Thargoid War: Not what i thought it would be
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
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Frontier seem to have a habit of making things more intolerably grindy. Then they wind it back to as grindy as the majority of the player base will bare. Very poor.
I used to play on ps4. When I built my pc, I had my account transfered a couple years ago. I lost everything. All my elite status, engineers, engineered ships and weapons, everything. The knly thing I got to keep was my total value in credits. I quit playing for pretty much all that time because I just didn't want to grind 9ut all that reputation, engineers and guardian gear again. Now I'm back on and trying to get my corvette again and already feel like I shouldn't bother. I'm bored of the grind already
After going through the horror of collecting engineering material, I completely lost the will to play ED. I would like to come back and participate in the targoid war, but they way things work with war mechanics, I am not certain it would be a rewarding experience. They should just get rid of the timing limits or extend it by much longer time. I have enough deadlines at work already 😒
I wouldn’t focus much on the engineering if it had to start over. I’ve only got a couple engineer things just not really sure the need for it since I’m a solo player
@@roguereaper1330 As much as I complain about the bad bits, and there are many, it is still the best example of it's genre. I advise that you chip away at what you want rather than speed grinding it. If you join a friendly Sqn, it will make the game more enjoyable. Friendly fun activity, then a bit of grinding. I have all the credits and access, my favourite ships are the Phantom, the Python and the Anaconda.
@@AS-co8to There are other more fun things to do. It's a game after all. No need to do things you don't enjoy. I have pretty much just decided to ignore the Thargoids. As said in other videos, the Dev's aren't fools, they will dial it back to match whoever is doing this, and I assume, enjoys it.
Community Managers: We promise to communicate more to you folks about important changes coming to the game.
Fdev (day before reset): Ayo, the system you folks are working hard to flip we are going to reset tomorrow. Okay, bye! 😁
As for the “reset” in the system war after a week
How about this?
Just slightly push the bar back a little, but with a twist: the pushback on each week will be larger than the previous one
Done, there it is
An actual war of attrition (at least in my opinion)
Agreed. I don't dislike the Thargoids having some ability to push back (especially if FDev do go for it, and let the murder flowers be fully AI controlled instead of manually placed), but the all-or-nothing method does really make it seem like any further effort is wasted after the first few days
This would also validate the efforts of smaller player groups, because their contributions would not be entirely reset with each server tick. Sounds like a good idea to me.
good and valid point
+
is coerent with the lore about targoids will push with the will to destroy
Minor correction : If Thargoid Alert occurs in a populated system, it will also offer a few more steps to pushing it out of that state rather than just killing Thargoids. In an unpopulated system, of course, it will only give you the option to destroy their ships, but there is little reason to go there when a populated system risks coming under attack.
My views on the system aren't too complicated. I think, at least. I don't want it to be something that is super easy to complete, so if Frontier stays with the weekly reset but lowers requirements to push Thargoids out of a system, I hope they don't swing too far toward the other end.
Otherwise, if they keep things as they are, the weekly reset has to go because the required effort just seems like it's too much to do it in one week. The way the system has been designed with various tasks instead of just combat contributing to the progression seems good at the core, but the way it progresses is a little too slow for the way it is intended.
So yes, keep it a community effort but don't make it actually impossible. Such that we can at the very least slow down the Thargoid assault until some opportunity to make a focused pushback or to convince them we don't all want to fight(I am very much in favor of the latter instead of just more violence) comes up. It's not very engaging, or rather hope-inspiring, when you can't even hold one system with almost everyone focusing on it.
Personally, I think the "research" aspect of the update still feels a little lacking. When you retrieve an Orthrus sample and bring it over to Palin for literally nothing, it feels a little underwhelming. Unless we get a means of communicating with Thargoids or of seeing what's in the center of the Maelstrom, there isn't a whole lot to do there.
People shouldn't excuse the roll out of this though, to make your playerbase feel like they have wasted a ton of time is a really bad way to start off any update. It really would have made all of this a bit less obnoxious if the gameplay info would have been a bit more clear from the start. I play solo most of the time so this update is not for me, i'll just keep an eye on the "story" and just stick to what i have been doing lol.
It’s like the participants got ganked by the developers.
Same here. I found it very interesting to try out the fight against Thargoids, I won a few dogfights in a battle zone and thought: cool, a another thing that works without engineering. Then the big Salad came and showed me very quickly that I should grind properly before I even think about participating. So back to the usual.
Thank you for explaining this. I had not understood it before. My biggest concern is that a very large group of our most loyal players are BGS'rs, and the Thargoid BGS mechanic appears very, very strong. Basically, it's "stop what you're doing and play the way we tell you to play, or you lose." This goes against what I've seen was formerly one of the biggest strengths of ED, which is you can play your own way, out of a multitude of different activities. I'm worried they're going to drive the BGS'rs out, which would be bad for the game IMO.
Broken in more ways than one, had an invisible Cyclops in Wakata Station CZ again. Bar was full, it was the last target and couldn't be destroyed. Mission Boards were broken yesterday. Going to watch the progress on HIP 23716, there is a literal armada of commanders there around the clock. I'm sure we can manage it but it seems like it will be a slow war at the moment. One thing is for sure, players want to see evidence that they aren't just wasting time. If HIP 23716 turns purple this week, that will be a start.
That's one more reason they have the Legacy mode; for people who don't want to get involveed in the war. For me the version 4 shipyard's poor performance really bothers me.
One thing I wish they would have done was give us a bit of a warning before the invasion started because players like me who were scared of seeing a thargoid, are now scrambling and scraping together materials and credits to get guardian tech, weapons, ships, and engineer those ships within a short amount of time.
