I don't have such fancy machines - heck, I don't even make cabinets most of the time! - and yet I keep watching your videos Peter, because I like your style and in-depth explanations and reasoning.
Hi there! I am a Clamex S fan. They can be used with a regular biscuit joiner. But you might want to check out Scheulenburg. They have connectors that only need a drill. Only drawback are the many pieces like in Festools system. Regards, Etna.
We have both systems in our workshop and it comes down two things cost and different ways of working. If only had one budget one machine it be the festool it's just for one way of connection .not say these are cheap machines they are not .I could buy a decent morticer for the price of one machine .the zeta is brillant for carcase work and frame connection .as everything comes down speed over cost rule
Others have mentioned that they have no intention of buying either tool and i fall in that category, and yet i could not stop watching. If i was making cabinets all day as you are i would seriously consider one or other of these. They are awesome bits of kit and I could see how they would pay for themselves in no time. fascinating insight into a range of tools i would love but could never justify/afford. Thanks Peter.
Thanks Andrew! Good to hear you found it interesting, and I completely understand what you say about both tools being out of reach. I’m constantly surprised though, by how many people tell me that they have a Domino for non-professional use! The usual justification seems to be limited workshop-time available, and anything that can speed things up or help with efficiency is a good things. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I agree I think if I was going to make a load of kitchen cabinets or a similar big job I would be all over justifying having one. I just rarely make things like that. It is amazing how tools come more affordable though. When I started wood working there would be no way I could have afforded a table saw. Now I have the DeWalt one like Andy Mac.
I'd never used the Clamex before until yesterday where I've used it extensively for a birch plywood shelving unit I've been making freelance for a company. I have to say I'm very impressed at the simplicity, accuracy and ease with which the system works. Thing is though, it's eye wateringly expensive so for now, I'll not be getting one of my own. Great though.
I have the Festool system and used it for the first time this week. It made sense for me since I already had a Domino machine. My only comment, other than this was a great video, is no doubt Festool designed this system for the posts to be removed for shipping. Otherwise, why bother with their system? I removed the posts and re-inserted them and they presented no issue with re-tightening. I wouldn't be concerned about that aspect. If I used these types of connectors as a business, I would definitely go with the Lamelo for all the reasons you said. BTW, so sorry for your loss on the passing of the Queen.
What a great resource you are Peter! I just started milling the lumber for a large wall-to-wall bookshelf installation at a customer's house. I was thinking of using the Festool connectors to assemble the pre-assembled "modules, as there is very little wiggle room side-to-side. Your note about the added width needed for the long peg just saved me a lot of headache from going down that rabbet-hole. Cheers!
Glad to hear it, thank you! If side-to-side wiggle room is an issue, then the Lamello Clamex is my fitting of choice as there’s just the little 5mm nubbin that protrudes - and you can actually trim that off and still get a very strong hold. 👍 The Clamex S connectors are due out next month - they work with a standard biscuit jointer blade - but if you need something sooner then the Peanut 2 connector can be used like a Lamello Divario (?) so it slides into the slot from the front. HTH P
I own prefer to use Lamello Zeta P2 Clamex connectors in conjunction with Domino DF 500 4x20 or 5x30 tenons. This way you can get best combination of strength and versatility for joints. Loosen tenons take all mechanical pressure and Clamex connector provide great clamp pressure between parts with ability to detach on demand.
Very interresting Peter. After seeing this video and the points you mentioned I will defenetly say Lamello. Thanks for demostrating the difference between these two systems, it was nice to see in close up how they work.
Totally agree! When people compare a biscuit joint and a domino joint; I always describe the biscuit as a loose tounge and the domino as a loose tenon. They both have their benefits, and applications.
I have the Domino 500 and 700 .. I like the 700 connectors but, like you, grabbed a Lamello for the smaller stuff. You'd happily put a bed together with the 700 connectors but I think they're clumsy compared to Lamellos system for things like shelves, etc.
Great explanation Peter! my biggest gripe with those Festool fixings is the size of the hole needed and also the very cheap plastic covers that remind me of a cheap MFI kitchen back in the day or flat pack Ikea furniture. I do love using the dominos and was my main purpose buying the 500. Pretty excited about the Lamello as I managed to find an almost new one yesterday with the Tanos kit inc the Clamex, Tenso and Divario fixings. Best of all its the 50th anniversary model, braggers rights model lol. Looking forward to building my own kitchen using this system.
Cheers Steve! Early days (for us all!) with the Lamello, but the Clamex are clearly a great general-purpose fitting especially for cabinetry, and the Domino Connect certainly has its place if you’re already a Domino user, and particularly for narrower-section stock. Good to have both at our disposal, eh Steve? 😆😂👍👍 👍
Hmmm. Now that I’m not so sure about. I know the Clamex are rated at ~80Kg per fitting, so they’d probably be OK. I wouldn’t fancy the Domino’s chances - better off with the bigger connect fittings in the DF700 I think! 👍👍
+andrew roberts It is an amazing system and you can build many things with it. There is a cheaper option but it is not as good as the Lamello system. Knapp connectors are biscuit like in that you cut the slot with a normal biscuit machine and then slide the connector in and it is a knock down system as well.
I’ve noticed you’re creeping up to 40,000 subscribers Peter😀. I read somewhere on the internet (so it must be true) that it is customary for cabinet building / carpenter UA-camrs to giveaway a Lamello Zeta when they hit 40k so don’t forget good sir😀
Great review Peter. I have a domino and I am currently looking at these fixings. I would much prefer the clamex but I can’t justify the astronomical cost of the hole package that I would need to buy. It’s almost as if companies like Festool and Lamello regard these as luxury tools and try to keep their pricing artificially inflated. When you look at the actual domino fixings, it’s almost as if you could go to IKEA and get a few of those fixings and do the same job…..
Thanks! I agree, the price of the fixings is getting silly. But if you wanted the convenience of the clamex without the cost of the Zeta, then the S20 fittings are a pretty good option and only need a biscuit jointer. I did a video on them a little while back. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks for the information Peter, very much appreciated. I wasn’t aware of the S20 fittings, they look good but I can also see their limitations. I did a search for the video that you mentioned but I couldn’t see it (I think I was looking back to far in history). But by the magic of UA-cam it has just popped up on my feed, it was very helpful.
Excellent vid with awesome imagery - well done again. For me the Festool Domino will get far more done (the Connect system is an extra, an addition) but for it specific purpose then the Lamello wins by quite of a margin. One tool only? Festool Domino. Can justify and afford two tools? Buy the Lamello as well. The Connect system is also more environmentally friendly: most of the system relies on metal whilst the Lamello is mostly plastic...
I have a domino machine and was wondering when they would finally develop a fixing system. Now that it is out, I am generally disappointed with them and find them weak. My partner has a Lamello, and that is what is being used in our workshop combined with domino wooden pegs. The combination gives a very stable and sturdy finished furniture.
Thanks! Lamello’s a fine machine, but it’s more of a niche product than the Domino. Domino’s more versatile in eg narrow stock, but for carcass & cabinet construction the Lamello ticks the boxes. 👍👍
I agree about the Festool connectors. I like the engineering behind them and the "Trilobite-like" shape of the gripping end is cool (biomimicry!) but for practical purposes the same issues make nervous both in terms of transport but also user end issues. On the surface I like the Lamello approach which is way more conventional. Goes to show the fancier more cerebral approach isn't always the best solution. In fact, one issue in general with the Domino 500 is the lack of a proper grip. It may sound strange but a lot of Festool tools lack surfaces that are grippy where they need to be and ergonomic. It almost feels like they opt for a more minimal look as opposed to proper form following function approach. For example, the 1400 Router on the stick handle has no grippy surface just smooth plastic. Picking it up quickly and feeling the weight of the machine tip forward and down, while, holding onto a smooth surface is not exactly best practice. I enjoy my Festool tools so don't get me wrong but with so many simple oversights I often look at Mafell as still the more user friendly of the two. I just wish here in the US their presence was greater.
