WTF WE HIT TRENDING #35?! *Markiplier is the greatest.* *EDIT 2: after my interview with Liam, I allowed them to view the video and sign off on it before release. They did.* However, upon the release of this video, according to Liam, "Fanverse devs" began reaching out to them and _threatening_ to report them to Scott for speaking with me (here is their exact statement i.imgur.com/SM8a12n.jpg ). Liam was obviously panicked, and after some back-and-forth, I agreed to remove one word from this video (4:08), as a courtesy to Liam. To be honest, it's kind-of obvious what it is and 250k viewers already saw it, but whatever - removing this one word has very little impact on the video, and if it makes Liam feel better, it's fine. However, It's incredibly messed up that these Fanverse devs would allegedly try to threaten and intimidate Liam over an intellectual property _they have no ownership rights over.*_ If Liam is telling the truth (and I've found them to be credible and have no reason to believe they aren't), these Fanverse devs that are allegedly harassing and threatening Liam are clowns. Who the hell do they think they are? The "defenders of FNAF?l" Work on your _games;_ you aren't Scott. _Aftonbuilt_ has showed us more actual progress than _most_ official Fanverse games have. That's reality. **[UPDATE]**After asking around enough, I was finally able to track down a screenshot of the alleged "legal threats" referenced above (Liam has not replied since I let them know I made the cut for them). While I of course didn't see the whole conversation, if that is indeed all there was to it, then it's definitely not a case of what _I_ would refer to as threats. Nothing else Liam said was suspicious, and they had overwhelming evidence that supported their entire story. A lot of this evidence is included in the video, in the form of the pitch videos. Furthermore, no one has disputed the factual validity of Liam's claims in this video. They were credible, and this is a good example of why I worded the above so carefully *EDIT:* the response to this video has been overwhelmingly positive. I'm incredibly grateful, and I'm appreciative that people were able to empathize with Liam and the Jelatine team's situation. It sucks. However, this isn't about "Scott bad/Jelatine good". We don't need to "take sides" on every conflict or disagreement. This situation is complicated, and while I empathize with Liam and Jelatine, I also understand Scott has a ton of stuff on his plate while he manages a big franchise. It's just an unfortunate outcome; we don't need to point fingers. DESCRIPTION: It was really cool of the dev to share this insight with us, and their frustrations are really understandable. I think we can all agree that _Aftonbuilt_ is an _incredibly_ impressive demo. The work speaks for itself. While it wasn't meant to be, I'm excited to see what the _Aftonbuilt_ contributors bring us in the future! Please show them some love; nothing in this video wouldn't have been possible without them and their hard work.
Theft I got a question for you, there seems to be a lack of proof in this video. Were you showcased evidence prior to the release of this video? If not, I highly suggest you take this down until significant evidence is shown, as you could be spreading serious slander about Scott.
I feel it took so long for Scott to decide whether to greenlight it or not was due to the state Security Breach was in. Security Breach clearly was a disaster behind the scenes and seeing as it was the most ambitious project FNAF has had I'm not surprised Scott was a bit nervous to greenlight any other project like that. Once Security Breach came out and the reception it got, it was probably the final nail in the coffin for this game.
Swcurity breach was actually going pretty smoothly with little to no objections during the development phase. If it werent for them constantly adding new ideas on the fly ut would've been amazing
I think Security Breach REALLY messed up Scotts thoughts on very ambitious games. Security Breach was a very ambitious game and it wasnt handled very well and i think that Scott is just scared of something like Security Breach happening again
@@sirbachelorboredmen1314 Actually it wasn't the fans fault, it was revealed that it was actually because they had a deadline to do with a agreement with Playstation. Since FNAF Security Breach was a PS4/5 exclusive for a while. And they were forced to do the rest without the assistance of Scott, who also retired at the time
I’m just shocked that Scott is seemingly insisting on carrying this multi million dollar franchise singlehandedly. The man is co-authoring books, thinking about merch, inspecting new games, handling FNAF’s legal weight and dealing with this fanverse stuff whilst communicating solely through email. All the while in the midst of retirement. Whilst trying to raise half a dozen children. All of this would’ve gone so much better if Scott hired a handful of people to at least offer some input in certain areas or even outright manage them on his behalf. I understand that trust is a big factor here but it would absolutely free up his schedule. Fuck, he could hire a guy to sift through his emails at least. It’s impressive that he’s been acting as a one man army for so long but one person can only do so much.
Yeah, I highly respect him for handling the franchise almost single-handedly all these years, but he really needs to hire someone or several people to decrease the workload on him, so he can spend time with his family and so he doesn't take several weeks to do things like respond to emails.
He is afraid that without him people would get a little greedy and we will end up getting multiple shitty mobile games , Horrible soulless walking simulators And ruined lore
Have the creators of AftonBuilt considered using this game as a basis to create a non FNaF related game and pitching it to publishers? The concept itself is really good, and they would only need to create new models for the already built game. The fact that they have put so much time into this makes it feel even more viable. Surely, right? I mean, they even just change the FNaF related things into a Frankenstein-esque monster builder kind of thing. I'm not saying it wouldn't be difficult and time consuming, but it seems like a legitimately sellable idea with a bit of changing.
As a programmer (IT), If they signed the contract given to them at the end (the one where scott allowed them to continue but no crowdfunding) then no. It would cause a legal battle if they continue it. They either have to give up and hand over the project and source code to Scott, or they have to pay Scott's investment to their project (ie that money they got so they could continue, this is before the contract) in order to regain back the rights to the project. And if they did manage that, they have to rework the assets for the animatronics and story. If not, then they have to start over. And use their experience to recreate it or make a new game.
@@ashurad_fox5991 Wait, but if Scott only gave the time that money in goodwill, no contract or anything involved, why could they not just continue? And doesn't the video cover the contract? I think in the end they didn't sign it.
@@MDG-mykys its similar to how you cant plagiarize other peoples papers in school, you want to say the same thing but its illegal to say the same words
This is a really tricky conflict and, frankly, it'd be arbitrary to try and pick sides on who was right and wrong in this particular scenario. My take on this and what can be learned from it is simple: Don't rely your ambition and expectations from your project on an outside influence. The "Fazbear Fanverse" Initiative is one of those that sounds good on paper but slowly starts falling apart the more you think about it, all due respect to Cawthon. A good way to describe it would be "a concept many people are interested in being a part of but don't quite understand how said concept works or what led to creating it to begin with". My take on the F.F. initiative is a concept originated so Scott could license classic FNaF fan-creations that became iconic parts of the game's culture (Candy's. Flumpty's. TJoC, etc.) that slowly evolved into one that could license newer fan-creations that would grow big enough to become very popular outside the FNaF community. I don't think anything such as "Applying for the Fanverse" could ever work and honestly? I'm surprised this team got this far. The answer is simple, I doubt Scott is looking to "Recruit" promising fangames that deserve a spotlight in the community. But rather pre-existing big creations that could potentially mean a profit on all sides were they licensed by S.C. Now is this "scummy" or "greedy" in a sense? noooot necessarily, not at all. since after all this is a copyrighted license we are talking about whose creator has all the right to decide the fate of the derivative creations that originated from it. This is something that, sadly, not many fans may be concious about. By relying all your work, motivation, ambition and expectatives on the final decision of the big man himself, you're putting your otherwise passion project into a walk through ice, it's future DEPENDS on someone that frankly doesn't have that much interest in it given there are much bigger fish in the sea that are way easier to "grab". This team put their dedication and focus into an aspect that wasn't really the one Scott was paying attention to, sadly. Projects like this are the ones you shouldn't depend on anyone for, that kind of stuff is what pushes you back the most. You make an original, good quality game that YOU are happy with and then you present it to publishers and companies on YOUR OWN TERMS, otherwise you end up having your passion project be attached on people that may not even be interested on it's future to begin with, of course it will leave a sour taste on your mouth. I was contacted for FF for my stuff once, I declined for that very reason. I don't wanna depend on others to have my project reach it's potential, I don't plan on running things over to people that may just not have the same vision I have. In the end, no one's at fault. This is the result of two very different visions on a concept, I can tell the team has a lot of potential and hopefully someone will pick up that very potential someday. Scott isn't necessarily at fault here either, none of the decisions he made were really out of ill intent or anything like that, business be business. don't turn a passion project into business, great video man!
As someone who's done a lot of freelancing, the team of Aftonbuilt made a huge mistake. During concepting, it's important to make things as quickly and simply as possible. This game is "impressive", but that's a problem. If the client doesn't like the concept, then it doesn't matter how hard they worked on it or how impressive it is. The core isn't desirable to the client. Always finalize your concepts with your clients with very rough drafts before getting super invested in a project.
In the video even after their first demo they showed Scott he only arranged for a contract for a small amount of funding but they still hadn’t “proved” themselves, they couldn’t have been simpler
@@kori612 As OP mentioned the problem was that they hadn't showed off enough concept and did it at a slow rate..it was impressive what they made, yea, but it didn't quite sell the idea of the game (we only see one level, no ideas on what's next after it, it doesn't fully off the concept and doesn't fit what scott was wanting). They wasted time making a full functioning part of a game instead of something to show off concept..an entire level of a game isn't "simple".
@@testerwulf3357 the entire level was whst they madr after being askrd to prove themselves morr, wording is key, proving yourself and showing more are different
It *is* a fan game, just not in the fanverse meaning they aren't backed by Scott, they have to release it free, and they can't use a Kickstarter due to them using copyrighted material (Scott's characters) Edit: and as you can see, most members need to be compensated in order to continue coding/I think it's mostly their artists that are struggling.
I honestly think Scott's Insecurities (get it ?) was caused by FNAF SB. It was an ambitious project just like Aftonbuilt. That flopped really hard on Fandom Expectations. Both by pushing from fans and playstation to release it before it was done. I think Scott is just concerned that this project won't launch in a promising state due to it's ambitious storytelling and gameplay. All they needed was money and time. Both Steelwool and Gelatin. Sadly, one was not given The Proper Time and one was not given The Proper Money. It's kind of poetic in a twisted sort of way...
While my mind went to the exact same assumption, nobody I spoke to attributes _Aftonbuilt's_ rejection to _Security Breach._ The fact that Scott was allegedly still negotiating with the Jelatine team in good faith after SB had dropped makes it unlikely
I got emotional over this... I'm the concept artist and I created the mechanic and everything they are, we had so much going for this game and the only way I can describe the feeling of scott changing his mind after 2 years of our hard unpaid work is heartbreaking... I've cried multiple times over losing this game... I'd work on it for free if the team wanted to continue development, but it's not my place to choose... The support from the community has been increadible though... Love you all
The mechanic looked super cool! The animatic at the start looked really impressive. It's a shame because the team was clearly full of incredibly talented, professional people. You guys are awesome and you're gonna make Scott regret rejecting _Aftonbuilt,_ either together or individually.
I think the devs of aftonbuilt should try and salvage the assets from the game and make it into an original horror experience. Similar to how rare turned project dream into banjo kazooie in the 90s.
@@rohayaismail3708 It obviously is, why would Scott turn down such a big and ambitious game if the most recent game was a big ambitious game that got terrible reception?
I mean, I wasn't really blown away. The gameplay didn't look all that different from the dozen other free roam fan games over the years. Basically the only thing carrying the idea was the concept, and even then there are reasons not to include it in the lineup for that reason.
I think what you said about the fanverse being for games that HAVE to be within the story of FNaF is a very fitting description. I also think that Aftonbuilt is one of those games! The story is the only thing linking it to FNaF, it's one of the few games that you can't just throw random characters into and it still works. It incorporates the story so amazingly well, even giving a reason for Scraptrap and why he looks different. I really don't see why Scott said no, Afonbuilt is perfect for the fanverse, with the creators even changing the models so they could milk it for new merch like the new Foxy and the amazing Chica model you showed a few times. Really sad to hear about how Scott handled this. Not just because he declined them but just the way he treated the devs.
I pretty much expect the total opposite from Fanverse games. They shouldn't tie into FNaF lore at all, if possible. Out of five already approved games, neither of them dwelves into the lore. Candy's, Flumpty and TJoC are its own stories. POPGOES takes some minor FNaF characters, but brings them into a whole new context. As a remake, FNaF+ is meant to retell the past events, so again - make its own thing. As much as I want as high-quality game as Aftonbuilt in Fanverse, I don't like it from the story standpoint really. It is a non-canon fangame after all, and it shouldn't confuse people over the main lore. I don't like their take on the remnant from what I gather really. FNaF+ has it already tough enough with Phisnom constantly repeating that the game isn't canon. That's why I don't like the story here. It's an extension to FNaF3 rather than its own story.
Well I mean, could pretty easily alter the plot to something different. Example, you are trying to build a robot for some unspecified reason (make it a mystery to intrigue the audience), why these robots are hanging around, etc. Like there is enough there to make something of your own.
@@Ponguj I can understand your viewpoint, having games that are officially supported tell stories that aren't official could (and does) get confusing fast. However I still think that the Fanverse handling story games is better overall. If a game doesn't connect to FNaF at all apart from the genre, it's just that. A DIFFERENT game in the same GENRE. Being in the FNaf Fanverse should mean connecting to the game. Still I can see why you have basically the exact opposite of my opinion, especially seeing as what sort of games are actually present in the Fanverse right now.
*I get Scott's alleged concerns with big projects like after Security Breach,* but leaving a team high-and-dry for weeks on end, while still telling them to work on this demo project to join the fanverse. I mean, being a developer is _hard_ and with such a small team it's even harder, they spent months working on this project as if they were being pulled along on a string only to be giving a altered funding agreement and at the end denying them into the fanverse is just... shitty? Considering the fact they worked their asses off for peanuts and buttons. Scott just wanted them to continue working on this game with bad funding on the hopes they'll be accepted in. If _pure_ 100% originality was such a key factor in Scott's hesitation, then why would he accept other big projects such as TJoC, FNaC & Flumpty's? No shade towards them or their respective devs, but...
Scott was dealing with a lot of stuff at the time, Absolutely ridiculous backlash and harassment due to political nonsense so it's reasonable in my mind as to why he should take time off as he had a lot on his plate, And for all we know he COULD have had plans to bring Aftonbuilt into the fanverse if they improved and worked on their concept but it just fell through due to any circumstances that arose.
TJoC, Flumpty’s, and FNaC were already well-established games at that point. They were popular, well-known, but most importantly well-received fan-games, so it only made sense to greenlight them. I think that AftonBuilt only being in demo form at the time, and with the Security Breach backlash, it led to him being hesitant. I still think he handled the situation in the worst way imaginable, He should not be the one handling this all alone, and that’s where I find Scott’s biggest problem. This franchise is too big for him to decide on alone, and his persistence on him being the be all end all leads to situations like this. I hope the best for the developers and I hope they can get the best possible outcome, whatever that may be.
Scott is worth millions, it’s a miracle he even communicated with them at all. People always blame the rich guy, but don’t acknowledge that they are human and have a life.
@@tylerd.1 I think it's less that he's a millionaire but more along the lines of that he has a family, A wife and kids and had them even before his rise to being famous. He's made his millions and can live comfortably and pay the bills and feed himself and his kids and wife, And send his kids through college and whatnot, Basically what every parent wants, Honestly I'm really happy for him and I wish him the best.
Ambition is what this series needs. Aftonbuilt is a bit...out there. But similarly to TJOC, an out there concept can work in the spirit of FNAF, even if it's a bit more realistic looking. This series is drowning in samey games and lack of new ideas. I highly respect this project
@@patientboat1979 there's a difference between ambition and delusion, the Security Breach team was delusional in their goals for the game, whilst with AftonBuilt we have a demo that actually delivers and shows the goals for the project. Im feeling like Scott is just not in the best position to be the ultimate voice in regards of the Fanverse, sad to see this kind of projects go ignored
@@patientboat1979 In my opinion, ambition is what the game needed. From the previous trailers fans expected an open-world, horrifying experience with Vanny as the main villain, but in-game she's barely seen, the overworld is glitchy and barren, and I believe the game had censorship issues with not allowing words such as "killed" despite the premise originally being so dark (if I'm wrong please correct me)
1: Scott can't sue you over "haunted animatronics" that theme was overdone less than a decade after Chucky cheese or whom ever created those creepy animatronics. 2: Scott can't sue you over gameplay as the gameplay isn't legally distinct from Night Trap on the Sega Saturn, so they'd have no legal ground to stand on. 3: The Fnaf "fanverse" should and can only legally contain works directly linked to the FNAF name or through signing a contract with Scott and Co. Any work with "haunted animatronics" and/or Night Trap derivative gameplay can be sold on its own, Scott only holds the monopoly we let him. Even a game called "12 nights of Christmas" where you try and avoid haunted Christmas themed animatronics can still be sold independent of the "fanverse". (for those few mentally deficients out there, this is not legal advice. Consult a lawyer or other learned in law before taking legal action. Obviously.)
That's a good summary of the MatPat segment. If you're not a lawyer though you should probably say. It's unlikely but someone could make an argument that they took some action based on you proclaiming these things as fact and then got in trouble.
@@theftking Fair, though one has to be a fool to take legal advice from a UA-cam comment. One should always do their diligence to research and ask professionals for advice.
@@muffinchubby2352 True, a story told in many vague suggestions is hard to white off of, as the only one that has or knows the complete story or lore is the one telling it. Thus a truly canon fan work is virtually impossible as there's nothing concrete to write around.
4: scott can sue them over the code and assets even if they change assets the contract doesn't allow them to use they're code from Unreal Engine 4 at all and even if they tried to remake it there is a chance that the code might look "too simmilar"
Honestly, I understand both sides of this conflict. I feel that both perspectives are valid in this case. On the bright side, not being under scott's legacy gives the creator an opportunity to have more creative freedom with their own vision, as well as independence without a need to wait for feedback on each step before proceeding. As an optimist, while the situation is definitely dissappointing and frustrating for many, taking a look on the brighter side of things helps to realize that it's not the end of everything, and it isn't the worst thing that could have happened, like a complete shut-down of the fan project via copyright or something like that. They can move at their own desired pace of development. Though, I must admit I have different feelings on the fact that crowd funding was off the table, imagining that that refers to charity and fan donations. I wonder if they could get away with holding a donation/charity funding event for the team in general, so they could still earn money without it being explicitly labeled for this project?
