Catching a single Transistor - Looking inside the i9-9900K: A single 14nm++ Trigate Transistor (3/3)
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
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You should've compared 14nm transistors to something like the old school pentium 4 transistors I think it would be cool to see how far we've come since
@Li Feng 45nm Intel CPU's... X58 platform 6 core/12 thread CPU's capable of 4.5ghz all core overclock... from nearly 9 year ago.
You can't really say the tech wasn't impressive.
Relative to tech 15 years newer, yeah, 13 micron and .9 micron aren't that impressive, but comparing them to the 486, they were mind blowing.
The 486 was 1 µm, 1000 nm, to .6 µm, 600 nm.
Comparing it to the 486, 90nm was impossibly tiny.
Not sure how much farther we're going to go. Resistance increases with heat and the circuits are all getting smaller while carrying the same joules.
Ignoring the fact that 7nm has little to do with the actual process, we're already hitting the point of diminishing returns.
I just got my Pentium computer to run again. Dual boot windows 95. Dos is so fucking fast
@@glenwaldrop8166 in semiconductors resistance decreases with temperature, and that's one of the reasons high temperatures are bad.
That may be the case with semiconductors but not everything in the chip is a semiconductor.
There is an operating temperature range.
It's incredible that things this tiny can be manufactured accurately, let alone as quickly and cheaply as they are.
Thank God they're made out of dirt.
Imagine if they were made out of gold or platinum or something.
They still probably have trace amounts of both, but...
@@glenwaldrop8166 All the metal they contain cost a lot, because they are extremely high purity. even a seemingly common metal like an Aluminium target for a PVD tool will cost stupid money. tens to over a hundred thousand $ depending on the metal for a target. a few hundred chambers per fab.. and we only talk of one process step..
It takes weeks to months of 24/7 work to actually manufacture these. The prices are only low because they're made in HUGE volumes.
Yes, but its work done by machines, mostly automatically. People are just there to monitor and make adjustments to the system.
60 Years of development.
The quality and depth of content of this channel is beyond anything else I've ever seen . Thank you Roman ...
The depth is incredible. 4 nano meters.
@@MiniMotoAlliance But where are all the plus-es? I don't see them.
@@MrDuck-oi3qc Perhaps at the bottom, kind regards.
The earth is flat, research that, then you can think about "quality and depth".
Well...ua-cam.com/video/VdjYVF4a6iU/v-deo.html
A desktop-sized device thats able to almost distinguish single atoms? What a time to be alive...
Don't forget the probably gigantic Power Supply that is in the room next to it
how big is your desktop lmao
it’s still pretty small for being able to almost distinguish single atoms
I'm just mesmerized by the engineers and scientists who make this..ps a structural engineer myself but electronic engineers are really next level.
@@matteoperron5436 Or how small is your desktop. Maybe the definition of a normal desksize worldwide is a bit different :O Everything is relative
This is an exceptional series thank you for the time you put in producing them & everyone who worked with you, it really is amazing how small Intel are producing CPU's.
I wish educational videos like this where more popular on UA-cam, the top views are such junk lately I’d much rather learn something with you than watch somebody going through the same drive thru 1,000 times or filling swimming pools with orbeez.
Keep doing your thing man its awesome
Not only Intel does this, amd, arm, risc v and anything that uses lots of transistors in a small package will have the same size plus or minus
@@randomsomeguy156 no amd and arm are both using tsmc transistor. Its only intel that is producing its own transistors
Agree,its amazing,almost 'magic'
"Any sufficiently advanced technology will seem like magic to the uninformed" Carl Sagan ?
@@IJoeAceJRI Intel can produce there own silicon buffer.
There are guys making their own transistors at home on youtube if you are interested check out Sam Zeloof´s channel. It is amazing what he has accomplished. I wish he would upload more.
I love how he is looking at a modern next-gen high end cpu through a windows xp era computer.
Most professional machines use XP
dzonikg nope not true
@@aManWhoWantsEverything the entire us military uses windows xp, its true
@@markomclane475 yea for some reason my school too uses xp lmao
@@markomclane475 unsupported os hmmm i dont understand why they would use that
I shared this video to my dad who studied electronic in Cuba and he was blown back in the early 80’s transistors
“Transistors were the size of a corn grain”
He cried.
