4 things that helped me the most: 1) Learning to read like a writer 2) Learning how to edit what I wrote 3) Learning how to give feedback/critique. I learned a lot about what not to do and what works while helping others with their manuscripts. Moreso that having people read my stuff. 4) learning to write a scenes rather than writing stories
Louis L'Amour completed 105 original works by putting words on paper in the morning and rewriting the previous day's new material in the afternoon. This approach does work, at least for some. Ultimately, you have nothing to rewrite when you get nothing down on paper.
Yeah you really should get words down when you can. Don’t think of your story as poo cause it sounds off rhythm or is missing something/needing polish. That’s why revising exists lol
This guy is obviously just trying to sell you a course. Outlining, writing, revision, reading books and free advice resources WILL and DO work for most people. Chances are, they'll work for you too.
Yeah -- not to mention that practice is implicit in the advice "write a lot." Like I don't see how you can't practice by writing whole stories that you really care about -- if they turn out bad, you can always rewrite them. Like OF COURSE you need drafts and iterations of the same story. OF COURSE you need to edit and revise. You don't need a course to do those things. Not to mention, he says writers' groups don't work, and then he says "get feedback" ... is the feedback you get from writers' groups not feedback?
The bottom line is that writing is personal. Everyone is so different. What no one tells you is this - find your own motivation. Find your own voice. Find what works for you! Plot is out.. ok.. discovery write ok…. They need to take lots of time to figure things out. Trial and error - is key. Get on UA-cam and find someone like you does help. Find someone that writes like you finally do. Listen to them. But don’t take it like scripture. Try it. Does it work for you? Some might or might not. Like storygrid - I listen to the advice and pick pieces that work for me. I discard those that do not.
And look, there is science to it. You have to set a scene, give descriptions without bogging down a reader, balance details with action 60/40 in the beginning and 40/60 at the end, but most of it is gut instinct and experience. Don’t overthink it, follow what one of your favorite authors does and go from there.
If this becomes a real issue, you can always turn your lemons into lemonade. Write about your current character finding it difficult to get started on what needs to be done, then see where that goes! Self-analysis? Time management tools? Arranging little rewards for every step well completed? See how your character's strategies might differ from your own, & why, if you like. But in the meantime you're writing! It could even become one of the most memorable comic relief themes in your story 🤸🏼♂️🎆
@@dexterpoindexter3583- that is actually a great idea. My mom is always watching painting tutorials but she rarely paints even though she is a phenomenal artist. Another plot bunny, oh my!
I'm guilty of this, now I simply paste videos on NotebookLM and let it summarize to me the contents so I can read it instead of hearing. It's crazy how much you notice every video about writing is similar to one another when it's written instead of spoken.
I suggest "use time where you can't actually write yourself because you're going somewhere (by car, bus, train, whatever), you're at work (if your work allows you to do so) to listen to videos like this so you have the knowledge ready by the time you actually can write stuff" instead.
Disagree on the reading part. Deliberate reading is very helpful. I'm in the process of re-reading the inciting incidents of all thrillers on my bookshelf to improve my own writing and it's very useful. Same shortening the cycle idea, no need to re-read the whole novels. I did a similar exercise for midpoints also. Pleasure reading is also helpful. I don't think I could write passionately in a genre that I don't read myself.
Without Story Grid, a lot of us would be floating through space without any direction. This channel, out of thousands, in my opinion, is among the most valuable resources out there.
I think what really boosted my ability to write was editing other people's work, first in writers groups, and later as a freelance editor. It is often far easier to tell where an amateur piece of writing falls down than to be able to see your own work as critically. But, after doing that for a while, I began to see where my work had the same problems that I was so carefully editing out of other peoples' manuscripts. Then it was reading critically - how did these writers deal with a problem in their stories that I was trying to work out in mine?
