Robert E. Lee: "We are adrift in a sea of blood"
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- Опубліковано 16 сер 2010
- "I want this to be the final battle."
A clip from the epic movie Gettysburg, www.imdb.com/title/tt0107007/.
In my opinion the best civil war movie and one of the best war movies ever. - Розваги
“To be a good commander, you must be willing to order the death of the thing you love.”
Such a great line
"We are never prepared to lose all of us" echoes later with General Armistead "Not both of us, Not all of us!"
That was the most tragic moment
Don't forget Armistead and Renolds were close friends as well. All 3 were in California together.
“We are prepared to lose some of us, but we are never prepared to lose all of us.”
Such a powerful statement.
@The Hedgehog's Dilemma - Absolutely.
I'll have to say, the rebels came pretty damn close.
We are adrift in a sea of blood and i want it to end. I want this, to be the last battle.
Sacrifice. We are saved by the blood.
@@foolslayer9416 Up until Gettysburg, the South had the upper hand. Time was the South's enemy.
this dialogue between Lee and Longstreet is one of the highlights of this movie...
I loved longstreet when he says" better to lose the war,then admit the mistake"
@magnuslh84 - Definitely which is saying a lot because there are many great scenes in this film.
@@ARCtrooperblueleader absolutely, such as the scene with Longstreet and Armistead the night before the battle
History has proven Longstreet correct.
Lee, as great a general as he was made a disastrous mistake that may have cost the CSA the war..
I’m a native born Californian, my Mother was from Massachusetts and my Father was from Illinois, all of which remained in the Union during the Civil War. When I was seven back in 1961 it was the Centennial Anniversary of the start of the American Civil War. Dad was very pleased I was showing an interest in American History and when we went shopping one day he bought me a paperback of Matthew Brady’s photographs during the Civil War for 75 cents. Dad wanted me to learn that the people of that era were AMERICANS from all walks of Life and different outlooks on the War that superseded a dichotomous notion of Good versus Evil. I’ve taken that to heart ever since.
I wish more people knew that this one wasn't as one sided as they were taught, people nowadays think that the civil war was just about slavery, my great grandfathers who fought for the Union didn't fight only to free some slaves they didn't know, they fought because they were afraid for their families safety, same with my great family members who fought for the Confederacy too.
@@starred1096 Born and bred in the south. I have in my possession letters that have been passed down from generation to generation. My family were poor southern Scots-Irish and owned no slaves. In 1861 a man's country was his home state, and allegiance was owed to said state. In the letters, my distant grandfather describes the knowledge of a northern army being mustered to march down south. He expresses concern of his home and his family. Slavery is not mentioned in any of 24 letters. He was wounded during the Atlanta campaign at the Battle of Kennesaw Mountain. He did his duty as he saw fit, as would any man of worth. I'm afraid we are there again... In our version of 1861.
@@wesmliquid4561 As a person of the modern generation currently 19 years old I go to community college and have seen the bias and false info of the Civil War first hand, I was never taught it was even about the slavery until I reached puberty I was always taught the South wanted independence from the Union due to the increases in taxes and central government getting more involved in people's lives, which today I see to be more true than ever. As a North Carolinian every monument to the CSA I have witnessed torn down infuriates me more and more, the modern generation are nothing but indoctrinated idiots who know nothing of history or honor, just one of those brave men that fought for the CSA done more in their lives than those people tearing down statues ever have and ever will, vandalized the Confederate memorial in Raleigh and put up a plaque honoring a damn criminal simply cause his skin color, today's people being honored as heroes with these people are musical artists, athletes and actors who do nothing but get rich and don't give a damn about others even their fans except for the fact they got wealthy from them. Rather than our brave police, military and firemen who risk their lives daily to protect us.
There is no talk in Civil War history lessons on how Northern states had slaves just as well, one of the largest slave owners in the South was a black man or how it was the Democrats who were all pro-slave, which even today the Democratic party remains racist as hell acting like they own the black community. Sometimes I feel as if I'm part of a handful of enlightened people in todays generation that sees the real world.
@@Jarred-J254 I am also of the same generation as you, but grew up further north. Always had an interest in history, and so studied it heavily growing up on my own. Eventually the the history classes got to the civil war, and it was one of the worst things I have heard. They taught that the civil war was about slavery and nothing else, even going so far as to say that the "narrative of states rights was revisionist history" and called it the "lost cause narrative". I'm not saying that the civil war had nothing to do with slavery (just look at Mississippi's declaration), but that doesn't mean that it was only about slavery. Similarly, I am not fully saying that the civil war was only about states rights. The Civil war was a war, and no war has ever had an exact good and evil, nor a single reason/cause. The civil war was over slavery AND states rights AND so much more (such as relationship between he states and federal gov. and legality of secession). But it seems modern historians (that class was college level) and generations want to simplify what shouldn't be simplified and are trying to demonize the south. Hell, not even Ulysses s grant did that, nor Abraham Lincoln. Lee even spoke out about needing to repair the wounds (I also don't understand why people are trying to demonize lee even though lee wrote, and I quote, "So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I have rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be great for the interests of the south. So fully am I satisfied with this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained."). It saddens me, and it appears like things are only going to get worse.
btw, on your last paragraph about the democrat party, It seems some people haven't realized that, through all of US history, the democratic party has been the party of the elites, and has held things back tremendously. The two parties didn't "swap" in the 1960's, the elites moved and started marketing things differently.
I am a major general the army of Northern California a lot of people from California served in the Confederate States of America Army Navy Marine Corps I also have in my division a Scottish Brigade and a Chinese Brigade
It hurts so hard. My dad lost his leg and left testical and 1 1/2 of feet of intestines in Vietnam. You just want it to be over. Just a final end to the pain and violence. It's a horrible thing war. I don't wish it on anyone. Ever
@@MM-qi5mk Thank you for quoting my brother in arms
Military people are a different breed. I have friends I've served with that are closer to me than my family. Respect to your dad.
