games showing a bit of skin is a sacriledge. Sony (games?) itself left Japan to be in California, probably to cater more of a western (SJW) audience.
Bit of a reminder that Sony, the company above, owns crunchyroll AND funimation (which are still separate services).
That's why people write them off from the jump because they know how they're gonna react when it bombs. "Oh the typical anti SJW alt right people hate my work" Nah, everybody did and it isn't hate to point out how somebody disliked something. Like, do they not get what they're doing is a privilege not a right? So nobody HAS to like it which means they have to go all out and demand better from the fucking company that pushed the damn IP to be created. This some AAA game studio bullshit here for HGS. Promote it to death, then short change everything in production and blame others for why it failed. While lying to investors like they didn't pocket the money for something else.
@@icarue993 Sony 100% got subverted because those anime games were at times more progressive than their own BS. Like do they realize the women in Senran Kagura are either Bi or Gay? So what if there's cheesecake there's OF previews on Twitter timelines and all these companies hire people that most likely have some Moonlit adult content these days. Then yeah those dry ass sex scenes in TLoU2 are worse than what these Sony mooks claim the company is "better than".
Exactly. Raye doesn't seem to realize You can empathize with the people w/o empathizing with the product.
A talented writer doesn't automatically get worse with a lack of budget. A talented writer would still be pretty great regardless of budget. The writing of HGS has mistakes that aren't a product of a good writers who didn't have enough resources, it's a product of arrogant writers who didn't have the talent they thought they did and have to face that hard truth. This is just massive cope for Raye.
Great comment
"It was a tale told by an idiot"-Q
Pretty much, I wrote a quazi rescript for this show just to be an ass, and so far the people who saw it said it was much better than what we ended up getting.
and I was doing it to be spitel and in a couple hours. How long did it take them to come up with that garbage?
My big big problem was the 'transgender' reveal. Case for how I can handle it better; I would have snapdragon's story tie into this. Not Rosemary. Snapdragon starts having an identity crisis issue, develops a female persona to either be a gambler, a vigilante, something deemed 'not good' that he would need to keep hidden even though we can make it that the actions are moral, if not at least redeemable. Have Caraway notice that Snapdragon is using imperfect transformation magic and become SNAPDRAGON'S mentor, start by asking what they're doing, how they feel and then to bond reveal they were much the same. Along with the mentorship, help them learn better transformation methods to hold the spell longer or something (because everyone hates a character that starts off amazing at everything, make the STUDENTS actually work up to being good at something)
Not just a one second drop of "I'm transgender" bullshit. Make it story relevant. Make it relevant to a character. Make the struggle worth explaining in the universe.
and wouldja look at that, I wrote that without being paid a single red cent.
@@dragames I wanna read it
Talent isn't bought. It is earned, learned, and refined through years of practice, trial and error
I started writing around 2015 and my initial stories are very lacklustre and painfully average. Now, it's still average, but at least I can back up my claims of being able to create a competent story out of outlandish ideas
The vibe I get from High Guardian Spice as a whole is this sense of arrogance. These people legitimately thought that their poorly written, cheaply animated, and almost unfinished series would get the acclaim and success necessary to spawn more seasons. They really thought that audiences would care about their shoe-horned cliffhanger ending and what would happen to the characters.
HGS summary by Q::"It was a tale told by an idiot".
@@unknownbystander8145 Honestly, yeah. What’s worse is that there are small amounts of people that defend this show.
@@unknownbystander8145 at least idiots care about their projects. not sure what high guardian spice is, but it's more like a con man's show
"Our Story suck because short of budget "
Every. Single. Writer. From Indie group: ??????
HGS didn't fail because people hate diversity. Or else they'd be hating on Arcane too. You know, the show that boasts a diverse cast including two lesbians? The show that everyone is constantly singing their praises for? It turns out what people actually want are well written characters. Never once in Arcane did any character say "I'm gay," and then start monologing about what being gay means.
You know... The issue is that the cast of High Guardian Spice is not really diverse? The main cast is entirely female with one small exception being Snap (and even then according to voice of god he'd end up transitioning anyway because) filling stereotype after stereotype.
My Father said Arcane was bad; but He thinks Ghostbusters 2016 is good, so what does He know?
@@doolittlecraftsmann302 if he says Ghostbusters Afterlife is bad then he’s too far gone
@@doolittlecraftsmann302 I question your father's taste in media.
@@jessip8654 I tend to check out anything He claims is bad. I've yet to be disappointed.
So, I'm in school to be a concept artist illustrator, but this semester I'm taking an animated storytelling class. Literally the first class was about how to manage your time and budget because the audience will NOT care about what issues you have behind the scenes. They only care about the product you put out.
What were these creators thinking? This isn't an excuse!
We're no longer in the early 2010's, we're allowed to have standards for our representation. A show having lgbt+ characters won't instantly gain my approval just for being lgbt+.
High Guardian Spice had good intentions (excluding the overtly misandrist subtext here and there), but the show is genuinely mediocre. Period.
good man.
woman?
whatever; your opinion is the correct opinion.
Completely agree. The fact that he wants to push the blame on anti-SJWs on why the show did poorly, just shows that he and the writers didn't care enough about their representation. Considering that they hired a radfem/TERF aka "unalive all men" lady (that ideology is common in radfems), I'm not surprised that their trans representation is sexist at best, and actually transphobic at worse.
They need to remove the Doki-style warning. This is, at its best, a mediocre kid show with progressive ideology.
Not just mediocre. It's just bad. Compounded by the fact that money from Crunchyroll is funneled to this "anime" instead of real anime.
@@Juliebel177 It does have blood and violence. Granted, said violence clashes hard with the usual, vanilla scenes that makes HGS feel like a PG show at times, but it's still kinda there.
ahahaha nice try. someone could just have a notebook and pen and if their writing is good, its good. NICE TRY.
People need to be more willing to call out BS writing; like, you want me to like, and relate to these characters don't you?
@@doolittlecraftsmann302 I agree
Yeah, you can still have a good story with simple tools and find different ways to publish the story like posting it online. Writing is not as limited by tools as say music or art is and even music and art and still be beautiful when using limited tools. Good storytelling shouldn’t be limited by budgets
Shouldn't be tied to budget yes but I think time/deadline is also play an important part.
Budget my ass. That budget was probably used on the casts' own problems but not on the series
The part where Rae mentions that people were criticizing the show because of it's staff's diversity would have more bite if Kate Leth wasn't a part of it.
Glass houses, stones, etc.
and if your way of promoting the show talked about.... the show instead of the creatives.
@@otbaht When those segments were recorded, there was literally nothing but some concept art to show (which they did)...but clearly nothing else was even remotely expanded upon to talk about yet. Couldn't describe the world beyond it being magical, says the girls are going to a magical school to become Guardians...can't even quickly explain what that means to make us care. There was nothing else to do but make a trailer boasting about Elation Studio's establishment- now Crunchyroll Studio due to not being owned by Elation anymore- which is just ridiculous.
@@gtf234 maybe wait to show us a show when there is something to show? A novel idea there.
@@gtf234 They could have introduced us to the world/concept, maybe done a little animatic, sizzle reel, etc? Nah let's just talk about all the wamen on staff, and unintentionally group our trans man showrunner into the group... :P
@@otbaht That's what a trailer is supposed to do. They borkt the trailer, and threw up several dozen red flags besides. It's only sensible to come away from that travesty of a video skeptical of the end result from such an outfit.
The amount of high quality free fanfiction that exists is proof that poor budget doesn't mean crappy writing. I get animation and everything else but I doubt no money = no good story (I feel like I should edit to say, no money doesn't mean no good writing at all, less time to write sure but passion projects tend to have really great stories when they lack everything else. Maybe I just need to understand more or something idk)
Passion projects and animation productions don't usually work the same. With a passion project, even if you have no money, you have a lot of time to rework and polish, and there are usually fewer hands on deck, which means fewer competing visions. Deadlines in animation productions are usually pretty tight. More money gets you better writers who can write good stuff despite time constraints, but no money and no time means you usually have to make do with what you have. If what you have is the first draft of a half-baked script, then that's what you get. If you have competent storyboard artists and/or a good director, you can usually fix a mediocre script into something palatable, but in this case, everyone was inexperienced.
Yeah honestly I have serious problems believing this really was Raye's passion project because it feels so under-cooked. Like the only thing he ever did with it was having a very vague idea and never ever doing anything with it for all those years. But that doesn't feel like a passion project. It's just one of many random thoughts even someone like me who haven't write anything of value has on daily basis.
Feeling like I should edit it because I didn't notice @Kemi wrote before me.
Problem is this show or at least its premise was more often than not been called a passion project by Raye. Idea he had for a long time. I have troubles believing it though. Because if that was the case then Raye is creatively barren and only given chance due to filling the diversity check boxes. if literally everything you have for your "Idea I always wanted to realize" was "4 female friends attend the magic school" without anything solid on their character nuances or even relationship then there's something very wrong with that.
I 100% understand what you are saying. With passion projects, they normally have most of the story written. Also if Raye has been writing these characters for years, then he should know his characters. He should be able to have a good understanding of the characters even if the story writing is still in development. If the story is out of whack, fair if there’s a bad budget and time problems. But the characters should’ve been good. But these characters are trash! Some of them have some form of an arc or are quite likable like snapdragon and amaryllis. But the rest are just… meaningless.
Thing is, independent passion projects and studio projects don’t really have the same pipeline.