For high currents and voltages, they still are.
It amazes me that we are even able to view - let alone create and mass-produce - working things at such a tiny level.
I would love to see you do a series on the actual manufacturing of a cpu. great stuff here.
That will never happen
Although, some universities do have low-volume fabs for educational purposes. But TSMC or Intel wouldn't let der8auer anywhere *close* to their fabs. Even without a camera.
Strange Parts did an episode on this
@@squelchedotter Mediatek probably wouldn't mind, their chips suck lol.
@@RedPMD Mediatek uses TSMC
Maybe for some really old tech. You could get a tour
This was every bit as incredible as I thought it would be, thank you so much not only to Roman, but also to the team working with the TEM for taking the time to help produce this awesome series.
I take my hat off to the thousands of engineers, scientists, and mathematicians (of all disciplines) who work to create something as complex as a CPU and do it at a scale that is both massive in numbers produced, and microscopic in size.
It really drives home how hard it must be to get anything to work even once at this scale, nevermind every day for decades without issue, especially when you consider that you can almost count the number of atoms between the fingers of the transistor.
Mind = blown.
Not only is your hat off but your wallet is out too.
One of the most interesting series of videos about CPUs I've watched in a long long time. It's like watching videos about the vastness of the universe for the first time, because the complexity of a single chip in such a small space is a testament to humanity's ingenuity. And the fact we have the ability to view things at such a small scale makes it even more epic!
I find it rather interesting that there is copper within the transistor structure itself. Last I checked, copper formed deep level traps that stops a transistor from working. I would hazer to guess that the perpetration of the lameller contaminate the contents, though the copper spike is tiny and likely negligible, considering how the molybdenum spike is nearly similar, despite being very far away, unless Intel has molybdenum in their processors, but I don't see much reason for that. (Though, could be a molybdenum nitride diffusion barrier.)
The holes is likely a result from a deposition process, the air pockets have a lower dielectric constant then the solid material, so this could minimize cross talk, and they seem like they are placed in every logical location too, might though still be a manufacturing fluke, though this is 14nm+++ so could be intentional, and it would lower power consumption by a bit, due to less capacitance to charge/discharge, this would also improve switching times by a fraction as well, and that air isn't going to be electrically conductive, so we don't need to worry about that. (Though, it does technically lower thermal conductivity through the chip by a very tiny bit, but this is negligible.)
Also nice to see a tungsten layer close to the transistors, since the first layer of interconnects that goes from the transistors and up to the larger layers of interconnects is typically made of tungsten, and not copper. The reason for this is that copper is poison as far as transistors are concerned. (Tungsten too technically.) But the rate of diffusion for tungsten is practically non existent compared to copper. Also tungsten has fairly low electrical resistance, and is easy to work with, making it the ideal metal for interconnects, other then aluminium.
Aluminium is a semiconductor in silicone, its diffusion doesn't technically matter as a result of that (though, it does slightly effect the analog performance of the semiconductors, so precision analog chips do need a long baking period for this diffusion to "finish".), and it has lower electrical resistance then tungsten, it is also way cheaper to work with compared to copper. (it etches nicer then copper, doesn't need a CMP process step, and doesn't need diffusion barriers.) Aluminium has therefor got a foothold in the industry as the go to interconnect material, with exceptions to high power density devices like, Power mosfets, CPUs, GPUs, FPGAs, and such. But the difference in resistance is though only a couple of percent. And spreading out the power pins over as much of the chip area as possible can result in aluminium being satisfactory even for high power density applications, since the PCB/chip carrier typically has superior current carrying capacity. But spending pins so frivolously might not always be possible. (as in pins on the chip surface, not in the socket.)
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the 2nd and 3rd layer of interconnects are made of aluminium and not copper, just to improve yields, tungsten could be used instead for yield reasons, but it would negatively impact power efficiency, but I would need more information to know for sure. (Though the TEM image would state against it being aluminium already, due to aluminium to my knowledge being a bit lighter in color compared to tungsten and copper. (tungsten and copper is though almost identical to my limited knowledge, so it could still be tungsten for more then just the first layer of interconnects. (I after all study semiconductor/CPU design/manufacturing and electronics, not Transmission Electron Microscopy, so I have no clue if the second layer is copper or tungsten. But it is likely not aluminium.)))
