Beyond 5/3/1 - Back to Wendler, Back to Progress
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- After taking some forced (but needed) time off due to travel, moving, and restarting the home gym, I'm back to training. With that, I'm going back to one of my all time favorite programs, 5/3/1 by Jim Wendler (focusing on the Beyond book). In this video I break down exactly how I'm setting it up and why. Hopefully this gives you some insight into this great program.
Get all Jim's books here: jimwendler.com/
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brandoncampbellfitness@gmail.com
#powerlifting #strength #531
![Ultimate System for Strength - [Wendler 5/3/1 Review]](/img/n.gif)
Beyond 5/3/1 is one of my fav programs I have ever ran.
Hey Nick, hope all is weel!
The variations of 531 are endless. Love this program will always go back to it. Simple and constant progression
agreed!
You're the reason I simplified training and switched to 531, awesome to see you're back!
That's awesome!
Awesome insight!
I am coming back from an injury so you’re getting me excited to start up again.
Great program to welcome you back!
Always did love Beyond 5/3/1, can’t wait to see training footage
Maybe I'll put up a few days this week.
Simple, easy to implement, easy to follow. Sometimes that's the best.
Yessir!
I started 5/3/1 because of one of your videos way back in the day. I’ve ran it off and on for a few years and I’ve always had success with it. My favorite strength program for sure!
That's awesome to hear!
Try Hepburn style training brah. 8 sets of 2 on the DL, OHP Mon-Thu, SQ, Bench Press, Tue-Fri . Add 1 rep to 1 set each session until you are doing 8 sets of 3. Then add 5lbs to the bar for upperbody, 10lbs. for lower body. When you stall on a movement for two sessions, skip the next scheduled session for it. If you are still stalled after that, change the rep scheme from 8x2--->8x3 to 4x1---->8x1 until you stall on that too. Alternate between them whenever you stall. Throw in 5 sets of 10 rows on Mon-Thur, and 5 sets of 10 bb curls Tue-Fri for accessory. Done.
Going to stick to this one!
I love 531 it’s always been my go to, when things stop working. Sadly I never had a lot of success when Ive given the programming a full run, but that is definitely due to the lack of training experience at the time, and always try to PR lol
Hah I've actually been trying to hold back on going balls out as I know it will wreck me.
Brandon Campbell Diamond Ya those AMRAPs can make or break you, especially when you take that caffeine abuse route lol
I've been doing 531 more on than off since 2015. I'm currently on my 8th consecutive cycle, and will likely have 2 or 3 left until I have to reset.
Nice!
Do you always do a full reset? Running it for the first time.
Instantly stalled on Dead Lifts after my 2nd Cycle (Wich is normal since it was so much stronger than my other lifts).
Would you only use 90% on the Deadlift now, or on every lift?
Been running Wendler for a while with lots of success. I watched all your videos years ago when you did it, glad to see you back on it!
Glad to hear!
You've summed up my love for wendler programming completly in the first min of the video.
ah great minds think alike!
I live Wendler's program. The simple diversity his programming. I've been using his variations for over two years now with tons of benefits. Long live Jim!
Awesome to hear!
Never thought of using the boring but big sets on an alternate movement pattern rather than pile on more to the lift of the day. The way your structured makes a lot of sense.
Glad to hear, not sure if I dug myself into too deep of a hole talking about it.
When I looked at your training I thought- damn, that does look like fun. I remember how big my back got when I was doing this. Some day I’ll probably come back to this. Great vid buddy!
That's the plan! Big ol back!
Brandon Campbell Diamond will go well with your big.......shoulders
I agree 100% with enjoying your training. I've ran numerous programs and I always progressed on the ones that I simply enjoyed more. Wendler 531 is definitely one of those. Looking forward to more training videos!
Awesome to hear, thank you!
No doubt about it, you’ll always make more progress doing something (reasonable) that you enjoy. Best of luck on the program, and I look forward to following along.
Thanks my dude!
Hi Brandon, which programs would you say are the most optimal for gaining strengh? Thanks in advance :)
Too many variables based off the individual!
I always end up back to 5/3/1. So simple. So effective. Then after 3 or 4 cycles I end up going back to hypertrophy based programs like the RP physique template.
A vicious cycle of program hopping
You paid 99 dollars for a spreadsheet?