If you’re working independently, like a fanfic writer, you have all the time in the world! You aren’t beholden to anyone, all your deadlines are self imposed, and you don’t have an entire team of production people who’s job is dependent on you meeting your deadline. If you have writers block, you walk away from your fanfic for a few weeks or months and get back to it whenever you feel like it. You can take a 6 month hiatus to write and rewrite a single chapter if you wish.
You don’t get that luxury when your writing for a TV show. You have to meet your deadline no matter how tight it is. Sometimes that means you don’t have time to make the all revisions you need. You can’t step away for a few weeks if you have writers block. You could put in unpaid overtime, but you’d be screwing yourself over if you do. Studios are just gonna think they can keep getting away with insane deadlines and shoestring budgets.
True true. As a writer, I can say that like what @Kemi said, passion projects and ideas are different. Passion projects are projects done on the sidelines focusing on the building storyline, usually, there are 1 or 2 people in the writer's room and fewer conflicting views and they're quite well thought out. However, ideas are trains of thought that pop up outta nowhere that *can* evolve into passion projects... if there was enough ground to build on. If an idea doesn't tick off enough boxes in the writing workbook, it needs to get scrapped. Writing, despite being subjective, has objective elements that need to be followed regardless of whether or not you feel up to it. Checkboxes that HGS fails to tick, all because of the fact that it was an *idea* that didn't make the cut to be a passion project, much less a fully-fledged one.
HGS most definitely suffered from budget and time problems, but I think what doomed it was also the inexperience of the team. A large portion of the team had never worked on anything before this and it certainly shows. While a better budget and more time to polish everything would've helped, what would've actually made a difference is having at least a few more experienced people helping them bring the project to life. People who knew how to deal and work within terrible time constraints, be that on the writer's team, storyboard team, or production team.
I definitely get why Raye is reacting the way he is, and I don't even think he's intentionally straw-maning. He's definitely too focused on the most negative part of the people criticizing his show and getting tunnel vision, which is normal, but he needs to take a step back. This show means a lot to him, but it's still something he put out there so, of course, it's going to get shit on. People trash talk even good shows, that's just how it is. Trying to explain himself to them is useless. I do think it's good that he wanted to be honest about the production problems, but he should realize those aren't the only things to blame.
I'm glad you pointed out that there's quite a bit of blame to be put on Crunchyroll as well. Imo the entire first trailer was probably their idea and a ploy to get the cartoon crowd interested in the project so they could sucker them onto their platform. They probably figured anime fans would just ignore it and the cartoon crowd would flock to the show because it has diversity in it, which is honestly disrespectful to both crowds. (eyo sorry for the wall of text lmao)
Don't worry about long comments, I like them, I'm a longed winded person myself. I understand Raye's show, which is close to him, is being heavily criticized and also getting harassed just for being who they are. There's a lot of pressure from all angles, I'm sure people like me don't help the situation, but it's an interesting topic for me. I'm not sure how long they've been on the internet but it's just an unfortunate inclusion with the age of the internet. Taking this as a stepping stone towards the next project, is the best option in my mind. Humility is a strong tool.
@@trumann5975 Oh wow, I somehow completely missed your reply.
I get what you mean. People have been pretty harsh on them and not always in good faith, so it's no surprise that they're not taking it all too well. I hope they can manage to find some of the genuine criticism through all of it and learn from it all, but that's easier said than done as always. Bad experiences are always learning experiences, so I'm sure they've at least learned a few things from this whole ordeal.
Thanks for this comment. You’re one of the only people I’ve seen who is genuinely willing to empathize with the position of the creators of the show rather than just relentlessly looking for any way to get a dig at them. I understand people being upset about the creator’s comments or “virtue signaling” or whatever, but I hate the fact that this makes people so quick to essentialist their critiques. It’s not enough to say “the art is bad”- you have to say “you’re a bad person” as well.
@@hiyaitsiya1005 Hot take (from a trans dude): there's people who take one personality trait and make THAT their entire identity, and their creativity suffers for it because they project that into everything they do like a bunch of self-satisfying power fantasies.
Which might be fun and pleasant for them to write/draw/create in general, but it comes off as shallow and soapboxy to the general public because there isn't enough flexibility placed into the characters to appeal to people other than the creator and said creator's "in-group".
Raye's young, right? Because he gives off vibes I've seen thousands of times in young fiction authors, where they develop characters based on one trait that they like and want to see, and then never quite flesh them out into full depth and the characters end up feeling like author mouthpieces instead of, well, characters. Usually authors grow out of it so I'm hoping Raye does too, if he's serious about becoming a director and doing heavy worldbuild lifting.
(All these words to say that there IS some valid criticism to the "virtue signalling", quote unquote, in that his creations feel very soapboxy, and Raye doesn't have the chops to make the soapboxing seamless, not like the creator of Gundam and the anti-war message, or Miyazaki and his green aesops. So it just ends up unpleasant and preachy and the anvil isn't even dropped in the right spot.)
It's almost encouraging that some random person, without much for credidentials, had their unfledged idea from highschool get made into a series, but then it's discouraging because it only got made into a series for social-political brownie points. (Edit) it also drew resources away from more necessary means like funding translators or paying for licenses to anime that isn't on the service.
If anyone should be taking the blame, it’s Crunchyroll. They’re a billion dollar company who promoted this show before it was ready for social clout, but didn’t give it the budget or production time it needed.
Raye has said he's used these characters repeatedly for past projects as stated in some of the cartoon's promo material. If true, which I have little reason to doubt, then this is a passion project. The scripts and characters should have been more solid, but it was a mess.
The issues have very little to do with budget: it seems to be related more to lack of budget or a lack of care for the final product. As for the "they hate us because of our identities because they're bigots" attitude from the staff? I saw very, very few people (maybe less than 10 on UA-cam out of tens of thousands of comments) hate on the show because of their identity. I have seen lots of people predict the content of the show because of the way the identities of the people were used in the launch trailer, and it turns out they were right about that. I've also seems lot of people suspect that it would suck, and that the creators would use their identities as a shield from criticism. the "bigots" were right about that too, because they've seen all these things happen time and time again.
It's become a story we've seen all too often.
That's what baffles me ab9the claim that the budget was the reason for bad writing. Maybe that could explain the pacing issues somewhat, but what about the inconsistent characterization and worldbuilding? Shouldn't that have been sorted years ago?
That honestly just makes it worse. If people use old characters, they're usually well thought out and I would at most expect sub dialogue that people just wouldn't get because they didn't follow the writer from the get go. Or ill-fitting elements from AU stories.
The longer a character exists and the more often it's used the more complex or thought out it should be.
But hey at least I get to put a badge on my chest saying "I knew it" now.
Bottom line is that their entire writing team doofed up and now gave a bad name to similar writing team constellations because they used their identities as sales points. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"Care about the people behind it"
You mean the Korean studios that you outsource the animation to or writers who made the show uuhhh... the show?
I feel bad for the korean studio for wasting their time.
@@trumann5975 I really do hope they get paid enough at least
I'll be real, I don't like criticizing someone's "passion project" they put a lot of time and effort into. . .but High Guardian Spice is NOT in that realm. I do not see a project being worked on by people who actually care about a product or thought through what they were trying to put out. I don't even know what I'm seeing. I'm just dumbfounded that they want to blame having not enough money on why it's bad even from a writing perspective. I mean, I just don't believe the writers were pouring their heart and soul into this and then their excuse for not spending all the time in the world on it is because they weren't given enough money to care past a certain point. Like you said, they had how many writers and none of them seem to have been willing to put in a bit of overtime to make this happen? So, no, I don't believe they were even trying; and if they were, they, as amateurs bit off more than they could chew and the product suffered from it. They DID focus on diversity points instead of people who could actually make the best out of the idea, and the show suffered for it. That's a BEST case scenario right there. High Guardian Spice is a wash.
(Sorry for the long comment. I'm just thrown by the fact that they can't get over themselves enough to take a loss and move forward from this experience with a better idea of what to do with future projects.)
HGS isn't so much a "passion project" as much as it is a "vanity project". From how the debut trailers focused on nothing, but their gender identities; to how mind-meltingly generic the plot, setting, and visuals are; to the gratuitous and daresay propagandistic insertion of terrible LGBT-related messages; and now the refusal to accept any real criticism or personal fault.
Oscar Wilde once said that any painting drawn with feeling is a portrait of the artist, not the sitter. That it is not the subject who is revealed by the painter; it is rather the painter who, on the colored canvas, reveals himself. And what Rodriguez and the studio behind this show have revealed of themselves is not only how painfully mediocre they are, but how vain they are about.
Yknow I wasn't sure entirely on if I could believe this was a passion project, because Raye clearly loved these characters and was attached to hem if he used them this long, but the other staff I wasn't sure of until your great point that they couldn't care past a certain paycheck. They really should've focused on a few good credential writers rather than as many "diverse" writers as they can (diverse being a loose term here)
Good example of a passion project? Richard Williams The Thief & The Cobbler (specifically the original/Recobbled cut, not whatever the fuck Miramax butchered it into)
Passion projects shouldn't be exempt from criticism. I am saying that as someone who's been carrying a passion project for about 10 years, in increasingly non-nebulous forms, and only put out a rough ficlet trilogy as a sort of "trial run" for it a year ago. I THRIVE on people asking me questions about the setting, pointing out contradictions between bits of lore I winged out, and pointing where I'm doing big no-nos, even if sometimes I get cranky for an hour or two before getting over it.
