Thanks for the video man, I always love to see people's interpretations of my creations. Just a few points I want to add: I think the reloading mechanics fits Doom because of the Super Shotgun. The Vanilla SSG is the best weapon in the game because it reloads, because being able to reduce the player's rate of fire allows you to unleash a more powerful and more satisfying shot. It adds more depth to the combat than just holding the M1 button. If you look at the Quake's shotguns, you will notice they are not nearly as good as Doom's. What I did, was to expand this concept to all other guns in the game, make them have the same depth and high risk/reward of the Super Shotgun. And I think it worked.
Indeed, one of the many reasons I love BD is that it makes gunplay a lot more satisfying for me than the vanilla weapons. Besides giving all of them more punch in general (and adding an additional layer of tactics with the reloads), I also like the balance changes that the mod brings to the table. Instead of having an arsenal consisting merely of guns with progressively higher DPS (that would essentially render weapons obtained earlier in the campaign obsolete, unless you run out of ammo for the higher-tier guns), most weapons in BD have their own pros, cons and appropriate situational uses (with the various weapons suited to different engagement distances and enemy types). I understand that this change in gunplay might stray too far from the classic Doom combat logic, but it's exactly because of this that the mod offers both a Classic arsenal setting, and a no-reload switch as well. Maybe the only gripe I have with the arsenal in v21 is that some of the newer weapons feel redundant. I mean, the SMG, the Grenade Launcher and the Heavy Machinegun are all nasty and nice to use, it's just that I don't really see the point of them being added to the arsenal. The pistol, the AR and the minigun could already be used to clean up fodder demons (so there was no need for an extra SMG in this category, even if I like its rapid fire and dual-wielding capability), the frag grenades have been already there for larger groups of enemies before the Grenade Launcher, while the heavy machinegun is currently a strange mixture of the minigun, the assault rifle and the hand grenades - I like using it if I have no other mid-range solution in my arsenal, but it's not the weapon I would use if I have other alternatives available. As far as I remember, you mentioned on Twitter that for BD v22, you would streamline the arsenal, probably because of the exact same reasons (and with the current weapons remaining available in a separate weapon pack). Is this still your plan?
I would agree. I never really understood the idea of not putting ads/reload to keep the game fast. Being able to dip in and out of cover is as much of a necessity in doom vanilla as it is in Brutal Doom.
This was an observation I made long ago myself, and while I understand your reasoning, to my taste, it takes away from the "specialness" of the SSG to have every weapon reload. When every gun can just keep firing like a machine gun and then suddenly you have one gun that fires with such a big, bassy THUMP, and then takes a couple of seconds to reload, it kind of makes you say "Whoa, that's different." While I understand and respect the mission statement and accomplishments of Brutal DOOM, there are aspects of its design that I personally would have approached differently, and the mod simply isn't to my taste. I wouldn't consider myself a "hater," though I may jokingly scoff at those who play anything other than vanilla DOOM on a period-accurate DOS machine. The "love it or hate it" attitude toward mods like this that radically alter the game is an unnecessary polarization. I can respect Brutal DOOM without liking it.
I personally see weapons in the original games as something similar to different moves in a fighting game. Some moves have alot of recovery frames like shotguns have but are powerful, while some are basically much weaker has very fast recovery like the chaingun. And some very powerful moves like bfg has also alot of startup frames. It is a system that works great with variety of the monsters you face and creates variety of situations where you need right weapon for the right situation, just like in fighting game you need the right move for the situation created by your opponent. Making all weapons more high risk and high reward with reloading removes variety from the original weapon roster and this causes many of the weapons to have more overlapping uses and roles.
Also i find that reload actually allows you to survive alot longer since its a natural feature that paces you which allows for more time for impfighting, thinking, and depending on your addons; regenrate health.
One undeniable fact about Brutal Doom is that despite all it adds, it keeps the spirit of the vanilla game intact. "Doom, but Doomier" or something like that.
His arguments as for why BD sucked were absolutely piss poor. He dislikes the reloading and the new weapons are "useless". Uhm don't use them then? He really comes off as an arrogant douchebag. Is he a troll?
I first played doom in 97. By 2000 I had played tons of shooters. Brutal Doom gave me that feeling I first had again. How rare it is to capture that feeling of nostalgia and a excitement of something new is underrated. For that alone, I absolutely love brutal Doom. And tbh, I kinda want to credit BD with the return of the boomer Shooter.
Good ol' Sergeant put Brutal Fate even on hold to make some "finishing?" touches to Brutal DooM. I have seen lots of negativity of BD but i personally loved it. The chunky pixel gore and tons of new death animations for each monster is just pure dedication he didn't have to put his blood sweat and tears in this project but he still did. I wish him the best of luck in his commercial game and hope he got some nasty surprises for the future :)
Great video. BD was the mod that first introduced me into classic doom modding. I dont play it that often nowadays but its still some good fun. I've never understood the criticism for mods "adding elements that were not in the original game". When that's kinda the entire point of modding a game in some ways.
im a 15 year old whos favorite game of all time is doom one and 2, i played both before, and bacuse i grew up with very advanced video game tech, it never a pealed to me. I them found brutal doom, i loaded it into GZ doom, and for four and a half years now, doom has been my favorite game every. and i credit that to brutal doom
Ironically a lot of boomers were in favour of rear sights to provide better visibly when acquiring the enemy. I think it was the WW2 inspired tactical squad based title Hidden & Dangerous that first used iron-sights.
The reason most people denounce Brutal Doom is simply because they dislike SgtMarkIV for things he did a very long time ago at this point, so they throw shit at his mod and act like it's the worst mod ever when they all know it's one of the most important and best mods for Doom. Not THE best or most important but it is up there and rightfully so.
My personal favorite mod of all time is Eviternity on Doom Retro, but there are a lot. Doom the way Id Did, Brutal Wolfenstein, the old Alien TC, Scythe, Shrine, Simon's Destiny, and Back to Saturn X just off the top of my head.
One of my favorite things is how weapons don't effectively get replaced by newer weapons. The standard rifle is always useful. In Vanilla DOOM, I'm only ever using the pistol because I have no choice. Once I have the shotgun and chaingun, there's no reason to ever go back to it. Pistol might not be the best gun in Brutal DOOM, but if there's that one demon that survived the rocket blast or whatever, whip it out and conserve the better ammo for later. And the mod is hilariously violent which I've found deeply satisfying over the years
BD and Complex Doom/Clusterfuck/God Complex are my favorite mods. It seems that a lot of people that knock BD have subjective criticisms about it. It's very well made and presented and I hope Sgt MKIV keeps making improvements
My biggest problem with the attitudes surrounding BD is that there have probably been loads of people who got into doom through it, only to be met with outright hostility when they get to the main doom community. Yeah, I get that they need to learn the etiquette and stop complaining when maps aren’t compatible with BD, but the amount of new players we’ve scared off is probably insane.
@@bigsauce1116 everyone who enjoys classic doom should care. Every single person we scare off is a person who could have made the next groundbreaking doom mod
I've been playing Doom/Doom II .wads with GZDoom & Brutal Doom almost exclusively this year. Somehow hadn't heard of Eviternity until I watched this. Holy crap, is it impressive! Thanks for that.
Eviternity is probably my favorite "pure experience" mod. The map design is so good, albeit it gets really, really brutal towards the end. Definitely worth playing. He's mapping for Prodeus now, and that game is phenomenal.
Absolutely brutal. Map 32 is a real asskicker. I've seen some impressive curved surfaces, geometric details and animated textures in a few Doom maps, but none on the level that you find in Eviternity. There's also some very memorable music in there, particularly within the Icy Castles chapter. Prodeus does look nice, but it doesn't have that insane movement speed of Doom. The gradual descent into walking simulators is why I decided to devote all my gaming time to only Doom for the time being. That, and all the free content from so many amazing people.
Man, i played vanilla doom for a looong time, and to me Brutal Doom made the experience of playing doom better, it felt like a proper improvement over the original game, and i loved it, even started a channel a while ago doing stage tutorials using it, it's a lot satisfying to play this, and i would even say it makes the game even more frenetic and fast, so to me it was a very positive experience. Now i did make myself the personal challenge to first close the expansions first in vanilla to then move to a BD playthrough, and i loved the experience. Great review you have here mate, you brought some very good arguments to the table and i agree, there is a lot of unnecessary hate around this mod, and i would say one stupid reason is the old "because it's popular" stuff, sometimes it is deserved, but this is definitely a not deserved one for sure.
Interesting video. I grew up with doom, and brutal doom for me always felt "to much". Reloading, ads etc made it feel less like doom and more like any generic fps. This video has given me another insight to the way the mod treats doom. Making me want to give it another shot. Thanks!
Definitely do, though I can understand how it might be overwhelming. It's definitely a departure from the vanilla experience, but I have always felt that the changes were additive rather than detrimental. Especially as of v21.
The only whinge I have is there is too much gore too soon, so you get desensitized far too quickly. This is perhaps a bit of a shortcoming to extreme mods, it has impact but it gets tired too fast.
You can put on purist rules so there isn't reloading. I grew up with half life, and most I'd what is added modern shooter wise is really about as deep as source games go.
