Yes, there are LOTS of industries "out there" to sell you anything you want to buy. It doesn't necessarily mean that what they have to sell has legitimate claims. Maybe go over what *IS* snake oil in the speaker cable market versus what isn't?
Should I buy that "Miracle Spring Water" that was tested to be tap water with bleach to cure all my ailments because there is an industry surrounding such elixir "cures"? Circular logic is the best logic, because it's circular.
The problem is that he is not knowledgeable in basic electrical theory (and Im being charitable here) and cannot actually provide information on what is snake oil to begin with.
Speaker cable companies and retailers rely on subjective advertising. If they can mislead you believing they have done "all the research" thus saving you time from doing it yourself, they succeeded. This spurious presentation is a prime example. Notice product placement of his speaker cables and repetitious use of "whole industries dedicated". Maybe with 30 more iterations someone will take this at face value and reach for their wallet. SMH.
I am not an Electrical Engineer or even an Electronics Engineer but did receive a pretty dang good education in the field of electronics from the US Navy some 30 yrs ago - when we still did component level troubleshooting and I would not spend money on "special" HDMI cables. On the other hand, I did do a listening test using a Bel Canto DAC-1 and using the same DVD player, I could actually hear a difference between the TOSLINK and the coax digital inputs. I know that 1's and 0's are just 1's and 0's - but I also heard a difference and no only did I hear it, but I called over a friend to see if he could as well, and I swapped the inputs without him knowing which was which and he also heard a difference. I know that those who haven't ever tried something like this will argue but a man with an experience will never be at a disadvantage to a man who only has a theory.
This is called "Creating a solution, to a problem that does not exist" Someone will always buy something, if they can be convinced it solves a problem, even if they have no problem. Marketing 101.
Yeah that part got me to. Shark fins are believed in Chinese culture to have properties of boosting sexual potency and it is an industry....but that doesn't mean it works
I'm with you, Lars. While I am not ready to argue that cable quality does not matter, I DO call bullshit on offering up as evidence for this the fact that companies are selling a good deal of expensive cable to meet this perceived need. That's like saying that greasy hamburgers and fries are good to eat and offering up McDonald's, Burger King, and Wendy's as evidence. They do business because a LOT of people make bad decisions or are lazy, IMO, so why might not the fancy cable companies be serving a similar illusion? I, personally have never had the time to obsess over this sort of thing, and have found that my music sounds quite pleasing as is (using lamp cord for speakers, very pedestrian RCA cables to interconnect sources to amps, and running reasonably well-engineered inexpensive yet quality components - Yamaha Natural Sound receiver, pair of ADS L-810 ii speakers, Sonos Connect box.) But I'm up for easy, reasonably priced upgrades. In the case of this sort of thing, fancy cables, I do wonder and am eager to see what the OP (Danny, is that his name?) presents as valid science evidence. I had the opportunity to audition fancy cables years ago when I worked at a fairly high-end audio store (Mc', B&O, ADS, Bozak, Sonus, Denon) and really had to strain to even imagine that the connections were making a difference. Maybe the products (cables) just weren't up to snuff, I have no idea. But the experience had me pretty convinced that many so-called audiophiles might just be people who had nothing better to do than indulge a fetish or were lonely people looking for company and a common cause with other nerds of a certain flavor. I find that my listening needs are filled nicely with relatively modest equipment (at least compared to the most expensive stuff out there, which makes the price of my Volvo convertible look bargain-basement by comparison!) But my ears just might be crap, who knows?
Cables do matter, don't buy crap. I bought a pair of used 8 foot long Kimber Kables 8TC on eBay. I was replacing a pair of 8 foot long Monolith by Monoprice speaker cables 12 gauge and PE coating. They were also good. I couldn't tell the difference but the Kimber Kables are blinggier so I'm happy. The moral of the story is, don't use crap you'll be okay. A lot of good quality speaker cable will work just as well as the more expensive stuff. Sounding different does not mean sounding better. If a cable is tuned to sound a certain way, then you're buying that tuning, not a "better" cable.
If you plug a unterminated speaker wire directly into a Mic Preamp you might see a few dB of noise above the absolute floor from RF/Emf. That's in a Mic Pre, that is sensitive to millivolts. Speaker level is so much higher than that, that the same RF/Emf will literally be in the values of 100,00ths of the signal level being pushed from an amplifier. You are more likely to pick up RF/Emf from less than optimal grounding on the chassis of the amplifier than the speaker cables. The Speaker Cables are the VERY LEAST sensitive component of an audio signal chain. It's the last place I would spend extra money. Just my Opinion, do whatever makes you happy.
Absolutely agree with everything you said. First time I saw this guy he did a bunch of upgrades to different pairs of bookshelve speakers and I was impressed by his methods and testing. Every other video I have seen is just him pushing garbage like this, for sales I guess.
@Kniferide Audio People who didn't return the cables, did hear significant improvement to justifiy the cost. Why would you assume people don't have ears and like to waste money? All the legit cable companies accept returns.
Amir from AudioScienceReview (highly educated) tested a $2500 set of Audioquest cables that did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and had no provided measurements from the manufacturer just pretentious marketing, total waste of money. Same with The Audioquest Jitterbug, does nothing when tested seven ways from Sunday. I've always read home audio speaker cables really don't need shielding unless maybe its long runs or passing over lots of electrical equipment... may have to do some testing of my own. I have 2 family members that are also electrical engineers, I'll have to see what they say about all this.
They do no real science over there. They are just a propaganda machine for their belief system. They never answer the question do cables make an audible difference as they never listen to anything.
You'll recognize a real scientist based on their curiosity. People who listen and have the inquisitive mind to try and figure out why there is a difference, even if that implies they need to come up with new/additional measurement methods, build measuring equipment for the purpose etc., those are scientists. People with zero curiosity whose standard reply to anything whatsoever is "Can't be" are not only not scientists, they're completely irrational in their attempts to prove something can't be. I guess that's why the term flat-earthers is appropriate for people who will NOT go out of their way to learn something new, but claim they already know everything.
Historically speaking, there has always been a point in time at which we didn't know what we know now. I'm old enough to remember the time before we knew about jitter in digital audio, or reflections in digital cables due to incorrect terminations (RCA vs BNC for S/PDIF), to give one example. All the flat-earthers did was claim "bits are bits". Some of those refer to themselves as scientists, and presumably, some of them are still in business. Makes one wonder what their excuse might be. I'd never hire an engineer with this type of mindset.
This is a hobby, so everyone should enjoy it their own way. Respect to all sides. But in *my* view, any publication that ranks audio equipment based on how it performs in a test routine designed by the author is suspect, especially when the author does her test routine first, studies the results, and only then does a listening test. Lots of room for confirmation bias there. And it also requires lots and lots of faith that the author's test routine tests for the right thing(s).
@@michaelzoppo534 Unless they do blind or double blind tests, there is going to be expectation bias no matter what. I'm a science-minded person myself, and do recognize there are problems involved (such as in recommending gear based upon personal experience, or for that matter measurements). When it comes to critics and their opinions, one is better off knowing their bias rather than the so-called objectivism of panels. As to measurements, they're a means to an end, and as such, I don't have a problem reading someone's personal impressions as well as studying technical analysis. In reality, one will want to buy a product that is well-engineered AND sounds great, there's no contradiction there. Actually, that's precisely the problem we're faced with here: people who insist that one replaces (versus complements) the other.
Will cables make a difference, yes, in the extreme cases (lamp cord vs actual speaker cables). But building an argument on anecdotal evidence and calling those who wants relevant empirical evidence for flat earthers... Well, I guess science isn't for everyone.
@@allansh828 What's the scientific evidence behind that, any published peer reviewed articles to download? I know of articles going into detail about the the scientific aspects, but I'm open for any disputing data.
the question is, how do these Industries develop the cables, if not with science, with what else ? because if it was developed with science it must be a technical way to proof it
Circular logic warning: there being a whole industry out there does not equal proof that RF interference impacts audible sound quality. Please show evidence and do not just quote others who say that it does.
Actually, the fact that an industry exists that has many thousands of well educated, economically successful adherents does prove it exists. Your lack of trying cables that reject RFI and EMI but still claiming EMI and RFI doesn't influence sound is the circular logic.
@@paulh7798 lets see a video of someone accurately identifying which cable is doing a better job of that in a test. or just which speaker cable is being used for a particular track, with high accuracy. an actual scientific test.
A little late here but, yeah. Talk to any ham radio operator and ask about RFI coming in on cables. Quick simple fix there is coiling the cable around a iron core, similar to a toroid. Twisting wires is effective in certain areas; hence the braided filter/shielding mentioned in this video. And they (we) are not dealing with near the fidelity of a simple stereo system, let alone the level of fidelity that Danny here is dealing with. So, right-on Danny.
The beauty of this hobby is that you can make your own decision about cables. No matter what anybody says, electrical engineer or enthusiast, try the subject cables in your own system. If you like what they do, keep them. If not, return them. Seems much simpler than these never ending circular arguments.
@Douglas Blake Like Hai Karate cologne getting you laid? Being a Marlboro Man makes you more appealing? Wearing Air Jordans makes you jump higher? Or my all time fave (albeit quite obscure), Thrush side pipes ... if I simply put Thrush side pipes on my Vette, I'll get more action than I'll know what to do with. I know, I know; "ok boomer" Thanks (btw; replace 𝘸𝘢𝘴𝘵𝘦 with 𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘯𝘥, it's more palatable...)
I found enormous amounts of switching noise radiating from LED light tape, the drivers being housed in a metal, grounded box....also I've found some LED lamps that make digital radios cut out when the light is switched on. It's clear that high frequencies can run around analogue and digital audio circuits and create inter-modulation and other effects and now that we have so many switching power supplies and microwave coms, the issues are bigger than ever before.
Absolutely agree. Those are good examples. I have ferrite cores around all cables to LED lights and dimmed LED lights for exactly that reason - I want to reduce the impurities they inject back into the mains power circuits. And ferrite cores on equipment power cables to reduce mains-borne RFI as much as practicable. Also shielded mains cables to metal-cased power outlet bars. RFI is not our friend!
@@RobWhittlestone - agreed, I think that if RF induced in loudspeaker cable is having an impact on the output of an amplifier then you need to look at the way the grounding has been done inside that amplifier and all the way back to a solid earth point. I don’t believe in a “flat earth”, I believe in a “GOOD earth”.
Keep going. I know cables don't make a difference at my level of equipment. I realized that when I watched the first video you did. Fly fishing is the same, people only know by the level or how well their experience is. Theories run rampant, doing proves everything. You helped me realize that sound equipment is the same thing. It's what level you have, got it, makes sense. I was learning how to cast a fly line 90 feet. A friend said everyone else says you don't need to cast beyond 30 feet. I said they say that because they can't cast further then 30 feet. My equipment isn't at a level yet to hear the difference, thank you, it cleared up a lot of what is being said. You know because of your experience. I'm the only guy I know that can cast 90 feet, I try to get others to learn but they don't get why it would make a difference, it does dramatically. I hope I get the same out of what audio gear I have. Peace
No hate, honest question. What role do you think double blind testing should have? Do you think it could/should show a statistically significant effect?
One part of me is screaming "snakeoil!!BS!!" and the other part of me is sitting here and wondering how I could try to prove myself cables matter. In my opinion so far they matter in regards to aesthetics and impedance but everythig else has to prove to my ears
With different core materials, you change the sound of the speaker. 100% silver for example, gives less bass and some say more detailed highs. The bass i have witnessed with my ears, the highs not so sure. But then i ask myself, do i have the right speakers/amp combination? Why do i need hundreds or thousands of dollars to "correct my setup? For example, a friend of mine bought B&W speakers, looks great and sounds very good. Only a a little tame in the low freq. He bought a Linn Class D(plus?) amp, again not so bold in the lows and on top of that silver wiring. You can imagine what happens; 1+1+1 = -3Dba (or more) for the low freq. Told him that as gently as i could, week later he shows me new cables (silver/copper) combo and a carpet under the table. Bass was back! Now he thinks a better powercord will make things better...0_o
If all your components is of high quality, and you have a bad speaker wire or a bad rca, changing them to a good cable gives a clear and very noticable upgrade in sound quality.
Actually it's a spherical shape with a slight bulge along the equator. But definitely not flat or square. I've been building audio and power cables for years and from what I know, Danny's design for speaker cable will perform as one of the best bangs for the buck out there
There'is only one way to finish this discussion. You have gears to mesures speakers. So you take mesurements for the same speakers, same gears, but with different cable.
The negative feedback path of a amplifier does not discriminate between returning signal and RF. The RF enters the feedback loop and the amplifier applies “corrections” to eliminate distortion however, since RF was not in the original signal, RF creates spurious feedback corrections that add distortion to the amplifier’s output. If you can reject or filter out the RF, the amplifier loses the random distorting input from RF noise in its environment.
Even if one is going to use side by side stranded conductor wire for speaker cable instead of twisted, woven, or braided geometry because it is cheaper I would suggest not using home depot cable because it is copper clad aluminum. Aluminum is not a good conductor and in longer runs will obviously change the response of what the speaker was designed to sound like. Furthermore, at high current levels for extended periods it will act like a heat filament. That is why you would never want to use copper clad aluminum ethernet cable if you're using it in a power over ethernet application.
@@IliyaOsnovikov I get that alot of us spend hundreds not thousands on speakers and if you do spend 5k on speakers you are probably willing to spend a few hundred more on cables getting every bit of performance from them.
@@toecutterjenkins Do you have any idea how expensive are those cables that Danny has promoted? As I recall, some of those MIT speaker cables are sold for $10000-15000.
@@IliyaOsnovikov the cables he sells are 9 dollars a foot for at the lower end. You have to assemble them yourself. Again use what you like no one is forcing you to buy wire. I agree. There is no way any wire can justify a 10k-15k price tag, nor a speaker justify a 500k price. These are toys for the wealthy.
"I'm not trying to sell anything." He says one big roll of speaker cable in each hand. Coincidentally speaker cable that is linked right below. The more people believe this stuff, the more you sell. The same as the other companies you are mentioning. These videos has nothing to do with teaching or science. It's a commercial.
Unless you have studied electronics and/or electrical systems, how do you guys know how to judge what he's saying?. You should do the test your selves before you judge someone's statement and do the research for your selves! He's (Danny) been doing this for a while now, so he probably knows a little something about the subject worth listening to.
Cables definitely make a difference... But it's not necessarily a clear science either. The same cables will sound different with different electronics. The easiest proof of the differences cables make in my opinion is car audio. I do quite a bit of car audio work and can tell you without a doubt that what you may consider "high end" in home audio will not make the cut in a car audio install. Car audio environments are incredibly noisy with bad cables. I'm looking at you AudioQuest!
Love your video Danny. I repair and refurbish speakers here in the UK but not to the level you do 🙂. That word you were struggling with is pronounced 'Disco tech'. Keep up the good work. We all learn a great deal for your insights. Cheers. Matt
The human body acts as an RF antenna. The only way to make sure it doesn't interfere with your audio equipment (ears) is to cover yourself with a space blanket and to twist your legs and arms (counter-rotating if you're flexible enough).
I agree completely. I got into making cables because I can solder above normal ability. The place most of my soldering was learned was Intel production and prototyping. A friend had a friend who needed a solderer who could do both heavy and ultra fine soldering. The owner had me build a 7 meter set of XLR interconnects that takes about 8 hours. He then had me add them in a running system in series with the cables in use. My only expectation was they met his standards so I could contract more work. I was very surprised that the music improved by getting clearer. That went against what I had been taught since High School. Since then I have had to re evaluate some of what I was taught because it does not hold up to reality. The biggest bunch of nay sayers I have talked with has been engineers. I find their "if you can't measure it, it don't exist amusing." Keep up the good work and Thanks. I seriously need a CLIO tutorial. I started this in my 50's. So much to learn and comprehend.
This happens a lot, "I added another run of cable extending my older stuff and it sounded clearer than before". this cable is better for sound etc... no you simply reseated some connectors in your install that may have been loose or rubbed off some corrosion that caused a better connection on some unrelated to you cable's run.