Right on!
executioner smough lol. Those RP programmes are a joke. 99 dollars for essentially an upper lower split on a spreadsheet that tells you to add a set each week and work towards failure over a month.
Just like a diet, the best is the one you like to follow. I hired a powerlifting coach, had some great results but didn’t like it. Came back to 5-3-1 and every training is a challenge again. Love it !!!
awesome to hear!
I got my best results in strength running 5/3/1 too. BBB template lol love it
awesome to hear!
Good to see, remember discovering your channel ages ago when you were talking about Wendler many moons ago!
back to my roots!
Love 531 and the beyond book. Been doing it for about 12 cycles now. Best training I’ve done in a while. Turned my buddy on to it too.
awesome to hear!
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Sure thing!
In your opinion what IS the optimum program for adding strength? You mentioned that 5/3/1 wasn’t the best, and I’m curious as to what you think is. Great content, thank you!
Jay Clancy Bulgarian or Smolov are strength focused and a bit extreme.
There's no clear cut program as it's going to differ from person to person and what the goal is. But something that's built in with waves of training with a mix of rpe and percentage based work would likely be a good start.
The Rogue six shooter steel plates are sweet! I like your style
Like them a lot!
fucking amazing see a experienced lifter like Brandon use the SAME acessories sets I use! Happy to see where my instincts get me in.
Great minds think alike!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Wendler DOES suggest doing the same lift on the same day in his Forever book. The PPL at 25-50reps of assistance work add that extra volume.
Don't know TBH haven't read through that book yet
I did 5/3/1 for awhile and I progressed nicely on it, I have nothing bad to say about it except I would of preferred more benching ( as it is a weakness for me). I've been running NSuns CAP3 for about a year and half now and I absolutely love it, it's based on 5/3/1 and maybe that is part of why I enjoy it so much.
Yeah for most people I would suggest having bench on 3 of the 4 days, or add in a 5th day to hit bench again.
Hey Brandon. I've always had trouble with recovery.. You think 531 BBB would be good to run for gains even on a calorie deficit?
Gains and deficit don't go hand in hand unfortunately, so regardless of program I think you'd be lifting on borrowed time.
No matter what, I always return 5/3/1. It’s just the best system for my particular needs. 5/3/1 is the only thing Crossfit ever gave me that I benefitted from.
Good to hear!
Im new to lifting doing it about 6 months. Just doing linear progression. About to change my program. Do u think i should do 531 or stronglift 5x5??
5×5
I'd give a look to the free programs by TSA, Calgary Barbell, or Candito
I did 5x5 as a beginner, great volume, very easy to follow, great gains. It’s tough as hell because it’s 5x5 but that’s the fun. Once you have all your lifts perfected, and you start to stall on 5x5 because of all the reps, switch to 5,3,1. 5,3,1 has great gains and is so much fun, but it’s good to have great form on all your lifts before trying this. I also started a new guy at the gym Jan 2019, he did what I suggested and has just started his 5,3,1. He’s enjoying it and seeing great gains, he says the percentages are a pain though as you have to log all your lifts. For me, I love to log my lifts. Each to their own. Happy gains bro
I get this is a "Beyond 531" video, but you were also coming back. Have you seen the 863 version? And I forget if it's Beyond or Forever, but have you tried or considered 5's Pro for coming back? Wendler recommends that.
I have not seen that!
I really like 5/3/1
I do a variant which is 5 days a week (legs/push/pull/rest/lower/upper/rest). The 5th day is 5/3/1 Pendlay Rows with 5lb increments. I do like it so far! On cycle 4 or 5 now.
awesome! I'd love to train more often, but schedule just makes it tough!
I've always had lots of love for 531. When you're ready for a program change you gotta check out Swede Burns' 5thSet and 5thSet Evolutions. It's simply amazing.
Hmm haven't heard of that one.
@@BasementBrandon It's definitely worth checking out. If you like 531, you'll love 5thSet. Thanks for all the content you put out :)
You were running Wendler 5/3/1 when I first started watching your channel all those years ago! Solid program! How often do you hit calves? Just kidding, you always have great content!
all day every day!
Hahaha!