I really liked the insight you gave for the deep satisfying nature of what original Doom games wanted to be and what BD also setted out to be: About satisfying the visceral need for violence. The gore and transgression goes far back as the original game, and I remember for example how people wanted to crucify SgtMark for the whole real gore idea when the hanging corpses of the original were made from pictures of Mussolini and his wife being killed... it may be exagerated and over the top for some, but that's what the original at the end wanted to be. As a actual doom modder that got into because of BD I'm glad of seeing someone asking for respect for this mod because of all the toxicity I've seen from purists and other modding communities towards newcomers who ask for BD related content, and now that I'm working on a mod using BD as base for gore and stuff that wants to enhance even more the things you emphazised, it really makes me feel grateful that this mod exists. It spawned a lot of creativity from a lot of people and I wish even more people could get and learn a lot of amazing stuff like I did. Great video
BD is the best. It's an enhancement that doesn't go overboard (like Project Brutality does). I got so used to it that I really miss some of its features when playing classic Doom. Love Brutal Doom Power Fantasy too.
What? PB have the same exatly ammount of weapons, as the Brutal Doom. And have much better reloading animations, weapon sprites and more interesting and challenging monsters
@@lilyschrodingy3600 BD: Axe, pistol, revolver, autoshotgun, shotgun, supershotgun, rifle, machine gun, minigun, rocket launcher, grenade launcher, plasmagun, railgun, bfg9000, unmaker, grenade, flamethrower. PB: Axe, pistol, revolver, desert eagle, shotgun, autoshotgun, supershotgun, rifle, machine gun, minigun, rocket launcher, grenade launcher, plasmagun, freezer rifle, railgun, bfg9000, unmaker, grenade, flamethrower. See? Exactly the nearly same ammount, but PB is much more better in balance, each weapon really has its sense, all animations new and fresh. Actually the Brutal Doom is just like the very old mod, the only thing it wins over PB - is multiplayer and Zandronum compatibility. New Project Brutality - is the new Brutal Doom, also the Zandronum port is in work.
@@42ccb >Handcannon Revolver >Martian Raptor Automag >DMR >Carbine >Super GL >Quadshotgun >HDMR >Nailgun >M2 Lightning Gun >Black Hole Generator >Demon Tech Rifle That's not even counting some of the upgrades for the weapons you mentioned. Again, you must be TRIPPING BALLS if you think PB has anywhere near the amount of weapons BD has. "the only thing it wins over PB - is multiplayer and Zandronum compatibility" PB's blood and gore system is FAR INFERIOR from Brutal Doom's just so you know, especially with the current v22.
I second that, just the expanded arsenal and loads of new custom monsters make it worthwhile. To those who haven't tried it know this, if you think Archviles are a pain in the ass to deal with, wait till you encounter a Flesh Wizard or a Paladin. Cyberdemons and Spider Masterminds are pretty easy, that's until you encounter an Annihilator or Devastator. Yeah the BFG is cool but try the Chaingun BFG, Black Hole generator and Demontech rifle.
While as a kid Doom was fascinating - I remember going to a friend's house but not because I was interested in doing anything with him but just because he had Doom 2 on his family PC - by adulthood I had lost interest in it and it was just another old outdated game. Brutal Doom for me however blew me away, and it revived, restored and renewed Doom and gave it years more life. All the "feature creep" added depth and sophistication to expand a game that was pretty much solved. As for why some people hate the mod, I think a lot of it is simply due to snobbery. Brutal Doom is popular, Brutal Doom is widespread, therefore Brutal Doom lacks obscure hipster cred. Complaints about Sgt_Mark_IV's past behaviour are just insincere cover for the actual, much more petty and petulant reason for their resentment - most people who bring it up don't even know the actual particulars, it was just told to them "he did a rayciss" and that gets endlessly repeated by the Twitterati because there's no statute of limitations on the internet. Brutal Doom is amazing, and keep at it Sgt_Mk_IV, looking forward to the final version!
I love the brutal doom atmosphere, it is so well captured imo (talking about extermination day in particular). Also the choice of music, it makes a lot, you truly feel badass, as you should.
Anyone Love or Hate SgtMarkIV all they want, but nobody can deny he revolutionized Doom95 in ways even John Carmack and John Romero were impressed at. SgtMarkIV gave Doom95 the shot of Adrenaline and Steroids it needed to say the great honored godfather of modern 3D games was still the best even after so many years. Personally, I think too many purists have tried to spoil the efforts to modernize Doom95 to what Brutal Doom offers. Why be stuck in the past? Brutal Doom is still Doom...
Well said. Glad people are recognizing this. To me, it's a really simple set of reasons why Brutal Doom breathes so much life into classic Doom. Classic Doom already has a really beautiful balance to it, which Brutal Doom hones and improves on, regardless of all the blood and gore. 1. Everything is faster - enemies and projectiles. If you are experienced playing Doom, the action becomes more frenetic, more tense, more engaging. This is a really important fundamental shift in BD that didn't get too much of a look in this video. 2. Everything is more lethal - your weapons and your enemies. As I see it Doom is like a first-person shmup. There are two rules: hit the enemy as hard as possible (prioritizing targets), and do so while you do your best not to get hit yourself. It's just more fun when you CAN hit harder, and when the stakes over avoiding damage have been raised. 3. The weapon balance is better - Every single weapon plays an important role. You WILL be using the rifle. You WILL be using the fists (when you get a berserk and especially when you need health). You WILL be swapping shotguns. Etc. Each weapon has a distinct and useful role. Except maybe the chainsaw (the Doom reboots are maybe the only Doom games to finally nail a profound use for it). 4. The visceral impact is undeniably stronger - SGtMarkIV deserves a lot of credit for nailing what makes guns feel good to shoot and what is satisfying to see when you land hits on your enemies. BD in this respect rivals Doom2016 and Eternal imo. I remember seeing the gib animation in vanilla Doom back in the 90s and feeling like a badass, but what BD does for modern Doom is just pure murderous glee. Now, all of this applies at least in the older versions of Brutal Doom. Frankly I think the latest versions have gone overboard and ruined the balance by just adding too much stuff that actually detracts from the core gameplay loop. I think BD's strength is not that it makes a new experience, but that it magnifies what Doom is about to an extreme degree, and so you just add any kickass Doom map and you're guaranteed to have a good time. If you play further back versions, say around v17 (not sure exactly which is best, but somewhere around there), then every Doom weapon has a counterpart in Brutal Doom, and there are no duplicates (the weapon balance in older versions of BD where there aren't duplicate weapons is downright perfection). And there are no extraneous enemy behaviours that take up too much attention from the core loop of managing space and on-the-fly strategy that makes Doom great. All in all, just to say I don't know if I'll ever get bored of doom, and Brutal Doom matched with stellar new maps from the community are the reasons why. Bravo fellas
You mention that reloading in Doom is a risk reward kind of system. My question would be what is the reward? I understand the risk but would the reward be “I get to shoot more demons”? Also is the reward fun or contributes to the fun factor of the action itself? Would be putting yourself at risk a good incentive to receive that reward? A good example of risk reward in the modern doom game is the glory kill. The risk: having to close in the distance while being pushed by other enemies and being surrounded by them The reward: it gives you health that allows you to make more mistakes. Even the sound of getting your health sounds like you’re collecting coins from Sonic and getting to see the animation of ripping enemies apart adds to the reward factor. It feels satisfying. What would reloading reward the players other than getting to shoot demons more, which is something that you do in the base game without friction? Is it to survive for longer? Does the aspect of slowing down the flow of the game to survive longer part of what Doom is at its core? To me Doom is like a dance. You keep dancing at a fast pace while enemies tries to get you to trip. Reloading to me feels like you’re slowing down the dance to prevent yourself from tripping. When you’re slowing down the dance yourself, it takes away from the power fantasy focus of Doom, that you are a perfect player in control of your own dance, that you won’t trip over your own moves. The fact that you have to think about when to reload to me is the equivalent of you not having mastered the dance moves as you have to “take a break every now and then” to avoid tripping. On the other hand, when you remove the concept of reloading, the only thing that can get you to trip is your inability to properly assess your enemies and environment. It becomes nothing but a game of “out dancing” your enemies with NOTHING holding you back. You’re in perfect control of your own dance and it becomes a rhythm game between you and your enemies. That’s how i view Doom. That’s also why I always asks those questions: what are you trying to achieve by including certain mechanics in video games. Are you adding them there because they enhance the game or are you adding them because it’s a “standard” for modern game and if a game has ADS, every game needs to have it like as if you’re checking a checklist. I believe all those questions are important to better understand game design and I personally don’t believe modern mechanics like reloading or ADS belong in a power fantasy game that’s all about mastering the arena and overpowering enemies at lightning speed.
The tldr is that we view Doom slightly different ways and the almost "rhythmic" aspect wasn't a viewpoint I'd seen or considered when I made this video and has actually given me something new to consider. But divorced from this new point of consideration: Think about the mechanic at work with the simple act of shooting a demon. Your first stimuli is either the approaching sounds or the direct sight of an enemy. This is the 2nd lowest point on the crescendo that leads to satisfaction at the apex of the feedback loop, with the first just being the search aspect before you ever encounter a demon. You travel up the feedback curve during combat, responding to attacks or being swarmed--but the payoff is surviving the encounter: this is the apex and the prime condition for satisfaction. Running out of ammo, even in the original doom, is a hiccup in this system. What reloading does is throw an extra wrench in said system; it's the mechanical equivalent of edging and increases the length of tension within each combat encounter, elevating the impact of the payoff because it throws an asymmetrical aspect that can't always be calculated for on higher difficulties, especially if you're on a map with which you lack familiarity.