I almost have a Krait up and ready to go with
2x medium gauss
2x large ax multi cannon
1x large vented beam laser
2x A class shield booster heavy duty
1x Xeno scanner (mainly because I’m new and need target data)
1x Shutdown field negator
Internals consist of a 6c bi-weave shield and then cargo rack, repair limpet, hull reinforcements, and the afrm thing that repairs internals in case I were to have a weapon malfunction or so
Running deep plated heavy armor on A class military grade composite
To be fair, the firing of the Salvation weapon in HIP 22460 and the subsequent destruction by the thargoids, the Scream, the 3-4 months of Stargoids slowly approaching the bubble ... there's been more than a hint or two.
The Krait is my fave AX ship. I have 4 medium gauss and 1 vented beam laser. No shields, internals all hull and module reinforcements plus a repair limpet controller.
I mean I left just before the super weapon fired for a break, burn out of engineer material grinding, and I came back I think right on the tail end of the peace megaship only to see it destroyed like a week later, no idea about stargoids until I started doing my research on AX builds and combat, before then I thought there was just one type of interceptor only to find out there are 4 excluding scouts and stargoid
I am liking that this encourages folk to play together. I'm seeing more people playing in open and working together than I have in the past.
Sir, this is an online game. There is no such thing as teamwork. Worse is that FDev has so screwed the playerbase that if you told me a maximum of 30 players were online at any given time I would be incredibly surprised.
The problem isn't the reset! It's that the AX CZ's are bugged and don't finish, and therefore don't count as wins even when the bar is filled. This is the crux of the entire issue. FDev acknowledged this in the 14.01 patch notes. Until it's fixed, the war effort is screwed.
Thanks for bringing that glitch up. I was playing in open this morning with random players for about 45 minutes. Scouts all destroyed but no interceptor spawn. However I have seen interceptor spawn in private group instance without fail. Not sure if I was just lucky? It could be fdev really wants us to play in "teams"? More players concurrently on more of a AWS server discount.
Fortunately all kills and missions still count, even if the AX CZ doesn't complete.
@@spartansmsu93noob54 what teams?
LoL
you just cruise in and help to kill those alien bastards ^^
is a war
no time for pityful solos
I don't think we're supposed to stop them before they get to the bubble to be honest. If we beat them in a few weeks, the game will just be like it was before.
I think the engineers systems need to be attacked, then we could get more weapon upgrades as engineers are forced out, and cooperate with other engineers.
We have to remember it's a storyline, not just an attack to repel. The bubble has to be affected, it can't be fairytale ending or what was the point?
It's been said a lot by now, but I just wanted to feel like we did something and what FDev did was just utterly immersion breaking.
I don't think anyone wanted to "win" the war but we absolutely should have "won" HIP 23716 that week even if we lost the other 11 systems. It seems so obvious that the Alert/Invasion/Controlled ladder should have worked like you mentioned, we "win" that week and the ladder moves.... eg. invasion becomes alert. But most importantly your progress during the week should not be abandoned.
its a damn war
you help war efforts or you cry
when community will fight against targoid in a way a real war is made ... then you will win the systems back
then you all can return to your superhero lore where you kill everybody, alone 🤣🤦
im happy FDEVs made this war real, so entitled zoomers will understand they count 1 in a galaxy full of dangers🤣
and 1 vs an alien invasion ... count 0
ROFL🤣
Regarding the hero vs. realistic approach.
I would think the solo, heroic experience would be more attuned to a single player game with a linear storyline. Whereas in an online, more fluid game, the realistic approach of grouping together with the community makes more sense.
Maybe if they had something like the rank missions spawn for some players but not all or maybe x amount per hour and it's something that would be impactful but yet heroic feeling
You mean, "blaze your own trail" ? Seems ED already specified it's game type...
What has me concerned is that Elite doesn't appear to have a massive community at the moment. I worry that this thargoid war will require more players to participate than are actually playing the game. I know there was a mass exodus when Odyssey dropped, and FDev has failed to impress many in the updates since.
@@Dezibahn I can understand the concern but what mostly relieved my worry was the fact they are adjusting it and it appears it's close to the right tuning. So it looks like we are on track to just squeeze by securing our first system this week which I believe is about how it should be, it should take most of the week or close to all of the week.
@@Dezibahn Well this week has seen more commanders playing than at any time since Ody launched, so something is moving in the right direction.
I normally play solo or PG, but tonight I swapped to Open and fought alongside four other commanders in one instance and more than a dozen in another. Never met any of them before, they were all just there in open blasting away at the thargoids. It's not even the 'large group approved' thargoid system, just one I've been fighting in since the war started.
It doesn't matter how the individual system mechanics are balanced bc the devs can just tweak the number of new systems that go into alert. If the community is pushingbthe thargoids back faster than the devs would like then they can increase thargoid spread if the thargoids are gaining too much ground then the devs can slow there expanse very easily.
As for wednesday beung a null day, there's lots to do in elite dangerous wednesday is just another day to go do whatever you want to do, go mining or mapping or bounty hunting to upgrade your ship for next weeks thargoid hunt
The group play aspect is complicated, yeah jts nit great for solo players but what it does is give people a reason to go look for a community to join to go make new friends and occasional opportunities to bring the community together is always a good thing
Grinding in this game hurts I'm just going to say that outright. I have a lot of fun playing elite dangerous I absolutely love this game I'm so happy I bought it but my God the grind. I feel like I'm playing a free to play game such as war thunder and I don't know why since I paid $60 for this game. It feels like Fdev is afraid people will stop playing the game if they don't have something to do not realizing all this bloatware has caused me to take long breaks from this game more than anything, if you're a new player getting involved in the game right now in order to fight the alien threat you are facing a severe weeks long uphill battle of grinding before you can actually kill the murder flowers. Yes you can kill scouts but man does that get boring. Overall I think the designers are doing a good job dungeon mastering this war but they need to cut the grind out enough is enough.
I decided to stop playing when I found out about the reset. I abandoned the rescue missions I had, and thought "stuff it".