“Bottom line I’ve really enjoyed training” was one of my key takeaways for various reasons. I typically don’t like programming videos...mostly because other content providers don’t do them well...I did enjoy yours and would be interested in the leader/anchor templates he presents in “forever” ...
Appreciate it man.
Nice stuff here, thanks for the video! Just started my own 531 variation with jokers and first set last stuff.
Nice!!
Did you have any problems with back recovery? Wouldn’t traing back 2 days in a row twice a week cause lack of progress on these exercises?
Nope, no issue!
Brandon would you recommend waiting till the end of the 6 week cycle to increase your max by the incremental of 5 or 10 lbs, or do you think increasing after the 3 weeks is more efficiant?
I would wait. It'd be easy to do initially, but if you continue to do that every 3 weeks it'll be almost impossible to maintain that after a few cycles.
Beyond is simply the best program; so simple yet so effective
It's been fun running it again!
Welcome Back!
Time to get to work!
great video and perfect timing! I cycled 531 for a couple of years and last year decided to try a few other things like GVT, but I'm not making gains or developing the condition I want, so I'm going back to 531 this week and this video was a perfect kickstart for me! 531 is by far the easiest and best program to use. Only question I have for you is in regards to your back exercise work. What is the set/rep scheme you are using for that?
I've been trying to do 5x10-12 depending on the exercise b/c I just want a lot of volume, but on my bench/ohp days I superset in every set (including warm ups) with weighted chins or pullups.
Thank you!
Are you supposed to do first set last and the boring but big 5x10 or just one or the other.? I want to run 5/3/1 but don’t want to do it wrong
You don't have to do either!
Which book do you recommend for general strenght and size?
Of his? Beyond or Forever. There's enough context included of the basic 531
I use the 5/3/1 template tool found on Black Iron Beast. There's so many possible variations I will never stop using it
Yeah tons of variety!
Watching this is not doing my compulsive program hopping any good! Nice simple layout of the program though. I’d recommend reading 531 forever if you like Jim’s work. Was wondering what percentage and reps do you do for your deload?
Eventually plan to get to Forever, but never really tried all the stuff in Beyond. Will prob start to adapt when needed. for my deload I based it off deload 2 in the beyond book. basically dropped it to 3x5 at 50, 60, and 70 percent
Which Rogue bench do you have? From the looks of the video at 14:25, it looks like it attaches to your power rack.
It's not connected to the rack, its a rouge adjustable bench, not sure which one. I think Brandon would say if you want a adjustable bench then the one he has is good, but if you want a flat bench go with the rep fitness one fb-5000. Sorry do don't know the name of the rouge one. The rep fitness one has a sort of fat pad.
I say this because the same question was asked on his Instagram post the other day. 👍,
I bet theres a video review of the bench on his channel if you look.
Your sincerely,
Ross
(P.A. for Mr. B. Campbell Diamond)
Hah damn it you're taking over my job. But agree, I have the Rogue Adjustable 2.0 (review video on the channel), which is a great adjustable, but extremely expensive. For just a flat bench the Rep FB-5000 is hard to beat (also a video review available on the channel).
Started running 5/3/1 for the first time a few months ago. Good consistent progress. Even kept doing it when I transitioned into a cut phase which i wasn't sure about but decided to go for it anyway and I still made progress though that could in part be due to just consistent frequency of doing the lifts. I just had to cut down on the accessory volume and I don't do any of the first set last type stuff since I'm near death after the main sets. I'll be transitioning back into a bulk in a few weeks and I can't wait to see what kind of progress I can make. Especially throwing the extra volume back in.
awesome to hear, get after it!!
how much accessory work are you doing? like a couple exercises a week?
jelloshaha I go over it in the video!
riley reid profile pic 😆😆😆
Question about your rack, is it tall enough to OHP in the rack? I am not sure how tall you are, but I am 6'0 and I am not sure how tall my rack should be to OHP inside.
I am 6'3". It might be able to be done, but it will be close (depends on grip width).
How are you running (or should you run) the back and arms/trap exercises? Are you doing 5x10? 3x10?