" “War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, - is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other.”
― John Stuart Mill
Sport to hear that thank him for his service yeah I hope we are never in a war with anybody EVER again
then maybe the confeds shouldnt have fired on ft sumter.
I will say this much. War is Hell, but there are still things in this world worth fighting for.
This part always makes me tear up. While Lee had made his choice, Longstreet was still bothered by it, as in this part, mentioning both Reynolds and Grant. I think Longstreet got a real raw deal after the war.
Absolutely right. Longstreet became the scapegoat. Unfair and Lee never would have stood for it.
@@daveblack2900In large part because he became a Republican, returned to Federal service, and heavily criticized Lee after the war, all things which made the former Confederate states hate him.
@@PhoenixT70 I mean in his defense, Lee lost them the war on a highly questionable chain of decisions that flew directly in the face of everything all of his supporting officers were telling him.
What was the raw deal he got?
It’s my favorite part of the book the killer angels and the movie
“We are prepared to lose some of us, but we are never prepared to lose all of us.”
Always gives me chills
I can see elements of what General Lee said in my 30 years in the Army.... It’s astonishing as I have read the words of some of these men on both sides just how much sense even today they make to me....
Thank for your service
What a speech, I'm from Pennsylvania but I have nothing but respect for Lee. Visiting Gettysburg is something everyone should do in their lifetime.
The Gettysburg farmers asked for Lee's autograph.
@@marknewton6984 Lee is overrated
@@James_Cy By whom? Certainly not by Civil War historians...or Lincoln and Grant.
@@marknewton6984 I'd say Lee was a decent general, but no amazing general would have ordered something like Pickett's Charge.
@@Master-MirrorLee was brilliant but in a hurry. He had 2 years to win. He ran out of men and supplies but did surprisingly well. The 3rd day of Gettysburg should not have happened. But it did...
The key scene of the movie. 3 minutes that explains Lee’s mindset and what drives his decision-making throughout the battle. Sheen was great in the role. Other than his height, I don’t understand the criticism of his portrayal.
bcask61 I suspect some of the criticism of Sheen’s portrayal is personal in that he’s a Democrat and liberal. I look at it this way when people argue who portrayed Lee better. How many Civil War movies exist? How many of them will be made in our lifetimes? No one knows how Lee spoke or his exact mannerisms. To me unless a portrayal of Lee is insulting, demeaning and crazily historically inaccurate, I’ll enjoy all the Lees (Grants, Longstreet, etc.) I see in movies or tv shows.
I strongly agree with you about Sheen's excellent portrayal of Lee. He is by far did the best job to humanize Lee, to turn him into a flawed flesh and blood person. And that is the very reason his portrayal has gotten so much criticism. Sheen's Lee shows an imperfect man....a sometimes manipulative man...a stubborn man....an over confident man....a humble man....etc..etc...
The point is that Sheen showed Lee as just a mere human and too many Lee lovers see him as a perfect marble infallible god...so they lash out against Sheen's portrayal.
I've actually never heard a bad comment about it personally.
The criticism I heard was sheen doesn’t know how to handle a horse very well.
While I agree that Sheen did a great job, winning the war was not why Lee was at Gettysburg. That is something that Lee hoped for during the entire war, but Lee's strategic objective in the campaign was to achieve enough of a success to lift the Union siege of Vicksburg.
This scene where General Robert E. Lee reveals his true feelings to General Longstreet about Commanding really hits me in the gut.
Hancock's show of respect is very telling. In the conflict with Mexico anti-Catholic prejudice led many Irish soldiers to desert forming the San Patricios fighting for the Mexicans.
And those that were caught by General Windfield Scott were all hanged facing the hill as the Army raised the flag over Chapaultapec Castle in Mexico City.
Irish volunteers were pelted with bricks and bottles as they marched out of Philadelphia during the War of the Rebellion. Small wonder our bishops told us not to enlist after the Emancipation Proclamation .
@Slimkilla Studios l have that movie also on DVD.Tom Beringer makes a point to have the script as historically correct as possible if he is cast in any film.
Again, that is a good movie.lt just didn't make any money at the box office.
@@chrishager3308 The San Patricios were traitors pure and simple. The Irish Brigade is part of Hancock's Corps, of course he's going to respect their traditions because he is a man.
@@chrishager3308 especially for the South in the civil war.
Gen.Lee was quite probably the finest General the U.S. ever had both past and present.But Gen.Lee had one great flaw as a commander,he was a gambler.Up until Gettysburg his gambles had paid off handsomely.He had come to believe that his men could accomplish anything he asked of them,the third day showed him differently.To paraphrase Shelby Foote,Gettysberg was the price the south had to pay for having General Robert.E Lee.
This is my favorite conversation of the movie. I think it does a great job of capturing that when you dissolve the politics and "the cause"..these guys are fighting against friends that they grew up and went to school with..have known for 20+ years of their lives..best men at each other's weddings, in-laws, cousins, brothers. Haunting.
Indeed. Longstreet longs for his colleagues to be his friends once more.
Lee's response has always chilled me though. Faced with a subordinate officer expressing feelings of regret to be fighting, on the eve of an attack Lee needs to be successful...
"Let us not think about that now. The issue is in God's hands. We can only do our duty..."
Ouch, reminding a soldier of duty..."...General, soldiering has one great trap: to be a good solider you must love the army. To be a good commander, you must be willing to order the death of the thing you love. We do not fear our own death you and I. But there comes a time..."
Sentimentality has its place, and that place is not on the battlefield if you want to be successful.
"...We are never quite prepared for so many to die. Oh, we do expect the occasional empty chair. A salute to fallen comrades. But this war goes on and on and the men die and the price gets ever higher. We are prepared to loose some of us, but we are never prepared to loose all of us..."