Even if there is no other input I can offer, I can say that you did *at least* put in the effort to *try* all of those things! And even if it didn't ultimately provide what you were looking for, you seem to have definitely come away with more knowledge, understanding, and experience (which you are graciously sharing that with us, I might add). It's time well spent, in my eyes - and I thank you for it!
Writers' groups are where I practice and experiment. Every writers' group has a different personality. Don't give up on them if you've only tried one or two and they weren't quite what you were looking for.
I did all of that and much of it served as useful building blocks. Studying wasn't a waste of my time. If you were in my critique group you would not have had a bad experience because we justify our observations by craft standards and accepted (selling) industry practices.
I would disagree on one thing - reading does work. Find your favorite book - one you think you might best replicate (voice) and those that you just really enjoy. It helped a lot. I look to James Cameron’s Jester. I love that book. But would like some changes. But I love the pace. The voice. The scenes - chapters for him. I take that and use it!
Funnily enough I do play guitar and did play a gig before I had any skills. I started to write songs from day one and over time did acquire skills simply by doing. I can totally relate to the read a lot write a lot theory, I just think that Stephen King over simplified in the pursuit of a neat little phrase. 'Writing is rewriting' is a more helpful quote.
I have found there are no silver bullets imparting knowledge for me to use. I am not one of the mythical genius’ able to grasp concepts at a glance and produce outstanding results with one or two tries. All methods I have learned do not work at first, but ALL of them impart a bit more knowledge I can incorporate. I have watched and learned a lot from Tim. I find this his most amusing lesson. His first thing listed is the “Read a lot, Write a lot” advised from Stephen King. His first advice for success is practice writing and his second is practice focused writing. “Whaaat?” Grandma asked. What are you actually practicing? Writing a lot. How do you know where and what to focus on? Reading a lot, primarily what you have written. The old man waved his rake angrily. “Get off my lawn!”
I will say this - I’ve written stories since I was 18. I’m 53 now. Years of short stories never finished but lots of learned grammar and voice. And lots of books read.
14:00 The third item-that’s where I’d love to have a good AI, to provide expert feedback. But even if we train a model, it’ll never reach that level of intelligence. At least not anytime soon, maybe in the distant future. And using AI for expert feedback wouldn’t be about saving money, but about having a personal expert editor available 24/7. Editors aren’t always around when you need them.
There's no perfect formula. Today's breakthrough genius moment is tomorrow's copycatted formula that turns into a cliche in five years. It's a moving target. I've done all five of these things from the first part of the video, but I've learned things of value and been able to improve my writing from each of them -- while none have been "the silver bullet". So perhaps it depends on what your expectations are from these things. They are tools and techniques. They CAN help. Don't expect them to do the work for you.
Pausing to comment: I've recently done a lot of these things. Mostly I felt overwhelmed by it all. Everything seems to be do this, but also take this advice with a grain of salt. The one thing that clicked in my brain was a short story writing guest lecture from Mary Robinette Kowal. Suddenly, I understood that I try to shove too much stuff into my stories as I'm writing and get lost in all the threads. As soon as I cut everything "extra" out, I was able to write a very concise list of events that needed to happen to get my MC through both their emotional and physical story. Everything I add from here will be those "spinning plates" that will add extra tension and conflict to make the world feel more alive. This is literally the first time I've ever felt confident that I can tell a long-format story.
Up to my 17th book now, with several hundred thousand copies sold, but mostly picture books.' Now writing a novel. I have tried all 5 of the things you mention, nothing worked, just as you say. I even went to the Robert McKee 2 day 'Story' seminar, and read his book, plus most of the other books you mentioned. Still nothing worked. But right here, suddenly, this is the first time I've seen the idea put so clearly of separating practice and performance. Going to hammer down and follow this advice - it's opened the door.
💯 and agree with every point in this video. I tried all of them as well and they didn't work for me. After many years and dead ends, the Story Grid principles have helped me finally finish my novel. The critical component missing for me was writing a great scene. Hiring a Story Grid trained editor was also a game changer. Thank you Story Grid for helping me take my writing to the next level!