Yes, agree about the ergonomics & the lack of ‘grippiness’ of many Festools; no joke as people age, and grips get weaker. I think the ergonomics of the bigger domino is better, and the small one is long overdue for a makeover, I think. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop back when that Core77 article came out they said Festool had two designers and over 20 engineers I believe. One of the designers had been there for many decades while the other was right out of grad school who I guess did a Festool thesis project etc. Anyhow from a design perspective one would hope to have more designers per engineer than that! I have a whole list of easily 3D printed items as simple accessories to make the 500 and some of their other tools more user friendly. Maybe one day I will get around to making some of them. But could someone make a nice solid aluminum mount for the 1400 on the track please? The plastic one with the metal rods doesn't cut it.
It's an impressive bit of kit, the P2, with how it cuts the slot. The price is eye-wateringly expensive though. No doubt for someone in the game though, it'll quite quickly make its investment back in saved time.
You also forgot about the Festool C 18 cordless drill you need to take that large drill-bit for the hole in the boards face (where the tightening screw emerges for your screwdriver to grab a hold of).
Many thanks for making this video. I'd first seen the Lamello on Joey at kingpost timberworks' channel, and was very fascinated. Great to see the side by side comparison - I think you and Joey might have to split the commission that I'll shortly be paying Lamello.
Great explanation!. I am thinking to buy one of these machines and considering I still can use dowels I may opt for the Lamelo for the same reasons you mentioned, the festool way seems to carry risk and a lot of messing about once you get to the job inserting all the bits
This is an awful good and honest review Peter. Even a green heart has to get somewhat red sometimes - herein we both agree. A lot of people make reviews but you Peter, nails it and brings everything down to an easy to understand conclusion. 25 mm and easy to ship. I think Festool have to buy the two annoying red companies down south after all - if you can beat them for goodness sakes buy them and paint them green 😜💪❤ Cheers mate 🇩🇰
Haha, thanks Henrik! Always a place in my workshop - and my heart - for the Domino, but the Lamello has a lot of appeal for cabinetry. Look forward to using it in earnest soon. 👍👍
I never leave the tenons in. They don't need to be screwed in firmly to work. I know it's counter intuitive. The tightness of the join comes from the set screw correctly positioning itself in the hollow side of the tenon which has the effect of pulling the tenon slightly up and creates the needed tension.
Politely disagree. I was borderline paranoid about over tightening them when I first had them, and as a result the pins weren’t driven fully home, and the joint didn’t pull right. In my experience they have to be driven in fully. 🤷♂️👍
Politely disagree. I was borderline paranoid about over tightening them when I first had them, and as a result the pins weren’t driven fully home, and the joint didn’t pull right. In my experience they have to be driven in fully. 🤷♂️👍
As a fellow festoolian. I’ve played with festool connectors, still prefer to glue regular dominos whenever possible, never played with lamello. Question? From what I gather here it’s almost same as biscuit jointer cut style. And the way lamello fixes itself to material is by applying pressure towards skinny sides of board. Potentially splitting the board? As with festool, it always applies pressure towards small sides of mortise (along the length of material) meaning it’ll almost never fail? Which also tells me it’ll still be stronger connection in stuff that is skinnier then 3/4” or 25mm in thickness. Or when you work with laminated plywood? Not mdf What’s your take on the strength of the connectors?
The Lamello connectors are immensely strong - the Clamex apply 80 kilos of pressure per fitting - so yes, just like with dominos there’s the potential for the material to split of pressure is applied in a way that the joint is stressed eg racking a corner joint, especially in eg MDF. But in practice this has never been an issue as once the backs are fitted to a carcass the structure is pretty ridgid 👍
Being on the Festool fb group I know the lamello has won this war 😂. Haven’t used one, but neither have I even bought domino connectors for my df500 to try out yet. The only improvement for the lamello that’s been raised is...reference pins and I think a slight price drop, but why would they when they know it’s the better machine for a similar job. Great video as always, eagerly awaiting the next cnc video though 😉🙂👍🏻
Nice side by side comparison, mate. 👍 Andy over on Manor Wood did a strength test on the Lamellos a few months back, and man they are surprisingly strong. I think he may have bent a clamp trying to break a joint...
I’ve long owned a lamelo machine love it it was a expense to purchase but I cannot remember how many times I’ve used it over the last forty years I’m not opposed to knock down hardware but there constantly remains the problem on hiding the fasteners i e looked at the domino machine and questioned how much I’ll use it but I’m sure I’ll convince
The Festool solution leaves holes that look remarkably like those on Ikea furniture. Not a huge selling feature to a client whose just forked out several thousand for fitted units. Just sayin ....
+Alan Morris Most customers would not even notice that they are there to be honest. Woodworkers and crafts people sometimes do not realize that the average customer is not so switched on to small details like that.
I'd say for most fitted units the holes would be on the outside so they will never be seen. Both tools have great benefits. The lamello definitely wins in the knockdown department. Where the Domino is only a passing grade. I think the reverse is true for structural connections. The domino's ability to replace traditional mortice and tenons and with such incredible strength is it's most significant benefit. I wouldn't even trust the 14mm lamello biscuits to do the same.
Good explanation there Pete , I don't think I'll ever be using either system, but from an engineering point of view I was interested in how they work... & I always drop in to give yer vids a like ... 😎👍☘
It's funny you would post this today, I was at the Festool roadshow on wednesday morning and saw this. It was very impressive. But the domino is way out of my price range at the moment. Let alone buying the fittings kit :P
Good video Peter...I would not say there is a winner......at least Festool makes again stronger joints so they stay true to their ground (although in mdf it probably does not make a lot of difference) That being said Lamello is a quick/easy and quality solution in a lot (the majority) of situations.
Thanks Erik. I agree, no real winner, though the clamex is undoubtedly the more elegant solution, the Domino connector will fit in much narrower stock. So you have any reference to the relative strength of the connector system? I searched quite a bit before I made the video and couldn’t find anything about the holding/ clamping force it applies. The clamex apply 80Kg of clamping force, just FYI. I’m certainly glad to have both options for the work I do. 👍👍
The Lamelo is a stunning looking but of kit. Looks like a huge time saver too. Love it... Blue point bit driver Peter? Not been near the dreaded Snap On can have you....🤣🤣🤣🤣
I have both. I would say I feel the Domino connectors are a bit more substantial I have used them in much larger pieces where they are a significant part of the structural integrity of the piece. I've only just got the lamello and absolutely love the tenso for mitres it's so simple and no clamps necessary just the connectors and a bit of glue. But I don't think I would trust the clamex if there were too be a lot of lateral force placed on the connector. It just doesn't seem as strong as the Domino connectors.
They both have their place, and the domino connectors can be used in eg narrow stock, where the Clamex is much more useful for sheet materials. I’ve never had an issue with either fitting, but the connectors for the DF500 feel like much more of an afterthought compared with eg the connectors for the XL. 👍👍
Just rewatched this video after listening to your discussion with Andy on “measuring up” and you can really see how much time the lamello must save you.
@@MrBishbashbosh2012 Still on it. Taking it slow and steady as I'm breaking the cardinal rule and using a new tool on a job. I'll have a proper comparison of the two systems out in a little while. 👍
I think it’s more nuanced than that tbh,; having spent a week or so working on very narrow section stock, I think the Domino is a more flexible system overall- it the Lamello wins hands down did the KD fittings and cabinet/carcass construction. Not an either/or decision, I think. 🤷♂️👍
Thank you for sharing this, the Lamelo looks good but I won't be buying one as I don't need one but if if I was building furniture for a living would definitely go with it
Thank's Peter for another good insight into the two systems, unfortunately as a hobby woodworker both are way out of my price range, the only price I've seen for the Lamelo is £1350.