The thing about your first point is that feedback between the fanverse devs and Scott isnt happening. Theyre all on their own. But I agree with your point. Perhaps, this event can help them raise their own support.
I don't think it's a good idea to do that last point. There is this sonic fan game called sonic omens that has a similar funding tactic and it's under A LOT of mixed controversy. It's possible to make money that way but it's a legal gray area that might not be the best way to go about things.
Hearing about how long it took for Scott to reply to emails, especially when people are actively trying to show their work to him, is worrying. I wonder if any of the other Fanverse game devs had to deal with this. I would be distraught if another ambitious game like this is tossed into the trash. Aftonbuilt shows a lot of promise, so I feel as if he should give them the funding, especially since this looks way more promising in the aftermath of Security Breach.
Pretty sure some of the fanverse devs already mentioned that communication between them and Scott is awful this really just explains how it's awful (And can also presumably be similar to what the other devs are dealing with)
I don't have too much understanding of the fanverse, but as a freelance artist the fact they were working for months with the promise of a funding deal dangled in front of them and then being ripped away at the last minute I feel is really worrying. Obviously they got paid something in the end but the communication could've been much improved. I really feel for them, that a lot of man hours.
While I was watching some of the footage from the game, I had the feeling that the game doesn't really feel like fnaf but something different. I honestly feel like people could make Aftonbuild really work as a unique game and not a fnaf fangame. The concept of the game is completely different from what I've seen any fnaf game do (and possibly even any fnaf fangame but I'm not 100% sure) and is definitly quite unique. While yes the name would need to be changed and there would be a bit of a change in characters and storyline, the idea of this game is perfect to not connect it to fnaf which makes it great for making it into a completely different game
I think that is a good suggestion, but I feel like because something is different doesn't mean it isn't good or acceptable. Me and a friend had a fangame concept that steered away from the entire horror concept of FNaF and focused more on a narrative and investigation system (as well as 3D action segments because I can never control myself when it comes to having some type of action in a game). I could explain it if you'd like but I won't do it by default as it's a long explanation. Oh I should reclarify, a fangame doesn't need to be horror when it comes to relating to something else. I want to clarify that as so it doesn't seem that I'm misinterpreting what you're saying. I get it, it does stray away but it has aspects that could still fit in a sense.
I suddenly remember what Markiplier said about this game. He said that the creators of this project can create their own game because of how good and solid Aftonbuilt is. The concept intrigued him and he enjoyed it. He would love to see other games of the creators that have their own style, story, and ideas because he believes that they can do it.
It kinda feels like a dick move by scott to leave them in the dark for several months to just change the funding agreement and at the end denying them into the fan-verse, they overworked themselves and boom Daniel access
@@murilodeavevedo5862 tbh he just always puts artists and writers on shit time limits. He made one of the official artist do an entire graphic novel in less than a year. The Fazbear frights authors have to write the books within months. Also he won’t fire the artist who made a fanfic about William sexually harassing kids and also makes extremely sexual art of his characters. So yeah. That’s why.
I really can't defend Scott's actions here. What he did to the team was scummy, leading them on for so long just to reject their ideas and make it so they can't even profit off of their hard work.
@@edwinve4112 here’s the thing with that. Scott specifically told them to work, and at that point, had practically hired them to create a concept to see if it would be a good idea. Paying them for the work, even if the concept was refused, is just being a good boss.
@@chrishandsome7012 you can’t claim you want to do cool stuff with your franchise, then shoot down anything you don’t specifically like with your franchise, then run off when the franchise fails or communication gets hard. It’s like running a business, you can sit there do shit work, but it fails or no one likes you eventually. It’s not illegal, it’s reality. The reality is, Scott is failing miserably tbh.
@@chrishandsome7012 He still pops up in Dawko's streams and afaik the majority of people are on his side. I dont think anything would happen if he just dropped in on Freddit and communicated with his fanbase again instead of being emo for a year over a cancellation attempt that honestly would have probably faded into obscurity in a day if people werent throwing fuel at it.
Who else thinks the development process of security breach messed up Scotts perception on fan games? Wasn't there a time when Scott liked and was rather forward into giving fan games the credit and the respect they deserve no matter how little or how ambitious they were?
yes there was. its honestly depressing to see how much security breach messed up his perception of fan creations. even so it doesnt really explain why it took him 2 whole years for a contract that says "hey here's a drop of money. now make a more finished concept for the 30th time and then *maybe* ill let you into fanverse." i guess security breach was apart of that decision but two entire years? really?
@@ranpo_edogawa I'll give you that His way of funding the game and then ghosting the developers to only then suddenly pop out of nowhere and then orce them to cancel is a very dick move from Scott
@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439 still seem very douche-y to ignore their messages and change his mind on a whim on what he's been funding without giving it a chance
@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439 it clearly wasn't alot of people were interested in this and it was high quality Obviously that doesn't guarantee success but hell it had a good shot and Scott kinda ruined it
I do wish this had gone differently; I'd really love to see varying sorts of games get into the fanverse to cover a bunch of different things people want out of FNAF. However, it's extremely difficult not to feel at least a little disheartened to hear 'why did X get in but not this game!!!'. There's plenty of passion being put into the existing fanverse properties. I desperately wish more people understood that this outcome is not the fault of Kane, or Emil, or anyone else working on smaller projects in this program. Folks are allowed their opinions but it feels like a lot of lashing out is being done at people who do not deserve it because a more ambitious project fell through. I genuinely wish Liam the best in whatever he decides to do after this despite it all.
This has got me thinking... What is the Fazbear Fanverse about exactly? We know it's basically about FNAF Fan Games in a folder that will be associated as rewardingly outstanding, so we'd need distinguishable original characters and a distinguishable game, but if a game with great potential like AftonBuilt was rejected, then what's required to successfully enter, you know what I mean?
The fact that it took Scott a year just to sign a NDA is absurd, I really hate how impartial people are pretending to be by implying it's acceptable for Scott to make someone wait more then a year before even considering accepting an NDA which is just a non disclosure agreement. Nevermind that he was asking for demos and having expectations for them to begin with, just remember he asked for a new game to be shown, they delivered. He asked for a demo, they delivered. But he was totally unwilling, every step of the way to commit to the project despite expecting a game of this caliber to continue to be in development. That doesn't even include the inherent power dynamic of Scott being a big time game developer shining his attention onto their work.
@@raymondtomas2294 Yes, but most people in the industry. (Popular or otherwise) Are professional enough to try and reply in a timely matter or, if they can't not try to do extra projects. Especially if those extra projects involve giving a team money for a prospect game. Expecting basic professionalism is not to much to ask, a year for an NDA is way to long.
Damn thank you. I’d love to see everyone work their ass off for literally years with little to no pay except for a MAYBE and have to rely on hopes and an occasional email.
Bruh I agree so much I don’t understand these comments a lot of bootlickers of Scott.. man I love fan but ever since his controversy it really made me see true stuff about Scott like the poor ppl making this project working their ass off minimum wage only for Scott to say “ meh it wasn’t meant to be “ like do ppl in this discourse not see that ?? Oh “ he has kids n a wife a family! “ yeah and the developers of this game don’t ? Neither do the ppl in the fan verse huh
i hope in any way this game gets continued it has an idea that i find awsome clearly has great enemy potiential and seems like the perfect fnaf fangame
Honestly I feel bad for the guys. I know realistically you cant put all fnaf like games for the fanverse but It feels really scummy that these well known fangames got in but this one with a unique idea got kicked out.
@@shadowbunny7892 seems like scott would accept anything thats the same fnaf gameplay recycled with eye catching animatronics from what he seems to be saying lmao
Well, keep in mind another similar project that came out. A freeroaming, ambitious, and now infamous FNAF title that absolutely bombed. Security Breach's terrible failing might have had something to do with Scott's hesitancy to fund another similarly ambitious title.
@@shadowbunny7892 FN ended at 4 long before the initiative was a thing so no, plus Liam literally said he could do remakes of all FN's, too bad Scott himself said to him "i want something original" which Liam did, Aftonbuilt is more original than half of the games in the initiative lol
I remember my parents say "being passionate about something is great, but sadly, when you go out and start doing work, being passionate can also make you even more stressful and that's why people only do what they're told, and ONLY that. Don't over-do something, just do what you're told and that's enough" And I asked them, "why?" And they said, "Because, money. and also, if you're so passionate about something, you'll be in a situation where you end up disappointed more frequently"
I was thinking about how similar you and Pastra were. Small UA-camrs who have had a very sudden jumpstart in subscriber counts, primarily focusing on FNAF/horror game content. And then you mentioned him at the end. Felt pretty cool. Good video, by the by, it was informative and well made.
They could just retexture Foxy into a wolf, remove or replace all references to FNaF and change the title to something like "Afterbuilt", similar to the current, yet not using the original title, and then they'd probably be free to launch a crowdfunding campaign as there's little to no relation to FNaF, just, like, let's say a murderer, Bill After, was murdered in some animatronic factory and stuffed into some rabbit suit, then burnt and now he wants the player to rebuild them to get revenge on their murderer; it would be more of an original idea (as he didn't kill any children, he was a murderer, but didn't do it, instead he was killed, unlike in FNaF where he basically killed himself) and kinda a plot mess, but well, they'd be free to do whatever they wanted, with no need to negotiate anything with someone who unfortunately can't make their mind and support people who should've been supported
You can't just do that, most assets in the game are based on FNaF, you can't deny about Scooper being in the game and animatronics parts . if that's the case they have to remodel all models
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad If the only map related item is the scooper then the scooper can be changed to something else. Scott doesn’t own the concept of a mechanical shovel nor does he own the concept of animatronics needing maintenance.
Hope this team continues to make other games; scotts behavior here is appalling and the team deserves to make a game with a propper company behind them.
Another Angle to look at, especially with what other comments have pointed out. It's probably just too much of a risk to have something this big in the fanverse given how some of the other devs have been. jonochromes Controversy, Phisnom openly bashing and leaving the fandom and Nikson being basically unable to really work on his game. I totally understand why Scott changed his mind and finds this game too risky. All that work and Funding could be undone if even one of the devs decides to leave, cause drama or be unable to work on the game. The lack of communication should definitely be held accountable for however, That's not cool.
I know about most of those dev's situations, but if you don't mind me asking. Wth is going on with Nikson(TJOC guy)? Why is he unable to work? Is he sick or something?
@@sleepylmguy9968 He works for a company whose i can't remember the name and is busy with work. However he said he has big plans for TJOC after he can get back at it with Unreal Engine 5
But it was pretty obvious that they were currently working on the game and they were very very dedicated to it so I don't understand where this point is going.
The game seems really interesting as a game. But it doesn't seem like a FNAF game. It seems more like another game using FNAF as an inspiration. Managing resources in a spooky theme is pretty much all fnaf is. This has those, but in a much different way. It's an action based game, deviating greatly from what the LCD wants from FNAF. Honestly, they should keep the game idea, and remove the FNAF elements, and make it as something else. Animatronics are still fine, but just not FNAF. The best way I can sum it up is the transition of Paper Mario TTYD to Super Paper Mario. Sure, all the things are there, but there's such a MASSIVE difference gameplay wise. BOTH good games, but one shouldn't be a continuation of another, and both could stand as their own respective titles.
Think you're basically spot on. FNAF+ is literally FNAF. Candy's is FNAF with different characters. Everyone remembers TJOC for the free roaming but by Story Mode it was pretty much just FNAF again but the Sister Location kind where it's a different resource management game every "night." Not to belittle any of those, FNAC3 and TJOC:SM are great games on their own merits, but they all follow the formula. This seems like too much of a departure for Scott to want to put to official brand on it. Hopefully they do their own thing with it eventually.
Yeah, I don't think anyone is at fault, just people with different agendas. I think the Aftenbuilt devs had a grand idea and went all-in way too soon, thinking that presentation and indie studio level talent would guarantee their way in. I'm not saying that smaller fangames never had a team but for as large as this project was, they should have never pitched this game as a derivative work. We gotta remember that FNAF wasn't known for its revolutionary gameplay, but rather the concept and characters the game presented. If I was Scott and had to manage and produce the funding for multiple projects and make sure I could do so profitably, I could see why he'd be skeptical of a game several times more expensive without the proven marketability. I don't fault the devs at all for putting their best into their game, but I don't think they put a lot of business sense into the planning on their end. They were fans who outgrew themselves and weren't the right fit for what Scott wanted. On Scott's side, I think he stretched himself thin and didn't make his intentions fully clear when making the Fanverse Initiative and is learning as he goes. He was known as that humble little game dev in the same position as us, but he's now a multi-millionaire businessman who has to act like one if he wants to keep it that way. Fans may have a certain perception of him that will leave us disappointed in reality. Like Scott himself, keep your best interests in mind.
@@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051 I don't agree with that. Aftonbuilt looks simultaneously generic, and also different from the FNAF formula to the point where I wouldn't really have confidence in it. Seeing it, to me it looks like some other free roam FNAF fangame with contrived mechanics that is also different enough from FNAF proper that it can't get by on the IP alone.
despite my massive respect for Scott, this failure is entirely on him, this genuinely I feel was a mistake on his part. I understand he was dealing with and going through a lot at the time, but waiting for weeks at a time for a response from him and to be rejected despite putting 2 years into this game is just sad. Yes, I understand that hard work will not and does not equal guaranteed success or approval, but I feel like Scott was just being a dick during this situation.
@@ShatteredGlassUnicron I mean the Thing is we don't know Scott's Side of the Story. I'm sure he had his Reasons as well, but without knowing them it's rather hard to see him in a Good Light in all of this.
@@ShatteredGlassUnicron especially with the special thanks in the description with the added “make Scott regret his decision;D” it is completely one sided and is written with an insane amount of bias.
Not to be an asshole, but as someone with a bit of experience with the industry, and quite a few friends with a lot of experience, this was honestly better than how most publishers go about things. I'm sorry, but publishers aren't going to throw much money at you with a rough prototype and sketches, even if you're a well known studio. Networking is the only way to bypass that sort of thing. You could always make something yourself. If you're dealing with someone else's ip and money, you have to bend over. The only reason they had this opportunity was because they were previously established and able to have that opportunity. Here's the best thing to do: Make your prototype ip-less, nothing technically connected to whatever ip you wanted to use. If you do end up wanting to get published and use whatever ip, showing them the prototype and then explaining how it can be used for that ip is the best option. You still have that ip-less prototype that can be built upon if you are truly passionate about the project so far.
@@Pihsrosnec This is the one thing that doesn't really apply to. If you write a book based on another IP, and then are angry that the IP holder doesn't agree with your vision, you don't get to publish it. Make your own thing first, you'll be surprised how many games in known series start out like that.
@@DioBrando-mr5xs that's not the part I'm referring to, I'm more referring to the having a team work on a demo for over a year without pay in the hopes of getting a contract
@@Pihsrosnec you simply shouldn't throw everything you have to one casket though, that's a very big problem and it seems like dev team didn't think that.
honestly, i really like how you present your info in your videos. it feels like you've done this before, and actually have an idea of what you are doing. from my experience watching your videos it feels like i'm actually watching a reporter/journalist and it's really well done. you are doing amazing and i can't wait to see more content from you. (just want to make sure you see this sorry for posting it twice)
I understand why Scott refused the game, it's a big project and very different concept from what we"re used to, the game was a risk Scott wasn't willing to take.
my man why did he not reject security breach or help wanted? nah man its because he didn't think that like 10 developers could polish a game of that size, especially after seeing how many mechanics they've added.
@@nomus1172 security breach is a pretty good game it's just over ambitious I feel that if the fans weren't so rude on Twitter it might have actually been good
not the people hitting for scott in the notes "he has a life you can't expect him to be able to communicate and follow through," if he didn't have the time to actually treat the developers he offered to hire humanely then he shouldn't have started the project.
To Scott's credit, it _does_ look like he recognized the communication issues and got Clickteam's management involved, which everyone said was way better. I don't get the impression that Scott was doing anything _malicious_ here; it seems like one of those situations where the planets just never quite aligned.
Pretty unfortunate news for FNAF nowadays. I don't think Scott's indie business model has scaled well. If I were him I would make "FNAF LLC" and appoint managers for every aspect of the franchise so I could focus on writing lore and reaching out to fans properly like the good old days. I would love to see a video on on "The Return to Freddy's" fangame saga and the crazy drama surrounding it. Perhaps even snag an interview with the creator?
ooh yea i would absolutely love a trtf video. i was actually a fan of those games awhile back and i would love to see this guy covering it. i'll be even more happy if he somehow manages to get an interview with tyler
It's so weird that Scott complained about the lack of originality, when his Fanverse is literally for fan games that are directly based on FNAF. Not only that, but TJOC, which is already a part of it, mainly focuses on Scott's characters, and FNAF Plus, also part of it, is supposed to be a remake of the first game.
@@ThomasTaylor258 ? I know they are supposed to be spirits impersonating Scott's characters to torment him and his family and feed off his creativity, but their designs are literally based on the original FNAF characters. TJOC was just unique in its gameplay, not the character designs. How can Scott complain about the lack of originality when Aftonbuilt also had a unique approach to gameplay instead of designs?