Now I only hope this text wall is informative...
I didn't read your whole comment but I just wanted to say you said "hazer to guess" the term is "hazard a guess" sorry
@@WArockets Aw... You should have read it all and pointed out the other incorrect phrases and even at times lack luster grammar. I am disappointed....
He's not a full on Grammar Nazi, he's just more like a Grammar Democratic Socialist or something, he's just not going to put that much effort into it. Someone else can do that.
Good post. I don't have much of anything to add, once you get into the physical layers of the chip I'm an utter and complete newb.
I've been studying on my own for years, got a decent understanding of how all of this works overall, but not the specifics quite yet.
The scale of what they've done with CPUs is beyond virtually every other form of technology. Billions of transistors, when you compare that to a variable valve timing, variable compression, turbo V6, even with all of that the V6 is damn near lego. This is coming from a massive car guy (hobby anyway, job is IT). I could design and build engines all day long, but the scope of detail going into a single CPU dwarfs everything else on the market. It's insane.
Thanks for such an in-depth breakdown of the manufacturing process and physical makeup of these chips. Reading your comment made me feel like I could get a semblance of a grasp on the complexity involved.
It's insane to nearly see the Atoms or the Atom Pillar Structure.
Why are the transistors soo small ??? Bcuz they are
*Gone reduced to atoms*
Literally Reduced to atoms lol
why nearly?
electrons do feel every atom.
we see atoms in silicon stucture.
@@Rainbow__cookie
7nm tech means 53 silicon atoms across.
Those white dots are the atoms. Silicon has an atomic radius of 14 picometers so you can just barely make them out using a TEM. You can also physically measure the interstitial vacancies between atoms instead of using a indirect method like solid-state nuclear magnetic resonance (ssNMR).
This series will be watched and referenced for years to come. Mark my words.
Now I don't feel as bad for spending $500 on a 3900x...
Yeah it's alot of work to it
And it costs several billion dollars to build a fab in the first place.
AMD thinks you still should
Well, you overpaid for it, thats for sure. None of these CPUs cost anywhere near as their retail price to the manufacturer. Its just that you pay a lot for shipping, testing and quality assurance, packaging, etc etc.
So....should you feel bad? No. But lets not pretend that this stuff is highly expensive to manufacture. The massive fab labs they build ensure that this stuff can be manufactured at a very low cost, and this is why they even throw out faulty dies and wafers.
@@morpheas768 The price of these things is not at all based on the manufacturing costs alone, including the cost to research, market, retails etc is of course included in the price as it is with everything. In your logic you overpay for every single item you buy since the price to manufacture anything will be much lower than what you pay for it. You can only base `overpaid` on the margin of pure profit they make on each item which is after all the above mentioned costs, including manufacturing and it is a margin you will never know exactly unless you're the director of finance at Intel.
As others have said, this is an amazing series! Your in depth coverage is awesome. But the fact you do everything in TWO languages, so more people can enjoy it...
How could you possibly dislike this video. This is the peak of human invention. This is the coolest thing ive seen maybe ever. DerBauer, thank you.
8:50 So... that's what your x-rays from your dentist look like, eh? Interesting... * takes slow steps away*... *grabs a head of garlic and a wooden stake *
Omg, I've been hanging for this video, Thank you very much for bringing us this great content.
Wir sind stolz auf dich Roman, weiter so👍💚
The tri-gate transistor looks like a dental xray. :D
Amazing work and video!
That's because the core of the imaging technique is the same. Both more or less image how much particles (electrons or photons) passes through the sample :)
Not bicuspids but _tricuspids_
YES IT DOES
Regarding the holes between copper wires - if I remember correctly, this is one of the technologies that were introduced with Intel 14nm (or it's + version). The holes are supposed to serve as isolation and improve signal quality (better signal quality = higher frequencies).