It remains comical to me that you call people who disagree with you flat-earthers as an insult, claiming that they demand proof. In truth, flat-earthers don’t want scientific proof, only to further prove their own feedback loop and strengthen their belief system. I don’t disagree with you fundamentally, just the way that you treat this conversation, also resorting to calling pseudoscience “science”, constantly referring to human hearing and testimonials among solid arguments. At the end of the day, it’s up to each person to decide. I realize that you’re trying to educate, and I appreciate that. What I don’t like is the pointing of fingers and demeaning some folks, who, while they may not be doing the most practical tests, still have the right to argue their point and to not be considered “less than” any given status or title, simply due to dissonance between your different operating methodologies. 🙃
@Lee Roy Jones I honestly can’t tell from your angry incoherency what you’re trying to say. The scientific method in its basic form is observation, formulation of a question or questions, a hypothesis, testing/experimentation and conclusion. Anyone can perform tests using the scientific method with their own backgrounds and biases, tools, insights, and - yes - ignorance. Nothing is truly concrete, and with something as subjective as tastes in audio, results for each individual differ wildly. Being in one “camp” or another quite literally denotes primitive thinking. We can all learn from one another. Thusly, my only real criticism of Danny’s approach was his use of strong and aggressive language toward certain “camps”. A lot of people form cult thinking. Most human circles form cults; it’s really a matter of wether or not it is a constructive or destructive cult. I just don’t find aggressive language in a presentation to be very helpful. Sort of like how you attacked me for some reason. We don’t know each other, I have no idea what your story is, and you couldn’t care less about mine. So why the anger? A waste of energy. Cables matter. Everything matters. To whom and how much is an extremely complex and largely subjective matter. The synergy of a system is unique to every single system on the planet. Peace
Interesting.. He repeats himself over and over stating that he is "not trying to sell you anything".. yet you re state his opinion by saying "its up to each person to decide.".. Duh.. He just said that. As far as his language or words he uses.. And? So what its the way he speaks or his demeanor.. aren't you being condescending? and hypocritical as well.. I'm just saying.. don't say you don't like how someone talks and then talk shit about it.. This is America.. you can say or think what ever you want and do it vocaly. You as well.. I happily acknowledge that.. But Hypocrisy is Hypocrisy.. SFMF
My big issue is at what point do these things start to make a difference? Could a $1,500 system (amp, speakers, source, DAC) be improved with these high-end cables or do the differences only show up in a $15,000+ system? Thanks!
If there's audible noise being added to the signal, since cables can act as antenna's, wouldn't the simplest test just be to hook up your system and listen to it whilst not sending a signal? I mean, if you're not sending a signal, there should still be a signal from the cable acting as an antenna according to your explanation, or am I getting that wrong?
That would be incorrect. You have to demodulate that signal in order to hear it. And in some cases that is what happens and radio stations are actually heard through the system. The problem is that the demodulated signal affects the audio signal that we do hear.
@Douglas Blake Yet, contributors here and myself have heard demodulated radio stations play through systems plane as day. And the effects are clearly audible. You guys are grasping for strays to hold onto beliefs that cables don't matter.
@@dannyrichie9743 - audible demodulated radio interference would generally come from input stages where it gets significantly amplified. RF injected into the output stage of an amplifier does not get amplified - it gets shunted to earth through the (low) output impedance of said amplifier. The only way (?) I could see for induced RF at the output to be amplified is if it makes its way through the ground plane to the input stage - in which case the amplifier designer (or customer) has messed up with the earthing.
It would be better to do a blind A/B test with Danny to see if he can hear the differences. I find it odd that he calls people that use science to disprove him flat earthers when it’s he rejecting science.
It is curious why people like Danny don't just post a video of themselves completing a blind listening test and prove that they statistically can hear a difference. It would go a whole lot further in "educating" the rest of us. He would be able to hawk his speaker wire kits even more! Seems like such a no brainer move based on what he's preaching to all of us. Wonder why he doesn't do it?? 😜
@@MrDannydjmix2 the good system response is how I know it's impossible to reason with you. If a difference exists and is audible you will hear it in a normal audio system as well. It may be a bit louder or softer, but it shouldn't be gone! If it's on the frequency response it's in the sound. How do you think speakers work? Please watch this video in its entirety and really try to understand it and then we can continue this back and forth: ua-cam.com/video/ZyWt3kANA3Q/v-deo.html
Kimber has been around for ever. I heard my first 4c cables at my friends house, when we were 16. (40 years ago) What a difference from the 16ga cable he was using originally. I'm not an engineer, but there is a reason data cable, and other cables are using helical pairs, or other twisting methods. Less noise, less RFI, etc.. These types of cables do make a difference. Whether or not you believe it, is entirely your prerogative.
The braiding and counter rotating geometry may be described as a "faraday cage." I make all my own cables which use a double helix geometry, which is an effective, and efficient way to shield cables, and minimize noise in your system.
For those who don't understand this comment, it's not really a Faraday cage, more like twisted pair conductors arranged in braids of twisted pairs in a counter-rotating helix. Any electrical engineer who thinks twisted pair conductors are snake oil doesn't know about transmitting electrical signals and noise control.
If you don’t look any further... signal transmission is a big issue in a lot of industries. And also an issue in audio. But if you don’t want to look into it that’s fine. But just for the heck of it: try a copper loudspeaker cable that is oxidized (gone all green). Sure as hell the term “OFC” won’t apply. Try to enjoy the music with that one. In other words: metallurgy makes a difference, and geometry as argued here in this video makes a difference.
This goes along with the video you made about crossovers and the tiny gauge wire manufactures use inside a speaker. I emailed you about my RTi150's and I think I am going to rebuild the crossovers myself. Your videos are so informative and helpful. Thank you .
It is strange that people in the radio, music recording and media production industries don't use basic bell wire and or cheap interconnects...they do often use cables like van damme ofc or belden or morgami and similar and upwards, but still in hifi people argue over cables. The point is nobody is forcing people to buy high end stuff, but there is a base quality of cables that will definitely improve performance and reduce noise and interference. But once you have got a general cable... the rest is more about the subtle changes and flavours that may or may not suit the users hearing and needs. But hey if people are happy with there bell wire and basic interconnects that's great too! But if things all sounded the same...we would not need or have so many different source amp and speakers options (even copper wound transformers can sound very different)... after all they all do the same job,- of picking up amplifying and reproducing signal through an electrical process. Yet can sound very different, which we can understand and accept. I think the main problem for cables for most is understanding and justifying how and why a cable costs $1000's while others a few bucks...as they both are seen as just strands or cores of copper, silver or ?, Sheathed in insulation and protection materials. So find it difficult to accept the value in it. But will perhaps be happy to spend thousands on a new amp because it has loads of components in a sturdy looking box and there is a sense that more work, skill and value goes into it. But equally while there are good sources, amps and speakers there are also pretty bad ones too. (mind you most are pretty good these days). But the real truth is... there is no such thing as perfect sound reproduction system...and even if there was... some wouldn't like it...as it's a personal taste thing. So if you can't hear any difference between cables then please be happy... but also be respectful that others can and do ..and if it sounds better and the price is right they will upgrade. I can't personally say I'm convinced they are getting value for money with expensive cables...but I did demo loads which have different flavours but prefered van damme (ofc) and belden tinned ...which are good enough for me and cheap, which I the make to custom lengths as I hate un-needed spaghetti.
Absolutely. I completely rewired my entire studio with Mogami cable. It was like someone had removed a blanket from my speakers. I wasn't really a believer until then. I knew cable quality was part of the equation, but always figured it was negligible.
I think a lot of pros (and I do this too) will spend on decent cables is because they are more reliable and durable than the cheapest possible thing. I don't think a dirt cheap generic plastic XLR connector sounds worse than a good one, not in any way that might be noticeable in a real world scenario. I'll still buy the expensive connector because of better build quality, corrosion resistance, durability, serviceability...
@@federicoprestipersonally I think it's a lot like hifi ....as some are more interested in sound and so will research, study, look into reviews, demo and buy equipment and connectors that fits their requirements and budgets....while others may buy the most expensive things without knowing why.. while other may buy cheap and cheerful and be happy... and other will steadily upgrade their equipment and connectors if they hear differences and improvements....and have money to invest. But good Belden, Mogami, or Van damme cables are all pretty good (and reasonably priced) starting points
I watched the video out of curiosity because my 61 year old ears do not absolutely catch any noise or hiss in my rig so the issue doesn't regard to me.I am not sure that happens because my hearing is a bit tired or because my rig is perfect even though it is a budget one hooked together with amazon cables.I'd loved to hook it with some expensive cables and have some A and B test and tell any difference.
I had a pair of speakers with a bass reflex vent and when l tapped the woofer it boomed for a half second after. I converted them to passive radiator and now the tapped woofer stops instantly. Lucky strike and the bass is way improved.
@@davidlong1786 It was definitely an improvement in the sense that i liked it way more. I made the passive radiators out of old drivers with the magnets bumped off. Then I tweaked the weight till it sounded (what I reckon) the best. By using blue tack as weight it was easy to add and subtract weight.
AQ are some of the worst offenders for bogus science claims on their cables. Kimber actually posts their measurements of their cables, AQ absolutely does not.
@@OHMAudioChannel Claims or not, are they bad cables? I havent heard bad AQ cables personally, compared to for example Monster, which are trash in many cases.
@@smjerbetsk they well built, no doubt but they don’t provide a meaningful upgrade over other well built and designed cables from other manufacturers. Their product descriptions are often filled with unsubstantiated claims and/or pseudoscience theories. Monster cables was a marketing company that sold A/V cables.
@@ggroch You guys kill me. You guys don't even understand what "double blind" means and how it is not even possible nor meaningful in any way. Stay tuned.
@@dannyrichie9743 In this cable nonsense, double blind means that the person being tested and the person administering the test don't know which cable is which in the experiment. It's purpose is to prevent any bias from the person administering the test from influencing the results. It has been demonstrated to exist and has famously caused there to be false conclusions from single blind testing in the past. It's not a difficult concept to wrap your brain around. You really believe you can't setup a test where a third party labels the cables alphabetically, wraps them all in a similar outer covering that makes them indistinguishable from one another, and has the same terminations so that the person switching them doesn't know and can't tell which is which? Something like that's "impossible" to you? Please Danny, sounds like more excuses. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer-expectancy_effect
Please explain/show how RFI/EMI affects amplifiers. Or provide links. I'm trying to understand the technical reasons for this. I have some limited knowledge of how amps work but it's rudimentary so references would be appreciated.
@Douglas Blake Just because you don't get it doesn't make it a fantasy. And why go here? Why talk about cables? My customers ask for and about them all the time. My goal is for my customers to be able to hear and enjoy the level of performance that I do. And yes, my system is one of the top level systems in the country. And not just because I design great speakers. It is the set up, the room treatment, the gear and yes, even the cables. Everything matters.
@@dannyrichie9743 hey Danny, can you film an example of how RFI/EMI affects an amplifier based on different cables? I'm really trying to understand this but so far it's not clicking for me. Also, if DOES happen, is it just poor amp design or does it affect all amps?
Its fairly simple. Every amplifier can pickup RF wireless signals from the cables that are connected to it, because the cables can act as antennas. Once inside your equipment, these RF signals can be amplified and detected by non-linearities in the circuits. Often the non-linearities are actually caused by the RF signals driving amplifier stages into saturation. The detected signals are now what we call "baseband", that is they are the original signals before they were modulated onto RF carriers. Amplifier outputs are less susceptible to this than the inputs; that should be obvious. However, strong interference can propagate backwards through an amplifier, especially if it employs a lot of negative feedback. These effects have been problematic in large systems where speaker lines run hundreds of feed. The usual solution is to run shielded cable and or conduit, and to avoid things like fluorescent lights, stage lighting panels, HVAC motors, and anything else that has strong EMI potential.
Just because there is an industry doesnt provide any proof. Guess what else had an industry....snake oil. Now I'm trying to keep my mind open. I'm looking forward to the double blind testing. Although I'm skeptical on this subject I do enjoy your work. So thank-you. Have a good one.
so was i until i installed the cable used in this video.and what a difference compared to by van Damme speaker cable i had fitted at the time.. it sounds much more clearer now.
Snake oil wasn't an industry. Health care is an industry. Snake masquerades as a health care product. It did not make for an industry. That's a false equivalency The existence of an entire industry does indeed indicate a desire or need by consumers. Some priducts might be snake oil, certainly. But let's not be to cavalier with the word industry here.
@@kaufmanat1 I was referring to industry in its most basic term. The word industry can be used to describe a department or branch of a specific industry. Ill be more clear. Audio cables are an industry. Overly expensive cables is a subsect of that industry. Just like snake oil was a subsect of the medicine industry. Miracle cure...Miracle cables. I have been involved in designing more than one amplifier. The problem with cables is always going to come back to " the whole audio chain" from the source to the speaker drivers. Like I said. Ill keep my mind open. But just because there is demand for a product does not mean said product does what it claims to do.
@@iansalmond726 Guys like you crack me up. Tho i serioussly doubt your in possession of a decent sound system with the way your describing things, if you are and your having this attitude, the funny part is you might have a good/expensive system that potentially have a really degraded sound, and you have no clue what your missing out on. So lets just leave all you "snake oil" guys be and enjoy our systems with great cables with clear crisp highs and tight juicy bass while you sit there talking about snake oil lol
@@smjerbetsk Wow...talk about jumping to conclusions. I've been in the audio industry for over 20 years. I've personally listened to hundreds of system. I've demoed systems costing 7 figures. I've worked with people at a major player in the cable industry (who are located in Utah). I've had custom amplifiers designed for a client (company located in the Netherlands) and had discussions with their engineers. We even have an electrical engineer on staff. I've designed and installed systems for clients that had no budget. I've also done modest systems that sounded better than systems costing significantly more. I've probably forgotten more on this subject than most people know. There is nothing wrong with being skeptical. This is a tough subject. There are so many variables. from room, to source equipment, to the very source (music itself). We've run countless studies on where people should spend there money. I can tell you right now. We don't have a degraded system. Could it be better? Sure, but what is better? Should you spend your money on cables or a better set of speakers? I've listened to expensive cables in our audio chain. And almost all who have heard it with/without those cables didn't or were not sure they could hear a difference. Not to mention if it was even an upgrade. Like I said I'm waiting for his info. I know enough to know that he has a vast amount of knowledge as well. I'd like to know why he has the opinion he does. Maybe I'm wrong. That being said, some of the biggest and most respected people in the audio world also agree with me. I feel comfortable with my position.
I am with you Danny!!!! Keep the video's going....Let's kick it up another notch...Since my hobby is to Recap/Upgrade my own gear..How about a video on Recapping Crossovers with better Film caps?
It could be interesting if you would do measurements on your braided cables vs. similar gauge traditional speaker cables, same length and amplifier into either a speaker load or resistor dummy load. FFT plot, 20Hz-20kHz. Three values should define any speaker cable; resistance, inductance and capacitance per unit length. Wondering if you have these numbers for your braided cable?
Correct me if im wrong but I think these differences is quite hard to measure. Im not at all in doubt theres big differences in bad/good/different cables from experience, and I wld love to see it measured if possible but I dont think theres tests that will easily show these differences.
@@smjerbetsk I work in telecommunication field and every cable we purchase comes with data sheet which includes all electrical properties such DC resistance, impedance, inductance, capacitance and VoP. Manufactures test those cables before they ship the to us and we retest them upon arrival. Sure, you need to have proper tools for that but it's not some kind of voodoo magic or "rocket science". If I can't measure those things and can't check them against industry benchmarks then I don't trust it and wouldn't buy those cables. Period. The same applies to audio cables. No data sheets, no benchmarks then why to bother? DC resistance in audio cables is the least of the problem and it's negligible. A regular 10 AWG has around 3.3 ohms resistance per 1000 meters (~3280ft) Therefore 3 meter (~10ft) speaker cable has R=0.00984 ohms while your speakers are rated between 4 to 8 ohms. It`s 1:400 and 1:800 ratio respectively. Yes, you can measure it but can't hear it 😉
I thought it was great. He just confirmed what I was showing. He is still drawing a conclusion (no audible effect) based on his beliefs (no science). But hey, at least he's watching and if he sticks around he might learn something.
