Massive Nerfs for Sisters Of Battle?
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
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I think in the context of 10th were everything is nerfed, the SOB are looking pretty good.
Nerfed* Soon TM, until when codex creep hits.
@@acetraker1988 I mean, Sisters will be buffed too, so it's not that bad, plus i think the Votan players are much more affected by the nerfs than the SoB players.
gw: vehicle toughness going up
Alexis: that's illegal
I’m pretty sure Lethal hits is auto wound on a 6 not mortal wounds and mortal wounds is devastating Wounds
This is correct Lethal hits Auto wound, devasting wounds (wound roll of 6) turns the attack to mortal wounds.
Morgan Val with the Triumph of Saint Katherine has 6s to hit causes auto mortal wounds I think. That is kind of nuts.
Regular Units don’t grant Miracle Dice on death, only Characters and Repentia. If you are playing Order of our Martyred Lady, then you can get 1 Miracle per Phase if any of your Units are destroyed.
been play OML a lot lately
I remember fondly the times where 2 Squads of Battle Sisters embarking from Rhinos could light up Terminators with AP1 on 6s to hit. Really hope the Blessed Bolts stratagem of 9th gets expanded to all bolt weapons or something, which would mitigate the lack of dedicated anti tank quite a bit. Also Lethal Hits in melee from St. Katherine might help there. Was really hoping Multi Melta would have S12 or something. Plus 18" seems pretty bad. : (
I thought that all the factions were getting a nerf. The amount of mw that the canoness could do was wild
Lethal Hits is 6s auto wound. Devastating Hits is 6s do MW.
Devastating Wounds*
The CSM 2 attack boltgun represents the old rule, "Malicious Volleys"
Meltas aren't anti tank anymore they seem like anti heavy infantry.
anti-medium vehicle and brutes (ie high wound thigh toughness models like crisis suits and warriors).
A role that didn't used to exist because plasma and melta was the solution to everything.
This is a way different view than what auspex tactics mentioned. From the way he described it the battle sisters got a buff. I guess we have to wait and see when it's all officially out.
Personally I think he is overall right. Generally anti-infantry weapons have gotten worse (between twin-linked returning + the ap drops) as well as the +1 to wound with half strength
I mean I've been playing sisters since 5th edition in and out of tournaments for over 15+ years and I can do math. This is an army with what's currently known will not be a top 3 army going into 10th. Hell its mid at best. there are some good things but most things are going to kill sisters to well for them to be able to counter attack or even hold objectives effectively.
@@NornQueenAlexis Whats currently known?! We know 2 datasheets. Some weapons, 1 stratagem. We dont even know what the core rules are completely yet.
This is hyperbole at its worst. Maybe wait till we have some more information before jumping to conclusions?
@@PaintCelestine no this is math based off their avaliable information. Watch the video.
@@NornQueenAlexis Sounds like neither buff nor nerf. Haven't seen Sisters do particularly well recently. : ( Fielding them at a tournament recently they really feel fragile and are pretty much locked into playing completely defensive unless terrain provides a solid outpost for our kinda large footprint. Unless Rhinos or basic girls get cheaper, I don't see that change.
I guess NornQueen simply confused some rules regarding the miracle dice. Atm only martyred lady gets Dice for own non character units (and it's limited to 1 per phase) - this is not Vengeance. In accordance with new rules each time something dies in sister army they get MD its immediate and not limited to 1 per phase. So its a lot of more miracle dice than usual but you can't use two dice at once for charge of battle shock.
been play OML for the past 10 games so yeah thats on me.
To answer your question: Yes. They gain miracle dice for holding objectives, dying, destroying units with battle sisters, and likely more. They have some insane out of line of sight shooting. And they received the same nerfs to AP everyone else has had.
This seems very biased for 9th edition, and doesn’t look at the fact that they are nerfing every single faction in the game. This is the seventh preview, and looks like no one looked at any of the previous ones. This is just click baiting
They lost almost no AP to any weapons that will matter. In "fact" their weapon profiles stayed mostly the same just some are a bit more random with amount of shots. The nerf is that things got more tough and if you watched the video you would understand my points.