5:20 this is EXACTLY what I wanted to hear, I would prefer it if Scott would be a shadow writer to the fnaf series but like steel wool handle all the heavy lifting so he's not the main face anymore
I believe one of the possible problems was the fact most fanverse games are very easy to convert to mobile and console it is probably a thing at Scott doesn’t want anything too ambitious or big for the fanverse he just wanted some games he could mass port with the possibility of porting the pre existing games of that fan series to other platforms and there are of course other things at most likely caused Scott to change his mind so often on a fanverse project like aftonbuilt such as security breach being a over ambitious buggy mess and the fact at Scott has most of the fnaf fanverse games being point and clicks from the early days of fnaf I believe he isn’t comfortable with having very very high ambition free roam 3d games think of it like this Scott has had all his 3d projects handled by steelwool so do you think he himself would want to go with a very ambitious and possibly high price to make type of fangame while the other games are only like 3.99
Here's my thoughts on the whole situation: Liam should have never made Aftonbuild for anyone but himself. Making his whole passion project rely on the hands of Scott instead of just doing it for the love of making the game can end in a whole lot of effort and time going to waste cause, at the end of the day, it all depends on whether Scott is in on it or not. Liam thought that this was the equivalent of pitching a movie to a big studio when, really, its more like a collab between well known game developers to do something bigger (Not saying Liam's work is not well known, just that he didnt really know what the nature of the Fanverse is). I think this comes as well due due to Liam's recent circumstances ( being kicked out of his home and needing money) that he and his team put so much crunch on just this demo, as it seems he was hoping to make a living out of the fanverse. I can only guess why Scott rejected Aftonbuild after two years but I dont really blame him for all of this. Yeah, he should have answered Liam's emails sooner, of course, but, looking at all the stuff Scott has on his hands, it makes more sense why he didn't answer: He has a family with a wife and ( I believe) six children, He and his whole family were doxxed during the drama last year forcing him to leave the internet, he has to deal with the failure of Security Breach (an ambicious free-roeaming fnaf game like AftonBuild remind you) , He's pumpimg money into the fanverse which has given him 0 profits and even more drama, he's still writing books and he is the sole owner of all the creative rights to FNAF and I dont think he's giving them away anytime soon after SB. With all of this on his plate, no wonder he takes forever to communicate with other Devs, he's basically a one-man company. And as for the Fanverse itself, I think a lot of people have this idea that the Fanverse is like this "Shark Tank" for game devs to kickstart their carrers. I don't think thats the case. The Fanverse was, and still is, Scott's way of saying "thank you" to the community, it was never meant to be anything more than that. He took some well known fan game developers, gave them the rights to make money out of their work, and money to make their games come true,that is it. There where some vague hopes that the Fanverse would have a second round, but due to the way the fanverse was conceived as, I wouldn't be suprised if it shuts down after the last fanverse member puts out his game. The fanverse is just a collab between a group of well known devs and Scott to make their games and some merch, it wasn´t meant to be some kind of steam greenlight for fnaf fan games. I get that the idea of the fanverse is cool and most of us would love to see our favorite nonverse fangame in the intitative, but that is just wishing for the intiative to be something it isn't. Overall, this whole mess is just one big tragedy in the end. A team of devs, driven by the hope that they can make a living out of their fangame and not out of just wanting to make their own path, make a pretty cool game but are ultimately rejected by Scott who has too much shit to deal with to give money to an ambicious project and because of the nature of the fanverse. Leading to a whole lot of effort and time wasted. I don't blame any party in this, this was just a disaster cause by various circumstances. The lesson that I take from this whole thing is that, if you really want to make something big and pasionate, do it for you and not for the sake of others. Thats how most popular fangames started, and where they are now.
this is so well written and summed up practically everything I'd been thinking over since watching this video and reading the comments others left. this all just felt like a train wreck waiting to happen. it's impossible to pick a side, because both sides had 100% valid excuses for what happened. it's difficult to pick out a true "bad guy" in this scenario.
This situation would totally go on the "creators doing collaborations with the fans gone wrong" section, which is why I have some issues with the probably too optimistic "hire the fans" phrase
@@ravenfrancis1476 Dunno, most articles and even Scott's wiki page say he was doxxed. There were also screenshots of his addres going around during the drama but dunno if that is doxxing or not.
@@fredrick8958 doxxing is when you take previously unknown information about a person and release it on the internet. In a “traditional” sense in order for it to be a “true” doxxing, the information has to be well hidden. I would still count releasing even public information if most people never knew about it though, but that’s mostly a personal opinion.
Honestly if Aftonbuilt was reworked and rewritten to be a semi-original story this could possibly come back to life. I've already got a few concepts of a story I just wish this game could still happen, but the contracts seem like it wouldn't be possible.
Scott's in his rights to reject a fangame he personally doesn't vibe with, I get that. What I can't agree with at all is that this project was made by people in the very same position Scott once was: making something they wanted to, despite the financial issues involved, and yet Scott didn't help them recover. The premise of him extending an olive branch towards fellow inspiring indie devs is a good one, I just can't get over what I can only see from this event as either a case of horrible hypocrisy or ignorance. Scott, I love you man, but come on. Here's hoping the devs can lean further into the unique aspects of this game and make their much-deserved financial returns from their work. Honestly if they needed some help with monster design I'd be stoked to work with them.
@@siduxjxhdgzhdjxhxuuxxyhgg1079 ???huh??? Look, it sucks that their game got rejected while they worked on it but there is more going on than a lot of people realize. Outside of lore and gameplay, there are bugs, tutorial, controls, porting etc. When it comes to the fanverse games. There is a huge difference between a game made with Clickteam and Unreal Engine (or similar game engines) Most of the Clickteam (or hell, even games made with Blender) not gonna end up on a big scale like this. Not to mention, they are throwing slanders around to Scott with no actual proof from their sides.
@@siduxjxhdgzhdjxhxuuxxyhgg1079 what excuse? Fact that not every fan game can take part in Fanverse of something else? I give here something with a source but all you are saying is "SoUnDs LiKe YoU'rE tRyInG tO fInD eXcUsE tHe SiTuAtIoN" Wow dude, you destroyed my argument just like that, good job.
Imma be real, if they just reskin the game they totally would have a successful game from what it seems, they should try to give it a go, I know I'd be interested especially with the unique gameplay it seems to offer.
You guys NEED to look at the bigger picture. On one side, Scott is an incredibly busy man with a shit ton of things to manage (like the film, talking to game developers (steelwool for example), book writers and publishers, merchandising companies, artists, and much more), who also has a relatively big family, so, as much as it sucks, it's completely NORMAL for him to answer after weeks. Another thing is that the refusal of Aftonbuilt doesn't mean he's doing the fanverse initiative only for merchandising purposes and money. Thinking a game as ambitious (which isn't always a bad thing, I believe this game would have made it) as this one was too big of a risk for both parties doesn't mean he only cared for the money. We have seen him give it away multiple times in various streams for charity. On the other side, I believe hooking the game devs up with a team dedicated to replying and coordinating fanverse entries from the get go would have helped greatly. Aftonbuilt is an incredible game from the gameplay I've seen and I can tell how much passion was put into it, and I hate the thought of this being the end. I hope there can be something done to get the project going again, and I sincerely hope this won't be the last we see of it. Hopefully everyone's doing okay.
My husband has every school in the county as his clientele, he answers emails within one business day. My father is a district attorney, he answers emails and calls within one business week on a scale of importance. I get at least 40 messages split between phone and email, and find the time to respond, even when I was homeless. You find time when it is your job. You don't go into a professional environment with this kind of attitude and not get reprimanded for it.
@@asummersquash any fan made project that is making the creator money without the IP owner’s consent is illegal and can be shut down. What the creators can do is scrub the game of any affiliation with fnaf and change the models that look a bit to simaler to fnaf characters. Change the story a tad bit like instead of afton its a spirit who wants to help the others move on or just anything thats not fnaf
Thing is a lot of people forget that scott is only one man, and this franchise is his baby. He's mentioned before how he made FNAF just to get something to put out to try and make a little money. Now it's a household name. So he's very protective of it. As seen when he shot down just about every single FNAF movie concept because they weren't what he envisioned. Which I think goes to show it's not all down to greed like people like to claim. If it was, he'd have any shitty movie pushed out the door, because kids will see anything. The issue with that though, is that he's just one man, who, with the fanverse idea, put the pressure of moderating THOUSANDS of people on his own shoulders, because he can't trust a publisher to not mess up the franchise too bad. So yeah, no shit it's gonna take him weeks to respond, he has to get back to the other hundreds of WIP fangames and playtest them and make the big decision on if this is something that's good enough to stand alongside a blockbuster series. And it'll sound rough, but it's a bad idea to rely so hard on other people, especially ones you don't really know, like the aftonbuilt devs did with scott. ESPECIALLY for something as important as running yourself into what essentially amounts to effort debt because you're expecting to get paid. For all you know scott is going to just reject your game outright, and all that effort will have been for naught. If he's not being very communicative, don't rely on him. Split from the fanverse idea, make original characters, and try crowdfunding or something. Because turning up to a guy with 500 forms on his desk and putting yours there thinking "Oh boy I sure hope he pays attention to mine, I've worked myself to the bone!" is a quick way to get disappointed.
Elden ring was ambitious and I still got it done. Are you also going to say STALKER 2 is over ambitious because it has a small developer team. Dude that's how Counter-Strike was made and team fortress. You'd be amazed by what a couple dudes in a basement could make. Show some love to STALKER 2 devs because well you know. If you don't I would recommend looking up STALKER 2 and where their game company is located.
@@the_fenix_3247 I'm going to correct you security breach was not affected by ambition it was affected by time crunches and rushing things just like battlefield 2042 and fallout 76. Eventually fallout 76 became a decent game but that's because it took time. I don't think this game has that.
@@chickencheese6682 In the interview they said how they kept spending the game and as we see exploring the game files we know they cut some stuff out, so while yes the stuff you say is most likely true I believe that over ambition is also a factor on how security breach ended up as it is now. But my comment was not what you or I believed what happened to security breach, it was on an assumption that if Scott saw Security breach problems in it's over ambition then I could guess that it can be a reason why he wouldn't accept this fan game.
8:31 They most likely signed it since it was permission to use FNAF characters in a game, even if it is non-profit. Pretty much preventing their project from being taken down for copyright as long as they followed the terms. It doesn't really imply any money was provided. It could've been, but there's no indication of it just because they signed one contract saying they could keep working on it.
This really saddens me, I was so excited with Aftonbuilt. I loved playing it so much. It sucks that they struggled with 2 years with getting them into the fanverse.
I am friends with one of the developers in Jelatine who was working on this project. It's been pretty saddening seeing the depressive state they've fallen into since the cancelation, and I've been trying to help however I can. (He also linked me this video.)
I hope they keep the concept and make their own game, when I saw that the parts for confronting and breaking animatronics where mostly just cutscenes in sb I was dissapointed. they have a really good concept going, as for how? idk, maybe protag's friend brought em a broken robot, they discussed where to find parts and they decided to loot abandoned animatronic burger joint Milly's (the fox, crow whatever animal) playbarn(or whatever place ya want) they really do have too good a concept to let fall to the aether.
I really hope they can recover from this, literally no one is thinking about their state rn imagine if they'll ever be willing to make another game after this real life nightmare??
@@noodleman4555 so we will be end up losing 3 of the best devs the fnaf community ever had, Nickson, Phis and now Liam too...hope the haters are of proud of themselves...
@@rougestarlight4308 the main reason was bc it would make security breach worse and tbh a lot of players would think that "this is the security breach we deserved"
@Lifty this isn't the full ass game lmfao, this is mostly the demo that was shown to scott and that's why it's buggy as fuck and not complete at all, most of things were subject to change
As someone who’s been through it before, it really does suck when you think your idol can help you out only to be shot down, but at least it wasn’t as brutally as “my idol personally hates my guts and would probably beat me up if they saw me”. Still sucks to hear it happen, especially with a promising game like this. I’ve seen people hate it for looking like half life or having mechanics that make no sense but aside from being realistic when dealing with animatronics (they don’t immediately game end you but can hurt you) it has the amazing idea of using all sorts of gizmos and gadgets to sort out the animatronic, which I don’t think any game has ever done before and I love it. It’s like each level is a giant puzzle that has many ways to solve it
It's hard to tell what Scott what was thinking at the time, we can assume he was evil or had alterior motives, but I think the biggest thing that we should take is that it was an attempt, but an unsuccessful one. Unfortunate for the developers, I truly think it would've become an amazing game under the Fanverse, but I also think we shouldn't attack or belittle Scott over this. I wish the best for the future of the developers
Unless Scott decides to pursue legal action, no NDA has been broken. Nobody knows how Liam's NDA looked like, so nobody can prove he broke one. And Since Scott didn't do anything still, it's safe to assume Liam didn't do anything.
here's what i think: scott's just one guy. i know he probably wants to make sure no one does something weird with the franchise behind his back, because this series is his baby, it's what allows him to pay rent and feed his family, it changed his life. ...but he really needs more people that have close to the amount of power that he has, or even people with equal amounts of power so that a group, with scott included, could reach more and more people, and they could all talk to decide what they should do next, kind of like a council scott juggling all of this by himself is great but at the same time it's hard for him to do so much at the same time
This game is ambitious, but bit a wrong way - unlike other fan-verse games, Aftonbuilt squeezes itself directly in FNAF timeline and continuity and bases itself so heavily around one of the main FNAF characters and villains. Let’s be honest, if it would’ve released and especially with Scott’s approval, how many fans would’ve count it canon-complaint franchise entry? I feel that Scott would’ve greenlighted this game just fine if it was not about Afton, in FNAF timeline continuity. Sure, I feel bad for devs because Scott’s approach is kinda clumsy, but I see why Scott asked them to be more original and it’s not connected to merch - you just can’t go and create what can be canonical franchise entry with franchise creator approval but based only on your characters and canon’s vision. And Scott has his right not to share info about lore and character development aspects critical to HIS story to some fan-devs.
@@spookson5679 Popgoes and Candy’s related to FNAF by shared universe and timeline, indeed, but they have their own set of main characters and their own plots going own. None of them are using Afton as basically their protagonist.
@@Corvus7 Sorry dude, but I don’t really see Afton as the reason for the rejection. And canonicity isn’t a good reason either. FNAF plus is a remake of FNAF 1, that would certainly confuse more people than a side story like this game. The books are also another thing, they are official but only semi-canon (from what I remember), and that’s way more confusing than this. So canonicity doesn’t really sound like a good reason to me. For Afton, he is just 1 part of FNAF. An important part, but still just 1 part. He isn’t the face of the franchise like Freddy, so why exclude him? We don’t even know what truly he looks outside of his appearances as a corpse or in 8 bit. But that’s just my opinion.
@@disgrunty6057 Plus is not gonna add anything into FNAF continuity. It’s the same game lore-wise. As far as we know it’s just basically “FNAF 1 next gen” and many people still thinks it is made by Scott and is not a fan-game. Aftonbuild though uses FNAF characters and timeline to create new story that seems to be canon complaint to original FNAF entries, which makes this much more confusing and lore-restrictive. I’m sure studio would’ve have less troubles if they used all this stuff for some original animatronic franchise, that is vaguely connected with FNAF, as FNAC did.
I saw Markiplier play the game, and it's amazing I love the idea of it and would have love to see more. Although, I agree that Scott has a big plate and it's hard to run that big of a franchise, so everyone has their own opinion. But the game "Afton Built" really could have made it in, i personally love it. I do feel extremely sorry for all the problems the developers had to go through while making this game.
I think the best description of Scott at this point is that he can be your friend. But he's also a business man at his core. As a major Scott Cawthon supporter the news is really dissapointing. Like its ovbious Communication was the main issue. But he did just mess about with the Aftonbuilt devs at the end of the day.
Of course _Aftonbuilt_ wasn't going to be Scott's priority. Scott is just a dude running a huge media franchise. For a long time there has been this small-but-visible cult of personality around Scott, where people act like he can do no wrong. He's only human. There are cool things about him and he has flaws.
I see and understand the problems that the devs had, but the demo doesnt really have to be that detailed, the concept has to be strong, but you are digging your own grave by improving more on the mechanics and the quality of the textures, never overdue your draft, because thats what a draft is
It seems mostly like a series of unfortunate events is what put this endeavor in the ground. Ramping anxieties, from being cancelled, to Security Breach, and so Scott's willingness to take risks just took a nosedive, not to mention how badly it interrupted the communications. Had things been a bit better, I'm sure the communication would have been quite a bit better and any concerns would have been squashed earlier, and less effort would have been put into a project that ultimately wasn't picked up (Assuming things still went the same way) Really the core bad guy here seems to be the lack of communication, too much time and effort spent in the dark, which rightfully left a sour taste in the devs mouths. It does come with good lesson, however, that an idea should be an idea, more than a full scale game project.
This. A lot happened to Scott those months, dude got cancelled just because he gave money to someone he thought could run the country better, doesn't mean he goes with ALL of their views. twitter b twitter yk Then Security Breach happened, the first "First-Person Ambitious FNAF game!" released and was horrible. I think what happened is Scott was 100% willing to fund the idea, but once stuff got turbulent he got startled and started to renegotiate with his thoughts. Then Security Breach launched and that made him know he was not going to fund this because what if it turns into another problem game? Nobody is in the wrong, but it's a series of mishap that caused this.
For a franchise owner, this is a very s****y job, but that’s just it, Scott Cawthon isn’t really cut out to be a franchise owner, he has a family and his own personal life, he seemed to have worked better as just a creator only having to worry about lore and gameplay rather than owning and running a whole franchise with merch and contracts and legal issues, i feel like it’s good to remember that this isn’t a massive board of directors trying to stay cheap, this is one person in lots of trouble with fans trying to both calm his life down and still remain a part of the game world he made
I agree. I hope we get news in the near future that Scott _has_ hired like some kinda team to help him with this on a permanent basis. Beyond just Clickteam.
For as much effort as the author may have put into this... it definitely doesn't feel like a FNAF game doesn't excuse scott for taking it so damn long to answer these guys tho also, as a fellow indie devs, I must say... the Aftonbuilt's team strategy was quite bad, as you *rarely* ever need something beyond an MVP-style prototype in order to know whether your game's concept is good enough or not. No matter how much glitter and polish you throw at it, if it's not a good concept (for the matter), it'll never get to be this way.