@@dannyrichie9743 so what is the science that high frequency RF are audible? The same science the earth is flat I guess... Sorry but you are coming across terribly...
I agree that well-made cables make a difference. I made my own RCAs years ago and we could hear the difference as I completed each pair. Where I draw the line is at these jewelry cables that cost tens of thousands of dollars. Sorry but audible improvement is one thing, fashion is another!
@@tupuhumuhumunukunukuapuaa3093 I would say that depends of the company making it. Shunyata, AudioQuest, and Kimber all have well proven, honest track records. Plus dozens and dozens of positive reviews in Stereophile,The Absolute Sound, and elsewhere.
Actually you never want to ad an inductions or impedance filter in your signal path. Especially not before the amplifier. This will restrict the dynamic range. Some of the few that has done research on this issue is Ansuz cables. What they have done is they have developed an active noise suppression board included outside the cable. It works by sampling the noise transients and generating the counter transients actively. Almost like noise cancellation except this is active. So it's not directly a part signal path. Therefore they can work on reducing the inductance and impedance to almost zero. And that allows the dynamics to come through and opens everything up
A balanced connection is preferable "before the amplifier" with some low pass filter (as a part of an amplifier schematic). Any twisted cable is good enough for this. As for speaker connection cables, there are so many marketing BS as well as engineering solutions, that it's hard to say where a truth is. But Danny is right when he talks about cable to negative feedback loop influence. If we take this signal directly from a point where an output transistor and a cable connect, we won't be able to separate a cable noise and transistor distortions. Other solutions will add something to a signal path (to make this separation possible). Besides, a good cable can be connected to any amplifier.
@@sc0or A balanced cable is good if the output buffer is made correctly for balanced operation. Many just adds an extra Op-amp for this option meaning extra components into the signal path. In this case the an unbalanced cable will usually sound the best. So the proper way is the try both if both connections are available. My power amp only has a feedback loop as a part of in the input buffer. The output stage has no feedback loop. So theoretically it should be less sensitive to noise as explained in the video
@@jwester7009 Good choice! I also prefer no negative feedback amplifiers. Properly built hey sound amazing. I cured THD sickness some time ago -) But 99% of amplifiers have a global negative feedback loop. These cables are for them I think.
I have to say that I am very happy with Canare star quad when it comes to cost and performance. I use the starquad on my interconnects and speakers. I've compared it with other cables and there is always a difference. Even my USB cable is from wireworld...it made a difference. They actually show the cross section for each cable. Geometry does matter. If you can't hear the difference then you either have too much wax in your ears or you don't know what you are listening for. As for audioquest I am not a fan because they are solely a marketing company
All amps have negative feedback. Some use global, some local to the amplification stage. An amp without feedback is an oscillator. Speakers cable are connect to low impedance loads from even lower impedance amplifiers. You would need miles of cable to pickup noise. The low impedance load and output of the amp will act as a drain to this noise you are so concerned with.
Clearly digital transmissions can be heard on audio cable. My speaker cable used to pick up my old cell phone. It was a staticky shuffle beat whenever my phone was pinging the network. I have super high efficiency horns, so that's a big reason, but the noise certainly gets on the line. When I used to record with a classical ensemble we all had to keep our phones off of the stage for the same reason, the mics would pick up the static. It wasn't enough to have them on silent. I don't think Danny's points here are very persuasive here, but my conclusion is that cables matter. But I have cheap cable because it doesn't matter as much as some other stuff and I'm not made of money.
@Douglas Blake As good a place/person to get an opinion (or hell, maybe even a fact) . So if this interference is being picked up by the speaker cable and can be heard in the speaker surely we'd be able to hear it all the time? The fact that we can't implies that the interference is picked up by the electronics and amplified, not by a bit of wire! Thoughts?
For f sake, why don't you actually show the noise that's being picked up by the speaker from "bad" cables. Measure the output of the speaker itself and compare that using different cables. Is that so hard? That would debunk ANY argument.
Because it doesn't change the speaker output. At least not in measuring amplitude. It doesn't work that way. It's like this. If you are talking to someone in a crowded cafeteria, the noise levels of other people talking doesn't change the volume level of your voice.
@Douglas Blake No, speakers can measure the same in every way and still sound very different. We proved that a long time ago. Check out this one: ua-cam.com/video/lmsMGILAYvk/v-deo.html
@@dannyrichie9743 I don't understand how comparing speakers that are different is justification for your beliefs. The frequency response from these clips has been extracted and analyzed before for comparison. They sound slightly different because they are slightly different. But you knew that already. Funnier then that, you guys accidently labeled A & B incorrectly in one of the examples! Why didn't anyone notice?? You continue to mislead people. Evidence: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/capacitor-upgrade-in-crossover-you-cant-handle-the-truth-part-3.12555/
@@LouGuido Ha, ha, ha, how funny. I did not know that their panties were in such a wad over there that they would go to such great lengths to disprove anything that conflicts with their beliefs. And they think that a huge difference in clarity, detail, imaging, spaciousness, and sound stage layering is all because of a super slight difference in a measured amplitude from a uploaded UA-cam file. That is super funny, but I still feel bad for them that they are that lost. Wow! The only people being mislead are the people that listen to that dribble on that site. That is a total disinformation forum.
Im so happy to be one of those people who enjoy the sound of a good cable. And just for the record, A "Good" cable is a cable that makes the audio system perform at its best! Love your videos Danny :-)
@@Zenos174 ..If people only could get to read what you called me in your first reply before editing it... Well, I refuse to sink to that level of shame myself, So I will do my best to explain once again that the human ears/hearing is more complex than the manmade Oscilloscopes and other meassuring devices when it comes to analyzing the actual sound coming out of a audio system... Here goes nothing: "Measuring is not listening, But listening is the only way to measure good Sound" -Roy Willy Urdshals.
@@Zenos174 -We don't receive wisdom, We must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us- And with that in mind, I would suggest that you try out different types of cables and find out for yourself :-)
@@Zenos174 Apology accepted Bob, We are only humans :-) When it comes to the price of cables, The truth is that in many cases they are not worth the price, And a DAC can be a far better upgrade. We might seem "Poles Apart" at first glance, But in reality we speak the same language, And we even got the same goal in mind : The best sounding system for the money spent ... Different approach thats all ;-)
@@Zenos174 There are people that dont believe components can influence the sound enough to be significant, but every little change of cable lenght even will bring some kind of change, togeather, its not significant, its the only thing that matters about sound... The chain analogy in sound chain is not straight forward as a metal chain, so the weakest link will not allways be the auditory problem, but you can easily annihilate the high end sistem sound by just changing the speaker wire or whatever you change with cheap thing, you will hear the effects, so yes, cable is as important as anything, it just depends if you are happy with your sound sistem performance... If you seek fidelity, decay, low jitter or else, you need well designed device with high quality of every single component inside... This channel is great for researching that kind of stuff
It would be interesting to have you and the Audioholics guys have a discussion. I think the ultimate test is to listen after all the measurements are done. I have yet to see measurements coorelated with listening quality.
I watched video #1 and I did think it was a strange way to show a speaker cables ability to improve sound but I did not dismiss it. I know that twisted pairs and shielding should help I just don’t know what difference it will make to my ears. I was hoping you would have found a dirty system and measured the speaker output to display on a graph then replace the basic wires with top spec speaker cable then retest and over lay the graphs to show the audible difference. Looking forward to a 3rd video 🤔🧐 A quick question is the speakers sensitivity going to make a difference? Example is a higher sensitivity speaker more likely to make any unwanted noise more audible be a low sensitivity speaker.
What I did is put all my cables (HDMI, RCA, power cords and speaker wire) in the freezer for 24 hours. Than I put them in my Traeger Ironwood smoker and smoked them on low at 165 degrees for 10 hours on the super smoke setting. A combination of Hickory and Mesquite pellets were used. I’m telling you, that by the end of the 10 hours, I was so hungry that I ate all the cables! I wasn’t prepared for what happed next. When I farted and burped both seemed to resonate and project more and had a midrange that sounded warm and buttery. The smoked HDMI cable made my eyes have a pixel count so high, I could see all the way to Jupiter without the use of a telescope! No more carrots for me! What do you know! Cables do make a difference! 🤣 This comment is for entertainment purposes only and is purely satirical, highly sarcastic!
I'm one of those people who has a EE degree. If the tests you were part of were fair and blind, then I suppose that's some data. You may have a point that some amplifiers are more sensitive than others. But here's what I don't understand. You can very easily listen to an emply signal on a system. That's essentially your noise floor, right? I feel like if you have an setup sensitive to present EMI/RFI then that simple test would prove that out. You could even ramp up the gain to listen to the noise floor. If it's nothing audible, I feel like any of these effects are moot for that system.
Also, I found the casual insinuation that digital signals are fragile to EMI/RFI noise disingenuous. Bits do flip. This is known. But it's not nearly as common as you insinuate. And for this test, you really don't need to listen to anything. Just stream a giant file across UBS and do a hash check on the source and the copy. The percentage of loss can be easily quantified. If it's nothing, or a handful of bits (if there is no error correction when streaming over USB), it simply can not be something worth caring about.
@Douglas Blake yeah, I mean, I think bad arguments are really made by people on both sides. It's just not a dialog of much substance. I keep on watching these cable/interconnect videos hoping someone actually tries to address the things I brought up in my response. But instead they just fall back to the same arguments. Not sure how much the incentive to monetize their channels with click bait affects this lack of dialog.
I thought we were talking about speaker cables? 100% copper is 100% copper. Either it works right or it doesn’t. Again, you need to do the coat hanger vs expensive speaker cable.
I remember when Paul McGowan was building the new PS audio building they installed all the LED lights and they had an issue with that as well because they were causing so much noise. They had to go change out all of their lighting because it was affecting in a negative way.
This is actually an RF interference issue. If you use speaker wire that has large runs of the conductors by themselves, or does not have a uniform RF impedance long its length, it will pick up RF noise. I live around 500 feet from a 10 kW commercial AM broadcast transmitter, and I have to be careful with cable and speaker runs, or I will get AM broadcast material in the audio. Properly run 2-conductor copper speaker cable, though, is fairly RF tight and there is no trace of the AM, even on a scope provided they're terminated properly.
In my younger days still living with my parents. I used to have a good audio system setup in my room. Sounded great until my father turned to his HF radio's he's stil a radio amateur back then builded big amps with 1000 watts on 80meter radio band. As soon as he get his voice into that radio from hell I couldn't listen to my audio set anymore. The antenna was 35 meters up to the roof of the flat building. It even came over the power 220v and over the loadspeakers cables it distorted the signal. Even my mom couldn't watch the TV set. Now this maybe a extreem case but now I'm 40 years later living on my own nice house etc etc and a much beter sound system. But still if I use regular speaker wire and change it back to a good quality twisted audio cable. It's like an on and off switch with the sound stages. I know your right. Keep up the nice video's I'll watch them.
Your description of Ham Radio interference is undoubtedly true...but the distortion you heard was not from the speaker cables inside the TV. TV's receive their signals from radio frequency receivers, so of course they can be interfered with by high power radio transmitters. RF signals in no way interfere with audio cables or speakers which are not capable of reproducing ultra high frequency radio waves.
One Kilo watt at that frequenties spitt into everything. I know. But I didn't hear the CQ calling or other amateur sounds, no it distorted the sound stage you hear all instruments, true but direction and where sounds are in the listening area where numb. My father stopped transmitting and bang soundstage is back. If the power is so great at 1 Kilowatt then it distort the LF audio. Well oké in highend and with all kinds of computer noises, adapters in wall sockets and so on the amount of distortion is much less offourse but if I test it with normal copper wire shit cable of 50 cents a meter and compare it with a descent priced twisted audio cable the differance is there. That's what I experience.
Ok, I'll start by saying I'm still generally skeptical of a lot of cable claims (especially from "industry" sources who, yes, are selling stuff), BUT... a quick anecdote to explain why the "we don't hear MHz" thing is true but wrong about The Issue With Noise: Years ago, an old gf had one of those cheapo record-player-in-a-box things I think they sell at like, Target now. One quiet night, I suddenly start wondering what that rhythmic noise is that I'm hearing in the dark. Party in the neighborhood? No, it doesn't get louder near the window... it's coming from... the plugged-in but turned-off record player. Closer... it's the needle (stylus, whatever shut up, nerds). What's the sound it's making? It's... "tsk, tsk, tsk-tsk, tsk.... Escucha a Ciente-cinco Siete Regeton y Mas!" Something (the tone arm I'm guessing?) was exactly the right length to pick up the local 105.7 radio station crystal clear, and whatever power leakage there was in the system was vibrating the needle, not at 105.7 MHz, but at the KHz-range frequency of the electromagnetic modulations centered around 105.7 MHz. Like, exactly how FM radio works.
This makes me want to test TP cables like cat 6 to use for some tests but 5p be honest I used lamp cables to speakers for a long time and can't hear anything different, but as I work with Computer networks I have some sense of interference ain Coax but even old TP cables. I even know of a Coax network close to an airport that had failed shielding and acted as an antenna caused the radar and all other traffic on the coax cable to get interference, I think there is sense and logic to what he explains on this video. But if I can hear this difference I don't think my kids already damaged my hearing, but I will try to braid some descent cable and see, have new speakers and amplifier coming soon so testing needs to be done :)
I was hoping this video would clear up or correct some of the issues with the old clip, but it was actually worse. Mr. Richie simply doubles down on his claims from the old video, and asks us to go to speaker cable company websites and drink their Kool Aid. Disappointing. Mr. Richie, I asked you to do this video in my last comment, but I will repeat it here: Connect the different speaker cables into your audio system, and show us, with an audio analyzer, how the audiophile cables provide lower noise than the twisted pairs or zip cords. It is a simple and convincing test. If your claims are demonstrable, you should have no problem showing them.
Yes of coarse it’s a antenna but it’s matter of scale you measure the rf micro volts za micro vile is one millionth of a volt so the spear dosent react but does affect some power amp design many amp have a zobble network that isolate the circuit from any FN noise
@@mysock351C Sadly, real Engineers also get things wrong as do scientists and doctors and very few of them can fully agree on things accept hardcore scientific FACTS (look at the Covid debacle where very Tom Dick and Harry is a Specialist)...but we now live in a society where many people out there wants to be spoon fed with information and lack the basic skills of doing their own research.
@@EasyFold007 Having parents that are both doctors (and treated covid patients) the whole covid thing was politically loaded from the start and used in very manipulative ways. But that's a story for another day. But _rarely_ will people be as wrong as Danny is here. There is some truth to what he says, but its badly skewed and misapplied at best. It begs the question of what his actual motives are: Does he believe it? Or is he doing it to help support his business as it sells the very same thing he purports to be examining. It smacks of ulterior motives.
I appreciate your video learning series... thank you for working to educate the masses... Thank you Danny. The deniers "those people" have NO CLUE about what they are talking about... any [RFI or EMF] signal on the speaker cable gets into amplifier through the feedback loop and DIRECTLY influences the [amplifiers performance] overall sound of the amplifier... "All cables sound the same" "all capacitors and passive components sound the same" to some engineering types, are simply often unwilling to invest in areas of their playback system...
I'm not a "denier" because I refuse to test or understand, I deny all the claims of RF causing issues on speaker cable because I do understand the basics of electronics. The main understanding you need is signal to noise ratio, the noise signal is there on an unshielded straight cable from RF, no one is denying it. It is a thing, it does exist. The issue several people have brought up on the previous video is that the signal level the RF causes is not significant enough to be audible in any capacity in even the most efficient speaker designs. Put another way; no RF signal (unless you live next to a high amplitude microwave transmitter, which would mean other issues like being a burnt crispie) is going to drive a speaker. If you have an amplifier design that uses feedback from the cable, you won't hear the RF either as the ratio of the 1-20 watt signal to a milliwatt (and that's the worst case extreme) RF signal would make it inaudible also. Here's a simple test, plug any wire you like into your speaker, wire it up to a large antennae if you like to really go for it, and listen for any sound. Use the most sensitive microphone you can source and test the background noise and the speaker wire plugged in and look for a difference in audio levels. Know what you'll see or hear? That's right nothing, RF signals aren't strong enough to drive a speaker at all. Poorly shielded amplifiers will pick up RF and make it heard. Also interconnection cables can pick up RF and then pass that on to the amplifier. Funny he never mentions those at all. Must not be a product he sells.