I think the idea that CMDRs are going to have to work together to hold the line or face a larger front i great, the question is, can we? So far the gankers have cost me more in rebuys than the bugs.
The biggest things I take away from this are
a) Frontier not communicating sufficiently how the system works.
b) The game lacking important tools for players to coordinate their efforts ingame sufficiently to satisfyingly play the event. Which is not surprising for ED.
At first I thought it was broken but it works a lot like power play if you think about assaulting and defending. It does still feel a bit jank and immersion breaking though. Just think of the thars as a really really really big power play member that wants to destroy all they take.
It can feel unfair because we didn't know it worked like this first week and people wasted time but I don't think knowing about it is unfair more inconvenient because you cant just play solo and take part you have to coordinate with others through discords to push certain systems everyone wants to.
PP we get to keep half our merits at the tick.
Having the progress bar reduced every week instead of completely reset would make our effort not feel totally wasted, specially for anyone playing on a Wednesday.
got very annoyed after the first week after a massive effort. now I don't care thx fdev
Honestly, I'm getting tired of these fdev simp arguments. This is a blatant misdirection that wasted everyone's time and, even according to you, makes it so people have to play a certain way or watch it all burn, the antithesis of what the game is supposed to be.
And probably that's the reason why power play is very unpopular.
Well, FDEV essentially told everyone it was going to be bad. You just have to look at their actions. It's never a good sign when you have to make a snapshot of your universe and place it in an entirely different game mode as a refuge from what you are about to unleash.
They did it because it's not just about the live events, it's also about the higher system requirements.
One reason the battle of stalingrad in WW2 lasted so long was when the russians killed all but 5% of the germans in a week,the germans would all pop back up,yell"surprise!",and fighting would resume.
3:00 This is perfect example of "make it logical for us (Frontier), not for end users" - in addition to a lot of other stuff in the game you have to look up online to understand.
imagine to being that dumb and dont undestand a so clear phrase
INFESTATION in 1W6D
6D of phase 2 (phase 1 was 7 days so why the second need to be different? lol)
and 1W of full targoid invasion (third phase)
after that (1w and 6d) the system will be INFESTATED by TARGOIDS
🤷🤷🤷🤷
wtf im italian and i understand english .... i play ED since 2 weeks ago ... but my clan knew what need to be done all the way since first day
infact they fights, they dont cry, they dont talk, they fights ^^
The faith of Last Thursdayisn is real in Elite Dangerous. This mechanic has convinced me that I need a break on Elite.
As someone who works long hours and can only play a few hours here and there I completely ignore these goals.
I guess the things that motivate me are the novelty of going down to settlements that have been destroyed or under attack and making enough money to get a fleet carrier.
As other creators have already pointed out, Fdev will be adjusting the amounts needed to win based on what they observed. Additionally it's quite likely that they intentionally wanted it to be impossible to win in the first week to set the tone of what a threat the thargoids are. This is supposed to have an apocalyptic feel - humanity could go the way of the guardians. Yes, this is hard. And it's not guaranteed we win. That's great! Those of us who participate in powerplay are very used to this weekly cycle. Having a Wednesday rest day to prevent burnout and give time for other activities like investigating the maelstroms is also a good thing.
I don't mind it being impossible to win early on, I do mind that the damage we inflict or aid we provide is wiped out. I'm not having a dig at you 07 commander.
@@jacobite1017 didn’t seem like a dig. It’s just a different game mechanic than you expected and you’re definitely free to your opinion. I like that this forces the playerbase to work together. It’s a war! Not a skirmish like in bgs but a real total war
I like the fact we're fighting an impacable foe and it's going to be a hard slog. The reset doesn't bother me in the slighest as it will be tweaked over time, and it's just not worth getting upset about.
It would be fine if the CZs actually worked properly without bugging and the thousands of pilots who all focused on HIP 23716 (mainly AXI) actually achieved the weekly goal.
I mean seriously, thousands of CMDRs couldn't beat one system out of like 50. We had every action highly organized from CZ, to encounters, to evacuations, to missions.
And the progress reset doesn't make any sense from a plot point. As someone else said "Did the Thargoids decide to recapture all the evacuated humans from the megaships and drop them back into the system just to screw with us?"
Absolutely devastated any enthusiasm I had in the first week after the reset. No way to win a single battle, no way to push them back even with so many players involved. And apparently all the people we rescued went back under thargoid rule after the server tick 🤣. Very immersion breaking and grindy, just like everything Fdev does. If they want to stick to their narrative so rigidly that they can't give us a single system, I guess I'll step back and let them tell their story in shitty cutscenes and news articles for now.
It's Frontiers way of putting a sad end ED, and shutting down the servers for good. "Oh well the Thargoids won guys, game over" A big f*** you to the community... I mean let's face it, ED is at this point just costing Frontier money, because the player base has done & moved on. They have been planning this as a way to end ED for good and give the middle finger to the community that worked so hard for nothing...
AXI is doing a tremendous job of fighting back, I play this game alone as none of my friends play, jumping into AXI Discord and their Private Group has been an incredible experience so far, highly recommend if interested in helping out!
It is not that the reset is unfair. It is that a reset, essentially a step back in time, is illogical. Time, even in a game universe, should only go one way, and that way is forward.
So, if players don't coordinate things...and even if they do, will it mean there could be a gradual Thargoid takeover of the Bubble like a cancer due to the Thursday update thing?
I have played plenty of games that have had things that feel really aggressive towards the player at first, only to be adjusted later.
I don't think the system is built for Commanders to be able to make massive strides against the Thargoids _yet._ There's still the Maelstroms and how at present no one can actually investigate them beyond trying to scramble up to what may well be just the entrance before either the Stargoid f-bomb hits and\or the caustic damage eats a Commander's ship alive.