17:00 I’m pretty bad at math too, that’s why I let the supercomputer that fits in my hand do it.
also keep in mind the general changes across the all the armies so some things that seem nerfs are actually good
Well... what kind of comments are you looking for?
Blast is now +1 attack per 5 models
I play sisters and guard and looking at whats been released so far for 10th ed I am happy with both factions.
Bear in mind we are only seeing a fraction of the rules , datasheets for anyone. We do know Vehicle toughness has increased and the lack of a strength increase on melta weapons could be an issue guess thats where all the miracle dice are going to be used. We still need to see the full codex but if the simulacrum and cherubs are generic to all units we are going to be generating a hell of a lot of miracle dice to guarantee wound rolls if needed.
Theres also the promised new unit for every faction.
Sisters really need a Lord of War. Something like along the lines of a flying Super Heavy "Auto-Shrine" which would be a toned down Auto-Temple. I remember seeing in some Sisters of Battle art flying constructs that look the part.
Necron/guard player here, "order of martyrs" made me chuckle because it'a a very similar situation to reanimation protocol, but it's an offensive buff instead of defensive/board control.
The enemy has 1 full turn to negate your ability, could mean you'll never get to use it in a game.
Other than that, seems like a fine faction... strange they didn't show an anti tank profile, but a melta+faith dice should be ok
As a normie that's been sucked in to this world by the Astartes series and Bricky's factions breakdown, I love hearing you two nerd out over the tabletop.
Well they ain't Space Marines.
GW did say lethality would be going down across the board. The other faction reviews have had similar reductions in AP and/or damage. There also seems to be an emphasis on re-establishing the durability and battlefield role of armored vehicles. I don't think it's really fair to look at their rules under 9th and call this preview a "nerf". Sisters actually look like they stack up pretty well against the other faction previews.
New Miracle rules should generate similar numbers than the 1 per phase for killing stuff + Character deaths depending on the number of units fielded in 10th. I'd call that a sidegrade. Makes for a balance between fielding msu and big blobs, which reminds me of earlier editions Miracles. Can't say I hate it. Always felt bad when I managed to overkill one turn, but nothing in the next, missing out on dice there.
Might be interesting to actually do the math there:
Assuming we get 3 Rounds to kill stuff in Shooting before Resources are depleted. And 4 of our own to kill stuff in melee, plus the occasional repentia fighting on death. Plus maybe 3 characters getting assassinated, plus 2 from the stratagem, plus some from Repentia dying. Plus optional 3 or 4 from Katherine before she perishes. Makes 17+ w/o the turn based ones. Which feels optimistic compared to actual experience. That is pretty much the number of units I currently field, including Rhinos. So assuming not everything dies, but we have other means to generate Miracle Dice, should be around the same, if not more.
think we need to see the full picture. I thought some of the sisters stuff jumped out as quite powerful. The indirect fire which seemingly ignores all of the indirect penalties looked quite pushed.
There is some really good stuff but a lot of bad
Battle sisters squad got a decent glow up. There is a reason to take them now. Bit concerned at what I see is a distinct lack of anti tank (it’s not meltas anymore) - except for miracle dice maybe
They also lost combi weapons. They lost shield of faith, they lost the ability to negate psychic powers, they lost rerolls (as far as we know) meltas are not as good.
@@NornQueenAlexis They gained a 6++ Shield of Faith save.
@@PaintCelestine they had that.... they could also improve it to a 4++ but what do I know I've only played the army for 10 years
@@NornQueenAlexis Congrats? Not sure what relevance your experience has on this conversation but ok.
Yes they could have a 4++, but in my experience they never did, as it involved both a warlord trait that wasn't really taken and also a prayer that also wasn't really taken.
Id rather focus on the Miracle dice farm that BSS can grant by sitting on objectives, which already makes regular battle sisters usable.
@@PaintCelestine it's almost like I'm speaking from experience....
So without the basic rules, you can really say very little whether some armies have been nerfed, we should delete everything that we have about the 9.Edi. knew the 10th Edi. is completely new and different
We can still do basic math and see what armies will preform worse in 10th
@@NornQueenAlexis Well, the Sisters seem very strong to me with their Miracle dices and in the combo with The Triumph of Saint Katherine
@@Alpharius1980 they lost options, meltas are less effective, they can't deny the witch, they lost shield of faith, they lost combi weapons. The TOSC is good but takes up an HQ slot and is expensive. It's also better with sacs then battle sisters. Please watch the entire video
only thing I agree with is the TOSC looks fun
@@NornQueenAlexis No more HQ Slots.