I fully agree that Brutal Doom brings the gameplay of classic doom closer to the modern iterations - Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal. I myself enjoy both Brutal Doom and Vanilla. Each feels like a different game with its own unique gameplay and goals.
My first foray into using DOOM mods was Project Brutality. It is really great, but I have to say that I prefer the weapons in Brutal Doom, though. Rip and tear!!! 👍🏻😎
My history with doom is a strange one. You see my first Doom game I played was Doom 3 BFG edition. I didn’t buy it it was a gift from the ps3 PSN easter special they once had. Decided to play it and as a 14 year old lil baby man I was shook because the game was spooky and it was technically my first horror game. However BFG edition also came with the Original 2 Dooms. I played them and at the time I wasnt too impressed. It wasn’t bad by any means but it felt…dated. No jumping, no aiming, the MIDI music was strange compared to other games from the SEGA genisis and SNES (grew up with those two because my dad both me the old game collections on a game cube when I was lil) and even the violence felt tame. I didn’t play so many violent videogames at that age but I did play some MK 1-3 and found Doom kinda lacking at the time. So I kinda forgot about it until they annouced Doom 2016 in the teaser. Again played a bit of Doom at the time but then forgot about it. Years later in 2015 I was getting hyped for Fallout 4. Was a bethesda fan at the time having played Oblivion, Skyrim and Fallout 3/NV. Fallout 4 had me hyped as hell and was the game I was the most focused on…until I saw the DOOM 2016 demo. I remember finding it really cool; thinking that compared to Doom 3 this looked awsome! But then I read the comments; I still remember a time when people said DOOM 2016 was gonna flop hard; how it was going to be a mess and that if you want to play the Real Doom 4 you should play something called “Brutal Doom” So I looked it up on UA-cam and my mind was fucking BLOWN. To me seeing Doom 1 and 2 ; two games I initially dismissed as neat but old games being overhauled to such a point made my balls drop. In fact I was so impressed I started getting interested into Doom more and more, going into the wiki and even looking at some of the game history. While I did have a PC at the time it hd been broken and I had one made for Fallout 4, which afterwards made me forget Doom for a while. I then got back into Doom when Doom 2016 came out and I LOVED it. To me this had been the ideal doom; it was fast, it was fun and it was brutal, unlike Doom 3 which as time went on I kinda started to resent since I felt I would have gotten into doom much sooner if they had gone for the RIP AND TEAR direction instead of the “shittier Dead Space” direction John Carmack wanted. So then late 2016 I remembered Brutal doom and I installed it onto my Laptop as the Starter Pack. I found it hard to play at first because I didn’t know how the modding worked, only modding I did was for Bethesds games. Regardless its only after that I played the Brutal Doom starter pack. Unfortunatly it would take me a few years to understand how to use ZDL which makes me now feel like an Idiot. Eventually in 2019 after the other gaming Laptop died and I got myself a work laptop to temporarily replace it I installed Doom 1 and 2 again on it as would ruj fine on the toaster. I also decided to use Project Brutality for it since I had heard it was a better version of Brutal Doom. I played it and loved it, but more importantly started finding out about other Mods; GMOTA, Astartes, Spawn, Golden Souls, Evilternity, Splatterhouse 3D. All of those mods were a Joy to play and all of it is thanks to Brutal Doom impressing me. So whenever I hear someone bitch about Brutal Doom being the worst I feel like i’m listening to on old boomer. Not just that but while I know that there is a Reddit page about all the Bad things Sargent Mkiv did at the same time this is *reddit* we are talking about so i’m not sure I trust it as a source as much
I think only reason why people hate it its popularity of this mod. They want to be "special" and don't like any thing what become popular. But truth is in, not every mainstream thing it's bad. Sometimes really piece of art become popular, and bd on one of them. If you have experience in this, real experience, i am mean really hardcore game play, hard wads, on black metal + difficulties, with fast monsters. The point where game become something incredible. As original doom - only you or them. Only your skills. And this tons of adrenaline, this amazing animations, sounds that moments where you have 3 points of hp but finish every demon. Dammn... It's so, so fucking good. And it's real drug. So bd v21 is peack now, only some new animations and weapons skin or sounds can make it better. So it's nothing strange in this what bd becomes so popular. It's worth it. And every minute in this mod is amazing.
Wish your super thanks were unlocked. Your definition of art alone is worth a donation. Also, agreed on weapons. The weapons are generally arranged as: 1. Average DPS/Average Ammo Efficency + Utility = I.E. Pump 2. High DPS/Low A.E. = I.E. Autoshotty 3. Low DPS/High A.E. = I.E. Double Barrel Also, agreed about ripping and tearing. The kills are even broken down into ammo types AND hit location. That's infinite replay value. There is little as cathartic as hearing monsters meant to terrify you? Screaming in pain, panic, and fear. Blowing a head off a SGT with no legs and one arm? CHEF KISS GREAT video. Unlock Super Thanks. Will check back. P.S. Would love a dive into the line "Each layer of gameplay should be met with equivalent layers of player feedback." I think I get it, but it seems deep enough to explore further.
I am playing Brutal Doom now, I was up till 1am last night giggling my ass off at this mod! Makes Doom soooo good! Oh, the violence! The gore! The humour!
finally a video about brutal doom that isn't bitching about how the mod is (some how) awful or crying about mark's past actions, it's like it's 2012 all over again
I personally prefer to play Traditional Mode from the test version of Project Brutality, AKA version 2.03. I just think that's the best way to play the game.
Always remind "Doom purists" that if they're using WASD instead of the arrow keys and alt-strafe, they're not really playing Doom "as it was intended to be played."
This isn't even true, strafe and mouse to turn was absolutely expected, and many of the demos are shown to be using it. WASD wasn't standard, but lots of people used it, as someone who was there.
Brutal Doom is Brilliant and Sergeant Mark IV is a genius! This mod however can be made even MORE brilliant if you couple it together with the "Maps of Chaos" mod. Just don't expect to survive on the higher difficulty levels 😜
I loved playing Brutal Doom. I have an older copy of Project Brutality that was just amazing. Somewhere along the lines, the newer versions of Project Brutality seems to have lose the ability to scratch the itch like it used to, so that's a bummer. But I played this a ton and loved it. I never felt it ruined Doom in any way, and I grew up playing Doom as a very young age.
The only real problem I have with Brutal Doom isn't the reloading itself, it's that it doesn't automatically reload when out of ammo, which can get annoying. Though reloading can be turned off entirely anyway. Other than that, it's really fun and one of the first Doom mods I played.
Glory kills in BD also serve survival. First - you delete a demon without using ammo. Then - the game time freezes during that animation, the player is not taking any damage from surrounding demons, so it's a way to survive being completely surrounded by multiple imps. In BD without berserk or using a BFG - a death sentence for a player. With berserk, you chain the glory kills... until it's done. I'm not sure, but in some versions of BD demons killed with the berserk left extra health and armor.
Nice video! I defiantly agree with a lot of what you said and I also disagree on somethings you said. I'm a younger player, and I started playing Brutal Doom and Classic Doom in general about 2 years ago. I liked it then and I still liked it now. But I've been moving away from Brutal Doom and going towards Classic Doom more. There's something that draws me to the more boomer shooter Classic Doom more then Brutal Doom does nowadays. While I still have more modern features, like crouching, jumping, mouselook, a few weapons mods here and there etc, I like to the more simply and less "In your face" as it will with Classic Doom. Brutal Doom feels like it's too much now sometimes. I think Brutal Doom should be viewed on it's own as opposed to Classic Doom. It's not the greatest Doom thing ever made and it's the worst thing ever to happened to Doom. Brutal Doom is good, but it's not Classic Doom. Classic Doom is good, but it's not Brutal Doom. Doom Eternal and Doom 2 aren't the same game, but they are still Doom. Same with Brutal Doom and Classic Doom. They're different, but they're Doom at the core. I'll end off by saying that I prefer more middle of the random stuff when it comes to Doom. More of an inbetween of Purist Brutal Doom and Classic Doom, kinda like Beautiful Doom or Smooth Doom in a way. There are enchained features, animations, gore, and some new weapons and enemies, but it's more along the lines of Classic Doom. But that's how I like to play Doom, and that's just fine by me.
I doubt there's many people who play Brutal Doom who don't also love vanilla, but when you've played Doom 1&2 a million times over the course of several decades, eventually you get to a point where you can do full UV runs with few or no deaths. Of course there's tons of great map packs these days to keep things fresh, but Brutal Doom set to Black Metal SIGNIFICANTLY increases the difficulty and brings a second life to the original games and their maps.
Brutal Doom was my gateway drug to classic Doom and it's countless mods. And I'm sure that's the case for many others. But I always find myself playing Brutal Doom the most; it's by far the most satisfying FPS combat I've seen, and not just in terms of Doom mods, I mean in general.