I'm figuring that once counters for both are released, _then_ we'll start seeing huge strides from the players to retake systems.
I agree that it kinda sucks that there's not power fantasy involved with the war. I feel like the community has been the endgame for E:D for a while though, joining a group and helping their efforts. You can do things on your own, though finding just about anything in this game by yourself is crazy difficult. So much of this game require the tools and knowledge of the community that I feel like making the war this way makes sense.
Simply removing player progress each week is pretty rough though. If it was rolled back to 75-50% of the progress or something, then at least all the work wouldn't be wasted.
I think the point is it's supposed to feel impossible right now. The invasion just started, right. I think we're supposed to feel like we're losing at this point and the whole bubble us at risk if we don't coordinate our efforts. And a lot of people have previously been vocal in wanting the bubble to burn. Now people get that they still whine. I think the real problem is FDEV hadn't adequately explained how the system worked until too late at the end of the first week so of course some were nonplussed at losing progress. I think it's fine and we need to see how the addition of more anti-thargoid eventually change the situation.
CORRECTION : Thargoid Alert systems will have evac missions if the system i populated. it may not count towards the progress. players who want to avoid thargoids but want to make some credits or grade 5 engineering materials can go into Thargoid Alert systems to run the evacuation missions. you may still have interdiction but it will be less in Thargoid Alert systems
the game is unenjoyable grinding
The problem with this, is like everything that's important in the game. Unless you are actively reading guides online, you're at the very least at a distinct disadvantage.
From an in-game perspective I think it would help those players (singular or in small, "independant" groupings) who *don't* have access to meta-gaming sources such as AXI's Discord channel (to mention the most OBVIOUS example) at least *some* inkling as to where they could help to make a difference. Maybe FDev could mention, as part of their in-game (and BGS) annoucements, could mention where various type of PC activity (anti-xeno, cargo delivery, or passenger evac) as a whole seem to be centred or most concentrated for any particular time period (1-3 days, perhaps?).
I dont believe the reset is the appropriate thing to do. they should have just left it as grindy as it used to be but have no reset in place. Imagine rescuing 1.6 million people from a system only for them to to decide to just come back to the system you just saved them from just because you didnt get the bar to 100%. its very inmersion breaking. Instead they should have a limit for each objective and once its completed it gets a checkmark in the objectives bar. That way everyone gets a sense of completion once the objective is met and people can refocus to the rest of the needed objectives in a system.
HIP 23716 is nearly on 40% this week.
They may have already made changes behind the scene.
Even American cell phone companies give you rollover. Maybe FDev could give us a partial rollover to the next weeks progress. 100% setback jus5 doesn’t seem natural.
Agreed. It is like a ball game playoff one loss and reset to next season! This doesn't feel like a war but just another fdev grind!
I'm not a good AX combat fighter so trying to help out running evac\dilvery missions but the mission boards are broken, can not complete them (Completed board not loading with Stand By bug) - tried relogging - open\private\solo nothing works - FDev really needs to address these bugs 😞
Frontier need to get their heads out their ass. If this is how the war they want to work; than they need to spend some of that money and improve the net code. Not that it will ever happen. We won't win against the Thargoids through attrition (how many CZ's have 'you' won?) This game is now on life support; regardless what prople believe. It's only a matter of time if things don't change.
One of the issues with this system is that it feels incredibly gamey. Rather than an ebb and flow of battle, the Thargoids randomly reinforce all of their stations every Thursday at random, enough to entirely undo our progress. A pushback system where SOME progress is lost every week but not all would feel a lot more natural and make spread out efforts not completely meaningless.
@@underleft Refugee evacuation missions have no correlation to system population, they're just cargo that materializes out of thin air to give CMDRs a non-violent way of moving the progress bar, which is effectively just a reskin of the minor faction influence bar. Complete with resetting every weekly tick.
Who do people say that Frontier Developments overpromise and underdeliver with low-effort content? Am I missing something?
if theyre going to be making it more normal to confront thargoids they need to make AX weapons not awful for interceptors . I love the game, been a player forever. theres a barrier to entry to thargoid combat that the playerbase refuses to accept. and that's that the avarage person who doesnt put 12 hours into elite everyday doesnt have as easy as access to effective thargoid countermeasures. elite players dont want to admit its a time sink but it is. they will die on the hill saying you can just go buy a chiefften and slap on all AX weapons and it will work or a krait with some AX multicannons and you can just go into interceptor combat. and the reality is you cant. you gotta have so much prep. like everything else. you need engineers. you need a completly different ship configuration and for people who like to multirole main their ships it means completely reoutfitting and rengineering your bigger ships. and as much as the community doesnt want to admit that those people exsist and are a fair portion of the games playerbase, they are.
I wish there were better in-game tools to coordinate, as now I have to track down information out of game to be effective in game. I do that enough already.
They ought to just change the "Thargoid Alert" systems to be able to be repelled by a small group of ppl, but there would need to be more than just shooting thargoids to help repel them. Then have maybe the "Thargoid Invasion" systems, where like 50% of these can be dealt with by a smaller group of people, but 50% would need the large scale player groups to repel them. Perhaps the populated systems would need the large community groups to deal with, while the unpopulated systems could be for the smaller groups. Then you could choose whether to play with the large groups of players, but also preserve a way for solo/smaller groups to be able to affect things as well. Or have like a 50/50% split for "Alert AND Invasion" to be dealt with by larger/smaller groups allowing more choice by the community. This would also give us something to do when it becomes clear a "Large Group" system will have to be "Repeated" because there is not enough time left to clear the larger systems near the server tick, and players can shift focus to the ones meant to be cleared by smaller groups at the end of the week so as to have SOMTHING to do.