I know there was an article on WikiChip, were they stated that Intel 10nm isn't using this technology as opposed to 14nm (or 14nm+) Intel. They speculated that Intel could reintroduce it with 10nm+.
They was going to use cobalt at 10 nm but scrapped it along with COAG. Word on the street is Intel's had to gut 10nm so much it's now like 12nm
They are probably air gaps to reduce the parasitic capacitance between adjacent metal lines. Silicon dioxide has a dielectric constant almost 4 times higher than vacuum, so having voids/air gaps really reduces capacitance a lot.
@@wilburt6131 They gutted it so much that it is still comparable to TSCm 7nm+.
(Which is quit a lot considering how over-ambitious Intel initially was with the 10nm)
@@ABaumstumpf have a read on semiaccurate. It's really good for rumours. That's where I read of the gutted 10nm
@@wilburt6131 The ironic thing is how fitting the name is for that side.
They often have very indepth articles that also contain a lot of speculations (with not ever mentioning that those are not facts) that later are shown to be false.
First of all. Congratulations, this series was incredible. Second, I already have so many new questions after seeing this. For example: how does that 4-prong transistor actually work; what would be a size comparison between a "7nm" transistor and this, or on the other side an older, bigger transistor. I have to say I found your channel because of extreme overclocking but this is now my favorite type of content here. Amazing work!
Thank you Der Bauer! This is a great little series. The community wants more!
I had the honor of working for SIEMENS here in the USA in the medical systems division for about 24 years. I met many German technicians from the factory in Erlangen and I enjoyed working with all of them during my career. I enjoyed their broken English accent and the attention to detail and their knowledge and the determination they had to get our problems solved. It is a please to have this very intelligent young man show and describe the technology of the test object and the terrific function of the scanning microscope. Thank you very much for this amazing and impressive video and I have subscribed to reflect my pleasure.
I really appreciate you sharing your passion with us, this series was well worth the time and effort, thank you.
Technology has always been a passion much like engineering and I have enjoyed this 3 party. I have actually done something similar at my office since we have an SEM. I just picked up some silicon wafers from eBay and we ran 1 through it a year ago. It now makes for an excellent presentation piece during bring your children to work day.
Explained clearly with great footage. Well done & thank you.
To actually fully understand how SMALL these things are... brain TDP limit reached
So nice content I really like these series. The work you put into this (and other involved/the whole team) it is just GREAT!!!
Thank you for this video!
This is just fascinating👌👏
With a lot of respect and greetings, Dennis 🇳🇱
Amazing work. Thank you for the great insights and the chance to see more of the microprocessors.
Btw, so refreshing to see a tech channel to promote international students, just loving it. Greetings from Mexiko.
Absolutely loved this series! Fantastic quality, and the most fascinating thing I've watched in a very long time. Thanks Roman!
Those "holes" are intentional in the design, and are referred to as "airgaps" in the industry. Since a void is more insulative/has a lower k-value than than traditional insulator, using this "airgap" will provide improved capacitance between the lines, which is especially important when they are so close together.
I had a chance to work with intel's semiconductor technology so its quite interesting to see what it looks like after being manufactured, super cool video
Next level content
Thank you Roman!
I really enjoyed this series, Roman.
Thank you so much for sharing this information with us. Now I have a completely different vision and respect for modern CPUs. Thanks to everyone involved. Great content!
If you counted each transistor in a 9900K at a rate of 1 transistor per second it would take you 669.07661085743 YEARS!!!!! To count them all.
Josh Booth how about in titan v ceo edition
@@Ahmadsyar It's the same. 21.1 Billion Transistors are on the Titan V CEO Edition
Dammit.
You made me lose count.
1
2
3
4
5
...
It feels like I'm watching Vsauce.
@@CaveyMoth Or is it? :)
to manufacture something that small is truly mindblowing
Awesome little series you made! Very nice nanoscopic view into what everyone is talking about on a macroscopic level :) Also shows nicely how high tech this stuff is. Just looking at the irregularities of the fins of that transistor and the near-atomic scale shows how impressive it is that we (as mankind) can do this and still regularly improve it.