@@wetwareinterface3977 only AM RF signals will get picked up, and this is only with poor amp designs. I live very close to a radio station and I hear..... Nothing from my amp with its cheap eBay cables. FM radios operate in the Megahertz bands so unless you have superhuman hearing... You're going to hear nothing. It seems Question Everything here is using confirmation bias to basically... Ignore a foundational understanding of electronics and not... Question a video without blind besting or measurements. Ironic.
I just learned a new word today, here in my old country where we still use horses, witches & garlic for banning Covid & other stuff... Industry ! Oh my gush, what is that ? Seems great. Are u sure ?
The fact that an entire industry exists to make cables intended to reduce RF ingress simply demonstrates a triumph of marketing over fact. A fool and his money.....
For digital transmissions we have the benefit of a protocol. A good protocol overlays extra bits to tell or correct errors occuring. In the case of telling there is sufficient bandwidth to allow retransmission without interruption. If a digital transmission has so much noise that this bandwidth is used up, most protocols will cause buffer underruns and gaps rather than analogue artefacts so quite easy to hear. Noise in a digital system can only be interpreted as a 1 or 0 by the receiver. There are no other states
According to danny, with better cables, the protocol have a easier job and less to correct, making a better picture. That, or pieces of 1's or 0's slippes through the protocol, infecting you picture.
@@djmadrox7539 yes I think that is what Danny is getting at. However the bitrate far exceeds that required to listen at high resolution without degredation. Even allowing for resends and if that happens you'll hear gaps. Not quality loss.
@Douglas Blake i have been debating using them as my thoughts were with so many wires running close together would this create noise in your speaker lines?
An excerpt from a recent REL Acoustics Blog Article: Revisiting Bassline Blue "Something clearly had to be done, you see we’re not one of those head-in-the-sand audio companies that doesn’t believe that cables make no difference. We’ve known for almost 40 years that for speaker cables, interconnects, HDMI and digital-not to mention a/c-we can hear the benefits when they get it right and the downside when it’s poorly executed. Like it or not, cables matter and the flat earth audio types can complain all they want but they’re simply in denial. But connecting to our impedance environment is unique and this is where conventional cable companies get it wrong."
When something doesn't allow signal in ( such as shielded cables) there not filters. Their shielding the cables from allowing interference into the cable. Filters allow signal in and change the signal before the signal gets let out. Your loosely using the word " Filter". You don't understand what you're talking about yourself. This is education for you personally. A Filter allows signal in and sends the signal out in a different frequency. Shields BLOCK ALL interference from getting into the cables.
Well I looked up the prices and some are absolutely ridiculous. Tens of thousands of dollars for a pair of speaker cable? Even $500 for a pair of 1 meter RCAs is pretty expensive. I dont contend that it doesnt help. I contend that the snake oil is the cost.
Danny, Then why recommend them? Your products offer outstanding performance and excellent value. It is not great engineering when cost is no object. Sure, there are amazing luxury products of all kinds that show the ultimate possibilities. Anyway, who makes great value cables, that reject noise well?
Good video, Danny. And all true. I have older but good system components and after we moved to our new house I was very disappointed with the sound. Initially I was suspecting the aging components, but decided to spend some free time tweaking the system. I noticed that only a few feet from the electronics (CD, preamp & power amp, tuner) I have a DECT cordless phone, and two wifi routers. Then it struck me: three RF transmitters! I re-wired the supply to my power block with 16 feet of Belden *shielded* mains cable and could finally plug it into the *shielded mains circuit* I had put in when the house was built. Transformation #1! Sound more dynamic, better bass, more space round instruments, more energy in the highs. I have good power cords (Kimber) but they needed some help in this harsh environment: I forgot that I used to have ferrite cores around them at the point of entry into the equipment. Replaced: another improvement of the same kind. And then I added an iFi Purifier to help with a clean earth and spike suppression. This is less noticeable but it certainly doesn't hurt. The other two improvements had to do with *physical isolation* : all electronics now on sorbothane or silicone rubber damping feet: more neutrality; then the loudspeakers are now on silicone damping feet: this is major transformation #2 : no more excitation of my CONCRETE floor (yes, really) MUCH freer mid and highs and deeper bass. Now my system sings! It never sounded so good in the 34 years I have had the amplifier, 20 years the speakers and ~4-5 years the CD player. Primare CD32-->Audioquest Lapis-->Exposure XII (+Exposure XI PSU)--->Audioquest Lapis--->Exposure VIIS-->Kimber 'Crystal 24' (2x 12TC)-->KEF Reference Three Fours. I should maybe now reevaluate the two pairs of Kimber KCAG that other equipment is using. They were originally swapped out because they were not revealing enough, bass light and highs too rolled off. I hope your viewers can relate to my experience. Now I learned (after 50 years in the hobby!) power must be very clean and abundant (no restriction/constriction) and equipment MUST be physically isolated. FYI Max Townshend does a great video on this topic. All the best, Rob in Switzerland
If noise is being picked up, it should show up on a spectrum analyzer between 20 Hz and 20 KHz. That's a very simple test... why do none of the sites you link to use this test? A good spectrum analyzer is much more sensitive than our ability to hear. Can't help but feel like this is dodged a lot. It would be nice if you jumped in with technical details. I think everyone is tired of "well I'm gonna skip the technical mumbo jumbo and talk about it like this".
A "spectrum analyzer" is designed to pick up info coming out of or into RCA or XLR out/inputs, it won't show noise on your cable line in great detail, for that you will need an oscilloscope or voltmeter or some other device designed to pick-up that kind of signal. These signals are often very low and kind of like "white-noise" before they are amplified to the point where we're able to hear them on speakers.
The obvious and correct answer is that showing that data actually disproves the claim being made here. So it isn't shown and sciencey words are thrown around instead.
@Douglas Blake I don't think Danny is claiming it can't be quantified, but he claims his FM antenna test is all the needed proof, which is almost as bad since it's a test measuring the wrong thing... exactly what he's telling us to watch out for!
@Douglas Blake I'd even be willing to go with shown to exist at all. Even if it's not understood. For some odd reason though Danny doesn't think controlled listening can show that differences exist. When you let that sink in you have to wonder how you can prove anything to him. Measurements apparently can't prove anything and controlled listening also can't prove anything. What is the arbiter? His UA-cam videos?? He's definitely the first guy I've seen go all in on this sort of logic path in UA-cam "audiophile" videos.
The word "interconnects" Established because people won't spend mega bucks for cables. "Hey, look at my interconnects, I don't use cables as I am elite"
Wauw. Maybe this is the answer to why i find my Kimber Cables so good sounding. I've had them for many years, and they are by no means 'state of the art' cables with fancy colours and 100 bucks connectors. Just plain VS 4's i think.... 🤔 I have tried some others over the years, but all with less enjoyable debth and withs in the soundstage, and sometimes harsch as well. Thats why the Kimbers have stayed here so long 🙂 Just can't do without soundstage.... Thanks for the great vids Danny! Greetings from Denmark 🇩🇰
I have done several blind tests many years ago, I and my friends could not hear any difference in cheap 6mm2 speaker cables and expensive, only when comparing thin with thick we could hear any difference. However in signal cables there were no trouble at all, there were huge differences between them, mostly in clarity and higher frequensys. The test was performed on a 12k$ Sony SACD ES setup, not a very high end but ok-ish and we could switch cables in a couple of seconds which made the test easier.
I have tried twisted stranded copper 12 gauge (two wires twisted & four wires braided) 2 wires twisted improvement over zip cord, 4 wires braided improvement over twisted. I have just completed one of Danny's 24 wire speaker cables and a much larger improvement over four wires of twisted 12 gauge wire.
Danny You are right. I live in RF Central Heathrow one side Northolt (air ports) on another + local town centre with communication aerials then multiple phone masts if you take a capacitor insert it in a wire from my switched off amplifier case to earth the cap charges. Since I plaited my all valve system mains cables and attached ferrites. When I was a lad Dad worked for the BBC so like the studios I visited all star earthed. The final task was making cross connected co -ax speaker cable for my Quad 57's low inductance & rejects interference so no buzzes, clicks, hum or mains transformer noise, sounding as quiet as broadcast quality in the1950's
Good points, John. I see Russ Andrews is cashing in on the aftermarket earthing idea now. Of course we can DIY, I'm tempted to give it a go and see what a difference it makes. All the best, Rob
I’d say this hits the nail on the head - if you think you have issues with RF being induced into the output stage of your amplifier then you should look at the way the grounding has been done. RF being induced on mic level input stages - we see that all the time, noise being induced from lighting dimmers on the same phase - yep, RF being “reamplified by negative feedback” - someone screwed up the amplifier design.
Cables are cables huh? No sound difference Huh? OK.. Real story.. My story.. I worked @ Circuit City.. We started carrying Monster Cable, and yes I still like monster cable and always will, for this reason. I had a nice system at the house.. HK avr, Carver seperate amp, Polk spkers and a Velodyne FSR sub.. but with the cables that came with it or the red and white regular cables.. no biggie right.. I went to a class taught by Noel Lee himself in Dallas.. I sort of bought into it and figured I would start with the 200 line of cable.. if it makes a difference cool.. if not I did not spend much money.. so I hooked it up and was listening to it.. My girlfriend at the time (who could give two shits about audio), came in the room.. sat for a bit.. and got up looking at the speakers and equipment.. I asked "what are you doing?"... she then accused me of buying new equipment.. now at that moment I was sold.. Many of us can hear differences and live for great sound.. but for someone who did not give one iota of damn about it.. to hear it.. acknowledge it and go looking for it to acuse me of "New" ... SOLD! JS.. I got the same speech when I upgraded to the 400mk II cables.. JS.. if you want to see results.. play for someone who is not vested.. Just a thought
Having formerly worked for 20 years in design and installation of large format disco and stadium sound systems, my experience with speaker cables for best results was low impedance and short as possible. We employed heavy gauge (2.5mm to 4mm copper ) 2 core flex for low power losses which was (by co incidence) twisted in construction. We found that any noise that was introduced into the systems was to be found in the signal processors before the power amplifiers, such as the mixers, active crossovers and other processors. Using high quality signal cable (Belden 8761) and connectors in the signal path before the power amps was essential to achieving super low noise floors and high clarity. I might add that we were very particular about having fully dedicated AC power circuits provided for all of the audio system elements and once again heavy gauge power cables.. As for components in passive crossover networks , I totally agree with using high quality metalized Poly caps, air core inductors and quality resistors, they are key to providing proper response from quality drivers. So while not totally convinced on the braided speaker cables virtues I am open to the possibility
Some guy on a video said he used a coat hanger in a listening test with $5000 speaker wires and people can't tell the difference I'm so confused on this subject I agree with Danny it makes perfect sense but people still don't agree. When I build my speakers I use ofc braided like he does in people on diy groups tell me it's a waste it's dimensioning returns blah blah blah but I have one chance to design my speakers right and I would rather spend a little extra money than have any problems. He made sense to me ..
The glowing facts are the speakers a) do not have the frequency response to even respond to RF signals, b) even if they did the signals don't have enough energy to drive a speaker, c) the human ear cannot hear RF no matter what. The worst possible outcome from Speakers Cables picking up RF is damage to the amplifier by causing high power oscillations...however, I'm assuming you have good quality power amplifiers that filter out RF at the output (any amplifier worth its salt already has an RF filter at the speaker outputs, and power supply, and input stage). Nevertheless, showing that a Speaker Cable can act as an antenna does not in any way prove it can 'sound better' than one that doesn't. See above. Also, the LENGTH of the cable is what determines whether it is a good antenna or not (unless said cable has an RF filter of course). The reason the receiver is responding is because the RF signal is being AMPLIFIED inside the receiver. A strong broadcast FM signal is 1mV/m (-60dBu). That's about 1,000,000 times LESS energy than it takes a speaker to make the faintest of sounds. If it isn't amplified by specialized high gain RF amplifier, audio equipment has NO HOPE of responding to it. Moreover, even if you're convinced such a test proves anything, all you need is a $2 RF choke to clip on your cable. Done.
I think there is a ton of snake oil out there. However I know that there is a difference between poor quality and good quality and better quality can improve sound. I have experienced it myself. But it is challenging to find good bang for the buck. It is all part of the journey.
When Danny says " MIT CABLES" he's not referring to the college MIT. He's talking about Music Interference Technology. It's a company built on getting frequencies out of audio cables.
Yes, there are LOTS of industries "out there" to sell you anything you want to buy. It doesn't necessarily mean that what they have to sell has legitimate claims. Maybe go over what *IS* snake oil in the speaker cable market versus what isn't?
Should I buy that "Miracle Spring Water" that was tested to be tap water with bleach to cure all my ailments because there is an industry surrounding such elixir "cures"?
Circular logic is the best logic, because it's circular.
The problem is that he is not knowledgeable in basic electrical theory (and Im being charitable here) and cannot actually provide information on what is snake oil to begin with.
I’m sure that he recommends his own products.
/s
Speaker cable companies and retailers rely on subjective advertising. If they can mislead you believing they have done "all the research" thus saving you time from doing it yourself, they succeeded. This spurious presentation is a prime example. Notice product placement of his speaker cables and repetitious use of "whole industries dedicated". Maybe with 30 more iterations someone will take this at face value and reach for their wallet. SMH.
I am not an Electrical Engineer or even an Electronics Engineer but did receive a pretty dang good education in the field of electronics from the US Navy some 30 yrs ago - when we still did component level troubleshooting and I would not spend money on "special" HDMI cables. On the other hand, I did do a listening test using a Bel Canto DAC-1 and using the same DVD player, I could actually hear a difference between the TOSLINK and the coax digital inputs. I know that 1's and 0's are just 1's and 0's - but I also heard a difference and no only did I hear it, but I called over a friend to see if he could as well, and I swapped the inputs without him knowing which was which and he also heard a difference. I know that those who haven't ever tried something like this will argue but a man with an experience will never be at a disadvantage to a man who only has a theory.
This is called "Creating a solution, to a problem that does not exist" Someone will always buy something, if they can be convinced it solves a problem, even if they have no problem. Marketing 101.
1. The fact that a company sells a product doesn't show that it works.
2. Do a null test.
3. Do an ABX test.
So the argument that the "cable industry" is not bullshit is that there are companies working in the cable industry. Ok.
Yeah that part got me to. Shark fins are believed in Chinese culture to have properties of boosting sexual potency and it is an industry....but that doesn't mean it works
I'm with you, Lars. While I am not ready to argue that cable quality does not matter, I DO call bullshit on offering up as evidence for this the fact that companies are selling a good deal of expensive cable to meet this perceived need. That's like saying that greasy hamburgers and fries are good to eat and offering up McDonald's, Burger King, and Wendy's as evidence. They do business because a LOT of people make bad decisions or are lazy, IMO, so why might not the fancy cable companies be serving a similar illusion?
I, personally have never had the time to obsess over this sort of thing, and have found that my music sounds quite pleasing as is (using lamp cord for speakers, very pedestrian RCA cables to interconnect sources to amps, and running reasonably well-engineered inexpensive yet quality components - Yamaha Natural Sound receiver, pair of ADS L-810 ii speakers, Sonos Connect box.) But I'm up for easy, reasonably priced upgrades. In the case of this sort of thing, fancy cables, I do wonder and am eager to see what the OP (Danny, is that his name?) presents as valid science evidence. I had the opportunity to audition fancy cables years ago when I worked at a fairly high-end audio store (Mc', B&O, ADS, Bozak, Sonus, Denon) and really had to strain to even imagine that the connections were making a difference. Maybe the products (cables) just weren't up to snuff, I have no idea. But the experience had me pretty convinced that many so-called audiophiles might just be people who had nothing better to do than indulge a fetish or were lonely people looking for company and a common cause with other nerds of a certain flavor. I find that my listening needs are filled nicely with relatively modest equipment (at least compared to the most expensive stuff out there, which makes the price of my Volvo convertible look bargain-basement by comparison!) But my ears just might be crap, who knows?