Really up to you and your preferences, for back work I like to do more volume
@@BasementBrandon Thank you
Actually I think you should rectify the part where you say that Wendler likes alternate days. Wendler suggests doing everything the same day. For lower percentages, he says do whatever you want. For a higher percentage ( Forever BBB and FSL BBB), he specifically says to not do the alternate method (he didn't provide an explanation though). This was actually very confusing for me, but all I know is that he doesn't like it with higher percentages ( even though research tend to suggest that more practice with the lift throughout the week= more strength even with the same volume)
Haven't read forever yet, but If you're running everything the same day, that's bad programming IMO.
I don't blame you for not liking the Jugg AI stuff...I'm kinda late novice, my lifts (for reps) are 265 squat, 220 bench and 330 deadlift. Wanted to run something after my novice phase but before doing BBB so I got Powerbuilding AI and...ick. They had me doing like 60% work, doing high bar instead of low bar, and deloading on the 4th week.
No thanks.
Def has it's place, just not what I was looking for!
I’ve considered buying one of Wendler’s books, but I never know which one.
Does Beyond cover everything from the original? Does Forever cover everything in Beyond?
Spec7re82 i would say in the words of buzz lightyear, to infinity....and beyond!
Have not read forever personally, but beyond covers a lot.
Great video but one thing... I thought the third week of each cycle is 5/3/1+, not 1 rep every set...
It is, but after the 1+ you can do jokers, which is new to the Beyond program
I really enjoy 531. I recently introduced my version of FSL to it, where I try to address the volume concerns. I do 3 sets of 5 at approximately 75 % of my 1 RM, lets see how long I can sustain that.
Right on!
I like Wendler and really like the way he looks at training. The idea of having a "Main" lift (S/B/D/P) a "Supplemental" lift (close variations, or even just more of the comp exercises), and the the "assistance" work. It makes it really easy to prioritize training when you look at it that way.
I think it's a great program for athletes with other things going on though because it manages fatigue really well. However, that's not me, so there are a couple reasons I don't run 5/3/1 anymore. Certain templates mitigate these issues a little, but none of them truly correct for them.
1. Relative intensity is too low. Wendler has really hounded people to drop to 85% training maxes in Forever, which means you're just never handling weights at higher relative intensities. You can still get strong this way, but in my position as an early intermediate, I really need to just lift heavier weights. It's a great idea to look at your main lift like it's a strength block and program it in the 75-90% range (of true 1rm), then do lots of supplemental and assistance work in the hypertrophy range for growth. Alas, that's not what Wendler recommends.
2. Identical volume and frequency for all 4 big lifts. This is just dumb. Pressing really needs more frequency and volume, squat in the middle, and deadlift volume should be lower because it's hard to recover from. There are some full body templates that increase frequency but the volume stays the same across the lifts.
3. The training max just seems dumb to me. Why not just write a program with lower percentages instead of a percentage of a percentage. I think this is just an ego mitigation tool honestly.
I would think point 1 would be satisfied by the joker sets no? For point 2, I think it would be easy to set it up so pressing is more frequent. Would be super simple to add in benching 4x/week if needed. For point 3, I've always found a training max to be superior. Basically a way to do sub-max.
Are you using an app to track everything?
I track all my training on Fitocracy but I don't really have a spreadsheet for 531 outside of what my main working sets are for the 531 parts.
BBB looks interesting to me, but Isn't 5x10 at 40 and 50 percent pretty useless? That, for me, isn't even RPE 1 and I can't motivate myself to do those sets when they are so easy. Could you also start at 60-65 percent and go from there?
Yep!
@@BasementBrandon do you have any experience with the 3 month challenge?
@@Summerbrah Never gave it a go!
5/3/1 is an excellent program because it’s simple and easy to follow. Oh yeah, and it friggin works.
Yessir!
Would u say this is a good program if your looking to "Powerbuild?"
In other words, would adding several Hypertrophy "accessory" sets for various Upper/Lower muscle groups inhibit strength progression on this program? Goal being, adding both size and strength simultaneously.
It could be if set up correctly.
It's boring but big. Highly recommend 531 Forever.
I've just accepted I'll never remember!
Brandon Campbell Diamond I would consider myself a late-novice. Should I just focus on the 4 lifts with BBB if I just want to build my strength?
@@PHNTR google 5/3/1 for beginners, excellent place to start if you're coming from a novice program, and really easy to transition into other 5/3/1 programs
Wait, I thought you were doing your own programming? Ever since Travis mentioned he was running your program I have been anxious for you to finally release it!