I am a convinced fatalist. From my point of view, if a person is destined to write a book, then he will write it. This requires a strong impulse that forces you to act. A real writer writes because he cannot do otherwise. First of all, you can’t lie to yourself. You need to be aware of your priorities. If you do everything but write, it means that it is not relevant to you.
Well, the writing in The Threshing does hold your attention, but the logic mistakes in the opening pages totally destroy the story. Such as: their most experienced scavenger is acting like its her first time scavenging. This is supposed to be post-apocalyptical, but they have plenty of batteries and hand-free communications equipment with good range. But, getting to the present video. The elephant in the room that is going to kill most people attempting this advice is motivation. His class structure where you write the same scene from different perspectives is only doable if you are passively following instructions. But a writer needs to be active. Viewers are working on their own, likely without any good feedback, let alone coaching. The second problem is that all viewers are lumped into the same writing level, which they are not. It is not only a matter of things such as grammatical knowledge, but also experience writing in some fashion, even business reports. Last, reading was improperly defined. You saw how I criticised his earlier book; that is they way you have to read. Few are going to criticise your work properly, but that is not stopping you from criticising other people's work, whether or not you share that feedback. Have I learned from watching tons of UA-cam videos? You bet (unfortunately rarely here), but first I wrote part of a book. When I realised that it was an infodump, I wrote the proper first chapter and then I have been revising that chapter many, many times and drawing up the book's outline with proper notes to guide the editing (things like subtext and foreshadowing are added mostly in revisions, not as part of the original text). The only deadline I have is my own satisfaction with the story. But, because it is a story I want to tell, I am motivated to stay with it, however long it takes. Better one good story than 50 weak ones. Quantity does not equal quality.
I'm an editor. I'm bombarded with bad writing all the time. The last thing I want to do is join a writer's group and read (or hear) more bad writing. Editing has made me (IMHO) a better writer, as I have learned to recognize stilted prose or distorted thinking. Reading is important -- but not in the hopes of absorbing the author's prose, like osmosis. Rather, I study it as I read, to see what makes it work. I am currently struggling through a novel where the characters seem to meander without much plot. Nor are they particularly likeable. And this book earned raves in the media.
I’m now in my second revision of a 450 fantasy. I’m gonna finish it! I have to! I deal with motivation and grammar and voice and chapters and scenes and all that weekly with my editor.
I'm in awe over the advice and explanations on this channel. I've tried to write for decades and know all the standard writing tips by heart, and none of what I've seen before has been as concrete, useful, and illuminating as the information in these videos. I'm trying to apply all of it to my current writing for a computer game, and that story is improving by leaps and bounds. Thanks!
It wasn't pleasant, but I actually think my writing improved after going through a baptism of fire with one certain writer's group. That resulted in, I think, a vastly-improved structure and a beginning.
1. I've heard this ALL the time... doesn't quite work for me. I know everyone's different. BUT I still get this advice from non-writers I know. 2. Kinda worked for me early on. I've skimmed through a bunch of writing reference books, and I follow a number of UA-cam channels, and eventually started learning to think like a writer and looking for inspiration literally everywhere. 3. Honestly never tried it. 4. Not professional, but I did join a local critique group with other amateurs around my age. 5. I'm somewhere between a planner and a pantser. Also, at this point I just have scattered scenes, not quite a linear plot yet. Like I said, I do follow YT channels, but I still just do my own thing.
Few people have an idea that truly stands out from the crowd. There is a small market for this kind of work. But, if you don't truly understand life beyond which most people do, then you won't write a book beyond which most people do, imho. It's not the writing, it's the understanding that matters.