This sentimentality must be excluded, not only for ourselves and our own loss...but for our men and their loss. Because the longer the war goes on, the more men will be lost...the higher the cost will be.
"...And there is the great trap General. When you attack, you must hold nothing back. You must commit yourself totally. We are adrift here in a sea of blood and I want it to end. I want this to be the final battle."
And he brings it home. In this coming attack, don't hold back out of sentimentality. Make that attack violently, with full commitment. Don't spare casualties, because the goal of ending the war is worth the high cost in lives.
Coming from a little white haired gentlemen...but Lee was no Granny. He was a killer, and one of the best commander's the United States has ever produced.
"It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we would grow too fond of it."
Lee was a great tactician but a shit strategist.
But at Gettysburg he was a fool.
+dclark142002
Words of a true commander. Robert E. Lee was one hell of a man.
Think you have it reversed....Having walked the battlefield (and served in Vietnam with the Marines), only a tactical fool would have ordered the attacks on the 2nd & 3rd days,,,In fact, I would submit that the battle was lost on the 2nd day, with 2 divisions (Hood & McLaws) gutted along Little Round Top & Devil's Den - 50% casualties. All the attack on the 3rd day did was up the butcher's bill.
Alan Sabrosky The civil war can't be understood without knowing that every battle was truly against ourselves, and the strategy was aimed to end the war as quickly as possible from the beginning. Few expected it to escalate so badly and the south did not realize the sheer tenacity of Abrahams will for the union cause.
The best Civil War movie ever made
This is probably the best portrayal of Lee be any actor. Excellent job
The Sheen/Estevez clan are formidable actors no doubt.
This is one of the best damn movies I’ve ever seen. I had the two VHS version in HS and I watched it constantly. We watched excerpts in US History and I absolutely loved it. I’ve always been a student of this war, and discovered about a decade ago that I had great great great uncles who fought in the Army of Tennessee on the Union Side. My parents still have a black powder pistol one of them carried in the war.
I loved the dialogue between Lee and Stuart "there's no time for that there's no time for that"
"I want this to be the final battle." This is the reason for Pickett's charge. An attempt to end the war right then and there.
"This is the reason for Pickett's charge. An attempt to end the war right then and there." Lee's actions don't reflect that though considering he didn't surrender his Army until 2 years after Gettysburg. The best thing he could have done for the Confederate cause was disengage the battle before it started. The Union had the superior position (which Lee stupidly conceded to them, he could have occupied the highground before the union and forced them to attack him). The Union victory at Gettysburg breathed new life in Northern support for the war and secured Lincolns win of McClellan in the next election. Had the union again been deprived of a victory against Lee, McClellan may have one the election and signed a peace with the Confederates which is the platform he was running on. Instead he opted to be the Confederate Hannibal and suffered the same fate.
@@tsdobbi Most of what you're saying is true however the morale of the North was still low during the Wilderness Campaign of 1864 due to the lack of progress and massive loss of life. It was the fall of Atlanta that brought Northern morel high enough to reelect Lincoln.
@@randomtraveler9854 The defeat of Vicksburg was as important as Gettysburg.
@Pierre Delecto Meade didn't try to pursue after Gettysburg, despite having the better ground and having won on previous days. Lee disengaged after Gettysburg with weaker forces than he had before. You are wrong on all counts.
@Pierre Delecto You asserted that Lee couldn't have disengaged, yet Lee did so with fewer forces after a defeat. That passes for being wrong in my world.
Lee had such a pressure on his shoulders that he failed to see clearly the odds against him.The south was indeed one victory away form prevailing in the Civil war , like an underdog that has the match point against the favorite.. And this was the trap.. The pressure to finish the job led him to futile assaults against heavily defended positions in both second and third day .. That is to say he spent both Confederacy's match points.. However, we have to also to recognize him some mitigating factors : Lee , could not delay much the decisive battle as Union armies were continuing to receive reinforcements and equipment whereas Southern army (ANV) was nearly in the bring of starvation in a hostile terrain,..In addition to this, bringing the ANV between the Union armies in Washington and Gettysburg (as General Longstreet suggested) and literally cutting it off from its ways of retreat was also a very risky decision .Second it was the first time he had to give such a crucial battle without T.J.Jackson and unavoidably there were gaps of communication between him and the new Corps commanders (e.g the discretional style of command may have worked brilliantly with General Jackson but it was totally inappropriate for General Ewell. However, there was no way for Lee to know that in advance of the battle). Last but not least, in addition to the T.J.Jackson's death Lee had also to deal with the absence of Stuart that literally left him blind against the enemy. Therefore Lee came to give the most crucial battle of the Civil war without the two of his pillars (Jackson and Stuart) and with new and inexperienced Corps commanders ( Hill and Ewell may have been exceptional divisional commanders however leading a Corps is another story..). In any case no matter what the mitigating factors are, I think Lee's decision to attack head on was a military blunter . I am sure he was capable to come up with better ideas..It seems that heavy pressure clouded his judgement.
"In addition to this, bringing the ANV between the Union armies in Washington and Gettysburg (as General Longstreet suggested) and literally cutting it off from its ways of retreat was also a very risky decision" -- I wonder if Lee might have also considered that attacking or capturing Washington DC might have actually had the opposite of the intended effect; it might have prompted more Northerners to rally to the cause. It's important to remember that Lee was fighting for a specific political outcome. He needed to defeat a Northern army on Northern soil with the effect of demoralizing the Northern populace, not antagonizing them into a more aggressive stance. That's a very tricky strategic situation to be in.
@@57mab Why is that so? He tried to do this in Antietam and Gettysburg.. In the last case especially it is he who was pressing for the decisive battle. Really do you believe that the North could stand to go through another Chancellorsville? I don't thing so..