(That said this isn't me handing anyone a carte blanche to be a vitriolic edgelord flamer from 2005 FFNet that just rips into everything. Most people don't react to "you suck ass diaf" by going "I'm gonna show you I'll become a GOOD writer and you'll LIKE what I write!", they react by fighting on twitter.)
@@neoqwerty THIS ^^^
I just want to make sure I put that diaclaimer up before I say anything "mean" because, "Don't you know how hard that person worked on that? How dare you discount all the time they put into it!" I mean I get it, I empathize as a creative, but we need to bare constructive criticism in mind even if it stings sometimes.
Anywho, in reference to what @Kat Poppy said, I honestly don't think Raye DID put that kind of time and effort into these specific characters. I believe they were maybe backburner characters/ideas that could be dredged up for something like this. From what I've seen Raye seems to have other projects lined up that are much important to him and High Guardian Spice was just a test run/filler before an actual passion project comes along. Raye didn't say anything about how hard folks worked, he focused on the money in his explanation and what does that say? If he had said something about how much he was working off time to try and make up for the lack of budget I might see things differently, you know?
And, yes, @Tess Fabled that's exactly the kind of example I'd use! There was so much production hell involved, so it didn't turn out how Williams planned; but no one who knows the story can deny how much he was working to make his masterpiece a reality. (High Gaurdian Spice is barely comparable really.)
My issue is this is just another case of people who didn't know what they were doing getting in over their head and instead of just taking the L, they are reaching for every possible excuse they can find. People had things they liked about this show. They should use this as a learning experience. But they won't. Because they are playing victim.
Yeah but their politics are right so any failings they have should be ignored.
Yep not to mention they forced their ideals about every straight cis male are bad and refused to acknowledge the fact that not all effeminate men and tomboy girls are part of queer or trans since they both can just be straight and cis themselves.
@@Untolddead which by that mindset only reeks of arrogance.
@@gaming1zanagi-1999. Mhm. Me myself Irl I wear nail polish and I sometimes I like too you know feel pretty. But I'm a cis straight male I have a girlfriend that I've been dating for 2 years now she loves to do my nails and I like doing hers. I don't like guys because I like to feel pretty I just do and watching this show made me cringe so hard I could feel my face scrunching lol
@@galaxyt4218 I see XD. But yeah I did used to use nail polish too before but yeah I tends to be more feminine due to not being more masculine and despised the idea of being masculine simply because I am a boy XD.
i still remember kemono friends' rise to fame when they almost have no budget and look how quickly it fell off the radar when the higher ups took over production of 2nd season.With more budget cuz season 1 became so popular.
Budget is no excuse for the absence of talent.
Work harder and try again.
Kemurikusa (tatsuki's next project after kemono friends s1) still is among my top animes of all time even if it's made with low budget (seriously some scene is literally just slideshow) solely because its story and character (and charming animation). Personally I think budget should be the first thing to considered in the beginning of any project, that way you can tailored the project around the budget to make a quality product
@@honeychi93 das true and look at inferno cop its literally moving jpeg with stock fire and explosion GIFs.
what i wanted to point out is that there are so many others before that were super intresting with ridiculusly low bugdet
you know what just to prove the point and my personal curiosity i hope anyone that reads this can comment a show they like that has very low production value
@@deathwisheslife Does an anime from the 70s count? Because if it does I'm gonna have to meme with Godmars and its amazing five animation frames per second and recycling SO MUCH of its animation that they even kept these five reused frames and the lens flare shine for the GAMES it's in.
The way Raye describes the show's shortcomings is suspiciously vague. It's all about "we didn't have the money" or "we didn't have the time" to fix the glaring holes in the script. They never go into detail about *what* those issues were. It's never "When we ran into issues concerning Sage's character conflict and how little things actually connected, we didn't have the resources to course-correct, we just had to keep going," it's consistently "Whatever issues we ran into, we didn't have the time to fix it." It reads to me like Raye has been forced to admit the show has its narrative foibles, but doesn't truly connect with how the show failed, or at the very least doesn't want to publicly admit that the story had problems.
I think a little honesty in how the team dealt with the characters and their conflicts would go a long way in showing that Raye really did care, and it killed him that he didn't have the manpower/resources to do the story he loved justice. But the way he went on in this thread makes it seem like he never came to terms with how the show ended up, and the High Guardian Spice he had in his head was not the High Guardian Spice that ended up on the screen.
The only two shortcomings that low budget could have produced are the animation and editing.
-Poor writing comes from hacks in the office.
-Wonky artstyle and proportions are due to lazy storyboarding and because someone couldn't be bothered to draw bread.
-poor voiceacting is due to poor direction.
-poor pacing comes from more hacks in the office.
-Poor OP/ED are because they added singing. They literally would be ok without it.
2:36 Nice backtrack. Wasn't meant to be compared to anime, yet actively invited people to compare it to anime. Actually, this makes it worse because this erases the excuse of "the writers probably thought bad animesubs are how anime are meant to be written". Also, basically admitting that they created their own failure by producing over budget.
4:07 Translated:"We suck at it and we wish we could have hired people who are actually good at it."
4:41 Ah yes. "The internet is at fault." What an original defence. Certainly wouldn't have helped to make an actually good trailer that advertises the product, instead of talking about the staff.
6:13 Yeah, who opened fire first? *obligatory whistle-sound* No really, what is this supposed to mean? Is this to throw the staff under the bus? Sympathy bait using the staff? I don't know, because this tweet is really bad at it either way.
6:49 Creator literally said the writers had no actual passion for it and only did any thinking on workhours and only when paid. Writing on that level is not like other work, it's purely using the conceptual part of the mind. It doesn't matter if a great idea comes to a writer's head while watching someone play Among us at 2AM, it can still be noted down. Yes, writing concrete dialogue works like any other job and would be affected by budget, but High Guardian Spice had many underlying issues that the best dialogue in the world couldn't have saved.
10:06 I like how "because trans" is even mentioned, because I never heared anyone reasonable say that in any context. I'll have to assume this is just a message of being mad that a certain character was heavily disliked.
This "hate campaign" is a perfectly reasonable response to customers that were promised their money was going to _real_ anime creators.
No one on the GS team deserved a paycheck. No empathy for *narcissists* that lecture the audience they claim to entertain. No empathy for those that damn all "cis" males. No empathy for those that waste an opportunity to create, rather making a bowl movement of their narrow minded world view on their pathetic lazy excuse of "art."
Small budget doesn’t equal bad storytelling this show was just a collection of ideas, there are examples of projects that had low budgets that successfully did well and had great writing. As someone who is getting there second volume of my graphic novel published this does teach me a lot.
Woah! Nice going on even getting a graphic novel published!
@@trumann5975 thanks it was inspired by anime series such as Gundam seed and Robotech/Macross and other giant robot series also by James Cameron’s Avatar.
13:42 That the show was getting "shat" on for years isn't true. Most videos came out at the beginning when that awful trailer dropped. Some months after that people forgot about it. Then it was released and people reacted and critiqued to it, what'd that person expect?
Well there was the time it was talked about briefly when it’s initial release date and no new info came out.
Even I forgot about it until I was seeing recommended videos of it.
Them saying the show got "roped into the culture war" is beyond disingenuous.
The show and it's advertising are literally overflowing with gratuitous ideological propaganda.
They were straight up building a culture war supersoldier and trying to deploy it directly to the front lines.
This is one of the absolute worst excuses to go with, especially when the show had many more issues than animation costs. It being Union or not should not matter either, cause that will not fix a show that from the ground up with bad story, writing and characters. What can be said, HGS was DOA since its announcement and how they greatly over-exaggerated their claims.
Yep plus on how bad they shows their supposedly representation. Like it felt like they know nothing of what diversity truly meant.
I dont understand why them not being in a union is supposed to be such an insane virtue, the creator proclaims it as an accomplishment?
Is there anything like really bad about animation/creator unions? If they had such a bad budget maybe they would need a union lmao
As a writer myself I understand how hard writing is. (I’m even a bisexual, feminist white woman in glasses so I’d fit the demographic of the writing team lol) However, HGS’s writing is shockingly horrible and I can’t excuse it due to low budget. This show was lacking the very basics of world building and character building. Character motivation even! All the main girls are pretty much non characters! The most egregious thing to me is that the whole premise of the show is that they are going to school to be guardians but they never even come close to defining what a guardian actually is. This is a basic writing fail. I am by no means an amazing or experienced writer but if they had given me the job I could’ve done so much better even with half the budget they had. Because I actually care about the craft of writing and I care about writing good female and LGBT+ characters. The writers were clearly bad at their jobs and just trying to push some hateful agenda which sets back the movement of feminism and LGBT rights by making all of the male characters evil, stupid or just one dimensional. It is really insulting and not helpful from a storytelling or social justice standpoint. Raye’s dreadful self insert character could have been an amazing opportunity to give good representation to a marginalized group (trans men) that doesn’t have a lot of representation in the media. The infamous “I’m transgender” scene almost seems like it was written by someone who just googled yesterday what it means to be transgender. My jaw dropped when I learned that pile of shit was written by an actual trans man! WTF? All the money in the world couldn’t have fixed that stupid writing unless they used the money to buy a new brain or some thing. There are so many better ways they could’ve revealed that Carraway was trans. He could’ve been a real and cool character. This show is a disgrace to the craft of writing and it reads like the first draft of stories I told in middle school. In fact, I could easily find some fanfiction that middle schoolers wrote for free that is a million times better than the writing of this professional show.
What makes it worse is that character is the creators SELF INSERT. I genuinely thought that it would be impossible to write bad representation of own sexuality/race/gender but it seems that Raye proved me wrong that day...
