Reading material: setitupbetter.com/Compensating-The-Nut.php guitarnutcompensation.com/ "What I've done for a number of years is to cut the fingerboard about 0.5MM short and then facet the nut so that the high E string and the D string both go back almost to the original nui position. The G string is left unfaceted and the others are placed in intermediate positions. Then I set the saddle setback according to the 12th-fret harmonic. It has been an improved system. Players consistently tell me that my guitars are more in tune than most guitars are. But I have never been fully satisfied with that solution, and I've learned just in doing this analysis that I really was not doing enough compensation at the nut." www.proguitar.com/academy/guitar/intonation/byers-classical hazeguitars.com/blog/guitar-hardware-school-nuts-ii-compensated-nuts fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/nut-compensation
Hi Bryan, you should start offering this on your Customer's guitars. This is a way prettier solution for 70's Martins that have a nice patina on the top, than scooting the bridge. Much nicer than shimming the heel of the neck, as you nearly can't see it at all in the video. Well done, Bryan!
Well, I don't know how durable it is yet. Scooting the bridge back puts the bridge farther back on the X for a slightly more pre-war sound. So... we'll see. This needs more long term testing but it certainly COULD be an option and I do like it better than the neck shim, for the most part. Again, though... the intonation isn't quite as good, esp on the first few frets, as scooting the bridge to the correct scale. You can get it there but there's NO forgiveness to it.
Okay, this makes total sense! I have a 1979 M36 with intonation issues, I did a neck reset and noticed the problem so I tried scooting the nut back towards the headstock a tad and it just makes fretting intonation worse.. Bryan, have you heard or seen early M36's having this issue? Its really sad to hear you are leaving lutherie! Hope its just a break and you'll be back soon, your work is brilliant. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with all of us!
@@Bryankimsey Yea, not too many of these floating around I guess, love the body style too, not crazy about the narrow nut width and neck profile but still a comfortable guitar to play otherwise, thanks for the reply!
Wouldn't the notes still be sharp? Because in theory, once you hit whatever fret, its still 1/8th shorter from the fret to the saddle. Once a note is made, anything behind that fret doesnt really matter. If that makes any sense.
Try it. You're missing the point that the distance from the OPEN string to all the frets is shorter. You tune the string open and it expects X distance to the fret. When that distance is LESS, the note tunes flat. And boom... you just compensated. I guarantee you it works because it changed this guitar from several cents sharp at the 5th fret to dead on. Again, I have used this technique to correct FLAT intonation on some guitars. But.... tryyyyyyy it. Just get a toothpick and shove it under the E string near the fret. You can move it around and watch the intonation change. You'll have to re-tune the open string every time you move it, of course.
Moving the bridge back makes the strings longer. Putting material after the nut makes them shorter. How can these two opposite modifications be solutions to the same problem?
Hey there! I like this idea of compensating the nut but wouldn’t it not work if you were using a capo? It would still have the same problem I would think? Please let me know your thoughts before I go ahead and try this. Thank you man!
You could cut the ebony nut slots deep and fill them with colored bone dust and super glue if the ebony doesn't hold up...the glue should reinforce the wood. How about black tusq cut flat instead of ebony?
The only point of the ebony here was to demonstrate that the technique works. The BEST solution, if you're gonna use this approach is to just cut a zero fret slot. The ebony is sort of a stealth approach because it blends into the fingerboard. I've made lots of ebony nuts and they're holding up just fine so I don't have a problem with ebony. Tusq, Micarta, Richlite... all would be fine, if it matched the fingerboard. If it doesn't, might as well use a zero fret.
Hi, I'm impressed about your expertise ! I have a d41 sunburst 2013 and it's Nice ! 2 questions: I think the nut is plastic... Do you recommand to put a bone instead ? Second, when I play A at the 5th fret, the Sound is very compressed, it's seems the Sound could not go out and it is the only note that has this "issue" are you familiar with this and do you think it could be fixed by doing something on the scalopped bracing ? Thank you !
'13 should have a bone nut already. No telling on the note.... there are a LOT of things that can affect that- pins, neck relief, action, possibly a high fret. I would look at my video on "The Next Fret Technique" and "Guitar Setup 101" and see if you can find something. I'd look at all of that first. And then the first modification I'd do would be the back braces. Again... there's a video "Shaving the rear back braces".