@@jimjay8828 No? So how come there are more Chinese people alive today than people of any other nationality?
@@paulh7798 :-)
Cables do matter, don't buy crap. I bought a pair of used 8 foot long Kimber Kables 8TC on eBay. I was replacing a pair of 8 foot long Monolith by Monoprice speaker cables 12 gauge and PE coating. They were also good. I couldn't tell the difference but the Kimber Kables are blinggier so I'm happy. The moral of the story is, don't use crap you'll be okay. A lot of good quality speaker cable will work just as well as the more expensive stuff. Sounding different does not mean sounding better. If a cable is tuned to sound a certain way, then you're buying that tuning, not a "better" cable.
If you plug a unterminated speaker wire directly into a Mic Preamp you might see a few dB of noise above the absolute floor from RF/Emf. That's in a Mic Pre, that is sensitive to millivolts. Speaker level is so much higher than that, that the same RF/Emf will literally be in the values of 100,00ths of the signal level being pushed from an amplifier. You are more likely to pick up RF/Emf from less than optimal grounding on the chassis of the amplifier than the speaker cables. The Speaker Cables are the VERY LEAST sensitive component of an audio signal chain. It's the last place I would spend extra money. Just my Opinion, do whatever makes you happy.
Absolutely agree with everything you said. First time I saw this guy he did a bunch of upgrades to different pairs of bookshelve speakers and I was impressed by his methods and testing. Every other video I have seen is just him pushing garbage like this, for sales I guess.
@Kniferide Audio People who didn't return the cables, did hear significant improvement to justifiy the cost. Why would you assume people don't have ears and like to waste money? All the legit cable companies accept returns.
@@allansh828 Placebo is a hell of a drug, dude
@@allansh828 LOLOL ..... Victim, you are.
@@allansh828 P L A C E B O
... and you are just quoting another speaker cable manufacturer's "sales pitch" as "data". So no proof there.
Amir from AudioScienceReview (highly educated) tested a $2500 set of Audioquest cables that did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and had no provided measurements from the manufacturer just pretentious marketing, total waste of money. Same with The Audioquest Jitterbug, does nothing when tested seven ways from Sunday. I've always read home audio speaker cables really don't need shielding unless maybe its long runs or passing over lots of electrical equipment... may have to do some testing of my own. I have 2 family members that are also electrical engineers, I'll have to see what they say about all this.
They do no real science over there. They are just a propaganda machine for their belief system. They never answer the question do cables make an audible difference as they never listen to anything.
You'll recognize a real scientist based on their curiosity. People who listen and have the inquisitive mind to try and figure out why there is a difference, even if that implies they need to come up with new/additional measurement methods, build measuring equipment for the purpose etc., those are scientists. People with zero curiosity whose standard reply to anything whatsoever is "Can't be" are not only not scientists, they're completely irrational in their attempts to prove something can't be. I guess that's why the term flat-earthers is appropriate for people who will NOT go out of their way to learn something new, but claim they already know everything.
Historically speaking, there has always been a point in time at which we didn't know what we know now. I'm old enough to remember the time before we knew about jitter in digital audio, or reflections in digital cables due to incorrect terminations (RCA vs BNC for S/PDIF), to give one example. All the flat-earthers did was claim "bits are bits". Some of those refer to themselves as scientists, and presumably, some of them are still in business. Makes one wonder what their excuse might be. I'd never hire an engineer with this type of mindset.
This is a hobby, so everyone should enjoy it their own way. Respect to all sides. But in *my* view, any publication that ranks audio equipment based on how it performs in a test routine designed by the author is suspect, especially when the author does her test routine first, studies the results, and only then does a listening test. Lots of room for confirmation bias there. And it also requires lots and lots of faith that the author's test routine tests for the right thing(s).
@@michaelzoppo534 Unless they do blind or double blind tests, there is going to be expectation bias no matter what. I'm a science-minded person myself, and do recognize there are problems involved (such as in recommending gear based upon personal experience, or for that matter measurements). When it comes to critics and their opinions, one is better off knowing their bias rather than the so-called objectivism of panels. As to measurements, they're a means to an end, and as such, I don't have a problem reading someone's personal impressions as well as studying technical analysis. In reality, one will want to buy a product that is well-engineered AND sounds great, there's no contradiction there. Actually, that's precisely the problem we're faced with here: people who insist that one replaces (versus complements) the other.
Will cables make a difference, yes, in the extreme cases (lamp cord vs actual speaker cables).
But building an argument on anecdotal evidence and calling those who wants relevant empirical evidence for flat earthers... Well, I guess science isn't for everyone.
Depends, almost all lamps with have some meaty copper wire....
@PS A That's not the case. Cables make just as much difference as streamers, DACs and AMPs.
@@allansh828 What's the scientific evidence behind that, any published peer reviewed articles to download?
I know of articles going into detail about the the scientific aspects, but I'm open for any disputing data.
the question is, how do these Industries develop the cables, if not with science, with what else ? because if it was developed with science it must be a technical way to proof it
Circular logic warning: there being a whole industry out there does not equal proof that RF interference impacts audible sound quality. Please show evidence and do not just quote others who say that it does.
The whole industry already knows it does and has to address it in all types of electronics.
Actually, the fact that an industry exists that has many thousands of well educated, economically successful adherents does prove it exists. Your lack of trying cables that reject RFI and EMI but still claiming EMI and RFI doesn't influence sound is the circular logic.
@@paulh7798 lets see a video of someone accurately identifying which cable is doing a better job of that in a test. or just which speaker cable is being used for a particular track, with high accuracy. an actual scientific test.
A little late here but, yeah. Talk to any ham radio operator and ask about RFI coming in on cables. Quick simple fix there is coiling the cable around a iron core, similar to a toroid. Twisting wires is effective in certain areas; hence the braided filter/shielding mentioned in this video. And they (we) are not dealing with near the fidelity of a simple stereo system, let alone the level of fidelity that Danny here is dealing with. So, right-on Danny.
The beauty of this hobby is that you can make your own decision about cables. No matter what anybody says, electrical engineer or enthusiast, try the subject cables in your own system. If you like what they do, keep them. If not, return them.
Seems much simpler than these never ending circular arguments.
@Douglas Blake
Like Hai Karate cologne getting you laid?
Being a Marlboro Man makes you more appealing?
Wearing Air Jordans makes you jump higher?
Or my all time fave (albeit quite obscure), Thrush side pipes ... if I simply put Thrush side pipes on my Vette, I'll get more action than I'll know what to do with.
I know, I know; "ok boomer"
Thanks
(btw; replace 𝘸𝘢𝘴𝘵𝘦 with 𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘯𝘥, it's more palatable...)
I found enormous amounts of switching noise radiating from LED light tape, the drivers being housed in a metal, grounded box....also I've found some LED lamps that make digital radios cut out when the light is switched on. It's clear that high frequencies can run around analogue and digital audio circuits and create inter-modulation and other effects and now that we have so many switching power supplies and microwave coms, the issues are bigger than ever before.
Absolutely agree. Those are good examples. I have ferrite cores around all cables to LED lights and dimmed LED lights for exactly that reason - I want to reduce the impurities they inject back into the mains power circuits. And ferrite cores on equipment power cables to reduce mains-borne RFI as much as practicable. Also shielded mains cables to metal-cased power outlet bars. RFI is not our friend!
@@RobWhittlestone - agreed, I think that if RF induced in loudspeaker cable is having an impact on the output of an amplifier then you need to look at the way the grounding has been done inside that amplifier and all the way back to a solid earth point.
I don’t believe in a “flat earth”, I believe in a “GOOD earth”.
Keep going.
I know cables don't make a difference at my level of equipment.
I realized that when I watched the first video you did.
Fly fishing is the same, people only know by the level or how well their experience is. Theories run rampant, doing proves everything.
You helped me realize that sound equipment is the same thing. It's what level you have, got it, makes sense.
I was learning how to cast a fly line 90 feet. A friend said everyone else says you don't need to cast beyond 30 feet. I said they say that because they can't cast further then 30 feet. My equipment isn't at a level yet to hear the difference, thank you, it cleared up a lot of what is being said. You know because of your experience. I'm the only guy I know that can cast 90 feet, I try to get others to learn but they don't get why it would make a difference, it does dramatically. I hope I get the same out of what audio gear I have. Peace
No hate, honest question. What role do you think double blind testing should have? Do you think it could/should show a statistically significant effect?
Amir @ Audio Science Research = BRINGING THE HEAT
One part of me is screaming "snakeoil!!BS!!" and the other part of me is sitting here and wondering how I could try to prove myself cables matter. In my opinion so far they matter in regards to aesthetics and impedance but everythig else has to prove to my ears
With different core materials, you change the sound of the speaker. 100% silver for example, gives less bass and some say more detailed highs. The bass i have witnessed with my ears, the highs not so sure. But then i ask myself, do i have the right speakers/amp combination? Why do i need hundreds or thousands of dollars to "correct my setup?
For example, a friend of mine bought B&W speakers, looks great and sounds very good. Only a a little tame in the low freq. He bought a Linn Class D(plus?) amp, again not so bold in the lows and on top of that silver wiring. You can imagine what happens; 1+1+1 = -3Dba (or more) for the low freq. Told him that as gently as i could, week later he shows me new cables (silver/copper) combo and a carpet under the table. Bass was back! Now he thinks a better powercord will make things better...0_o
If all your components is of high quality, and you have a bad speaker wire or a bad rca, changing them to a good cable gives a clear and very noticable upgrade in sound quality.
This is a hard watch... And yes, the Earth is very, very round.
Actually it's a spherical shape with a slight bulge along the equator. But definitely not flat or square. I've been building audio and power cables for years and from what I know, Danny's design for speaker cable will perform as one of the best bangs for the buck out there
@@glmaughan Maybe we should get globes made in the actual shape. Ha Ha
@@glmaughan It's an ovoid.
@@glmaughan It cant have a bulge and called spherical. That's called elliptical.
@@glmaughan Good boy
There'is only one way to finish this discussion. You have gears to mesures speakers. So you take mesurements for the same speakers, same gears, but with different cable.
Jup Danny. Do it. Show us
It won't show a difference, so he will never show it to you.
The negative feedback path of a amplifier does not discriminate between returning signal and RF. The RF enters the feedback loop and the amplifier applies “corrections” to eliminate distortion however, since RF was not in the original signal, RF creates spurious feedback corrections that add distortion to the amplifier’s output. If you can reject or filter out the RF, the amplifier loses the random distorting input from RF noise in its environment.
I don't know why people have to argue, if you don't believe don't buy cables, use home depot speaker wire.
Even if one is going to use side by side stranded conductor wire for speaker cable instead of twisted, woven, or braided geometry because it is cheaper I would suggest not using home depot cable because it is copper clad aluminum. Aluminum is not a good conductor and in longer runs will obviously change the response of what the speaker was designed to sound like. Furthermore, at high current levels for extended periods it will act like a heat filament. That is why you would never want to use copper clad aluminum ethernet cable if you're using it in a power over ethernet application.
I don't believe cables could cost more than electronics that drives speakers via those cables.
@@IliyaOsnovikov I get that alot of us spend hundreds not thousands on speakers and if you do spend 5k on speakers you are probably willing to spend a few hundred more on cables getting every bit of performance from them.
@@toecutterjenkins Do you have any idea how expensive are those cables that Danny has promoted? As I recall, some of those MIT speaker cables are sold for $10000-15000.
@@IliyaOsnovikov the cables he sells are 9 dollars a foot for at the lower end. You have to assemble them yourself. Again use what you like no one is forcing you to buy wire.
I agree. There is no way any wire can justify a 10k-15k price tag, nor a speaker justify a 500k price. These are toys for the wealthy.
"I'm not trying to sell anything." He says one big roll of speaker cable in each hand. Coincidentally speaker cable that is linked right below. The more people believe this stuff, the more you sell. The same as the other companies you are mentioning. These videos has nothing to do with teaching or science. It's a commercial.
Exactly! Let's just say most of the stuff on his channel isn't exactly accurate.
I have questioned him in the past and received a sidetracked answer.
Unless you have studied electronics and/or electrical systems, how do you guys know how to judge what he's saying?. You should do the test your selves before you judge someone's statement and do the research for your selves! He's (Danny) been doing this for a while now, so he probably knows a little something about the subject worth listening to.
@@seanjoell I actually come from an electric engineering background!
@@300ZCorradoVR6Z thanks for the interest. If you think there's some other info out there you think I should check-out, please let me know.
@@seanjoell There are a lot of good stuff out there. But it also depends on what you're looking to learn.
Cables definitely make a difference... But it's not necessarily a clear science either. The same cables will sound different with different electronics. The easiest proof of the differences cables make in my opinion is car audio. I do quite a bit of car audio work and can tell you without a doubt that what you may consider "high end" in home audio will not make the cut in a car audio install. Car audio environments are incredibly noisy with bad cables. I'm looking at you AudioQuest!
Love your video Danny. I repair and refurbish speakers here in the UK but not to the level you do 🙂. That word you were struggling with is pronounced 'Disco tech'. Keep up the good work. We all learn a great deal for your insights. Cheers. Matt
The human body acts as an RF antenna. The only way to make sure it doesn't interfere with your audio equipment (ears) is to cover yourself with a space blanket and to twist your legs and arms (counter-rotating if you're flexible enough).
I agree completely. I got into making cables because I can solder above normal ability.
The place most of my soldering was learned was Intel production and prototyping.
A friend had a friend who needed a solderer who could do both heavy and ultra fine soldering.
The owner had me build a 7 meter set of XLR interconnects that takes about 8 hours.
He then had me add them in a running system in series with the cables in use.
My only expectation was they met his standards so I could contract more work.
I was very surprised that the music improved by getting clearer.
That went against what I had been taught since High School.
Since then I have had to re evaluate some of what I was taught because it does not hold up to reality.
The biggest bunch of nay sayers I have talked with has been engineers. I find their "if you can't measure it, it don't exist amusing."
Keep up the good work and Thanks.
I seriously need a CLIO tutorial. I started this in my 50's. So much to learn and comprehend.
This happens a lot, "I added another run of cable extending my older stuff and it sounded clearer than before". this cable is better for sound etc... no you simply reseated some connectors in your install that may have been loose or rubbed off some corrosion that caused a better connection on some unrelated to you cable's run.
Placebo)
It remains comical to me that you call people who disagree with you flat-earthers as an insult, claiming that they demand proof. In truth, flat-earthers don’t want scientific proof, only to further prove their own feedback loop and strengthen their belief system.
I don’t disagree with you fundamentally, just the way that you treat this conversation, also resorting to calling pseudoscience “science”, constantly referring to human hearing and testimonials among solid arguments.
At the end of the day, it’s up to each person to decide. I realize that you’re trying to educate, and I appreciate that. What I don’t like is the pointing of fingers and demeaning some folks, who, while they may not be doing the most practical tests, still have the right to argue their point and to not be considered “less than” any given status or title, simply due to dissonance between your different operating methodologies. 🙃
@Lee Roy Jones I honestly can’t tell from your angry incoherency what you’re trying to say. The scientific method in its basic form is observation, formulation of a question or questions, a hypothesis, testing/experimentation and conclusion.
Anyone can perform tests using the scientific method with their own backgrounds and biases, tools, insights, and - yes - ignorance. Nothing is truly concrete, and with something as subjective as tastes in audio, results for each individual differ wildly. Being in one “camp” or another quite literally denotes primitive thinking. We can all learn from one another.
Thusly, my only real criticism of Danny’s approach was his use of strong and aggressive language toward certain “camps”. A lot of people form cult thinking. Most human circles form cults; it’s really a matter of wether or not it is a constructive or destructive cult. I just don’t find aggressive language in a presentation to be very helpful. Sort of like how you attacked me for some reason. We don’t know each other, I have no idea what your story is, and you couldn’t care less about mine. So why the anger? A waste of energy.