I think it bears mentioning that whilst Lamello's connection is a better system in your opinion (I don't have a foot in either camp) if you had neither tool - the Domino or the Zeta, surely one would buy the Domino. Despite the connection system not being quite as useful, the Domino is a vastly more useful tool. Can you imagine running your shop without it and what tool do you remain to pick up more often?
Yes, indeed: this video was - as per the title - specifically about these connectors. I think the Domino is a more versatile tool for general use, but the Lamello wins for sheets goods/ cabinets/ carcasses.
I think it's quite clear that the Clamex is the superior product, like you say, it looks as though the Domino Connect was a complete afterthought. And that cover for the hole, it's atrocious! It makes the work look so cheap! I think what we need now is for Andy to do some strength tests to see which is stronger!
@@animationcreations42 He is free to do as he pleases. Out of curiosity do you work or are you sponsored by an opposing businesses? (you are not part of an anti marketing team?)
The original knockdown furniture was campaign furniture. For a long time I have liked the aesthetic and really been in awe of the skill of the builders. It reached its best at the height of the Empire. Sorry Peter absolutely no mdf or dominoes and entirely done by hand. Reasonable wiki entry [it was used by the Egyptians (who probably took the idea from someone else)] but not correct in claiming it as a Roman invention. If anyone decides to do a modern project video I would love to see it. There is a comment from someone with a son in the military I will try to post a more specific post in reply to that.
An interesting pair of couplings but is the metal option stronger than the plastic one? Clearly the simplicity and size of the Lamello is far preferred but it does appear to remove more material to fit. Also, how do the materials costs compare, temporarily ignoring the time element? Another engrossing video though, thanks!
Thanks! I haven’t been able to find any information on the strength of the Domino connectors, but the Clamex exert 80Kg of clamping pressure so I’d expect them plenty strong for the kind of cabinetry applications I’ll be using them for. You make an interesting point about the material removed, but while the Lamello may take more away, the forces are spread across the whole of the fitting (both sides) whereas the domino connect seems more reliant on one half of the fitting getting its elbows out. Fittings are ~£1.60 (domino) vs ~£1.20 (lamello) though bulk buying may reduce this a little. 👍
Great video as always but... I’m confused. What’s preventing you from putting the tenons in the edge vs the face? You’re just changing boards where you drill the mortises and the hole for the nut
Thanks! That’s just not how they were designed to be used, and if you wanted to try it you’d need to be making carcasses from much thicker boards as the connectors are too large for the standard 18mm. 👍👍
I just want to know how the lamello is able to cut that slot with the relief cuts on the sides. You plunge it in, right? How does it not make the entire slot that same size? Is it moving the blade up and down when you get to full depth?
nice review, I been using the XL connector a fair bit and really like them ... how would the festool connector work in particule board type panels (19mm) ?
If I was smart enough to invent these joiners, the Festool would be Mark I and the Lamello Mark II. The higher the Mark the better the device. So now I know another tool that I have no use for. Got to go now, got to look on eBay and Amazon for the best price on the Lamello.
Hi Peter, Great channel thanks for all your effort you put in to produce such good content. A question for you, what is the hinged mechanism you have on your crosscut track, i don't know if you have produced a video that covers this? Many thanks Martyn
Great video as always thanks ,haven't saw this asked yet. so if you were to recommend buying the lamello or festool domino if you had neither to begin with, with your knowledge now for overall usage which would you pick?
That’s such a tough question - though one I’ve touched on in the podcast. For the bulk of the work I do, then I think the Lamello would be the better choice, though I think the versatility of the Domino makes it a better general-purpose machine. I’m glad I have both, let’s say. 🤷♂️👍
Peter Millard well, they’re really for different situations. The Lamello is great for knockdown furniture, but the domino is good for glued up assembly, and can be used for knockdown with the connector kit. Can the lamello be used for glued connectors too?
Hi Peter! Great video and great explanation on pros and cons. I have just received the domino connectors set and I was wondering if I could use it with chipboard (melamine) panels. I think I saw a demonstration with the Lamello Clamex but cannot recall a single demo with a Festool Domino connector. Would that be possible?
Thanks Harris! I think a lot would depend on the chipboard - if it’s a good quality MFC e.g. Egger then you’d, shouldn’t be a problem at all. I’d run some tests before using it on a job though! 👍👍
For installing into a tight space, comparing these two systems, Lamello seems to require only 4-5mm spacing to get your pieces into place. Is there another Lamello that requires even less space? Thanks for the video!
Yes, that’s the gist of it. If you need less space then one thing you can do is to remove the nubbins on the Clamex and just rely on the pivoting tongue. Obvs. you have less lateral strength, but they’re still very strong. An alternative may be something like the divario fittings, but they’re a different animal. 👍
Thanks! These Clamex connectors will only work with the Zeta, but I believe there are other fittings that will work with a regular biscuit slot, though my understanding is that they need to be screwed in place. 👍
Very informative, i always thought the domino and zeta p did the same job, but the difference is quite clear. Why do you use that extra fence on the zeta p? Or is it part of the tool? I just own a lamello classic x
Regarding transport of panels. Could you just remove the Festool pegs and refit them on-site? That would get them out of the way and remove the danger of bending/breaking one. Another question. How does the Lamello cutter make that shaped slot? Does it move up and down to put the under cuts in?
As said in the video, the pegs would need to refit exactly to ensure a solid fit, and I’m not convinced they would. Re the Lamello, see video #325 for a slo-mo of the action. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Ahh, I see. Thanks for the clarification! I'll just stick with my domino, but I don't do much cabinet work, so really no need for knock down fittings. Interesting video nonetheless. Thanks again!
I guessing the 25mm extra than the Lamello is more of a concern with shelving type joints rather than top or base joints as they can literally be on top of the sides, I am rushing so this might not make sense
Peter, i wish to make a long entertainment unit that will require a mdf or plywood benchtop longer than available stock. Would you recommend either of these to join lengths end to end? Regards, Jeff
Hi Peter, did you give any consideration to tiga tool domino connectors. They look far simpler than festool. Never tried but I would be interested to see your take on them:) Great channel, thanks for all work on the content I know its massive much appreciated.
Hi Mateusz , and thanks! I had a look at them back when they were called ‘Dominofix’ and though they’re a neater system than the ‘official’ domino connectors - and they were available for the df500 before them too - I just didn’t like the idea of needing to screw everything together tbh. Never managed to get my hands on any, so I don’t know how strong they were in reality. 🤷♂️👍👍
I currently use biscuits and screws for my carcasses, so may be missing something here. Looking to change to one of these systems so any advice appreciated. If you are working in a tight space why can’t you make up the carcass, then slide it into the alcove. Then there’s no issue if the connectors stick out by 25-50mm before assembly. Also, can you not put the access holes on the exterior of the cabinet, so they are hidden when fitted, or does the Festool setup not allow you to do that? Thanks.
Sometimes you have to build something in situ - where access is too tight to get to get a fully assembled carcass in, for example - and not having to allow for the spike on the connect can make all the difference. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks for the reply. I've always found that pre-assembling helps when getting units into tight spaces. It sounds like you have a great deal of experience with these things, so will wait until I hit the problem before I decide if I'm right or wrong!
Another reason to consider lamelo is thats its also now available in cordless. I don't think the domino is. Its a pity the lamelo doesn't have the spring stops like the domino
I am looking to buy the domino DF 500 for it's versatility. I was wondering what that accessory you have attached to the base of the machine is called? And where about I could purchase one?
Hi Peter, interesting comparison, clearly the Lamello wins on simplicity of implementation. Would the joint and by extension the carcass being built be as strong as if it was done using the domino system?
Yes for the domino connect, as for the lamello, almost certaoinly, but if you've seen my videos then you've aseen every joint I've made with it, lol! I'll know more when I use it more. 👍
Could you use the lamello to attach face frames to the cabinet? How much are the lamello connectors compared to the domino connectors? I like that lamello. I think I would buy that over the domino
Have you ever used a finisher nailer with a bit of glue rebating the bac kof the cab into the frame. I build boxes all day none have ever failed was in a kitchen we built 17 years ago and all is good. I'm looking for a system to build doors but I see no reason for this system for this application.
