same, i was also wondering why the L2 would be "stable" when all the forces are on one side, but of course they'll need the acceleration to stay in a circular motion
I understood the L2 for JWST but what i dont understand is it's orbit around the moon... Or what i have seen on other simulations is that it's orbit is far away from the moon's center of gravity... So where is it free falling to for maintaining it's orbit around the moon... Or does JWST has orbit around moon???
@@user-bx6vw7oh8s the JWST orbits around the Sun; it is in the L2 point for the Earth and Sun, not Earth and Moon. This is so that the Earth is always between the JWST and the Sun, keeping most of the IR 'noise' from the Sun from interfering with the JWST's sensors.
Entertaining show and talented, entertaining host mated with generally unpopular, difficult subject. If Nick could handle the cognitive dissonance required to talk about the Kardashians for 10 minutes every week he'd be a multi millionaire.
A fun thing with Lagrange points is that they form the basis of extremely efficient orbital trajectories called "weak stability boundary transfer trajectories", part of a category of "low-energy transfers". Together, the system which connects these trajectories is called the "interplanetary transport network". If you have enough time and patience, you can use use these trajectories to wander around the Solar System for little to no fuel. Sometimes there is a free lunch after all!
Great video, but I wish you had explained how the Coriolis effect works at L4 and L5. I understand the effect as it applies to weather, but the extension to objects orbiting in space was not obvious.
This was verified by the right reverend Billy F. Gibbons when he described the point like this: Rumour spreadin' 'round In that Texas town About that shack outside La Grange And you know what I'm talkin' about Reverend Gibbons assumed this was common knowledge at the time.
This video does a great job of explaining the concept of Lagrange Points. The explanation is about as clear as could be. Maybe there should be some mention that the James Webb Space Telescope is heading for L2.
@@chrisrus1965 If there are rocks, they are more likely to be at the "stable" points ; 4 & 5. Rocks usually don't have means of propulsion for coerce corrections ;).
I couldn't have made Lagrange Points more Confusing and Complicated myself ... Well Done ! ..... Now I can search for a clearer more simpler explanation ... Tanks a Lot !
Bro it’s awesome to see your channel expanding. You put out high quality content, and I always learn more than I can handle for a day with just one video! Love your stuff man, keep it up!!!
That was really well done and very clear. You make this stuff so much fun. (By the way ... what's the, uh, Lagrange situation around Milton's home? How many suns, moons, etc.? And what do they call those points where he's from?)
I understand WHAT Lagrange points are, can we have a video on how they work in more detail? I'm most interested in L4-L5 points. How do they center back?
I have been searching for why L4 and L5 exist for so long! Thank you for at least offering SOME kind of explanation. "We're not really sure why they even exist" will do for now! At least it's an answer. Thanks!
@@ScienceAsylum And Scott Manley just did an interesting piece on it where his computer sim shows the asteroids caught in Jupiter's L4 and L5. ua-cam.com/video/7PHvDj4TDfM/v-deo.html 9:31 It could just be a motion plugged into the computer software, but it looks like they are all rotating around the axis of the motion of the planet. Kind of like right hand rule.
The more eccentric the orbit, the less stable the points are. At sufficiently high eccentricity, the Lagrange points are still _technically_ there, but they become less useful.
This video was awesome as always, but I want to know that, did you used space symmetry proved by Amy Nother to put that analogy to work, that was so cool, by tha way. And thank you for relieving my curiosity ache for today.😊😊
as always Nick a perfectly simple to follow explanation, i very nearly gave this vid a miss (yes im a little crazy), but you once again taught me something that I Thought i already knew !
Great video! Could you do a video on orbital resonances next? Also, can you explain more about trojan asteroids, especially those in the Lagrange points (L4 and L5) of Jupiter? I personally find these quite fascinating, and the fact that a spacecraft ( _Lucy_ ) will be launched in 2021 to explore Jupiter's trojans really fuels. By the way, keep it up with your content!
’Bout time You got a sponsor! I bet they really came to shave the day? Your videos are really great, and today I learned something completely new. Never even heard of these points before.