Your advice, which I am reading, is ironically very good. I have watched nearly every one of the tips and tricks by 'experts' on You Tube. Tried most of them too. What I finished up with, was a voice which was not mine. Whether 'my voice' is worth anything in the publishing world is neither here nor there, but if we were to follow the guidelines, we should all end up writing the same book....A bit like those monkeys, given eternity and a typewriter willl write the complete works of Shakespeare. Imagine, if the great masters of literature had accesss to You Tube?. Word count. Although I understand the commercial aspect, these authors would have been rejected outright, as many of their 'novels' fall far short of that arbritary number and are in fact, Novellas. As an avid reader, I am concerned that some brilliant young genious could be dishearened and deprive us all of the pleasure of something new and exciting. Just saying........
We feel what we feel and come from the perspectives that we do and develop the ways of making sense of it that we do and then have the ways of saying it that we can come up with, doing it in a way that makes sense to us and resonates with much else of our experiences, and it appeals to those who come from a 'space' that overlaps enough. Who cares about the common denominator of 'how it should be done'? Did any of the great writers who stood the test of time get tips and work at adapting their expression to the demands of others, or even more so the abstract average? "D.U.M.B., everyone's accusing me"
The King and Sanderson mentions cracked me up. King's books have all of the problems of "just writing" -- long detours and ideas that go nowhere, repeating things, lots of half-done themes. He's just lucky people seem to like it, but no one else could get away with it. And Sanderson's advice is shockingly odd. People rave about his world building and magic systems. But his world building advice is "don't" and his magic system advice is based on the hero getting out of jams by developing a new power. A core of people like that, but it's basically advice for how to take over once he retires. The most interesting writing advice I heard was from a romance writer -- more men equals more dollars.
Try, write something, forget about it for a while, then dig it out a read it. If you like it, keep it, maybe work on it some more. If you don't, toss it and think about what you disliked and why. Try again. Also, if you are not looking forward to writing your current piece, it is probably not worth your energy.
One I can guarantee that is bad for sure is "Joining a writing group"! NEVER do this with the intent to learn or grow as a writer, because you will be beset by self-proclaimed know-it-alls, who have accomplished nothing. I wanted to change no one in the group, I was just interested in other people and writings, but everyone else tried to change me into them, and in their way of writing. Join a group for maybe networking for contacts and such, but NEVER as a teaching class! If I had ANY advice to anyone, and I'm not published, I just write for the love of writing... just write YOUR story and how YOU want to write it... let the editors earn their pay and clean it up!
Spot on with the five things that don't work. As a late term writer [starting in late 70's and now in my 80's] I can confirm everything Tim says in the first part of the video.
@@oilairnalo I hope online or from my website soon. I've written four and working on the fifth. Problem is I'm self-publishing and my pension income means i have to save to pay for editing, cover design, etc. And to get a professional production-which I want-it ain't cheap. I'm writing under the name of 'K.Michaels'. The books are 'The MIndarra series, bks 1+2[working on 3],'The Reluctant Bullfighter' and 'Mon Fraussi'.Keep your eye out for them.🙂
So is the cover, I thought it was just a temporary cover but it seems to be the official one. Matt bird has great advice on how to make titles. He has a few YT interviews and a great writing book.
4 things that helped me the most:
1) Learning to read like a writer
2) Learning how to edit what I wrote
3) Learning how to give feedback/critique. I learned a lot about what not to do and what works while helping others with their manuscripts. Moreso that having people read my stuff.
4) learning to write a scenes rather than writing stories
Learning how to articulate what I like or don't like allowed me objectivity on my own work (usually accompanied with time/distance).
Louis L'Amour completed 105 original works by putting words on paper in the morning and rewriting the previous day's new material in the afternoon. This approach does work, at least for some. Ultimately, you have nothing to rewrite when you get nothing down on paper.
Yeah you really should get words down when you can. Don’t think of your story as poo cause it sounds off rhythm or is missing something/needing polish. That’s why revising exists lol
This guy is obviously just trying to sell you a course. Outlining, writing, revision, reading books and free advice resources WILL and DO work for most people. Chances are, they'll work for you too.