The southern soldiers were NOT close to starvation. They were not as well fed but they were leaner and meaner. The body has truly miraculous abilities to convert some foods not normally used in one way to alternate uses.
This leanness of the Confederate soldiers was a key.
The South had a number of ways to win the war. Stonewall Jackson was not listened to. There is a book on this. “How the South Could Have Won the War”.
Southern generals better. Grant and Sherman weren’t better generals. They just had a lot more men and materiel.
The Confederacy was never one victory away from prevailing in the Civil War. That's a post-war myth. In fact, the Confederacy was losing the war by mid-1863. They had done nothing more than to stalemate the Union forces in the east. Meanwhile they had lost every major battle that they fought in the west, and were on the verge of having the Confederacy cut in two along the Mississippi river.
Jackson was no cure-all for the Confederacy. Ewell made the correct decision not to assault Cemetery Hill based on the information which he had available at the time. Stuart's absence was almost entirely Lee's mistake. While Pickett's Charge proved to be a mistake, Lee had little alternative if he was to have any chance of accomplishing the primary objective of the campaign.
@@manilajohn0182 I will answer you with one question that i posed also above : Really do you believe that the North could stand to go through another Chancellorsville? The war it is only about material. It is also about willingness to go forward no matter the cost. The latter needs an inspiration .. One more crushing defeat like Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville would probably demoralized the North (army and citizens) beyond repair. It is the win in Gettysburg that gave both to the Northern High Command and Northern Soldier the boost to carry on the fight. Last by not least even we accept that Stuart's misperformance was not entirely his fault , this does not change the fact that Lee gave this battle without two of his pillars..
"War means fighting,. Fighting means killing" Nathan Bedford Forrest
Why are you quoting the guy who founded the KKK?
James George He was a very accomplished officer. A badass in every sense. The kkk certainly is a stain on his heroism in the war.
@@King_Stannis_Baratheon he also massacred surrendered union soldiers, most of whom were black
James George I believe all accounts do not confirm he gave that order, nonetheless a racist for sure. He was indeed a tactical genius no doubt.
"War is the continuation of politics by other means" Clausewitz. A soldier is not a killer, he works with others to achieve a goal. It is the butcher that is a killer.
Very moving scene where Gen Hancock and his staff pay respects to the Irish Brigade prior to the battle. The fife and drum only add more to the scene.
They weren't paying respect to the IB. It was a catholic mass; the Irish were preparing to take communion. Hancock was a Catholic.
It was a funeral to those who knew they wouldn't last the day.
@@indy_go_blue6048 Father Corby was giving them a general absolution for their venial sins.
@ScreechingBlueHairFeminist Complete and utter Dribble!
Listen to sky pilot!
The deity watched the horror below which was Gettysburg, and men later said all the results were God's will, a mystery. Strange to be told about the living god with all the blood spilt there and the heads, arms and legs ripped off creations of the creator.
I first saw this movie after visiting Gettysburg. It’s a very moving place
Regardless of what side he fought for, Robert E. Lee was a true gentleman, and an amazing military commander.
He was restricted by lack of men and supplies. And a bit of his own arrogance. I’m the long run. I don’t think the confederates could have won.
@@isaiahmiller3180 Yet he was one order that was misunderstood away from winning it. Had the attack been pressed and enemies routed off the higher ground, Lee would've marched all the way to DC and won the war within two weeks. But, "If Feasible" doomed him to defeat. Should've been "At All Costs, Take that ground!" Artillery would've never been emplacement and Calvary dismounted would've been destroyed in mass!!
And should be venerated.
@@thomascoker7703 : He might have won this battle, but the War would be eventually lost anyway. Vicksburg was lost the same day. That the North would win was an eventuality that would have only been postponed by a victory at Gettysburg.
@@isaiahmiller3180 He was also restricted by his thinking. Lee was ultimately an offensive-minded general. There was ultimately no way to defeat the Union. But by playing it defensively, saving his strength as much as possible. That way, he could have chipped away at the Northern will to continue to fight the war. He should have committed to an entirely defensive war. Instead, he launched both the Maryland and Gettysburg offensive campaigns, which achieved nothing of value and cost his forces between 40,000 and 60,000 men. Full defense should have been the order of the day.
I love how they went into enough detail to put Lee on a white horse.
For people that don't know, Lee's favorite horse was an all white horse which he named "Traveller" he rode many horses, but Traveller was his favorite.
In this movie he says it. "Major Taylor have Traveler saddled up I want to have a look around"
@@firingallcylinders2949 My Little Sorrell was always better!
Actually, Traveller was a grey horse. Just like in this movie.
All the extras were civil war reenactors who are notorious sticklers for detail and accuracy. They would have had a riot on their hands if the horse was a different color lol
Man I wish we could of gotten a sequel if it means getting more General Longstreet. Him and Chamberlain were the best parts of the movie and book.
we did, Gods and Generals.
@@xxwes997xx That was a prequel, and a different man playing Longstreet.
@@Droogie128 ya Tom Berenger did a way better job felt like the real Longstreet.
@@rc59191 Well, yeah. Gods and Generals was shit. Nothing but pro-confederate propaganda.
@@Droogie128 it's really unfortunate they didn't stick to the same formula they used when making Gettysburg. Focusing on the battle's instead of the politics had they done that we probably would of gotten The Last Full Measure by now.
A great lesson in leadership.
Not once did Lee call them "the enemy". He always referred to them as "those people".
Watch the clip where Longstreet tries to persuade Lee to redeploy their army. Lee refers to them as "the enemy" there.
@@snuffedtorch3683 In real life, he meant that General Lee never referred to the federal troops as the enemy in reality.
I have heard from a park ranger that Gettysburg was the first time when Lee called the Union the enemy.
@Jon West Sr well this dude ain't that but no worries. History is subjective in a lot of reports by different officers after the war. He might have been referring to an officers memoirs.