They should have that new tech comes out during the war with the Thargoids that are made to resist their attacks and do more damage to them. That the invasion causes an arms race within the human governments to develop armor and weapons even ships to combat the threat they pose. Like armor resistant to corrosive damage or weapons that do more damage. I know they already did that with the enhanced AX multi cannons, but it can be more than that. Haven't played Elite in months and I just don't have the time to grind guardian tech and materials to actually fair well against Thargoids.
All things must fall, including the bubble, plus it's a war, a single person can't win a war, this is a full on blown war, a realistic simulation, ED is not your the main character, your just another soul trying to live
Wasnt E:D always about solo player not having much impact on the simulation?
OMG... look,... my sister married a Thargoid just before the first Stargoid was spotted and she told me my new brother-in-law, whom we have to call 'it' around my Mother (yep, she's from 3252 and you know what they were like back then!), said "clickety-click click click clickety (screech) click Click-screech"... roughly translated as "You humans have had years grinding mats with constant 'buffs' (I'm assuming 'updates' fits here) and we've had none of that, while we were sitting twiddling our appendages in Witchspace so, yes, _Th'E-BRaBEN_ appeared one 'day?' to let us know that while the main Thargoid fleet did it's thing, the trillion-or-so of us who invested our (untranslatable) in 'ships' would have to be off grinding for mats and this would be shown in our 'war-stats' as a buff of our very own".
I'm assuming the translation was accurate but it could just be 'It' (or _Nathan_ as 'it' insists it's called) sneezed and my sis got it wrong... who knows.
Game design is a multi-disciplinary task involving audio design, visual effects, AI and gameplay loops and mechanics. Elite Dangerous scores highly in audio and visual effects, especially audio but the folks designing gameplay loops and mechanics need to catch up.
I just don't want to lose my home system Not targeted yet, but probably next, it feels hopeless
We had over 4800 to 1 kill ratio over the goids in hip 23716. What kill ratio or how many goids have to die before the bar is moved. I know I have resources that are limited. The Bugs seem to have unlimited supplies. That is where the problem seems to lie! Most of us want to see a goal in order to obtain it. We usually get the enemies strength in numbers. Hopefully this will get fixed.
This might have been said already, as I'm rather late with this comment. But at least according to the UI, unpopulated systems will go directly from "Alert" to "Controlled".
As for the reset, losing all progress seems a bit off-putting. I'd rather see something like this: The bar starts at 50% and ticks toward 0 by 10% each week. That way not all progress is lost, and the time to Thargoid control may be extended if a system is not won immediately. AndFDEV could adjust the starting point and tick amount as well as how fast the bar is moved by the players.
The biggest problem i see with this is that most of cmdr concentrate on one system and they pushed itbit over 50% So does Frontier expect that all players start fghting or what?
There is a simple solution to the problem of Frontier not wanting us to push the Thargoids back too quickly:
Up the numbers required to push them back in time, that's it, that's all it needs.
If important systems (those with major starports and high population) required significantly more effort to take back than less important or uninhabited systems then that would present the playerbase with a choice:
Spread out and focus on driving them out of numerous minor systems before the 6 weeks ends (quantity over quality) OR group together, pool all of our resources and drive them out of maybe 2 or 3 major systems.
Simply resetting player progress isn't the solution.
It just makes players feel like all the time, all the effort that they put into the last week was completely wasted.
It's frustrating and is only going to serve to drive away the playerbase when they feel like their time isn't being respected by the developers.
They left the game to die first, after some time they tried cpr the game with this Thargoid thing and when they saw that there is some pulse left, now they are choking the game by the neck...incredible..the community got together and tried to make a difference and Fdev said ... u to everyone, well done.
Thats how it feels
lol devs make a mistake after releasing a long-term war simulation but yet of course the game is dying and they did it on purpose, you doomposters are the gift that keeps on giving
Geez ... they make changes because people complain, then they complain about MAJOR changes. Incredible. Oh it's too hard now? Whah!!!! Just play the game.
It's a delicate balance it will take some time and a lot of game play data to see if it needs adjusting. So many different factors to consider. That being said with us having to fight an 8 front war, I don't know if elite has a large enough of a player base to be victorious. There are so many things that are still unknown. For anyone who thinks this is some 2 month long extended CG or something. You are very wrong. The war is the game now and victory is going to take a highly coordinated effort. I think this war should be hard, but it can't be so hard that it takes the enjoyment out of the game. I believe the key to winning if figuring out the New Tharg Interceptor and how it relates to their expansion and the Maelstroms. And yes, there are a few bugs, it's called game DEVELOPEMENT for a reason. Bugs are also fixable. Coding a game, the size of Elite Dangerous, is no easy task
This model is doomed to fail. Peak interest was always going to be in the earliest stages of the war with players falling off as time progresses. Despite this spike in interest, the goal was not met and progress was reset. If the goal was unreachable even with peak player interest, then it's only going to become completely pointless as players fall away.
I've been out in the black for months exploring and was thinking about coming back to fight in this war, but I have no interest in this game-loop and having my time wasted because FDEV likes to turn everything into a grindy, pointless mess, so I'm not coming back - I'm staying out and if the bubble burns, it burns. I care less than FDEV at this point.
This system will be tweaked by fdev over time. It has only been one week. We’re already setting faster progress than last week.
Of course, they will. Just like it always is, but folks are going to cry foul in the meantime -- as always.
It's what this player base is most famous for.
As someone who isn't anti-xeno (personally I believe humanity deserves this - we stole their crops, murdered their explorers, and tried to commit species-wide genocide against them TWICE) I'm just not playing the game until this is over. I was going to play some around the Colonia Highway, but then FDev said the goids will not stop at the bubble and push towards Colonia. So...what's the point? I refuse to do AX and unless or until others do, it's all going to get wiped out anyway.
So GG FDev, I played this game around 3 days a week, every week, for 6 years and you finally pushed me to quit. I'll come back after the war but I could not be less interested in this if I had to.
It's not a bad system.