Cables matter. Everything matters. To whom and how much is an extremely complex and largely subjective matter. The synergy of a system is unique to every single system on the planet.
Peace
@@CirclesandSounds let me just clap you. I wish I could speak as clearly as you do. Hat off to you.
@@ezra8s Well, thank you! 😊
Interesting.. He repeats himself over and over stating that he is "not trying to sell you anything".. yet you re state his opinion by saying "its up to each person to decide.".. Duh.. He just said that. As far as his language or words he uses.. And? So what its the way he speaks or his demeanor.. aren't you being condescending? and hypocritical as well.. I'm just saying.. don't say you don't like how someone talks and then talk shit about it.. This is America.. you can say or think what ever you want and do it vocaly. You as well.. I happily acknowledge that.. But Hypocrisy is Hypocrisy.. SFMF
@Lee Roy Jones Put your tin hat on.. js
My big issue is at what point do these things start to make a difference? Could a $1,500 system (amp, speakers, source, DAC) be improved with these high-end cables or do the differences only show up in a $15,000+ system? Thanks!
Tune in for the 4th segment.
@@dannyrichie9743 Will do, thanks much!
I'm thinking out loud. 5k$ worth of cables, or 5k$ worth of better gears...? What make the bigger differences?
I completely 100 percent agree! Love your videos!
If there's audible noise being added to the signal, since cables can act as antenna's, wouldn't the simplest test just be to hook up your system and listen to it whilst not sending a signal? I mean, if you're not sending a signal, there should still be a signal from the cable acting as an antenna according to your explanation, or am I getting that wrong?
That would be incorrect. You have to demodulate that signal in order to hear it. And in some cases that is what happens and radio stations are actually heard through the system. The problem is that the demodulated signal affects the audio signal that we do hear.
@Douglas Blake Yet, contributors here and myself have heard demodulated radio stations play through systems plane as day. And the effects are clearly audible. You guys are grasping for strays to hold onto beliefs that cables don't matter.
@@dannyrichie9743 - audible demodulated radio interference would generally come from input stages where it gets significantly amplified. RF injected into the output stage of an amplifier does not get amplified - it gets shunted to earth through the (low) output impedance of said amplifier.
The only way (?) I could see for induced RF at the output to be amplified is if it makes its way through the ground plane to the input stage - in which case the amplifier designer (or customer) has messed up with the earthing.
LOL! I kept yelling, "Re-bar, re-bar" at the screen while you were doing that vid.
When it comes to "senior moments", I'm the KING! And I'm only 60!
It would be better to do a blind A/B test with Danny to see if he can hear the differences. I find it odd that he calls people that use science to disprove him flat earthers when it’s he rejecting science.
It is curious why people like Danny don't just post a video of themselves completing a blind listening test and prove that they statistically can hear a difference. It would go a whole lot further in "educating" the rest of us. He would be able to hawk his speaker wire kits even more! Seems like such a no brainer move based on what he's preaching to all of us. Wonder why he doesn't do it?? 😜
did u actually try any science yourself? or is just your bias against expensive and quality cables talking
@@MrDannydjmix2 Are you confused? What "science" are you seeing here? Lol
@@LouGuido ur comment had no science in it lol go try for urself first, well but first get a good system u can hear it on
@@MrDannydjmix2 the good system response is how I know it's impossible to reason with you. If a difference exists and is audible you will hear it in a normal audio system as well. It may be a bit louder or softer, but it shouldn't be gone! If it's on the frequency response it's in the sound. How do you think speakers work? Please watch this video in its entirety and really try to understand it and then we can continue this back and forth:
ua-cam.com/video/ZyWt3kANA3Q/v-deo.html
Kimber has been around for ever. I heard my first 4c cables at my friends house, when we were 16. (40 years ago) What a difference from the 16ga cable he was using originally. I'm not an engineer, but there is a reason data cable, and other cables are using helical pairs, or other twisting methods. Less noise, less RFI, etc.. These types of cables do make a difference. Whether or not you believe it, is entirely your prerogative.
The braiding and counter rotating geometry may be described as a "faraday cage." I make all my own cables which use a double helix geometry, which is an effective, and efficient way to shield cables, and minimize noise in your system.
For those who don't understand this comment, it's not really a Faraday cage, more like twisted pair conductors arranged in braids of twisted pairs in a counter-rotating helix. Any electrical engineer who thinks twisted pair conductors are snake oil doesn't know about transmitting electrical signals and noise control.
@@mikeazeka1753 Nicely put Mike. Thanks.
These things are "well known in the industry". Yes, the audiophile cable industry, the only industry where this "science" applies.
If you don’t look any further... signal transmission is a big issue in a lot of industries. And also an issue in audio. But if you don’t want to look into it that’s fine. But just for the heck of it: try a copper loudspeaker cable that is oxidized (gone all green). Sure as hell the term “OFC” won’t apply. Try to enjoy the music with that one. In other words: metallurgy makes a difference, and geometry as argued here in this video makes a difference.
@@fgroen1225 only for connection and resistor issues. No issues in transparence or bigger stage cable fantasies
@@cbts001a4 try it and be amazed.
This goes along with the video you made about crossovers and the tiny gauge wire manufactures use inside a speaker. I emailed you about my RTi150's and I think I am going to rebuild the crossovers myself. Your videos are so informative and helpful. Thank you .
While you are at it, have you seen how tiny the wires are inside a speaker's voice coil? Perhaps rebuild those too. (kidding)
It is strange that people in the radio, music recording and media production industries don't use basic bell wire and or cheap interconnects...they do often use cables like van damme ofc or belden or morgami and similar and upwards, but still in hifi people argue over cables.
The point is nobody is forcing people to buy high end stuff, but there is a base quality of cables that will definitely improve performance and reduce noise and interference.
But once you have got a general cable... the rest is more about the subtle changes and flavours that may or may not suit the users hearing and needs.
But hey if people are happy with there bell wire and basic interconnects that's great too!
But if things all sounded the same...we would not need or have so many different source amp and speakers options (even copper wound transformers can sound very different)... after all they all do the same job,- of picking up amplifying and reproducing signal through an electrical process. Yet can sound very different, which we can understand and accept.
I think the main problem for cables for most is understanding and justifying how and why a cable costs $1000's while others a few bucks...as they both are seen as just strands or cores of copper, silver or ?, Sheathed in insulation and protection materials. So find it difficult to accept the value in it. But will perhaps be happy to spend thousands on a new amp because it has loads of components in a sturdy looking box and there is a sense that more work, skill and value goes into it.
But equally while there are good sources, amps and speakers there are also pretty bad ones too. (mind you most are pretty good these days).
But the real truth is... there is no such thing as perfect sound reproduction system...and even if there was... some wouldn't like it...as it's a personal taste thing.
So if you can't hear any difference between cables then please be happy... but also be respectful that others can and do ..and if it sounds better and the price is right they will upgrade.
I can't personally say I'm convinced they are getting value for money with expensive cables...but I did demo loads which have different flavours but prefered van damme (ofc) and belden tinned ...which are good enough for me and cheap, which I the make to custom lengths as I hate un-needed spaghetti.
Absolutely. I completely rewired my entire studio with Mogami cable. It was like someone had removed a blanket from my speakers. I wasn't really a believer until then. I knew cable quality was part of the equation, but always figured it was negligible.
I think a lot of pros (and I do this too) will spend on decent cables is because they are more reliable and durable than the cheapest possible thing. I don't think a dirt cheap generic plastic XLR connector sounds worse than a good one, not in any way that might be noticeable in a real world scenario. I'll still buy the expensive connector because of better build quality, corrosion resistance, durability, serviceability...
@@federicoprestipersonally I think it's a lot like hifi ....as some are more interested in sound and so will research, study, look into reviews, demo and buy equipment and connectors that fits their requirements and budgets....while others may buy the most expensive things without knowing why.. while other may buy cheap and cheerful and be happy... and other will steadily upgrade their equipment and connectors if they hear differences and improvements....and have money to invest.
But good Belden, Mogami, or Van damme cables are all pretty good (and reasonably priced) starting points
I watched the video out of curiosity because my 61 year old ears do not absolutely catch any noise or hiss in my rig so the issue doesn't regard to me.I am not sure that happens because my hearing is a bit tired or because my rig is perfect even though it is a budget one hooked together with amazon cables.I'd loved to hook it with some expensive cables and have some A and B test and tell any difference.
Don't bother. Enjoy the music. Listening intently for something that isn't there just messes with your head.
I had a pair of speakers with a bass reflex vent and when l tapped the woofer it boomed for a half second after. I converted them to passive radiator and now the tapped woofer stops instantly. Lucky strike and the bass is way improved.
@@davidlong1786 It was definitely an improvement in the sense that i liked it way more. I made the passive radiators out of old drivers with the magnets bumped off. Then I tweaked the weight till it sounded (what I reckon) the best. By using blue tack as weight it was easy to add and subtract weight.
I would say that AudioQuest deserves a place at the table. Love your channel!
AQ are some of the worst offenders for bogus science claims on their cables. Kimber actually posts their measurements of their cables, AQ absolutely does not.
@@OHMAudioChannel Claims or not, are they bad cables? I havent heard bad AQ cables personally, compared to for example Monster, which are trash in many cases.
@@smjerbetsk they well built, no doubt but they don’t provide a meaningful upgrade over other well built and designed cables from other manufacturers. Their product descriptions are often filled with unsubstantiated claims and/or pseudoscience theories. Monster cables was a marketing company that sold A/V cables.
Still waiting for that double blind test...
Double blind test are covered in episode 4.
@@dannyrichie9743 I assume "covered" means you're going to rant about why you don't believe in controls? Please prove me wrong, lol.
@@dannyrichie9743 Great, I am really looking forward to that one, especially if it includes a statistically valid double blind test.
@@ggroch You guys kill me. You guys don't even understand what "double blind" means and how it is not even possible nor meaningful in any way. Stay tuned.
@@dannyrichie9743 In this cable nonsense, double blind means that the person being tested and the person administering the test don't know which cable is which in the experiment. It's purpose is to prevent any bias from the person administering the test from influencing the results. It has been demonstrated to exist and has famously caused there to be false conclusions from single blind testing in the past. It's not a difficult concept to wrap your brain around. You really believe you can't setup a test where a third party labels the cables alphabetically, wraps them all in a similar outer covering that makes them indistinguishable from one another, and has the same terminations so that the person switching them doesn't know and can't tell which is which? Something like that's "impossible" to you? Please Danny, sounds like more excuses.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer-expectancy_effect
Please explain/show how RFI/EMI affects amplifiers. Or provide links. I'm trying to understand the technical reasons for this. I have some limited knowledge of how amps work but it's rudimentary so references would be appreciated.
@Douglas Blake thanks! What happens if it's a no feedback or a feed forward amp?
@Douglas Blake Just because you don't get it doesn't make it a fantasy. And why go here? Why talk about cables? My customers ask for and about them all the time. My goal is for my customers to be able to hear and enjoy the level of performance that I do. And yes, my system is one of the top level systems in the country. And not just because I design great speakers. It is the set up, the room treatment, the gear and yes, even the cables. Everything matters.
@@dannyrichie9743 hey Danny, can you film an example of how RFI/EMI affects an amplifier based on different cables? I'm really trying to understand this but so far it's not clicking for me. Also, if DOES happen, is it just poor amp design or does it affect all amps?
@@shimofo1 I cover some of this in episodes to come. Episode 4 touches on that.
Its fairly simple. Every amplifier can pickup RF wireless signals from the cables that are connected to it, because the cables can act as antennas. Once inside your equipment, these RF signals can be amplified and detected by non-linearities in the circuits. Often the non-linearities are actually caused by the RF signals driving amplifier stages into saturation. The detected signals are now what we call "baseband", that is they are the original signals before they were modulated onto RF carriers. Amplifier outputs are less susceptible to this than the inputs; that should be obvious. However, strong interference can propagate backwards through an amplifier, especially if it employs a lot of negative feedback.
These effects have been problematic in large systems where speaker lines run hundreds of feed. The usual solution is to run shielded cable and or conduit, and to avoid things like fluorescent lights, stage lighting panels, HVAC motors, and anything else that has strong EMI potential.
Just because there is an industry doesnt provide any proof. Guess what else had an industry....snake oil. Now I'm trying to keep my mind open. I'm looking forward to the double blind testing. Although I'm skeptical on this subject I do enjoy your work. So thank-you. Have a good one.
so was i until i installed the cable used in this video.and what a difference compared to by van Damme speaker cable i had fitted at the time.. it sounds much more clearer now.
Snake oil wasn't an industry. Health care is an industry. Snake masquerades as a health care product. It did not make for an industry. That's a false equivalency
The existence of an entire industry does indeed indicate a desire or need by consumers. Some priducts might be snake oil, certainly. But let's not be to cavalier with the word industry here.
@@kaufmanat1 I was referring to industry in its most basic term. The word industry can be used to describe a department or branch of a specific industry. Ill be more clear. Audio cables are an industry. Overly expensive cables is a subsect of that industry. Just like snake oil was a subsect of the medicine industry. Miracle cure...Miracle cables. I have been involved in designing more than one amplifier. The problem with cables is always going to come back to " the whole audio chain" from the source to the speaker drivers. Like I said. Ill keep my mind open. But just because there is demand for a product does not mean said product does what it claims to do.
@@iansalmond726 Guys like you crack me up. Tho i serioussly doubt your in possession of a decent sound system with the way your describing things, if you are and your having this attitude, the funny part is you might have a good/expensive system that potentially have a really degraded sound, and you have no clue what your missing out on. So lets just leave all you "snake oil" guys be and enjoy our systems with great cables with clear crisp highs and tight juicy bass while you sit there talking about snake oil lol
@@smjerbetsk Wow...talk about jumping to conclusions. I've been in the audio industry for over 20 years. I've personally listened to hundreds of system. I've demoed systems costing 7 figures. I've worked with people at a major player in the cable industry (who are located in Utah). I've had custom amplifiers designed for a client (company located in the Netherlands) and had discussions with their engineers. We even have an electrical engineer on staff. I've designed and installed systems for clients that had no budget. I've also done modest systems that sounded better than systems costing significantly more. I've probably forgotten more on this subject than most people know. There is nothing wrong with being skeptical. This is a tough subject. There are so many variables. from room, to source equipment, to the very source (music itself). We've run countless studies on where people should spend there money. I can tell you right now. We don't have a degraded system. Could it be better? Sure, but what is better? Should you spend your money on cables or a better set of speakers? I've listened to expensive cables in our audio chain. And almost all who have heard it with/without those cables didn't or were not sure they could hear a difference. Not to mention if it was even an upgrade. Like I said I'm waiting for his info. I know enough to know that he has a vast amount of knowledge as well. I'd like to know why he has the opinion he does. Maybe I'm wrong. That being said, some of the biggest and most respected people in the audio world also agree with me. I feel comfortable with my position.
I am with you Danny!!!! Keep the video's going....Let's kick it up another notch...Since my hobby is to Recap/Upgrade my own gear..How about a video on Recapping Crossovers with better Film caps?
I'm with you! -like to see that too.
"There is an entire industry"
Yes and an entire way of life built upon ignorance. It's doing well these days.
It could be interesting if you would do measurements on your braided cables vs. similar gauge traditional speaker cables, same length and amplifier into either a speaker load or resistor dummy load. FFT plot, 20Hz-20kHz.
Three values should define any speaker cable; resistance, inductance and capacitance per unit length. Wondering if you have these numbers for your braided cable?
Correct me if im wrong but I think these differences is quite hard to measure. Im not at all in doubt theres big differences in bad/good/different cables from experience, and I wld love to see it measured if possible but I dont think theres tests that will easily show these differences.
@@smjerbetsk I work in telecommunication field and every cable we purchase comes with data sheet which includes all electrical properties such DC resistance, impedance, inductance, capacitance and VoP. Manufactures test those cables before they ship the to us and we retest them upon arrival. Sure, you need to have proper tools for that but it's not some kind of voodoo magic or "rocket science". If I can't measure those things and can't check them against industry benchmarks then I don't trust it and wouldn't buy those cables. Period.