I'm sorry that the developers weren't able to get that opportunity but I really don't think it's such a terrible thing as people make it out to be. Sure Scott shouldn't have made them wait for an answer (Scott needed to communicate clearly and he just didn't) but it's poor practice to base your whole game on the approval of some foreign entity. If you shoot for the stars don't be surprised when you miss it. Who knows why it got rejected it: maybe he thought it was too ambitious, maybe he thought the characters were too tied into the original story, idk. The point of it all is that they don't need Scott to produce a successful game and Scott is under no obligation to extend his hand to them. Look at how much popularity they have right now with all the people talking about them, if they wanted they could still release the game and I promise you they would still have a large following. They do cool work and people are interested - could probably Branch into a non-fnaf project if they wanted. point of the matter is they still have eyes on them and would probably have a successful Kickstarter if they ran one (they would have to alter their game for copyright reasons I believe, but this is doable. Look at how 'fighting is magic' turned into 'them's fighting herds') You don't need Scott, sure it's nice and helpful to have the big man on your side. But if you really want to do it then don't let that take you down you're good developers. You can probably even do better work when working under your own prerogative. See this as an opportunity - one door closes and another opens. And for Scott I really think the poor guy gets a lot worse than he deserves. Dudes out here offering money for something that he has no obligation or benefit for doing and he gets trashed on for basically anything. True he shouldn't have responded so late, but honestly this whole fanverse has been more hassle than it's worth - considering what has happened with some devs. Idk, just maybe try to empathize with both sides?
@@Dr.Oofers then he should have not announced the fan verse then if he can't put his entire attention on it there's no point of it existing. At this point it should go on hiatus until things on his plate clear up.
Guys....it took two years to produce this 40 minute "sort of" demo. Think about this. The dev was promising all of these other elements and modes and 3,000+ possible gameplay combinations on top. The reason why Scott didn't approve this is because he'd be paying a group of people for YEARS for something that for all he knows might not come out given it's clearly above the scope of what this team should be working on. On the topic of Scott's communication, he announced the initiative making it openly clear that the point of the fanverse initiative is for him to be as hands off and not involved as humanly possible. Not to get stuck for five years in limbo having back and forths with the fan team. The Aftonbuilt situation is literally the exact thing he's trying to avoid, and you would too. Liam's rant at the very start of the video on what you need to consider before trying to become a part of the fanverse only had one truth out of a bunch of nonsense. "Try not to overdo it on the game itself." If aftonbuilt with its ambitious design was presented to Scott in a near finished state, he would have taken it on. Show him "I made this demo in two years and I want you to pay me for god knows how many more years until this full featured thing maybe comes out" and of course he's gonna hop out. Before you turn this into some dev vs dev flamewar, just step back and think about this business decision logically.
Presenting an almost finished game makes close to sense when you account for the fact that Scott asked Liam to design a new game altogether. I agree with pretty much everything else you said though
@@cococop6679 yeah i don’t know the full timeline of what went down, but i do know that if i was Scott and you approached me saying “this pitch demo took me two years”…well hell i think everybody would pass on that, not just me. Aftonbuilt doesn’t have the team it needs to get out in a reasonable time and i think that’s the real key takeaway from this situation. i’m convinced you can pitch an incredibly ambitious fanverse title and get accepted as long as you’ve proven you can actually do the job without bleeding Scott forever. too many people focusing on the wrong things, blaming security breach for being ambitious. it has nothing to do with SB or anything besides common business sense
No no no no no, they gave him demos those demos weren't "Good" enough or enough of what he wanted. He took a YEAR just to sign an Non disclosure agreement.
@@ahorserunning Average indie game development period is 5 years. Average Pro\AAA game development is at least 8. A playable demo that looks good\promising and was produced in less than 2 years(accounting that he almost took a year to respond and sort out the kind of contract he wanted to offer), with NO budget and a small team of people that worked on it in their free time, with a clear and achievable objective, would literally make ANY game producer VERY happy. It shows that you're dedicated to the project, have a good work flow, good dev pipeline and can manage your team well. Like I get most of y'all are ignorant about developing games and want to protect your favourite millionaire developer at all costs, but at least educate yourself a little?
@@DeadKraken Trying to make up some overall average length of game development time doesn't even make sense here. Game development varies wildly depending on the project. There have been many massive triple A series that have come out at annual and bi-annual basis all the time, not 8 years(ie, you think the average length for triple A is the 8 year development hell Cyberpunk 2077 went through to come out. One of the most legendarily memed on releases for its infinite delays in games history this side of duke nukem. That's the average according to you. Longer than an entire console generation's lifespan). There are indie games that get developed solo in the span of a single weekend, let alone 5 years(FNAF for example had 4-5 full game releases in the span of time it took to make this demo/pitch for a fan game). This is a completely pointless strawman, and I'm not even sure why you felt the need to pull these pointless 'averages' out of your ass in the first place. We need to look at the concept, overall scope, the team size and skill, and the progress made for projects on an individual basis. The objective of developing this game did not feel achievable in a reasonable amount of time with this team in my opinion. Clearly, given the entire subject of this video, this would not make any game producer very happy. Dropping the game because it didn't make it into the initiative does not show any dedication to the project. Two years for a concept pitch is not good workflow. And over promising on future game features and other endless possibilities when you're still at level 1 pitch phase is not exactly great pipeline(see Security Breach). Drop the shade that everybody else is ignorant to games development or that it's all some childish white knighting for Scott, you're being ridiculous.
People tend to forget where Scott came from, all his games being failures and being clowned on before fnaf. Any slight slip up and everyone in the fanbase falls apart and the backlash is off the charts. Ever since fnaf 4 I feel Scott has been very wary of what he invests time into and what he wants surrounded around his series. Cause at the end of the day, no one's gonna see it from his perspective, the internet these days is too childish and blinded. . . Too quick to rage and slander.
It's still incredibly scummy to drag them along like that, game development ain't easy, And a game like this I imagine was incredibly difficult, so Scott dragging them along without any pay is non-excusable
scott who was taking a long time to respond was probably responding to alot of other people checking alot of other work ect. EDIT: this might've seemed very cruel of scott and it was cruel but you can't just invite 100 people over to a party when there is only enough food for 20
@@Leon-lt3in Be decent enough to send an email saying that you are really busy and that you would respond as soon as you can at least. Not 2 to 4 weeks of silence. That's just unprofessional.
@@TheRealAlexFlame I wouldn't be suprised if he forgot to write the email or he had soo much emails that, that specific message got pilled up under other emails.
@@rafsandomierz5313 hire a manager then, idk why people defend scort this much when there is literally a simple solution of getting a team handle your shit if you're busy
tbh Scotts whole life was ruined just because of him having an opinion, he most likely wasn't in the right mind set just because he declined a game that was hardly a FNAF game doesn't mean he is some greedy person
I think the two main things that killed this was that FNAF shifted towards appealing to children to sell more merch and appeal to a more profitible demographic, and this game would've clearly overshadowed Security Breach if it got actual funding to staff a larger team. If only Jelatine just created their own IP with what they had when Scott was initially unresponsive. It would've been pretty funny if Jelatine appealed to the old FNAF base, that wants the horror aspect to come back, so FNAF could continue down the kid-friendly corporate facade the FNAF universe used to mock so much.
The sad part as well isn't necessarily the whole Scott Debacle for me. I just find the work they put in to have gone to waste because as its own thing with story changes and stuff, Afton Built would be a very incredible title on its own. I don't enjoy the conception of the fanverse to be as specifically targeted to merch sales, even though I do understand a want for a quick buck. I can't exactly promise I wouldn't make rash decisions or not answer important calls or reject good ideas because I know I am not the budgeting type and am also just a mess of a person. I can't fully gauge how difficult making a game truly is, nor how hard it would be to budget or retain contact, or any of the financial chaos and lack of communication presented in this case study of sorts. I can't do better, but I can at least tell the product they were working on was actually promising and it is sad to see them struggle for basically token compensation. I am sorry for the crew who worked so hard for naut, and hope if they do manage to try and make a game, they can bounce back and show their best hopefully without such specific strings attached.
They could essentially just re write the story and replace any FNAF assets to make it it's own thing. This would allow them to set up crowd funding. It is up to them though if they wish to go through with this. It would still take a heap of work.
To give credit where credit is due, I definitely see how Scott could have seen this as another Security Breach situation and shut it down because he thought it would fall apart. And in all honesty, I'm with him on this one. The project looks cool but it's just too ambitious for a fan game. Scott reached out looking for a final nights sort of experience, or at least something like that. He didn't want a game too big for it's clothes, which is pretty much what he got. And once again, it IS his decision.
Tbh I really don’t see how Scott did anything wrong? Like I 100% empathize with the Aftonbuilt team’s frustrations, but I think they’re only seeing it from their own perspective. For a busy dude like Scott, who has a family and a business and tons of other stuff to take care of, to get back to them at all, let alone only in a few weeks is not that crazy. He was in the midst of helping with Security Breach, dealing with controversy, handling all the other games in the fanverse- he sorta had a lot going on. I think both sides had different ideas about what this was supposed to be. Scott just wanted them to make a simple fan game, but they wanted to make something bigger. I don’t blame them for being disappointed in how things went, and I do think Scott should learn to have a few people he trusts take over with correspondence instead of trying to do _everything_ himself, but it really is what it is. There’s nothing stopping the dev’s from retooling Aftonbuilt into its own original game completely divorced from FNAF, then they can safely crowdfund it and not worry about all the stress they went through before.
This is why I think applying to the fanverse is risky, for one, by applying to the fanverse and sharing it to Scott, it makes it technically Scott's property. And two, if you get rejected, well... It's practically done for you. If you really wanted to get your game going and maybe sell it, then you either have to be trusted by Scott so much, he will literally invite you to the fanverse, although unlikely it could happen. Or, if you are rich enough, you can fund it and sell it on your own, and maybe you can also sell merch too (this can only happen if you don't use Scott's copyrighted material, unless they can agree on a deal, which is unlikely). Also, let's not forget that practically, fanverse is for already existing big and well known fan games (except Fnaf+ but you get what I'm trying to say here). So, I don't think "applying" would really work.
Fantastic video! :-) You just got a sub from me. The only thing my gut feels like I can fully put fault on Scott for is the time it took between e-mails. I believe it should have been clear to Scott that this was not going to be a game he would not want to sign off on and that, instead of two years of waiting and working, it could have taken placed all within a month or two.
It sucks Scott won't even allow fans to self fund the game either, I would TOTALLY buy merch made specifically of Aftonbuilt. TShirts with the unique designs like foxy or that rebuilt chica. Coffee Mugs, etc.
I disargee, The project is far too ambitious which could cause problems and most likely will cost more to produce then any other of the games being made.
@@_xymi There was a lot of choices. 1) Being more communicative. 2) Putting positive reinforcement about what he wanted for the fanverse and giving clear goals. 3) Not having the entire team developing a grueling technical demo to convince him of their project 4) Not changing up payment terms out of nowhere. And probably more I'm just not thinking of. Narrowing the situation down to just "two choices" is not correct. I'm not mad he denied it, I'm just disappointed at the mismanagement and disarray. I'm not gonna suck his cock because he's the dev of one of my favorite game series. He's done dumb shit before, and this does not sound at all implausible to what I've learned about him over the years.
I've been surfing around every Aftonbuilt video I can find recently, because A.) I love the developers, as Final Nights are my favorite fangames, and B.) Aftonbuilt is obviously incredible. But this new information just makes me really sad. Scott demonstrated incredible unprofessionalism, borderline "artists working for exposure," and yes while he still ultimately has the right as the funder to not support the project if he doesn't feel it's a worthwhile investment, that doesn't excuse that Liam and Jelatine poured so much effort into this game and they more than deserved to be compensated. If Scott wanted a simple, marketable game, I don't see why he didn't just take Liam's initial offer of simply remastering the Final Nights series, as there's more than enough iconic animatronics there from the Burnts, to the Reapers, just to name a few. It's good they retain the right to keep working on Aftonbuilt if they so choose, but given the experience behind the scenes and the fact they clearly needed the funding, that basically means the game will never be finished, because they can't even crowdfund it. I know these developers are amazing, and I agree that whatever they make will be amazing, but I feel after the hurdles they jumped through only to have it thrown back in their faces they deserve to have this vision fully realized. This whole ordeal just makes me upset.
Because it was made with no intention of monetary gain. It was one of the first fnaf games to come out and Scott liked the passion. This video was very poorly made lacking critical information and heavily biased. Afton built was made with the premise that it was going to get it in with ZERO confirmation from Scott. It’s their fault for assuming that their hard work HAD to be repayed from someone who didn’t need them in the first place
WTF WE HIT TRENDING #35?!
*Markiplier is the greatest.*
*EDIT 2: after my interview with Liam, I allowed them to view the video and sign off on it before release. They did.* However, upon the release of this video, according to Liam, "Fanverse devs" began reaching out to them and _threatening_ to report them to Scott for speaking with me (here is their exact statement i.imgur.com/SM8a12n.jpg ).
Liam was obviously panicked, and after some back-and-forth, I agreed to remove one word from this video (4:08), as a courtesy to Liam. To be honest, it's kind-of obvious what it is and 250k viewers already saw it, but whatever - removing this one word has very little impact on the video, and if it makes Liam feel better, it's fine. However, It's incredibly messed up that these Fanverse devs would allegedly try to threaten and intimidate Liam over an intellectual property _they have no ownership rights over.*_ If Liam is telling the truth (and I've found them to be credible and have no reason to believe they aren't), these Fanverse devs that are allegedly harassing and threatening Liam are clowns. Who the hell do they think they are? The "defenders of FNAF?l"
Work on your _games;_ you aren't Scott. _Aftonbuilt_ has showed us more actual progress than _most_ official Fanverse games have. That's reality.
**[UPDATE]**After asking around enough, I was finally able to track down a screenshot of the alleged "legal threats" referenced above (Liam has not replied since I let them know I made the cut for them). While I of course didn't see the whole conversation, if that is indeed all there was to it, then it's definitely not a case of what _I_ would refer to as threats.
Nothing else Liam said was suspicious, and they had overwhelming evidence that supported their entire story. A lot of this evidence is included in the video, in the form of the pitch videos. Furthermore, no one has disputed the factual validity of Liam's claims in this video. They were credible, and this is a good example of why I worded the above so carefully
*EDIT:* the response to this video has been overwhelmingly positive. I'm incredibly grateful, and I'm appreciative that people were able to empathize with Liam and the Jelatine team's situation. It sucks. However, this isn't about "Scott bad/Jelatine good". We don't need to "take sides" on every conflict or disagreement. This situation is complicated, and while I empathize with Liam and Jelatine, I also understand Scott has a ton of stuff on his plate while he manages a big franchise. It's just an unfortunate outcome; we don't need to point fingers.
DESCRIPTION:
It was really cool of the dev to share this insight with us, and their frustrations are really understandable. I think we can all agree that _Aftonbuilt_ is an _incredibly_ impressive demo. The work speaks for itself. While it wasn't meant to be, I'm excited to see what the _Aftonbuilt_ contributors bring us in the future! Please show them some love; nothing in this video wouldn't have been possible without them and their hard work.
U got it 👍
@axo "first reply" 🤓🤡
are you a furry?
To think Scott turned his back on gelatin despite already making an agreement that's just no
Theft I got a question for you, there seems to be a lack of proof in this video. Were you showcased evidence prior to the release of this video? If not, I highly suggest you take this down until significant evidence is shown, as you could be spreading serious slander about Scott.
I feel it took so long for Scott to decide whether to greenlight it or not was due to the state Security Breach was in. Security Breach clearly was a disaster behind the scenes and seeing as it was the most ambitious project FNAF has had I'm not surprised Scott was a bit nervous to greenlight any other project like that. Once Security Breach came out and the reception it got, it was probably the final nail in the coffin for this game.
Unfortunate
_last nail in the Cawthon_
Swcurity breach was actually going pretty smoothly with little to no objections during the development phase. If it werent for them constantly adding new ideas on the fly ut would've been amazing
@@alexnewby2004 that and the fans annoying them so they rush it out
@@Toy_freddyofficial1 it is always annoyinf when buffoons like you try to put the blame on anyone but the devs
I think Security Breach REALLY messed up Scotts thoughts on very ambitious games. Security Breach was a very ambitious game and it wasnt handled very well and i think that Scott is just scared of something like Security Breach happening again
Yep, definitely.
If he maneged Secruity Breach the same way as he managed Aftonbult, than it explains a lot.
Security Breach just released way to early. All fault to those impatient fan demanding it.
@@sirbachelorboredmen1314 fr
@@sirbachelorboredmen1314 Actually it wasn't the fans fault, it was revealed that it was actually because they had a deadline to do with a agreement with Playstation. Since FNAF Security Breach was a PS4/5 exclusive for a while. And they were forced to do the rest without the assistance of Scott, who also retired at the time
I’m just shocked that Scott is seemingly insisting on carrying this multi million dollar franchise singlehandedly. The man is co-authoring books, thinking about merch, inspecting new games, handling FNAF’s legal weight and dealing with this fanverse stuff whilst communicating solely through email. All the while in the midst of retirement. Whilst trying to raise half a dozen children.
All of this would’ve gone so much better if Scott hired a handful of people to at least offer some input in certain areas or even outright manage them on his behalf. I understand that trust is a big factor here but it would absolutely free up his schedule. Fuck, he could hire a guy to sift through his emails at least. It’s impressive that he’s been acting as a one man army for so long but one person can only do so much.
Yeah, I highly respect him for handling the franchise almost single-handedly all these years, but he really needs to hire someone or several people to decrease the workload on him, so he can spend time with his family and so he doesn't take several weeks to do things like respond to emails.
He is afraid that without him people would get a little greedy and we will end up getting multiple shitty mobile games , Horrible soulless walking simulators And ruined lore
i mean FNAFs lore isn't rlly tight anyway he shouldn't worry too much about it lmao
Its his creation, he is afraid of it becoming like AAA games
and by doing that you would get a board of people that would result in not taking any decisions and making fanbase dead - EA / Valve
Have the creators of AftonBuilt considered using this game as a basis to create a non FNaF related game and pitching it to publishers? The concept itself is really good, and they would only need to create new models for the already built game. The fact that they have put so much time into this makes it feel even more viable.