It's hard to program for myself b/c I tend to fall into the same routines. It's why top level powerlifters always hire coaches, even if they're great at programming!
@@BasementBrandon I totally understand. Will you still be releasing your training program?
Jordan been sending it out, just email me and let me know if you want it in pounds or kilos
It’ll be interesting to see the progress made as you’ve got a decent “training age” at this point. I may have missed the exact timeframe you last completed this program but will be tuning in.
Thanks! Yeah will be interested to see myself!
Squatting after deadlifting is fine? I was going to do this but wasn't sure.
Yes.
This program looks solid. Do you have a spreadsheet for it?
There are a lot online you can find w/Google
I chose this one since it includes accessories: violentzen.com/training/strength-training/jim-wendler-5-3-1-workout-spreadsheet-workout-info/ .
I’ve read the 5/3/1 second edition and totally agree with the summary: he’s raw and opinionated but not prescriptive. That has pros and cons. I am never going to pay for a coach because I am not competing; so, you can’t have a template that works perfectly for anyone if you try to make it too specific.
I think I just miss the volume. I get it; I probably did a bunch of junk volume, but I feel like I miss volume even on BBB. I was unaware of FSL; so, it looks like that is giving you more big lift volume than the three warmup sets and three working sets.
Would you recommend the Beyond or Forever books given your later video indicated you were stopping after 12 weeks?
I would as it adds a ton of variations and ways to run the program.
I enjoy the simplicity of 531.
same, but you can def make it complicated if need be!
@@BasementBrandon Yeah. Wendler sure does that in his Beyond 531, and 531 Forever books.
Do you use % for variations of the main lifts?
You mean for my deadlift variation?
@@BasementBrandon yep.
When you’re saying 531 is not the most optimal, which ones do you think could be the most optimal program?
I think it's too hard to just pin point one program as it depends on the individual, but I do feel like 531 doesn't have the same benefit for intermediate and advanced lifters.
@@BasementBrandon ok thank you :)
Have you ever checked out the nSuns routine? It’s essentially 5/3/1 and Sheiko mixed together. I think you might enjoy it.
Haven't looked into it!
It’s pretty rad, basically every week is a 5/3/1 week with the possibility to increase your TM weekly. It was made up by a Reddit user and it’s free. Here’s an example of my current routine
imgur.com/a/WZUmVMI
I knew you were a smart dude when you mentioned the monetary value of buying the book. Anyone who isn't willing to spend $30 for an infinite piece of knowledge will never become who they want to be. But it is human nature but we have to be smarter than that. Appreciate the video.
Thanks dude!
Hey Brandon, can you please summarize the list of 5/3/1/programs one should start with and proceed in order
I'd prob buy one of the newer books as they've been refined, but I'd suggest starting basic before jumping into all the specialized assistance programs.
Thanks Brandon, since my lifts are light (100 kg deadlift, 40 kg OHP and 70 kg bench) so which template will be best suited for me, since I am 40 year old, so training each body part once a week is sufficient for strength gains
5/3/1 for beginners
5/3/1 boring but big
Beyond 5/3/1 joker set
beyond 5/3/1 version 1.1
What sort of exercises you doing for traps?
Mostly behind the back barbell shrugs.
Brandon what do your arms measure? Are they 15 inches?
17 or so
@@BasementBrandon Incredible! Brandon please advise, I've been doing Candito's 6 week program but I like the look of beyond 531, do you think its a good switch? I'm more so an intermediate lifter. my maxes are 360 squat, 275 bench and 420 deadlift. My goals are 420 squat, 320 bench and 480 deadlift.
Think it just depends on what you're going for. I think Candito is more structured overall
I’m excited when you run 531 again someday
lol
Very helpful. Thankyou.
no problem.
I did Beyond 5/3/1 for a couple months, was awesome! What do you go to after running your cycle to change the stimulus?
Mostly everything outside of the main 531 exercise! But you can even change the way this is approached.
I know you are a seasoned 'lifter' and can do whatever you feel works for you etc, but does wendler not recommend against doing fsl and bbb. he always states to do one or the other? Could be plugging the wrong info to beginners here.
Beginners shouldn't be doing 531 IMO anyways.