I played it alongside classic DOOM a few years ago. The new monster behaviours and deaths were really good, but the additional weapons were a bit much. I really enjoyed the friendly marines you can rescue. They add an interesting metagame and were super well balanced.
Brutal Doom is the shizznit! Im also a huge fan of the og's, but the gameplay in bd is just soo satisfying. I have a quest 2 headset and vr is my favorite way to play. Awesome video!
As a more casual player, UV gives me trouble most days, brutal UV FEELS balanced to me, I feel challenged because I have tools to deal with anything, but death is only a few seconds away.
How do you get the fatality-esque death animations? I've not been able to figure them out, and everywhere I look I keep seeing "berserker pack". Is there not a way to do it like 2016, where you shoot an enemy into a stun state and then finish them with your bare hands?
when you pick up the berserk pack powerup (i think the pinky demons drop these as well?) you can right click with your fists out to crack your knuckles and enter "rip and tear mode". when in that state and you punch an enemy to what would just be their death in vanilla doom, it'll perform the animation
Have you considered giving a similar review of the Ashes 2063 Trilogy? It's a game unto itself, and a unique experience. It's been my gateway experience into doom modding.
If it weren't for BD, I'd ignore Doom. Surprisingly, it'd actually make me more connected with Catholicism actually. Brutal Doom unironically made me more Christian lol
As an 80's/90's kid the GORE ALONE sold me on brutal doom. Having new weapons was just icing on the cake. And like Vince says, I barely used the glory kills. Doom 2016 and ESPECIALLY Doom Eternal feel like COMPLETELY different games. Hell, Brutal Doom was "so" crappy that the new Doom games were built COMPLETELY on glory kills which wasn't in the original game. The original was about resource management. The new games were all glory kills. What's the point of secrets if there aren't any power ups or cool new weapons to find? Brutal Doom is a love letter to old school Doom fans. And if you're SUCH a purist that you can't play anything other than the original Doom you might as well be Amish. Meanwhile if you were born in 2000 and smoke meth between your junior high classes, you probably NEED to play the new Doom because you can't appreciate anything below a cocaine high.
I wouldn't flame you, it is a good mod. Kind of sad that I am quite burnt out on the mod myself and it probably is more than 5 years since I last touched mod line. How exactly am I burnt out on Brutal Doom? Well, I can't remember the exact time, somewhere in... 2016, I think. I had played the mod so much that, I basically had seen everything (in my opinion). I moved onto other games at that time which I was more interested on mostly Warframe. It shouldn't be called a bad mod for being popular, granted hearing it on repeat can get pretty exhausting which I honestly understand and to an extent agree with. Best thing to remember about popularity is that it is temporary. Be more interested on how things will evolve over time than how popular it is. Trends come and go.
Brutal Doom is and was always amazing, I love it. The criticism was always ridiculous, it truly came from jealousy by other modders who couldn't stand their niche mods being overshadowed and they sent their loyals fans to badmouth BD. Some moddsrs even going so far as to but traps in their mods if you combined it with BD. Famously the HDoom creator with Revenants spawning. BD is what Id would have made if they could, and in the end a Mod is a Mod and you don't have to use it 😎
I think what most people miss is having something that harkens to classic doom that only borrows from older titles and expands on the gameplay in a different direction than the newer games. I miss when doom guy wasn’t a demigod and the world felt horribly real and engaging like in doom 64 with good but subtle lore unlike the newer games. This mod is like John wick, but I want to watch Nobody.
about the point that younger folks needs a gateway to get into a og doom, since apparently doom hasn't aged well. as a younger player myself, first thing is that the age of doo. itself is what attracts me to the game. the only issue might be some of the limits that the engine has like lower resolutions or some janky controls, in that scenario I think having a modern source port is enough. I recommend for people who really want to get into og doom to look up crispy doom. it does pretty good at keeping the vanilla experience while also adding some minor features like simulated recoil and colored blood you want.
It is a game of bone war for starters, and it conveys the horror of it. If you can’t handle that even like first person shooters, then don’t play it. Not only that, but you’re in hell trying to like shoot every living thing in hell for the most part to cleanse hell to get back where you started from
I've always liked Brutal Doom, maybe latest versions might not really be my kind of thing because i've always been more of "old is cooler cus i've grow up with that" but ever since I played V12 I was in love with the mod, the combat, visuals and everything made my teenager brain go crazy, whether was to play the normal vanilla maps, experiment with random maps from internet or just entirely mess with the cheats and console on modern source ports, it always was a blast, coming back from high school, boot up my laptop and play for hours brutal doom was always a beautiful thing to do. I've never understood the hate towards Brutal Doom and while hearing people talking trash about BD made me feel a bit mad sometimes when I was really into the mod, the hate never made me look at this amazing mod in a bad way, it was always the funny gore mod to just release some stress to And to this very day, I love BD and what Mark made, it's an awesome masterpiece of Doom modding. ᵃˡᵗʰᵒᵘᵍʰ ᵗʰᵉ ᵃᵘᵗᵒ ˢʰᵒᵗᵍᵘⁿ ᶦˢ ᵃ ᵇᶦᵗ ᵗᵒᵒ ᵐᵘᶜʰ ᵖᵒʷᵉʳᶠᵘˡ ᶦᵐᵒ ˡᵒˡᶻ
Doom mods are as old as the game itself. I remember being in 1st grade and seeing cd's being sold for 1000 levels at the store. Essentially they were custom wads.
I can't believe that id wouldn't have made over the top gore if they could. Vanilla doom just needed to run on a potato with 15 fps, they worked with what they had.
When I first played Brutal Doom, I love it! Then I went online to see what people thought of Brutal DOOM and I was a little shocked to find out it wasn't liked by many. I don't care, I still fire it up every so often for some mindless self indulgence
Brutal Doom isn't replacing OG DOOM. Nothing will ever replace OG DOOM. But it's a great option for those times where you just want to cause chaos and carnage.
Thanks for the video man, I always love to see people's interpretations of my creations.
Just a few points I want to add:
I think the reloading mechanics fits Doom because of the Super Shotgun. The Vanilla SSG is the best weapon in the game because it reloads, because being able to reduce the player's rate of fire allows you to unleash a more powerful and more satisfying shot. It adds more depth to the combat than just holding the M1 button.
If you look at the Quake's shotguns, you will notice they are not nearly as good as Doom's.
What I did, was to expand this concept to all other guns in the game, make them have the same depth and high risk/reward of the Super Shotgun. And I think it worked.
Indeed, one of the many reasons I love BD is that it makes gunplay a lot more satisfying for me than the vanilla weapons. Besides giving all of them more punch in general (and adding an additional layer of tactics with the reloads), I also like the balance changes that the mod brings to the table. Instead of having an arsenal consisting merely of guns with progressively higher DPS (that would essentially render weapons obtained earlier in the campaign obsolete, unless you run out of ammo for the higher-tier guns), most weapons in BD have their own pros, cons and appropriate situational uses (with the various weapons suited to different engagement distances and enemy types). I understand that this change in gunplay might stray too far from the classic Doom combat logic, but it's exactly because of this that the mod offers both a Classic arsenal setting, and a no-reload switch as well.
Maybe the only gripe I have with the arsenal in v21 is that some of the newer weapons feel redundant. I mean, the SMG, the Grenade Launcher and the Heavy Machinegun are all nasty and nice to use, it's just that I don't really see the point of them being added to the arsenal. The pistol, the AR and the minigun could already be used to clean up fodder demons (so there was no need for an extra SMG in this category, even if I like its rapid fire and dual-wielding capability), the frag grenades have been already there for larger groups of enemies before the Grenade Launcher, while the heavy machinegun is currently a strange mixture of the minigun, the assault rifle and the hand grenades - I like using it if I have no other mid-range solution in my arsenal, but it's not the weapon I would use if I have other alternatives available. As far as I remember, you mentioned on Twitter that for BD v22, you would streamline the arsenal, probably because of the exact same reasons (and with the current weapons remaining available in a separate weapon pack). Is this still your plan?
I would agree. I never really understood the idea of not putting ads/reload to keep the game fast. Being able to dip in and out of cover is as much of a necessity in doom vanilla as it is in Brutal Doom.
This was an observation I made long ago myself, and while I understand your reasoning, to my taste, it takes away from the "specialness" of the SSG to have every weapon reload. When every gun can just keep firing like a machine gun and then suddenly you have one gun that fires with such a big, bassy THUMP, and then takes a couple of seconds to reload, it kind of makes you say "Whoa, that's different."
While I understand and respect the mission statement and accomplishments of Brutal DOOM, there are aspects of its design that I personally would have approached differently, and the mod simply isn't to my taste. I wouldn't consider myself a "hater," though I may jokingly scoff at those who play anything other than vanilla DOOM on a period-accurate DOS machine. The "love it or hate it" attitude toward mods like this that radically alter the game is an unnecessary polarization. I can respect Brutal DOOM without liking it.