OK, I get it. But what isn't explained (like in your example of a non-spherical space rock between the Earth and moon) is that if that object is rotating on its own axis, its gravity relationship between Earth and moon is constantly changing, meaning its Lagrange point is always changing. Lagrange points only work if all objects are perfectly spherical and their mass exerts an influence equally in all directions. So how do Lagrange points compensate for irregularly shaped objects?
This isn't an all-or-nothing kind of thing. Even though the planets/moons aren't perfectly spherical and the orbits aren't perfectly circular and there are tugs between the planets, there can still be Lagrange points. They're just not perfectly _stable._
You say L3 could never send us data because it is blocked by the Sun, but wouldn’t it be more proper to say it could never send us data DIRECTLY? If you had a communication relay in L4/L5 or periodically data dumped to a relay around another planet like Venus or Mars, then you could eventually get the L3 data beamed to Earth. So, if we absolutely had to monitor the backside of the Sun, we could do so with a bent-pipe communication architecture.
Yeah we can't actually get to L4 or L5 to position relay stations due to the negative effects of transitive micro fluctuations caused by anti-gravity boosters on machines occupying those regions. Machines that we didn't put there.
Great explanation, but I'm confused about L2 through L5. There's nothing on the other side of them, so who's gravity is keeping it stable? For example, since L3 has the Earth and the sun on one side of it shouldn't whatever is in it just fall towards them?
The two astronomical objects are keeping them stable. Remember, the forces shouldn't cancel. They just need to result in an orbital (angular) speed equal to that of the orbiting object. That happens at 5 locations.
Lagrange points are very interesting. I picture them as little eddy currents like in a river where leaves and debris get trapped. I really don''t understand the math behind them at all.
This is amazingly good description of what LaGrange points are. Very understandable. The next phase of NASA could be placing some people in orbit around the LaGrangian points. This was discussed in a press conference as a possibility. This would be the first example of a manned spaceship outside of "earth low orbit." How to get people excited about it? Videos like this! Thank you...
I've been watching this channel too much. I used to imagine classical analogies to help understand quantum phenomena. But now I'm like, "So if we treat space junk like random particles, would the Lagrange points be probability peaks?"
And I would assume that large solar events like coronal mass ejections add in an additional force (and changing the energy of the system) by swelling the earth's atmosphere and creating drag. This then would temporarily move the Lagrange point? And once the event is over, does this mean that the satellite should naturally move back to the previous Lagrange point, or are corrections necessary for this reason? Another brilliant video. Thanks!
Hum...Good question...If "it" orbits something...two unequal gravitational forces I think Nick said. He kept mentioning planet or moon. I'd watch out for Universal expansion too at the scales you're asking about. I'll bet you could go through Hubble data and look for objects where you've predicted (and then, rolling forward and backwards in time, objects seen now that were flung out ((or not)) from those points). What a great discovery you could have from this question! Galaxies (aka- black holes) held in those points. Very interesting question ! If so maybe they could be universally mapped. Used for high speed navigation. Perhaps predictable gravitational lenzing spots (the objects there might be very massive and dark). What a great question !
Yes, the effects of extended objects are only noticeable on a length scale about equal to their length. So many galactic radii from a galaxy, and it acts just like a point mass.
Thanks for a very good video! :) Although it seems to confuse many people, it's important to hammer home the fact that acceleration does NOT mean "Go FASTER grandma!!" To scientists (& to us regular people who are just scientifically-minded!!), 'acceleration' means 'a change in speed.' Thank you for pointing that out - most people don't realize it. So, folks... acceleration (that 'change in speed') can be positive ("Go FASTER grandma!!"), negative ("Slow DOWN, grandma!!") or zero ("Nice cruise-control, grandma!!") If you're ever in a situation where you're riding in a car & a scientist is driving - & you see something they need to avoid by going faster, NEVER say, "Hurry - ACCELERATE!!!" That scientist will say, "positively or negatively." Just say, "Go FASTER!!!" ;) tavi.