Its just people don't understand the system and the people that do understand it don't explain it well.
In most simple terms I can explain it is.
Each time we don't fill the bar in a week we loose stations to the goids.
After we loose all stations we loose the system.
But if at any point we fill the bar we win the system.
The weekly resets are for the stations not the system.
But if we win the bar we get the system.
The system is stacked in humans favor not thargoids like people are saying.
The progress rate will be adjusted with time.
Like it or not its better that fdev set the goals to high than to low.
Imagine the outrage if it was too easy to win system and fdev made it harder.
People would be really angry at that.
@@TheWeeJet Post of the thread. Thank you for the common sense, Cmdr.
This is all well and good, banding together and fighting.
The 900lb gorilla in the room is that the CZs keep breaking and are not spawning ships correctly with so many players present. That means the higher value targets like interceptors are hard to kill when they don't show up. That really is hampering efforts.
Once again, FDev has failed the players by not fixing known instancing problems.
I have not fought the Goid before so I went to the AXI page at the beginning and started refugee runs on day one. I'm good with how it's shaking out, looks like a little adjustment is happening, looks like it's doable. Now that I'm getting used to the goo getting shot at me I'm contemplating bringing out the Krait Mk II I set up for it a while back, but I'm having fun doing the rescue work, and I don't really have the time I want right now to learn a new method of combat. As for the WWIIX aspect of the War, that's what total war is, gather allies or lose, always happy to see a dose of reality in my gaming, I might join AXI just to have some people to chat with while flying
i believe perforce our only option is to rely on the sanity of the gaming masses, to come together as one, and work cooperatively, without coercion, for our mutual defense and benefit
or in other words, we're freaking doomed
Frontier has basically set up all you PC Elite Dangerous Odyssey players to fail. However I will say this: This war would be easier to fight if FDEV wouldn't have ABANDONED console players.
Is this an oddysey thing?
Because I play horizons on xbox, and I cannot see any damaged port, I haven't encountered any thargoid yet. Even in the supposed invaded systems.
Also I cant buy the bew ax-weapons anywhere and there is no CG showing at all...
I don't think that the reset is a problem it would have been better if they have just said from the beginning that progress would reset every week. The real problem is that half of the objectives don't work. They clearly wanted us to work together on this but you simply have so many problems with the instances and also yesterday with the mission boards not loading it just feels like a waste of time most of the times. Joined about 10 AX CZ in open and private groups in the last couple of days and only in one of them it spawned interceptors and after killing the first wave there weren't any other.
In short if the game worked properly it wouldn't be that much of an issue.
Working as intended? Interceptors invisible and invulnerable and stuck loading in is INTENDED? How?
They know about this problem and they are working on a fix
@@SageKing09816 Working on a fix maybe, but won't throw us a bone because of it...
Community goal, without which it may be impossible to complete in the reset time frame set currently.
As a solo mode player hunting the "Mysteries" of the game is what l am after in the game, going out exploring, finding glues that led to rumours that sends you here & winning my own battles getting there then finding the reward is the fun of a game so these big community endeavours needing co-operative exploring/fighting limits my play so l have to Goggle. That said it would be great if there was an easy way to mix the two types of players, like having many of the community tools integrated into the game as plugin addons would help to make it easier for Solo's to help with "We Need Your Help"/"Call to Arms" missions & "Don't Waste Ammo" alerts
I think let the thargoid think they’re winning, meanwhile we have people developing new and improved AX, then guardian enhanced with the gaurdian/thargoid relic technology. We the Pilot Community will be back to reclaim our space. We can be sneaky just like them
Big problem is not being able to complete Combat Zones thanks to bugs and lags.
I would like to see the build of the ship in this vid.
The bar resetting is equivalent to "we didn't roflstomp stomp them quick enough and their re-enforcements arrived"
Now that there is a full on war with the Goids, FDEV should remove the 4 AX weapon restriction and the Guardian grind for weapons. Getting hamstrung by restrict weapons load in not how to fight a war. Overwhelming and superior fire power...this is the way.
Something I’ve personally can’t handle is glitches in the game. So many times an invisible interceptor has halted an entire combat zone.
Earlier today I saw a Farragut outside a star station. By far one of the coolest things I’ve seen in game… except for the fact it didn’t move smoothly. Wish I could’ve recorded it, but it didn’t move smoothly and looked stupid.
While Thargoids are swarming the Bubble… it seems that different bugs have also emerged.
Knocking back the bar to 0 seems a bit harsh.
they could knock off say 50% of the progress (linear scaled, 50% of actual progress not 50% of target), showing the thargoids reacting proportionally to the threat.
I know it's still early but do we know if maybe pushing thargoids back at "system alert" is easier then? Cause if that's the case maybe the community should commit to stopping the spread before pushing back on already assaulted systems.
All I can say for now is : this update made me re-install and play the game once again...I dropped it when Fdev released odyssey. I consider that a good think I guess.
The UI for the evacuations is broken. No way I’m wasting time on the tedious menu diving just to have it go to waste and be reset. If there’s millions to evacuate surely I can load more than a half a dozen in one mission? I’m spending more time repetitively clicking on menus than flying. This is supposed to be a game, not a job.
I’d like to see them implement a “direction of the war” system. The reset doesn’t actually bother me much. I get it from a purely game design perspective. They need to be able to tweak numbers behind the scene. But I think that if we manage to get something to 90% one week, it should greatly diminish the capabilities the next. So having some marker that indicates the previous week’s progress, even if it’s just a placebo, would help to alleviate the community’s concerns.
We all want are individual heroics to matter…. Sadly, most of the time, for most people that is not reality. Finding out your just a cog in a machine can be unsettling for some folks. No spotlight? They pickup their toys and go home.
I do understand the strugle. But the reset is still bad. Make to lose progress every week, but not to reset.