Hey Bryan, Love the videos. Did you have to modify the original nut on the bottom for the spacing to allow enough room for the wood shim to seat properly?
No.... it's just sitting on the fingerboard. I shaped it to fit the radius and then glued it to the face of the nut. Never took the nut out or bothered it in any way.
Buzz Feiten. Sure, IF it provided the necessary amount of compensation. This is not a one-size fits all thing. I had to move that ebony strip around several times to find the desired compensation. Also, the Buzz nut is intended to make certain chords sound better in the first few frets... it's not really intended to compensate for an incorrect bridge location.
Absolutely. That exactly what the ebony spacer is acting as. This way was 100% non-invasive, though. I fully intended to overhaul this D-28 and do the bridgeplate and scoot the bridge back (or use neck shims, as I show in another video). The ebony shim here was to demonstrate a simple and quick way to correct intonation and it let me play the guitar immediately. The main issue I'd have with a zero fret is that it would shorten the scale and you don't get the advantage of scooting the bridge back on the X braces. Other than that... no problem.
@@Bryankimsey A healthy break is always good. I did that with banjo playing, but coming back from that break has not been an easy thing. My fingers have stiffened up a bit. I think little Arthur might have settled in while my back was turned. lol
I'm starting with the Authentics. They've run their course for me. I'm keeping the '72 D-18 and then either the '65 D-21 or the '75 D-35... not sure. Probably keeping the D-35 as it's more different from the 18. I was always going to sell some... since I won't be working much this spring, now's the time to generate some income from them.
Reading material:
setitupbetter.com/Compensating-The-Nut.php
guitarnutcompensation.com/
"What I've done for a number of years is to cut the fingerboard about 0.5MM short and then facet the nut so that the high E string and the D string both go back almost to the original nui position. The G string is left unfaceted and the others are placed in intermediate positions. Then I set the saddle setback according to the 12th-fret harmonic. It has been an improved system. Players consistently tell me that my guitars are more in tune than most guitars are. But I have never been fully satisfied with that solution, and I've learned just in doing this analysis that I really was not doing enough compensation at the nut."
www.proguitar.com/academy/guitar/intonation/byers-classical
hazeguitars.com/blog/guitar-hardware-school-nuts-ii-compensated-nuts
fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/nut-compensation
Hi Bryan, you should start offering this on your Customer's guitars. This is a way prettier solution for 70's Martins that have a nice patina on the top, than scooting the bridge. Much nicer than shimming the heel of the neck, as you nearly can't see it at all in the video. Well done, Bryan!
Well, I don't know how durable it is yet. Scooting the bridge back puts the bridge farther back on the X for a slightly more pre-war sound. So... we'll see. This needs more long term testing but it certainly COULD be an option and I do like it better than the neck shim, for the most part. Again, though... the intonation isn't quite as good, esp on the first few frets, as scooting the bridge to the correct scale. You can get it there but there's NO forgiveness to it.
@@Bryankimsey Yes, and as you said this can be instantly taken out and the guitar is as it was before.
Okay, this makes total sense! I have a 1979 M36 with intonation issues, I did a neck reset and noticed the problem so I tried scooting the nut back towards the headstock a tad and it just makes fretting intonation worse.. Bryan, have you heard or seen early M36's having this issue? Its really sad to hear you are leaving lutherie! Hope its just a break and you'll be back soon, your work is brilliant. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with all of us!
Haven't had very many early M's. They're one of my favorite body styles, though.
@@Bryankimsey Yea, not too many of these floating around I guess, love the body style too, not crazy about the narrow nut width and neck profile but still a comfortable guitar to play otherwise, thanks for the reply!
I would love to have that D 21 you play a lot.
I'd have thought that nut shim would mess with first position tuning, but I guess I'm wrong. U D Man!
It does a little bit, but less than no shim messes with all the intonation.
Wouldn't the notes still be sharp? Because in theory, once you hit whatever fret, its still 1/8th shorter from the fret to the saddle. Once a note is made, anything behind that fret doesnt really matter.
If that makes any sense.
Try it. You're missing the point that the distance from the OPEN string to all the frets is shorter. You tune the string open and it expects X distance to the fret. When that distance is LESS, the note tunes flat. And boom... you just compensated.
I guarantee you it works because it changed this guitar from several cents sharp at the 5th fret to dead on. Again, I have used this technique to correct FLAT intonation on some guitars.