Thanks sir for such a simple explanation. It helped me in understanding the reason behind Deploying James Webb space telescope at L2.
same, i was also wondering why the L2 would be "stable" when all the forces are on one side, but of course they'll need the acceleration to stay in a circular motion
I understood the L2 for JWST but what i dont understand is it's orbit around the moon... Or what i have seen on other simulations is that it's orbit is far away from the moon's center of gravity... So where is it free falling to for maintaining it's orbit around the moon... Or does JWST has orbit around moon???
@@user-bx6vw7oh8s the JWST orbits around the Sun; it is in the L2 point for the Earth and Sun, not Earth and Moon. This is so that the Earth is always between the JWST and the Sun, keeping most of the IR 'noise' from the Sun from interfering with the JWST's sensors.
Finally getting a sponsor and being noticed. I am so happy for you. You deserve more recognition than what you get.
Entertaining show and talented, entertaining host mated with generally unpopular, difficult subject. If Nick could handle the cognitive dissonance required to talk about the Kardashians for 10 minutes every week he'd be a multi millionaire.
You do this so well and explain things like Richard Feynman.
*Partners with dollar shave club
*Hasn’t shaved
*his beard
My face looks like that by the time I finish drinking my coffee
He he he, good one!
@@garavonhoiwkenzoiber 😂😂😂😂
@@garavonhoiwkenzoiber LMAO 😂🙏
A fun thing with Lagrange points is that they form the basis of extremely efficient orbital trajectories called "weak stability boundary transfer trajectories", part of a category of "low-energy transfers". Together, the system which connects these trajectories is called the "interplanetary transport network". If you have enough time and patience, you can use use these trajectories to wander around the Solar System for little to no fuel. Sometimes there is a free lunch after all!
...or at least a _really_ cheap lunch.
Would this make those La Grange points around Jupiter a great place to go asteroid mining ?
It's actually not free, the orbits of the hosts pay for it.
@@imdawolfman2698 practically free... for us
@@imdawolfman2698 how
The fact the the man figured this out back when it was first presented is amazing! France has done some impressive things!
I'm always impressed with your clarity of explanation! I look forward to more wonderful content during study breaks:)
For some reason, UA-cam think that I need to know about Lagrange points. I’ll trust that your video will be the best explanation of all of them.
The James Webb Space Telescope is a really popular topic right now.
I thought I fully understood Lagrange points..Turns out I was wrong! Great explanation!
Yup. Me too. The coordinate stuff threw my brain for a loop.
Threw your brain for a loop !, funny but does that mean your brain has Lagrange points too ?
Great video, but I wish you had explained how the Coriolis effect works at L4 and L5. I understand the effect as it applies to weather, but the extension to objects orbiting in space was not obvious.
I am here a couple days after James Webb launched! Perfect timing! 😀
In the last millennium, there was a La Grange point somewhere around the 1970's. It was on the Top of the ZZ coordinates.
Ha! Or should I say "Aha ha ha how!"
Heaven, Hell or Newton
This was verified by the right reverend Billy F. Gibbons when he described the point like this:
Rumour spreadin' 'round
In that Texas town
About that shack outside La Grange
And you know what I'm talkin' about
Reverend Gibbons assumed this was common knowledge at the time.
At that point, a guitar will spin around freely at constant speed.
Thanx, this was the comment I was looking for.
"I don't know about you but I shower and shave everyday" - Science Asylum laying down those burns today lol
i dont know about you but i dont shower and shave, i only shower when its convenient
Gentlemen should do their 3 (sh)s evey day...shit, shave, shower
This helped me so much with understanding the jame Webb telescopes orbit thank you so much
You're welcome!
This video does a great job of explaining the concept of Lagrange Points. The explanation is about as clear as could be. Maybe there should be some mention that the James Webb Space Telescope is heading for L2.
Wait: Are there lots of rocks at L2? Is Jim in danger there?
We know Jim can see far. Can it also see near enough to step out if the way of L2 rocks?
@@chrisrus1965 If there are rocks, they are more likely to be at the "stable" points ; 4 & 5. Rocks usually don't have means of propulsion for coerce corrections ;).
Merci pour ces explications éclairantes !
You're very welcome!