That part where he said they did the storyboard before getting a complete script threw me off. In my opinion that was an amateurish move. Actually never mind, amaetures know better. Idk what that was. Also bad/low budget does not mean horrible writing or less time to write. You can take that home and work on it at home if you’re passionate enough. Sorry for the mini rant
Most of their animation errors are almost certainly coming from bad storyboards too, like they didn't understand those are instruction manuals for the animators, and that it's not the latter's job to 'fix' errors in them. They for all intents and purposes told the animators to do things like lets the chairs in Caraway's office constantly rearrange themselves within the same scene, for Sage to sit flat and profiled on an angled desk like she's not in the same universe, that a foreground character is to move behind Caraway's lectern, that Aloe is completely unobscured in a high angled shot looking down on her, etc, etc. Low budget and deadline crunches don't afford for tons of redraws and the time it takes to acquire them, especially when they are outsourcing some of the animation to Korean studios; so it's even more important to do the storyboarding as right as possible the first time. And they clearly didn't understand this if he's trying to defend himself by saying they did boards before a script. And this is of course putting aside he's admitting he pitched this project with 0 foundation- no fundamentals already conceptualized to start writing with.
I met a man who worked for Michael Bay a few years back. He was a special effects animator. Once, Bay comes to the office with the start of a new project. He said: "these are the things that I want you to get started. We don't have a plot yet, but we can build around what you'll make." It kind of feels like this situation.
@@gtf234 My issue is (per my animation class in college) that storyboards are where most shows refine their writing -- before the boards are sent overseas to be animated. Look up the behind the scenes on Avatar: TLA ("two copper pieces") for an example.
@@acsound That aspect is absolutely true as well, just not a relevant detail to the point I was making. Yes a lot of the writing gets refined while boarding, but it's not a substitute for having a direction to begin with. Between all the animation errors and the aggressive incompleteness of the characters, world, etc- they seemed to fundamentally not understand anything about what storyboarding does. There were a few sample of their boards in some the trailers, compare them to the samples released for One Punch Man we'll see a very sharp difference.
@@gtf234 I can see you also watched Crown Prince’s video 😆
When you mentioned Kill La Kill I was just thinking "That show had a low budget?" but then it made sense when you mentioned it. A good show can hide its flaws easy, this many people complaining about the flaws of HGS show that the story wasn't good enough to mask all the flaws
Yes Kill La Kill wasn't a blockbuster bankroll, but you gotta remember that while Studio Trigger is a young upstart studio, it's founded by very seasoned veterans from Gainax and it poached a lot of Gainax's bigger talents like Yoh Yoshinari out from under them. From inception it wasn't a studio of rank amateurs who had no idea what they were doing like Elation Studio, now Crunchyroll Studio, was. A lot of the cheaper, shortcutted moments of Kill La Kill are blended into stylistic choices rather than overtly looking like time saving and cost cutting. Akiyuki Shinbo and his team over at Shaft did similar with their very liberal use of 'unmoving plaid' pulled in as their identifying visual style when it was normally recognized as a cheap looking shortcut
The whole "all female staff" killed it for me, there's a lot of really talented people that could use an opportunity to showcase their work but this thing of being inclusive just for being inclusive makes me think that they never looked for the right people for the project regardless of their background. And then if you get good people and notice "hey! A lot of them are women" then you let it be known and even then don't brag about it.
That fucking first trailer makes its like we should love it just because of the type of people making it.
I also hate their thing of making men assholes... No plz just no
Spot on with a poor craftsman blames his tools.
i checked their tumblr and they basically just had character art.
I at least make content with my original stuff instead of day dreaming about making stuff. heck my web novels half the length of the whole harry potter 7 book series.
Yea I couldn't find anything else besides concept art and character designs. There's was nothing to HGS at all.
I did drop by it and read a bit, I don't remember if I got your twitter. What was your @, that way I remember to give it a proper look.
im an avid reader, although i mostly only read translated korean/chinese/japanese lightnovels.
do drop the novels if you feel like having someone read it!
For a passion project it sure lacked a lot of fuckin passion.
How do you have an idea that supposedly has stayed with you and been refined since baby days and produce a show that has no plot, inconsistent characters, inconsistent world building and no direction? If two major studios reject your idea maybe you should go back to the drawing board and figure out wtf you did wrong.
Also I agree that HGS was a cluster fuck of ideas, it's clear they have a fuckin problem saying no cos it's obvious they took multiple tropes, ideas, genres and world lore concepts from shit they watched or read and just Frankensteined it all together even if it didn't work just because they liked it therefore it MUST work. I also think they are the kind of people that will write say a horror story and cos one character cracks a joke and two characters are a couple they would call it a horror dark comedy romance and try to write around the 3 genres and their tropes instead of picking the bigger overall genre and focusing on it.
HGS season 1 should have been a loose plot slice of life with the focus on the misadventures of our main cast with the rot plot only showing up at the very end because that way you have something for season 2 and you can use the first season to just set up the main cast, learn about the world in digestible chunks, hone your writing skills and prepare a more solid story and defined plot and you can start adding stakes and consequences where it makes sense the main cast is being harmed and shit cos they are no longer in school and they have to face the reality of being a guardian, your life to protect the lives of many.
Experience has taught me it's best to iron out the story of a series before you actually publish it, and sometimes, it's best to leave old school projects or comics in the past.
For example, it took a few drafts before J.K. Rowling published her first Harry Potter book. George Lucas clearly put a lot of thought into the Star Wars series and he wasn't always on the driver's seat for it. Heck, even when the Star Wars Prequels didn't end so well, (as far as I know) he didn't blame anyone for it and people can regard the Clone Wars series as him taking a second crack at the prequels, in a way.
Rodiguez, from one creator to another, as someone who's developing a series I'm passionate about, here's my advice to you. The next time you want to develop a series, you should think more about the overarching story, how the characters will fit into it and what the endgame goal is. And when you're developing a series and if it doesn't go well, you have to accept the criticism because it'll help you improve for the next time. If you can't take constructive criticism, then you're not an artist or a writer, full stop.
I agree, I had a comic idea back in middle school and tried making it a comic only to find out it didn't have a strong foundation. It was weak at best, trash at worst. HGS could've stood a better chance if Raye made something else and tackled HGS after garnering experience.
@@trumann5975 Aye, I'm in the same boat. I made a series back in High School not long after joining DeviantArt and even published it on DA. However, as I moved into college, I realised it wasn't that good and so I scrapped the whole thing.
However, I did take ideas I had in said series and modified them into my new series I made in my final major project because after FMP, I saw great potential in it and further developed it throughout 2020 & 2021 during the lockdowns, and I'm glad of that because it's helped me with story writing and get the idea of the endgame in my head. I've even got sequels and prequels in mind.
Aye. After all, Monty Oum had a clear vision for RWBY when starting out and they were clearly sticking to it. Only problem is after his passing, the whole thing went off the rails. A real shame. I'm honestly surprised they've managed to develop the ninth volume after the botched finale in the eighth volume.
yeah i mean they had plenty of time. its not like a web comic or novel (I'm writing a novel) where you put it out there as you create it and can't really edit it to much after. If you left a plot hole you gotta admit the mistake or adjust the story. And those are usually one person maybe 2 or 3 not a literal whole team.
@@otbaht Aye. The fact that these people did no such thing is just appalling. In fact, I had classmates like that back in college. The fact that there are adults like that in the world doing nothing but pin the blame on someone else is just a perfect example to what the world has come to.
These days, there are far too many narcissists and egotists both on social media and in the working industry that when they're judged and questioned, they just keep repeating the same mistakes and won't admit to their own faults.
And I don't think there's a bigger narcissist in that team than Kate Leth. Tumblr pilled my bum. If she has an attitude to blame someone as well loved as Stan Lee or say something as laughable or stupid as 'Kill All Men', then she shouldn't be in the working market.
The crazy thing is that me and my GF is making a video game and that has more of a story then HGS and we been working on the story from highschool and were in college now with no money so that means no money or less budget doesn't mean bad story
No offense intended toward you, but HGS as a goalpost is an incredibly low bar to clear- that you're even working on it at all means you've already done more than Raye did before pitching it. I've played eroge with more robust fantasy worlds and storytelling, and better fleshed out (pun not intended) characters than HGS
@@gtf234 ah thanks man and it's no offense at all it's our first game anyways we're really pulling all the stops so thanks again
@@drakofox1362 Good luck to you with that endeavor. The most you can get from HGS is a very pronounced example of what not to do
Good luck on your project! Hoping you make steady progress!
Alot of creatives created so much more with so much less.
yeah i mean look at fanfics and web novels/ web comics.
right? Look all over youtube for animation. there are pilot episodes of ideas for cartoons and show pitches that had literally no budget at all that were so much better than this, made with so many fewer resources available to them.
You don’t even need to go back too far. Look at early Hanna-Barbara and the Early Anime scene in the 70s, it wasn’t till the 80s when Anime started to branch out and become crazy good!