Surely, right? I mean, they even just change the FNaF related things into a Frankenstein-esque monster builder kind of thing. I'm not saying it wouldn't be difficult and time consuming, but it seems like a legitimately sellable idea with a bit of changing.
They'd be insane not to. Assuming they already made sure the developers signed over any rights to their work to Gelatine.
As a programmer (IT), If they signed the contract given to them at the end (the one where scott allowed them to continue but no crowdfunding) then no. It would cause a legal battle if they continue it.
They either have to give up and hand over the project and source code to Scott, or they have to pay Scott's investment to their project (ie that money they got so they could continue, this is before the contract) in order to regain back the rights to the project. And if they did manage that, they have to rework the assets for the animatronics and story.
If not, then they have to start over. And use their experience to recreate it or make a new game.
@@ashurad_fox5991 Wait, but if Scott only gave the time that money in goodwill, no contract or anything involved, why could they not just continue? And doesn't the video cover the contract? I think in the end they didn't sign it.
@@ashurad_fox5991 how is it illegal to copy paste pieces of code you wrote?
@@MDG-mykys its similar to how you cant plagiarize other peoples papers in school, you want to say the same thing but its illegal to say the same words
This is a really tricky conflict and, frankly, it'd be arbitrary to try and pick sides on who was right and wrong in this particular scenario.
My take on this and what can be learned from it is simple: Don't rely your ambition and expectations from your project on an outside influence.
The "Fazbear Fanverse" Initiative is one of those that sounds good on paper but slowly starts falling apart the more you think about it, all due respect to Cawthon. A good way to describe it would be "a concept many people are interested in being a part of but don't quite understand how said concept works or what led to creating it to begin with". My take on the F.F. initiative is a concept originated so Scott could license classic FNaF fan-creations that became iconic parts of the game's culture (Candy's. Flumpty's. TJoC, etc.) that slowly evolved into one that could license newer fan-creations that would grow big enough to become very popular outside the FNaF community.
I don't think anything such as "Applying for the Fanverse" could ever work and honestly? I'm surprised this team got this far. The answer is simple, I doubt Scott is looking to "Recruit" promising fangames that deserve a spotlight in the community. But rather pre-existing big creations that could potentially mean a profit on all sides were they licensed by S.C.
Now is this "scummy" or "greedy" in a sense? noooot necessarily, not at all. since after all this is a copyrighted license we are talking about whose creator has all the right to decide the fate of the derivative creations that originated from it.
This is something that, sadly, not many fans may be concious about.
By relying all your work, motivation, ambition and expectatives on the final decision of the big man himself, you're putting your otherwise passion project into a walk through ice, it's future DEPENDS on someone that frankly doesn't have that much interest in it given there are much bigger fish in the sea that are way easier to "grab". This team put their dedication and focus into an aspect that wasn't really the one Scott was paying attention to, sadly.
Projects like this are the ones you shouldn't depend on anyone for, that kind of stuff is what pushes you back the most. You make an original, good quality game that YOU are happy with and then you present it to publishers and companies on YOUR OWN TERMS, otherwise you end up having your passion project be attached on people that may not even be interested on it's future to begin with, of course it will leave a sour taste on your mouth.
I was contacted for FF for my stuff once, I declined for that very reason. I don't wanna depend on others to have my project reach it's potential, I don't plan on running things over to people that may just not have the same vision I have.
In the end, no one's at fault. This is the result of two very different visions on a concept, I can tell the team has a lot of potential and hopefully someone will pick up that very potential someday. Scott isn't necessarily at fault here either, none of the decisions he made were really out of ill intent or anything like that, business be business.
don't turn a passion project into business, great video man!
Dude. Martin! Legend! I'm so stoked you liked it! 🤍 Agree 100%.
This sums things really nicely. And the right/neutral way. I dont deal with games or publishers. But i agree with point and stuff.
Bro just wrote the whole epic of gilgamesh
Damn, this was definitely a good response to this drama.
That's a great and neutral response
As someone who's done a lot of freelancing, the team of Aftonbuilt made a huge mistake. During concepting, it's important to make things as quickly and simply as possible. This game is "impressive", but that's a problem. If the client doesn't like the concept, then it doesn't matter how hard they worked on it or how impressive it is. The core isn't desirable to the client. Always finalize your concepts with your clients with very rough drafts before getting super invested in a project.
In the video even after their first demo they showed Scott he only arranged for a contract for a small amount of funding but they still hadn’t “proved” themselves, they couldn’t have been simpler
@@kori612 That's probably when they should have quit, unfortunately
@@kori612 As OP mentioned the problem was that they hadn't showed off enough concept and did it at a slow rate..it was impressive what they made, yea, but it didn't quite sell the idea of the game (we only see one level, no ideas on what's next after it, it doesn't fully off the concept and doesn't fit what scott was wanting). They wasted time making a full functioning part of a game instead of something to show off concept..an entire level of a game isn't "simple".
@@testerwulf3357 the entire level was whst they madr after being askrd to prove themselves morr, wording is key, proving yourself and showing more are different
@@ZeroKitsune you'd quit and not try at all?
This really fucking sucks because it looked so interesting I hope some people take the concept and make a fan game out of that
A fangame of a fangame. Clever shit.
original*
It *is* a fan game, just not in the fanverse meaning they aren't backed by Scott, they have to release it free, and they can't use a Kickstarter due to them using copyrighted material (Scott's characters) Edit: and as you can see, most members need to be compensated in order to continue coding/I think it's mostly their artists that are struggling.
@@amberhynes1131 I forgot about that damn it oh well maybe someone out there will make it
@@amberhynes1131 That's such bs that people can't even have kickstarters. That's so wrong on many levels, it's really gross.
I was not expecting to hear myself in this video 😂 but good video and very valid points!
Ayy fusion
Wow
@@oooferdouble6000 wow
Ayy :)
@@chrome6282 wow
I honestly think Scott's Insecurities (get it ?) was caused by FNAF SB. It was an ambitious project just like Aftonbuilt. That flopped really hard on Fandom Expectations. Both by pushing from fans and playstation to release it before it was done. I think Scott is just concerned that this project won't launch in a promising state due to it's ambitious storytelling and gameplay. All they needed was money and time. Both Steelwool and Gelatin. Sadly, one was not given The Proper Time and one was not given The Proper Money. It's kind of poetic in a twisted sort of way...
While my mind went to the exact same assumption, nobody I spoke to attributes _Aftonbuilt's_ rejection to _Security Breach._ The fact that Scott was allegedly still negotiating with the Jelatine team in good faith after SB had dropped makes it unlikely
I got emotional over this... I'm the concept artist and I created the mechanic and everything they are, we had so much going for this game and the only way I can describe the feeling of scott changing his mind after 2 years of our hard unpaid work is heartbreaking... I've cried multiple times over losing this game... I'd work on it for free if the team wanted to continue development, but it's not my place to choose... The support from the community has been increadible though... Love you all
The mechanic looked super cool! The animatic at the start looked really impressive. It's a shame because the team was clearly full of incredibly talented, professional people. You guys are awesome and you're gonna make Scott regret rejecting _Aftonbuilt,_ either together or individually.
dude the mechanic was so fucking sick, thank you for making him. wish he got fully realized. man
I really hope the team finds a way to keep the development going eventually, it's incredible and it's so sad to see it go like this
You are a amazing person by doing this, i hope you know that.
Keep going doesn't have to be with FNAF just do it go out there and make something.
I think security breach has ruined Scott’s idea of ambitious games
I think the devs of aftonbuilt should try and salvage the assets from the game and make it into an original horror experience. Similar to how rare turned project dream into banjo kazooie in the 90s.
Honestly yeah your right, Security breach did just kinda ruin Scott's whole perspective on new and ambitious game projects for the Fandom verse.
Poor Scott, his game was butchered so quick
No it not
@@rohayaismail3708 It obviously is, why would Scott turn down such a big and ambitious game if the most recent game was a big ambitious game that got terrible reception?
Look at the demo for Aftonbuilt and Imagine what these guys could have done with the budget of Security Breach.
I mean, I wasn't really blown away. The gameplay didn't look all that different from the dozen other free roam fan games over the years. Basically the only thing carrying the idea was the concept, and even then there are reasons not to include it in the lineup for that reason.
@@Kjf365 it wasn’t particular amazing to me but it still looks smoother than security breach…
@@socksman9968 And probably had less bugs and glitches than Security Breach.
They Would've Made A Good Game Which Might Wouldn't Have All Those Bugs And Glitches Security Breach Had
I think what you said about the fanverse being for games that HAVE to be within the story of FNaF is a very fitting description. I also think that Aftonbuilt is one of those games! The story is the only thing linking it to FNaF, it's one of the few games that you can't just throw random characters into and it still works. It incorporates the story so amazingly well, even giving a reason for Scraptrap and why he looks different. I really don't see why Scott said no, Afonbuilt is perfect for the fanverse, with the creators even changing the models so they could milk it for new merch like the new Foxy and the amazing Chica model you showed a few times. Really sad to hear about how Scott handled this. Not just because he declined them but just the way he treated the devs.
I pretty much expect the total opposite from Fanverse games. They shouldn't tie into FNaF lore at all, if possible.
Out of five already approved games, neither of them dwelves into the lore. Candy's, Flumpty and TJoC are its own stories. POPGOES takes some minor FNaF characters, but brings them into a whole new context. As a remake, FNaF+ is meant to retell the past events, so again - make its own thing.
As much as I want as high-quality game as Aftonbuilt in Fanverse, I don't like it from the story standpoint really. It is a non-canon fangame after all, and it shouldn't confuse people over the main lore. I don't like their take on the remnant from what I gather really. FNaF+ has it already tough enough with Phisnom constantly repeating that the game isn't canon. That's why I don't like the story here. It's an extension to FNaF3 rather than its own story.
Well I mean, could pretty easily alter the plot to something different. Example, you are trying to build a robot for some unspecified reason (make it a mystery to intrigue the audience), why these robots are hanging around, etc. Like there is enough there to make something of your own.
You can. I'm simply addressing the thoughts from the initial comment.
I think Scott was tired after dealing with the whole security breach situation and didn't want to fund such an ambitious project
@@Ponguj I can understand your viewpoint, having games that are officially supported tell stories that aren't official could (and does) get confusing fast. However I still think that the Fanverse handling story games is better overall. If a game doesn't connect to FNaF at all apart from the genre, it's just that. A DIFFERENT game in the same GENRE. Being in the FNaf Fanverse should mean connecting to the game. Still I can see why you have basically the exact opposite of my opinion, especially seeing as what sort of games are actually present in the Fanverse right now.
*I get Scott's alleged concerns with big projects like after Security Breach,* but leaving a team high-and-dry for weeks on end, while still telling them to work on this demo project to join the fanverse. I mean, being a developer is _hard_ and with such a small team it's even harder, they spent months working on this project as if they were being pulled along on a string only to be giving a altered funding agreement and at the end denying them into the fanverse is just... shitty? Considering the fact they worked their asses off for peanuts and buttons. Scott just wanted them to continue working on this game with bad funding on the hopes they'll be accepted in.
If _pure_ 100% originality was such a key factor in Scott's hesitation, then why would he accept other big projects such as TJoC, FNaC & Flumpty's? No shade towards them or their respective devs, but...
Scott was dealing with a lot of stuff at the time, Absolutely ridiculous backlash and harassment due to political nonsense so it's reasonable in my mind as to why he should take time off as he had a lot on his plate, And for all we know he COULD have had plans to bring Aftonbuilt into the fanverse if they improved and worked on their concept but it just fell through due to any circumstances that arose.
TJoC, Flumpty’s, and FNaC were already well-established games at that point. They were popular, well-known, but most importantly well-received fan-games, so it only made sense to greenlight them. I think that AftonBuilt only being in demo form at the time, and with the Security Breach backlash, it led to him being hesitant. I still think he handled the situation in the worst way imaginable, He should not be the one handling this all alone, and that’s where I find Scott’s biggest problem. This franchise is too big for him to decide on alone, and his persistence on him being the be all end all leads to situations like this. I hope the best for the developers and I hope they can get the best possible outcome, whatever that may be.
Scott is worth millions, it’s a miracle he even communicated with them at all. People always blame the rich guy, but don’t acknowledge that they are human and have a life.
@@tylerd.1 I think it's less that he's a millionaire but more along the lines of that he has a family, A wife and kids and had them even before his rise to being famous. He's made his millions and can live comfortably and pay the bills and feed himself and his kids and wife, And send his kids through college and whatnot, Basically what every parent wants, Honestly I'm really happy for him and I wish him the best.
@@FrederickTheAnon14W yeah, that’s what I meant when I said that he has a life
Ambition is what this series needs. Aftonbuilt is a bit...out there. But similarly to TJOC, an out there concept can work in the spirit of FNAF, even if it's a bit more realistic looking. This series is drowning in samey games and lack of new ideas. I highly respect this project
Same, it’s way of using irregular gameplay and unique lore is super interesting!
Ambition is what hurt security breach, it’s literally the *main* reason the game almost failed
@@patientboat1979 no the main reason is the absurd amount of glitches and how horribly rushed it was
@@patientboat1979 there's a difference between ambition and delusion, the Security Breach team was delusional in their goals for the game, whilst with AftonBuilt we have a demo that actually delivers and shows the goals for the project. Im feeling like Scott is just not in the best position to be the ultimate voice in regards of the Fanverse, sad to see this kind of projects go ignored
@@patientboat1979 In my opinion, ambition is what the game needed. From the previous trailers fans expected an open-world, horrifying experience with Vanny as the main villain, but in-game she's barely seen, the overworld is glitchy and barren, and I believe the game had censorship issues with not allowing words such as "killed" despite the premise originally being so dark (if I'm wrong please correct me)
The projects from these top tier devs in the fnaf community is amazing to me, can't wait to see what they can make even if this didn't turn out to be
Bruh if someone would pay you loads of money to make a quality game you would too wont you?
@@LazyLoonz that would be the dream of many people
hi honorable mentioner
1: Scott can't sue you over "haunted animatronics" that theme was overdone less than a decade after Chucky cheese or whom ever created those creepy animatronics.
2: Scott can't sue you over gameplay as the gameplay isn't legally distinct from Night Trap on the Sega Saturn, so they'd have no legal ground to stand on.
3: The Fnaf "fanverse" should and can only legally contain works directly linked to the FNAF name or through signing a contract with Scott and Co.
Any work with "haunted animatronics" and/or Night Trap derivative gameplay can be sold on its own, Scott only holds the monopoly we let him. Even a game called "12 nights of Christmas" where you try and avoid haunted Christmas themed animatronics can still be sold independent of the "fanverse".
(for those few mentally deficients out there, this is not legal advice. Consult a lawyer or other learned in law before taking legal action. Obviously.)
That's a good summary of the MatPat segment. If you're not a lawyer though you should probably say. It's unlikely but someone could make an argument that they took some action based on you proclaiming these things as fact and then got in trouble.
@@theftking Fair, though one has to be a fool to take legal advice from a UA-cam comment. One should always do their diligence to research and ask professionals for advice.
Thanks for explaining FNAF as having Night Trap-derivative gameplay, things make a lot more sense now.
@@muffinchubby2352 True, a story told in many vague suggestions is hard to white off of, as the only one that has or knows the complete story or lore is the one telling it. Thus a truly canon fan work is virtually impossible as there's nothing concrete to write around.
4: scott can sue them over the code and assets
even if they change assets the contract doesn't allow them to use they're code from Unreal Engine 4 at all and even if they tried to remake it there is a chance that the code might look "too simmilar"
Honestly, I understand both sides of this conflict. I feel that both perspectives are valid in this case. On the bright side, not being under scott's legacy gives the creator an opportunity to have more creative freedom with their own vision, as well as independence without a need to wait for feedback on each step before proceeding. As an optimist, while the situation is definitely dissappointing and frustrating for many, taking a look on the brighter side of things helps to realize that it's not the end of everything, and it isn't the worst thing that could have happened, like a complete shut-down of the fan project via copyright or something like that. They can move at their own desired pace of development. Though, I must admit I have different feelings on the fact that crowd funding was off the table, imagining that that refers to charity and fan donations. I wonder if they could get away with holding a donation/charity funding event for the team in general, so they could still earn money without it being explicitly labeled for this project?
The thing about your first point is that feedback between the fanverse devs and Scott isnt happening. Theyre all on their own. But I agree with your point. Perhaps, this event can help them raise their own support.
@@angela.luntian Ohhh I must have missed that update, thanks for letting me know!
I don't think it's a good idea to do that last point. There is this sonic fan game called sonic omens that has a similar funding tactic and it's under A LOT of mixed controversy. It's possible to make money that way but it's a legal gray area that might not be the best way to go about things.
You have 47 subs and I have 27
@@GordanTheToad what about patreon? Perhaps Scott can let it fly if youre supporting the dev team instead of the game directly?
Hearing about how long it took for Scott to reply to emails, especially when people are actively trying to show their work to him, is worrying. I wonder if any of the other Fanverse game devs had to deal with this. I would be distraught if another ambitious game like this is tossed into the trash. Aftonbuilt shows a lot of promise, so I feel as if he should give them the funding, especially since this looks way more promising in the aftermath of Security Breach.
It IS worrying indeed.
More promising for a bigger mess than Security Breach? Don't get me wrong, game was cool but it was also too ambitious.
@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439 The game was also released as a Proof of concept, so of course its going to be buggy.
Pretty sure some of the fanverse devs already mentioned that communication between them and Scott is awful this really just explains how it's awful (And can also presumably be similar to what the other devs are dealing with)
I don't have too much understanding of the fanverse, but as a freelance artist the fact they were working for months with the promise of a funding deal dangled in front of them and then being ripped away at the last minute I feel is really worrying. Obviously they got paid something in the end but the communication could've been much improved. I really feel for them, that a lot of man hours.