The same applies to audio cables. No data sheets, no benchmarks then why to bother?
DC resistance in audio cables is the least of the problem and it's negligible. A regular 10 AWG has around 3.3 ohms resistance per 1000 meters (~3280ft) Therefore 3 meter (~10ft) speaker cable has R=0.00984 ohms while your speakers are rated between 4 to 8 ohms. It`s 1:400 and 1:800 ratio respectively. Yes, you can measure it but can't hear it 😉
Amir at Audio Science Research posted a measurement response refuting this video. This might be interesting.
I thought it was great. He just confirmed what I was showing. He is still drawing a conclusion (no audible effect) based on his beliefs (no science). But hey, at least he's watching and if he sticks around he might learn something.
@@dannyrichie9743
What are your thoughts on testing your premise about cables by doing a double blind test?
@@dannyrichie9743 so what is the science that high frequency RF are audible? The same science the earth is flat I guess... Sorry but you are coming across terribly...
@@venkatagirikotte4019 I cover double blind testing in episode 4. Stay tuned.
I think some of you guys are the guys that didn't listen in school and now you have trouble listening to music.
I agree that well-made cables make a difference. I made my own RCAs years ago and we could hear the difference as I completed each pair. Where I draw the line is at these jewelry cables that cost tens of thousands of dollars. Sorry but audible improvement is one thing, fashion is another!
Can you name one of those companies?
I'm skeptical of cable containing additional circuitry.
@@tupuhumuhumunukunukuapuaa3093 I would say that depends of the company making it. Shunyata, AudioQuest, and Kimber all have well proven, honest track records. Plus dozens and dozens of positive reviews in Stereophile,The Absolute Sound, and elsewhere.
@Douglas Blake Got any evidence to support your AudioQuest accusation?
@@charlesferguson6678 so having an equalizer hidden in your demonstration is trustworthy? Lol
Actually you never want to ad an inductions or impedance filter in your signal path. Especially not before the amplifier. This will restrict the dynamic range. Some of the few that has done research on this issue is Ansuz cables. What they have done is they have developed an active noise suppression board included outside the cable. It works by sampling the noise transients and generating the counter transients actively. Almost like noise cancellation except this is active. So it's not directly a part signal path. Therefore they can work on reducing the inductance and impedance to almost zero. And that allows the dynamics to come through and opens everything up
A balanced connection is preferable "before the amplifier" with some low pass filter (as a part of an amplifier schematic). Any twisted cable is good enough for this. As for speaker connection cables, there are so many marketing BS as well as engineering solutions, that it's hard to say where a truth is. But Danny is right when he talks about cable to negative feedback loop influence. If we take this signal directly from a point where an output transistor and a cable connect, we won't be able to separate a cable noise and transistor distortions. Other solutions will add something to a signal path (to make this separation possible). Besides, a good cable can be connected to any amplifier.
@@sc0or A balanced cable is good if the output buffer is made correctly for balanced operation. Many just adds an extra Op-amp for this option meaning extra components into the signal path. In this case the an unbalanced cable will usually sound the best. So the proper way is the try both if both connections are available. My power amp only has a feedback loop as a part of in the input buffer. The output stage has no feedback loop. So theoretically it should be less sensitive to noise as explained in the video
@@jwester7009 Good choice! I also prefer no negative feedback amplifiers. Properly built hey sound amazing. I cured THD sickness some time ago -) But 99% of amplifiers have a global negative feedback loop. These cables are for them I think.
I have to say that I am very happy with Canare star quad when it comes to cost and performance. I use the starquad on my interconnects and speakers. I've compared it with other cables and there is always a difference. Even my USB cable is from wireworld...it made a difference. They actually show the cross section for each cable. Geometry does matter. If you can't hear the difference then you either have too much wax in your ears or you don't know what you are listening for. As for audioquest I am not a fan because they are solely a marketing company
in the 70s police radio came over my stereo when they were about to come to my door, hide the bong,all good.thanks to cheap gear.
All amps have negative feedback. Some use global, some local to the amplification stage. An amp without feedback is an oscillator. Speakers cable are connect to low impedance loads from even lower impedance amplifiers. You would need miles of cable to pickup noise. The low impedance load and output of the amp will act as a drain to this noise you are so concerned with.
My Decware single ended triode tube amp. specifically states NO NEGATIVE FEEDBACK in the user manual.
@@ronniecramer1252 that is called marketing!
Clearly digital transmissions can be heard on audio cable. My speaker cable used to pick up my old cell phone. It was a staticky shuffle beat whenever my phone was pinging the network. I have super high efficiency horns, so that's a big reason, but the noise certainly gets on the line. When I used to record with a classical ensemble we all had to keep our phones off of the stage for the same reason, the mics would pick up the static. It wasn't enough to have them on silent. I don't think Danny's points here are very persuasive here, but my conclusion is that cables matter. But I have cheap cable because it doesn't matter as much as some other stuff and I'm not made of money.
@Douglas Blake As good a place/person to get an opinion (or hell, maybe even a fact) . So if this interference is being picked up by the speaker cable and can be heard in the speaker surely we'd be able to hear it all the time? The fact that we can't implies that the interference is picked up by the electronics and amplified, not by a bit of wire! Thoughts?
"There is a whole industry behind this, trust me, it is real"
exactly 😂😂😂😂😂
For f sake, why don't you actually show the noise that's being picked up by the speaker from "bad" cables. Measure the output of the speaker itself and compare that using different cables. Is that so hard? That would debunk ANY argument.
Because it doesn't change the speaker output. At least not in measuring amplitude. It doesn't work that way. It's like this. If you are talking to someone in a crowded cafeteria, the noise levels of other people talking doesn't change the volume level of your voice.
@Douglas Blake No, speakers can measure the same in every way and still sound very different. We proved that a long time ago. Check out this one: ua-cam.com/video/lmsMGILAYvk/v-deo.html
Oh, and don't miss the sound clips. Most people can even hear the differences in a compressed UA-cam file.
@@dannyrichie9743 I don't understand how comparing speakers that are different is justification for your beliefs. The frequency response from these clips has been extracted and analyzed before for comparison. They sound slightly different because they are slightly different. But you knew that already. Funnier then that, you guys accidently labeled A & B incorrectly in one of the examples! Why didn't anyone notice?? You continue to mislead people.
Evidence:
www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/capacitor-upgrade-in-crossover-you-cant-handle-the-truth-part-3.12555/
@@LouGuido Ha, ha, ha, how funny. I did not know that their panties were in such a wad over there that they would go to such great lengths to disprove anything that conflicts with their beliefs.
And they think that a huge difference in clarity, detail, imaging, spaciousness, and sound stage layering is all because of a super slight difference in a measured amplitude from a uploaded UA-cam file.
That is super funny, but I still feel bad for them that they are that lost. Wow!
The only people being mislead are the people that listen to that dribble on that site. That is a total disinformation forum.
Im so happy to be one of those people who enjoy the sound of a good cable. And just for the record, A "Good" cable is a cable that makes the audio system perform at its best! Love your videos Danny :-)
@@Zenos174 ..If people only could get to read what you called me in your first reply before editing it... Well, I refuse to sink to that level of shame myself, So I will do my best to explain once again that the human ears/hearing is more complex than the manmade Oscilloscopes and other meassuring devices when it comes to analyzing the actual sound coming out of a audio system... Here goes nothing: "Measuring is not listening, But listening is the only way to measure good Sound" -Roy Willy Urdshals.
@@Zenos174 ..Ok ...."The beauty is in the eye/ear of the beholder" And just for the hell of it : Everything is relative...Even "Copper Wire"
@@Zenos174 -We don't receive wisdom, We must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us- And with that in mind, I would suggest that you try out different types of cables and find out for yourself :-)
@@Zenos174 Apology accepted Bob, We are only humans :-) When it comes to the price of cables, The truth is that in many cases they are not worth the price, And a DAC can be a far better upgrade. We might seem "Poles Apart" at first glance, But in reality we speak the same language, And we even got the same goal in mind : The best sounding system for the money spent ... Different approach thats all ;-)
@@Zenos174 There are people that dont believe components can influence the sound enough to be significant, but every little change of cable lenght even will bring some kind of change, togeather, its not significant, its the only thing that matters about sound... The chain analogy in sound chain is not straight forward as a metal chain, so the weakest link will not allways be the auditory problem, but you can easily annihilate the high end sistem sound by just changing the speaker wire or whatever you change with cheap thing, you will hear the effects, so yes, cable is as important as anything, it just depends if you are happy with your sound sistem performance... If you seek fidelity, decay, low jitter or else, you need well designed device with high quality of every single component inside... This channel is great for researching that kind of stuff
It would be interesting to have you and the Audioholics guys have a discussion. I think the ultimate test is to listen after all the measurements are done. I have yet to see measurements coorelated with listening quality.
I have invited Gene over many times.
I watched video #1 and I did think it was a strange way to show a speaker cables ability to improve sound but I did not dismiss it. I know that twisted pairs and shielding should help I just don’t know what difference it will make to my ears. I was hoping you would have found a dirty system and measured the speaker output to display on a graph then replace the basic wires with top spec speaker cable then retest and over lay the graphs to show the audible difference. Looking forward to a 3rd video 🤔🧐 A quick question is the speakers sensitivity going to make a difference? Example is a higher sensitivity speaker more likely to make any unwanted noise more audible be a low sensitivity speaker.
It doesn't cost up to 30 grand a pair for shielded speaker cable. It's special alloys and extrusion techniques as well.
There seems to be a high positive correlation between those who are deaf and those who have anger issues ...
What I did is put all my cables (HDMI, RCA, power cords and speaker wire) in the freezer for 24 hours. Than I put them in my Traeger Ironwood smoker and smoked them on low at 165 degrees for 10 hours on the super smoke setting. A combination of Hickory and Mesquite pellets were used. I’m telling you, that by the end of the 10 hours, I was so hungry that I ate all the cables! I wasn’t prepared for what happed next. When I farted and burped both seemed to resonate and project more and had a midrange that sounded warm and buttery. The smoked HDMI cable made my eyes have a pixel count so high, I could see all the way to Jupiter without the use of a telescope! No more carrots for me! What do you know! Cables do make a difference! 🤣 This comment is for entertainment purposes only and is purely satirical, highly sarcastic!
I'm one of those people who has a EE degree.
If the tests you were part of were fair and blind, then I suppose that's some data.
You may have a point that some amplifiers are more sensitive than others.
But here's what I don't understand. You can very easily listen to an emply signal on a system. That's essentially your noise floor, right?
I feel like if you have an setup sensitive to present EMI/RFI then that simple test would prove that out.
You could even ramp up the gain to listen to the noise floor.
If it's nothing audible, I feel like any of these effects are moot for that system.
Also, I found the casual insinuation that digital signals are fragile to EMI/RFI noise disingenuous. Bits do flip. This is known. But it's not nearly as common as you insinuate. And for this test, you really don't need to listen to anything.
Just stream a giant file across UBS and do a hash check on the source and the copy.
The percentage of loss can be easily quantified. If it's nothing, or a handful of bits (if there is no error correction when streaming over USB), it simply can not be something worth caring about.
Preach!
@Douglas Blake yeah, I mean, I think bad arguments are really made by people on both sides.
It's just not a dialog of much substance.
I keep on watching these cable/interconnect videos hoping someone actually tries to address the things I brought up in my response. But instead they just fall back to the same arguments.
Not sure how much the incentive to monetize their channels with click bait affects this lack of dialog.
Plug in your 1200 W microwave next to your stereo and see how it sounds when you're cooking a hot pocket
And which part of your stereo system is most influenced by that microwave? The input signals, the internal electronics, or the output speaker cables?
The smell of the hot pocket will affect the sound.
I thought we were talking about speaker cables? 100% copper is 100% copper.
Either it works right or it doesn’t.
Again, you need to do the coat hanger vs expensive speaker cable.
Are Ferrite Core Choke Clips not good anymore to reduce/eliminate/filter noise?
Very well said 👍
I remember when Paul McGowan was building the new PS audio building they installed all the LED lights and they had an issue with that as well because they were causing so much noise. They had to go change out all of their lighting because it was affecting in a negative way.
This is actually an RF interference issue. If you use speaker wire that has large runs of the conductors by themselves, or does not have a uniform RF impedance long its length, it will pick up RF noise. I live around 500 feet from a 10 kW commercial AM broadcast transmitter, and I have to be careful with cable and speaker runs, or I will get AM broadcast material in the audio. Properly run 2-conductor copper speaker cable, though, is fairly RF tight and there is no trace of the AM, even on a scope provided they're terminated properly.
My convenient circuit was too contaminated ,so I have been forced to plug in to a different circuit .do you think braided cable would help ?
Snake oil salesmen seem to be getting scared, people are out there telling the truth about their scams these days.
In my younger days still living with my parents. I used to have a good audio system setup in my room. Sounded great until my father turned to his HF radio's he's stil a radio amateur back then builded big amps with 1000 watts on 80meter radio band. As soon as he get his voice into that radio from hell I couldn't listen to my audio set anymore. The antenna was 35 meters up to the roof of the flat building. It even came over the power 220v and over the loadspeakers cables it distorted the signal. Even my mom couldn't watch the TV set.
Now this maybe a extreem case but now I'm 40 years later living on my own nice house etc etc and a much beter sound system. But still if I use regular speaker wire and change it back to a good quality twisted audio cable. It's like an on and off switch with the sound stages. I know your right. Keep up the nice video's I'll watch them.
Your description of Ham Radio interference is undoubtedly true...but the distortion you heard was not from the speaker cables inside the TV. TV's receive their signals from radio frequency receivers, so of course they can be interfered with by high power radio transmitters. RF signals in no way interfere with audio cables or speakers which are not capable of reproducing ultra high frequency radio waves.
One Kilo watt at that frequenties spitt into everything. I know. But I didn't hear the CQ calling or other amateur sounds, no it distorted the sound stage you hear all instruments, true but direction and where sounds are in the listening area where numb. My father stopped transmitting and bang soundstage is back. If the power is so great at 1 Kilowatt then it distort the LF audio. Well oké in highend and with all kinds of computer noises, adapters in wall sockets and so on the amount of distortion is much less offourse but if I test it with normal copper wire shit cable of 50 cents a meter and compare it with a descent priced twisted audio cable the differance is there. That's what I experience.
Audioholics want a word with you!!! 😮
Ok, I'll start by saying I'm still generally skeptical of a lot of cable claims (especially from "industry" sources who, yes, are selling stuff), BUT... a quick anecdote to explain why the "we don't hear MHz" thing is true but wrong about The Issue With Noise:
Years ago, an old gf had one of those cheapo record-player-in-a-box things I think they sell at like, Target now. One quiet night, I suddenly start wondering what that rhythmic noise is that I'm hearing in the dark. Party in the neighborhood? No, it doesn't get louder near the window... it's coming from... the plugged-in but turned-off record player. Closer... it's the needle (stylus, whatever shut up, nerds). What's the sound it's making?
It's... "tsk, tsk, tsk-tsk, tsk.... Escucha a Ciente-cinco Siete Regeton y Mas!"
Something (the tone arm I'm guessing?) was exactly the right length to pick up the local 105.7 radio station crystal clear, and whatever power leakage there was in the system was vibrating the needle, not at 105.7 MHz, but at the KHz-range frequency of the electromagnetic modulations centered around 105.7 MHz. Like, exactly how FM radio works.
This makes me want to test TP cables like cat 6 to use for some tests but 5p be honest I used lamp cables to speakers for a long time and can't hear anything different, but as I work with Computer networks I have some sense of interference ain Coax but even old TP cables. I even know of a Coax network close to an airport that had failed shielding and acted as an antenna caused the radar and all other traffic on the coax cable to get interference, I think there is sense and logic to what he explains on this video. But if I can hear this difference I don't think my kids already damaged my hearing, but I will try to braid some descent cable and see, have new speakers and amplifier coming soon so testing needs to be done :)
I was hoping this video would clear up or correct some of the issues with the old clip, but it was actually worse. Mr. Richie simply doubles down on his claims from the old video, and asks us to go to speaker cable company websites and drink their Kool Aid. Disappointing.