@Jon West Sr I believe you. You sound well versed in this subject. I can't help but to want to know more about such a great leader as General Lee. Have you read his daughter's book? Eleanor Agnes? A Day in the life of 1850's-about he growing up at Arlington and then West Point... Her poetry is really telling as well: "Beauty has died...for the sake of the war." She is a beautiful soul who taught those in the institution of slavery, which she explains in the book a bit, & suffered heavily after her younger sister, Annie, passed away. Robert's wife didn't long survive Eleanor's death. Thanks for telling me about your people. My folks were from Pennsylvania, North Carolina-I had one ancestor from Ohio who became a General under Sherman during Atlanta. He was at Shiloh as a Colonel. After Atlanta, he went back to Tennessee to help subdue the element of the Southern army there. William Grose. Check him out if you want. Thanks for the respectful reply-hard to find these days :)
@Beaviz81 It says a lot that JJ was a pall-bearer in Sherman's funeral. Supposedly out or respect JJ refused to don his hat even though it was a blistery wet and cold day. "If Sherman were in my place, he'd do the same." He died of pneumonia two weeks later or thereabouts. If true I think it is a telling illustration of the powers of reconciliation that mutual respect among former foes can foster.
Beautiful rendition of The Minstrel Boy. And the Catholic blessing at the end 🥺❤️🙏🏼
Robert E. Lee was a fascinating individual beyond comprehension. Noble and honorable figure.
I began reading about him and General Stonewall Jackson about two years ago. And can't stop reading about them!
As a matter of fact, General Lee is now a personal hero of mine. What Fascinating Characters in American History!
I suppose if you consider owning slaves as honorable. When the Confederate armies entered Pennsylvania, Lee personally ordered that all blacks (even freeborn) were to be rounded up and sent back to Virginia! Btw this was an order that Longstreet carried out happily. Both men actually inquired several times to make sure the order was being carried out! Honorable indeed!
@@crazyinq8617 you find it ok that he was a slave owner and fought to destroy the US in order to protect the repugnant institution of slavery?
@@haroldflashman4687 You're making the mistake of seeing slavery in the modern eyes. Lee personally hated slavery and Longstreet later lead men into battle against pro slave revolts. The mistake is that slaves are property in the eyes of their time and there for, the issue at hand is taking away "justified property away from men without payment" to them, it was against everything that stood for America. Were they wrong for defending slavery, yes but again, it's a mistake to just dismiss their point of view otherwise the Civil War becomes cloudy in unfair judgement in modern eyes. Both men are vindicated in US government eyes.
@@Seriona1 How could Lee personally hate slavery, when he in fact owned slaves? Heck he went to court to nullify his father-in-laws will which had specified that his (the FIL) slaves would be freed on a certain date following his death!
Your logic is that while slavery itself was morally wrong, it was not wrong of Lee and south to go to war to defend it, because their "property" was being taken away from them, without compensation! NIce way to defend racist, morally bankrupt beliefs.
Few would deny that the issues of the civil war would indeed be settled in blood. The human carnage however was at a scale of unimaginable horror.
The Industrial Revolution resulted in modern weapons for the time while using old age techniques. Lee was an old school general known for Napoleonic warfare.
@@randomtraveler9854 All the generals were "old school, known for Napoleonic warfare". Everyone was learning on the job, and many died before they could pass on the lessons they learned. By the end of the war, leaders like Sherman and Grant had a much better understanding of what was or was not possible with modern weapons, but they stood on the shoulders of those who came before.
@@mikem9001 Apparently they didnt..Grant at Cold Harbor and Sherman at Kennesaw Mountain...just sayin
@@drewdurbin4968 Apparently they did, i.e. "have a much better understanding of what was or was not possible with modern weapons". That doesn't mean they made no mistakes. Just sayin...
AGREEED THIS FILM IS INCREDIBLE!!!
Robert E Lee is, in my opinion, one of the greatest human beings to ever live. The sheer amount of honor he displayed in all areas of his life is truly astounding.
Amen compadre
JACCO20082012 didn’t he have slaves? 🤔
JACCO20082012 you are so smart other people would realize that if they would the written testimony about what other people said about him when you think of character Robert E Lee's name should be by that word in the dictionary
manweller1 He inherited them through his family, and he freed them personally, and even after being given their freedom they asked to remain on the property and work, which Lee paid them a fair wage for, because they saw Lee as Family, not slaver.
@@manweller1 who cares?
"I half expected ol' George Meade to be gone, and this war would go on and on..."
Good that the film has Longstreet mentioning Ulysses S Grant (who at the time was in Mississippi laying siege to Vicksburg which was one of the reasons that Lee moved North) as they were good friends and he was Grants wifes Cousin
He was the Best Man at Grant's Wedding.
*1:03* This is really sad. Former friends fighting each other. Perhaps things could have been done differently. Been done peacefully. But all we can do now is learn from the prices those men paid on that field.
"If we do not settle our differences, then we too will be destroyed." -Coach Boone.
As an alumni of the Old Guard, Military College of the University of Alabama, son of Charleston, SC; Duty, Honor, Respect. Roll Tide!
This scene is one of the two heart scenes of this movie. The other is the Killer Angel scene.
My favorite scene in this movie...Very moving and powerful.
I watched this movie in history class 15 years ago and it never gets old. There are so many great speeches in this film.
As a Floridian, whose father is from Richmond, and mother is from long island, I had family fight on both sides. One 3x grandfather served for the 58th north Carolina, one served in the 10th New York. They both survived the war, which is I am here. I also married a Yankee from long island, and our children will be refered to as Americans. This is one country, no matter how much they try to divide us
This was my pep talk before the CMA exam.
"I want it to end. I want this to be the final battle" such a dangerous bet, he should have known better. Not just for victory but for the lives it went on to cost in the following years. The sea of blood became an ocean
Great, though CHILLING words.