I personally see weapons in the original games as something similar to different moves in a fighting game. Some moves have alot of recovery frames like shotguns have but are powerful, while some are basically much weaker has very fast recovery like the chaingun. And some very powerful moves like bfg has also alot of startup frames. It is a system that works great with variety of the monsters you face and creates variety of situations where you need right weapon for the right situation, just like in fighting game you need the right move for the situation created by your opponent.
Making all weapons more high risk and high reward with reloading removes variety from the original weapon roster and this causes many of the weapons to have more overlapping uses and roles.
Also i find that reload actually allows you to survive alot longer since its a natural feature that paces you which allows for more time for impfighting, thinking, and depending on your addons; regenrate health.
One undeniable fact about Brutal Doom is that despite all it adds, it keeps the spirit of the vanilla game intact. "Doom, but Doomier" or something like that.
Now THIS is a good Brutal Doom video. None of Beansprout's "It hAS rELoaDInG iT TrASh wAAaaA" bs
Yea 😂👌👌
I don't think people like Beansprouts understood single sentence said in this video. Their purist mindset just went apeshit crazy with BD bad!
His arguments as for why BD sucked were absolutely piss poor. He dislikes the reloading and the new weapons are "useless". Uhm don't use them then? He really comes off as an arrogant douchebag. Is he a troll?
☝️🤓 UMMM ACTUALLYYYY BRASPROUT MADE HIS VIDEO AFTER THIS THERE FOR HE IS OBJECTIVELY CORRECT
Lol
I first played doom in 97.
By 2000 I had played tons of shooters.
Brutal Doom gave me that feeling I first had again.
How rare it is to capture that feeling of nostalgia and a excitement of something new is underrated.
For that alone, I absolutely love brutal Doom.
And tbh, I kinda want to credit BD with the return of the boomer Shooter.
Old pixel graphics + updated gameplay graphics makes it come together. Plus updated, clean animations for said pixel graphics.
Good ol' Sergeant put Brutal Fate even on hold to make some "finishing?" touches to Brutal DooM. I have seen lots of negativity of BD but i personally loved it. The chunky pixel gore and tons of new death animations for each monster is just pure dedication he didn't have to put his blood sweat and tears in this project but he still did. I wish him the best of luck in his commercial game and hope he got some nasty surprises for the future :)
Great video. BD was the mod that first introduced me into classic doom modding. I dont play it that often nowadays but its still some good fun. I've never understood the criticism for mods "adding elements that were not in the original game". When that's kinda the entire point of modding a game in some ways.
They're idiot people drop out from school.
Saaame
Same here. Brutal Doom got me into doom modding.
I feel like the DOOM modding community imo wouldn't be as huge as it is today without newcomer-friendly mods like Brutal Doom :D
Brutal Doom made me fall in love Doom modding as a whole
@@KudoRedfoxsame I wasn’t even aware of the “hate” that it gets
im a 15 year old whos favorite game of all time is doom one and 2, i played both before, and bacuse i grew up with very advanced video game tech, it never a pealed to me. I them found brutal doom, i loaded it into GZ doom, and for four and a half years now, doom has been my favorite game every. and i credit that to brutal doom
Yeah mods and games likee mods indie devs and passionate devs are where the heart of gaming is right now :)
Same boat as you buddy
Ironically a lot of boomers were in favour of rear sights to provide better visibly when acquiring the enemy. I think it was the WW2 inspired tactical squad based title Hidden & Dangerous that first used iron-sights.
The reason most people denounce Brutal Doom is simply because they dislike SgtMarkIV for things he did a very long time ago at this point, so they throw shit at his mod and act like it's the worst mod ever when they all know it's one of the most important and best mods for Doom. Not THE best or most important but it is up there and rightfully so.
Agree .. hating someone for what he is doesn't automatically mean his work is the same
We need to separate art from the artist but also present from the past
What other important mods are there? I'm new to the Doom scene.
My personal favorite mod of all time is Eviternity on Doom Retro, but there are a lot.
Doom the way Id Did, Brutal Wolfenstein, the old Alien TC, Scythe, Shrine, Simon's Destiny, and Back to Saturn X just off the top of my head.
@@VinceSteel I see, I had seen GMOTA and Ashes 2063 so far. I'll make sure to check those out.
One of my favorite things is how weapons don't effectively get replaced by newer weapons. The standard rifle is always useful.
In Vanilla DOOM, I'm only ever using the pistol because I have no choice. Once I have the shotgun and chaingun, there's no reason to ever go back to it. Pistol might not be the best gun in Brutal DOOM, but if there's that one demon that survived the rocket blast or whatever, whip it out and conserve the better ammo for later.
And the mod is hilariously violent which I've found deeply satisfying over the years
I in Burtal Doom I sometimes just punch things because even the fists are so fun.
BD and Complex Doom/Clusterfuck/God Complex are my favorite mods. It seems that a lot of people that knock BD have subjective criticisms about it. It's very well made and presented and I hope Sgt MKIV keeps making improvements
beansprout: *angry noises intensify*
My biggest problem with the attitudes surrounding BD is that there have probably been loads of people who got into doom through it, only to be met with outright hostility when they get to the main doom community. Yeah, I get that they need to learn the etiquette and stop complaining when maps aren’t compatible with BD, but the amount of new players we’ve scared off is probably insane.
Who cares
@@bigsauce1116 everyone who enjoys classic doom should care. Every single person we scare off is a person who could have made the next groundbreaking doom mod
@@thriller2910 if I enjoy a game, I really don't care what others think really
@@thriller2910 ur thinking on a level most can’t comprehend. I agree wit u 100%
@@bigsauce1116 it's less what others think though, and more how people treat each other.
I've been playing Doom/Doom II .wads with GZDoom & Brutal Doom almost exclusively this year. Somehow hadn't heard of Eviternity until I watched this. Holy crap, is it impressive! Thanks for that.
Eviternity is probably my favorite "pure experience" mod. The map design is so good, albeit it gets really, really brutal towards the end. Definitely worth playing.
He's mapping for Prodeus now, and that game is phenomenal.
Absolutely brutal. Map 32 is a real asskicker. I've seen some impressive curved surfaces, geometric details and animated textures in a few Doom maps, but none on the level that you find in Eviternity. There's also some very memorable music in there, particularly within the Icy Castles chapter.
Prodeus does look nice, but it doesn't have that insane movement speed of Doom. The gradual descent into walking simulators is why I decided to devote all my gaming time to only Doom for the time being. That, and all the free content from so many amazing people.
Man, i played vanilla doom for a looong time, and to me Brutal Doom made the experience of playing doom better, it felt like a proper improvement over the original game, and i loved it, even started a channel a while ago doing stage tutorials using it, it's a lot satisfying to play this, and i would even say it makes the game even more frenetic and fast, so to me it was a very positive experience. Now i did make myself the personal challenge to first close the expansions first in vanilla to then move to a BD playthrough, and i loved the experience. Great review you have here mate, you brought some very good arguments to the table and i agree, there is a lot of unnecessary hate around this mod, and i would say one stupid reason is the old "because it's popular" stuff, sometimes it is deserved, but this is definitely a not deserved one for sure.
the only BRUTAL thing about Brutal Doom is that you can't open it's archive on 7-Zip
I remembered I couldn't open the file in my Raspberry Pi 4 when I tried to install BD for Raspberry Pi.
I used rar to zip converter
Wait but you CAN open rar files with 7-zip, you just can't make them.
Interesting video. I grew up with doom, and brutal doom for me always felt "to much". Reloading, ads etc made it feel less like doom and more like any generic fps.
This video has given me another insight to the way the mod treats doom. Making me want to give it another shot. Thanks!
Definitely do, though I can understand how it might be overwhelming.
It's definitely a departure from the vanilla experience, but I have always felt that the changes were additive rather than detrimental. Especially as of v21.
The only whinge I have is there is too much gore too soon, so you get desensitized far too quickly. This is perhaps a bit of a shortcoming to extreme mods, it has impact but it gets tired too fast.
You can put on purist rules so there isn't reloading.
I grew up with half life, and most I'd what is added modern shooter wise is really about as deep as source games go.
Beansprout: “Waaaah people like a mod that has RELOADING in it! WAAAAAH!”
I really liked the insight you gave for the deep satisfying nature of what original Doom games wanted to be and what BD also setted out to be: About satisfying the visceral need for violence.
The gore and transgression goes far back as the original game, and I remember for example how people wanted to crucify SgtMark for the whole real gore idea when the hanging corpses of the original were made from pictures of Mussolini and his wife being killed... it may be exagerated and over the top for some, but that's what the original at the end wanted to be.
As a actual doom modder that got into because of BD I'm glad of seeing someone asking for respect for this mod because of all the toxicity I've seen from purists and other modding communities towards newcomers who ask for BD related content, and now that I'm working on a mod using BD as base for gore and stuff that wants to enhance even more the things you emphazised, it really makes me feel grateful that this mod exists. It spawned a lot of creativity from a lot of people and I wish even more people could get and learn a lot of amazing stuff like I did. Great video
BD is the best. It's an enhancement that doesn't go overboard (like Project Brutality does). I got so used to it that I really miss some of its features when playing classic Doom. Love Brutal Doom Power Fantasy too.
Combine brutal doom with tomtefar's extension (that enhances the game's balance by a lot), and lemme tell you, you'll have a fun game!