Yeah -- not to mention that practice is implicit in the advice "write a lot." Like I don't see how you can't practice by writing whole stories that you really care about -- if they turn out bad, you can always rewrite them. Like OF COURSE you need drafts and iterations of the same story. OF COURSE you need to edit and revise. You don't need a course to do those things. Not to mention, he says writers' groups don't work, and then he says "get feedback" ... is the feedback you get from writers' groups not feedback?
The bottom line is that writing is personal. Everyone is so different. What no one tells you is this - find your own motivation. Find your own voice. Find what works for you! Plot is out.. ok.. discovery write ok…. They need to take lots of time to figure things out. Trial and error - is key. Get on UA-cam and find someone like you does help. Find someone that writes like you finally do. Listen to them. But don’t take it like scripture. Try it. Does it work for you? Some might or might not. Like storygrid - I listen to the advice and pick pieces that work for me. I discard those that do not.
And look, there is science to it. You have to set a scene, give descriptions without bogging down a reader, balance details with action 60/40 in the beginning and 40/60 at the end, but most of it is gut instinct and experience. Don’t overthink it, follow what one of your favorite authors does and go from there.
Tip 6--wasting time watching UA-cam videos when you should be writing.
If this becomes a real issue, you can always turn your lemons into lemonade. Write about your current character finding it difficult to get started on what needs to be done, then see where that goes! Self-analysis? Time management tools? Arranging little rewards for every step well completed?
See how your character's strategies might differ from your own, & why, if you like. But in the meantime you're writing! It could even become one of the most memorable comic relief themes in your story 🤸🏼♂️🎆
@@dexterpoindexter3583- that is actually a great idea. My mom is always watching painting tutorials but she rarely paints even though she is a phenomenal artist. Another plot bunny, oh my!
I'm guilty of this, now I simply paste videos on NotebookLM and let it summarize to me the contents so I can read it instead of hearing. It's crazy how much you notice every video about writing is similar to one another when it's written instead of spoken.
I suggest "use time where you can't actually write yourself because you're going somewhere (by car, bus, train, whatever), you're at work (if your work allows you to do so) to listen to videos like this so you have the knowledge ready by the time you actually can write stuff" instead.
I need one to get the creative juices flowing for the other.
I'm still on my 1st book, so technically I'm at zero failures. 😂 Hopefully watching your videos will help me to stay at that #!
Disagree on the reading part. Deliberate reading is very helpful. I'm in the process of re-reading the inciting incidents of all thrillers on my bookshelf to improve my own writing and it's very useful. Same shortening the cycle idea, no need to re-read the whole novels. I did a similar exercise for midpoints also.
Pleasure reading is also helpful. I don't think I could write passionately in a genre that I don't read myself.
Without Story Grid, a lot of us would be floating through space without any direction. This channel, out of thousands, in my opinion, is among the most valuable resources out there.
I think what really boosted my ability to write was editing other people's work, first in writers groups, and later as a freelance editor. It is often far easier to tell where an amateur piece of writing falls down than to be able to see your own work as critically. But, after doing that for a while, I began to see where my work had the same problems that I was so carefully editing out of other peoples' manuscripts. Then it was reading critically - how did these writers deal with a problem in their stories that I was trying to work out in mine?
Even if there is no other input I can offer, I can say that you did *at least* put in the effort to *try* all of those things! And even if it didn't ultimately provide what you were looking for, you seem to have definitely come away with more knowledge, understanding, and experience (which you are graciously sharing that with us, I might add). It's time well spent, in my eyes - and I thank you for it!
Writers' groups are where I practice and experiment. Every writers' group has a different personality. Don't give up on them if you've only tried one or two and they weren't quite what you were looking for.
I did all of that and much of it served as useful building blocks. Studying wasn't a waste of my time. If you were in my critique group you would not have had a bad experience because we justify our observations by craft standards and accepted (selling) industry practices.