Just a bit of trivia, it was a typical July day in Pennsylvania during the battle - mid to high 80s during the afternoon. I couldn't imagine wearing a thick uniform and gloves like Longstreet. It must have been miserable.
Never watched a better movie
Lee was honestly nearing the end of his life in a sense on the last decade. I think he was a bit cocky and his core commanders pretty much didn’t want to go on the offensive. Despite Lee saying he wants it to end, he would stack another 50k bodies entrenching in Petersburg and Richmond. Despite the wounded wagon lines being miles long on both sides it blows my mind no one actually tried to diplomatically end the war, actually.
There were diplomatic measures and peace talks going on the entire war, but both sides wanted what the other was unwilling to give up without a fight.
I think Longstreet here started to realize Lee may be on the cusp of doing something crazy, hopeless, self destructive, as 48 hours later he indeed did.
Don't forget this is a movie and most of the dialog and meetings we see are not from anyone's memoir. Longstreet DID say years later that an attack on the Union center was likely to fail which it did.
Love the theme they play at the beginning. It is the theme for Chief O’Brien on Star Trek TNG and DS9.
It's an Irish patriotic song called the "Minstrel Boy", It is still an anthem played by the armies of the United States and United Kingdom.
Truly a fantastic scene
Nice turn by Sheen as Lee. He plays Lee with both strength and vulnerability showing the exhaustion that plagued him from a heart condition that would kill him five years after the war. Although Robert Duvall in "Gods and Generals" does look more like Lee psychically.
Duvall is on the Lee family tree.
Texas brigade Robert's favorite. YEE YEE!
No matter where your allegiances lie, this is one of the greatest scenes of any war movie, IMO. The lines that are spoken get to the core (and futility) of that war or any war.
Loved this movie, a fantastic show.
God bless you Robert E. Lee!!!
fucking thank you somebody posted the minstrel boy scene 5-5 stars for that alone
Wonderful cast performances.
God, how I love the gettysburg battlefield! I pray to go at least one more time before I moulder.
I wish they had told the whole story of Lee in this movie. He was a sick man; running high fever's. I think the reason he was so stubbornly bent on the Attack was he was over-compensating for his illness. Trying to show strength.
Had Jackson lived, Lee might have listened better. He always gave heed to Jackson's words.
Had he listened to Longstreet, checked the Federal Army at Gettysburg, then "slide around to the right" as Longstreet suggested, it would have been a different battle.
OR---
Had both Lee & Longstreet allowed Hood to launch his attack as he wished; around the southern end of the round tops, with Mcclaws attacking the peach orchard at the same time...
The greatest tragedy is that hotheads on both side's let it come to war. Slavery was already dying out in the South, just as it had in the Northern State's. By 1880, it would've been gone. Even Jefferson Davis believed it would be so. Over 660,000 died, & millions more were maimed for life. It never should have happened.
@s mc-I felt the same way growing up and reading the history book. I could not understand why reasonable men could not talk and debate the issues and avoid it getting to this point. Now as a 50 something male, I see what is happening in politics today. Demonizing the opposing view with no desire to debate or discuss, just condemn for them disagreeing. It makes me sad for the future, for I fear history is going to repeat itself.
As far as the comments, the entire war could have played out totally different with a few things altered. It was a war of attrition and a couple of acts of dumb luck and timing changed several battles. The protesters of today need to see this and OF Gods and Generals and maybe they would get a little insight on what all was at stake. It is way too easy to just say slaves and disregard all the other factors on both sides.
Slavery was not dying out. As the slave population became lighter and lighter, the slavers were taking rights away from freedmen. Before 1835, freedmen in North Carolina could vote, that was ended with a new constitution. The horrific Dredd Scott decision took away even the right to request court intervention.
@Pierre Delecto It was about NOT freeing slaves for the people who started the war, the Slave Power Politicians. It was about the Union for the people who won the war. The southern soldiers fighting upon the order of the insurrection were mostly not slave owners, and were kept in a state of degradation by the slave power that they were conscripted to support, even before the war and the start of the insurrection. The good news: The southern men provided 40 regiments to fight for the Union against the Slave Power insurrection.
@Pierre Delecto It was the southern slave power that forced the war, and that enabled ending slavery. Perhaps the price could be no other.
The South would have probably continued its slave system for a long time, because it would have meant free labor in it's future industrial factories, which would have given it an edge over the Northern states in industrial growth, investment, expansion into the western half of the country, etc.
@Beaviz81 Could be four...did it from memory. The point being that two bitter enemies can still respect each other after the shooting is over. Like in WW2 when USAAF ace Chuck Yeager and Luftwaffe Ace Gunther Rall became dear friends and did lectures together, etc.
Oh, also, thanks for posting this, well done.
1:33 "I couldn't fight against Georgia and South Carolina, not against my own family"
Sums up why southerners fought.
It certainly sums up why some fought. Longstreet and his Georgia and South Carolina, Lee and his beloved Virginia.
I’m just curious how none of them passed out to the heat. Those wool uniforms covered head to toe in Pennsylvania humid hot July. I salute them all.
great man salut from serbia
Never forget that no matter how honorable and chivalrous these leaders are, they were fighting to preserve the institution of slavery. That is literal indisputable fact.
I'm willing to entertain the perspective they fought less for that, but because the leaders higher up decided to secede and they were faced with the idea of having to attack the places they lived and loved. The ideal of slavery might not have been in the forefront of their minds, it was more about "this is our home". Pride and connections to what states they were from instead of the greater whole. That's how it was squared away in their heads, and how they viewed it. It "wasn't about slavery", while at the same time they weren't willing to examine their own culture too closely.
Or to put it more succinctly: "My country, right or wrong." A sentiment still in play today. This inflexible conviction is almost certainly the ruin of otherwise good people. People who might be able to change their minds if they were willing to drop their guard over being told "this is wrong" and just listen.