What? PB have the same exatly ammount of weapons, as the Brutal Doom. And have much better reloading animations, weapon sprites and more interesting and challenging monsters
@@42ccbYou must be high if you think BD has *anywhere near* the amount of weapons PB has.
@@lilyschrodingy3600 BD: Axe, pistol, revolver, autoshotgun, shotgun, supershotgun, rifle, machine gun, minigun, rocket launcher, grenade launcher, plasmagun, railgun, bfg9000, unmaker, grenade, flamethrower.
PB: Axe, pistol, revolver, desert eagle, shotgun, autoshotgun, supershotgun, rifle, machine gun, minigun, rocket launcher, grenade launcher, plasmagun, freezer rifle, railgun, bfg9000, unmaker, grenade, flamethrower.
See? Exactly the nearly same ammount, but PB is much more better in balance, each weapon really has its sense, all animations new and fresh. Actually the Brutal Doom is just like the very old mod, the only thing it wins over PB - is multiplayer and Zandronum compatibility. New Project Brutality - is the new Brutal Doom, also the Zandronum port is in work.
@@42ccb
>Handcannon Revolver
>Martian Raptor Automag
>DMR
>Carbine
>Super GL
>Quadshotgun
>HDMR
>Nailgun
>M2 Lightning Gun
>Black Hole Generator
>Demon Tech Rifle
That's not even counting some of the upgrades for the weapons you mentioned. Again, you must be TRIPPING BALLS if you think PB has anywhere near the amount of weapons BD has.
"the only thing it wins over PB - is multiplayer and Zandronum compatibility"
PB's blood and gore system is FAR INFERIOR from Brutal Doom's just so you know, especially with the current v22.
If this floats your boat get a load of Project Brutality.
Big fan of project brutality. Will do a video on it at some point.
I second that, just the expanded arsenal and loads of new custom monsters make it worthwhile. To those who haven't tried it know this, if you think Archviles are a pain in the ass to deal with, wait till you encounter a Flesh Wizard or a Paladin.
Cyberdemons and Spider Masterminds are pretty easy, that's until you encounter an Annihilator or Devastator.
Yeah the BFG is cool but try the Chaingun BFG, Black Hole generator and Demontech rifle.
@@DarkSektoritheres more think two barrels are powerful? GET A LOAD OF THE QUAD BARREL SHOTGUN
SGtMarkIV is working on a new major project that will be release in two years from now on Steam, Brutal FATE
While as a kid Doom was fascinating - I remember going to a friend's house but not because I was interested in doing anything with him but just because he had Doom 2 on his family PC - by adulthood I had lost interest in it and it was just another old outdated game. Brutal Doom for me however blew me away, and it revived, restored and renewed Doom and gave it years more life. All the "feature creep" added depth and sophistication to expand a game that was pretty much solved.
As for why some people hate the mod, I think a lot of it is simply due to snobbery. Brutal Doom is popular, Brutal Doom is widespread, therefore Brutal Doom lacks obscure hipster cred. Complaints about Sgt_Mark_IV's past behaviour are just insincere cover for the actual, much more petty and petulant reason for their resentment - most people who bring it up don't even know the actual particulars, it was just told to them "he did a rayciss" and that gets endlessly repeated by the Twitterati because there's no statute of limitations on the internet.
Brutal Doom is amazing, and keep at it Sgt_Mk_IV, looking forward to the final version!
I love the brutal doom atmosphere, it is so well captured imo (talking about extermination day in particular). Also the choice of music, it makes a lot, you truly feel badass, as you should.
Anyone Love or Hate SgtMarkIV all they want, but nobody can deny he revolutionized Doom95 in ways even John Carmack and John Romero were impressed at.
SgtMarkIV gave Doom95 the shot of Adrenaline and Steroids it needed to say the great honored godfather of modern 3D games was still the best even after so many years.
Personally, I think too many purists have tried to spoil the efforts to modernize Doom95 to what Brutal Doom offers. Why be stuck in the past? Brutal Doom is still Doom...
Who the hell loves him.
LOL
Well said. Glad people are recognizing this. To me, it's a really simple set of reasons why Brutal Doom breathes so much life into classic Doom. Classic Doom already has a really beautiful balance to it, which Brutal Doom hones and improves on, regardless of all the blood and gore.
1. Everything is faster - enemies and projectiles. If you are experienced playing Doom, the action becomes more frenetic, more tense, more engaging. This is a really important fundamental shift in BD that didn't get too much of a look in this video.
2. Everything is more lethal - your weapons and your enemies. As I see it Doom is like a first-person shmup. There are two rules: hit the enemy as hard as possible (prioritizing targets), and do so while you do your best not to get hit yourself. It's just more fun when you CAN hit harder, and when the stakes over avoiding damage have been raised.
3. The weapon balance is better - Every single weapon plays an important role. You WILL be using the rifle. You WILL be using the fists (when you get a berserk and especially when you need health). You WILL be swapping shotguns. Etc. Each weapon has a distinct and useful role. Except maybe the chainsaw (the Doom reboots are maybe the only Doom games to finally nail a profound use for it).
4. The visceral impact is undeniably stronger - SGtMarkIV deserves a lot of credit for nailing what makes guns feel good to shoot and what is satisfying to see when you land hits on your enemies. BD in this respect rivals Doom2016 and Eternal imo. I remember seeing the gib animation in vanilla Doom back in the 90s and feeling like a badass, but what BD does for modern Doom is just pure murderous glee.
Now, all of this applies at least in the older versions of Brutal Doom. Frankly I think the latest versions have gone overboard and ruined the balance by just adding too much stuff that actually detracts from the core gameplay loop. I think BD's strength is not that it makes a new experience, but that it magnifies what Doom is about to an extreme degree, and so you just add any kickass Doom map and you're guaranteed to have a good time. If you play further back versions, say around v17 (not sure exactly which is best, but somewhere around there), then every Doom weapon has a counterpart in Brutal Doom, and there are no duplicates (the weapon balance in older versions of BD where there aren't duplicate weapons is downright perfection). And there are no extraneous enemy behaviours that take up too much attention from the core loop of managing space and on-the-fly strategy that makes Doom great.
All in all, just to say I don't know if I'll ever get bored of doom, and Brutal Doom matched with stellar new maps from the community are the reasons why. Bravo fellas
Not only the mod you covered is brilliant but the review you made is brilliant as well
I love brutal doom; I make no apology for that.
You mention that reloading in Doom is a risk reward kind of system. My question would be what is the reward? I understand the risk but would the reward be “I get to shoot more demons”? Also is the reward fun or contributes to the fun factor of the action itself? Would be putting yourself at risk a good incentive to receive that reward?
A good example of risk reward in the modern doom game is the glory kill.
The risk: having to close in the distance while being pushed by other enemies and being surrounded by them
The reward: it gives you health that allows you to make more mistakes. Even the sound of getting your health sounds like you’re collecting coins from Sonic and getting to see the animation of ripping enemies apart adds to the reward factor. It feels satisfying.
What would reloading reward the players other than getting to shoot demons more, which is something that you do in the base game without friction? Is it to survive for longer? Does the aspect of slowing down the flow of the game to survive longer part of what Doom is at its core?
To me Doom is like a dance. You keep dancing at a fast pace while enemies tries to get you to trip. Reloading to me feels like you’re slowing down the dance to prevent yourself from tripping. When you’re slowing down the dance yourself, it takes away from the power fantasy focus of Doom, that you are a perfect player in control of your own dance, that you won’t trip over your own moves. The fact that you have to think about when to reload to me is the equivalent of you not having mastered the dance moves as you have to “take a break every now and then” to avoid tripping.
On the other hand, when you remove the concept of reloading, the only thing that can get you to trip is your inability to properly assess your enemies and environment. It becomes nothing but a game of “out dancing” your enemies with NOTHING holding you back. You’re in perfect control of your own dance and it becomes a rhythm game between you and your enemies.
That’s how i view Doom. That’s also why I always asks those questions: what are you trying to achieve by including certain mechanics in video games. Are you adding them there because they enhance the game or are you adding them because it’s a “standard” for modern game and if a game has ADS, every game needs to have it like as if you’re checking a checklist. I believe all those questions are important to better understand game design and I personally don’t believe modern mechanics like reloading or ADS belong in a power fantasy game that’s all about mastering the arena and overpowering enemies at lightning speed.
The tldr is that we view Doom slightly different ways and the almost "rhythmic" aspect wasn't a viewpoint I'd seen or considered when I made this video and has actually given me something new to consider.
But divorced from this new point of consideration:
Think about the mechanic at work with the simple act of shooting a demon.
Your first stimuli is either the approaching sounds or the direct sight of an enemy. This is the 2nd lowest point on the crescendo that leads to satisfaction at the apex of the feedback loop, with the first just being the search aspect before you ever encounter a demon.
You travel up the feedback curve during combat, responding to attacks or being swarmed--but the payoff is surviving the encounter: this is the apex and the prime condition for satisfaction. Running out of ammo, even in the original doom, is a hiccup in this system. What reloading does is throw an extra wrench in said system; it's the mechanical equivalent of edging and increases the length of tension within each combat encounter, elevating the impact of the payoff because it throws an asymmetrical aspect that can't always be calculated for on higher difficulties, especially if you're on a map with which you lack familiarity.