You say that you didn’t like the fact that the domino connection sticks out 25mm making it not a snug fit in say an alcove. Don’t forget you would have the other side the same so the unit would be about 50mm narrower overall. Or am I missing something.
Hi I see you used MDF how much force would it take to pull the joints apart because it seem that you fix both sides one one set but no the other you just seem to slot one side in the slot and the other you drill whole to join together if you get what I mean
Hi. Sorry, not sure which ‘black stop’ you mean?? Was it on the Domino at 4:54? That’s a Domino-plate from Seneca woodworking - takes away any fence drift, and gives additional support. 👍 Domi-plate UK: amzn.to/2PffzFE (US: amzn.to/2QU1mi9)
Good comparison Peter. I think both systems are helpful but here are two more and they are slightly less refined but get the job done. Someone already mentioned Scheulenburg. Their system looks good. They were mentioned by someone else in a reply. The company is actually V.M.V. Scheulenburg, www.vmv-owl.de/downloads.html Another company is U.S. company with a basic system that uses a cross dowel jig and cross dowels to put furniture together. You only need the cross dowel jig, a drill with the appropriate bit and cross dowels and connectors www.woodpeck.com/woodpeckers-universal-cross-dowel-jig-3052.html Ron
+Ron H Scheulenburg system would be more suited to CNC as alignment would be an issue when using just a hand drill. Manual jigs for dowels are great for high end furniture as they can be a little bit slow but that is ok on more premium products but for every day quality furniture it would probably be too slow. Reason for this is that dowels require alignment.
Peter Millard. Thanks Peter. I have been thinking about getting a Lamello for some time now but have held off as I have a domino.and like you I think the Festool connect system is a bit too fussy with too many components. Something I have been trying on my personal furniture as a test in flat pack style items is making the domino mortise in the horizontal and vertical piece as usual and then running a screw in from the side, through the horizontal upper and lower and the vertical piece and through the domino and a 1/2 or beyond the domino. So far they have held up fine. And if after knocking them down and back together several times the hole for the screw wears out I can re-drill the hole, remove the domino and glue a dowel in the hole, re-drill it, then reinsert the domino and screw It back together. This is fine for my personal items that I’m testing this on but wouldn’t do this on a clients furniture. Do you think any of the Lamello knock down fasteners would be strong enough on a cabinet that is hanging on the wall and has say 150 to 200 pounds of items in it? Obviously on a base style cabinet it would be plenty strong. Sorry for such a long winded conversation... Ron
Ron H Hi Ron. That’s an interesting one, with a wall-hung cabinet. In truth I don’t know, but the clamex connectors are rated at 80Kg of clamping pressure apiece (~175lb) so I’d expect them to hold up pretty well in something like plywood! Not so sure about eg MDF or MFC though. Might make for an interesting test though! 🤔👍
I have the whole shabang from festool, but i have to admit that i like lamelo's idea more, and the best thing about it 's the smaller holes for the hex key , the festool ones are really ugly, especially those plastic caps , that's why i always try to put them in positions that will unable you to see them . But it's too late now , i'm not spending another thousand .
Ikea tend to use relatively low-end cam & dowel fixings; it's a decent enough system, but really geared towards large-scale cnc production, as the jigs are expensive for one-man-band maker/installers. These systems provide a similar knock-down approach, albeit at a price. 👍
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I don't have such fancy machines - heck, I don't even make cabinets most of the time! - and yet I keep watching your videos Peter, because I like your style and in-depth explanations and reasoning.
Thank you! 👍👍
Hi there!
I am a Clamex S fan. They can be used with a regular biscuit joiner. But you might want to check out Scheulenburg. They have connectors that only need a drill. Only drawback are the many pieces like in Festools system.
Regards,
Etna.
@@Etna.
I've got a lamello biscuits and gravy machine. Are you saying it can be used to install the lamello connectors?
We have both systems in our workshop and it comes down two things cost and different ways of working. If only had one budget one machine it be the festool it's just for one way of connection .not say these are cheap machines they are not .I could buy a decent morticer for the price of one machine .the zeta is brillant for carcase work and frame connection .as everything comes down speed over cost rule
Others have mentioned that they have no intention of buying either tool and i fall in that category, and yet i could not stop watching. If i was making cabinets all day as you are i would seriously consider one or other of these. They are awesome bits of kit and I could see how they would pay for themselves in no time. fascinating insight into a range of tools i would love but could never justify/afford. Thanks Peter.
Thanks Andrew! Good to hear you found it interesting, and I completely understand what you say about both tools being out of reach. I’m constantly surprised though, by how many people tell me that they have a Domino for non-professional use! The usual justification seems to be limited workshop-time available, and anything that can speed things up or help with efficiency is a good things. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I agree I think if I was going to make a load of kitchen cabinets or a similar big job I would be all over justifying having one. I just rarely make things like that. It is amazing how tools come more affordable though. When I started wood working there would be no way I could have afforded a table saw. Now I have the DeWalt one like Andy Mac.
I'd never used the Clamex before until yesterday where I've used it extensively for a birch plywood shelving unit I've been making freelance for a company.
I have to say I'm very impressed at the simplicity, accuracy and ease with which the system works. Thing is though, it's eye wateringly expensive so for now, I'll not be getting one of my own. Great though.
Yes, Lamello starts to make Festool look cheap, lol! Great system though, big fan of the clamex in particular. 👍👍
I have the Festool system and used it for the first time this week. It made sense for me since I already had a Domino machine. My only comment, other than this was a great video, is no doubt Festool designed this system for the posts to be removed for shipping. Otherwise, why bother with their system? I removed the posts and re-inserted them and they presented no issue with re-tightening. I wouldn't be concerned about that aspect. If I used these types of connectors as a business, I would definitely go with the Lamelo for all the reasons you said. BTW, so sorry for your loss on the passing of the Queen.
What a great resource you are Peter! I just started milling the lumber for a large wall-to-wall bookshelf installation at a customer's house. I was thinking of using the Festool connectors to assemble the pre-assembled "modules, as there is very little wiggle room side-to-side. Your note about the added width needed for the long peg just saved me a lot of headache from going down that rabbet-hole. Cheers!
Glad to hear it, thank you! If side-to-side wiggle room is an issue, then the Lamello Clamex is my fitting of choice as there’s just the little 5mm nubbin that protrudes - and you can actually trim that off and still get a very strong hold. 👍 The Clamex S connectors are due out next month - they work with a standard biscuit jointer blade - but if you need something sooner then the Peanut 2 connector can be used like a Lamello Divario (?) so it slides into the slot from the front. HTH P
I own prefer to use Lamello Zeta P2 Clamex connectors in conjunction with Domino DF 500 4x20 or 5x30 tenons. This way you can get best combination of strength and versatility for joints. Loosen tenons take all mechanical pressure and Clamex connector provide great clamp pressure between parts with ability to detach on demand.
Thanks, yes, I’ve used them a few time’s now, they work well together. 👍👍
Very interresting Peter. After seeing this video and the points you mentioned I will defenetly say Lamello. Thanks for demostrating the difference between these two systems, it was nice to see in close up how they work.
The Clamex is a awesome connector but the Festool Domino allows you to do narrower joints ie. Rails etc
They both have their place... Nice video...
Exactly. Can’t have just one. 🤷♂️👍
Totally agree! When people compare a biscuit joint and a domino joint; I always describe the biscuit as a loose tounge and the domino as a loose tenon. They both have their benefits, and applications.
I have the Domino 500 and 700 .. I like the 700 connectors but, like you, grabbed a Lamello for the smaller stuff. You'd happily put a bed together with the 700 connectors but I think they're clumsy compared to Lamellos system for things like shelves, etc.