While I was watching some of the footage from the game, I had the feeling that the game doesn't really feel like fnaf but something different. I honestly feel like people could make Aftonbuild really work as a unique game and not a fnaf fangame. The concept of the game is completely different from what I've seen any fnaf game do (and possibly even any fnaf fangame but I'm not 100% sure) and is definitly quite unique. While yes the name would need to be changed and there would be a bit of a change in characters and storyline, the idea of this game is perfect to not connect it to fnaf which makes it great for making it into a completely different game
I think that is a good suggestion, but I feel like because something is different doesn't mean it isn't good or acceptable. Me and a friend had a fangame concept that steered away from the entire horror concept of FNaF and focused more on a narrative and investigation system (as well as 3D action segments because I can never control myself when it comes to having some type of action in a game). I could explain it if you'd like but I won't do it by default as it's a long explanation.
Oh I should reclarify, a fangame doesn't need to be horror when it comes to relating to something else. I want to clarify that as so it doesn't seem that I'm misinterpreting what you're saying. I get it, it does stray away but it has aspects that could still fit in a sense.
I suddenly remember what Markiplier said about this game. He said that the creators of this project can create their own game because of how good and solid Aftonbuilt is. The concept intrigued him and he enjoyed it. He would love to see other games of the creators that have their own style, story, and ideas because he believes that they can do it.
This news makes me extremely scared for the future of the fanverse. And FNAF in general.
@Annistar oh come, stop exaggerating.
@Annistar amogus
@Annistar drama queen
@Annistar SB is overrated-
@@christosdoesthings best selling ≠ good game
I love how despite being a fangame, it shows an easily solution to why Springtrap in future titles look oddly different. Its a shame it got rejected.
I think this aftonbuilt game was honestly a good game just could have been its own game which became weirdly the problem
It kinda feels like a dick move by scott to leave them in the dark for several months to just change the funding agreement and at the end denying them into the fan-verse, they overworked themselves and boom Daniel access
I don’t know why everybody loves Scott.
@@embryjirak3426 because these days finding a dev that was as generous to his fans as he was is like finding a needle in a haystack
Like another commenter said, it was probably related to Security Breach.
@@embryjirak3426 I don't know why YOU hate Scott, please enlight us
@@murilodeavevedo5862 tbh he just always puts artists and writers on shit time limits. He made one of the official artist do an entire graphic novel in less than a year. The Fazbear frights authors have to write the books within months.
Also he won’t fire the artist who made a fanfic about William sexually harassing kids and also makes extremely sexual art of his characters.
So yeah. That’s why.
I really can't defend Scott's actions here. What he did to the team was scummy, leading them on for so long just to reject their ideas and make it so they can't even profit off of their hard work.
Just because you worked hard on something dosen't mean that you will get paid.
@@edwinve4112 Yeaaaaah like he didn't tell them to work on the game or anything right
@@edwinve4112 here’s the thing with that. Scott specifically told them to work, and at that point, had practically hired them to create a concept to see if it would be a good idea. Paying them for the work, even if the concept was refused, is just being a good boss.
Umm... It's his IP and he's scummy? sheesh people these days. You think the world owes you something for nothing. Get in line like the rest of us.
@@edwinve4112
RESPOND, COWARD!
I’d really like to hear Scott’s side of this story, assuming of course, he doesn’t take 7 years to respond.
"Scott's Side™ coming soon"
Well, Scott isn’t going to on account of heinous actions of others that caused him to leave all media forms
@@chrishandsome7012 you can’t claim you want to do cool stuff with your franchise, then shoot down anything you don’t specifically like with your franchise, then run off when the franchise fails or communication gets hard.
It’s like running a business, you can sit there do shit work, but it fails or no one likes you eventually. It’s not illegal, it’s reality.
The reality is, Scott is failing miserably tbh.
@@chrishandsome7012 He still pops up in Dawko's streams and afaik the majority of people are on his side. I dont think anything would happen if he just dropped in on Freddit and communicated with his fanbase again instead of being emo for a year over a cancellation attempt that honestly would have probably faded into obscurity in a day if people werent throwing fuel at it.
For real, that is very unprofessional. It's not hard to be timely, responding to an email should take no more than 3 business days.
I'm glad the devs still decided to let others play this fangame despite being rejected
it's funny because the unfinished nonlinear alpha demo of a fangame with nickel and dime budget is a better game than security breach.
agree.
Oh, wait. I just realized those two descriptions are the same thing
Who else thinks the development process of security breach messed up Scotts perception on fan games?
Wasn't there a time when Scott liked and was rather forward into giving fan games the credit and the respect they deserve no matter how little or how ambitious they were?
yes there was. its honestly depressing to see how much security breach messed up his perception of fan creations. even so it doesnt really explain why it took him 2 whole years for a contract that says "hey here's a drop of money. now make a more finished concept for the 30th time and then *maybe* ill let you into fanverse." i guess security breach was apart of that decision but two entire years? really?
Or maybe this project was meant to fail even with funding?
@@ranpo_edogawa I'll give you that
His way of funding the game and then ghosting the developers to only then suddenly pop out of nowhere and then orce them to cancel is a very dick move from Scott
@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439 still seem very douche-y to ignore their messages and change his mind on a whim on what he's been funding without giving it a chance
@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439 it clearly wasn't alot of people were interested in this and it was high quality
Obviously that doesn't guarantee success but hell it had a good shot and Scott kinda ruined it
I do wish this had gone differently; I'd really love to see varying sorts of games get into the fanverse to cover a bunch of different things people want out of FNAF. However, it's extremely difficult not to feel at least a little disheartened to hear 'why did X get in but not this game!!!'. There's plenty of passion being put into the existing fanverse properties. I desperately wish more people understood that this outcome is not the fault of Kane, or Emil, or anyone else working on smaller projects in this program. Folks are allowed their opinions but it feels like a lot of lashing out is being done at people who do not deserve it because a more ambitious project fell through. I genuinely wish Liam the best in whatever he decides to do after this despite it all.
Not only you are a good artist, but you're also good in words and thinking.
This has got me thinking... What is the Fazbear Fanverse about exactly? We know it's basically about FNAF Fan Games in a folder that will be associated as rewardingly outstanding, so we'd need distinguishable original characters and a distinguishable game, but if a game with great potential like AftonBuilt was rejected, then what's required to successfully enter, you know what I mean?
@@vloggerbonakid6178 characters that can be turned into funko pops and plushes.
The fact that it took Scott a year just to sign a NDA is absurd, I really hate how impartial people are pretending to be by implying it's acceptable for Scott to make someone wait more then a year before even considering accepting an NDA which is just a non disclosure agreement. Nevermind that he was asking for demos and having expectations for them to begin with, just remember he asked for a new game to be shown, they delivered. He asked for a demo, they delivered. But he was totally unwilling, every step of the way to commit to the project despite expecting a game of this caliber to continue to be in development. That doesn't even include the inherent power dynamic of Scott being a big time game developer shining his attention onto their work.
you do realize he has a life outside of fnaf a lot of people never take that into account
@@raymondtomas2294 Yes, but most people in the industry. (Popular or otherwise) Are professional enough to try and reply in a timely matter or, if they can't not try to do extra projects. Especially if those extra projects involve giving a team money for a prospect game. Expecting basic professionalism is not to much to ask, a year for an NDA is way to long.
@@raymondtomas2294 And the fandevs don't?
Damn thank you. I’d love to see everyone work their ass off for literally years with little to no pay except for a MAYBE and have to rely on hopes and an occasional email.
Bruh I agree so much I don’t understand these comments a lot of bootlickers of Scott.. man I love fan but ever since his controversy it really made me see true stuff about Scott like the poor ppl making this project working their ass off minimum wage only for Scott to say “ meh it wasn’t meant to be “ like do ppl in this discourse not see that ?? Oh “ he has kids n a wife a family! “ yeah and the developers of this game don’t ? Neither do the ppl in the fan verse huh
i hope in any way this game gets continued it has an idea that i find awsome clearly has great enemy potiential and seems like the perfect fnaf fangame
Honestly I feel bad for the guys. I know realistically you cant put all fnaf like games for the fanverse but It feels really scummy that these well known fangames got in but this one with a unique idea got kicked out.
It does suck to think if they had just done Final Nights 5 it probably would have had a better chance at getting in.
@@shadowbunny7892 seems like scott would accept anything thats the same fnaf gameplay recycled with eye catching animatronics from what he seems to be saying lmao
Well, keep in mind another similar project that came out. A freeroaming, ambitious, and now infamous FNAF title that absolutely bombed.
Security Breach's terrible failing might have had something to do with Scott's hesitancy to fund another similarly ambitious title.
@@siduxjxhdgzhdjxhxuuxxyhgg1079 TJOC has eye catching animatronics or recycled gameplay?
@@shadowbunny7892 FN ended at 4 long before the initiative was a thing so no, plus Liam literally said he could do remakes of all FN's, too bad Scott himself said to him "i want something original" which Liam did, Aftonbuilt is more original than half of the games in the initiative lol
I remember my parents say "being passionate about something is great, but sadly, when you go out and start doing work, being passionate can also make you even more stressful and that's why people only do what they're told, and ONLY that. Don't over-do something, just do what you're told and that's enough"
And I asked them, "why?"
And they said, "Because, money. and also, if you're so passionate about something, you'll be in a situation where you end up disappointed more frequently"
Your parents were deep
I was thinking about how similar you and Pastra were. Small UA-camrs who have had a very sudden jumpstart in subscriber counts, primarily focusing on FNAF/horror game content. And then you mentioned him at the end. Felt pretty cool.
Good video, by the by, it was informative and well made.
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! The reception has been insanely positive and I'm really glad.
They could just retexture Foxy into a wolf, remove or replace all references to FNaF and change the title to something like "Afterbuilt", similar to the current, yet not using the original title, and then they'd probably be free to launch a crowdfunding campaign as there's little to no relation to FNaF, just, like, let's say a murderer, Bill After, was murdered in some animatronic factory and stuffed into some rabbit suit, then burnt and now he wants the player to rebuild them to get revenge on their murderer; it would be more of an original idea (as he didn't kill any children, he was a murderer, but didn't do it, instead he was killed, unlike in FNaF where he basically killed himself) and kinda a plot mess, but well, they'd be free to do whatever they wanted, with no need to negotiate anything with someone who unfortunately can't make their mind and support people who should've been supported
At this point just make a parody game
You can't just do that, most assets in the game are based on FNaF, you can't deny about Scooper being in the game and animatronics parts .
if that's the case they have to remodel all models
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad If the only map related item is the scooper then the scooper can be changed to something else. Scott doesn’t own the concept of a mechanical shovel nor does he own the concept of animatronics needing maintenance.
@@vibezonegaming
Yes but again he does own the character, not the concept. It's very confusing when he said "it's lack originality"
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad ?
Hope this team continues to make other games; scotts behavior here is appalling and the team deserves to make a game with a propper company behind them.
🤓
Another Angle to look at, especially with what other comments have pointed out. It's probably just too much of a risk to have something this big in the fanverse given how some of the other devs have been. jonochromes Controversy, Phisnom openly bashing and leaving the fandom and Nikson being basically unable to really work on his game. I totally understand why Scott changed his mind and finds this game too risky. All that work and Funding could be undone if even one of the devs decides to leave, cause drama or be unable to work on the game.
The lack of communication should definitely be held accountable for however, That's not cool.
I know about most of those dev's situations, but if you don't mind me asking. Wth is going on with Nikson(TJOC guy)? Why is he unable to work? Is he sick or something?
@@sleepylmguy9968 He works for a company whose i can't remember the name and is busy with work. However he said he has big plans for TJOC after he can get back at it with Unreal Engine 5
@@QuandaleDingle_69 if I remember correctly he’s a coder for dark deception
@@Dogzononzo8820 Exactly!
But it was pretty obvious that they were currently working on the game and they were very very dedicated to it so I don't understand where this point is going.
The game seems really interesting as a game. But it doesn't seem like a FNAF game. It seems more like another game using FNAF as an inspiration.
Managing resources in a spooky theme is pretty much all fnaf is. This has those, but in a much different way. It's an action based game, deviating greatly from what the LCD wants from FNAF. Honestly, they should keep the game idea, and remove the FNAF elements, and make it as something else. Animatronics are still fine, but just not FNAF.
The best way I can sum it up is the transition of Paper Mario TTYD to Super Paper Mario. Sure, all the things are there, but there's such a MASSIVE difference gameplay wise. BOTH good games, but one shouldn't be a continuation of another, and both could stand as their own respective titles.
It's security breach but better
Think you're basically spot on. FNAF+ is literally FNAF. Candy's is FNAF with different characters. Everyone remembers TJOC for the free roaming but by Story Mode it was pretty much just FNAF again but the Sister Location kind where it's a different resource management game every "night." Not to belittle any of those, FNAC3 and TJOC:SM are great games on their own merits, but they all follow the formula. This seems like too much of a departure for Scott to want to put to official brand on it. Hopefully they do their own thing with it eventually.
@@Allied0Computer clearly you haven't played it
@@LazyLoonz security breach is trash 🤣😂
@@SuperiorPrimate-jw9bt it's actually good, not perfect but good, you should play it.
Yeah, I don't think anyone is at fault, just people with different agendas. I think the Aftenbuilt devs had a grand idea and went all-in way too soon, thinking that presentation and indie studio level talent would guarantee their way in. I'm not saying that smaller fangames never had a team but for as large as this project was, they should have never pitched this game as a derivative work. We gotta remember that FNAF wasn't known for its revolutionary gameplay, but rather the concept and characters the game presented. If I was Scott and had to manage and produce the funding for multiple projects and make sure I could do so profitably, I could see why he'd be skeptical of a game several times more expensive without the proven marketability.
I don't fault the devs at all for putting their best into their game, but I don't think they put a lot of business sense into the planning on their end. They were fans who outgrew themselves and weren't the right fit for what Scott wanted. On Scott's side, I think he stretched himself thin and didn't make his intentions fully clear when making the Fanverse Initiative and is learning as he goes. He was known as that humble little game dev in the same position as us, but he's now a multi-millionaire businessman who has to act like one if he wants to keep it that way. Fans may have a certain perception of him that will leave us disappointed in reality. Like Scott himself, keep your best interests in mind.
I actually agree with this a lot, thanks for sharing
Scott is at fault.
@@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051 I don't agree with that. Aftonbuilt looks simultaneously generic, and also different from the FNAF formula to the point where I wouldn't really have confidence in it. Seeing it, to me it looks like some other free roam FNAF fangame with contrived mechanics that is also different enough from FNAF proper that it can't get by on the IP alone.
@@Kjf365
Of course that is the opinion of somebody who worships the very ground Scott walks through.
@@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051 Sounds like you want to do the opposite. To spit on anything he touches. Reeks of troll.
despite my massive respect for Scott, this failure is entirely on him, this genuinely I feel was a mistake on his part.
I understand he was dealing with and going through a lot at the time, but waiting for weeks at a time for a response from him and to be rejected despite putting 2 years into this game is just sad.
Yes, I understand that hard work will not and does not equal guaranteed success or approval, but I feel like Scott was just being a dick during this situation.
Absolutely. Scott dropped the ball and was slimy during negotiations
Honestly, I can't brush the feeling this video isn't giving him a fair shake.
@@ShatteredGlassUnicron I mean the Thing is we don't know Scott's Side of the Story. I'm sure he had his Reasons as well, but without knowing them it's rather hard to see him in a Good Light in all of this.
@@ShatteredGlassUnicron especially with the special thanks in the description with the added “make Scott regret his decision;D” it is completely one sided and is written with an insane amount of bias.
@@giornogiovanna8367 I hope we get it soon. This whole situation feels rather uncharitable towards him without it.
Not to be an asshole, but as someone with a bit of experience with the industry, and quite a few friends with a lot of experience, this was honestly better than how most publishers go about things. I'm sorry, but publishers aren't going to throw much money at you with a rough prototype and sketches, even if you're a well known studio. Networking is the only way to bypass that sort of thing. You could always make something yourself. If you're dealing with someone else's ip and money, you have to bend over. The only reason they had this opportunity was because they were previously established and able to have that opportunity. Here's the best thing to do: Make your prototype ip-less, nothing technically connected to whatever ip you wanted to use. If you do end up wanting to get published and use whatever ip, showing them the prototype and then explaining how it can be used for that ip is the best option. You still have that ip-less prototype that can be built upon if you are truly passionate about the project so far.
Very good advice.
Damn, it's almost like the game development industry is an inhumane mess that needs better ethical standards
@@Pihsrosnec This is the one thing that doesn't really apply to. If you write a book based on another IP, and then are angry that the IP holder doesn't agree with your vision, you don't get to publish it. Make your own thing first, you'll be surprised how many games in known series start out like that.
@@DioBrando-mr5xs that's not the part I'm referring to, I'm more referring to the having a team work on a demo for over a year without pay in the hopes of getting a contract
@@Pihsrosnec you simply shouldn't throw everything you have to one casket though, that's a very big problem and it seems like dev team didn't think that.
honestly, i really like how you present your info in your videos. it feels like you've done this before, and actually have an idea of what you are doing. from my experience watching your videos it feels like i'm actually watching a reporter/journalist and it's really well done. you are doing amazing and i can't wait to see more content from you.
(just want to make sure you see this sorry for posting it twice)
I understand why Scott refused the game, it's a big project and very different concept from what we"re used to, the game was a risk Scott wasn't willing to take.
Thankfully he didn't reject FNAF Plus
my man why did he not reject security breach or help wanted? nah man its because he didn't think that like 10 developers could polish a game of that size, especially after seeing how many mechanics they've added.
They were official fnaf games
@@nomus1172 security breach is a pretty good game it's just over ambitious I feel that if the fans weren't so rude on Twitter it might have actually been good
I think it was more of it being so far removed from the FNAF series that is why he ultimately didn't accept it.
Crazy to hear that this sounds pretty similar to Security Breach
not the people hitting for scott in the notes
"he has a life you can't expect him to be able to communicate and follow through," if he didn't have the time to actually treat the developers he offered to hire humanely then he shouldn't have started the project.
To Scott's credit, it _does_ look like he recognized the communication issues and got Clickteam's management involved, which everyone said was way better. I don't get the impression that Scott was doing anything _malicious_ here; it seems like one of those situations where the planets just never quite aligned.