None of his arguments about money and deadline constraints explain why, if they are under those burdens, opt to waste the first 6 episodes doing nothing that contributes to building the world or the characters and running 3-4 b-plots in every episode that have no impact because they're artificial conflicts that just happen and resolve themselves in the span of minutes (ie just happening as a reason to put people on screen, like Parsley's incoherent conflict over working the smithy). Why only have the real villains show up in the finale? These choices are not born from money or deadline, it's his inexperience at showrunning, and their collective incompetence at writing- to not say "we don't have time to do these ideas" or "This doesn't contribute enough to the overall story, cut it" He's literally admitting, in this pathetic attempt to deflect fault, they started without even having a foundation, that's on him for pitching a project with nothing to start. It costs 0 dollerydoos to say "we focus on these points"
We've seen plenty of shows look decent on cheap budgets; the difference is they put their effort on the storyboards- most of the animation errors we picked on is not because Raye couldn't afford to animate better, it's because they were giving shitty storyboards to the animators. It's not the animation team's job to try to reinterpret the boards or correct them, especially if it's being outsourced (like the fight scenes almost certainly were)- they don't get paid enough to do that in any production regardless of budget Objects shuffling around the scene, characters not interacting them properly (ex Sage sits on a desk and appears completely profiled to the camera, but the desk itself is angled), warped perspectives and stretching- all things the animators are being told to do via the storyboards. Again a sign of inexperience, not understanding those things are instruction manuals for the scene and the flow of motion to the animators; they need to be clear and accurate, not rough summaries. Do it right the first time and you save far more time and money not needing tons of redraws
Evangelion had problems with the budjet and now is one of the most beloved animes.
All of Gainax's productions from that era ran out of money; they were kinda infamous for losing sponsors near the end and having to shortcut the finales. Not just Eva's congratulations, Gunbuster's finale heavily relying on grayscale and stills, and then there's KareKano's notoriously bad finale that was just voiceovers on top of the manga panels
I never seen a creator wasting their time arguing with fans on Twitter
i've seen it but ive never seen it turn out to be a good thing for the creator.
Your lucky I seen WAY TOO MANY creators arguing with fans on Twitter.
The Miraculous Ladybug guy lmao 😭
Thomas Astruc
@@JohnWilliams-wl9px I seen voice actors not creators
0:08 Woah did Knuckles actually say that in the show!? Because if so, that man is spitting facts!
he did
Sonic Boom is a bad game but a hilarious cartoon. The writing is incredibly sassy and has no reservations about ridiculing itself or Sonic fans. They even take a jab at Christian Chandler with a quip about a critical misstep in Tomatopotamous's game direction being changing the the color of his legs.
Oh my god that’s incredible!
@@wolfherojohnson2766 He gets a speeding ticket in a different episode and just groans to the others "...I'll try to fight it in court, but I don't think they're going to accept 'Gotta go fast' as a medical condition". Another features them fighting a internet monster who proclaims he will become a viral sensation, to with Amy exclaims "Like that cute sneezing panda?" and Sonic quips "Or all those weird pictures of me?"
Yeah the writers are shitposters and memelords, but even the gags that aren't dunking on Sonic and its bizarre fans are quite clever. Like a very dedicated shot of showing Knuckles can play the piano, the punchline being his Boom design has fingers when every other incarnation has big clown mittens.
@@gtf234 OH MY GOD I WOULD LOVE TO WATCH THAT!
What officially BROKE the HGS series for me was in the finale (yes there were lots of reasons before but hear me out this was the big one). The scene when Prof Carroway COMBINES new and old magic and Sage comments on it. He says something about them learning it later, but still, the whole time you can COMBINE them! That entire freaking plot point, the core of Sage's storyline, was useless the entire time! All of that, all the animation voice acting writing time, effort was pointless and wasted and all the money behind those scenes was wasted. No wonder this show bombed the mishandling is insane.
honestly, it could have been a legit good through line for the character. a girl character with foreshadowing to be a lesbian. she was raised with old magic (conservatism) but being exposed to new magic (liberalism) as a end all be all. she could have been a beautiful allegory for someone growing up into their own person, embracing new ideas while challenging old but then accepting both. using the new ideas while maintaining their traditional morals. but no, nuance is dead and so is challenging ideas.
It really shows how there was no concise direction for any concept in the show- Old/New Magic is a thinly veiled metaphor for alternative lifestyles and has no purpose to the setting beyond that; so of course they completely lose track of what they use this concept for. Insist that New is strictly superior because it's far more versatile, easier to use, and more accessible to anyone- we'd compare it to fast-casting tools in any other series with a properly developed magic system. They stress repeatedly in the class lectures that Old is entirely obsolete. But then go and say Sage is not at fault for killing a target they were supposed to capture, because New magic is suddenly unpredictable? Then say Old and New compliment each other and combine into something greater?
Not just that be we learn there are OTHER old magic students in the fucking school yet Sage was constantly rambling on about how she is the only old magic user, nobody understands her, nobody else has this problem yet according to the final episode there was a fucking SHIT LOAD of old magic users this whole damn time! It honestly felt like they realised Sage's character went fuckin nowhere so they shoe horned in 'oh no wait old magic might actually be kinda good or somethin?'
@@sethkeown5965 Don’t forget it sometimes how Old vs New Magic seems to be a metaphor for energy sources. Since it was hinted New Magic might be easy to use but it comes at a serious unseen cost. Hinted that the rot the evil source in this show is caused by New Magic use.
Why is Sage the only one who gets bullied when Amaryllis states that there are more old magic students too?
Low budget for bad story is such a bad excuse, one of the most famous anime "one-punchman" and "mob psycho 100" literally started with the authors chicken scratches, and now look where it is due to its very good story.
Ray said not to compare HGS to 'anime' in terms of budget, but isn't anime notorious for having low budgets? Dragonball reused frames in their fight animations, Sailormoon took up episode runtime with stock transformation sequences, and so many animes I can't count use still frames with maybe one or two animating elements. Is he trying to say all anime projects have studio Gibbly(sp?) money?
Nah bruh, animation studios always have budget issues. Be humble, file it under '"Lessons Learned" and get back in the saddle. #HTFU
JJBA staff didn't get paid for months after JJBA aired back in 2019, idk what that guy's talking about.
Dragonball literally became iconic because of its need to reuse assets. "Four episode screaming match before one episode punch up" is indelibly burned into the legacy of DBZ.
Just started watching your HGS videos after Dannphan's and honestly I'm so glad you talked about this. I'm an artist and writer too so hearing Raye's excuses for why the show was bad is honestly aggravating.
If this was your passion project then why didn't you put more effort into the story? I have several passion projects that I work on when the mood strikes and I would never ever let them get to the same place as HGS. My stories are precious to me and if HGS was precious to Raye, he should have done more for it before even thinking about pitching it to a studio.
P.S. I haven't played your game but your stuff looks pretty nice, please keep up the amazing work!
Thank you, thank you!
Raes words on why the show flopped I'd say are nothing but excuses. good writing is something that doesn't even need a single cent to make. I know people who have made amazing and gripping stories and shared them without asking for a dime, people who write for the passion of it. I became an amateur writer because of the stories i read and interactions I had with the authors of those stories. It's insulting to me that he'd even think to blame the shows awful writing on the budget because good writing, a truely good story like the greatest works of art, is something that is priceless to me and worth more than any bank can pay.
You can get away with poor animation and strong writing/character development, and it even sometimes works the other way around, but you can't have both and expect it to do anything *but* flop. And when Raye brings up that less budget means less time to write, wasn't this a storyboard driven show anyway? I doubt they even bothered to schedule themselves the time to write, because they thought they it would just magically all come together in the final product.
I have a feeling the writers were eating up time. If we assume they did 8 hour shifts, how did a team of writers get so little done.
@@trumann5975
It could be the other way around - having so many writers may have SLOWED production due to them having trouble agreeing on the direction to take the "story".(on top of being a potentially big money-sink; you have to pay all those writers after all.)
The inconsistent tone and character writing could be symptoms of a "too many cooks in the kitchen ruining the meal" situation. Of course, it could just be the general incompetence/inexperience of the writing room - seemingly none of them thought it important to answer "what is a guardian" or "why one would want to become a guardian", after all.
Didn't Ray Rodriguez say that HGS was a "passion project"? If that's the case then you should give your best regardless of the budget because this thing matters to you because you want to show off your best.
If there was any hate, it's when people found out that they were tricked into investing in a project that had nothing to do with the streaming of anime. And they are right to be angry, because they never paid for a subscription to have a western team make a cartoon network cartoon and call it anime. And if anyone attacked someone first, it's the HGS team who looked down on the customers and tried to "educate them" while reminding them that they're using stolen money to fund their lame project.
Actually HGS is completely free on Crunchyroll! It's an admission of defeat from the company itself because they knew it would be bad before even signing them up!
You're right I'll try to edit it out and if I can't, I'll add it to the pin comment.
@@trumann5975 I don't mean this as an angry comment against you, It's just funny that the most hyped thing Crunchyroll has done won't even have the minimum subscription amount.
@@skullkid2689
Nah you're good no offense taken! Sometimes I'm off the mark or just uniformed.
The one think I'm gonna say about Raye... Good for him to call out Crunchy Roll. Cause apparently Crunchy Roll not only doesn't seem to care enough to help anime studios in Japan with extra cash, they also underpay their own American animation studios to create original IPs. 😬 Who's in charge at Crunchy Roll cause it seems like they might be overpaying themselves while underpaying everyone else.
From other sources, Crunchyroll gave them the same amount of money most Japanese studios get, and you see the kind of stuff they can put out. While some issues can be blamed on funding, there is a lot more they could have done. Simplify the story, cut out wasteful scenes that can't be recycled (looking at you, trixies), limit the cast (swear to God, if you took out Parsley, no one would notice), don't pay top dollar for inferior talent like Kate "hashtag kill all men" Leth, work off the clock (because blaming your horrible writing on not having enough money is silly - maybe the writers shouldn't have spent work hours gossiping about Bridget or cooing over their fur babies and did more story development.