Great explanation Peter! my biggest gripe with those Festool fixings is the size of the hole needed and also the very cheap plastic covers that remind me of a cheap MFI kitchen back in the day or flat pack Ikea furniture. I do love using the dominos and was my main purpose buying the 500. Pretty excited about the Lamello as I managed to find an almost new one yesterday with the Tanos kit inc the Clamex, Tenso and Divario fixings. Best of all its the 50th anniversary model, braggers rights model lol. Looking forward to building my own kitchen using this system.
NiceI 50th anniversary model,is the one I have, Diamond blade is fantastic when you’re working with more abrasive man-made boards! 👍
Very good video Peter. Unbiased and honest. All your findings are spot on. 👍
Cheers Steve! Early days (for us all!) with the Lamello, but the Clamex are clearly a great general-purpose fitting especially for cabinetry, and the Domino Connect certainly has its place if you’re already a Domino user, and particularly for narrower-section stock. Good to have both at our disposal, eh Steve? 😆😂👍👍 👍
Thanks Peter. For assembling bed leg ends to a frame, I wonder which would be better ( strength and creekiness ) over time.
Hmmm. Now that I’m not so sure about. I know the Clamex are rated at ~80Kg per fitting, so they’d probably be OK. I wouldn’t fancy the Domino’s chances - better off with the bigger connect fittings in the DF700 I think! 👍👍
another great video peter, love your style of conversation
Thanks Andrew! 👍
+andrew roberts
It is an amazing system and you can build many things with it. There is a cheaper option but it is not as good as the Lamello system. Knapp connectors are biscuit like in that you cut the slot with a normal biscuit machine and then slide the connector in and it is a knock down system as well.
I’ve noticed you’re creeping up to 40,000 subscribers Peter😀. I read somewhere on the internet (so it must be true) that it is customary for cabinet building / carpenter UA-camrs to giveaway a Lamello Zeta when they hit 40k so don’t forget good sir😀
Well fortunately, I have just such a machine at my disposal, Leo... 😂😂👍
184k and more
Great review Peter. I have a domino and I am currently looking at these fixings. I would much prefer the clamex but I can’t justify the astronomical cost of the hole package that I would need to buy. It’s almost as if companies like Festool and Lamello regard these as luxury tools and try to keep their pricing artificially inflated. When you look at the actual domino fixings, it’s almost as if you could go to IKEA and get a few of those fixings and do the same job…..
Thanks! I agree, the price of the fixings is getting silly. But if you wanted the convenience of the clamex without the cost of the Zeta, then the S20 fittings are a pretty good option and only need a biscuit jointer. I did a video on them a little while back. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks for the information Peter, very much appreciated. I wasn’t aware of the S20 fittings, they look good but I can also see their limitations. I did a search for the video that you mentioned but I couldn’t see it (I think I was looking back to far in history). But by the magic of UA-cam it has just popped up on my feed, it was very helpful.
Excellent vid with awesome imagery - well done again. For me the Festool Domino will get far more done (the Connect system is an extra, an addition) but for it specific purpose then the Lamello wins by quite of a margin. One tool only? Festool Domino. Can justify and afford two tools? Buy the Lamello as well. The Connect system is also more environmentally friendly: most of the system relies on metal whilst the Lamello is mostly plastic...
I have a domino machine and was wondering when they would finally develop a fixing system. Now that it is out, I am generally disappointed with them and find them weak. My partner has a Lamello, and that is what is being used in our workshop combined with domino wooden pegs. The combination gives a very stable and sturdy finished furniture.
I’ve been pondering which I should get, but after this video I’m surely leaning more towards the Lamello. Thanks!😊👍🏾
Thanks! Lamello’s a fine machine, but it’s more of a niche product than the Domino. Domino’s more versatile in eg narrow stock, but for carcass & cabinet construction the Lamello ticks the boxes. 👍👍
@Peter Millard - Thank you Sir. 😊
I agree about the Festool connectors. I like the engineering behind them and the "Trilobite-like" shape of the gripping end is cool (biomimicry!) but for practical purposes the same issues make nervous both in terms of transport but also user end issues. On the surface I like the Lamello approach which is way more conventional. Goes to show the fancier more cerebral approach isn't always the best solution. In fact, one issue in general with the Domino 500 is the lack of a proper grip. It may sound strange but a lot of Festool tools lack surfaces that are grippy where they need to be and ergonomic. It almost feels like they opt for a more minimal look as opposed to proper form following function approach. For example, the 1400 Router on the stick handle has no grippy surface just smooth plastic. Picking it up quickly and feeling the weight of the machine tip forward and down, while, holding onto a smooth surface is not exactly best practice. I enjoy my Festool tools so don't get me wrong but with so many simple oversights I often look at Mafell as still the more user friendly of the two. I just wish here in the US their presence was greater.
Yes, agree about the ergonomics & the lack of ‘grippiness’ of many Festools; no joke as people age, and grips get weaker. I think the ergonomics of the bigger domino is better, and the small one is long overdue for a makeover, I think. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop back when that Core77 article came out they said Festool had two designers and over 20 engineers I believe. One of the designers had been there for many decades while the other was right out of grad school who I guess did a Festool thesis project etc. Anyhow from a design perspective one would hope to have more designers per engineer than that! I have a whole list of easily 3D printed items as simple accessories to make the 500 and some of their other tools more user friendly. Maybe one day I will get around to making some of them. But could someone make a nice solid aluminum mount for the 1400 on the track please? The plastic one with the metal rods doesn't cut it.
It's an impressive bit of kit, the P2, with how it cuts the slot. The price is eye-wateringly expensive though. No doubt for someone in the game though, it'll quite quickly make its investment back in saved time.
Hope so! Keep you posted... 😂😂🤷♂️
def not for the amateur - makes festool look cheap
.
You also forgot about the Festool C 18 cordless drill you need to take that large drill-bit for the hole in the boards face (where the tightening screw emerges for your screwdriver to grab a hold of).
Very well done video. To the point, and you speak quickly enough so I don't have go to 2x speed! Thanks.
Haha, thanks! 👍
the Clamex is a work of genius
For sure each one is not replacing the other one. It looks like the best scenario must have them both
Great video. Thanks for doing this. As a fellow UA-camr, I have to say that you have a wonderful screen presence and style.
Thank you! 🙌
Many thanks for making this video. I'd first seen the Lamello on Joey at kingpost timberworks' channel, and was very fascinated. Great to see the side by side comparison - I think you and Joey might have to split the commission that I'll shortly be paying Lamello.
Haha - I’ll babe sure to take that up with Joey! 🤷♂️👍
Great explanation!. I am thinking to buy one of these machines and considering I still can use dowels I may opt for the Lamelo for the same reasons you mentioned, the festool way seems to carry risk and a lot of messing about once you get to the job inserting all the bits
This is an awful good and honest review Peter. Even a green heart has to get somewhat red sometimes - herein we both agree. A lot of people make reviews but you Peter, nails it and brings everything down to an easy to understand conclusion. 25 mm and easy to ship. I think Festool have to buy the two annoying red companies down south after all - if you can beat them for goodness sakes buy them and paint them green 😜💪❤ Cheers mate 🇩🇰
Haha, thanks Henrik! Always a place in my workshop - and my heart - for the Domino, but the Lamello has a lot of appeal for cabinetry. Look forward to using it in earnest soon. 👍👍
I never thought there would come a day when a festoolian would think, I can't justify the price of a Lamello Machine. Haha. How things have changed.
I've always loved Lamello - they make festool seem cheap... 👍😂
Lamello makes quality stuff. I have a Lamello biscuit joiner, in the hand it feels like it's a step above any of my festool tools.
I never leave the tenons in. They don't need to be screwed in firmly to work. I know it's counter intuitive. The tightness of the join comes from the set screw correctly positioning itself in the hollow side of the tenon which has the effect of pulling the tenon slightly up and creates the needed tension.