I would disagree on one thing - reading does work. Find your favorite book - one you think you might best replicate (voice) and those that you just really enjoy. It helped a lot. I look to James Cameron’s Jester. I love that book. But would like some changes. But I love the pace. The voice. The scenes - chapters for him. I take that and use it!
Yeah, looking for what works in books you love and copying that is such a good idea.
Funnily enough I do play guitar and did play a gig before I had any skills. I started to write songs from day one and over time did acquire skills simply by doing. I can totally relate to the read a lot write a lot theory, I just think that Stephen King over simplified in the pursuit of a neat little phrase. 'Writing is rewriting' is a more helpful quote.
I have found there are no silver bullets imparting knowledge for me to use. I am not one of the mythical genius’ able to grasp concepts at a glance and produce outstanding results with one or two tries. All methods I have learned do not work at first, but ALL of them impart a bit more knowledge I can incorporate.
I have watched and learned a lot from Tim. I find this his most amusing lesson. His first thing listed is the “Read a lot, Write a lot” advised from Stephen King. His first advice for success is practice writing and his second is practice focused writing.
“Whaaat?” Grandma asked.
What are you actually practicing? Writing a lot. How do you know where and what to focus on? Reading a lot, primarily what you have written.
The old man waved his rake angrily. “Get off my lawn!”
I will say this - I’ve written stories since I was 18. I’m 53 now. Years of short stories never finished but lots of learned grammar and voice. And lots of books read.
14:00 The third item-that’s where I’d love to have a good AI, to provide expert feedback. But even if we train a model, it’ll never reach that level of intelligence. At least not anytime soon, maybe in the distant future. And using AI for expert feedback wouldn’t be about saving money, but about having a personal expert editor available 24/7. Editors aren’t always around when you need them.
There's no perfect formula. Today's breakthrough genius moment is tomorrow's copycatted formula that turns into a cliche in five years. It's a moving target. I've done all five of these things from the first part of the video, but I've learned things of value and been able to improve my writing from each of them -- while none have been "the silver bullet". So perhaps it depends on what your expectations are from these things. They are tools and techniques. They CAN help. Don't expect them to do the work for you.
Pausing to comment: I've recently done a lot of these things. Mostly I felt overwhelmed by it all. Everything seems to be do this, but also take this advice with a grain of salt.
The one thing that clicked in my brain was a short story writing guest lecture from Mary Robinette Kowal. Suddenly, I understood that I try to shove too much stuff into my stories as I'm writing and get lost in all the threads. As soon as I cut everything "extra" out, I was able to write a very concise list of events that needed to happen to get my MC through both their emotional and physical story. Everything I add from here will be those "spinning plates" that will add extra tension and conflict to make the world feel more alive. This is literally the first time I've ever felt confident that I can tell a long-format story.
Up to my 17th book now, with several hundred thousand copies sold, but mostly picture books.' Now writing a novel. I have tried all 5 of the things you mention, nothing worked, just as you say.
I even went to the Robert McKee 2 day 'Story' seminar, and read his book, plus most of the other books you mentioned.
Still nothing worked.
But right here, suddenly, this is the first time I've seen the idea put so clearly of separating practice and performance.
Going to hammer down and follow this advice - it's opened the door.
💯 and agree with every point in this video. I tried all of them as well and they didn't work for me. After many years and dead ends, the Story Grid principles have helped me finally finish my novel. The critical component missing for me was writing a great scene. Hiring a Story Grid trained editor was also a game changer. Thank you Story Grid for helping me take my writing to the next level!
I am a convinced fatalist. From my point of view, if a person is destined to write a book, then he will write it. This requires a strong impulse that forces you to act. A real writer writes because he cannot do otherwise. First of all, you can’t lie to yourself. You need to be aware of your priorities. If you do everything but write, it means that it is not relevant to you.