Yes, this here is a good damn video. You get it. I can't play Doom without Brutal Doom.
CTHALHA!!!
Brutal doom is great, I had no idea people didn't like it. It's a masterpiece of a mod - compared to any mod in any game, one of the penultimate.
I fully agree that Brutal Doom brings the gameplay of classic doom closer to the modern iterations - Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal. I myself enjoy both Brutal Doom and Vanilla. Each feels like a different game with its own unique gameplay and goals.
Love this video, Brutal Doom is my all time favorite Doom mod, keep up the great work. :)
This will always be the best Doom mod! Nice vid!
Great philosophical review on brutal doom
Youre on a next level of sophistication and depth
brutal mods have been always will be prefect for any gorehound
My first foray into using DOOM mods was Project Brutality. It is really great, but I have to say that I prefer the weapons in Brutal Doom, though.
Rip and tear!!! 👍🏻😎
My history with doom is a strange one.
You see my first Doom game I played was Doom 3 BFG edition. I didn’t buy it it was a gift from the ps3 PSN easter special they once had. Decided to play it and as a 14 year old lil baby man I was shook because the game was spooky and it was technically my first horror game.
However BFG edition also came with the Original 2 Dooms. I played them and at the time I wasnt too impressed. It wasn’t bad by any means but it felt…dated. No jumping, no aiming, the MIDI music was strange compared to other games from the SEGA genisis and SNES (grew up with those two because my dad both me the old game collections on a game cube when I was lil) and even the violence felt tame. I didn’t play so many violent videogames at that age but I did play some MK 1-3 and found Doom kinda lacking at the time.
So I kinda forgot about it until they annouced Doom 2016 in the teaser. Again played a bit of Doom at the time but then forgot about it.
Years later in 2015 I was getting hyped for Fallout 4. Was a bethesda fan at the time having played Oblivion, Skyrim and Fallout 3/NV. Fallout 4 had me hyped as hell and was the game I was the most focused on…until I saw the DOOM 2016 demo. I remember finding it really cool; thinking that compared to Doom 3 this looked awsome! But then I read the comments; I still remember a time when people said DOOM 2016 was gonna flop hard; how it was going to be a mess and that if you want to play the Real Doom 4 you should play something called “Brutal Doom”
So I looked it up on UA-cam and my mind was fucking BLOWN. To me seeing Doom 1 and 2 ; two games I initially dismissed as neat but old games being overhauled to such a point made my balls drop. In fact I was so impressed I started getting interested into Doom more and more, going into the wiki and even looking at some of the game history.
While I did have a PC at the time it hd been broken and I had one made for Fallout 4, which afterwards made me forget Doom for a while. I then got back into Doom when Doom 2016 came out and I LOVED it. To me this had been the ideal doom; it was fast, it was fun and it was brutal, unlike Doom 3 which as time went on I kinda started to resent since I felt I would have gotten into doom much sooner if they had gone for the RIP AND TEAR direction instead of the “shittier Dead Space” direction John Carmack wanted.
So then late 2016 I remembered Brutal doom and I installed it onto my Laptop as the Starter Pack. I found it hard to play at first because I didn’t know how the modding worked, only modding I did was for Bethesds games. Regardless its only after that I played the Brutal Doom starter pack. Unfortunatly it would take me a few years to understand how to use ZDL which makes me now feel like an Idiot.
Eventually in 2019 after the other gaming Laptop died and I got myself a work laptop to temporarily replace it I installed Doom 1 and 2 again on it as would ruj fine on the toaster.
I also decided to use Project Brutality for it since I had heard it was a better version of Brutal Doom. I played it and loved it, but more importantly started finding out about other Mods; GMOTA, Astartes, Spawn, Golden Souls, Evilternity, Splatterhouse 3D.
All of those mods were a Joy to play and all of it is thanks to Brutal Doom impressing me. So whenever I hear someone bitch about Brutal Doom being the worst I feel like i’m listening to on old boomer. Not just that but while I know that there is a Reddit page about all the Bad things Sargent Mkiv did at the same time this is *reddit* we are talking about so i’m not sure I trust it as a source as much
I disagree on shooters after Classic Doom being inferior. For me, UT 2004 is the best fps of all-time. Classic Doom is still good.
I think only reason why people hate it its popularity of this mod. They want to be "special" and don't like any thing what become popular. But truth is in, not every mainstream thing it's bad. Sometimes really piece of art become popular, and bd on one of them. If you have experience in this, real experience, i am mean really hardcore game play, hard wads, on black metal + difficulties, with fast monsters. The point where game become something incredible. As original doom - only you or them. Only your skills. And this tons of adrenaline, this amazing animations, sounds that moments where you have 3 points of hp but finish every demon. Dammn... It's so, so fucking good. And it's real drug. So bd v21 is peack now, only some new animations and weapons skin or sounds can make it better. So it's nothing strange in this what bd becomes so popular. It's worth it. And every minute in this mod is amazing.
As a former bd hater i can confirm people hate this mod just to be cool/unique
@@czarnakoza9697 exactly, i was know some people like that
Many people nate it because the creator is an asshole.
Imo old brutal doom (v17-v19) were imo equel to og doom as an exeprience but since v20 brutal.doom imo feels like a true upgrade to doom
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave?
Brutal doom could be its own game, with a few changes
Doomguy and the doom slayer are the same dude, slayer was just added after doomguy became feared by the demons
Wish your super thanks were unlocked. Your definition of art alone is worth a donation.
Also, agreed on weapons.
The weapons are generally arranged as:
1. Average DPS/Average Ammo Efficency + Utility = I.E. Pump
2. High DPS/Low A.E. = I.E. Autoshotty
3. Low DPS/High A.E. = I.E. Double Barrel
Also, agreed about ripping and tearing. The kills are even broken down into ammo types AND hit location. That's infinite replay value.
There is little as cathartic as hearing monsters meant to terrify you? Screaming in pain, panic, and fear. Blowing a head off a SGT with no legs and one arm? CHEF KISS
GREAT video.
Unlock Super Thanks.
Will check back.
P.S. Would love a dive into the line "Each layer of gameplay should be met with equivalent layers of player feedback." I think I get it, but it seems deep enough to explore further.
Doom was literally the first video game I ever played, at 5 years old. But I'll still play it now thanks to the mods such as BD
He’s only “not the fucking doom slayer” because that’s what he becomes.
I am playing Brutal Doom now, I was up till 1am last night giggling my ass off at this mod! Makes Doom soooo good! Oh, the violence! The gore! The humour!
For me it was and still is the same. I just can't stop grinning when i am tearing through a level.
finally a video about brutal doom that isn't bitching about how the mod is (some how) awful or crying about mark's past actions, it's like it's 2012 all over again
The people who do that are clearly woketards whose whole identity is just being a victim
Brutal doom fans: "i play this game because it's fun and I like it"
Doom fans: >:(
I personally prefer to play Traditional Mode from the test version of Project Brutality, AKA version 2.03.
I just think that's the best way to play the game.
Always remind "Doom purists" that if they're using WASD instead of the arrow keys and alt-strafe, they're not really playing Doom "as it was intended to be played."
This isn't even true, strafe and mouse to turn was absolutely expected, and many of the demos are shown to be using it. WASD wasn't standard, but lots of people used it, as someone who was there.
Brutal Doom is Brilliant and Sergeant Mark IV is a genius! This mod however can be made even MORE brilliant if you couple it together with the "Maps of Chaos" mod. Just don't expect to survive on the higher difficulty levels 😜
Left 4 dead 2, DooM eternal, BRUTAL DooM and RDR2 are the games that i think have some of the best gore systems
dead island
I loved playing Brutal Doom. I have an older copy of Project Brutality that was just amazing. Somewhere along the lines, the newer versions of Project Brutality seems to have lose the ability to scratch the itch like it used to, so that's a bummer. But I played this a ton and loved it. I never felt it ruined Doom in any way, and I grew up playing Doom as a very young age.
can you give me the best project brutality in your opinion to play with
The only thing I don't like about Brutal Doom is that it breaks GZDoom's previous/next weapon keys
The only real problem I have with Brutal Doom isn't the reloading itself, it's that it doesn't automatically reload when out of ammo, which can get annoying. Though reloading can be turned off entirely anyway. Other than that, it's really fun and one of the first Doom mods I played.
Glory kills in BD also serve survival. First - you delete a demon without using ammo. Then - the game time freezes during that animation, the player is not taking any damage from surrounding demons, so it's a way to survive being completely surrounded by multiple imps. In BD without berserk or using a BFG - a death sentence for a player. With berserk, you chain the glory kills... until it's done. I'm not sure, but in some versions of BD demons killed with the berserk left extra health and armor.
Nice video!
I defiantly agree with a lot of what you said and I also disagree on somethings you said.
I'm a younger player, and I started playing Brutal Doom and Classic Doom in general about 2 years ago. I liked it then and I still liked it now.
But I've been moving away from Brutal Doom and going towards Classic Doom more. There's something that draws me to the more boomer shooter Classic Doom more then Brutal Doom does nowadays.