Politely disagree. I was borderline paranoid about over tightening them when I first had them, and as a result the pins weren’t driven fully home, and the joint didn’t pull right. In my experience they have to be driven in fully. 🤷♂️👍
Politely disagree. I was borderline paranoid about over tightening them when I first had them, and as a result the pins weren’t driven fully home, and the joint didn’t pull right. In my experience they have to be driven in fully. 🤷♂️👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Fair enough.
@@10MinuteWorkshop I overtightened one once and had it snap, I agree with Muru Roa on this.
As a fellow festoolian. I’ve played with festool connectors, still prefer to glue regular dominos whenever possible, never played with lamello.
Question? From what I gather here it’s almost same as biscuit jointer cut style.
And the way lamello fixes itself to material is by applying pressure towards skinny sides of board. Potentially splitting the board? As with festool, it always applies pressure towards small sides of mortise (along the length of material) meaning it’ll almost never fail?
Which also tells me it’ll still be stronger connection in stuff that is skinnier then 3/4” or 25mm in thickness. Or when you work with laminated plywood? Not mdf
What’s your take on the strength of the connectors?
The Lamello connectors are immensely strong - the Clamex apply 80 kilos of pressure per fitting - so yes, just like with dominos there’s the potential for the material to split of pressure is applied in a way that the joint is stressed eg racking a corner joint, especially in eg MDF. But in practice this has never been an issue as once the backs are fitted to a carcass the structure is pretty ridgid 👍
Being on the Festool fb group I know the lamello has won this war 😂. Haven’t used one, but neither have I even bought domino connectors for my df500 to try out yet. The only improvement for the lamello that’s been raised is...reference pins and I think a slight price drop, but why would they when they know it’s the better machine for a similar job. Great video as always, eagerly awaiting the next cnc video though 😉🙂👍🏻
Thanks! The CNC has - literally - been put to one side while I get on with some work stuff, but I'll have it finished before too long... 👍
Nice side by side comparison, mate. 👍
Andy over on Manor Wood did a strength test on the Lamellos a few months back, and man they are surprisingly strong.
I think he may have bent a clamp trying to break a joint...
Cheers Bill!. The clamex are almost stupidly strong, yes. 👍
I was wondering how strong they are, as biscuits are far weaker than Dominos.
Good comparison video Peter. Lamello wins hands down in my opinion .
Thanks! Don’t disagree, but the Domino is so versatile, especially on narrow stock. Room for both, I think! 🤷♂️👍
I found this video quite helpful, thank you!
Would either of those systems be suitable to use without additional wood glue? For example on floating walnut nightstands.
Yes, they’re both designed to be used ‘dry’. 👍
I’ve long owned a lamelo machine love it it was a expense to purchase but I cannot remember how many times I’ve used it over the last forty years I’m not opposed to knock down hardware but there constantly remains the problem on hiding the fasteners i e looked at the domino machine and questioned how much I’ll use it but I’m sure I’ll convince
The Festool solution leaves holes that look remarkably like those on Ikea furniture. Not a huge selling feature to a client whose just forked out several thousand for fitted units. Just sayin ....
Yep - one of the reasons I haven’t used it much. 👍
+Alan Morris
Most customers would not even notice that they are there to be honest. Woodworkers and crafts people sometimes do not realize that the average customer is not so switched on to small details like that.
I'd say for most fitted units the holes would be on the outside so they will never be seen. Both tools have great benefits. The lamello definitely wins in the knockdown department. Where the Domino is only a passing grade. I think the reverse is true for structural connections. The domino's ability to replace traditional mortice and tenons and with such incredible strength is it's most significant benefit. I wouldn't even trust the 14mm lamello biscuits to do the same.
Good explanation there Pete , I don't think I'll ever be using either system, but from an engineering point of view I was interested in how they work... & I always drop in to give yer vids a like ... 😎👍☘
Haha, thanks Peter! 👍👍
Lamelo seems far more quicker and better looking. If i had the money i would buy it
It's funny you would post this today, I was at the Festool roadshow on wednesday morning and saw this. It was very impressive. But the domino is way out of my price range at the moment. Let alone buying the fittings kit :P
Peter has a second-hand one he might sell you! 😉
Sadly I couldn't afford any price right now. Otherwise I would take him up on that :)
@@MrMasterbiker I too have been through rough patches in my life, particularly financially. I hope things pick up. Good luck! 👍
Thank you!
Good video Peter...I would not say there is a winner......at least Festool makes again stronger joints so they stay true to their ground (although in mdf it probably does not make a lot of difference) That being said Lamello is a quick/easy and quality solution in a lot (the majority) of situations.
Thanks Erik. I agree, no real winner, though the clamex is undoubtedly the more elegant solution, the Domino connector will fit in much narrower stock. So you have any reference to the relative strength of the connector system? I searched quite a bit before I made the video and couldn’t find anything about the holding/ clamping force it applies. The clamex apply 80Kg of clamping force, just FYI. I’m certainly glad to have both options for the work I do. 👍👍
Great comparison & information. Thank you!
Pleasure, thanks! 👍
The Lamelo is a stunning looking but of kit. Looks like a huge time saver too. Love it...
Blue point bit driver Peter? Not been near the dreaded Snap On can have you....🤣🤣🤣🤣
No, that bluepoint is the closest I’m getting... 😬👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop probably best... I still have all my old bits... and the wallet dent to prove it... 🤣🤣
I have both. I would say I feel the Domino connectors are a bit more substantial I have used them in much larger pieces where they are a significant part of the structural integrity of the piece. I've only just got the lamello and absolutely love the tenso for mitres it's so simple and no clamps necessary just the connectors and a bit of glue. But I don't think I would trust the clamex if there were too be a lot of lateral force placed on the connector. It just doesn't seem as strong as the Domino connectors.
They both have their place, and the domino connectors can be used in eg narrow stock, where the Clamex is much more useful for sheet materials. I’ve never had an issue with either fitting, but the connectors for the DF500 feel like much more of an afterthought compared with eg the connectors for the XL. 👍👍
Just rewatched this video after listening to your discussion with Andy on “measuring up” and you can really see how much time the lamello must save you.
Using it for the first time on a job today. So far, so good 👍👍
How did it go? How much time do you think it saved compared to the festool?
@@MrBishbashbosh2012 Still on it. Taking it slow and steady as I'm breaking the cardinal rule and using a new tool on a job. I'll have a proper comparison of the two systems out in a little while. 👍
Sounds good, I look forward to it.
Thanks Peter, that's made my mind up. I think when I saw you previous vid that Lamello was taking the biscuit, so to speak. The king is dead ......
I think it’s more nuanced than that tbh,; having spent a week or so working on very narrow section stock, I think the Domino is a more flexible system overall- it the Lamello wins hands down did the KD fittings and cabinet/carcass construction. Not an either/or decision, I think. 🤷♂️👍
Thank you for sharing this, the Lamelo looks good but I won't be buying one as I don't need one but if if I was building furniture for a living would definitely go with it
You better ask for the high price because buying the consumables of the zeta can cost you an arm or a leg ...
Thank's Peter for another good insight into the two systems, unfortunately as a hobby woodworker both are way out of my price range, the only price I've seen for the Lamelo is £1350.
Cheers Steve. If you shop around a little you can get the Lamello a bit cheaper, but yes, it’s getting on for twice the price of the Domino. 🤷♂️
I think it bears mentioning that whilst Lamello's connection is a better system in your opinion (I don't have a foot in either camp) if you had neither tool - the Domino or the Zeta, surely one would buy the Domino. Despite the connection system not being quite as useful, the Domino is a vastly more useful tool. Can you imagine running your shop without it and what tool do you remain to pick up more often?
Yes, indeed: this video was - as per the title - specifically about these connectors. I think the Domino is a more versatile tool for general use, but the Lamello wins for sheets goods/ cabinets/ carcasses.
Very concise content. Good job.