Mr. Richie, I asked you to do this video in my last comment, but I will repeat it here: Connect the different speaker cables into your audio system, and show us, with an audio analyzer, how the audiophile cables provide lower noise than the twisted pairs or zip cords. It is a simple and convincing test. If your claims are demonstrable, you should have no problem showing them.
Yes of coarse it’s a antenna but it’s matter of scale you measure the rf micro volts za micro vile is one millionth of a volt so the spear dosent react but does affect some power amp design many amp have a zobble network that isolate the circuit from any FN noise
Ignore the muppets...On YT everybody is a fooking Engineer...lolol
Except when we're actual engineers, and know without any doubt that he is wrong, or at least being dishonest to help keep his company propped up.
@@mysock351C Sadly, real Engineers also get things wrong as do scientists and doctors and very few of them can fully agree on things accept hardcore scientific FACTS (look at the Covid debacle where very Tom Dick and Harry is a Specialist)...but we now live in a society where many people out there wants to be spoon fed with information and lack the basic skills of doing their own research.
@@EasyFold007 Having parents that are both doctors (and treated covid patients) the whole covid thing was politically loaded from the start and used in very manipulative ways. But that's a story for another day. But _rarely_ will people be as wrong as Danny is here. There is some truth to what he says, but its badly skewed and misapplied at best. It begs the question of what his actual motives are: Does he believe it? Or is he doing it to help support his business as it sells the very same thing he purports to be examining. It smacks of ulterior motives.
I appreciate your video learning series... thank you for working to educate the masses... Thank you Danny.
The deniers "those people" have NO CLUE about what they are talking about... any [RFI or EMF] signal on the speaker cable gets into amplifier through the feedback loop and DIRECTLY influences the [amplifiers performance] overall sound of the amplifier... "All cables sound the same" "all capacitors and passive components sound the same" to some engineering types, are simply often unwilling to invest in areas of their playback system...
I'm not a "denier" because I refuse to test or understand, I deny all the claims of RF causing issues on speaker cable because I do understand the basics of electronics. The main understanding you need is signal to noise ratio, the noise signal is there on an unshielded straight cable from RF, no one is denying it. It is a thing, it does exist. The issue several people have brought up on the previous video is that the signal level the RF causes is not significant enough to be audible in any capacity in even the most efficient speaker designs. Put another way; no RF signal (unless you live next to a high amplitude microwave transmitter, which would mean other issues like being a burnt crispie) is going to drive a speaker. If you have an amplifier design that uses feedback from the cable, you won't hear the RF either as the ratio of the 1-20 watt signal to a milliwatt (and that's the worst case extreme) RF signal would make it inaudible also.
Here's a simple test, plug any wire you like into your speaker, wire it up to a large antennae if you like to really go for it, and listen for any sound. Use the most sensitive microphone you can source and test the background noise and the speaker wire plugged in and look for a difference in audio levels. Know what you'll see or hear? That's right nothing, RF signals aren't strong enough to drive a speaker at all.
Poorly shielded amplifiers will pick up RF and make it heard. Also interconnection cables can pick up RF and then pass that on to the amplifier. Funny he never mentions those at all. Must not be a product he sells.
@@wetwareinterface3977 only AM RF signals will get picked up, and this is only with poor amp designs. I live very close to a radio station and I hear..... Nothing from my amp with its cheap eBay cables. FM radios operate in the Megahertz bands so unless you have superhuman hearing... You're going to hear nothing.
It seems Question Everything here is using confirmation bias to basically... Ignore a foundational understanding of electronics and not... Question a video without blind besting or measurements. Ironic.
I just learned a new word today, here in my old country where we still use horses, witches & garlic for banning Covid & other stuff...
Industry ! Oh my gush, what is that ? Seems great. Are u sure ?
The fact that an entire industry exists to make cables intended to reduce RF ingress simply demonstrates a triumph of marketing over fact.
A fool and his money.....
For digital transmissions we have the benefit of a protocol. A good protocol overlays extra bits to tell or correct errors occuring. In the case of telling there is sufficient bandwidth to allow retransmission without interruption. If a digital transmission has so much noise that this bandwidth is used up, most protocols will cause buffer underruns and gaps rather than analogue artefacts so quite easy to hear. Noise in a digital system can only be interpreted as a 1 or 0 by the receiver. There are no other states
According to danny, with better cables, the protocol have a easier job and less to correct, making a better picture. That, or pieces of 1's or 0's slippes through the protocol, infecting you picture.
@@djmadrox7539 yes I think that is what Danny is getting at. However the bitrate far exceeds that required to listen at high resolution without degredation. Even allowing for resends and if that happens you'll hear gaps. Not quality loss.
What is your thoughts on ferrite core use on speaker wires?
@Douglas Blake i have been debating using them as my thoughts were with so many wires running close together would this create noise in your speaker lines?
An excerpt from a recent REL Acoustics Blog Article: Revisiting Bassline Blue
"Something clearly had to be done, you see we’re not one of those head-in-the-sand audio companies that doesn’t believe that cables make no difference. We’ve known for almost 40 years that for speaker cables, interconnects, HDMI and digital-not to mention a/c-we can hear the benefits when they get it right and the downside when it’s poorly executed. Like it or not, cables matter and the flat earth audio types can complain all they want but they’re simply in denial. But connecting to our impedance environment is unique and this is where conventional cable companies get it wrong."
Why are the wires inside the speakers so thin and cheap?
When something doesn't allow signal in ( such as shielded cables) there not filters. Their shielding the cables from allowing interference into the cable. Filters allow signal in and change the signal before the signal gets let out. Your loosely using the word " Filter". You don't understand what you're talking about yourself. This is education for you personally. A Filter allows signal in and sends the signal out in a different frequency. Shields BLOCK ALL interference from getting into the cables.
Well I looked up the prices and some are absolutely ridiculous. Tens of thousands of dollars for a pair of speaker cable? Even $500 for a pair of 1 meter RCAs is pretty expensive. I dont contend that it doesnt help. I contend that the snake oil is the cost.
I'm not defending any of their prices.
Danny,
Then why recommend them? Your products offer outstanding performance and excellent value. It is not great engineering when cost is no object. Sure, there are amazing luxury products of all kinds that show the ultimate possibilities. Anyway, who makes great value cables, that reject noise well?
Good video, Danny. And all true. I have older but good system components and after we moved to our new house I was very disappointed with the sound. Initially I was suspecting the aging components, but decided to spend some free time tweaking the system. I noticed that only a few feet from the electronics (CD, preamp & power amp, tuner) I have a DECT cordless phone, and two wifi routers. Then it struck me: three RF transmitters! I re-wired the supply to my power block with 16 feet of Belden *shielded* mains cable and could finally plug it into the *shielded mains circuit* I had put in when the house was built. Transformation #1! Sound more dynamic, better bass, more space round instruments, more energy in the highs.
I have good power cords (Kimber) but they needed some help in this harsh environment: I forgot that I used to have ferrite cores around them at the point of entry into the equipment. Replaced: another improvement of the same kind. And then I added an iFi Purifier to help with a clean earth and spike suppression. This is less noticeable but it certainly doesn't hurt.
The other two improvements had to do with *physical isolation* : all electronics now on sorbothane or silicone rubber damping feet: more neutrality; then the loudspeakers are now on silicone damping feet: this is major transformation #2 : no more excitation of my CONCRETE floor (yes, really) MUCH freer mid and highs and deeper bass. Now my system sings! It never sounded so good in the 34 years I have had the amplifier, 20 years the speakers and ~4-5 years the CD player.
Primare CD32-->Audioquest Lapis-->Exposure XII (+Exposure XI PSU)--->Audioquest Lapis--->Exposure VIIS-->Kimber 'Crystal 24' (2x 12TC)-->KEF Reference Three Fours.
I should maybe now reevaluate the two pairs of Kimber KCAG that other equipment is using. They were originally swapped out because they were not revealing enough, bass light and highs too rolled off. I hope your viewers can relate to my experience. Now I learned (after 50 years in the hobby!) power must be very clean and abundant (no restriction/constriction) and equipment MUST be physically isolated. FYI Max Townshend does a great video on this topic. All the best, Rob in Switzerland
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
If noise is being picked up, it should show up on a spectrum analyzer between 20 Hz and 20 KHz. That's a very simple test... why do none of the sites you link to use this test? A good spectrum analyzer is much more sensitive than our ability to hear. Can't help but feel like this is dodged a lot.
It would be nice if you jumped in with technical details. I think everyone is tired of "well I'm gonna skip the technical mumbo jumbo and talk about it like this".
A "spectrum analyzer" is designed to pick up info coming out of or into RCA or XLR out/inputs, it won't show noise on your cable line in great detail, for that you will need an oscilloscope or voltmeter or some other device designed to pick-up that kind of signal. These signals are often very low and kind of like "white-noise" before they are amplified to the point where we're able to hear them on speakers.
The obvious and correct answer is that showing that data actually disproves the claim being made here. So it isn't shown and sciencey words are thrown around instead.
@Douglas Blake I don't think Danny is claiming it can't be quantified, but he claims his FM antenna test is all the needed proof, which is almost as bad since it's a test measuring the wrong thing... exactly what he's telling us to watch out for!
@Douglas Blake I'd even be willing to go with shown to exist at all. Even if it's not understood.
For some odd reason though Danny doesn't think controlled listening can show that differences exist. When you let that sink in you have to wonder how you can prove anything to him.
Measurements apparently can't prove anything and controlled listening also can't prove anything. What is the arbiter? His UA-cam videos?? He's definitely the first guy I've seen go all in on this sort of logic path in UA-cam "audiophile" videos.
The word "interconnects" Established because people won't spend mega bucks for cables. "Hey, look at my interconnects, I don't use cables as I am elite"
where is your bulk cable made? what country i mean?
Wauw. Maybe this is the answer to why i find my Kimber Cables so good sounding. I've had them for many years, and they are by no means 'state of the art' cables with fancy colours and 100 bucks connectors. Just plain VS 4's i think.... 🤔 I have tried some others over the years, but all with less enjoyable debth and withs in the soundstage, and sometimes harsch as well. Thats why the Kimbers have stayed here so long 🙂 Just can't do without soundstage.... Thanks for the great vids Danny! Greetings from Denmark 🇩🇰
I have done several blind tests many years ago, I and my friends could not hear any difference in cheap 6mm2 speaker cables and expensive, only when comparing thin with thick we could hear any difference. However in signal cables there were no trouble at all, there were huge differences between them, mostly in clarity and higher frequensys. The test was performed on a 12k$ Sony SACD ES setup, not a very high end but ok-ish and we could switch cables in a couple of seconds which made the test easier.
How about a twisted stranded copper 12 guage pair that is shielded?
I have tried twisted stranded copper 12 gauge (two wires twisted & four wires braided) 2 wires twisted improvement over zip cord, 4 wires braided improvement over twisted. I have just completed one of Danny's 24 wire speaker cables and a much larger improvement over four wires of twisted 12 gauge wire.
Danny You are right. I live in RF Central Heathrow one side Northolt (air ports) on another + local town centre with communication aerials then multiple phone masts if you take a capacitor insert it in a wire from my switched off amplifier case to earth the cap charges. Since I plaited my all valve system mains cables and attached ferrites. When I was a lad Dad worked for the BBC so like the studios I visited all star earthed. The final task was making cross connected co -ax speaker cable for my Quad 57's low inductance & rejects interference so no buzzes, clicks, hum or mains transformer noise, sounding as quiet as broadcast quality in the1950's
Good points, John. I see Russ Andrews is cashing in on the aftermarket earthing idea now. Of course we can DIY, I'm tempted to give it a go and see what a difference it makes. All the best, Rob
I’d say this hits the nail on the head - if you think you have issues with RF being induced into the output stage of your amplifier then you should look at the way the grounding has been done.
RF being induced on mic level input stages - we see that all the time,
noise being induced from lighting dimmers on the same phase - yep,
RF being “reamplified by negative feedback” - someone screwed up the amplifier design.
Cables are cables huh? No sound difference Huh? OK.. Real story.. My story.. I worked @ Circuit City.. We started carrying Monster Cable, and yes I still like monster cable and always will, for this reason. I had a nice system at the house.. HK avr, Carver seperate amp, Polk spkers and a Velodyne FSR sub.. but with the cables that came with it or the red and white regular cables.. no biggie right.. I went to a class taught by Noel Lee himself in Dallas.. I sort of bought into it and figured I would start with the 200 line of cable.. if it makes a difference cool.. if not I did not spend much money.. so I hooked it up and was listening to it.. My girlfriend at the time (who could give two shits about audio), came in the room.. sat for a bit.. and got up looking at the speakers and equipment.. I asked "what are you doing?"... she then accused me of buying new equipment.. now at that moment I was sold.. Many of us can hear differences and live for great sound.. but for someone who did not give one iota of damn about it.. to hear it.. acknowledge it and go looking for it to acuse me of "New" ... SOLD! JS.. I got the same speech when I upgraded to the 400mk II cables.. JS.. if you want to see results.. play for someone who is not vested.. Just a thought
Having formerly worked for 20 years in design and installation of large format disco and stadium sound systems, my experience with speaker cables for best results was low impedance and short as possible. We employed heavy gauge (2.5mm to 4mm copper ) 2 core flex for low power losses which was (by co incidence) twisted in construction. We found that any noise that was introduced into the systems was to be found in the signal processors before the power amplifiers, such as the mixers, active crossovers and other processors. Using high quality signal cable (Belden 8761) and connectors in the signal path before the power amps was essential to achieving super low noise floors and high clarity.
I might add that we were very particular about having fully dedicated AC power circuits provided for all of the audio system elements and once again heavy gauge power cables..
As for components in passive crossover networks , I totally agree with using high quality metalized Poly caps, air core inductors and quality resistors, they are key to providing proper response from quality drivers. So while not totally convinced on the braided speaker cables virtues I am open to the possibility
I use Belden too, the spec are there.
Thanks by the way. I'll go back to what I used in the 1970s for ant wire, phone cable seems cat5e isn't a good hd TV ant.
Some guy on a video said he used a coat hanger in a listening test with $5000 speaker wires and people can't tell the difference I'm so confused on this subject I agree with Danny it makes perfect sense but people still don't agree. When I build my speakers I use ofc braided like he does in people on diy groups tell me it's a waste it's dimensioning returns blah blah blah but I have one chance to design my speakers right and I would rather spend a little extra money than have any problems. He made sense to me ..
The glowing facts are the speakers a) do not have the frequency response to even respond to RF signals, b) even if they did the signals don't have enough energy to drive a speaker, c) the human ear cannot hear RF no matter what. The worst possible outcome from Speakers Cables picking up RF is damage to the amplifier by causing high power oscillations...however, I'm assuming you have good quality power amplifiers that filter out RF at the output (any amplifier worth its salt already has an RF filter at the speaker outputs, and power supply, and input stage). Nevertheless, showing that a Speaker Cable can act as an antenna does not in any way prove it can 'sound better' than one that doesn't. See above. Also, the LENGTH of the cable is what determines whether it is a good antenna or not (unless said cable has an RF filter of course). The reason the receiver is responding is because the RF signal is being AMPLIFIED inside the receiver. A strong broadcast FM signal is 1mV/m (-60dBu). That's about 1,000,000 times LESS energy than it takes a speaker to make the faintest of sounds. If it isn't amplified by specialized high gain RF amplifier, audio equipment has NO HOPE of responding to it. Moreover, even if you're convinced such a test proves anything, all you need is a $2 RF choke to clip on your cable. Done.
I think there is a ton of snake oil out there. However I know that there is a difference between poor quality and good quality and better quality can improve sound. I have experienced it myself. But it is challenging to find good bang for the buck. It is all part of the journey.
She Said, Big cables matters...he say no it don’t...😂
If you can’t hear any different, your system is just mass produced in a certain price range...🙂👍
If we could hear the interference you are talking about, we would not need radios. We would just be able to hear radio stations all the time.
When Danny says " MIT CABLES" he's not referring to the college MIT. He's talking about Music Interference Technology. It's a company built on getting frequencies out of audio cables.