Go watch Ambience's video about this drama, he explains everything pretty well.
Fnaf fan game devs don’t get into controversy for 5 seconds challenge:
99% fail.
Did you forget the fine nights at flumpty dev
(IMPOSSIBLE) (GONE SEXUAL) (THE FNAR GANG CAME TO MY HOUSE IRL)
What does fnar mean
@@okwow46 typo
Pretty unfortunate news for FNAF nowadays. I don't think Scott's indie business model has scaled well. If I were him I would make "FNAF LLC" and appoint managers for every aspect of the franchise so I could focus on writing lore and reaching out to fans properly like the good old days.
I would love to see a video on on "The Return to Freddy's" fangame saga and the crazy drama surrounding it. Perhaps even snag an interview with the creator?
ooh yea i would absolutely love a trtf video. i was actually a fan of those games awhile back and i would love to see this guy covering it. i'll be even more happy if he somehow manages to get an interview with tyler
It's so weird that Scott complained about the lack of originality, when his Fanverse is literally for fan games that are directly based on FNAF. Not only that, but TJOC, which is already a part of it, mainly focuses on Scott's characters, and FNAF Plus, also part of it, is supposed to be a remake of the first game.
Tjoc is pretty though you gotta admit that.
Bro clearly hasn’t played TJOC before 💀
@@ThomasTaylor258 ?
I know they are supposed to be spirits impersonating Scott's characters to torment him and his family and feed off his creativity, but their designs are literally based on the original FNAF characters. TJOC was just unique in its gameplay, not the character designs. How can Scott complain about the lack of originality when Aftonbuilt also had a unique approach to gameplay instead of designs?
5:20
this is EXACTLY what I wanted to hear,
I would prefer it if Scott would be a shadow writer to the fnaf series but like steel wool handle all the heavy lifting so he's not the main face anymore
I believe one of the possible problems was the fact most fanverse games are very easy to convert to mobile and console it is probably a thing at Scott doesn’t want anything too ambitious or big for the fanverse he just wanted some games he could mass port with the possibility of porting the pre existing games of that fan series to other platforms and there are of course other things at most likely caused Scott to change his mind so often on a fanverse project like aftonbuilt such as security breach being a over ambitious buggy mess and the fact at Scott has most of the fnaf fanverse games being point and clicks from the early days of fnaf I believe he isn’t comfortable with having very very high ambition free roam 3d games think of it like this Scott has had all his 3d projects handled by steelwool so do you think he himself would want to go with a very ambitious and possibly high price to make type of fangame while the other games are only like 3.99
Here's my thoughts on the whole situation:
Liam should have never made Aftonbuild for anyone but himself. Making his whole passion project rely on the hands of Scott instead of just doing it for the love of making the game can end in a whole lot of effort and time going to waste cause, at the end of the day, it all depends on whether Scott is in on it or not. Liam thought that this was the equivalent of pitching a movie to a big studio when, really, its more like a collab between well known game developers to do something bigger (Not saying Liam's work is not well known, just that he didnt really know what the nature of the Fanverse is). I think this comes as well due due to Liam's recent circumstances ( being kicked out of his home and needing money) that he and his team put so much crunch on just this demo, as it seems he was hoping to make a living out of the fanverse.
I can only guess why Scott rejected Aftonbuild after two years but I dont really blame him for all of this. Yeah, he should have answered Liam's emails sooner, of course, but, looking at all the stuff Scott has on his hands, it makes more sense why he didn't answer: He has a family with a wife and ( I believe) six children, He and his whole family were doxxed during the drama last year forcing him to leave the internet, he has to deal with the failure of Security Breach (an ambicious free-roeaming fnaf game like AftonBuild remind you) , He's pumpimg money into the fanverse which has given him 0 profits and even more drama, he's still writing books and he is the sole owner of all the creative rights to FNAF and I dont think he's giving them away anytime soon after SB. With all of this on his plate, no wonder he takes forever to communicate with other Devs, he's basically a one-man company.
And as for the Fanverse itself, I think a lot of people have this idea that the Fanverse is like this "Shark Tank" for game devs to kickstart their carrers. I don't think thats the case. The Fanverse was, and still is, Scott's way of saying "thank you" to the community, it was never meant to be anything more than that. He took some well known fan game developers, gave them the rights to make money out of their work, and money to make their games come true,that is it. There where some vague hopes that the Fanverse would have a second round, but due to the way the fanverse was conceived as, I wouldn't be suprised if it shuts down after the last fanverse member puts out his game. The fanverse is just a collab between a group of well known devs and Scott to make their games and some merch, it wasn´t meant to be some kind of steam greenlight for fnaf fan games. I get that the idea of the fanverse is cool and most of us would love to see our favorite nonverse fangame in the intitative, but that is just wishing for the intiative to be something it isn't.
Overall, this whole mess is just one big tragedy in the end. A team of devs, driven by the hope that they can make a living out of their fangame and not out of just wanting to make their own path, make a pretty cool game but are ultimately rejected by Scott who has too much shit to deal with to give money to an ambicious project and because of the nature of the fanverse. Leading to a whole lot of effort and time wasted. I don't blame any party in this, this was just a disaster cause by various circumstances.
The lesson that I take from this whole thing is that, if you really want to make something big and pasionate, do it for you and not for the sake of others. Thats how most popular fangames started, and where they are now.
this is so well written and summed up practically everything I'd been thinking over since watching this video and reading the comments others left.
this all just felt like a train wreck waiting to happen. it's impossible to pick a side, because both sides had 100% valid excuses for what happened. it's difficult to pick out a true "bad guy" in this scenario.
This situation would totally go on the "creators doing collaborations with the fans gone wrong" section, which is why I have some issues with the probably too optimistic "hire the fans" phrase
Scott wasn't doxxed. He voluntarily entered it into a public database. That is the exact opposite of doxxing.
@@ravenfrancis1476 Dunno, most articles and even Scott's wiki page say he was doxxed. There were also screenshots of his addres going around during the drama but dunno if that is doxxing or not.
@@fredrick8958 doxxing is when you take previously unknown information about a person and release it on the internet. In a “traditional” sense in order for it to be a “true” doxxing, the information has to be well hidden. I would still count releasing even public information if most people never knew about it though, but that’s mostly a personal opinion.
Honestly if Aftonbuilt was reworked and rewritten to be a semi-original story this could possibly come back to life. I've already got a few concepts of a story I just wish this game could still happen, but the contracts seem like it wouldn't be possible.
Scott's in his rights to reject a fangame he personally doesn't vibe with, I get that. What I can't agree with at all is that this project was made by people in the very same position Scott once was: making something they wanted to, despite the financial issues involved, and yet Scott didn't help them recover. The premise of him extending an olive branch towards fellow inspiring indie devs is a good one, I just can't get over what I can only see from this event as either a case of horrible hypocrisy or ignorance. Scott, I love you man, but come on.
Here's hoping the devs can lean further into the unique aspects of this game and make their much-deserved financial returns from their work. Honestly if they needed some help with monster design I'd be stoked to work with them.
And yet, Security Breach received horribly by Fnaf fans.
Not to mention game was overly ambitious like Security Breach.
@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439 if u can actually prove that u can make something substancial out of ur ambitions i wouldnt call it overly ambitious mate
@@siduxjxhdgzhdjxhxuuxxyhgg1079 ???huh???
Look, it sucks that their game got rejected while they worked on it but there is more going on than a lot of people realize.
Outside of lore and gameplay, there are bugs, tutorial, controls, porting etc. When it comes to the fanverse games.
There is a huge difference between a game made with Clickteam and Unreal Engine (or similar game engines)
Most of the Clickteam (or hell, even games made with Blender) not gonna end up on a big scale like this.
Not to mention, they are throwing slanders around to Scott with no actual proof from their sides.
@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439 "throwing slanders around" sounds like u tryna excuse the whole thing but suuuure
@@siduxjxhdgzhdjxhxuuxxyhgg1079 what excuse? Fact that not every fan game can take part in Fanverse of something else?
I give here something with a source but all you are saying is "SoUnDs LiKe YoU'rE tRyInG tO fInD eXcUsE tHe SiTuAtIoN"
Wow dude, you destroyed my argument just like that, good job.
Imma be real, if they just reskin the game they totally would have a successful game from what it seems, they should try to give it a go, I know I'd be interested especially with the unique gameplay it seems to offer.
You guys NEED to look at the bigger picture.
On one side, Scott is an incredibly busy man with a shit ton of things to manage (like the film, talking to game developers (steelwool for example), book writers and publishers, merchandising companies, artists, and much more), who also has a relatively big family, so, as much as it sucks, it's completely NORMAL for him to answer after weeks.
Another thing is that the refusal of Aftonbuilt doesn't mean he's doing the fanverse initiative only for merchandising purposes and money. Thinking a game as ambitious (which isn't always a bad thing, I believe this game would have made it) as this one was too big of a risk for both parties doesn't mean he only cared for the money. We have seen him give it away multiple times in various streams for charity.
On the other side, I believe hooking the game devs up with a team dedicated to replying and coordinating fanverse entries from the get go would have helped greatly.
Aftonbuilt is an incredible game from the gameplay I've seen and I can tell how much passion was put into it, and I hate the thought of this being the end. I hope there can be something done to get the project going again, and I sincerely hope this won't be the last we see of it.
Hopefully everyone's doing okay.
Couldent have said it better myself
Also the merchandising thing is poo because I see 0 merch for the fanveres stuff
My husband has every school in the county as his clientele, he answers emails within one business day. My father is a district attorney, he answers emails and calls within one business week on a scale of importance. I get at least 40 messages split between phone and email, and find the time to respond, even when I was homeless. You find time when it is your job. You don't go into a professional environment with this kind of attitude and not get reprimanded for it.
still Unprofessional, end of communication
@@appalachiabrauchfrau yeah but Scott isint your family members you can't compare them he's not perfect
@@appalachiabrauchfrau thank god someone with a good work ethic can call scott out on his unethic behaver.
Damn, Where can I support them? They clearly deserve better than this
You actually cant they are legally bound to scott . I also wont buy any fnaf official products only fan made . Scott doesnt deserve it
@@asummersquash any fan made project that is making the creator money without the IP owner’s consent is illegal and can be shut down. What the creators can do is scrub the game of any affiliation with fnaf and change the models that look a bit to simaler to fnaf characters. Change the story a tad bit like instead of afton its a spirit who wants to help the others move on or just anything thats not fnaf
Thing is a lot of people forget that scott is only one man, and this franchise is his baby. He's mentioned before how he made FNAF just to get something to put out to try and make a little money. Now it's a household name. So he's very protective of it. As seen when he shot down just about every single FNAF movie concept because they weren't what he envisioned. Which I think goes to show it's not all down to greed like people like to claim. If it was, he'd have any shitty movie pushed out the door, because kids will see anything.
The issue with that though, is that he's just one man, who, with the fanverse idea, put the pressure of moderating THOUSANDS of people on his own shoulders, because he can't trust a publisher to not mess up the franchise too bad. So yeah, no shit it's gonna take him weeks to respond, he has to get back to the other hundreds of WIP fangames and playtest them and make the big decision on if this is something that's good enough to stand alongside a blockbuster series.
And it'll sound rough, but it's a bad idea to rely so hard on other people, especially ones you don't really know, like the aftonbuilt devs did with scott. ESPECIALLY for something as important as running yourself into what essentially amounts to effort debt because you're expecting to get paid. For all you know scott is going to just reject your game outright, and all that effort will have been for naught. If he's not being very communicative, don't rely on him. Split from the fanverse idea, make original characters, and try crowdfunding or something. Because turning up to a guy with 500 forms on his desk and putting yours there thinking "Oh boy I sure hope he pays attention to mine, I've worked myself to the bone!" is a quick way to get disappointed.
Thinking about it security breach was affected by over ambition so it's understandable that Scott is not trusting of a project that's too ambitious.
Elden ring was ambitious and I still got it done. Are you also going to say STALKER 2 is over ambitious because it has a small developer team. Dude that's how Counter-Strike was made and team fortress. You'd be amazed by what a couple dudes in a basement could make. Show some love to STALKER 2 devs because well you know. If you don't I would recommend looking up STALKER 2 and where their game company is located.
@@chickencheese6682 That was not my point tho...
@@lucyditee exactly so why should that make ambition the problem not rushing things the problem.
@@the_fenix_3247 I'm going to correct you security breach was not affected by ambition it was affected by time crunches and rushing things just like battlefield 2042 and fallout 76. Eventually fallout 76 became a decent game but that's because it took time. I don't think this game has that.
@@chickencheese6682 In the interview they said how they kept spending the game and as we see exploring the game files we know they cut some stuff out, so while yes the stuff you say is most likely true I believe that over ambition is also a factor on how security breach ended up as it is now.
But my comment was not what you or I believed what happened to security breach, it was on an assumption that if Scott saw Security breach problems in it's over ambition then I could guess that it can be a reason why he wouldn't accept this fan game.
8:31 They most likely signed it since it was permission to use FNAF characters in a game, even if it is non-profit. Pretty much preventing their project from being taken down for copyright as long as they followed the terms. It doesn't really imply any money was provided. It could've been, but there's no indication of it just because they signed one contract saying they could keep working on it.
This really saddens me, I was so excited with Aftonbuilt. I loved playing it so much. It sucks that they struggled with 2 years with getting them into the fanverse.
I am friends with one of the developers in Jelatine who was working on this project. It's been pretty saddening seeing the depressive state they've fallen into since the cancelation, and I've been trying to help however I can. (He also linked me this video.)
I hope they keep the concept and make their own game, when I saw that the parts for confronting and breaking animatronics where mostly just cutscenes in sb I was dissapointed. they have a really good concept going, as for how? idk, maybe protag's friend brought em a broken robot, they discussed where to find parts and they decided to loot abandoned animatronic burger joint Milly's (the fox, crow whatever animal) playbarn(or whatever place ya want) they really do have too good a concept to let fall to the aether.
I really hope they can recover from this, literally no one is thinking about their state rn imagine if they'll ever be willing to make another game after this real life nightmare??
@@aikesscs Liam (the leader of jelatine) is actively trying to distance himself from game development after this. It's pretty bad.
@@noodleman4555 so we will be end up losing 3 of the best devs the fnaf community ever had, Nickson, Phis and now Liam too...hope the haters are of proud of themselves...
Security Breach really did single handedly doom the franchise
Stop exaggerating
fr
@@rougestarlight4308 the main reason was bc it would make security breach worse and tbh a lot of players would think that "this is the security breach we deserved"
@Lifty this isn't the full ass game lmfao, this is mostly the demo that was shown to scott and that's why it's buggy as fuck and not complete at all, most of things were subject to change
@@dakkkkvo this is the security breach we deserved
As someone who’s been through it before, it really does suck when you think your idol can help you out only to be shot down, but at least it wasn’t as brutally as “my idol personally hates my guts and would probably beat me up if they saw me”. Still sucks to hear it happen, especially with a promising game like this.
I’ve seen people hate it for looking like half life or having mechanics that make no sense but aside from being realistic when dealing with animatronics (they don’t immediately game end you but can hurt you) it has the amazing idea of using all sorts of gizmos and gadgets to sort out the animatronic, which I don’t think any game has ever done before and I love it. It’s like each level is a giant puzzle that has many ways to solve it
The whole situation is very sad, wish it didn’t happen like this.
It's hard to tell what Scott what was thinking at the time, we can assume he was evil or had alterior motives, but I think the biggest thing that we should take is that it was an attempt, but an unsuccessful one.
Unfortunate for the developers, I truly think it would've become an amazing game under the Fanverse, but I also think we shouldn't attack or belittle Scott over this. I wish the best for the future of the developers
Unless Scott decides to pursue legal action, no NDA has been broken. Nobody knows how Liam's NDA looked like, so nobody can prove he broke one. And Since Scott didn't do anything still, it's safe to assume Liam didn't do anything.
here's what i think: scott's just one guy. i know he probably wants to make sure no one does something weird with the franchise behind his back, because this series is his baby, it's what allows him to pay rent and feed his family, it changed his life.
...but he really needs more people that have close to the amount of power that he has, or even people with equal amounts of power
so that a group, with scott included, could reach more and more people, and they could all talk to decide what they should do next, kind of like a council
scott juggling all of this by himself is great but at the same time it's hard for him to do so much at the same time
This game is ambitious, but bit a wrong way - unlike other fan-verse games, Aftonbuilt squeezes itself directly in FNAF timeline and continuity and bases itself so heavily around one of the main FNAF characters and villains.
Let’s be honest, if it would’ve released and especially with Scott’s approval, how many fans would’ve count it canon-complaint franchise entry?
I feel that Scott would’ve greenlighted this game just fine if it was not about Afton, in FNAF timeline continuity. Sure, I feel bad for devs because Scott’s approach is kinda clumsy, but I see why Scott asked them to be more original and it’s not connected to merch - you just can’t go and create what can be canonical franchise entry with franchise creator approval but based only on your characters and canon’s vision. And Scott has his right not to share info about lore and character development aspects critical to HIS story to some fan-devs.
FNAF PLUS: *Cries in being forgotten*
I mean that's not the issue popgoes takes place after fnaf 3
People would just dismiss it as non cannon
@@spookson5679 Popgoes and Candy’s related to FNAF by shared universe and timeline, indeed, but they have their own set of main characters and their own plots going own. None of them are using Afton as basically their protagonist.
@@Corvus7 Sorry dude, but I don’t really see Afton as the reason for the rejection. And canonicity isn’t a good reason either.
FNAF plus is a remake of FNAF 1, that would certainly confuse more people than a side story like this game. The books are also another thing, they are official but only semi-canon (from what I remember), and that’s way more confusing than this.
So canonicity doesn’t really sound like a good reason to me. For Afton, he is just 1 part of FNAF. An important part, but still just 1 part. He isn’t the face of the franchise like Freddy, so why exclude him? We don’t even know what truly he looks outside of his appearances as a corpse or in 8 bit.
But that’s just my opinion.