I just saw your Lagrange mechanics video, and thought "cool now how about the L points for a follow up", and wow here it is.
I couldn't have made Lagrange Points more Confusing and Complicated myself ... Well Done ! ..... Now I can search for a clearer more simpler explanation ... Tanks a Lot !
Your explanations and visuals are soo good
The mountain analogy really helped
That's great! Thanks for letting me know.
Energetic and concise as always. Instant like...
You have improved so much in terms of script and graphics. The topic chosen was interesting as well. Keep it up man!
Finally a clear explanation on Lagrange points, you sir deserve all the cookies.
Could you do more episodes on astrodynamics/orbital mechanics?
I like to do them every once in a while. There will be more.
"Rotating frames can be weird like that." Boy, can they!
Thanks for the memories of this aspect of classical mechanics!
Fred
This video is one of my favorite now. I loved the concept( which I never heard). Great video Nick. Keep it up!👍
Glad you liked it.
I have an interview working with the JWST tomorrow and this was very helpful to understand the different Lagrange points and why L2 is used.
Glad I could help. Good luck with the interview!
I have watched 7 videos on Lagrange points today and this one made the most sense. Thanks!
Glad it helped! 🤓
Bro it’s awesome to see your channel expanding. You put out high quality content, and I always learn more than I can handle for a day with just one video! Love your stuff man, keep it up!!!
Thanks!
That was really well done and very clear. You make this stuff so much fun. (By the way ... what's the, uh, Lagrange situation around Milton's home? How many suns, moons, etc.? And what do they call those points where he's from?)
Thanks!
I'm here 2 years after this was released cause it's SO relevant right now, lol! Thanks for the explainer!
Thanks for helping me understand Lagrange points. I had a very small idea of them. Now I know more.
Glad I could help! 🤓
I understand WHAT Lagrange points are, can we have a video on how they work in more detail? I'm most interested in L4-L5 points. How do they center back?
I have been searching for why L4 and L5 exist for so long! Thank you for at least offering SOME kind of explanation. "We're not really sure why they even exist" will do for now! At least it's an answer. Thanks!
The weirdest part is that L4 and L5 are the _most stable_ of the five points 🤯.
@@ScienceAsylum And Scott Manley just did an interesting piece on it where his computer sim shows the asteroids caught in Jupiter's L4 and L5. ua-cam.com/video/7PHvDj4TDfM/v-deo.html 9:31 It could just be a motion plugged into the computer software, but it looks like they are all rotating around the axis of the motion of the planet. Kind of like right hand rule.
its okay to stay a little crazy! I think this channel is so fun!
Great video, very clear explanation. What effect does a high eccentricity have on the stability of the points?
The more eccentric the orbit, the less stable the points are. At sufficiently high eccentricity, the Lagrange points are still _technically_ there, but they become less useful.
@@ScienceAsylum Thanks, that's interesting.
Im glad your channel popped up in my feed. Kudos, crazy.
This video was awesome as always, but I want to know that, did you used space symmetry proved by Amy Nother to put that analogy to work, that was so cool, by tha way. And thank you for relieving my curiosity ache for today.😊😊
You're welcome! No need to invoke Noether's theorem for this. I will do that for some upcoming videos though (hopefully).
@@ScienceAsylum at 3:40 I thought, when you rotated space making Earth stationery instead.☺️☺️
Oh, that's just Galilean relativity. Noether's theorem is a deep relationship between symmetry and conserved quantities.
This video just got recommended to me in perfect time!
A video about something I have never heard of, awesome!
Thanks for this explanation. L points hardly ever get mentioned and I wondered about their usages.
Well it's not a surprise anymore that we'll always be amazed by the teaching skills of this man.
Another superb explanation for the layman. Thanks. And great graphics.
Finally, you got sponsorship.
Love you're videos.
I always understand what you are telling us. Great job. Thanks
As always, an excellent, intuitive, entertaining, and most importantly educational video. Thank you so much for making these. Your videos make my day.
as always Nick a perfectly simple to follow explanation, i very nearly gave this vid a miss (yes im a little crazy), but you once again taught me something that I Thought i already knew !