(... but yeah, slavery had to go. It was only holding them back at this point.)
@@kereminde In the prelude to the war, when it became a nigh certainty, Lee wrote letters in which he said that the South would do better to free every slave than risk a war with the North. I think that was more because he didn't believe the South could defeat the North, certainly not in a protracted conflict. But he fought for Virginia regardless because it was his home. And I don't think he had animosity towards blacks, but he did think they were uncivilized and uneducated. That's why after the war he sought an increase in funding for everyone, specifically including former slaves.
The Tune they were playing their at the start of the video was called the Minstrel Boy. I remember learning it a primary school
I love this song it is called the minstrel boy and I play it on the tenor drum as a member of the Atlantic watch pipes and drums
There was always a higher duty to Virginia
Technically he fought against Virginia, West Virginia
Pete longstreet isnt from virginia though lol
@@JoefromNJ1 I agree but at that time people were more loyal to their state but the civil war changed all that
@@JoefromNJ1 lee isnt omly a traitor but a massive hyopcrite
Scott Aznavourian and you are a terrible speller
I know Duvall looked more like Lee but Sheen nailed the portrayal of his character so perfectly, Duvall (due to the script) portrayed him far too mild mannered, he didn’t get across any of the conflict in Lee’s mindset or the inner turmoil. Sheen will always be my Lee
😢 makes mse tear up every time,
Well, it's overstated but "dead wrong" is also overstated. He was a great soldier, even way back in the Mexican War. And he inspired the greatest confidence in his men and officers which made him a great leader. But the point about strategy has merit. He never seemed to grasp what it would take to actually win the war and fought "winning" battles that cost the Confederacy more than they could afford. He often seems to have acted more out of aristocratic pride than clear strategic thinking.
and he was Lincoln's choice, you monument of deep thinking.
So were McDowell, and McClellan, and Pope, and Burnside, and Hooker, and Meade, and so on and so forth. Much is made of Lee's talents as a general. Without a doubt, he was a great inspiration to his men, truly fantastic at getting more fighting efficiency and tenacity out of less-equipped, less-prepared, ultimately less healthy troops than any other leader in the war.
However, I think it's a valid criticism to point out that Lee was potentially too eager to seek tactical victories without considering strategic ramifications. He beat the hell out of tactically inferior Federal generals, but was perhaps too willing to spend lives to do so. He led an invasion of the north, which was a very bloody exercise that failed to have any significant strategic benefit, and then led another invasion of the north, which turned into a disaster. He was willing (perhaps excessively so) to take risks within the framework of the conventional rules of war, but found it difficult to get beyond the bounds of those conventions. He never did figure out that any degree of complication in battle plans led to exponentially increasing risk of collapse.
In a Napoleonic fight, Lee may indeed have been one of the very finest generals to have ever lived. However, Lee's war was not best fought as a Napoleonic fight. It was more a proto-industrial asymmetric fight, and Grant far better understood the proto-industrial part of it. As for the asymmetric part of it, if you're the conventionally weaker power, a far better choice for leadership would be the Vietnamese leadership of the 1950s-1970s, or Afghan mujahideen who triumphed against the Soviets and gave fits to the Americans from the 1980s through today.
I don't know if a more intelligently fought insurgency could have carried the day, but it seems Lee was just not prepared to expand his thinking in that direction, and ultimately, I think that reduced the Rebels' chances of ultimately winning independence.
@@don_5283 That was the whole logic behind Sherman's March to the Sea. Rather than destroy the rebel army, he destroyed everything BEHIND the rebel army. No crops, no railroads, no factories, the rebel army starves.
The South doesn't win a drawn out conflict. They lacked in practically every category compared to the North, often dramatically. Really their only hope was a series of decisive conflicts that would force the North to the bargaining table.
The south never had a chance without foreign intervention.
They knew it from the start as well.
This is a great movie.
The wilderness campaign was still to follow. The morbidity of the wilderness campaign was unparalleled.
Robert e lee my all time favorite commanding general along with his other officers and generals my favorite battles are both Chancellorsville and gettysburg
That’s like saying Napoleon is my favorite general, my favorite battles are Austerlitz and Waterloo. You must really hate Lee.
@@cpmenninga my former best friend hates lee not me
@@cpmenninga Why flame people for their opinion? That was rude.
Deo Vindice!
That was the trap McClellan fell into. He loved his army and men so much that he could not order the death of that which he loved.
Some powerful words in the movie
_-Gods and Generals- is the prequel of -Gettysburg-
Thank you
Son Jeff is about half the writer his father was.
omg😍😍 what a beard👑❤❤❤
andriyko - omg. What a *fake* beard.
We are adrift in a sea of blood- here we are again.
@hartshornguy Well you're welcome. But what's so important in that specific scene?
All could never imagine fighting against the men I went to war and served with, certainly not for slavery.
My family had.
I had family members fighting against each other not only militarily but politically as well and seven of my family fought against each other at Gettysburg.
Four of those were depicted in the movie Gettysburg and I live not too far from Gettysburg but was born in the suburbs of Philadelphia but my family who fought for the Union were originally from the South.
Lee was offered overall command of the Union Army in the beginning of the war. He didn't want to leave the Union. But Virginia went with the South he was duty bound to follow. Look at the haunted expressions in the eyes of Lee and Grant. They saw too much death. Foreign interests played each against the other here: certain powers did not like that America won it's independence....even now.
20th century man Virginia rejected secession in their first vote. They voted a second time after Lincoln called for 75,000 volunteers to march south.
During and after the US Civil War, many Northerners condemned the Southerners for going with their states after Lincoln called up 75,000 troops to invade the South and end secession. Wonder what they would have done had a Southern president (and there were many before Lincoln) called up troops to invade the North and end the appalling working conditions in Northern factories and mines - the conditions that later gave rise to the labor union movement?
