ER 32 Collet and 5C Collet Stop Test
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- This video is a follow up to my previous video where I showed intalling a 5C collet stop in an ER32 block. The various comments regarding the use of the stop in the ER32 collet prompted me to do some testing.....
I hope you enjoy and comments are welcome....
Great comments so far...
The ER collet moves into the collet block as it is tightened. Since the stop does not move with the collet, this setup puts some amount of force on the piece against the stop, and also the collet slides along the piece. The force and movement are small, but they are not zero.
That is what I was thinking.
@ 7:39 OK. The stop and the 5C collet move. When you release the collet, it moves out.😁 With the ER32 COLLET, the stop does not move. OK, it can not move, it is secured to the "hex/square block," secured to the chuck. IMMOVABLE. The job, can not., will not move as the collet tightens😮 Yes,the ER collet may move. Yes, for the infinite movers, I am not talking about making the earth move. Thing is, for repeatability, each job piece is as close as goddamn, any tenths don't give a shit. I made the ER stop, to enable excellent repeatability, knocking up over 200 pins for "KANT CLAMPS". Results...spot on.😮😮😮😮
Nice showing of repeatability. Your version of a stop for the ER block will come in handy in my shop. 😊
Great demo on how well the stops work Chuck!
Good to know and be reminded of this. Thanks Chuck
With the stop attached to the collet any variation in diameter will cause a change in location. With the stop attached to the fixture it, it has minimal opportunity to change. It doesn't move with the collet so he location of the stop as the collet is closed will not cause any variation.
I like your collet stop idea Chuck. Suggestion. On your ER wrench, cut off the hook on one side. So, you only have 3 instead of 4 stubs. Then use it as a typical hook spanner. Reduces the fighting getting that wrench on. I learned this from Double Boost's channel. Works great for my ER40 collets.
great idea
Nice demo.. The ER stop is fixed to the block, so it should hold if the stock varies in OD.
Most likely the 5C will vary if the stock OD varies since the stop is attached to the collet and the collet draw will be effected.
Enjoyed the demo 👍👍
Chuck, good interaction with your viewers. You read the comments and reacted with a follow up video. Can’t ask for more than that. Have a happy Sunday.
so I stand by my statement b4. At 603 in your previous video you said that the collet doesn't pull back.
Yes it does. That is without the qualifier of the stop. You didn't mention the stop, only that you don't understand why someone would say it pulls back when it doesn't. It absolutely pulls back, that's how it works.
Is your stop able to overcome the pull back forces? Yes for smooth metals. For some it is possible that it won't. The way the collet works, is it pulls material in until the jaws lock down hard. Clarity.
The 5C stop will move with varying diameters whereas the ER will repeat on a range of diameters.
Well the idea of a collet stop is meant to be used when you are doing a run of identical parts. Given that, I am not sure why you’d have varying diameters. All the various collet types have their pros and cons.
@@grntitan1 I think the ratio with a 5C is about 3:1. Where every unit difference on diameter is 3 units difference in the stop position.
Chuck,
Nice visual presentation and well explained. I might point out a possible flaw in this however. The ft lbs of pressure to tighten the respective collets needs to be equal each and every time the test comparison is made...ie: when tightening and measuring the 5C collet, it needs to be torqued down/in each and every time to the exact same torque setting......and the same goes for the ER32 collet........if the torque settings are not equal each and every time, the possibility exist that the collet is then NOT seated into the collet block itself equally.......
Benchrest shooters and World class precision gunsmiths with very rare exception, always TIGHTEN DOWN their lathe tailstocks to equal torque settings when cutting and reaming a chamber, thus ensuring ZERO shift of the tailstock during the various passes in producing such a precision chamber......the cutter/reamer might shift from its setting/zero indication, by 4/5/6/7 microns with unequal torque holding the tailstock locked....when cutting and reaming with such precision and demanding tolerances. one MUST ensure all is equal and not allowed to move...IE: equal torque settings........just saying....
Don
Agreed. This is why some ER collet wrenches have a square drive adapter for a torque wrench … to improve repeatability. There’s dedicated ER collet torque wrenches for this reason as well.
Splitting hairs
Thanks for sharing 👍
Well, almost. The ER32 is better in this situation because the stop is in integral part of the holder, not the collet. The stop itself remains in the same relative position to the indicator regardless if it is loose or tight. Not the same with the 5C collet. The stop moves in relationship to the indicator depending on how tight you close the chuck. The stop in a 5C collet is only really repeatable when used with a collet closer lever, provided the lever is of good quality, and it pulls the collet in the same distance each time.
A couple of comments if I may, I struggle to understand the whole concept. If you tighten a rigid fixture twice, it's supposed to measure the same, isn't it? I mean, for both cases you had applied, more or less the same force, so they were resting at the same position, it would be really surprising to see any differences!
On the 'pulling' issue: the difference in your two setups is that for the ER case the stop is on the fixture, and it will NOT move, whereas in the 5C case, it' moves with the collet. Like I said above, when testing with the same piece, no difference of course. For the 5C, if you use a piece slightly undersize in OD, the 5C collet will pull in more to grab it securely, pulling the stop along. So, even though the stop position hasn't changed w.r.t. the nose of the collet, the whole assembly now rests deeper in the spindle, so Z position has changed (and will show if you're facing to length). The ER setup you have there is 'dead length', the stop (and, subsequently) the nose of the part will always be at the same Z position.
Last, afaik, holding pieces with reduced engagement in an ER collet is not wise, you need at least half the length of the collet to be safe, I think even more than that actually.
BR,
Thanos
The whole length stop issue only really matters if the diameter of the stock to be held is slightly variable, which results in the collet having to go further or less into the holder to be able to grip. Gauge pins be their very nature should be, within reason, repeatable, any variation being from changes in tightening torque.
The length will change in relation to the diameter in C5 collets, because the wedge (collet) will not travel to the same point.
In an ER 32 (or 40,16 …) the length really doesn’t depend on the travel of the nut.
@@thigtsquare950 the length wiĺ not change in relationship with a 5C collet, but the collet will move in or out if the diameter held is not always the same. With an ER collet there is a technical issue using a stop in the collet holder, rather than being inside a 5C collet, because the stop will fight the volley movement to allow tightening. Either the stop will try to push the work through to collet as it is forced into the holder, or not tighten properly because the stop stops movement. How much of a problem this will be I cannot foretell.
The 5C will move. The ER will not.
Wretched spill chucker transmuted my worms, adjourn 😉
good video