While I still have more modern features, like crouching, jumping, mouselook, a few weapons mods here and there etc, I like to the more simply and less "In your face" as it will with Classic Doom. Brutal Doom feels like it's too much now sometimes.
I think Brutal Doom should be viewed on it's own as opposed to Classic Doom. It's not the greatest Doom thing ever made and it's the worst thing ever to happened to Doom.
Brutal Doom is good, but it's not Classic Doom. Classic Doom is good, but it's not Brutal Doom.
Doom Eternal and Doom 2 aren't the same game, but they are still Doom. Same with Brutal Doom and Classic Doom. They're different, but they're Doom at the core.
I'll end off by saying that I prefer more middle of the random stuff when it comes to Doom. More of an inbetween of Purist Brutal Doom and Classic Doom, kinda like Beautiful Doom or Smooth Doom in a way.
There are enchained features, animations, gore, and some new weapons and enemies, but it's more along the lines of Classic Doom.
But that's how I like to play Doom, and that's just fine by me.
I doubt there's many people who play Brutal Doom who don't also love vanilla, but when you've played Doom 1&2 a million times over the course of several decades, eventually you get to a point where you can do full UV runs with few or no deaths. Of course there's tons of great map packs these days to keep things fresh, but Brutal Doom set to Black Metal SIGNIFICANTLY increases the difficulty and brings a second life to the original games and their maps.
Brutal Doom was my gateway drug to classic Doom and it's countless mods. And I'm sure that's the case for many others.
But I always find myself playing Brutal Doom the most; it's by far the most satisfying FPS combat I've seen, and not just in terms of Doom mods, I mean in general.
I played it alongside classic DOOM a few years ago. The new monster behaviours and deaths were really good, but the additional weapons were a bit much. I really enjoyed the friendly marines you can rescue. They add an interesting metagame and were super well balanced.
Fucking INCREDIBLE analysis. You nailed it man. Please keep making videos about Doom
Can you use x box 360controller if what is the layout in custom controller need help I the control to move a is shoot need the reload and aim
I use keyboard and mouse so I have no idea, but you can change your controls around in the GZDoom menu.
You can definitely use an Xbox controler with no issue gz doom fully supports them
I've played Doom in one way or another since 1993.
I played Doom 2016 to completion once.
I play Brutal Doom CONSTANTLY.
As some who played doom since 1994 totally agree
"DOOM Guy, not the fucking Doom Slayer!"
So uuuuuh, *about that* lol.
My only problem with glory kills is his gloves disappear when it goes into 3rd person.
Brutal Doom is the shizznit! Im also a huge fan of the og's, but the gameplay in bd is just soo satisfying. I have a quest 2 headset and vr is my favorite way to play. Awesome video!
As a more casual player, UV gives me trouble most days, brutal UV FEELS balanced to me, I feel challenged because I have tools to deal with anything, but death is only a few seconds away.
How do you get the fatality-esque death animations? I've not been able to figure them out, and everywhere I look I keep seeing "berserker pack". Is there not a way to do it like 2016, where you shoot an enemy into a stun state and then finish them with your bare hands?
when you pick up the berserk pack powerup (i think the pinky demons drop these as well?) you can right click with your fists out to crack your knuckles and enter "rip and tear mode". when in that state and you punch an enemy to what would just be their death in vanilla doom, it'll perform the animation
Have you considered giving a similar review of the Ashes 2063 Trilogy? It's a game unto itself, and a unique experience. It's been my gateway experience into doom modding.
I wish they gave us the option of the brutal doom patch for the switch.
This may be old video , but this game is fun to play , especially in VR with QuestZDoom
Brutal doom is how we remember doom
If it weren't for BD, I'd ignore Doom. Surprisingly, it'd actually make me more connected with Catholicism actually. Brutal Doom unironically made me more Christian lol
That... is definitely bizarre, lol. But art impacts us differently.
I just listened 19 minutes to some dude selling me the mod I already love.
Doom Guy is too angry to live and too angry to die.
As an 80's/90's kid the GORE ALONE sold me on brutal doom. Having new weapons was just icing on the cake. And like Vince says, I barely used the glory kills. Doom 2016 and ESPECIALLY Doom Eternal feel like COMPLETELY different games. Hell, Brutal Doom was "so" crappy that the new Doom games were built COMPLETELY on glory kills which wasn't in the original game. The original was about resource management. The new games were all glory kills. What's the point of secrets if there aren't any power ups or cool new weapons to find? Brutal Doom is a love letter to old school Doom fans. And if you're SUCH a purist that you can't play anything other than the original Doom you might as well be Amish. Meanwhile if you were born in 2000 and smoke meth between your junior high classes, you probably NEED to play the new Doom because you can't appreciate anything below a cocaine high.
I wouldn't flame you, it is a good mod. Kind of sad that I am quite burnt out on the mod myself and it probably is more than 5 years since I last touched mod line. How exactly am I burnt out on Brutal Doom? Well, I can't remember the exact time, somewhere in... 2016, I think. I had played the mod so much that, I basically had seen everything (in my opinion). I moved onto other games at that time which I was more interested on mostly Warframe. It shouldn't be called a bad mod for being popular, granted hearing it on repeat can get pretty exhausting which I honestly understand and to an extent agree with.
Best thing to remember about popularity is that it is temporary. Be more interested on how things will evolve over time than how popular it is. Trends come and go.
Aye. Doom 2016 and eternal, specially eternal, have lackluster maps
Brutal Doom is and was always amazing, I love it. The criticism was always ridiculous, it truly came from jealousy by other modders who couldn't stand their niche mods being overshadowed and they sent their loyals fans to badmouth BD. Some moddsrs even going so far as to but traps in their mods if you combined it with BD. Famously the HDoom creator with Revenants spawning. BD is what Id would have made if they could, and in the end a Mod is a Mod and you don't have to use it 😎
I think what most people miss is having something that harkens to classic doom that only borrows from older titles and expands on the gameplay in a different direction than the newer games. I miss when doom guy wasn’t a demigod and the world felt horribly real and engaging like in doom 64 with good but subtle lore unlike the newer games. This mod is like John wick, but I want to watch Nobody.
I mean the modern doom games, 2016 and Eternal, took a lot of mechanics and visual feedback from Brutal Doom
about the point that younger folks needs a gateway to get into a og doom, since apparently doom hasn't aged well.
as a younger player myself, first thing is that the age of doo. itself is what attracts me to the game. the only issue might be some of the limits that the engine has like lower resolutions or some janky controls, in that scenario I think having a modern source port is enough. I recommend for people who really want to get into og doom to look up crispy doom. it does pretty good at keeping the vanilla experience while also adding some minor features like simulated recoil and colored blood you want.
Cool video !
It is a game of bone war for starters, and it conveys the horror of it. If you can’t handle that even like first person shooters, then don’t play it. Not only that, but you’re in hell trying to like shoot every living thing in hell for the most part to cleanse hell to get back where you started from
I've always liked Brutal Doom, maybe latest versions might not really be my kind of thing because i've always been more of "old is cooler cus i've grow up with that" but ever since I played V12 I was in love with the mod, the combat, visuals and everything made my teenager brain go crazy, whether was to play the normal vanilla maps, experiment with random maps from internet or just entirely mess with the cheats and console on modern source ports, it always was a blast, coming back from high school, boot up my laptop and play for hours brutal doom was always a beautiful thing to do.
I've never understood the hate towards Brutal Doom and while hearing people talking trash about BD made me feel a bit mad sometimes when I was really into the mod, the hate never made me look at this amazing mod in a bad way, it was always the funny gore mod to just release some stress to
And to this very day, I love BD and what Mark made, it's an awesome masterpiece of Doom modding.
ᵃˡᵗʰᵒᵘᵍʰ ᵗʰᵉ ᵃᵘᵗᵒ ˢʰᵒᵗᵍᵘⁿ ᶦˢ ᵃ ᵇᶦᵗ ᵗᵒᵒ ᵐᵘᶜʰ ᵖᵒʷᵉʳᶠᵘˡ ᶦᵐᵒ ˡᵒˡᶻ
Doom mods are as old as the game itself. I remember being in 1st grade and seeing cd's being sold for 1000 levels at the store. Essentially they were custom wads.
I can't believe that id wouldn't have made over the top gore if they could. Vanilla doom just needed to run on a potato with 15 fps, they worked with what they had.
I smoked a bunch of weed and ate a whole pizza while watching this video and enjoyed it a lot, now I will subscribe!
When I first played Brutal Doom, I love it! Then I went online to see what people thought of Brutal DOOM and I was a little shocked to find out it wasn't liked by many. I don't care, I still fire it up every so often for some mindless self indulgence
People don’t like the guy that made it. I’ve even seen some admitting they hated BD because of Sgt
Either way BD is extremely influential and the reboot Doom series takes a lot of inspiration from it
Brutal Doom isn't replacing OG DOOM. Nothing will ever replace OG DOOM. But it's a great option for those times where you just want to cause chaos and carnage.
Bds combat shits on OG doom
Just sounds like a nostalgia baby
What do you think of Prodeus? The game inspired by Brutal DOOM
Project brutaliy Black Hole Generator is all I wanted for a BFG, sorry... hadto say it.
Brutal Doom came out way before 2010