Thank you! 👍
25mm either side=50mm in my book Peter! Still it's Friday,end of week,may let you off again!😀👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Fit one side, move carcass.
@@bobuk5722 but then all the weight is hanging off the fittings on one side!
Yep, I’m a fit one side ata a time man, myself 🤷♂️👍
The Zeta for me. It's a great tool!
I think the connect still,has a place, but the clamex are excellent 👍👍
I think it's quite clear that the Clamex is the superior product, like you say, it looks as though the Domino Connect was a complete afterthought. And that cover for the hole, it's atrocious!
It makes the work look so cheap!
I think what we need now is for Andy to do some strength tests to see which is stronger!
Haha, he only does wallplugs these days. 😂
@@10MinuteWorkshop He's got to fulfil those Fischer sponsorship terms! 😂
@@animationcreations42
He is free to do as he pleases. Out of curiosity do you work or are you sponsored by an opposing businesses? (you are not part of an anti marketing team?)
I am planning to use the Scheulenburg Connector with bei Mafel Dowler
Zeta P2 is the King :) Dominoes can clean his shoes: P
I know is in Polish but... ua-cam.com/video/dujNX37dVVU/v-deo.html 😊
The original knockdown furniture was campaign furniture. For a long time I have liked the aesthetic and really been in awe of the skill of the builders. It reached its best at the height of the Empire. Sorry Peter absolutely no mdf or dominoes and entirely done by hand. Reasonable wiki entry [it was used by the Egyptians (who probably took the idea from someone else)] but not correct in claiming it as a Roman invention. If anyone decides to do a modern project video I would love to see it.
There is a comment from someone with a son in the military I will try to post a more specific post in reply to that.
An interesting pair of couplings but is the metal option stronger than the plastic one? Clearly the simplicity and size of the Lamello is far preferred but it does appear to remove more material to fit. Also, how do the materials costs compare, temporarily ignoring the time element? Another engrossing video though, thanks!
Thanks! I haven’t been able to find any information on the strength of the Domino connectors, but the Clamex exert 80Kg of clamping pressure so I’d expect them plenty strong for the kind of cabinetry applications I’ll be using them for. You make an interesting point about the material removed, but while the Lamello may take more away, the forces are spread across the whole of the fitting (both sides) whereas the domino connect seems more reliant on one half of the fitting getting its elbows out. Fittings are ~£1.60 (domino) vs ~£1.20 (lamello) though bulk buying may reduce this a little. 👍
Great video as always but... I’m confused. What’s preventing you from putting the tenons in the edge vs the face? You’re just changing boards where you drill the mortises and the hole for the nut
Thanks! That’s just not how they were designed to be used, and if you wanted to try it you’d need to be making carcasses from much thicker boards as the connectors are too large for the standard 18mm. 👍👍
I just want to know how the lamello is able to cut that slot with the relief cuts on the sides. You plunge it in, right? How does it not make the entire slot that same size? Is it moving the blade up and down when you get to full depth?
See the previous video on the Lamello #325 - you even get a slo-mo of the cutter in action 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Oh cool. Thanks. I'll check that out.
nice review, I been using the XL connector a fair bit and really like them ... how would the festool connector work in particule board type panels (19mm) ?
Thanks! I've never used them in particleboard, but I'd expect them to be fine; used them in MDF without any problems. 👍
If I was smart enough to invent these joiners, the Festool would be Mark I and the Lamello Mark II. The higher the Mark the better the device. So now I know another tool that I have no use for. Got to go now, got to look on eBay and Amazon for the best price on the Lamello.
Hi Peter, Great channel thanks for all your effort you put in to produce such good content.
A question for you, what is the hinged mechanism you have on your crosscut track, i don't know if you have produced a video that covers this?
Many thanks
Martyn
Hi Martyn and thanks! The hinged rail is part of the Festool MFT (Multi Function Table) that I have - I talk it in videos #182 and #183 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks Peter i will check out the videos 😁
Great video as always thanks ,haven't saw this asked yet. so if you were to recommend buying the lamello or festool domino if you had neither to begin with, with your knowledge now for overall usage which would you pick?
That’s such a tough question - though one I’ve touched on in the podcast. For the bulk of the work I do, then I think the Lamello would be the better choice, though I think the versatility of the Domino makes it a better general-purpose machine. I’m glad I have both, let’s say. 🤷♂️👍
Peter Millard well, they’re really for different situations. The Lamello is great for knockdown furniture, but the domino is good for glued up assembly, and can be used for knockdown with the connector kit. Can the lamello be used for glued connectors too?
Hi Peter!
Great video and great explanation on pros and cons.
I have just received the domino connectors set and I was wondering if I could use it with chipboard (melamine) panels.
I think I saw a demonstration with the Lamello Clamex but cannot recall a single demo with a Festool Domino connector.
Would that be possible?
Thanks Harris! I think a lot would depend on the chipboard - if it’s a good quality MFC e.g. Egger then you’d, shouldn’t be a problem at all. I’d run some tests before using it on a job though! 👍👍
Handy video.. as usual 👍👍
Very nearly sold on the Lamello. Will you be doing a video on the different Lamello connectors soon?
👍
Thanks! IfI find myself using any others I'll certainly do something, but I think the Tenso and Clamex will cover an awful lot of situations. 👍
For installing into a tight space, comparing these two systems, Lamello seems to require only 4-5mm spacing to get your pieces into place. Is there another Lamello that requires even less space? Thanks for the video!
Yes, that’s the gist of it. If you need less space then one thing you can do is to remove the nubbins on the Clamex and just rely on the pivoting tongue. Obvs. you have less lateral strength, but they’re still very strong. An alternative may be something like the divario fittings, but they’re a different animal. 👍
Pete excellent video will the clamex2 products work with any other biscuit tools?
Thanks! These Clamex connectors will only work with the Zeta, but I believe there are other fittings that will work with a regular biscuit slot, though my understanding is that they need to be screwed in place. 👍
Very informative, i always thought the domino and zeta p did the same job, but the difference is quite clear. Why do you use that extra fence on the zeta p? Or is it part of the tool? I just own a lamello classic x
Thanks! The extra fence is to add stability when you’re making a cut into the face of the board, - it gives a guaranteed 90 degrees 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop ok, good to know, thanks Peter!
Regarding transport of panels. Could you just remove the Festool pegs and refit them on-site? That would get them out of the way and remove the danger of bending/breaking one. Another question. How does the Lamello cutter make that shaped slot? Does it move up and down to put the under cuts in?
As said in the video, the pegs would need to refit exactly to ensure a solid fit, and I’m not convinced they would. Re the Lamello, see video #325 for a slo-mo of the action. 👍
I thought you meant the whole thing, not just the protruding part.
I’m a bit of a Festool fan but on this occasion I think that Lamello have a cheaper and more elegant solution.
Yes - although the price difference between the Domino and Zeta machines would buy you around 1700 Domino connectors! 🤷♂️👍
I would like to know what the strength is of those connectors if you join two sheets of plywood together and put weight on top of the seams
Festool don’t publish load ratings, it the Clamex are almost stupidly strong - around 80Kg per fitting.
@@10MinuteWorkshop I'm trying to decide if joining it with a climax would be better than pocket holes essentially two shelves butted together
Seems like the festool connectors would be significantly stronger, which may or may not be relevant depending on the application.
The Clamex are almost stupidly strong - something like 70Kg per fitting. Festool don’t publish load ratings, unfortunately. 🤷♂️👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Damn. That's a lot for those little nubbins!
The little nubbins just locate the fitting, the strength comes for the cam-shaped lock that tightens in the slot. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Ahh, I see. Thanks for the clarification! I'll just stick with my domino, but I don't do much cabinet work, so really no need for knock down fittings. Interesting video nonetheless. Thanks again!