All power weapons shown so far are ap -2. As far as we know "power swords" as an individual weapon no longer exist. So everybody got nerfed on that. Yay??
Miracle dice everywhere and plenty of chances to use them!
Hey Alexis you have some mistakes in your video. Rapid Fire no longer doubles the number of attacks rapid fire is now written like this [Rapidfire x, while at half range add x shots], so the math ends the same Base 1 plus 1 rapid Fire 1 for rapid fire, but order of math does not apply.
Leaders: Okay here you had a few things that as I understand it might be a bit off. First, leaders can only join a select group of squads found on the opposite side of the data card. Likely Sacrosants will be there, as well as regular Celestians, Repentia are unlikely because the units lead either have similar stats (toughness, save) but keeping them nearby to get the aura is an option. Another thing to look at is that to my knowledge leaders don't take damage until the unit is wiped.
Battle Sisters datasheet: This is only the front half the data card. The back half of the data card includes all the unit composition, weapons options, ect like we saw with the chaos marines and the guard.
All power weapons share the same profile. Space Marine power weapon is S5 AP-2 D1
Exorcist Missiles:
New blast is for every 5 guys in a squad you get +1 shot. Meaning you put those missiles into a 20 person guard unit you get 3d6+4 shots. That's nothing to sneeze at. that is minimum 7 shots max 22, average 14.5 or 14/15 shots. Blast got a MAJOR buff and makes blast weapons very good anti horde weapons.
You are right, my bad
@@NornQueenAlexis I know this stuff because I watch your channel, Auspex, Bricky, Tactical Tortious, and read the articles. So I've been getting a lot of feedback and understanding on things.
damn, I cant watch any 40k channels they don't catch my interests. Its not tiny homes or silly videos
"This was always a thing"
Reads rules:
"Vengeance
Any ADEPTA SORORITAS units from your army destroy one or more enemy units.
Sacrifice
Any ADEPTA SORORITAS CHARACTER units from your army are destroyed."
Nope.. Cant see that it was "always a thing", unless you played the Martyred Lady order
*Morale Test swapped with Battle-shock test
I play a lot of OML
@@NornQueenAlexis Fair enough :)
Auspex doesnt agree lol
Sisters of battle lost Auspexs
@@NornQueenAlexis sorry I meant the guy Auspex tactics, he thinks theyre strong. I personally hope sisters stay strong, ever sisters player I played against put a ton of effort into their army
they look mid at best. tank spam will be the way of 10th
nah they got crazy miracle dice generation now
yes they do and they are just a farm till anything looks at them and they die.
Substituted vs modified dice.
I'm wondering if you have to just save up all your miracle dice 4s and 5s for meltagun to wound rolls vs tanks...
thats going to be the plan so far with what we know.
devastating is mortal wounds, lethal is auto wounds
Katherine was (is) actually kinda viable, providing dice for Leap of Faith while also fueling 6s to nearby units. Never really felt like more than two abilities were really useful at any given moment, so I actually prefer having more useful ones to pick from now, even tho the mighty goblet of possibly inflicting one or so mortal wound is not there anymore. : D A bit overpriced rn, trading it for Celestine basically. And might be in the future. But that'll have to be seen.
I love TOSC I think its good not great but very fun in game.
You add the Rapid Fire [X] to the base value of the attacks within half range. "Storm bolters and power fists go together like cheese and wine. The former has a new-look Rapid Fire weapon ability that gives you extra shots within half range - so with Rapid Fire 2 on top of the weapons base Attacks value of 2, they can still fire four times within 12”." Community article 4th of April 2023
I was wrong on the rapid fire thing that was my bad, thinking 30k and thats a way better system
@@NornQueenAlexis True, but needs more love from GW.
Astred Thurga and Agathae Dolan can be useful in Crusade...