HGS team and creator went out of there way to have it call a anime, it was always referred to as a anime and the warning at the beginning of every episode implied it was a anime. NOBODY THOUGHT IT WAS A ANIME BUT THEM! And now that everybody ripped it a new one and call it a cartoon and childish, now they decided to back peddle and call it a cartoon.
When Raye says the reason why his writing is bad because of budget the first thought that came to my head was “So you need money to power your brain?”
Aight, thanks for the videos! This helped me how to NOT make a story
This reminds me of a conversation from an episode of the podcast Efap....
"Hey remember that episode of the Simpson's where Ned Flanders house got destroyed by a hurricane? The townspeople decide to rebuild it themselves but none of them were architects. So by the end they were so many problems that the house collapsed. Yes that house was built with good intentions but Ned's family cant live on good intentions. It didnt matter how much effort the creators put in their work if they dont know what they're doing"
That is Rey Rodriguez and high guardian spice summer up in one sentence. I mean I can think up several examples disproving what he's trying to say. Beastars, when it first came out, and its animation were wonky af. But the story...... I ain't a furry but I am completely invested in the story so much that the animation doesnt bother me at all anymore. In fact I think it makes it charming
Miss kobayashi's dragon maid has a paper thin plot (since its slice of life after all) yet the animation is so crisp and God tier that you completely forget that it's about a lesbian dragon living with a human lol
And so what I'm a spider so what........ they ran out of money towards the season finale and yet the fans crowd funded them so that they can finish the season. We wanted to know how it ended and by God we were gonna make it happen lol and honestly they probably blew most of the money in episode 12, which was an entire episode of nothing but kumoko fighting araba, an earth dragon nonstop and it was amazing
And as for Rey............ Stop blaming everything and everyone else except yourself. You aren't special just because you're trans or whatever. There are plenty of writers who are women in Japan who make awesome stories and these writers (both genders) write all kinds of characters including trans characters that are more interesting, funny, iconic and more human than you could possibly do. Dont feel ashamed but use that frustration to improve. If you aren't willing to admit defeat and try to do better, then you're not worth the effort to even insult. You are just an example on how NOT to make a show
6:02 I've noticed that creators who say "think about the production team's jobs" when their project fails are the very same ones who have no qualms with torching the jobs of thousands of people to get something they hate cancelled.
Low Budget does not have anything to do with the story. Like, I understand, however how come you never had the actual story itself done or conceptualized before you even pitched it. Take Steven universe for example, even with all its faults, the story and script itself was done years prior to the show actually ending. All respect to the people working on HGS, but it definitely felt like a bunch of friends in a room spitting balling ideas at each others.
It also has the problem of “We’re diverse look at us” but literally half the cast are either gay or trans, which is literally just the writing cast put into the show. Diversity doesn’t mean fill the cast up with what you want, it means fill the cast and world up with what you see. Again, Steven universe is not diverse because they have lesbians, they have sexualities of all kinds, different races, its because they and different personalities to make up the cast and the world.
Completely agree. HGS's biggest problem was how inexperienced everyone was. They might have been able to make something a little bit better with more time and budget, but unless they had people with experience on the team, it could never would've been anything that great either way.
@@mimigrimtales6775 making everyone LGBTQ has some issues because it means none of them get a chance to be fleshed out. Especially in just a 12 episode show. Snapdragon questioning his sexual identity alone is more than enough to fill 12 episodes, and beyond. But he's not fleshed out because the story wants to jam in these 16 other diverse folk and we have to give them all screentime so everyone knows how progressive we are and whoops the show's now a hot mess of flat characters and unfinished character arcs. Pick 1 or 2, and do them well.
They started the culturwar on HGS with their trailer and now complain about it. "We didn´t start this fire."
Although, being low budget is a good contribution of how one thing can be bad.
It can also be at fault of the overall team, yeah they were paid less but the executives were not the ones who made them.
The creators decided to go so complicated and burn a lot of budget. If they could try to manage their money better then they can atleast go better.
Raye said the budget was like that of a CN cartoon. But there were bangers put out on CN. Gumball? Adventure Time? Infinite Train?
To be fair, most animators in japan got paid little to no money, since they get paid by frame drawn. And if your frames are easy - cool. couple of hours and you're done. But what if it's something very complex - you'll need to draw for a lot of time, doing overwork for no additional rewards. It's mostly passion that drives those people. And crazy work culture of japan.
I highly doubt that anyone on the team was _that_ passionate about project. They may have had passion somewhere along the line, but it got drowned in whatever they were doing, instead of work.
On the Cartoon Network Budget thing, Anime budgets are actually SMALLER on average. As for the budget size affecting the writing, this is actually demonstrable BS. There are PLENTY of high budget films and shows that have terrible story, Black Widow, Batwoman, Steven Universe... And the problem is that Raye is moving on, without learning how to become BETTER, to improve. I'm an amateur writer, have been for decades, and I'm still trying to improve my craft.
Also, I gotta bust a myth. Crunchyroll money was NEVER, EVER going to help the Japanese Animation industry getting better pay, because to do so would require for the Japanese to restructure their entire business model. And given that Japan thinks us Westerners are at best retarded puppies who deserve head pats whenever we don't crap ourselves that day, it's not going to ever change.
Oh that's very interesting. Yea I don't fully believe Japanese studios would believe in western businesses. So thanks for informing me.
People: *hate on the writing*
Raye: "THE ANIMATION SUCKS BECAUSE OF THE BUDGET "
Well, if we go back to say the 1960s there was a show called The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle. The animation was done by Gamma Productions in Mexico while limited, and by today's standard crude which adds to its charm, it lasted for 5 seasons because of the writing, while topical and dated today, and the voice acting since you had veteran voice actors such as June Foray, Paul Frees and Daws Bulter and veteran character actors such as Hans Conried and Edward Everett Horton. Personally, I rather watch Rocky and Bullwinkle than High Guardian Spice.
And now here's something you'll really enjoy!
My parents made me watch their childhood cartoons including Rocky and Bullwinkle you mentioned, and it was great. The awful animation was Hanna Barbera having low budgets at the time but they really made it work well.
@@BAIGAMING And that's not to say the old Hanna-Barbera days weren't riddled with errors either- Scooby's had 3 or 4 radically different designs for his parents within the same episode sometimes. Products of unclear instructions and poor communication when the work is getting outsourced piecemeal to foreign animators.
I think we forgive those more because it was a comparatively more primitive era in equipment and technique for the medium 60 years ago- improved technology has advanced so much from the actual animating to just simply sending and receiving information or work from one team to the next all over the world.
@@gtf234 That is true no animation project is perfect... but where HGS fails is that at top you had people who knew so little of their craft that it showed in the final product. I remember Joe Ruby and Ken Spears started off working for Hanna-Barbera learning the trade until 1977 they struck out forming Ruby-Spears which gave us Thundarr the Barbarian, the Centurions (which was created by Jack Kirby and Gil Kane), Dragon's Lair and Alivn and the Chipmunks (80s reboot).
On side note even with a bigger budget the '86 Transformers' movie had its share of errors such as the scene of Starscream's coronation where Thundercracker and Skywarp can be seen despite that they were reformatted into Scourge and Cyclonus. The only perfect animation project I've seen, in my opinion, are Macross DYRL and Walt Disney's Sleeping Beauty.
The place where my sympathy went out the window was when he blamed the budget--because I've only casually talked to people in the industry, and. I was pretty much told, go into the pitch meeting with an idea of what your minimum budget is: what the absolute minimum you can make the show on. Don't accept any offers below that. (And, honestly, I suspect that the show had been shopped around to the places it'd have been a better fit before CR bit.)
EDIT: Actually, a slight criticism--that overview of the story? That shouldn't have been overtime. That's one of the things you should have done prior to the pitch meeting. When you're going "Give me money to make my show!" you need an idea of the story, an idea of the characters (so: not just drawings but quick character sheet descriptions), and a good estimate of your minimum budget. You can't have the last one without the overview of the story...but if your pitch doesn't include a nice, solid overview of the story, you shouldn't get even a used tissue, never mind whatever kind of budget CR gave them.
She
Then of course there was the Sonic the Hedgehog movie, when everyone ripped apart the original version of the model that they showed in the trailer, they heard our voices, the studio then provided additional finance for to redo Sonic to how he looks in the games.... people loved it, then showed up to watch it in the cinemas and went from a complete flop to a success! Raye is just giving excuses to deflect any blame from himself and their poor performance.
I love how they act like they're the victims of a "Culture War" against HGS and it's makers, when they were literally slapping in not-so-subtle jabs against Conservatives, traditionalists, CIS-people and men in general throughout the _entire production and airing of the show._
Thats like throwing a chair at someone while insulting them and then getting mad and playing victim when you get your ass kicked for it.
I do feel bad for the people who genuinely like it while acknowledging it's problems. Those people deserved better. The show had a lot of neat concepts that would have made a halfway decent show that, if done properly and with clean dialogue, could have salvaged a lot of it.
In truth it doesn’t matter how many budget constraints or lack of source material there is. As long as there’s passion then the project should at least be serviceable. Passion is what the audience latches onto, the creators had none. They wanted to do a show to vent their personal issues and live out their fantasies, that’s the show.
That is why the show failed, not because of any other reason. If this show was handled by people with passion then it would’ve had actual fans or people that stick by its side for other reasons besides “the message”.