That would be an interesting outcome Alan but the CSA battle plan was to always simply leave and stall the US and hopefully the US would just give up, which is why Davis wasn't happy when Lee invaded the US. The CSA greatest defeat was rejecting France and UK offer of help in exchange for invading the US, if they did it. I personally believe the US would of had to let the CSA go, no way could they fight CSA and France in the South and UK from Canada.
Sorry, Caesar, I wasn't clear - I did not intend that as a strategy for the CSA during the war. I just meant that if a president of the US (probably from the South) had decided to call up troops to march into (e.g.) the PA mining fields, a lot of pro-Union officers from PA likely would have opted out...Hell, Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson had always been strongly pro-Union until Lincoln called up troops to invade the South.
As for the UK & France, a mixed bag, I think. At sea, their navies would certainly have broken the blockade of the Southern ports and blockaded in turn Northern ports (plus ravaging Northern merchant shipping). Not so sure it would have mattered much on the ground. France had its hands more than full in Mexico, and once when a crisis with the US prompted the British to threaten to send 10,000 troops to Canada, someone reminded them that the US at that time had about 500,000 men under arms and could easily raise a few hundred thousand more to remove Canada from the British Empire....
It's hard to try and imagine how much difference France and UK would of made however I can see it actually pinning the US down, maybe not enough to destroy us but definitely enough to break us and get us to stop. I can imagine the UK and French Navies blockading us and then start buying Confederate goods and just break us economically. I am not sure if US would invade Canada, we tried twice and both times didn't go so well.
Martin Sheen's greatest role! If that's how Lee was, he never came off as a savage or warmonger.
This explains the defeat - Lee got up from and found himself a foot shorter and that his horse has dramatically shrunk as well. He was traumatized and not in his right mind.
Tom Berringer's best work.
He was good in the The Dog Soldiers .
Honor tradition glory, all meaningless if you are dead.
Money money money, all meaningless if you have died. "Ett vet jag dock som inte dör, domen över död man".
No, it only becomes real in death.
That crap is meaningless when you’re alive. I guess unless you want the killing to start again.
Love the blessing scene.
How prophetic a statement.
robert duvall should have played lee like in god and generals
I disagree Sheen is graceful and more gentlemanly than Duvall. Plus I think Sheen looks more like Lee than Duvall
Thats you opinion
I liked them both, but I think sheen did a better job with his elegant voice.
If we could have had Sheen's looks with Duval's steel voice...that would have been awesome.
They were both great i think
A movie with historically accurate beards.
Every American should visit Gettysburg at least once, because the sense of history there is palpable.
How these great men are now vilified, by people who aren’t even worthy to shine their shoes, is amazing to me. They haven’t been romanticized in this movie. Their heroism, their willingness to face death in fair battle is manifest and confirmed by history. I, a black descendent of slaves, salute these honorable men, of both union and rebellion.
The history of this conflict has been drastically altered to villainize one side and glorify the other, and to push an agenda. I dont judge people by their skin tone and give my respect to anyone who has the basic knowledge to pay respect to all those brave men or shall I say soldiers that fought courageously for their states and for their families. Reality was a majority of soldiers both Union and Confederate didn't even give a damn about the slaves, people in the North saw them as inferior just as much as anyone in South did, possibly even worse than people in the South actually.
@@Jarred-J254 Which side fought to maintain slavery, and which side passed the 13th Amendment?
@@Ares99999 Associating the soldiers with those of the Confederate government is the first sign of ignorance, not a matter of which side done what politically as it would have ended regardless as it was inevitably a dying system with the changes in economy. How about look at the fact neither side politically really gave a damn about the slavery or black people, there is tons of documentation of northern politicians and Union soldiers showing nothing but distain for black people. Lincoln himself admitted that the slavery was not his main concern, the main goal was to stop the southern states from leaving the Union which lead to an unconstitutional invasion. The matters of ending slavery was to keep the Europeans from siding with the Confederacy. It does not matter about the politics, what matters is the courage and valor of the common soldier, the men that served in the Confederate armed forces earned their spot in history as brave and honorable men, as did those that fought for the Union. Just like the German soldiers that served bravely in WW2 for their homeland, and the Soviets that also fought gallantly for theirs. Soldiers no matter what side they fought on deserve to be honored and remembered for their courage whether or not you agree with them, and us in the south will honor all soldiers of different generations for their courage and service.
That scene explains the entire movie. It probably (almost certainly) never happened, but Lee’s motives for waging the battle there and his desperate decision to launch a charge that was only going to end in disaster are made clear.
"There was always a higher duty to Virginia."
The outcome of the Civil War marked the start of Big Government.
If that is true, it's a pity the founders couldn't give us a Republic free of slavery and stop this mess before it began. The ghost of slavery still haunts this country, it plays a part in the welfare state among other things. I blame the south.
+YorktownUSA The slave ships were from Rhode Island.
Rhode Island outlawed slavery in 1784.
frellthat You mean Rhode Island and Plymouth Plantation
frellthat doesn't mean they didn't profit from it
@Beaviz81 Same can be said for Grant. Grant I think was the most brillian general of the war in that he got that this was a new era and modern war was upon us. He knew exactly how to beat Lee and did so within 11 months of taking the field against him. The Johnston v. Sherman battles before Atlanta were great theatre, like two equally matched and skilled proze fighters dancing around each other unable to land a killing blow. Johnston was wonderful...as was Sherman.
@pvtvice In his book "Gettysburg" Stephen Sears explicitly offers that Henry Heth heard that there may have been upwards of 8,000 pair of shoes in Gettysburg (there are shoes in my town too, doesn't mean they were made there) and that he was anxious to commandere them, hence his 8-mile expedition from Cashtown. He even asked A.P. Hill on the night of June 30, after Pettirgrew reported yankee troops there if he could go back to Gettysburg in the am and get those shoes. Just saying.