The problem is not that we feel overwhelmed, but the fact that we feel that we are useless, and does not matter what we do.
Thanks for the clarification, I was confused about this and was on the side that progress shouldn't be wiped but then seeing that it's in stages and not just 1 event it all started making sense and is understandable.
Im struggling with this. I quit trading to join the war but I just keep getting blown up looking for scouts to fight. The whole Thursday server reset thing is laughable.
Perfectly good Powerplay system to base it off of, and FDev basically goes with a Community Goal that resets.
That said,
I am fine with this being a war that none of us asked for, I'm eveb fine with it being a war that can overpower us.
I just don't see a resetting progress bar as the best way to execute it.
It simply feels too grindy like usual FDev approaches.
FDev has consistently made lazy game design choices since Odyssey.
Really knee capping Elite slowly every time they touch the game.
If I start playing the game right now, can I fight the Thargoids? Or would I have no chance against them without first grinding for special and robust loadout that's tailor made to defeat them?
What are the minimum requirements to join in the fight and actually be capable of taking down some Thargoids? For example, if I have a Vulture with decent specs (but no special anti-xeno gear), should I just avoid Thargoids, or can I take 'em on?
No you can jump right in provided you have enough for a relatively cheap ship like a vulture. Though I've seen harmless cmdrs in vipers.
You just have to pick up some ax multi cannons, and it's a good idea to have a wing so that you don't pull a ton of agro.
Add me if you want, Cmdr Kaizaki. I have a buddy who was flying a vulture last night at Wakata, he made 200mil without even ax weapons :D
@@kaizaki9148 I bought Elite a long time ago, got a couple billion credits mining Void Opals and Low Temperature Diamonds, bought a dozen ships, engineered a few, did some bounty hunting, avoided Thargoids because I assumed they were like the Borg and I would be no match. I've only ever played in Solo mode, never saw any real people because I assumed they would just bully me, I don't know how the wing system works, I have no friends, and I'm currently on Mitterand Hollow orbiting New Africa, because that experience of orbiting around a planet that fast in VR freaked me out and I was hesitant to go back in there and try to get off that rapidly orbiting nightmare of a moon. So i haven't played ever since, and that was years ago. The other day I was considering playing again, but now I'm worried I'll just get destroyed by Thargoids (since I'm always alone and don't know much about them).
@@DerekMoore82 I am in a very similar position to you, as far as I can tell you can take on thargoid scouts with AX multi-cannons (no engineering/guardian stuff) but even base level interceptors require you to have guardian gauss cannons for you to be effective, plus you really need a strong hull which again requires engineering. If you want to try figuring it out together, let me know!
@@LawrenceYule I might have access to Guardian stuff, and I might have a good hull, it's been so long I can't remember what all I have. I know I still have a billion credits. I would be willing to try working together with a real person for the first time, if you have a microphone and we chat on discord or something while we play together a little, that could be a fun experiment. (Provided the wife and kids will let me have a few hours of game time).
If you want to take on more than scouts solo, you need to get guardian weapons and some degree of engineering done. All combat zones have npc helping fight and support players. If you've done human combat zones, it's very similar in how it works. Small weaker ships at first (thargoid scouts), then special ops or captains jump in (thargoid interceptors). You can let the NPC do most of the damage to the interceptors , just get a few hits in, don't get aggro, and focus on killing the scouts. Thargoids are meant as end game, why it requires grind for guardian weapons and engineering on your ship. I highly recommend playing in open as the systems players are focusing on will have a lot of players in the combat zones, with better ships to take on the tougher goids. You'll be rich in no time doing it in open.
I live in Colonia. Frankly, I'm not caring about much that happens in the Bubble.
I thnk it's fair that you can only push them out of a system if you hit that 100% mark...
...BUT: I think getting that bar to at least 75% should have a visible effect as well. Ideas could be that one (or more) stations in system come back online (narrative: The factions dare to return if a certain level of security got met) or the invasion status does get knocked back a step, with "Alert" being the lowest possible (narrative: The Thargoids need to regroup due to the losses suffered).
Because IMO it's the "all-or-nothing"-approach that's so upsetting to the playerbase, not the fact that you need a complete victory to successfully repel the 'goids.
Is this really a more realistic approach (9:30)? I have been trying to think of any war in history where progress on one side is scrubbed once a week - but nothing springs to mind.
I realise the context is singe player v community efforts but there are much more effective ways to engage the player base. Fdev do try but sadly they have a remarkable propensity for shooting themselves in the foot.
The problem to follow large group of the people right now, is current state of the game - so buggy, laggy and crushing that is making impossible to organise it on large scale. This week with group of 30 pilots we tried to fight on one the system. Numbers of the problems and issues makes game impossible. Looks like Frontier wants to kill ED.
Personally im of the opinion that fdev is actively placing us at a disadvantage, and throwing humanity on the back foot for this conflict at least at first. Until we develop the tech and coordination to push back effectively, we are going to be losing. We havent faced anything like this before, and what would be the fun in killing off the entire invasion in the first two weeks and this narrative phase just ends. We gotta work together on this one, coordinate on a scale that hasnt been done before.
imo let the bubble burn and let the inevitable rescues from other technologically advanced aliens save us. gg ez
I've been playing for years and know next to nothing about combat, I'm grinding federation rank in Ochosi. I'm almost certain a vanilla Federal Corvette won't be sufficient for killing thargoids, I'm trying to reach a point where I can be proficient when the time comes to fight. admittedly I'm not looking forward to grinding to ensure my ship fires punishing shots, has good shields etc.
Get a chieftan or challenger if you have the credits you can buy the ship - no unlocking required.