But.... tryyyyyyy it. Just get a toothpick and shove it under the E string near the fret. You can move it around and watch the intonation change. You'll have to re-tune the open string every time you move it, of course.
Moving the bridge back makes the strings longer. Putting material after the nut makes them shorter. How can these two opposite modifications be solutions to the same problem?
Don't think of it as scale length. Think of it as moving the fingerboard, which you can also do if you want to be really invasive.
THANK YOU
Hey there! I like this idea of compensating the nut but wouldn’t it not work if you were using a capo? It would still have the same problem I would think? Please let me know your thoughts before I go ahead and try this. Thank you man!
Try it and see for yourself. Just use toothpicks or something simple to test it.
You could cut the ebony nut slots deep and fill them with colored bone dust and super glue if the ebony doesn't hold up...the glue should reinforce the wood. How about black tusq cut flat instead of ebony?
The only point of the ebony here was to demonstrate that the technique works. The BEST solution, if you're gonna use this approach is to just cut a zero fret slot. The ebony is sort of a stealth approach because it blends into the fingerboard. I've made lots of ebony nuts and they're holding up just fine so I don't have a problem with ebony. Tusq, Micarta, Richlite... all would be fine, if it matched the fingerboard. If it doesn't, might as well use a zero fret.
Hi, I'm impressed about your expertise ! I have a d41 sunburst 2013 and it's Nice ! 2 questions: I think the nut is plastic... Do you recommand to put a bone instead ? Second, when I play A at the 5th fret, the Sound is very compressed, it's seems the Sound could not go out and it is the only note that has this "issue" are you familiar with this and do you think it could be fixed by doing something on the scalopped bracing ? Thank you !
'13 should have a bone nut already.
No telling on the note.... there are a LOT of things that can affect that- pins, neck relief, action, possibly a high fret. I would look at my video on "The Next Fret Technique" and "Guitar Setup 101" and see if you can find something. I'd look at all of that first. And then the first modification I'd do would be the back braces. Again... there's a video "Shaving the rear back braces".
How would a steel spacer work? Kind of like a Zero Fret?
It would be fine as long as you could adjust the height. A zero fret would be okay, too.
Hey Bryan, Love the videos. Did you have to modify the original nut on the bottom for the spacing to allow enough room for the wood shim to seat properly?
No.... it's just sitting on the fingerboard. I shaped it to fit the radius and then glued it to the face of the nut. Never took the nut out or bothered it in any way.
I may give that a try. @@Bryankimsey Thanks.
Would a buzz fenton nut also work in this situation?
Buzz Feiten. Sure, IF it provided the necessary amount of compensation. This is not a one-size fits all thing. I had to move that ebony strip around several times to find the desired compensation. Also, the Buzz nut is intended to make certain chords sound better in the first few frets... it's not really intended to compensate for an incorrect bridge location.
Would you consider putting a Zero fret there?
Absolutely. That exactly what the ebony spacer is acting as. This way was 100% non-invasive, though. I fully intended to overhaul this D-28 and do the bridgeplate and scoot the bridge back (or use neck shims, as I show in another video). The ebony shim here was to demonstrate a simple and quick way to correct intonation and it let me play the guitar immediately. The main issue I'd have with a zero fret is that it would shorten the scale and you don't get the advantage of scooting the bridge back on the X braces. Other than that... no problem.
So you’re back on here making new videos or do you just have lots of videos still to upload?
This is the last guitar on the rack. Some of the others I posted recently were Unlisted videos I made Public.
@@Bryankimsey Are you quitting lutherie? I sure hope it's not the last guitar you'll be working on!!!!!!!
Taking a break due to "life". I hope to be back by summer 21 or so.
@@Bryankimsey A healthy break is always good. I did that with banjo playing, but coming back from that break has not been an easy thing. My fingers have stiffened up a bit. I think little Arthur might have settled in while my back was turned. lol
Awww man..............hearing you say that the shop guitars are gonna be sold in the coming future tells me this is ending soon.
I'm starting with the Authentics. They've run their course for me. I'm keeping the '72 D-18 and then either the '65 D-21 or the '75 D-35... not sure. Probably keeping the D-35 as it's more different from the 18. I was always going to sell some... since I won't be working much this spring, now's the time to generate some income from them.
@@Bryankimsey Gotcha..........
If I had the funds, I would be interested in the D28A. Do you still have the 41?
Yes, I still have D-28 '41 A. Email me at bryankimsey@gmail.com