I think that the job of the audience is, well to do their job, because like bojack said, life is a kick on the urethra, so after that people want to go home and forget about their urethra for a few hours. Besides if you go to your job without being prepared and just say "I didn't have time", they will most likely fire you.
How does budget effect the quality of writing? Last time I checked it costs nothing to open google docs.
The writers are probably wasting time on the clock.
Ah yes because i'm only a good writer when I have stacks.
Lack of talent, experience, planning, flexibility... Giving you MORE money wouldn't fix those issues, Ray. But nice try, I guess!
Nail on the head!
He’s making himself look bad by making excuses.
He’s should’ve just admitted to it being an amateur project, with a staff that had little to no experience, and took the L from his critics.
Yeah, there were most likely a bunch of reasons out of his control for why this project became mediocre, but trying to excuse/justify oneself is making it look like you don’t accept any faults.
HGS doesn’t even look bad. It’s no great, but there’s way worse when it comes to art direction or even storyboarding; no, it’s the narrative and character writing itself that’s bad. I could barely get invested with the main four, and the only characters who did grab my interest were the “bully characters” (another example of the “bad guys” having more layered and nuanced character, because the main leads are cookie-cutter positive models who literally can’t do no wrong).
With Raye Rodriguez' claim that the poor writing was due to budget, wouldn't Helluva Boss blast a hole in that argument given that it's independently made, and has far better story telling, animation, voice acting, sound design, and music?
It says a lot when a professional voice actor has enough faith in your independent project to voice one of the main characters.
I think there are instances where the identity of people you hire can and should matter - and the best example why is the cursed live action Mulan remake. If you want to write a story that is heavily rooted or inspired by culture, experiences etc. that aren't your own, and you need someone knowledgeable about niche stuff like historical clothing from x country from y period, or language, anything really, then giving job opportunities to people from a specific country or ethnic group, or a minority is going to be advantageous for everyone involved, *and* will organically promote diversity.
Now, hiring someone from whatever group just for the sake of it, without any quality control, and pretentiously excluding others? That doesn't sit right with me, and I'm as queer as they come.
I also don't really mind the cast of show being gay. As far as I'm concerned my own characters aren't straight until stated otherwise lol. From my own experience we really do travel in packs, so it doesn't even seem that unrealistic. But being queer, while it can be an important theme, it probably shouldn't be the only one, most of the time, unless it's specifically meant to be centered around it. My favourite books I've read so far where the ones where the characters were gay and it did have impact on the story (romance, struggles, character growth, homophobia etc.), but it wasn't the only thing the authors had had to offer and they didn't rely on it the whole time. You know, just allowing the characters to happen to be gay, but have strong identities outside of it and strong foundation to be multidimensional, and be badass, and be involved in interesting plots. Like actual human beings.
One thing I strongly disagree with is the statement that it wouldn't kill people working on the show to do overtime and crunch. Honestly, fuck that shit. As an animator, artist, especially someone still at the bottom of the ladder and you're just trying to get by and have enough to survive and get food, it's hard enough. If it isn't your show or your dream project and you get payed minimum wage and any overtime is free (bc your employer assumes 8 hours a day is enough for you to get your shit done, and if it isn't - that's on you and you ain't gonna see any money for working outside of your set hours), then in all honesty, why should you care? Especially with a show like this, where literally everything is all over the place and doomed to fail from the start? Not worth your health, man.
Valid points!
I should've elaborated more on the overtime. Since it's Raye's show, I thought at the very least they'd have a basic structure of a story and themes when pitching the show. What we got was a skeleton of a story strung together with loose ideas. Just like any artist needs to hone their craft Raye needed to do so before the production started or at the very least taken the time to flesh out their supposed idea they've had since early youth, which is already a red flag. A cartoon series with simple concepts shouldn't take months to write out basic outline and themes. The nuances can be ironed out in production. I'm more curious at what ate up the writer's time.
After doing research on the behind the scenes of Crunchyroll's production management, they had a lot against them. To be fair Raye should've declined the offer but a foot in the door doesn't come very often.
@@trumann5975 I'm glad I'm not the only one who got that impression...I totally get if Raye is the type of person who hyperfixates on characters and interpersonal relationships over complex magic systems (I can certainly relate), but you'd think that he would have defined core elements of the show before development started. Maybe he did develop stuff like what a Guardian does and old vs. new magic extensively and the writers he hired just butchered his concept with no time to go back and fix it...but that'd be on him for not vetting his writers properly. He wouldn't even have to sacrifice his "diverse" staff to do such a thing. Hell, he could have gathered an even more diverse crew which would've had the experience/competency to fully realize his vision! Idk how the hiring process was done so he could have just been working with what CrunchyRoll gave him without having much input on it, but even that doesn't excuse the show from criticism.
Another good example of a good show with initial animation complaints and issues is Black Clover. The first couple of episodes had questionable animated scenes (and even further than that), the story was a bit generic, sometimes compared to a low-budget Naruto by some critics. But even then, I still found myself watching it till the 100th episode and enjoying the characters and the plot. Even with not-so-good animation, Black Clover is proof that if you have an actually good story, and characters that make you want to root for them, then people will want to watch your show regardless of how bad or not it looks.
Some would argue that Black Clover already had a manga spanning years, hence it was easy to make a not-sucky-storyline, but that just shows what HGS lacked was planning, believable plot, and believable characters. Being 'woke' is not enough to garner an audience that would like your show.
In a nutshell, the show sucked because the writing sucked.
Also, Black Clover OPs slap hard.
I love Black Clover, the anime really did surpass their limits!
RAYE BLAMED THE BAD WRITING ON THE BUDGET?? EXCUSE ME??
As a writer and artist, I only charge $30 a page. I put my heart and soul into everything I do, so what Raye said is outright insulting.
What kind of writing do you do? And does that $30 include revisions and rewrites? It sounds like your severely undervaluing your work. $300 for a 10 page script is way too little, even without rewrites. Please please please pay yourself more.
To me it seems like the writers were eating up time instead of writing.
@@trumann5975 Fair point ☝️
A LOW BUDGET IS NOT A EXCUSE FOR BAD WRITING!
A lot of shows in their first season start with low budgets, so I'm calling BS on that, lack of time? Not an excuse either I'll give you the BEST EXAMPLE of a low budget and short time to do something that it still has a decent quality the Barbie movies, you know how much time usually they have to do those movies? 6 MONTHS, yes they cut conners, yes the animation can be a little bad, but the STORIES rarely are poorly written.
I gave a chance for High Guardian, it's amateur at best, it's not amazing or it's bad.
It's ok if it was a cartoon, but they should have listed like many experience people do- this is our budget, it's not much, so let's do something focused and simple, it can be basic, but like Ikarus, they flew way too high to the sun and now are blaming everything but themselves for the lack of professionalism.
They can have all the representation in the world, but they can't blame the budget for the bad story.
If I was making it I would have chosen just 2 characters to work with, one major and one side, like for example- Focus on Rosemary growth and Snapdragon's evolution from bully to ally, it's not that difficult.
And also use the money wisely- use it like many anime do, by the way, MORE MONEY to the action scenes and cutting corners on the others, even using stills and shot reverse shots when the characters are talking, but even so, they still do make mistakes of framing the characters in the wrong places.
Many webcomic artists don't have a budget when they start, but they do have the notion of knowing the beginning and the end, and they have to work around the middle(like anyone whose writing a story).
I don't believe Rai and the others wanted to create a bad show but it looks like they were surrounded by a lot of yes men and nobody wanted to question them, in fear they would use the “misogyny“ and the “trans“ cards(and I bet they would by the way).
I'm not a huge fan of the 2018 She-ra, but I do believe the show is good because Mattel over saw almost everything they were doing, yes they did complain, but having the owners of the characters saying yes and not to what they were doing with them made it a decent show, because if they didn't had this kind of supervision, believe me they would have made something closer to High Guardian Spice, and guess what, I bet the first season of She-Ra also had a very low budget, like Scrooge McDuck says -“Work smarter not harder“
nothing says "ambition" like "a human witch, a human fighter, an archer elf, and a dwarf blacksmith go to a magical boarding school but ALSO they swear!"
Yeah no, lost all sympathy points from me when he tried to deflect all criticism and blame it on someone else. Animation industry is a bitch, that's a fact, but a show can still be good despite low quality animation and budget. You ever hear anyone talking about the animation in She ra? No, cuz the animation wasn't what drew people to the show, it was the writing and characters. Good writing can survive subpar animation, but good animation can't save a bad show.
Sure, the writer got mad about paychecks lmaoo
I think personally, all in all, it's time Raye et al cut themselves a slice of humble pie and just say "Yes, the show didn't pan out, no matter the reason why, we can take something from this and we can work harder and (hopefully) smarter next time."
And remember the old fact that criticism of a product is not an attack on the creator.
I told Raye quite a few things wrong with the show through a story telling standpoint and how I empathize with the idea that pressure and stress can harm the writing process and the potential of a story.
He blocked me ten minutes later lol
Your error was saying that it could have been better. Nothing more from the message arrived on the other side.
You know how you get more budget? You make a good show with what you have then in season 2 you might get a higher budget... It's how it works for every show!
I am out here payed nothing, writing 5 seasons of a fantasy story with a complex world that can fit in a looot other stories, with like, actual diversity that makes sense, just because I enjoy what I am doing...
And I am passionate enough to animate few episodes all by myself, this stuff just, offends me so hard...
Why these people get ANY budget while I'm out here probably going to forever stay in the dark with my work never seing much audience, just because I am poor??