Well, the writing in The Threshing does hold your attention, but the logic mistakes in the opening pages totally destroy the story. Such as: their most experienced scavenger is acting like its her first time scavenging. This is supposed to be post-apocalyptical, but they have plenty of batteries and hand-free communications equipment with good range.
But, getting to the present video. The elephant in the room that is going to kill most people attempting this advice is motivation. His class structure where you write the same scene from different perspectives is only doable if you are passively following instructions. But a writer needs to be active. Viewers are working on their own, likely without any good feedback, let alone coaching.
The second problem is that all viewers are lumped into the same writing level, which they are not. It is not only a matter of things such as grammatical knowledge, but also experience writing in some fashion, even business reports. Last, reading was improperly defined. You saw how I criticised his earlier book; that is they way you have to read. Few are going to criticise your work properly, but that is not stopping you from criticising other people's work, whether or not you share that feedback.
Have I learned from watching tons of UA-cam videos? You bet (unfortunately rarely here), but first I wrote part of a book. When I realised that it was an infodump, I wrote the proper first chapter and then I have been revising that chapter many, many times and drawing up the book's outline with proper notes to guide the editing (things like subtext and foreshadowing are added mostly in revisions, not as part of the original text). The only deadline I have is my own satisfaction with the story. But, because it is a story I want to tell, I am motivated to stay with it, however long it takes. Better one good story than 50 weak ones. Quantity does not equal quality.
This vid made so much sense -- thanks
I'm an editor. I'm bombarded with bad writing all the time. The last thing I want to do is join a writer's group and read (or hear) more bad writing.
Editing has made me (IMHO) a better writer, as I have learned to recognize stilted prose or distorted thinking.
Reading is important -- but not in the hopes of absorbing the author's prose, like osmosis. Rather, I study it as I read, to see what makes it work.
I am currently struggling through a novel where the characters seem to meander without much plot. Nor are they particularly likeable. And this book earned raves in the media.
I’m now in my second revision of a 450 fantasy. I’m gonna finish it! I have to! I deal with motivation and grammar and voice and chapters and scenes and all that weekly with my editor.
Great advice!
I'm in awe over the advice and explanations on this channel. I've tried to write for decades and know all the standard writing tips by heart, and none of what I've seen before has been as concrete, useful, and illuminating as the information in these videos. I'm trying to apply all of it to my current writing for a computer game, and that story is improving by leaps and bounds. Thanks!
Sir expecting elaborate video about how to find an story ideas
thank god for real talk - just found your channel
It wasn't pleasant, but I actually think my writing improved after going through a baptism of fire with one certain writer's group. That resulted in, I think, a vastly-improved structure and a beginning.
1. I've heard this ALL the time... doesn't quite work for me. I know everyone's different. BUT I still get this advice from non-writers I know.
2. Kinda worked for me early on. I've skimmed through a bunch of writing reference books, and I follow a number of UA-cam channels, and eventually started learning to think like a writer and looking for inspiration literally everywhere.
3. Honestly never tried it.
4. Not professional, but I did join a local critique group with other amateurs around my age.
5. I'm somewhere between a planner and a pantser. Also, at this point I just have scattered scenes, not quite a linear plot yet.
Like I said, I do follow YT channels, but I still just do my own thing.
Few people have an idea that truly stands out from the crowd. There is a small market for this kind of work. But, if you don't truly understand life beyond which most people do, then you won't write a book beyond which most people do, imho. It's not the writing, it's the understanding that matters.
I tried SO MUCH of these writing classes, only thing that happened was the joy of writing disapeared and I stopped writing..
For me reading a lot and writing a lot with purpose has helped me a lot . I’m not sure about this video.
Outstanding content as always Tim. Really appreciate everything you guys do
Your advice, which I am reading, is ironically very good. I have watched nearly every one of the tips and tricks by 'experts' on You Tube. Tried most of them too. What I finished up with, was a voice which was not mine.