@@disgrunty6057 Plus is not gonna add anything into FNAF continuity. It’s the same game lore-wise. As far as we know it’s just basically “FNAF 1 next gen” and many people still thinks it is made by Scott and is not a fan-game.
Aftonbuild though uses FNAF characters and timeline to create new story that seems to be canon complaint to original FNAF entries, which makes this much more confusing and lore-restrictive.
I’m sure studio would’ve have less troubles if they used all this stuff for some original animatronic franchise, that is vaguely connected with FNAF, as FNAC did.
I saw Markiplier play the game, and it's amazing I love the idea of it and would have love to see more. Although, I agree that Scott has a big plate and it's hard to run that big of a franchise, so everyone has their own opinion. But the game "Afton Built" really could have made it in, i personally love it. I do feel extremely sorry for all the problems the developers had to go through while making this game.
convenient, as i see this comment markiplier's video of it is right next to it.,
I think the best description of Scott at this point is that he can be your friend. But he's also a business man at his core.
As a major Scott Cawthon supporter the news is really dissapointing. Like its ovbious Communication was the main issue. But he did just mess about with the Aftonbuilt devs at the end of the day.
Of course _Aftonbuilt_ wasn't going to be Scott's priority. Scott is just a dude running a huge media franchise. For a long time there has been this small-but-visible cult of personality around Scott, where people act like he can do no wrong. He's only human. There are cool things about him and he has flaws.
@@theftking thats a very good point.
I see and understand the problems that the devs had, but the demo doesnt really have to be that detailed, the concept has to be strong, but you are digging your own grave by improving more on the mechanics and the quality of the textures, never overdue your draft, because thats what a draft is
The scummy thing about this was the lack of communication and infrequent communication
It seems mostly like a series of unfortunate events is what put this endeavor in the ground.
Ramping anxieties, from being cancelled, to Security Breach, and so Scott's willingness to take risks just took a nosedive, not to mention how badly it interrupted the communications.
Had things been a bit better, I'm sure the communication would have been quite a bit better and any concerns would have been squashed earlier, and less effort would have been put into a project that ultimately wasn't picked up (Assuming things still went the same way)
Really the core bad guy here seems to be the lack of communication, too much time and effort spent in the dark, which rightfully left a sour taste in the devs mouths.
It does come with good lesson, however, that an idea should be an idea, more than a full scale game project.
If ideas didn't turn into projects we'd not have 80% of the things available right now
This.
A lot happened to Scott those months, dude got cancelled just because he gave money to someone he thought could run the country better, doesn't mean he goes with ALL of their views. twitter b twitter yk
Then Security Breach happened, the first "First-Person Ambitious FNAF game!" released and was horrible.
I think what happened is Scott was 100% willing to fund the idea, but once stuff got turbulent he got startled and started to renegotiate with his thoughts. Then Security Breach launched and that made him know he was not going to fund this because what if it turns into another problem game?
Nobody is in the wrong, but it's a series of mishap that caused this.
For a franchise owner, this is a very s****y job, but that’s just it, Scott Cawthon isn’t really cut out to be a franchise owner, he has a family and his own personal life, he seemed to have worked better as just a creator only having to worry about lore and gameplay rather than owning and running a whole franchise with merch and contracts and legal issues, i feel like it’s good to remember that this isn’t a massive board of directors trying to stay cheap, this is one person in lots of trouble with fans trying to both calm his life down and still remain a part of the game world he made
I agree. I hope we get news in the near future that Scott _has_ hired like some kinda team to help him with this on a permanent basis. Beyond just Clickteam.
at this point they should just turn it into a completely original game, it looks really interesting
Sadly they don't have the budget to continue, nor the motivation to do so without the project being the FNAF IP.
For as much effort as the author may have put into this... it definitely doesn't feel like a FNAF game
doesn't excuse scott for taking it so damn long to answer these guys tho
also, as a fellow indie devs, I must say... the Aftonbuilt's team strategy was quite bad, as you *rarely* ever need something beyond an MVP-style prototype in order to know whether your game's concept is good enough or not. No matter how much glitter and polish you throw at it, if it's not a good concept (for the matter), it'll never get to be this way.
i really hope scott realises how good of a game it is and lets it into the fanverse as i want to see more of this game and others like it
doubt it
@@materuxermer4919 no
I'm sorry that the developers weren't able to get that opportunity but I really don't think it's such a terrible thing as people make it out to be. Sure Scott shouldn't have made them wait for an answer (Scott needed to communicate clearly and he just didn't) but it's poor practice to base your whole game on the approval of some foreign entity. If you shoot for the stars don't be surprised when you miss it. Who knows why it got rejected it: maybe he thought it was too ambitious, maybe he thought the characters were too tied into the original story, idk.
The point of it all is that they don't need Scott to produce a successful game and Scott is under no obligation to extend his hand to them. Look at how much popularity they have right now with all the people talking about them, if they wanted they could still release the game and I promise you they would still have a large following. They do cool work and people are interested - could probably Branch into a non-fnaf project if they wanted. point of the matter is they still have eyes on them and would probably have a successful Kickstarter if they ran one (they would have to alter their game for copyright reasons I believe, but this is doable. Look at how 'fighting is magic' turned into 'them's fighting herds')
You don't need Scott, sure it's nice and helpful to have the big man on your side. But if you really want to do it then don't let that take you down you're good developers. You can probably even do better work when working under your own prerogative. See this as an opportunity - one door closes and another opens.
And for Scott I really think the poor guy gets a lot worse than he deserves. Dudes out here offering money for something that he has no obligation or benefit for doing and he gets trashed on for basically anything. True he shouldn't have responded so late, but honestly this whole fanverse has been more hassle than it's worth - considering what has happened with some devs. Idk, just maybe try to empathize with both sides?
I think we can all agree that Scott should have had better communication with the devs.
@@kingofcrap4414 Tbf, he has a lot on his plate already. So it makes sense he couldn’t reply in a timely manner.
@@Dr.Oofers then he should have not announced the fan verse then if he can't put his entire attention on it there's no point of it existing. At this point it should go on hiatus until things on his plate clear up.
Dam, haven't been around the fnaf community in a while, and I think I found the perfect channel to catch up on. Good stuff!
Guys....it took two years to produce this 40 minute "sort of" demo. Think about this. The dev was promising all of these other elements and modes and 3,000+ possible gameplay combinations on top. The reason why Scott didn't approve this is because he'd be paying a group of people for YEARS for something that for all he knows might not come out given it's clearly above the scope of what this team should be working on.
On the topic of Scott's communication, he announced the initiative making it openly clear that the point of the fanverse initiative is for him to be as hands off and not involved as humanly possible. Not to get stuck for five years in limbo having back and forths with the fan team. The Aftonbuilt situation is literally the exact thing he's trying to avoid, and you would too. Liam's rant at the very start of the video on what you need to consider before trying to become a part of the fanverse only had one truth out of a bunch of nonsense. "Try not to overdo it on the game itself." If aftonbuilt with its ambitious design was presented to Scott in a near finished state, he would have taken it on. Show him "I made this demo in two years and I want you to pay me for god knows how many more years until this full featured thing maybe comes out" and of course he's gonna hop out. Before you turn this into some dev vs dev flamewar, just step back and think about this business decision logically.
Presenting an almost finished game makes close to sense when you account for the fact that Scott asked Liam to design a new game altogether. I agree with pretty much everything else you said though
@@cococop6679 yeah i don’t know the full timeline of what went down, but i do know that if i was Scott and you approached me saying “this pitch demo took me two years”…well hell i think everybody would pass on that, not just me. Aftonbuilt doesn’t have the team it needs to get out in a reasonable time and i think that’s the real key takeaway from this situation. i’m convinced you can pitch an incredibly ambitious fanverse title and get accepted as long as you’ve proven you can actually do the job without bleeding Scott forever. too many people focusing on the wrong things, blaming security breach for being ambitious. it has nothing to do with SB or anything besides common business sense
No no no no no, they gave him demos those demos weren't "Good" enough or enough of what he wanted. He took a YEAR just to sign an Non disclosure agreement.
@@ahorserunning Average indie game development period is 5 years. Average Pro\AAA game development is at least 8.
A playable demo that looks good\promising and was produced in less than 2 years(accounting that he almost took a year to respond and sort out the kind of contract he wanted to offer), with NO budget and a small team of people that worked on it in their free time, with a clear and achievable objective, would literally make ANY game producer VERY happy.
It shows that you're dedicated to the project, have a good work flow, good dev pipeline and can manage your team well.
Like I get most of y'all are ignorant about developing games and want to protect your favourite millionaire developer at all costs, but at least educate yourself a little?
@@DeadKraken Trying to make up some overall average length of game development time doesn't even make sense here. Game development varies wildly depending on the project. There have been many massive triple A series that have come out at annual and bi-annual basis all the time, not 8 years(ie, you think the average length for triple A is the 8 year development hell Cyberpunk 2077 went through to come out. One of the most legendarily memed on releases for its infinite delays in games history this side of duke nukem. That's the average according to you. Longer than an entire console generation's lifespan). There are indie games that get developed solo in the span of a single weekend, let alone 5 years(FNAF for example had 4-5 full game releases in the span of time it took to make this demo/pitch for a fan game). This is a completely pointless strawman, and I'm not even sure why you felt the need to pull these pointless 'averages' out of your ass in the first place. We need to look at the concept, overall scope, the team size and skill, and the progress made for projects on an individual basis.
The objective of developing this game did not feel achievable in a reasonable amount of time with this team in my opinion. Clearly, given the entire subject of this video, this would not make any game producer very happy. Dropping the game because it didn't make it into the initiative does not show any dedication to the project. Two years for a concept pitch is not good workflow. And over promising on future game features and other endless possibilities when you're still at level 1 pitch phase is not exactly great pipeline(see Security Breach). Drop the shade that everybody else is ignorant to games development or that it's all some childish white knighting for Scott, you're being ridiculous.
People tend to forget where Scott came from, all his games being failures and being clowned on before fnaf. Any slight slip up and everyone in the fanbase falls apart and the backlash is off the charts. Ever since fnaf 4 I feel Scott has been very wary of what he invests time into and what he wants surrounded around his series. Cause at the end of the day, no one's gonna see it from his perspective, the internet these days is too childish and blinded. . . Too quick to rage and slander.
It's still incredibly scummy to drag them along like that, game development ain't easy, And a game like this I imagine was incredibly difficult, so Scott dragging them along without any pay is non-excusable
@@altenby8462 he did pay them
Scott when making awful games: I didn't hear no bell
This team: *insert George crying*
scott who was taking a long time to respond was probably responding to alot of other people checking alot of other work ect. EDIT: this might've seemed very cruel of scott and it was cruel but you can't just invite 100 people over to a party when there is only enough food for 20
Yeah, most likely he was busy with other stuff and didn't have enough time to respond to the devs probably.
@@Leon-lt3in Be decent enough to send an email saying that you are really busy and that you would respond as soon as you can at least. Not 2 to 4 weeks of silence. That's just unprofessional.
@@TheRealAlexFlame I wouldn't be suprised if he forgot to write the email or he had soo much emails that, that specific message got pilled up under other emails.
@@rafsandomierz5313 hire a manager then, idk why people defend scort this much when there is literally a simple solution of getting a team handle your shit if you're busy
tbh Scotts whole life was ruined just because of him having an opinion, he most likely wasn't in the right mind set just because he declined a game that was hardly a FNAF game doesn't mean he is some greedy person
W
I think the two main things that killed this was that FNAF shifted towards appealing to children to sell more merch and appeal to a more profitible demographic, and this game would've clearly overshadowed Security Breach if it got actual funding to staff a larger team. If only Jelatine just created their own IP with what they had when Scott was initially unresponsive. It would've been pretty funny if Jelatine appealed to the old FNAF base, that wants the horror aspect to come back, so FNAF could continue down the kid-friendly corporate facade the FNAF universe used to mock so much.
The sad part as well isn't necessarily the whole Scott Debacle for me. I just find the work they put in to have gone to waste because as its own thing with story changes and stuff, Afton Built would be a very incredible title on its own. I don't enjoy the conception of the fanverse to be as specifically targeted to merch sales, even though I do understand a want for a quick buck. I can't exactly promise I wouldn't make rash decisions or not answer important calls or reject good ideas because I know I am not the budgeting type and am also just a mess of a person. I can't fully gauge how difficult making a game truly is, nor how hard it would be to budget or retain contact, or any of the financial chaos and lack of communication presented in this case study of sorts. I can't do better, but I can at least tell the product they were working on was actually promising and it is sad to see them struggle for basically token compensation. I am sorry for the crew who worked so hard for naut, and hope if they do manage to try and make a game, they can bounce back and show their best hopefully without such specific strings attached.
They could essentially just re write the story and replace any FNAF assets to make it it's own thing. This would allow them to set up crowd funding. It is up to them though if they wish to go through with this. It would still take a heap of work.
I love your wolf character! It’s so cute.
To give credit where credit is due, I definitely see how Scott could have seen this as another Security Breach situation and shut it down because he thought it would fall apart. And in all honesty, I'm with him on this one. The project looks cool but it's just too ambitious for a fan game. Scott reached out looking for a final nights sort of experience, or at least something like that. He didn't want a game too big for it's clothes, which is pretty much what he got. And once again, it IS his decision.
Thank you for using your brain and not your heart
@@itsreverse445 so is Scott fanbase heartless lmao
Tbh I really don’t see how Scott did anything wrong?
Like I 100% empathize with the Aftonbuilt team’s frustrations, but I think they’re only seeing it from their own perspective.
For a busy dude like Scott, who has a family and a business and tons of other stuff to take care of, to get back to them at all, let alone only in a few weeks is not that crazy. He was in the midst of helping with Security Breach, dealing with controversy, handling all the other games in the fanverse- he sorta had a lot going on.
I think both sides had different ideas about what this was supposed to be. Scott just wanted them to make a simple fan game, but they wanted to make something bigger. I don’t blame them for being disappointed in how things went, and I do think Scott should learn to have a few people he trusts take over with correspondence instead of trying to do _everything_ himself, but it really is what it is.
There’s nothing stopping the dev’s from retooling Aftonbuilt into its own original game completely divorced from FNAF, then they can safely crowdfund it and not worry about all the stress they went through before.
This is why I think applying to the fanverse is risky, for one, by applying to the fanverse and sharing it to Scott, it makes it technically Scott's property. And two, if you get rejected, well... It's practically done for you.
If you really wanted to get your game going and maybe sell it, then you either have to be trusted by Scott so much, he will literally invite you to the fanverse, although unlikely it could happen. Or, if you are rich enough, you can fund it and sell it on your own, and maybe you can also sell merch too (this can only happen if you don't use Scott's copyrighted material, unless they can agree on a deal, which is unlikely).
Also, let's not forget that practically, fanverse is for already existing big and well known fan games (except Fnaf+ but you get what I'm trying to say here). So, I don't think "applying" would really work.
Why do I feel like scott is a complete chad that just does not care about basically anything
I wouldn't consider him doing this an very Chad move
Fantastic video! :-) You just got a sub from me.
The only thing my gut feels like
I can fully put fault on Scott for is the time it took between e-mails. I believe it should have been clear to Scott that this was not going to be a game he would not want to sign off on and that, instead of two years of waiting and working, it could have taken placed all within a month or two.
It sucks Scott won't even allow fans to self fund the game either, I would TOTALLY buy merch made specifically of Aftonbuilt.
TShirts with the unique designs like foxy or that rebuilt chica.
Coffee Mugs, etc.
I don't even know what videos you make but I subbed after what a good essay you have from this video great work
This really pissed me off, Scott really did not handle this situation well.
Honestly, he could've handled it better.
there was two choices
approve or reject
there is no other way to handle it
Theres is no other way to handle it, the most you can do is be gentle while rejecting a project
I disargee, The project is far too ambitious which could cause problems and most likely will cost more to produce then any other of the games being made.
@@_xymi There was a lot of choices.
1) Being more communicative.
2) Putting positive reinforcement about what he wanted for the fanverse and giving clear goals.
3) Not having the entire team developing a grueling technical demo to convince him of their project
4) Not changing up payment terms out of nowhere.
And probably more I'm just not thinking of. Narrowing the situation down to just "two choices" is not correct. I'm not mad he denied it, I'm just disappointed at the mismanagement and disarray. I'm not gonna suck his cock because he's the dev of one of my favorite game series. He's done dumb shit before, and this does not sound at all implausible to what I've learned about him over the years.
I've been surfing around every Aftonbuilt video I can find recently, because A.) I love the developers, as Final Nights are my favorite fangames, and B.) Aftonbuilt is obviously incredible. But this new information just makes me really sad. Scott demonstrated incredible unprofessionalism, borderline "artists working for exposure," and yes while he still ultimately has the right as the funder to not support the project if he doesn't feel it's a worthwhile investment, that doesn't excuse that Liam and Jelatine poured so much effort into this game and they more than deserved to be compensated. If Scott wanted a simple, marketable game, I don't see why he didn't just take Liam's initial offer of simply remastering the Final Nights series, as there's more than enough iconic animatronics there from the Burnts, to the Reapers, just to name a few. It's good they retain the right to keep working on Aftonbuilt if they so choose, but given the experience behind the scenes and the fact they clearly needed the funding, that basically means the game will never be finished, because they can't even crowdfund it. I know these developers are amazing, and I agree that whatever they make will be amazing, but I feel after the hurdles they jumped through only to have it thrown back in their faces they deserve to have this vision fully realized. This whole ordeal just makes me upset.
really enjoyed the video, also thought your avatar when matpat was talking was adorable
I'm so glad you liked it! It's been a doozy, heh!
How did 5 nights at candy's get green lit when it's a reskin of FNAF, when this is such an amazing game with unique gameplay and unique story
Because it was made with no intention of monetary gain. It was one of the first fnaf games to come out and Scott liked the passion. This video was very poorly made lacking critical information and heavily biased. Afton built was made with the premise that it was going to get it in with ZERO confirmation from Scott. It’s their fault for assuming that their hard work HAD to be repayed from someone who didn’t need them in the first place