Wow
Just wow
As someone who watched the whole series, I can tell you right now the main issue was the writing. Bad world building riddled with contradictions, convoluted plot, and aggravating characters both main and minor. You can't blame the budget for bad writing.
Maybe it's because they have a whole writer room filled with at least three writers, all at the same level of authority.
@@ZenoDLC
Too many cooks spoil the broth
NGL I don't trust a damn thing Raye says about the budget besides possibly Crunchy Roll not being helpful in the slightest. There are people who make amazing piece with a beggar's budget and like 4 people. They usually have a good chunk of the story/world already laid out before even starting on an actual show part of it. Not being able to accept any fault when it was their idea... yeah no thanks. They don't want to create great work, they want people to just say their work is great.
Plus some Cartoon Network shows have amazing stories, saying that the reason it was atrocious was because of the western level budget.. is an absolutely terrible excuse.
lol one of my favorite one liners from dbz abridged.
They obviously didn’t care about their show. It was all about their “kill all men” agenda, never the story.
There are people who make their own better stories, animation, and art FOR FREE.
Budget does not make you a shitty writer, budget does not make your world less built. I could understand the animation being not so high quality but the story and characters don’t require money to make them fleshed out.
PrincessKitten really hit the nail on the head here- people who look to hate will hate, people who wish to criticize want their voices heard by the relevant people, making excuses will do nothing to the former and only discourage the latter
You know what is crazy? I did some research, and there were some people in the HGS team with alot of experience. To some it was their first job, but there are people with writing and artistic experience.
Amalia Levari and Audu Paden are two of the team with alot of experience in the animation industry, with awards fo back it up. So how did things got so bad??
I have a few theories:
- the writers are stuck in time and dont know how to make a different style of writing, compared to the way they wrote in 2015 (Amalia has a short made for CC in 2015, and is honestly so boring and fill with so much filler, that you can clearly see the same thing happening in HGS. Is like she is stuck in time and didn't learn new ways to write a plot)
- the writers have no experience writing for adults and older teens and could only make a story only little children, or those weird adults that can't see the difference between a real child and a drawing, could enjoy
- because they are mostly comic writers, and writing comics is way too different than writing a animated cartoon
And my last theory is that... Raye made the wrong decisions. He has no experience as a director/writer/artist, and made all the wrong decisions
So know it is up to us, if we choose to blame everyone in the staff, or just Raye.
Raye is a woman.
@@Nathan-rb3qp no he is not.
@@leavemealone802 She was born one.
Horimiya started off as a very crude-looking webcomic, called 'Hori-san to Miyamura-kun'. The art style was very, very amateurish, all the dialogue bubbles and letters were handwritten, there wasn't a single shred of professionalism to be seen. Yet the color pallet chosen by the author and the story were so pleasant, it got a lot of traction online at the time, Square Enix decided to pick it up and compile all the published chapters in volumes, it got a 6 episodes OVA, and years after, it would get a proper professional manga adaptation and an anime as well.
Seitokai Yakuindomo is another manga with a very crude or amateurish art style, though this one is a proper manga. Yet, once again, it got picked up to be made into an anime precisely because the writing was good.
You didn't get a huge budget to work with, therefore your cartoon didn't have good animation or character designs? Fine, we can all understand that part (even though there's a lot of room to debate there). But the writing is not entirely dependent on budget, in fact, the creator should be taking full responsibility for it and working his ass off to make the story be the best it can be! But Raye isn't even working on the last episode!?
I don't get paid anything to create my own characters and stories, but I still do. I put a lot of time and effort into my manga, and via the criticism I received from a lot of people on Mangadex, plus dedication on my part to go out of my way to seek improvement, my art got a lot better. As a result, I even remade Rosemary's character design to better fit an anime style akin to a mahou shoujo show. FOR FREE!
If I a random guy on the internet can do that, someone being PAID to do it should do it much better! HGS turned out to be crap, not because of budget or time constraints, but because the creator and staff themselves didn't care enough about the art, only about getting their names out in the public eye!
Raye’s comment about the staff/writers *only* doing their job during work hours, ie while they’re getting paid, is a big red flag for lack of passion on their part. This was just a simple job to them, so they didn’t put in the effort when they weren’t given enough time or money, and probably just submitted whatever first draft they finished.
If this was a *real* passion project, characters, arcs, and proper narrative should’ve already been conceived before production even began. This feels more like a ‘figuring it out along the way/during the process’ and more like fun/non-serious starter project. (I would’ve been more accepting if it was just a non-serious amateur cartoon, like “Haha! We know it’s not great, but we just did it for fun”, but all the defense from the creator speaks otherwise…)
Wasn't One Punch Man (something that's now an incredibly popular anime) a simple webcomic that was given more of a budget?
@@TuesdaysArt Yep. The story was made by someone who didn't quite have the talent to draw manga, but the story was so good, it caught the attention of publishers who were interested in making it into a full fledged series.
HGS got greenlit to be made into an animated series when the writers and animators hadn't proved themselves worthy of receiving any budget.
@@TuesdaysArt The mangaka for One Punch Man was indeed an amateur artist (early web OPM looked like elementary school drawings😆), but he had a good story and characters, so a lot of readers could look pass his art. His work became more popular when a professional manga artist, who was a fan, volunteered to redraw his original webcomic, which in turn inspired the anime.
Same for his other work, Mob Psycho 100.
When I first watched this show, what really impressed me was the sound mixing. I heard that the studio has fixed it since, but even in the first episode, volume would shift up and down at random. I can only think that if episode one was submitted as the final project of some animation class, it would get a failing grade because it couldn't even get sound mixing right. HGS was delayed for years, and still released with bad sound mixing.
About Rae's claim that people only hate the show because of identity politics, then why did the first trailer proudly declare "We have an all female writing team and a 50% female creative team"? If you don't want people to dislike a work for identity politics, why discuss identity politics on the first reveal? If you don't want someone to hit a target, why highlight the target for them?
If HGS and the High Guardian Herbs, because they're all named after herbs, not spices, has been something that Rae has been working on since high school and the show is a passion project for him, why make it if he knows it's going to be bad? If you were working on a passion project, something you want to ensure is as great as it can be, and you look at the budget and know it isn't enough, you look at the creative team and know they don't have the skill or experience, you look at the writers and know they don't have the talent, do you really look inward and say "Yes, this is the moment" or shelve the project until those problems are solved?
I heard this from another video, talking about the second part of Masters of the Universe: Revelation, that Kevin Feige was told not to look at negative reviews and negative feedback because "Those are just trolls. They only hate you because you're successful. Look at positive reviews instead, see how everyone loves you." If a writer, artist, musician, sculptor, or creative talent of any kind, and you never look at what people are saying you did wrong I don't see anyway for you to improve your craft. I'm trying to get a book published, and when I first started writing I was flooded with relief when a friend didn't just tell me my work was awful, but took the time to explain why every sentence of every paragraph of every idea was awful. I don't think Rae is ever going to experience that.
ive seen ppl do photo realism with crayola. sometimes it is just skills
Knuckles coming outta nowhere with a truth to the face~!
They did do something no one had seen before with 2D animation. They made something this bad.
Isn't it wonderful
So much content from this awful show.
(and our lord and savior slime boy)
Oh my god, I never saw that "No Man's Sky" tweet in the original thread, seriously that user was comparing an animated show with a videogame that can be patched up after release (despite this not being the ideal), where as with a tv show/anime/cartoon in order to fix the writting and animation issues you need to completely discard a lot of stuff and make the from zero... My god.
I still believe that we had bad writing bc of bad budget is a bad excuse bc they had 2/3 years time to write
I have a question for Raye, if you don't have enough money and resources why did you even start project on a such big scale? Wouldn't be better if HGS was just short OVA?
Rae Rodriguez is mad, because no 1 likes his self insert🙃
I definitely didn't like that character.
@@trumann5975 See, that's EXACTLY what I mean!
Can diversity stop being about a headcount of LGBT and people of color and more about the unique experiences of different humans? Good stories are stories that make you see it from a different perspective, whatever it is. I am so bored with shows boasting a generic story with bland token characters, and by the looks of it, so are millions of people who are watching shows like HGS.
You can make a low budget show and somehow make it good budget don't equal quality
exactly. I've seen people do great shows with just clips from video games for machinima and I assume that's not cheap but way cheaper than say a proper show thing.
Wait... the budget really shouldn't reflect in the writing, this guy/girl/etc tweeting makes it sound like they hired their writers as hourly employees. As someone who does arts work like writing and graphic design, I don't get paid hourly, I get paid by the job. Writers rarely get paid hourly unless they have a long history of being really good or have demonstrated high competence and professionalism during a previous commission job with you. That's why TV shows usually list the same head writer every episode and there is another different writer every episode; that head writer is creating an outline for the larger story and supervising another writer to flesh out a portion usually as an episode or season long commission.
A typical job for me begins with me asking the client a lot of questions to get an idea of the desired tone, relevant lore and dynamics. I ask when the deadline is and inform them that I'll make a certain number of free revisions, but if I turn in a draft 9 days ahead of the deadline and they wait until the day before the deadline to request changes, I'm not going to crunch 3 revisions the last 12 hours. I expect my client to be clear and reasonably prompt. If they get something not good, it's not because I ran out of hours to work - I work until I think it's good or what they want. It's bad because they failed to clearly communicate their expectations or provide me enough time to make revisions. You can't just throw more unproven hourly writers at a task and eventually get something good. It's mostly management and communication that determines if the writing works or not.