I guessing the 25mm extra than the Lamello is more of a concern with shelving type joints rather than top or base joints as they can literally be on top of the sides, I am rushing so this might not make sense
Makes perfect sense - though I always set my top/base between the sides of the carcass 👍
That was very helpful, thank you
Peter, i wish to make a long entertainment unit that will require a mdf or plywood benchtop longer than available stock. Would you recommend either of these to join lengths end to end? Regards, Jeff
Thanks Jeff! Either would be fine, but my preference would be for the Lamello Clamex. 👍👍
Thanks
It seems like the festool connect would provide more strength, what is your opinion on the strength of both options?
The Clamex is almost ridiculously strong. I’d have no qualms about using either, in that regard. 👍
Hi Peter, did you give any consideration to tiga tool domino connectors. They look far simpler than festool. Never tried but I would be interested to see your take on them:)
Great channel, thanks for all work on the content I know its massive much appreciated.
Hi Mateusz , and thanks! I had a look at them back when they were called ‘Dominofix’ and though they’re a neater system than the ‘official’ domino connectors - and they were available for the df500 before them too - I just didn’t like the idea of needing to screw everything together tbh. Never managed to get my hands on any, so I don’t know how strong they were in reality. 🤷♂️👍👍
Peter, Great Stuff, what MDF is that your using?
Medite MR MDF, always 👍👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks
I currently use biscuits and screws for my carcasses, so may be missing something here. Looking to change to one of these systems so any advice appreciated.
If you are working in a tight space why can’t you make up the carcass, then slide it into the alcove. Then there’s no issue if the connectors stick out by 25-50mm before assembly. Also, can you not put the access holes on the exterior of the cabinet, so they are hidden when fitted, or does the Festool setup not allow you to do that?
Thanks.
Sometimes you have to build something in situ - where access is too tight to get to get a fully assembled carcass in, for example - and not having to allow for the spike on the connect can make all the difference. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks for the reply. I've always found that pre-assembling helps when getting units into tight spaces. It sounds like you have a great deal of experience with these things, so will wait until I hit the problem before I decide if I'm right or wrong!
Another reason to consider lamelo is thats its also now available in cordless. I don't think the domino is.
Its a pity the lamelo doesn't have the spring stops like the domino
I am looking to buy the domino DF 500 for it's versatility. I was wondering what that accessory you have attached to the base of the machine is called? And where about I could purchase one?
Is it the Seneca Domiplate?
It is. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop great, thanks!
Love your shirt.
Interesting video - thank you.
Hi Peter, interesting comparison, clearly the Lamello wins on simplicity of implementation. Would the joint and by extension the carcass being built be as strong as if it was done using the domino system?
Hiya. Yes, the Clamex in particular are almost ridiculously strong. No issues there at all. 👍
Do you leave the fittings out until after painting? Just dry fit with regular dominos? What about for the Lamello?
Yes for the domino connect, as for the lamello, almost certaoinly, but if you've seen my videos then you've aseen every joint I've made with it, lol! I'll know more when I use it more. 👍
Both look way better then the Hafele Ixconnect spreading connector. Those a garbage, very fragile and little holding power.
Could you use the lamello to attach face frames to the cabinet? How much are the lamello connectors compared to the domino connectors? I like that lamello. I think I would buy that over the domino
Yes, easily. The fittings in this video are ~£1.60 a set for the Domino, and ~£1.20 for the Lamello.👍
Have you ever used a finisher nailer with a bit of glue rebating the bac kof the cab into the frame. I build boxes all day none have ever failed was in a kitchen we built 17 years ago and all is good. I'm looking for a system to build doors but I see no reason for this system for this application.
Very good !!! Nice video and explication!!! 👍👍👍
Thanks! 👍👍
Do you add glue to the joints before final assembly at the client's house? Assuming you don't want to take them apart ever again.
Yes. In that instance I’m using the KD fittings as permanently fitted clamps. 👍👍
You say that you didn’t like the fact that the domino connection sticks out 25mm making it not a snug fit in say an alcove. Don’t forget you would have the other side the same so the unit would be about 50mm narrower overall. Or am I missing something.
I'd generally fit one side, then the other, so you'd need the width of the completed piece, plus 25mm. 👍
Thanks!
Thank you! 🙌👍
Hi
I see you used MDF how much force would it take to pull the joints apart because it seem that you fix both sides one one set but no the other you just seem to slot one side in the slot and the other you drill whole to join together if you get what I mean
I don’t know wrt the Domino connect, but the clamex needs 80Kg, so plenty strong. 👍
Are the domino connectors strong enough for a bed frame?
The larger ones, yes, but I wouldn’t use these smaller ones, personally, no.
Where did you get the black stop from that you use as the fence for referencing? Many thanks
Hi. Sorry, not sure which ‘black stop’ you mean?? Was it on the Domino at 4:54? That’s a Domino-plate from Seneca woodworking - takes away any fence drift, and gives additional support. 👍 Domi-plate UK: amzn.to/2PffzFE (US: amzn.to/2QU1mi9)
That’s it, thank you
Good comparison Peter. I think both systems are helpful but here are two more and they are slightly less refined but get the job done.
Someone already mentioned Scheulenburg. Their system looks good. They were mentioned by someone else in a reply. The company is actually V.M.V. Scheulenburg, www.vmv-owl.de/downloads.html
Another company is U.S. company with a basic system that uses a cross dowel jig and cross dowels to put furniture together. You only need the cross dowel jig, a drill with the appropriate bit and cross dowels and connectors
www.woodpeck.com/woodpeckers-universal-cross-dowel-jig-3052.html
Ron
Thanks Ron! Yes, there are lots of KD style fittings, but I’ve never found anything with the speed and convenience of the Lamello. 👍👍
+Ron H
Scheulenburg system would be more suited to CNC as alignment would be an issue when using just a hand drill.
Manual jigs for dowels are great for high end furniture as they can be a little bit slow but that is ok on more premium products but for every day quality furniture it would probably be too slow. Reason for this is that dowels require alignment.
Peter Millard. Thanks Peter. I have been thinking about getting a Lamello for some time now but have held off as I have a domino.and like you I think the Festool connect system is a bit too fussy with too many components. Something I have been trying on my personal furniture as a test in flat pack style items is making the domino mortise in the horizontal and vertical piece as usual and then running a screw in from the side, through the horizontal upper and lower and the vertical piece and through the domino and a 1/2 or beyond the domino. So far they have held up fine. And if after knocking them down and back together several times the hole for the screw wears out I can re-drill the hole, remove the domino and glue a dowel in the hole, re-drill it, then reinsert the domino and screw It back together. This is fine for my personal items that I’m testing this on but wouldn’t do this on a clients furniture.
Do you think any of the Lamello knock down fasteners would be strong enough on a cabinet that is hanging on the wall and has say 150 to 200 pounds of items in it?
Obviously on a base style cabinet it would be plenty strong.
Sorry for such a long winded conversation...
Ron
bighand69 Thanks for the information bighand69.
Ron H Hi Ron. That’s an interesting one, with a wall-hung cabinet. In truth I don’t know, but the clamex connectors are rated at 80Kg of clamping pressure apiece (~175lb) so I’d expect them to hold up pretty well in something like plywood! Not so sure about eg MDF or MFC though. Might make for an interesting test though! 🤔👍
I have the whole shabang from festool, but i have to admit that i like lamelo's idea more, and the best thing about it 's the smaller holes for the hex key , the festool ones are really ugly, especially those plastic caps , that's why i always try to put them in positions that will unable you to see them . But it's too late now , i'm not spending another thousand .
Yeah, that’s what I said. And then I did... 🤷♂️. Clamex is such a great connector, but there’s always space for a domino 👍👍
I wonder how the plastic lamellos hold up to time.
They’ll hold up long enough that none of us will need to worry about it. 👍
This is the way IKEA dose it , GREAT!!!!
Ikea tend to use relatively low-end cam & dowel fixings; it's a decent enough system, but really geared towards large-scale cnc production, as the jigs are expensive for one-man-band maker/installers. These systems provide a similar knock-down approach, albeit at a price. 👍