Brandon Campbell Diamond Sorry, I did mean people beginning the programme not beginner lifters. But I suppose what your getting at is if you’re starting this program then you should have a base level knowledge and be able to decide what works for the individual. 👍🏼
Do you use a specific app to track your 5/3/1 workouts?
I don't!
@@BasementBrandon What do you use to track then?
@@RobertGaron I have used the Fitocracy app the past few years, so I log all my training in there. The 531 program is pretty linear so the main thing I write down in the app (and on a whiteboard in my gym) are my + day results. I'll show this when I do a 12 week program review in the next few weeks.
@@BasementBrandon Awesome thanks! I appreciate you conceptually going over everything. I understand your process, but it might also be advantageous to breakdown exactly with the program looks like each week throughout the cycle so that people can see a 30,000 ft overview.
Will you stay on 5/3/1 forever or until you get to your old numbers?
Too hard to commit to forever!
Been running the new Average to Savage 2.0. It really like it.
Nice!
Wow this looks simple the way u lay it out but I see there's alot of customization. U should share this in a spreadsheet sheet. I like to run it for a couple weeks. I like the simplicity of it.
I think spreadsheets can be tough as they steer people away from reading/buying the book. That being said, there are a few out there that let you pick and choose your variations and it spits out a routine. Black Iron Beast is one of the more popular, give it a look!
@@BasementBrandon yea i agree. I bought an read the first 531 he brought out and ran it for a while
Any reason why you stopped working with likes of TSA etc where you seemed to do okay?
Bryce and TSA was (and is) great! However coaching isn't cheap. Spent over $3,000 in my 2+ years working with them.
@@BasementBrandon Aren't you balling with all that UA-cam and consulting money?
Im gonna do this program starting next week
Watched Scot Mendelson- a lot of leg drive!:)
nice!
What happened with your juggernaut block?
Dk K I literally talk about it in the first minute 😂
Smaller day by day? Jokes aside, good to see you back on track! Try to be consistent now Brandon!:)
Hah consistency is one thing that I can do!
Wasn´t referring to buying gym equipment on a regular basis!:D
What shoes are you deadlifting in?
The red ones? Those are from Iron Tanks, they're mean for bodybuilding I believe, but are similar to wrestling shoes
Why not Dan's program again? As far as I remember you had the best results there.
Wasn't sustainable and led me to get hurt. I actually have seen the best progress on TSA coaching!
I remember doing DoggCrapp training like 12 years ago lol, wasn’t it more for a bodybuilding approach I can’t remember?
Eh somewhat. lots of training to failure with little rest times before doing more work.
I was skeptical at first- then I tried it and gave me results quicker than anything. It was just really intense so I never went back to it lol
Hi how do you set up a work out using 531
The book goes through it all in great detail. There are also some sites/calculators/apps that will do it for you.
slowly buying stuff for my own weight room. cant wait to get enough stuff to be able to do a program.
awesome!
I added 30kg in 7 weeks with 531,fsl and jokers 190kg-220kg on squat
awesome!
The 1st set last pauses on bench and squat work great for powerlifting
Well raw powerlifting anyway
Hmm haven't put those in... yet.
What are you doing for your deload week?
I did 3x5 of the main movement at 50-60-70%, then a 3x10 for the BBB assistance. If I felt like it I threw in some back or arm work as well, but nothing serious.
What's your rest inbetween sets?
Varies on the lift and how heavy it is, but in most cases 2-3 min.
brandon you still have your natty card?
Last time I checked.
Is everyday Leg day?
John Legler duh
Should be!
I never made any good progress running any of 5/3/1’s variations. I think what Wendler has provided the community is invaluable and gotten a lot of people lifting. However, my entire outlook and progress changes after running the Barbell Medicine templates. It would be interesting to see you run one of them and get your thoughts. Something like their 12 week strength(powerlifting prep) for your next meet or something. Just a thought. Great video! Looking forward to the plate video! 👍🏻
Is that the one for sale for $50? Is there variety to how it's set up, or is it just a template?
Yes. There is variety. The structure of the program should be run as is and the main comp lifts (squat,bench,dead) should be altered but all the secondary and accessory movements you choices based on equipments availability and variety. I’ve run the 4 day a week one (4 weight training days/2 GPP days) and had good results.