Always learning something interesting from you. Thank you
Extremely cool. Pretty crazy that such things exist.
5:42 nobody expects the coriollis effect!!!
Great video! Could you do a video on orbital resonances next?
Also, can you explain more about trojan asteroids, especially those in the Lagrange points (L4 and L5) of Jupiter? I personally find these quite fascinating, and the fact that a spacecraft ( _Lucy_ ) will be launched in 2021 to explore Jupiter's trojans really fuels. By the way, keep it up with your content!
Best explanation I found so far!
Liked before watching.
Also, I'm glad to see that you're getting sponsors!
I'd make a funny comment about L4 and L5 but I keep getting stuck...
Nailed it
How about a new conspiracy theory where the government might be hiding or denying the existence of an L6 point? ;_)
Lol
You're getting stuck in Godel's incompleteness theorem
Knowledge is better than love and it's only getting better.
Farnsworth: If only I'd made some sort of mistake.
Stephen Hawking: You didn't. I checked the invariance of your lagrangian. Hubba hubba.
A nice and enjoyable explanation of Lagrange points....
Glad you liked it 🤓
Recommending this channel everywhere after discovering it via a compliment to PBS Spacetime, and wish I'd found this interesting repository.
I *semi*-understand your videos now since I've been taking physics for almost 4 months now.
Another nicely explained video and love that you have a cool sponsor.
I'm loving The Button! You deserved it a long time ago, and more than most. Congratulations!
This really was cool, esp. the expanded explanation of why Lagrange points work. Next cool gravitational thing: Interplanetary Superhighway.
Now I understand where the James Webb is going to be placed. So it's semi stable that would mean course correction from time to time. Great video.
Yep! It has little jets on it so that it can periodically correct itself.
For the first time I couldn't understand your explanation while eating food.
I think I need to watch it with more concentration after I go to my home.
’Bout time You got a sponsor! I bet they really came to shave the day? Your videos are really great, and today I learned something completely new. Never even heard of these points before.
I am your biggest fan sir your videos are outstanding amazing wonderful thanks a lot
OK, I get it. But what isn't explained (like in your example of a non-spherical space rock between the Earth and moon) is that if that object is rotating on its own axis, its gravity relationship between Earth and moon is constantly changing, meaning its Lagrange point is always changing. Lagrange points only work if all objects are perfectly spherical and their mass exerts an influence equally in all directions. So how do Lagrange points compensate for irregularly shaped objects?
This isn't an all-or-nothing kind of thing. Even though the planets/moons aren't perfectly spherical and the orbits aren't perfectly circular and there are tugs between the planets, there can still be Lagrange points. They're just not perfectly _stable._
Great video, can you do a video on Tired light hypothesis.
The basketball/valley analogy works a treat! SixtySymbols didn't have quite so an intuitive an elucidation. Must be something in the name.
You say L3 could never send us data because it is blocked by the Sun, but wouldn’t it be more proper to say it could never send us data DIRECTLY? If you had a communication relay in L4/L5 or periodically data dumped to a relay around another planet like Venus or Mars, then you could eventually get the L3 data beamed to Earth. So, if we absolutely had to monitor the backside of the Sun, we could do so with a bent-pipe communication architecture.
L3 is where the alien base stays hidden from us so you would have to get permission from them to hang out there.
Yeah we can't actually get to L4 or L5 to position relay stations due to the negative effects of transitive micro fluctuations caused by anti-gravity boosters on machines occupying those regions. Machines that we didn't put there.
Amazing, accurate explanation topped up with clever irony 😊😊 Best UA-cam channel!!
Thanks! Very interesting, and helps explain what I'd heard about Jupiter sweeping up the solar system's debris
Finally a video that explains lagrange points in an understandable way beyond "they just exist"
Sounds like you're watching terrible channels.. x)
Lagrange points - kewl.
How come I have never heard about those before?.. Thank you!
Great explanation, but I'm confused about L2 through L5. There's nothing on the other side of them, so who's gravity is keeping it stable? For example, since L3 has the Earth and the sun on one side of it shouldn't whatever is in it just fall towards them?