To explain simply how a TEM works, it basically images by whether or not (and how much) electrons pass through a specimen. That's why you need such a small lamella because otherwise, none would pass (practically). Because the wavelength of electrons is so much smaller than that of a (visible or near-visible) photon, it allows for atom scale imaging. Also, the lenses are electromagnetic (i.e. magnets), which is something a lot of people don't realise is possible. Must say that's a nice modern TEM they got there. Our TEM at the University of Twente is something about 30 or 40 years old already XD
Hooray for science!
The good part about TEMs is that they don't age much!
Shoving 200keV electrons through a specimen worked exactly the same way 30 years ago! Focusing, too, most likely.
I really want to see the same way a 7nm CPU like Ryzen!!!
vessk000 microscope in thanos voice : impossible
yea, that would open a lot of eyes regarding the "competition" :) for better and better cpus
just take half of it then you'll get 7nm
the amd "7nm" isn't true 7nm the measure from a smaller point and don't fit as many transistors in which is why intel isn't going 7nm yet because their isn't much value.
53 atoms.
silicon atom has size of 0.132nm
It looks amazing, please make a Ryzen 7nm next to see the difference on how it's constructed and a size comparison side-by-side with the 9900K would be so damn cool.
This is absolutely mind-blowing !!! I'd have loved to work on that, if I'd been given the possibility. Respect !
There's something really funky going on with these dental records.
Crazy that man can make the processor being viewed as well as the equipment used to view it! That microscope is badass
The microscope is orders of magnitude harder to achieve than the microprocessor. It's like comparing a CPU to a microwave.
His first word and i already know hes german
@@AVcomps1 hä was? ja
Thanks for the video, we take it for granted how far we've come!
1:25 The satisfied look of professor when you answer correctly.
it would be so cool to have an actual 3d model available to see showing clearly in a cross section and cut away method what we see on the microscope, and visualize how is applied in the actual product
that model would be huge tho
Fantastic video! Makes our SEM analysis device look archaic! Thanks again.
This might be one of the coolest things I have ever seen. Looking at a single transistor, 44 FREAKING NANO METERS wide, is unbelievable to me. The fact that we can even make things that small, nevermind pack literally billions of them in accurately and with purpose, is crazy in all conceivable senses of the word.
around 03:50 woww great shot, those background artifices are stunning sometimes.
Really loved the series, Roman. Keep it coming!
Imo modern chip manufacturing is one of humanity’s greatest technological achievements. The fact that we can manufacture transistors that once took up the space of a lightbulb at a size where you can almost make out the individual molecules in it, put BILLIONS of them into a tiny chip the size of a fingernail, and then sell the complete product for sometimes less than 100 dollars. absolutely amazing.
9:22 the black between the dots is literal void, and that's crazy to think that we are literally made out of void in a certain part
Now take apart and look inside a "7nm" Ryzen CPU :-D
Hehe Intel is dead unless they outsource mnfg to Taiwan. Even then their architecture is sort of got out of hand and will die off eventually.
Yeah this would be very interesting.
dzhiurgis still faster than ryzen
@@PorWik 2% faster, 2x price
@@PorWik Well this aged like milk.
It's ridiculous how far we've actuelly come.
I would not swear on my life this is all human technology. I've seen quite a few chips under electronic microscope. How could a human brain only process all the information needed to build such architectures and manage to turn them into physical objects using other machines to do so is pretty mindblowing.
One of the most fascinating series I've ever seen.
This is why you're one of the best! No one brings this kind of content. :)
See those black holes next to transistors? Those are security holes
hahahaha
Excellent videos Roman, thanks heaps for this journey into the 9900k.
Oh man, thanks for all of this. It is nice to see this kind of video with such detail! Brutal!
Dude has Windows 98 on one monitor, Windows 7/Vista on another... what a blast from the past
Best youtube series of all time
Ok exactly which part of the 9900K corresponds to the '14nm' label?
Amazing. Thanks for this. My mind is just blown.
Extremely amazing! We are waiting for Zen2 slicing to the atoms!
That was awesome your channel is so cool thanks for all the great content, my friends and I frequently enjoy it :)
I watched 5 minutes only to realize this is the almighty der8auer himself
10/10! These were amazing to watch. Thank youuuu!