The fact that they bothered duplicating the whole game database and make a pre-war version accessible ("Legacy", with server structure and all), shows to me that they are willing to take risks here. You don't spend money on a seperate server cluster for an 8 year old game, selling for the price of a hamburger, to just run a global version of CZs in 50 systems. My guess is that they want this to feel like an actual invasion of a superior enemy and quite possibly double down on those lasting changes that player decisions should have on the galaxy. This will be a multi stage event and they will surely make us adapt, like they did with the new enhanced AX weapons already. But we will and are supposed to loose alot first. And with how Thargoids are presented lore-wise this does make sense. All while a single commander still isn't under too much preasure. Don't like the war? Just don't go to the like 50 Systems out of literal millions. Even the bubble itself is still 99% safe. Other commanders will take care of the arc, much like with any other CG.
But I can't really warp my head around where this is actually going. On one side I'm pretty sure that we get a way to defeat each Stargoid/Maelstrom down the road and return the galaxy to a somewhat normal state. Again, you don't spend money on an 8 year old game to run that new instance directly into oblivion. If the fight is senseless, players will stop particiapting. If nobody participiates, the thargoids will win. If they win and everything is just gone, players will just continue playing on legacy with their known regular galaxy. Making that whole investment a total backfire.
As evident, the current way of how the war is handled doesn't really vibe with the community. And while there is still a possibility that they intended to do this in the first place: I really hope someone at FDev takes note of the comments here. I've seen very good proposals to make the war system feel alot better. The segmented pushback from @SLATLUX is my personal favourite. They could still implement it while following their apocalypse flow. The Thargoid attack waves should run out of reinforcments after a while after all. So it would make sense to have those "reinforcement waves" each week (which I guess is what the are, conceptually) get less powerful.
But then again, since this is playing out on a seperate instance, they seem to have very impactful things in mind. We might even enter a Avenger arc or, depending on the outcome, a Colonia Resetlement arc. Simply having a few systems destroyed from a war, really doesn't sound like a compelling argument to essentially double your server costs. Again, it's 8 years after launch, it sells for the price of a burger, Odyssey was a disaster (I like it though) and they really shouldn't be expecting any rising income. If everything budgets where cut. You may have seen the war cinematic (how could you not?). Even with potentially half the bubble destroyed from war, I really can't picture them running double the server costs for just that. I mean...just make the destroyed systems repairable over time, very much like it works already. This all indicates to me that this war will at least be long and hard and we might not see a change in the war mechanics for a long while...
I said before that I'm pretty sure we get a way to fight the Stargoids and I still think that we will. However I can also picture them planning to have the war play out for the rest of the E:D lifetime. That there will be no end and in that instance CMDRs are doomed to run from the thargoids. Really putting the "Dangerous" back into Elite. Maybe we will manage to destroy a few of them and feel the dawn of victory....only for hundreds to appear all over the bubble. It could make for an interesting universe, allthough you won't be able to do much of the stuff you are used to. Which would be a valid reason to run it on a seperate instance. But there is also a very high chance that players will just play Legacy instead.
8 years into post-launch-development my guess is that this decision was made so they can have a final firework in the universe, while still having a backup where players can experience the "old" E:D. They outright said that it's because of the impending changes to the galaxy. But while I would like one of the above to be true I find it hard to believe, that we will get more than a very hard war with little rewards. Making the war mechanic is comparitevly easy, since it reuses many established mechanics (hyperdiction, thargoid interceptors/scouts, CZ/regular war mechanics). But adding additional content will be hard and requires additonal budget. The cobra engine is beyond it's time and many who where familiar with it left the studio years ago. In comparison: We still don't have fully functioning AA.
Leading me to believe, that we won't see a change in war mechanics and that we are supposed to loose quite a lot of systems. If we get a chance at all. But if they go for that road, I hope it will at least be a glorious fight. And: make our fights matter. The Thargoid invasion itself can still be overwhelming, but the >whole community< should be able to fight for a few systems at a time, not just a single one. Which I think would be best fixed by employing @SLATLUX's solution and have the Thargoids progress their invasion in smaller capacities, whilst increasing the effort it takes to fully liberate a system. That way we can fight on more frontlines without loosing all progress, already giving as a very welcomed variety, apart from the #1 hotspot on the AX webpage.
Rewarding the community (more) for participating in any AX mission/rescue effort, should also be something to look at. Right now you will get a few credits for the kill shot on scouts. More players = more action, but less credits. And once you leave to turn in your rewards, gankers are just waiting to shred through your AX build. Given, this isn't the general experience, but I have seen it happen way too much. This will drive away players. Yeah the war is cool to look at. Much like Beagle Point, or Colonia. But you go there like once and that's it. Because apart from the visuals, which you can keep an image of in your mind, there is no siginificant reward. And in this case, you also risk rebuying. We desperatly need rewards for participating in war and bounties for those working against it. Otherwise there is no need for anyone to participate in the war, other than digital patriotism.
I really like the idea that we need to coordinate. What I'm missing is good tools for us to do that, especially for new and less invested players. For the larger and established groups, they have communities for it, bot if you're nor that much part of the community, it's hard.
I mean, I put a lot of hours into Elite, but mostly on simpit builds. I'm not actually playing that much, and when I do, I don't find people to play with as much as I want to.
what tools?
you just watch the galaxy map
search for war efforts and help 🤷
big clans will push and solos will help
targoids will die
then you can return to your grind
its a fuckin war🤣
you dont go around on war ground and cry about difficult it is to move and do things
LoL🤣🤦
plus everyone with a brain will understand those 3 phases clearly
you never saw a space movie?
first and third phase: destroy targoids
second phase: help the system
its so simple 🤷
It should be similar to Power Play. Every week you should lose half of your progress. The system state should progress but even in real prolonged battles you rarely lose of your progress.
With all due respect, your chieftain build hurts my very soul.
As for the war, weekly reset bad, bringing players together by making them focus on a small handful of systems is great. Fdev have fractured the community badly in the past 18 months, this has finally done something to bring us back together.