The two astronomical objects are keeping them stable. Remember, the forces shouldn't cancel. They just need to result in an orbital (angular) speed equal to that of the orbiting object. That happens at 5 locations.
Ah! After the JWST Christmas gift, UA-cam recommended me this video again!
This was useful for understanding Gundam and it's space colonies.
Great one Nick L!
Thanks for this video on this topic
I have never heard about this so it's good to learn such amazing topics
Lagrange points are very interesting. I picture them as little eddy currents like in a river where leaves and debris get trapped. I really don''t understand the math behind them at all.
Finally someone kind of answered my question, I was wondering about Lagrange points being full of junk
Yep! That's especially true for L4 and L5 because they're the most stable of the 5 points. This is a big reason we don't use them.
This is amazingly good description of what LaGrange points are. Very understandable.
The next phase of NASA could be placing some people in orbit around the LaGrangian points. This was discussed in a press conference as a possibility. This would be the first example of a manned spaceship outside of "earth low orbit." How to get people excited about it? Videos like this! Thank you...
those points are very cool, like 3 kelvins cool
I've been watching this channel too much. I used to imagine classical analogies to help understand quantum phenomena. But now I'm like, "So if we treat space junk like random particles, would the Lagrange points be probability peaks?"
Nice one, just remember....analogies only go that far.....
@@ronnyvbk true.
Whoops, I shouldn't say "true" in a science video.
Observations support your model, is what I meant to say.
Thank you for content. Langrange points are cool
This channel is really fun!
I use Lagrange multipliers (and Hamiltonian) in economics, but this confused me a little bit more :D.... awesome videos btw, great personality too!
And I would assume that large solar events like coronal mass ejections add in an additional force (and changing the energy of the system) by swelling the earth's atmosphere and creating drag. This then would temporarily move the Lagrange point? And once the event is over, does this mean that the satellite should naturally move back to the previous Lagrange point, or are corrections necessary for this reason?
Another brilliant video. Thanks!
Thank you for this, great Stuff. And it had me smiling at times.
Does something very extended like a galaxy or a globular cluster have Lagrange points?
Hum...Good question...If "it" orbits something...two unequal gravitational forces I think Nick said. He kept mentioning planet or moon. I'd watch out for Universal expansion too at the scales you're asking about. I'll bet you could go through Hubble data and look for objects where you've predicted (and then, rolling forward and backwards in time, objects seen now that were flung out ((or not)) from those points). What a great discovery you could have from this question!
Galaxies (aka- black holes) held in those points. Very interesting question ! If so maybe they could be universally mapped. Used for high speed navigation. Perhaps predictable gravitational lenzing spots (the objects there might be very massive and dark). What a great question !
Yes, the effects of extended objects are only noticeable on a length scale about equal to their length. So many galactic radii from a galaxy, and it acts just like a point mass.
Very top notched info.
Thank you!
Thanks for a very good video! :) Although it seems to confuse many people, it's important to hammer home the fact that acceleration does NOT mean "Go FASTER grandma!!" To scientists (& to us regular people who are just scientifically-minded!!), 'acceleration' means 'a change in speed.' Thank you for pointing that out - most people don't realize it. So, folks... acceleration (that 'change in speed') can be positive ("Go FASTER grandma!!"), negative ("Slow DOWN, grandma!!") or zero ("Nice cruise-control, grandma!!") If you're ever in a situation where you're riding in a car & a scientist is driving - & you see something they need to avoid by going faster, NEVER say, "Hurry - ACCELERATE!!!" That scientist will say, "positively or negatively." Just say, "Go FASTER!!!" ;) tavi.
You explain in an incredible fantastic way everything. You have a gift! I'll raise my Patreon support! Thanks.
Thank you for your support!
Only took 2 minutes before i was totally lost and had to start the vid again....smashed my personal best
Thank you! You are a superb explainer! (Or is it a team effort? I'm new here.) Subbed!
No team back then. One-person show. I've only very recently started to hire help, but not consistently.
Sweeeeeet! This channel rocks!!
Cool and the best explanation I've seen!
La grange points are very cool!!
Awesome explanation!