Amazing work done 👍🏼
What miracles humanity can create with the right motivations. Thank you for these amazing videos.
Thanks for that. This is really amazing and something we would never see outside a college class or the fabs itself. Too bad we don't have an in depth like this in the manufacturing of a CPU only the slices of a alreadly made cpu.
Absolutely amazing content! No one makes it quite like Roman, proper geek stuff I love
Absolutely magnificent job der8
3:05 this is what I imagine alien overlords would look like
lol I only ever seen 3d graphics of it in trailers ad stuff. Must be rly cool to see a real one now
That little darker layer around the via is the barrier layer that prevents mass electro-migration of the Cu atoms into the dielectric layer separating the metal layers. Without it, over time the CPU will fail due to phenomenon called TDDB - time dependent dielectric breakdown.
super massive idk why this video received 1.7K likes it should be more than millions. anyway good job roman
Wow, the shapes are really irregular, I would have expected something more precise, but at this scale I guess it's difficult to do even with current technology.
Absolutely fantastic work der8auer!
Absolutely amazing. I would love love LOVE to sit with the engineers who designed the manufacturing process. Show me the equipment and how it's made!
probably start with a huge magnifying glass
That is so interesting. So glad you explained it. Thank you.
Thank you! That is the best video about processors l’ve ever seen!
I hope this can be a series and we can look into CPUs of different process node, GPUs, RAM, FLASH, microcontrollers, etc.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" Carl Sagan
I love computer technology, especially graphics technology.Thanks Roman,your really coming into your own and growing as a creator.
Fascinating stuff...thumbs up man.
Very high quality content Roman. Can you tell us what part is the 14nm? I didn't see any feature of the tri-gate transistor that was 14nm.
if you managed to pause between 08:36 to 08:37 you will see his "ring finger" tip and see that gap on X-Ray screen? that's the 14nm definition is "The gap of the Jump" for electrons
Absolutely... Incredible.... Just wow....
Thanks Roman :) This really does blow my mind.
Such a great video....keep up the effort..
It's been 40 years since I took Modern Physics and 30 since I studied transistor fab and physics of semiconductors. Very interesting and it brought back a little of my education that I've long forgotten. How are the elements in the sample determined? Is it by mass spectroscopy?
Amazing series !!! Thank you for showing this in such an amazing detail an scale!
I work for the company that makes this microscope. Very impressive series. Thanks for making us look good :)
Hey, shoutouts from HEPHY Vienna ! Interesting stuff.
9:23 they are indeed atoms cuz by the reference the gap looks like 10nm wide (don't quote me on that) or whatever it is but it is the range to identify silicon atoms as 1silicon atom's diameter is 0.2nm which states that there are about 50 atoms between those structures and thus the dots are indeed atoms.
One of your best videos. More! More! More!
WOW!11 Thank you so much!!! I am a Chemical Engineering Student in Seattle and have just been put through the ringer on intermolecular forces and watching this is so satisfying to see the molecules in that manner. It all so incredible what we humans can do.
at a guess I would say that it is 236nm across assuming the nodes (pointy things, I don't know there real name) are separated by 44nm from each other and the 2 side walls which I guess are the entry and exit (source or drain) if I have understood this correctly. Plus I added 4nm for each point.
So 44nm gaps x 5 = 220 and 4 x 4nm material =16, Σ of these 2 parts = 236nm
I hope someday in my lifetime this kind of equipment will become affordable for hobbyists. Especially if it makes gate-level probing and manipulation possible. Like, right now, it's very feasible for a skilled hobbyist to disassemble a piece of software e.g. for security research or modding, and manipulate its operation without needing to first find a vulnerability in said software. If the same becomes true of microchips, it'll be much harder for manufacturers to keep secrets from their end users, or to limit what they can do with the hardware they purchased. There'd be a lot more eyes to find and expose things like backdoors, and the possibility of jailbreaking things like iPhones would become possible without the manufacturer having any way to patch it in a firmware update.
That is using computer with the electron picture is running XP or a newer OS with the Classic theme for the lower resource usage.
Maybe the software is using the WIndows Classic theme.