Whether 'my voice' is worth anything in the publishing world is neither here nor there, but if we were to follow the guidelines, we should all end up writing the same book....A bit like those monkeys, given eternity and a typewriter willl write the complete works of Shakespeare.
Imagine, if the great masters of literature had accesss to You Tube?.
Word count. Although I understand the commercial aspect, these authors would have been rejected outright, as many of their 'novels' fall far short of that arbritary number and are in fact, Novellas.
As an avid reader, I am concerned that some brilliant young genious could be dishearened and deprive us all of the pleasure of something new and exciting.
Just saying........
We feel what we feel and come from the perspectives that we do and develop the ways of making sense of it that we do and then have the ways of saying it that we can come up with, doing it in a way that makes sense to us and resonates with much else of our experiences, and it appeals to those who come from a 'space' that overlaps enough. Who cares about the common denominator of 'how it should be done'? Did any of the great writers who stood the test of time get tips and work at adapting their expression to the demands of others, or even more so the abstract average? "D.U.M.B., everyone's accusing me"
"Be strong, be wrong"
I'm doing all 5 right now
Writing groups didn't work for me even ones with a writing facilitator.
Thank you so much for making this video. You just expressed all my frustration. This video was extremely helpful.
Just writing words down doesn't build the structure of the story. You need a plan.
The King and Sanderson mentions cracked me up. King's books have all of the problems of "just writing" -- long detours and ideas that go nowhere, repeating things, lots of half-done themes. He's just lucky people seem to like it, but no one else could get away with it. And Sanderson's advice is shockingly odd. People rave about his world building and magic systems. But his world building advice is "don't" and his magic system advice is based on the hero getting out of jams by developing a new power. A core of people like that, but it's basically advice for how to take over once he retires.
The most interesting writing advice I heard was from a romance writer -- more men equals more dollars.
Very true,
Try, write something, forget about it for a while, then dig it out a read it. If you like it, keep it, maybe work on it some more. If you don't, toss it and think about what you disliked and why. Try again.
Also, if you are not looking forward to writing your current piece, it is probably not worth your energy.
This is amazing advice. I wrote a million words in 3 years and I never got better.
One I can guarantee that is bad for sure is "Joining a writing group"! NEVER do this with the intent to learn or grow as a writer, because you will be beset by self-proclaimed know-it-alls, who have accomplished nothing. I wanted to change no one in the group, I was just interested in other people and writings, but everyone else tried to change me into them, and in their way of writing. Join a group for maybe networking for contacts and such, but NEVER as a teaching class!
If I had ANY advice to anyone, and I'm not published, I just write for the love of writing... just write YOUR story and how YOU want to write it... let the editors earn their pay and clean it up!
Have tried all of the above (all 5).
Great Video 😊 for me many of those didnt Work. And i Like really your Tips of the end.
This is awesome advice! 😲
Thank you! 😊
I learned writing great scenes from Michael Levin best selling ghost writer from New York. That’s how I practice before writing 🇬🇧🇺🇸
Spot on with the five things that don't work. As a late term writer [starting in late 70's and now in my 80's] I can confirm everything Tim says in the first part of the video.
@@oilairnalo I hope online or from my website soon. I've written four and working on the fifth. Problem is I'm self-publishing and my pension income means i have to save to pay for editing, cover design, etc. And to get a professional production-which I want-it ain't cheap. I'm writing under the name of 'K.Michaels'. The books are 'The MIndarra series, bks 1+2[working on 3],'The Reluctant Bullfighter' and 'Mon Fraussi'.Keep your eye out for them.🙂
I just subscribed. But the title of that book(SH)has to be the worst title in the history of books
So is the cover, I thought it was just a temporary cover but it seems to be the official one.
Matt bird has great advice on how to make titles. He has a few YT interviews and a great writing book.
Sitting down and writing when my creative juices are flowing helps me.
This is kind of meta
Honestly, I did not learn to write until I found Story Grid.
None
I've tried all of these looking for that magic key that will unlock the secret to writing a novel.