So, cannot really compare what was good in 9th vs 10th. Everything is seeing a significant decrease in offensive firepower. Anti-tank is rarer as a whole. However sisters should still be pretty darn good at it. Between miracle dice being able to guarantee a wound/set the damage very high as well as the if half strength/wounded enough the +1 to wound they will be able to do a lot more damage than expected. Futher we have seen 1 vehicle so far.
you can compare the 2 they play very similar and have similar rules and you can compare the math system of both to see how effective the shooting/wounding is.
@@NornQueenAlexis You also need to take into account things like loss of psychic phase, psychic powers getting nerfed, loss of deny the witch, and things like changes to key words like Rapid Fire (which you misquoted in your video), Blast (also quoted the 9th edition rule rather than the 10th), Lethal hits (which is mentioned several times) makes your analysis come off as shaky, Or at the very least very knee jerk without thought.
I disagree, this is a math and strategy game 1st. You can run all the statistics very quick and find out average damage output of units and the effectiveness of said units. Sisters lack of damage output without miracle dice is worrying as you are only getting 3 to 5 per turn assuming you can get on objective and stay there with sisters squads that lack survivability. this plus needing a rhino for them for early game point capping makes them less affective then they were. This however is all based on info at hand. Maybe the tank mounted MM will be better.
@@NornQueenAlexis Lack of survivability seems odd, when most armies weapons went down in AP. Sisters are the only ones to have everything stay the same. Likely your combi weapons will be the same as everyone else's that we have seen so far. So combi-flamer, melta, plasma is going away and repalced by Combi Weapon: Range 24", Rapid fire 1, devastating wounds, Anti Infantry 4+ , 1 A, s4, ap 0, D1 weapon.
Anti-Whatever is you always wound on at least this number, regardless of target toughness. Honestly I was shocked that Meltaguns did not have antivehicle 4+
Devastating Wounds A wound roll of a 6 converts damage to mortals, attack sequence ends for that die.
@@zyphier they are t3 and easy to kill from every army
this is still a current problem
Lmao Eldar just got Miracle dice but better...
Yeah they did
Sorry I need to get a my 40k ships to send a important transmission. Simple a ship that costed 40k to manufacture. I know how important sisters of battle are to you so I didn't want to well say anything. If I bother you it will be a stc which is how you and what you make of practically any and all of this, even my takes. This pretty much wounds. I was also considering making short video based on crime and horror stories, just sharing what. Up to.the Warhammer is dull. Oh by the way I ignore all people and the planet a lot so since this my be the last time we interact ever what I'm doing or have been doing does not include the presence of any people of planets. It was always take it or leave it. Sure I interact but I don't include. But eventually it will all go away.
What a crazy take lol
explain
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Watch the video before committing.
passive detachment ability is crap. we play with human opponents.
Why do you call it nerfs? They are the new rules, for new ruleset. So we are be at basic lvl of rules' power (with these rules in 10th). Only next rules' changes to these may be called "nerf" or "buff". Comparing new rules to old rules (current) is meanigless. :)
Cause anyone can do simple math and compare what has already been revealed with the other factions. Sisters lost combi weapons so squads lost a lot of tactical flexibility, Sisters hit worse than Space Marines with their heavy weapons when they use to hit roughly the same, they lost a point of leadership in the edition where failing that roll prevents you from scoring, Toughness being higher on vehicles and marines means weapons like melta and bolters are going to be even worse than they are especially since Spare Marines are going to be equal (Pyreflamer vs Ministorium) or better (Meltagun vs Meltarifle). It feels like the army is going be heavily reliant on miracle dice to fix their math and without they will be in general worse than even the humble guard infantry squad.
@@chrisbaldwin8570 I agree, when you compare 10th ed rules with 10th ed rules. Its meaningless to compare 9th and 10th and call it a nerf or buff. And yeah, vehicles will become much tougher, which they should've been.
I do wish Sisters could have some Toughness 4 units, but humans being T 3 is just what they are doing and I hate it. I think sisters will be playable, but they are going to change how they are played. It feels like a ton of things will be that way in 10e.
Click bait...
you should watch the video
@@NornQueenAlexis If you want people to watch, you shouldn't click bait them
guessing you did not watch. guess its not clickbait
@@NornQueenAlexis Guess I didn't fall for it...
@@BrokenHeartAtak are you sure?>